Author Topic: Sexist things that drive me crazy  (Read 79117 times)

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2015, 07:42:31 AM »
LOL at the spawn camping comments.  Today I learned some gamers sit around waiting for another gamer to spawn and then they kill them instantly for punishment.  It's like the 1800's roundin' up the posse to carry out some vigilante justice, but in the digital age. 

Are there scripts you can overlay on your console to auto-spawn camp someone?  Doesn't it get boring? Sorry to get off topic here, but I would argue this new topic is very important in its own right.
I have never used one, but I, too, am a casual gamer.  I can ask the "crazy" ones, if you would like.  And yes, it can get boring, but boring can be worth it, if you are annoyed enough.  ;)

LalsConstant

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2015, 10:10:40 PM »
I currently don't play anything online except Minecraft, I've taken a break from the hobby to spend more time exercising here lately.  I will probably jump into Everquest Next though, which will be one of the rare times I buy a mainstream full price title...

Anyway spawn camping for the uninitiated, to define it without any lingo, is the practice of positioning players around a starting point in a competitive game to immediately defeat entering opposing players.

It's good sportsmanship to not do this, but it is done sometimes by people who care more about points or kills than they do about playing well.  In this case, we were complicit in allowing it to happen to one particular person who had said basically this:

Idiot:  R U a girl IRL
Female Player:  My doctor says so
Idiot: TITS OR GTFO
Female Player:  Yours first, bet your boobs are bigger than mine
<us in the other channel Idiot can't see>: LOL
Idiot: I hope you get raped
Female Player:  I hope you enjoy your account ban

And from there, we made contact with some opposing players and essentially asked if they'd like to waste some time torturing this idiot after explaining he said some things in a chat channel that were not acceptable, essentially calling in a favor.  This was also way back when in DAoC, pre expansion even.  I was much younger and had a lot more time on my hands back then.

Funny enough, he got banned very soon after this, got a new account, came back, said something similar, got blacklisted with every player alliance, and finally quit, at least on that server.  But this was back when the communities were smaller.  Morons like this stood out.  You can't stop people like this from playing but the shunning works wonders.

This kind of thing just doesn't seem to work as well in some settings though, like Xbox live, mostly because an MMO offers a player built hierarchy to mete out punishments for idiot behavior and isn't solely a communications hub.  I know I'm a PC gaming elitist, but seriously this stuff is 5x worse on consoles.

Extra Credits summarized it pretty well and outlined how to fight it, but the feedback mechanisms they suggest to automute problem users just don't seem to be forthcoming.  Maybe the next generation of consoles will see it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9GwmOWoqo

All this said, yes, certain very crass things are expected and even acceptable to say in these environments sometimes because the context and expectations are very different.  I do think there is a certain contingent of people entering this space, seeing this, and clutching their pearls. 

I will say some utterly horrible things to players I've known for a long time and they will say utterly horrible things back and we'll both laugh at it.  Have you ever had a long time friend who you trade insults with constantly?  It's like that.  Granted, I keep communications like that very private, but it's easy to slip when you're multitasking.

It's rather stupid to assume everything said is a personal attack.  People equating this kind of banter with "I hope you get raped" are making the issue WORSE, not better.

Honestly I don't think this will really change much until the Baby Boomers who all think video games are for kids and consist of bleeps and bloops who make decisions at big corporations are ousted by the generation that grew up with the NES, who have a clue electronic gaming isn't innocent 8 year old stomping on Goombas any more.

And for the love of God if you do happen to have an 8 year old, first make them play outside, second, make sure they are dying of dysentery.  Smash Bros., Mario Kart, etc. are perfectly competent stand ins.  Shooting zombies and killing people with swords will still be there when they're old enough to handle it.

rocketpj

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2015, 12:22:53 AM »
Yeah, looks like I opened a can of worms there a bit.  I wasn't even really talking about the in-game banter - though certainly women have been made pretty uncomfortable/unwelcome in some places with that.  I was mostly referring to the g-a-m-e-r-g-a-t-e* insanity that has been all over the internet lately, where women game designers and journalists are getting death threats and buried in vitriol and hate for expressing their opinions.  A totally different level of problem, and hugely not OK. 

I'm not really a gamer anymore - a business, a full time job, 2 kids and an apparent inability to keep myself from developing new interests means that my gaming tends to be of the '30 minutes of Catan' variety nowadays. 


*written this way to avoid the batsignal going up and a swarm of jerks coming to the forum, which I have seen in other places when that issue is mentioned.

galliver

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2015, 12:56:43 AM »
A while back, a friend posted a conversation she had on the phone after the tires she ordered for her car came in. The guy asked for "Mr Friend," several times, even when she indicated SHE would like to schedule a time to bring HER car in to get the tires installed. It was RIDICULOUS.

Also, waiters who automatically give the guy the check. Instead of putting in the middle, or (God forbid) ASKING!

PEIslander

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2015, 04:22:33 AM »
The cultural stereotype that men are supposed to be obsessed with sports irritates me. I've never developed any interest in team sports so it seems to me the amount of media attention that sports get, not to mention the obsession of fans,  boggles my mind. I feel like I'm bombarded with their sports obsession. It seems that the media and sports fans themselves can't understand that some people just aren't interested, and they understand it even less if it is a man who doesn't share their obsession. The implication is if you aren't interested you aren't a "real" man. Women who aren't interested can opt-out just because they are women. It is culturally accepted that women may or may not be interested in sports. It is far less accepted for a man. 

kyanamerinas

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2015, 04:52:01 AM »
i am a woman who likes beer, particularly dark and strong beers such as ports and stouts. i have several times been asked (by the bar staff) if I am sure that is what I want, whether I'd like something lighter and informed that the beer I've chosen is quite strong. i do not go back to these places.

boy_bye

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2015, 06:26:14 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- being expected to set up meetings and take notes, even when I'm the guest expert doing a presentation as a favor for someone else

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

- being interrupted

- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

- the sexualization of little girls

- the wage gap

- the fact that I'm sure there's someome who's reading this and getting annoyed because they are a dude and don't experience these types of sexist behaviors and therefore they don't exist

Robert85

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2015, 07:59:50 AM »
I agree with previous post

Franklin

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2015, 09:07:10 AM »
I agree with previous post

Except that her last sentence was sexist

boy_bye

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2015, 09:18:58 AM »

MandalayVA

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2015, 10:18:23 AM »
It is culturally accepted that women may or may not be interested in sports.

I have to correct you on the bolded.  There are many men who believe that women watch sports for two reasons:  A) To hang out with their SO or B) Because they think a particular player is cute.  Witness the "pink hat" phenomenon.  The pink jerseys are ALWAYS for the "cute" players.  Every football team has cheerleader outfits for little girls.  Last year the NFL introduced TIARAS in team colors.

Then there are the condescending assholes who think that a woman couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about sports.  A few years ago a friend of mine had a Super Bowl party.  I showed up in my Pittsburgh Steelers swag (Ben Roethlisberger jersey and Steelers cap).  Some guy saw this and proceeded to grill me about what colleges various Steelers had attended, then started asking about various and meaningless stats, like who had led the league in rushing that year.  I calmly answered all of his questions before my friend's husband told the asshole to shut the fuck up.  Sad to say, that wasn't the first time or the last time that's happened.  I play fantasy football too and there's always That Guy in there too.  Lucky for me I usually end up handing him his ass when we're matched up.  :D  Oh--and back in the day when we had cable my husband upgraded to the swanky sports package as an anniversary gift.  Of course the cable guy enthused to HIM about what was in the package.  My husband replied "she's the sports fan."  The guy goggled at me about as much as if Mr. Mandalay had said "she's from Mars."

AlanStache

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2015, 10:20:17 AM »
Men have to think twice before physically defending themselves from a female attacker.

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2015, 10:28:44 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

How is that sexist? Do you have any reason to believe that the company purposely doesn't hire women?

Quote
- being interrupted

Not sexism, happens to everyone.

Quote
- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

Outright false.

Quote
- the wage gap

Little evidence this is linked to sexism.

gaja

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2015, 10:41:00 AM »
Lack of diaper changing facilities in public restrooms were an issue here, but one father started making noise (writing letters, going to the newpapers, etc. If you look at the pictures in his blog, you can see IKEA's solution: http://www.superpapsen.no/2012/07/09/et-lite-steg-for-dere-et-enormt-steg-for-superpapsen/

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2015, 10:42:22 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

How is that sexist? Do you have any reason to believe that the company purposely doesn't hire women?

Quote
- being interrupted

Not sexism, happens to everyone.

Quote
- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

Outright false.

Quote
- the wage gap

Little evidence this is linked to sexism.
You really need to read peer reviewed studies because all of the above bolded have been studied over and over and yes, it all sexism.  And while you are at it, why don't you check out US crime stats, 1/4 stat is true. 
Pretending thirty years of data is wrong because you don't want to believe it is as sad as those who decide evolution is wrong and vaccines cause autism.

LalsConstant

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2015, 10:48:36 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- being expected to set up meetings and take notes, even when I'm the guest expert doing a presentation as a favor for someone else

Context please, is this a culture at a particular organization that expects this of one gender but not the other?  I've been in that situation before and hated it so much.  One of our employees was a Powerpoint wizard who could do that stuff infinitely better and faster than I could, but our boss was a dick and wouldn't let us have her make the presentations because they were too "effeminate".  How the hell is Powerpoint ever going to be "effeminate!?"  But that wasn't the only reason that particular job sucked...

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

This one confuses me, how is it sexist that other people are male? I don't mean to be facetious I'm genuinely missing something here.  Why is it a problem these people are male?

- being interrupted

Context please, this is certainly rude but inferring the poster is female, I assume there's some tendency to interrupt women as opposed to men being remarked on here.  Is it in general or is it associated with the first item, a particular organization's culture?  It's sexist either way of course but I'm genuinely curious.  I've read studies that in an average conversation women say more than men and that women speak more words per day then men on average, so it intrigues me this would be true.


- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

I take issue with calling this a "fact" based on scholarly criticism of the original study.  While sexual assault of any person is almost always inherently sexist (unless your assaulter is some kind of pansexual where they would literally assault any person with equal probability) because the victim is targeted because of their sex, this is a common figure you hear often that's just not reliable.

This is based old data gathered by Mary Koss in 1985 and for Ms. Magazine, so right away we're in decades old data and a sample that probably isn't truly random with regard to the entire female population.  Christina Hoff Sommers has criticized this survey because of the following question:  Have you had sexual intercourse you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?

Sommers explains what is wrong with that question better than I ever could, but I will attempt to paraphrase.  Essentially the question is flawed in its design.  Clearly it's intended to measure instances of chemically induced rape, but it allows for the ambiguity of having a consensual sexual encounter that was later regretted, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy that the misuse of recreational drugs or alcohol lead to sexual encounters one later regrets.

Additionally only 27% of the women Koss reported as victims identified themselves as rape victims in their responses.  It's true that there are more forms of sexual assault then rape, but this should give one pause to consider the data collection and reporting here is highly questionable.  Considering this was for a magazine and citing something that isn't exciting or shocking will not sell issues, Koff had incredible incentive to overstate.

Sommers' criticism and retabulation of the data places the assault figure closer to 1 in 14, which has some rough parity with estimates that about 5 or 6 percent of men are rapists (and a good number of them tend to be serial rapists, so the female victimization rate should be a little larger than the rate of male rapists assuming heterosexual rape is the bulk of crimes committed).  The question then becomes whose methodology do you believe?

While I don't think any reasonable person male or female should dismiss the experiences reported by the respondents, it's prudent to be very skeptical of the 1 in 4 citation.

- the sexualization of little girls

Wholeheartedly agreed.  I have cousins who take "glamour shots" of their six year old!  UGh so creepy!

What in the deep blue hell are people thinking?  I mean seriously you see this crap sometimes in general interest media and you feel sick just looking at it, every part of you knows it's wrong, how do people not realize this!? 

Okay I'm getting mad about something I can't change.  Next topic!

- the wage gap

The problem with the idea of the gender pay gap is it depends on bias to perceive it as correct or incorrect.  Many critics of this figure point out the erroneous nature of comparing total earnings without correcting for the different types of jobs typically held, the number of hours worked by either sex is different, men are more likely to specialize in some careers, self employed women earn less than self employed men, etc.

Even the Department of Labor published a document, "An Analysis of Reasons for Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women", that concludes "This study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action.  Indeed, there may be nothing to correct.  The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers."

The problem is, people who see themselves or a group of people has having no agency or control of their circumstances is going to see a wage gap based on sexism.  They are going to assume causation, essentially.

People who believe individual choices and actions have bearing are going to look deeper and read in causations of their own besides gender, and consequently are going to believe there is no such gap.  It really bugs me then when people belt that fact out like it's objective and absolutely true without qualifying it's based on a raw earnings comparison.

I've always been skeptical of it because if it were true, no man would have a job perhaps outside of men who might work as actors or models where you need maleness as a requisite for the job.  You'd fire them all and hire women and get the same benefit cheaper.

Despite that, I'm not judging here, because while I think it leads you to a better life to believe that your personal actions that you control do matter, at least more than your race, gender, etc., because even if you are wrong you will still accomplish more this way, the absolute truth of the matter is unknown to me personally.

I for one find it tragic we debate the gender pay gap rather than explore the deeper reasoning here and try to somehow accurately understand what an individual's locus of control is.  Exploring the reasoning behind why men and women make these choices would probably reveal all kinds of sexism for both.  That's the discussion I wish we were having.

Incidentally, I've always found it interesting that the Census Bureau numbers indicate never married women earn at the same levels as men (and interestingly men who are married earn more, I wonder if they earn more because they're married or if they're married because they earn more), and a number of studies point out that for adults under 35, women out-earn men.  This makes sense to me considering how much culture has shifted, the cultural values associated with marriage at least in my mind, and how men aren't attaining education at the same levels, but it's always intrigued me all the same.

- the fact that I'm sure there's someome who's reading this and getting annoyed because they are a dude and don't experience these types of sexist behaviors and therefore they don't exist

A person can be annoyed with certain items listed for reasons other than the one listed, but I'm now so worked up about the baby sexualization issue I'm going to take a break after saying one more thing in two parts:

1. Sexist things effect everyone.  Just because the effect is different doesn't mean you're "immune".

2. As long as there is one objective physiological difference between the genders, there's always going to be at least some clearly defensible context where they have to be treated differently.  A clear example of this is in medicine.  The question of how far that extends is pretty murky, so while I don't agree with some of these items I do not mean to mock or belittle anyone's concern that they might be true.  Rather I'm only pointing out that we have to look at things comprehensively and have strong arguments that phenomena are clearly attributable to one gender being treated differently for no other discernible reason than gender.  There are plenty of examples even under this strict criteria!

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2015, 11:00:50 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

How is that sexist? Do you have any reason to believe that the company purposely doesn't hire women?

Quote
- being interrupted

Not sexism, happens to everyone.

Quote
- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

Outright false.

Quote
- the wage gap

Little evidence this is linked to sexism.
You really need to read peer reviewed studies because all of the above bolded have been studied over and over and yes, it all sexism.  And while you are at it, why don't you check out US crime stats, 1/4 stat is true. 
Pretending thirty years of data is wrong because you don't want to believe it is as sad as those who decide evolution is wrong and vaccines cause autism.

Actually, the wage gap has been debunked over and over, women who make the same personal and lifestyle choices have similar career and earning success (young women are actually outearning young men now when comparing apples to apples - hours worked, qualifications, absences from work, job title, education, etc), and the 1/4 stat is absolutely nonsensical and has zero actual evidence to back it up beyond strangely worded surveys from 20+ years ago.

MooseOutFront

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2015, 11:21:16 AM »
I hear female coworkers openly lament their ability to advance at our place of work (bank).  I don't know what to think about it.  On one hand there do seem to be a lot of jobs here filled almost entirely by one gender or another.  Executive management is mostly male for sure, but one rung down you have my boss who is one of the most educated and successful businesswomen in town.  Not sure how you can work down the hall from her and think that gender is holding you back.  I realize this is anecdotal, but specifically I heard the gender lament from a new hire in her 20's who hasn't even been at this company long enough to be jaded by experience.

boy_bye

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2015, 11:23:09 AM »
Thank you for prompting me to re-research sexual assault stats.

According to RAINN, the figure currently stands at 1 out of 6 women and 1 out of 33 men.
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

Aka still far too fucking many.

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2015, 11:27:53 AM »
I hear female coworkers openly lament their ability to advance at our place of work (bank).  I don't know what to think about it.  On one hand there do seem to be a lot of jobs here filled almost entirely by one gender or another.  Executive management is mostly male for sure, but one rung down you have my boss who is one of the most educated and successful businesswomen in town.  Not sure how you can work down the hall from her and think that gender is holding you back.  I realize this is anecdotal, but specifically I heard the gender lament from a new hire in her 20's who hasn't even been at this company long enough to be jaded by experience.

I think it can often be an easy excuse for not putting in the effort and sacrifices required to advance in some fields. I don't really blame people - it's one of the few excuse cards a person can play that gets them sympathy and minimal judgement. You'll get very little sympathy for saying "I'd like to be promoted, but don't want to work longer hours, take less time off work, or prioritize work above my family and personal commitments."

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2015, 11:30:59 AM »
Thank you for prompting me to re-research sexual assault stats.

According to RAINN, the figure currently stands at 1 out of 6 women and 1 out of 33 men.
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

Aka still far too fucking many.

And how many of those are assumed numbers of unreported assaults? Depending which feminist group you talk to, the assumption can be anywhere from 30% to 99% unreported (which obviously should not be included, since it's essentially a number pulled out of a hat given the variance).

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2015, 11:41:42 AM »
Lots of sexist things drive me crazy:

- that when I walk past a meeting of high mucky mucks at work it is invariably a sausage party in there

How is that sexist? Do you have any reason to believe that the company purposely doesn't hire women?

Quote
- being interrupted

Not sexism, happens to everyone.

Quote
- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

Outright false.

Quote
- the wage gap

Little evidence this is linked to sexism.
You really need to read peer reviewed studies because all of the above bolded have been studied over and over and yes, it all sexism.  And while you are at it, why don't you check out US crime stats, 1/4 stat is true. 
Pretending thirty years of data is wrong because you don't want to believe it is as sad as those who decide evolution is wrong and vaccines cause autism.

Actually, the wage gap has been debunked over and over, women who make the same personal and lifestyle choices have similar career and earning success (young women are actually outearning young men now when comparing apples to apples - hours worked, qualifications, absences from work, job title, education, etc), and the 1/4 stat is absolutely nonsensical and has zero actual evidence to back it up beyond strangely worded surveys from 20+ years ago.
There have been multiple studies that attempt to account for EVERYTHING else, often done in the beginning if careers, for example one done for MDs.  I can find the article again, but basically they said in their discussion that originally did not believe the wage gap was because of gender and they had sought to prove that.  And yet, after accounting for everything they could think of, it was there.  This has been repeated in multiple fields. 
Then there are the resume experiments where the only difference in the resumes is gender and the people reading them just the female resumes to be less competent.  It also been shown that even if hired those who are just "less competent" get a lower offer. 
And the 1/4 originally stat came from a study people have issues with, however, it has redone in different setting and yes, it averages out 1/6 attempts of sexual assault (which does include chemical rape, which some people disagree with), if we include military and college stats not including, I believe unreported.  Arguing issues with one article, instead of look at the multiple articles since show a bias. 

The 1/6 set comes from https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/183781.pdf which also included how they got 1/4.  Neither study has such limitations to be invalid.  Maybe Canada is different but here, we have serious issues. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 11:50:15 AM by Gin1984 »

boy_bye

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2015, 12:35:17 PM »
Thank you for prompting me to re-research sexual assault stats.

According to RAINN, the figure currently stands at 1 out of 6 women and 1 out of 33 men.
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

Aka still far too fucking many.

And how many of those are assumed numbers of unreported assaults? Depending which feminist group you talk to, the assumption can be anywhere from 30% to 99% unreported (which obviously should not be included, since it's essentially a number pulled out of a hat given the variance).

I know several women who have been assaulted who did not report it. There are lots of good reasons why people don't report sexual assaults. Doesn't mean the assaults didn't happen.

MishMash

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2015, 12:53:08 PM »
Oh god I have so many I could scream.  My small start up male dominated company has meted me out everything from blatant groping/ass slapping to the men signing for the office supplies and leaving them on my desk to put away.  I'm one of only two woman in my company and I'm an engineer...which apparently also means secretary. But my all time FAVORITE is below. Context, husband deployed, hail storm, massive damage, new roof needed 2 weeks after said deployment started, this was 5ish years ago.

Contractor:  So, I took a look at the roof, and yea, it's pretty bad, now, lets talk price. ***sneaky ninja slides me a quote
Me:  Ok thanks for taking a look, I have 5 other contractors coming out over the next two days to give me estimates, I'll give you a call when I have everything in hand
Contractor:  NO ONE is going to beat me in price!  AND if you sign TODAY, I'll knock 500 off the quote price.
Me: No, I'm sorry I don't sign anything without getting multiple opinions.
Contractor:  Where is your husband?
Me: (not wanting to say he's deployed) He's at work.
Contractor:  Then I will wait outside until he comes home
Me: Why?  I'm the one who called you out...like I honestly was confused why he was asking, I had NO clue what he wanted to talk to my husband for.
Contractor:  Because he's the man of the house and only his opinion matters, especially with household finances.
Me: HAHAHAHAHAHA (literally I laughed so hard I couldn't catch my breath)  You MUST be kidding me?  My husband doesn't even know how much he gets paid, never mind anything to do with the finances
Contractor:  *bright red in the face*  I MUST speak with the MAN of the house, your opinion on my bid is worthless to me
Me: Get out
Contractor: No
Me: No, really I'm not kidding, get the fuck out of my house, and off my property
Contract: No (he was at that moment trying to tower me down and intimidate me by getting in my face with his fists clenched)
Me:  You realize we are in the state of CO and I have enough guns in this house to arm a small militia, guns that I am VERY capable of operating...if you do not leave my property at this moment I am going to consider you a trespasser and call the police, if you attempt to approach me after that moment  I WILL use lethal force.
Contractor: *grabs his shit*  If the MAN of the house was here we'd be doing business.
Me:  If the man of the house was here and heard the shit you just pulled, you would be going out on a stretcher, be THANKFUL the man of the house isn't here.  I told my husband that night and he went BALLISTIC

Called the company hotline to report this shit, figuring the owner needs to know about this joker...turns out he WAS the owner and his son about had a stroke when I talked to him about it.  Lots of bad yelp google etc reviews occurred...and of course, he was 2 grand higher then the next bid.


bigalsmith101

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2015, 02:00:19 PM »
Called the company hotline to report this shit, figuring the owner needs to know about this joker...turns out he WAS the owner and his son about had a stroke when I talked to him about it.  Lots of bad yelp google etc reviews occurred...and of course, he was 2 grand higher then the next bid.

This sort of shit REALLY pisses me off. Especially as a married male with a fully competent wife. What an ignorant fool that man was.

My own story serves to show the viewpoint of many men and women (typically a generation older then my wife and I).  I work a physically demanding job, delivering appliances into peoples homes. I.E, carrying your stove,refrigerator,freezer etc up stairs, down stairs, in your basement etc. I have an assistant accompany me daily for these jobs. We use a form of carrying straps to accomplish this, and we're highly skilled at it.

Regularly my 5'10", 145 lb wife is my fully paid assistant, and one of a very few females in the industry.

Here follows a typical delivery/installation job at a customers home:

Me: Hello! We've got your new fridge for delivery today! (Wife is in truck, calling next customer, planning route, completing manifest. She's out of sight)
Customer: Excellent. I'm sorry, you'll hate this, but it has to go these stairs into the kitchen. (Points upstairs)
Me: Totally normal sir/ma'am, I do this multiple times a day, 6 days a week.
Customer: You have help right? You're not here alone are you? That fridge must be heavy!
Me: Of course I have help! That fridge is 300+ pounds! She's in the truck right now completing the paperwork
Customer: Wait, did you say "SHE" (Eyes wide and confused)
Me: Yes, relax, you'll very shortly see that "she" is more than capable.
Customer: Okay... (short pause) Are you sure, I can help if needed.
Me: (By now I'm annoyed at this repeat of every day idiocy). I'm sure. Remember, we do this for a living.
Customer: (See's my slim wife, realizes she's not amazonian, gets more concerned, expresses outright disbelief) If you're trying to tell me that she's going to lift that appliance with you, I can't believe it... (sometimes this is even said DIRECTLY in front of my wife, as if she's not there).
Me: Would you care to wager on that? Maybe a percentage of the value of your $2k fridge?
Customer: (Sheepishly smiles and shakes his head no)
Me: Just sit back, relax, watch, learn, and be prepared to have your mind blown.

At which point we very handily perform the delivery and installation like the seasoned pro's we are. The customer is mind blown when my wife lifts half of the 300+lb fridge.  Add to this the fact that my wife is 100% more task oriented and efficient (because her performance relates directly to OUR net worth), and our delivery time shrinks and we're more productive.

The customer invariably expresses more disbelief of her capacities, apologizes (most of the time) for not giving her the benefit of the doubt, tells us we were the best team they ever had deliver appliances, and then gives us a tip proportionate to their level of disbelief.

These customers see me, 6'7" in my work boots, 220lb, and male, and think nothing of it. They see my slim, trim, beautiful wife and immediately express concern at her capacities. 

And for the record, just as often as I have a male customer that can't believe what we do, I'll have a female customer that is equally arrogant.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:03:20 PM by bigalsmith101 »

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2015, 02:05:56 PM »
Thank you for prompting me to re-research sexual assault stats.

According to RAINN, the figure currently stands at 1 out of 6 women and 1 out of 33 men.
https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

Aka still far too fucking many.

And how many of those are assumed numbers of unreported assaults? Depending which feminist group you talk to, the assumption can be anywhere from 30% to 99% unreported (which obviously should not be included, since it's essentially a number pulled out of a hat given the variance).

I know several women who have been assaulted who did not report it. There are lots of good reasons why people don't report sexual assaults. Doesn't mean the assaults didn't happen.

Sure, it happens. But does it happen 30% or 99% of the time? What random made-up number should be used for official assault statistics? It seems to be whatever number a group feels like using to get the greatest amount of sympathy/funding. Making up numbers greatly distorts statistics, surprisingly.

Allen

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2015, 02:17:16 PM »
So here's one that's happened to me recently, but has happened before: men are assumed to commit child predation even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I've lost 78 pounds in the last 6-7 months.  A part of that is I'm exercising more.  A trainer suggested I should try to add skipping rope to what I'm doing.

But I need to keep practicing with it as I'm terrible at skipping rope.  I had found a spot I thought was fine, it's on a piece of public land, a storm drainage installation, where there's a small bit of pavement to stand on.

And bear in mind, people come here all the time to jog, run, stretch, talk on their phone, etc.  Jumping rope shouldn't be "weird" when people are already using the area for similar activities.

I also do not spend more than ten minutes doing this, I know because I time myself.

I go out there one day and I'm going at it, and suddenly this cop pulls up, gets out of the patrol car and approaches me...

Apparently I'd been reported as a "man gyrating and playing with children's toys" near the school bus stop.

First of all, "gyrating?"  Look I realize a fat man jumping up and down is not attractive, but if it is anything it is hilarious entertainment.  It's nothing short of outrageous to suggest a person not engage in utilitarian human locomotion due to their unfortunate appearance.

Second of all a jump rope is something children may play with, but it's not a child's toy, especially not mine, it is a piece of exercise equipment.  I also want to point out my jump rope is not even colorful, it's a plain black weighted rope I bought at a sporting goods store.

Thank goodness the officer was a reasonable human who told me the complaint was clearly someone being ridiculous, but at his suggestion I now go to a different location to do this to prevent a repeat of this incident.  Is it a big deal, no, is it ridiculous I have to even consider this, absolutely.

This isn't an isolated happening either.  I've been asked to leave a park before too for being "unaccompanied".

And that's not even mentioning all the times I will be walking down the street, female joggers will go whizzing by parents accompanying children and they do not react in any way, but the instant they see me, people will move their kids across the street just to get away from me.

For whatever it's worth, I choose not to let these things set the tone for my life in general, but does it grate on me once in a while? Sure does!  Is it good to vent here and there?  I think so, long as you don't overdo it.

Huh!  I always assumed me noticing this type of behavior was because I was black, but maybe it's because I'm fat or possibly just because I'm a man.

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2015, 02:22:00 PM »
So here's one that's happened to me recently, but has happened before: men are assumed to commit child predation even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I've lost 78 pounds in the last 6-7 months.  A part of that is I'm exercising more.  A trainer suggested I should try to add skipping rope to what I'm doing.

But I need to keep practicing with it as I'm terrible at skipping rope.  I had found a spot I thought was fine, it's on a piece of public land, a storm drainage installation, where there's a small bit of pavement to stand on.

And bear in mind, people come here all the time to jog, run, stretch, talk on their phone, etc.  Jumping rope shouldn't be "weird" when people are already using the area for similar activities.

I also do not spend more than ten minutes doing this, I know because I time myself.

I go out there one day and I'm going at it, and suddenly this cop pulls up, gets out of the patrol car and approaches me...

Apparently I'd been reported as a "man gyrating and playing with children's toys" near the school bus stop.

First of all, "gyrating?"  Look I realize a fat man jumping up and down is not attractive, but if it is anything it is hilarious entertainment.  It's nothing short of outrageous to suggest a person not engage in utilitarian human locomotion due to their unfortunate appearance.

Second of all a jump rope is something children may play with, but it's not a child's toy, especially not mine, it is a piece of exercise equipment.  I also want to point out my jump rope is not even colorful, it's a plain black weighted rope I bought at a sporting goods store.

Thank goodness the officer was a reasonable human who told me the complaint was clearly someone being ridiculous, but at his suggestion I now go to a different location to do this to prevent a repeat of this incident.  Is it a big deal, no, is it ridiculous I have to even consider this, absolutely.

This isn't an isolated happening either.  I've been asked to leave a park before too for being "unaccompanied".

And that's not even mentioning all the times I will be walking down the street, female joggers will go whizzing by parents accompanying children and they do not react in any way, but the instant they see me, people will move their kids across the street just to get away from me.

For whatever it's worth, I choose not to let these things set the tone for my life in general, but does it grate on me once in a while? Sure does!  Is it good to vent here and there?  I think so, long as you don't overdo it.

Huh! I always assumed me noticing this type of behavior was because I was black, but maybe it's because I'm fat or possibly just because I'm a man.
I am more aware of males being near me, because like it or not, I'm more likely to be harmed by male than a female, yet after the issues in florida and many of the protests I often do worry that a black man is feeling like I am judging him for race.  I have wanted a few times to say, sorry I'm sexist, not racist here.  But I don't know if that would make someone feel better. 

MandalayVA

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2015, 02:22:53 PM »
Called the company hotline to report this shit, figuring the owner needs to know about this joker...turns out he WAS the owner and his son about had a stroke when I talked to him about it.  Lots of bad yelp google etc reviews occurred...and of course, he was 2 grand higher then the next bid.

This sort of shit REALLY pisses me off. Especially as a married male with a fully competent wife. What an ignorant fool that man was.

My own story serves to show the viewpoint of many men and women (typically a generation older then my wife and I).  I work a physically demanding job, delivering appliances into peoples homes. I.E, carrying your stove,refrigerator,freezer etc up stairs, down stairs, in your basement etc. I have an assistant accompany me daily for these jobs. We use a form of carrying straps to accomplish this, and we're highly skilled at it.

Regularly my 5'10", 145 lb wife is my fully paid assistant, and one of a very few females in the industry.

Here follows a typical delivery/installation job at a customers home:

Me: Hello! We've got your new fridge for delivery today! (Wife is in truck, calling next customer, planning route, completing manifest. She's out of sight)
Customer: Excellent. I'm sorry, you'll hate this, but it has to go these stairs into the kitchen. (Points upstairs)
Me: Totally normal sir/ma'am, I do this multiple times a day, 6 days a week.
Customer: You have help right? You're not here alone are you? That fridge must be heavy!
Me: Of course I have help! That fridge is 300+ pounds! She's in the truck right now completing the paperwork
Customer: Wait, did you say "SHE" (Eyes wide and confused)
Me: Yes, relax, you'll very shortly see that "she" is more than capable.
Customer: Okay... (short pause) Are you sure, I can help if needed.
Me: (By now I'm annoyed at this repeat of every day idiocy). I'm sure. Remember, we do this for a living.
Customer: (See's my slim wife, realizes she's not amazonian, gets more concerned, expresses outright disbelief) If you're trying to tell me that she's going to lift that appliance with you, I can't believe it... (sometimes this is even said DIRECTLY in front of my wife, as if she's not there).
Me: Would you care to wager on that? Maybe a percentage of the value of your $2k fridge?
Customer: (Sheepishly smiles and shakes his head no)
Me: Just sit back, relax, watch, learn, and be prepared to have your mind blown.

At which point we very handily perform the delivery and installation like the seasoned pro's we are. The customer is mind blown when my wife lifts half of the 300+lb fridge.  Add to this the fact that my wife is 100% more task oriented and efficient (because her performance relates directly to OUR net worth), and our delivery time shrinks and we're more productive.

The customer invariably expresses more disbelief of her capacities, apologizes (most of the time) for not giving her the benefit of the doubt, tells us we were the best team they ever had deliver appliances, and then gives us a tip proportionate to their level of disbelief.

These customers see me, 6'7" in my work boots, 220lb, and male, and think nothing of it. They see my slim, trim, beautiful wife and immediately express concern at her capacities. 

And for the record, just as often as I have a male customer that can't believe what we do, I'll have a female customer that is equally arrogant.

Your wife has officially won the Badass of the Day Award!!

rocketpj

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2015, 02:26:12 PM »
Guys!  Don't take it personally when people talk about things that some men to do some women.

If I were to say "Some men have facial hair" nobody would take it to mean I was talking about them unless they in fact have facial hair.  I am certainly not implying that all men have facial hair, or should , or some of it is unreported facial hair or whatever.  I am implying nothing other than that it is a fact.

Now if I say "Some men are sick assholes who rape women" then all of a sudden we get people who think I am talking about them.  'But I don't rape women, stop tarring me with that brush!".  Of course, lots of men (myself included) would never, ever do such a thing.  That does not mean it doesn't happen, and that some sick bastards do it sometimes or even often.

Instead of nitpicking the stats in a misguided attempt at defending our honor or whatever, how about we just focus our energy on outing the sick assholes and finding ways to make them stop committing rape (reported or unreported).

Cressida

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2015, 02:28:20 PM »
Guys!  Don't take it personally when people talk about things that some men to do some women.

If I were to say "Some men have facial hair" nobody would take it to mean I was talking about them unless they in fact have facial hair.  I am certainly not implying that all men have facial hair, or should , or some of it is unreported facial hair or whatever.  I am implying nothing other than that it is a fact.

Now if I say "Some men are sick assholes who rape women" then all of a sudden we get people who think I am talking about them.  'But I don't rape women, stop tarring me with that brush!".  Of course, lots of men (myself included) would never, ever do such a thing.  That does not mean it doesn't happen, and that some sick bastards do it sometimes or even often.

Instead of nitpicking the stats in a misguided attempt at defending our honor or whatever, how about we just focus our energy on outing the sick assholes and finding ways to make them stop committing rape (reported or unreported).

+1

Cressida

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2015, 02:29:00 PM »
I would love to know why some people feel so threatened by the possibility that sexism is a thing.


bigalsmith101

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2015, 02:51:33 PM »
Quote
Your wife has officially won the Badass of the Day Award!!

Thanks MandalayVA! It's because we know HOW to do our job that allows her to complete the tasks she's responsible for. We use these: http://www.shoulderdolly.com To lift the appliances.

I tell people that while yes, I do have to do a bit more labor when my wife is my assistant, I do less "work" overall and if it didn't impede her career goals, I'd choose her every day over a muscle bound assistant.

UnleashHell

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2015, 03:10:16 PM »
Huh!  I always assumed me noticing this type of behavior was because I was black, but maybe it's because I'm fat or possibly just because I'm a man.

they keep crossing the road because of that? throw in a few poor choices in clothing and the people in your neighbourhood are gonna be crossing so many roads to get away from you that they'll be the fittest in the states!! Damn - they should pay you for being out in public!!!

MishMash

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2015, 03:25:09 PM »
Called the company hotline to report this shit, figuring the owner needs to know about this joker...turns out he WAS the owner and his son about had a stroke when I talked to him about it.  Lots of bad yelp google etc reviews occurred...and of course, he was 2 grand higher then the next bid.

This sort of shit REALLY pisses me off. Especially as a married male with a fully competent wife. What an ignorant fool that man was.

My own story serves to show the viewpoint of many men and women (typically a generation older then my wife and I).  I work a physically demanding job, delivering appliances into peoples homes. I.E, carrying your stove,refrigerator,freezer etc up stairs, down stairs, in your basement etc. I have an assistant accompany me daily for these jobs. We use a form of carrying straps to accomplish this, and we're highly skilled at it.

Regularly my 5'10", 145 lb wife is my fully paid assistant, and one of a very few females in the industry.

Here follows a typical delivery/installation job at a customers home:

Me: Hello! We've got your new fridge for delivery today! (Wife is in truck, calling next customer, planning route, completing manifest. She's out of sight)
Customer: Excellent. I'm sorry, you'll hate this, but it has to go these stairs into the kitchen. (Points upstairs)
Me: Totally normal sir/ma'am, I do this multiple times a day, 6 days a week.
Customer: You have help right? You're not here alone are you? That fridge must be heavy!
Me: Of course I have help! That fridge is 300+ pounds! She's in the truck right now completing the paperwork
Customer: Wait, did you say "SHE" (Eyes wide and confused)
Me: Yes, relax, you'll very shortly see that "she" is more than capable.
Customer: Okay... (short pause) Are you sure, I can help if needed.
Me: (By now I'm annoyed at this repeat of every day idiocy). I'm sure. Remember, we do this for a living.
Customer: (See's my slim wife, realizes she's not amazonian, gets more concerned, expresses outright disbelief) If you're trying to tell me that she's going to lift that appliance with you, I can't believe it... (sometimes this is even said DIRECTLY in front of my wife, as if she's not there).
Me: Would you care to wager on that? Maybe a percentage of the value of your $2k fridge?
Customer: (Sheepishly smiles and shakes his head no)
Me: Just sit back, relax, watch, learn, and be prepared to have your mind blown.

At which point we very handily perform the delivery and installation like the seasoned pro's we are. The customer is mind blown when my wife lifts half of the 300+lb fridge.  Add to this the fact that my wife is 100% more task oriented and efficient (because her performance relates directly to OUR net worth), and our delivery time shrinks and we're more productive.

The customer invariably expresses more disbelief of her capacities, apologizes (most of the time) for not giving her the benefit of the doubt, tells us we were the best team they ever had deliver appliances, and then gives us a tip proportionate to their level of disbelief.

These customers see me, 6'7" in my work boots, 220lb, and male, and think nothing of it. They see my slim, trim, beautiful wife and immediately express concern at her capacities. 

And for the record, just as often as I have a male customer that can't believe what we do, I'll have a female customer that is equally arrogant.

Yea he poked me in the chest on the way out the door, I guess to make his point of what he thought about me and it god honestly took every ounce of self control I had not to rip his damn arm off

Beaker

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2015, 03:26:07 PM »
Quote from: LalsConstant
So here's one that's happened to me recently, but has happened before: men are assumed to commit child predation even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

The park in front of my house had a problem with some perv bugging kids on the playground. Clearly a problem, but the neighborhood association's solution was to call the police any time you see a single man near the playground. I about had a fit at that one. I frequently take a jog around the park and finish up with a few sets of pull-ups on the monkey bars. Look, a sweaty man gyrating near the kids! Must be a pedophile! Call the police!

Quote
(...some gamers are sexist assholes conversation...)
Unfortunately true in many cases, especially on XBox Live. Sadly, the stereotype of the 15-year old who just learned how to curse and offend people has a strong basis in reality. Not all gamers, certainly, but a depressingly vocal minority.

Quote
(...entire conversation about 1/4 or 1/6 women sexually abused...)
I used to sometimes express some skepticism about those statistics, until I expressed it to my wife once. Then she proceeded to list all of the women she personally knows who have been assaulted in some way. It was a long list, and those were just the subset who talked to her about it. Clearly that's anecdotal, but it was also eye opening for me personally. If you've got a female friend/SO with whom you feel comfortable broaching this topic, and who you trust to tell you the unvarnished truth, you might want to ask.

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2015, 03:51:44 PM »
(...entire conversation about 1/4 or 1/6 women sexually abused...)
Quote
I used to sometimes express some skepticism about those statistics, until I expressed it to my wife once. Then she proceeded to list all of the women she personally knows who have been assaulted in some way. It was a long list, and those were just the subset who talked to her about it. Clearly that's anecdotal, but it was also eye opening for me personally. If you've got a female friend/SO with whom you feel comfortable broaching this topic, and who you trust to tell you the unvarnished truth, you might want to ask.

I'm assuming you're addressing me - I'm a woman. My experiences are the opposite of your wife. Also anecdotal.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 04:11:00 PM by Zikoris »

lizzie

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2015, 03:57:16 PM »
I'm assuming you're addressing me - I'm a woman. My experiences are the opposite of your wife. Also anecdotal.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What kind of experience is the opposite of having many friends/acquaintances that have told you about being assaulted? Having lots of friends who have affirmatively told you that they've never been assaulted?

Zikoris

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2015, 04:07:12 PM »
I'm assuming you're addressing me - I'm a woman. My experiences are the opposite of your wife. Also anecdotal.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What kind of experience is the opposite of having many friends/acquaintances that have told you about being assaulted? Having lots of friends who have affirmatively told you that they've never been assaulted?

He told me "Ask a woman what she thinks", not realizing I am, in fact, a woman. But yes, you're correct in your interpretation.

boy_bye

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2015, 04:07:31 PM »
Guys!  Don't take it personally when people talk about things that some men to do some women.

If I were to say "Some men have facial hair" nobody would take it to mean I was talking about them unless they in fact have facial hair.  I am certainly not implying that all men have facial hair, or should , or some of it is unreported facial hair or whatever.  I am implying nothing other than that it is a fact.

Now if I say "Some men are sick assholes who rape women" then all of a sudden we get people who think I am talking about them.  'But I don't rape women, stop tarring me with that brush!".  Of course, lots of men (myself included) would never, ever do such a thing.  That does not mean it doesn't happen, and that some sick bastards do it sometimes or even often.

Instead of nitpicking the stats in a misguided attempt at defending our honor or whatever, how about we just focus our energy on outing the sick assholes and finding ways to make them stop committing rape (reported or unreported).

+1

+2

So often, when women express hurtful gender-based things that happen to them (from incidental all the way up to violent), the response is "Well, not all men are like that!"

But that's not the point. The point is that there are enough men who are like that, that almost every woman has some kind of horror story to report.

It's not about what percentage of men are behaving this way. It's about the fact that so many women experience the other end of it.

Allen

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #91 on: January 29, 2015, 04:12:38 PM »
Oh god I have so many I could scream.  My small start up male dominated company has meted me out everything from blatant groping/ass slapping to the men signing for the office supplies and leaving them on my desk to put away.  I'm one of only two woman in my company and I'm an engineer...which apparently also means secretary. But my all time FAVORITE is below. Context, husband deployed, hail storm, massive damage, new roof needed 2 weeks after said deployment started, this was 5ish years ago.

Contractor:  So, I took a look at the roof, and yea, it's pretty bad, now, lets talk price. ***sneaky ninja slides me a quote
Me:  Ok thanks for taking a look, I have 5 other contractors coming out over the next two days to give me estimates, I'll give you a call when I have everything in hand
Contractor:  NO ONE is going to beat me in price!  AND if you sign TODAY, I'll knock 500 off the quote price.
Me: No, I'm sorry I don't sign anything without getting multiple opinions.
Contractor:  Where is your husband?
Me: (not wanting to say he's deployed) He's at work.
Contractor:  Then I will wait outside until he comes home
Me: Why?  I'm the one who called you out...like I honestly was confused why he was asking, I had NO clue what he wanted to talk to my husband for.
Contractor:  Because he's the man of the house and only his opinion matters, especially with household finances.
Me: HAHAHAHAHAHA (literally I laughed so hard I couldn't catch my breath)  You MUST be kidding me?  My husband doesn't even know how much he gets paid, never mind anything to do with the finances
Contractor:  *bright red in the face*  I MUST speak with the MAN of the house, your opinion on my bid is worthless to me
Me: Get out
Contractor: No
Me: No, really I'm not kidding, get the fuck out of my house, and off my property
Contract: No (he was at that moment trying to tower me down and intimidate me by getting in my face with his fists clenched)
Me:  You realize we are in the state of CO and I have enough guns in this house to arm a small militia, guns that I am VERY capable of operating...if you do not leave my property at this moment I am going to consider you a trespasser and call the police, if you attempt to approach me after that moment  I WILL use lethal force.
Contractor: *grabs his shit*  If the MAN of the house was here we'd be doing business.
Me:  If the man of the house was here and heard the shit you just pulled, you would be going out on a stretcher, be THANKFUL the man of the house isn't here.  I told my husband that night and he went BALLISTIC

Called the company hotline to report this shit, figuring the owner needs to know about this joker...turns out he WAS the owner and his son about had a stroke when I talked to him about it.  Lots of bad yelp google etc reviews occurred...and of course, he was 2 grand higher then the next bid.

I wish I could buy you a beer. /thumbsup

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #92 on: January 29, 2015, 04:13:50 PM »
Guys!  Don't take it personally when people talk about things that some men to do some women.

If I were to say "Some men have facial hair" nobody would take it to mean I was talking about them unless they in fact have facial hair.  I am certainly not implying that all men have facial hair, or should , or some of it is unreported facial hair or whatever.  I am implying nothing other than that it is a fact.

Now if I say "Some men are sick assholes who rape women" then all of a sudden we get people who think I am talking about them.  'But I don't rape women, stop tarring me with that brush!".  Of course, lots of men (myself included) would never, ever do such a thing.  That does not mean it doesn't happen, and that some sick bastards do it sometimes or even often.

Instead of nitpicking the stats in a misguided attempt at defending our honor or whatever, how about we just focus our energy on outing the sick assholes and finding ways to make them stop committing rape (reported or unreported).

+1

+2

So often, when women express hurtful gender-based things that happen to them (from incidental all the way up to violent), the response is "Well, not all men are like that!"

But that's not the point. The point is that there are enough men who are like that, that almost every woman has some kind of horror story to report.

It's not about what percentage of men are behaving this way. It's about the fact that so many women experience the other end of it.
And they are not being stopped the first time, partly because of the attitude of our culture.  A predominate researcher into rape found that in college the average rapist had already raped six times.  Think about that, these are people under 22, some as young 18 and they are averaging 6 rapes.

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2015, 04:17:42 PM »
I'm assuming you're addressing me - I'm a woman. My experiences are the opposite of your wife. Also anecdotal.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What kind of experience is the opposite of having many friends/acquaintances that have told you about being assaulted? Having lots of friends who have affirmatively told you that they've never been assaulted?

He told me "Ask a woman what she thinks", not realizing I am, in fact, a woman. But yes, you're correct in your interpretation.
You are also in a different country, in which I don't know the stats in assault and not everyone talks about it.  I did not go tell my coworkers when I walked into work and three teenage boys decided to cat call me, and then when I did not respond positively two started chasing me screaming more, now violent obscenities.  You may have never been in a situation where you were unsafe or assaulted, but many women in US and other countries have. 

cavewoman

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2015, 04:42:29 PM »
For the most part, I am very impressed with this conversation.

My boyfriend frequently gets incredulous looks when he says he's not into sports.  I try to hold my tongue (I'm a loud-mouth), because I think it bothers me more than him.

We met as outdoor adventure guides (canyoning), and for one season we were the only two guides - so always paired up together.  Similar to the husband with the fridge-wielding wife, people were ridiculous to me about assisting them, mostly up this one particular section.  But I really got a kick out of surprising people, so I was always in that position.  Some would totally refuse my help, and I'd oblige, only stepping in to prevent them from falling and hurting themselves. 

Also I loved at the end of our longest and hardest trip, when people would need to lighten their load for the long uphill hike out.  It was more about challenging myself than anyone's sexist or not perceptions of me, but if it gave them pause in that regard too, all the better.

trailrated

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #95 on: January 29, 2015, 05:15:43 PM »
So this happened at a bar(s) in San Francisco about 3 years ago. I had a bunch of friends that moved out there after college and we were out celebrating for someone's bday. Some 40 year old guy approached me asking if he could buy me a drink. I told him "I am not gay, but thanks for the offer, I'm good". Needless to say things escalated over the next hour and a half or so  with him trying to ask the same thing about 10 more times and following me to the next 3 bars (all within walking distance) to the point where I was seriously contemplating hitting this person.

I have never felt so uncomfortable in my entire life
-He never tried to force me to do anything
-He never physically touched me in any way

I guess in a way it was quite the learning experience in what a lot of women have to deal with. If a woman was to tell me a similar story about a guy approaching them while they are out drinking before this happened, I would most likely have thought... ohhh that sucks but it's not that big of a deal because of the two bullet points mentioned prior. But after that incident it was pretty eye opening.

Gin1984

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #96 on: January 29, 2015, 05:28:57 PM »
So this happened at a bar(s) in San Francisco about 3 years ago. I had a bunch of friends that moved out there after college and we were out celebrating for someone's bday. Some 40 year old guy approached me asking if he could buy me a drink. I told him "I am not gay, but thanks for the offer, I'm good". Needless to say things escalated over the next hour and a half or so  with him trying to ask the same thing about 10 more times and following me to the next 3 bars (all within walking distance) to the point where I was seriously contemplating hitting this person.

I have never felt so uncomfortable in my entire life
-He never tried to force me to do anything
-He never physically touched me in any way

I guess in a way it was quite the learning experience in what a lot of women have to deal with. If a woman was to tell me a similar story about a guy approaching them while they are out drinking before this happened, I would most likely have thought... ohhh that sucks but it's not that big of a deal because of the two bullet points mentioned prior. But after that incident it was pretty eye opening.
Now assume the guy was 100lb bigger and a foot or so taller and that it was unlikely that hitting him would do anything other than ticking him off, unless you were lucky. Even more fun, huh?

trailrated

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2015, 05:34:41 PM »
So this happened at a bar(s) in San Francisco about 3 years ago. I had a bunch of friends that moved out there after college and we were out celebrating for someone's bday. Some 40 year old guy approached me asking if he could buy me a drink. I told him "I am not gay, but thanks for the offer, I'm good". Needless to say things escalated over the next hour and a half or so  with him trying to ask the same thing about 10 more times and following me to the next 3 bars (all within walking distance) to the point where I was seriously contemplating hitting this person.

I have never felt so uncomfortable in my entire life
-He never tried to force me to do anything
-He never physically touched me in any way

I guess in a way it was quite the learning experience in what a lot of women have to deal with. If a woman was to tell me a similar story about a guy approaching them while they are out drinking before this happened, I would most likely have thought... ohhh that sucks but it's not that big of a deal because of the two bullet points mentioned prior. But after that incident it was pretty eye opening.
Now assume the guy was 100lb bigger and a foot or so taller and that it was unlikely that hitting him would do anything other than ticking him off, unless you were lucky. Even more fun, huh?

This is why I love this forum, I think I have things figured out in my own little world view then a comment like this just crushes it. Wow,  and thank you for the comment Gin1984

SisterX

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2015, 05:57:16 PM »
- the fact that 25% of women in America have been sexually assaulted

I take issue with calling this a "fact" based on scholarly criticism of the original study.  While sexual assault of any person is almost always inherently sexist (unless your assaulter is some kind of pansexual where they would literally assault any person with equal probability) because the victim is targeted because of their sex, this is a common figure you hear often that's just not reliable.

This is based old data gathered by Mary Koss in 1985 and for Ms. Magazine, so right away we're in decades old data and a sample that probably isn't truly random with regard to the entire female population.  Christina Hoff Sommers has criticized this survey because of the following question:  Have you had sexual intercourse you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?

Sommers explains what is wrong with that question better than I ever could, but I will attempt to paraphrase.  Essentially the question is flawed in its design.  Clearly it's intended to measure instances of chemically induced rape, but it allows for the ambiguity of having a consensual sexual encounter that was later regretted, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy that the misuse of recreational drugs or alcohol lead to sexual encounters one later regrets.

Additionally only 27% of the women Koss reported as victims identified themselves as rape victims in their responses.  It's true that there are more forms of sexual assault then rape, but this should give one pause to consider the data collection and reporting here is highly questionable.  Considering this was for a magazine and citing something that isn't exciting or shocking will not sell issues, Koff had incredible incentive to overstate.

Sommers' criticism and retabulation of the data places the assault figure closer to 1 in 14, which has some rough parity with estimates that about 5 or 6 percent of men are rapists (and a good number of them tend to be serial rapists, so the female victimization rate should be a little larger than the rate of male rapists assuming heterosexual rape is the bulk of crimes committed).  The question then becomes whose methodology do you believe?

While I don't think any reasonable person male or female should dismiss the experiences reported by the respondents, it's prudent to be very skeptical of the 1 in 4 citation.

You said yourself that some of the murkiness comes from differing opinions on what constitutes sexual assault.  Sommers' definition seems very limited to only rape, to me.
Fun fact: when I was in my early twenties I liked to go clubbing with a group of friends.  One night we were out and some random guy (I could not tell who, in the crowd) took advantage of anonymity to actually grab/finger my crotch through my jeans.  I still feel freaked out when I think of it, roughly a decade later.  Would you consider that a sexual assault?  Or not?  Because frankly, if you DO consider that sort of thing sexual assault (and I do--having some stranger grab at my crotch simply because he could is an assault on my bodily integrity), then I'd think that the 1 in 4 number is actually seriously low, especially since that sort of behavior is not in the least restricted to clubbing/bar hopping, but happens anywhere there are large crowds (sporting events, concerts), and particularly when the perpetrator can reasonably assume that the woman he's assaulting has had a drink.  (On that particular night, I was the DD and so had not.)

To satisfy the "not all men do that" crowd on here, the incident above did also show me how amazing my friends are.  I told the friend whom I'd known the longest, who happens to be male.  He immediately asked who'd done it and when I said I couldn't identify the person he told the rest of the group that things were getting too dangerous in there and got us all out.  There's a reason he's one of my best friends.  <3
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:14:01 PM by SisterX »

3okirb

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Re: Sexist things that drive me crazy
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2015, 06:20:29 PM »
Yeah, it's a little crazy. On the plus side, if you're with your spouse, this is a great excuse to say during a night out: "sorry honey, can't change little Johnny today; there are no changing stations in the men's room. Your turn!"

Do that all the time :)  Sometimes it's tempting to say it even when there is one.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!