The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: iris lily on February 14, 2017, 04:13:29 PM
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SNL's made a Fatal Attraction parody skit that skewered Conway. Was that sexist? Was it sexist to the point of being inappropriate? Was it sexist but ok? Did it victimize women by showing violence toward women? Note that I didnt ask if you all found it funny because humor is subjective.
A New York Times reporter called Melania Trump "a hooker."
Was that sexist? Was is sexist to the point of because ng inappropriate? Did it victimize Melania and all women? a smaller group of pretty women who speak English with an accent?
Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right? Should any action take place other than discussion on websites like this?
I'll give my opinion after I hear yours.
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SNL's made a Fatal Attraction parody skit that skewered Conway. Was that sexist? Was it sexist to the point of being inappropriate? Was it sexist but ok? Did it victimize women by showing violence toward women? Note that I didnt ask if you all found it funny because humor is subjective.
A New York Times reporter called Melania Trump "a hooker."
Was that sexist? Was is sexist to the point of because ng inappropriate? Did it victimize Melania and all women? a smaller group of pretty women who speak English with an accent?
Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right? Should any action take place other than discussion on websites like this?
I'll give my opinion after I hear yours.
I mean your opinion is pretty obvious.
I would say maybe, bordering on probably to the first (although either way, I didn't think it was a particularly good skit). Certainly to the second (although you left out the context that he did not do this in print, which doesn't make it OK but is definitely relevant for your next point). Maybe to the third, though "frenzy" seems overstated. It certainly happens (demonstrably), but so far nowhere near at the level of inappropriateness or scope we saw with Michelle Obama, HRC, etc. Of course, this administration is still quite young and sexism definitely reaches across the party line and is never OK.
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Personally, I found the Fatal Attraction parody more dark and creepy than overtly sexist. Perhaps because it was referring specifically to a movie (though the movie itself, one could point out, was quite sexist, so...). Yeah, sexist-ish.
I think that in general, calling Melania anything at all seeks to shame her for being a model is complete fucking bullshit and sexist, yes. Though I will say that pointing out the hypocrisy of the right freaking out about Michelle Obama baring her arms vs. Melania's posing for nude photo shoots is completely reasonable. But Melania's modeling choices are her own, and I don't see any point to calling attention to them as some sort of condemnation of her per se. (And yes, calling her a hooker is sexist, not even a question that calling someone a hooker is sexist unless they actually were a hooker).
I'm not comfortable with sexism on either side. But of course, it's much easier for someone to point out the sexism that happens on the other end of the spectrum from where they sit (for example, if you're on the right, pointing out the sexism of calling Melania a hooker), than it is to acknowledge the sexism on their own end (the absolute over the top sexism directed toward Hillary by many on the right during her presidential run).
So:
"Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right?"
FTFY.
And yes.
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It's all sexist. I'm not sure what you mean by "sexist but ok". If you took out the racist jokes/stereotypes and the sexist jokes/stereotypes from comedy you'd have nothing left.
I don't think anything is inappropriate fodder for comedy. So, I'm going to go with sexist but ok.
As for calling Melania Trump a hooker, yes it's sexist (unless that reporter has info we don't). It don't think it victimized Melania or "all women". Can you even victimize all women? How would you do that? I'm sure no matter what someone says or does some women on earth won't be victimized by it.
No frenzy of sexist stuff towards influential women on the right, I agree with Kris that if you're a woman leader in anything you're having the poop thrown at you.
I can't think of any action that should be taken in the above two cases. Political figures can be viciously parodied and rightfully so. See the 8-0 Supreme Court ruling:
Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell, 485 U.S. 46 (1988), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that the First and Fourteenth Amendments prohibit public figures from recovering damages for the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress (IIED), if the emotional distress was caused by a caricature, parody, or satire of the public figure that a reasonable person would not have interpreted as factual.
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SNL's made a Fatal Attraction parody skit that skewered Conway. Was that sexist? Was it sexist to the point of being inappropriate? Was it sexist but ok? Did it victimize women by showing violence toward women? Note that I didnt ask if you all found it funny because humor is subjective.
A New York Times reporter called Melania Trump "a hooker."
Was that sexist? Was is sexist to the point of because ng inappropriate? Did it victimize Melania and all women? a smaller group of pretty women who speak English with an accent?
Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right? Should any action take place other than discussion on websites like this?
I'll give my opinion after I hear yours.
I mean your opinion is pretty obvious.
Really? What is that opinion then?
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The NYT reporter did refer to Mrs. Trump as a hooker in what he thought was a private conversation. From what I can tell, it wasn't printed in the newspaper. A number of other less lofty publications have floated the question around about her past. She does appear to have a fairly casual relationship with conventional morality, for example becoming involved with her husband while he was married to one of his other wives. The nude pictures floating all over the internet probably don't portray much of a typical family values type of image, but should she be slut shamed? The GOP would have a field day (and has) if the tables were turned.
Remember Barney Frank being called "Barney Fag" by the right (unacceptable), and then was outed for having sex with a prostitute, who then ran a prostitution ring out of Frank's Washington home? Illegal, and he was called on it.
As for the Kelly Ann Conway "Fatal Attraction" skit, it didn't seem all that funny to me, but I don't really see where it was sexist. And come on, SNL is not exactly the place you'd go if you want sensitive portrayals of those in powerful positions. But they are likely tougher on the right than the left. I've found the Alec Baldwin impersonations hilarious yet chilling in how accurate they seem to be.
Serious question: do you think Democrats have a better sense of humor than Republicans?
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Really? What is that opinion then?
I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth. Just meant your wording telegraphs your political leanings and implies your general line of thought, though not necessarily your exact answers to all of these questions.
To expand on my comments regarding SNL and answer your other questions, while borderline sexist, I do agree that the nature of it (mirroring specific source material), makes it "OK," especially since it is also commenting on a public figure, which has the implications dividendman noted. Still not particularly entertaining but there's no accounting for taste. I don't see how it could be called "victimizing women" though.
Also, totally agree with Kris' fix/answer, re: "Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right?" (yes).
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Really? What is that opinion then?
I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth. Just meant your wording telegraphs your political leanings and implies your general line of thought, though not necessarily your exact answers to all of these questions.
To expand on my comments regarding SNL and answer your other questions, while borderline sexist, I do agree that the nature of it (mirroring specific source material), makes it "OK," especially since it is also commenting on a public figure, which has the implications dividendman noted. Still not particularly entertaining but there's no accounting for taste. I don't see how it could be called "victimizing women" though.
Also, totally agree with Kris' fix/answer, re: "Is there a frenzy of sexist poop throwing at influential female figures on the right?" (yes).
Actually, my wording about Conway's Fatal Attraction skit was taken from someone else on another chat board, someone NOT a Trump supporter. She seemed very offended by it, I was not.
I posted this question because I was gobsmacked to think someone would take big issue with the SNL Conway skit, to the point of calling it violence against women. I wondered if we had even seen the same video. I wondered if I was way off by failing to be offended by the skit.
As for the NYT reporter's comment about Melania Trump, it was a rude, mean, and tacky throwaway in a private conversation. The reporter apologized, let's all move on. It would be a nicer world if members of the President's family were not maligned for things they dont do.
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Actually, my wording about Conway's Fatal Attraction skit was taken from someone else on another chat board, someone NOT a Trump supporter. She seemed very offended by it, I was not.
I posted this question because I was gobsmacked to think someone would take big issue with the SNL Conway skit, to the point of calling it violence against women. I wondered if we had even seen the same video. I wondered if I was way off by failing to be offended by the skit.
As for the NYT reporter's comment about Melania Trump, it was a rude, mean, and tacky throwaway in a private conversation. The reporter apologized, let's all move on. It would be a nicer world if members of the President's family were not maligned for things they dont do.
I didn't mean your wording of the question about the SNL skit, more omitting the fact that the NYT reporter comment was not in print and including the words "on the right?" when asking about attacks on women in power. ETA - but in retrospect it seems you were trying to be a bit inflammatory for the sake of sparking conversation? Fair enough if so.
But anyway, it doesn't really matter, that was a throwaway comment on my part. I do think the above is an interesting example of the left (I presume this other woman you mention leans that way?) excoriating itself over questions of political correctness, which is a habit I find annoying in many instances. This one I would say (again) is borderline. Was I offended? No. Would I dismiss the feelings of someone else for taking offense? No, as long as they didn't start calling for fines or resignations or something similarly over the top.
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The KellyAnne thing didn't seem sexist to me. It just seemed like satire. KellyAnne comes across as odd and hungry for coverage - and they parodied that.
Focusing on Melania's modeling career is sexist. Even implying that she has loose morals because she posed nude or partially nude is sexist. I'm not sure there's even any proof she had an affair with Trump while he was still married. They met while he was separated, and they weren't publicly involved until after his divorce I think (not that I'm an expert... but, that's what I gather). I think the idea that she's a scandalous lady is probably rooted in sexism.
But I guess it's hard for me to get too offended. Think about SNL's portrayal of Putin - he's always shirtless. It's not like he's actually always shirtless in real life. Maybe just sometimes. If SNL portrayed Melania as always topless or in a negligee I think that would be shockingly sexist. But Putin? Kinda funny?
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How is implying that someone has loose morals for posing nude sexist??? If a guy posed with his dick hanging out for a magazine some could make the same supposition about their morals. We all know that women are more often pressured to pose nude, but that is besides the point.
The funny thing of course is public displays of nudity are generally only frowned upon by the Christian Right. It is completely subjective but not sexist to comment that someone has lesser morals for partaking in an action such as posing nude.
I agree that if any first lady of a Democratic president had posed nude the Republicans likely wouldn't let it go.
Accusing someone of being a sex worker without evidence and printing that is definitely grounds for some form of defamation lawsuit. If that is how that came out. That comment being made depending on the evidence that triggered it is probably a bit sexist.
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SNL portrayed Sean Spicer as a raging idiot. Was that sexist? Was his character being played by a woman sexist?
Am I overreaching what should just be seen as a comedy sketch?
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The Conway skit was funny satire (not as funny as other skits). She loves being in the media and all the attention. SNL just played to that.
Calling someone a slut/hooker whatever is never ok.
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SNL's made a Fatal Attraction parody skit that skewered Conway. Was that sexist? Was it sexist to the point of being inappropriate? Was it sexist but ok? Did it victimize women by showing violence toward women? Note that I didnt ask if you all found it funny because humor is subjective.
A New York Times reporter called Melania Trump "a hooker."
First one, nah. They also portrayed Hillary as pathologically ambitious for years. I think the skit was less about her being crazy or more to illustrate the unhealthy co-dependant relationship the Trump administration has with the media.
The second one, without knowing any other details, is way off base. Not cool.
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Focusing on Melania's modeling career is sexist. Even implying that she has loose morals because she posed nude or partially nude is sexist. I'm not sure there's even any proof she had an affair with Trump while he was still married. They met while he was separated, and they weren't publicly involved until after his divorce I think (not that I'm an expert... but, that's what I gather). I think the idea that she's a scandalous lady is probably rooted in sexism.
Right? How is implying a woman has loose morals because of a modeling career of any sort not sexist? It's completely inappropriate, and it was right to call the reporter out on it. Attitudes like his need to change, and public shaming is a good place to start.
Of course the idea of a scandalous lady is rooted in sexism. Arguing that a female who doesn't conform to a narrow conservative view of behavior is a tramp or a 'hooker' is disgusting. I can just hear the cries of 'tu quogue' ringing out though.