Namely FAIR https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers
I understand some people have problems with their data collection and I am open to other sources but still at the end of the day it's an enormous number whether they are off by a few billion or not. Of course the counter-argument is that they are still a net gain for the country but I am not convinced by the data I have seen. Do you have reliable sources I could look at?
The number of illegal apprehensions at our Southern Border have indeed been falling with something like 330,000 last year. But let's keep this in context. First of all, that is the number they caught and this number doesn't represent how many were successful in entering. Secondly, that is a lot of people even for a country of our size. Stop and think about that for second and how many resources 300,000 people need, especially third-world citizens. This happens year after year after year.
Your point on Visa over-stayers is noted. For some reason this issue is juxtaposed with the southern border as if we can't enforce both violations. Why can't we crack-down on both?
The fact that we have a million less illegal immigrants than before is good. Let's shut the door on future illegal entries and provide a path for citizenship for the ones that got here. But you have to stop the flood first or it would be pointless.
Lastly, by illegally entering this country or any other, it is extremely unfair to the people that stood in line and played by the rules. I don't know why that doesn't get talked about more often. If immigration laws aren't enforced and lawful candidates are punished, then the incentive is to become a lawbreaker. This should be avoided.
It's a question of fairness.
Ok, first off I think you've misunderstood what apprehensions actually means; that's not 330,000 people caught as a single person can (and often does) cross multiple times. It's also not a given that apprehensions are all people trying to avoid capture - many who cross willingly and intentionally surrender to border patrol. As for the magnitude, in a country of 330MM that's less than 1/10th of 1%. Also, despite your allegation it *is* representative of how many are successfully entering, as the population of illegal immigrants has been slowly falling.
An even broader point is that many of our own border laws and enforcement are feeding back into the immigration problem. The biggest reason why people overstay their visas is that we've made it cumbersome and difficult to renew, and we've repeatedly blocked paths towards citizenship. Its no wonder that - when faced with a choice of leaving and being uncertain if they can return - many choose not to leave in the first place. Those are details that have broad bipartisan support for updating, but this current 'hard-line' stance makes any solutions impossible. In that I agree with you. However, there's absolutely no evidence that there is a "flood" of illegals that "must be stopped" or bad things will happen. That simply doesn't compute. We've had far, far greater immigration in the past with much less scrutiny and our country is prosperous because of it (not in spite of this).
To bring this back to our current immigration policies - the argument that it's 'unfair' to people who 'stood in line' is also inherently flawed. Currently we are turning away tens of thousands who can and should be able to claim refugee status. The current administration has vowed to refuse to process immigrant claims even though our own laws say that it does not matter whether that person crossed at a recognized port of entry (see above about apprehensions). And for many years we've been deporting people for minor infractions, again against our own laws and guidelines. If we streamlined the immigration process and allowed more qualfied people to enter we'd have far fewer trying to enter the country illegally or overstay their visas.
Statements about floods of immigrants entering our country causing us severe economic and social harm have no historical perspective and are completely divorced from reality.
Mostly fair points and yes I am generalizing to some extent, but you are still ignoring that an external problem is costing this country 100 billion a year. That's the crux in a nutshell. Also, currently we take in more immigrants than any other country already as a whole. The argument that we are not a generous nation to the less-advantaged holds no weight and no proof exists that they are an overall net gain. We are a welfare nation and people are taking advantage of that generosity. I don't blame illegal immigrants for their actions, but I also have no apology for wanting a say in determining the number of people allowed and through which channels. I would grant that wish to any other country btw and to be honest that used to be a given assumption.
But not in todays climate:
I entered this thread in the hopes of explaining why a person would vote for Donald Trump, why I hold conservative values, and why it is harmful to demonize people that don't think like you. Many times there are valid reasons why someone would disagree with your position. I was willing to try to explain that difference but not any more.
The level of intolerance and hate most of the people on this thread has shown me is eye-opening. This particular thread exists solely for people to hate on Trump. It is looking for no solutions, compromise, or understanding. It is an echo chamber where the price of admission is total acquiescence to the party line: Trump is bad and can do no good. And anyone that supports him or voted for him is racist and evil. That's it, and the reason I suspect a core group of you dominate every conversation.
When normal people encounter this level of intolerance, (I bet you guys are a hoot at social events btw), they fucking run and double-down to make sure none of you will ever hold a position of power. It would terrify me to see some of you run a school play, much less hold any real power. That's one of the reasons Trump won btw, and will win re-election should the Dems run a "progressive" candidate or Hillary for that matter. If that occurs, then your wailing and gnashing of teeth will continue until 2024. Yay for you, but behavior such as displayed towards me will have been responsible, please don't forget that.
Alright folks, you've burned this witch, go celebrate your hollow victory.