Author Topic: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?  (Read 10901 times)

Mr Dorothy Dollar

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2016, 04:32:23 PM »


Does she get a pass for being the only Presidential candidate to be under FBI investigation as well?  Talk about a lack of morals and ethics, the lady should be in prison, not out campaigning to be our President.

This whole thread is about minorities. Nothing you stated deals with that. Move on.

You said Hillary gets a pass, so I wanted to get your take on that. 
I'm certainly not a racist or bigot, and I'm a Trump supporter.  I think it's ludicrous to judge someone passed primarily on who they support in the election, without knowing why they support them, which is obviously what the original poster was doing.

To answer your question, no, Hillary does not get a pass on being under investigation. However, she is innocent until proven guilty. In my eyes, she is a criminal once she is a criminal, not before conviction. Your viewpoint on throwing out the whole justice system condemning a person before a finding by jury or judge says a bit about you. I think it is ludicrous to judge someone based on accusations. By your logic, I can accuse you of being anything (criminal, racist, bigot, a paid shill), therefore you are. As an aside, most racist and bigots do not think they are (e.g., racist grandpa).

You should love this move, I got it from Trump - I doubled down. I doubled down on judging people that support Trump. OP might have just thought they were bigoted/racist. I logically argue that Trump supporters are vile. Seriously, see my other posts. The argument summarized is unequal treatment under the law is always vile. Trump supports unequal treatment. Therefore Trump is vile. Trump supporters value something over equal treatment under the law for minorities which is vile. (if you need details on the steps read the other posts)

I took the time to honestly and thoughtfully answer your question. So my question to you is what do you value more than equal treatment under the law for minorities? I cannot wait to see what is more important than equal treatment under the law for your fellow Americans.

libertarian4321

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2016, 05:50:56 PM »

I took the time to honestly and thoughtfully answer your question. So my question to you is what do you value more than equal treatment under the law for minorities? I cannot wait to see what is more important than equal treatment under the law for your fellow Americans.

I would say to you that NONE of the candidates favors treating everyone equally under the law.  Government treats people differently by it's very nature, in a wide variety of ways.  Government is always manipulating people, trying to pick winners and losers, favored groups and unfavored.

I would also posit that someone who calls someone he doesn't even know "vile" merely because of the political candidate he supports probably needs to look in the mirror.  He might see a vile, unpleasant, and judgmental (the very thing he claims to rail against) person staring back at him...

I don't judge people on a whole based on something as trivial as skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or political preference, because to do so would make me a vile individual.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2016, 08:34:23 PM »

I took the time to honestly and thoughtfully answer your question. So my question to you is what do you value more than equal treatment under the law for minorities? I cannot wait to see what is more important than equal treatment under the law for your fellow Americans.

I would say to you that NONE of the candidates favors treating everyone equally under the law.  Government treats people differently by it's very nature, in a wide variety of ways.  Government is always manipulating people, trying to pick winners and losers, favored groups and unfavored.

I would also posit that someone who calls someone he doesn't even know "vile" merely because of the political candidate he supports probably needs to look in the mirror.  He might see a vile, unpleasant, and judgmental (the very thing he claims to rail against) person staring back at him...

I don't judge people on a whole based on something as trivial as skin color, religion, sexual orientation, or political preference, because to do so would make me a vile individual.

Thank you Libertarian4321 for trying to get this thread back on the rails. I was beginning to think people might suggest that those vile people with Trump signs should be executed by drone without a trial. :D

Mr Dorothy Dollar

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2016, 09:16:29 PM »
So you think it's appropriate to imply to your neighbor that your other neighbors are racist?


Didn't the neighbors already imply they are to a degree vile by supporting Trump?

Your first response on this thread was good, then you drove off the rails.

No, a "Trump" sign does not imply people are "vile or racist."

As I said in my previous post, there are minority folks who support Trump.  Those folks may be Trump supporters, but they are good people, the kind of people most of us would love to have as neighbors.  They are NOT "vile" just because they support Trump.  They both give tons of time to charity (and would give money, if they had any to give).  The guy is the type who volunteers to mow the lawn of older folks on his block. 

He's not "vile" and he's for damned sure not racist.

He just doesn't subscribe to your liberal political views.  Or my Libertarian political views.  But I would never call a person "vile" just because he doesn't agree with me on politics or religion. 

You might want to consider taking a less judgmental stance yourself. 

Get to know people before you decide to hate them...

BTW, the only "Trump" sign on my street is on the lawn of a Hispanic (Mexican American) family.  They are also a good people and good neighbors.
I am happy you liked my first post.

Pretty fitting a third party interloper is libertarian (hope you find it funny as it is meant to be). Your antidotal example is not persuasive as neither being a race nor charity time determines racist or bigoted views. Further, being vile does not prevent the person from being a saint in other aspects (church going grandma that raises money for breast cancer can still go picket with a "gays burn in Heck" sign.). My argument is not centered on any of those ancillary things. Those ancillary things are how to be a saint in those other aspects. Normally being a different political affiliation does not raise to the vile level because it is not an attack on equal treatment under the law. However, this election it is vile to support Trump because he supports unequal treatment under the law. The example I have cited throughout, is his campaign promise to go after marriage equality. 

Who said that I hate these vile people? Hate the sin, not the sinner.

As to your other comment dismissing the government for always providing unequal treatment under the law, this discussion is about immutable characteristics (race, gender, orientation, ect.), not taxing for different activities, awarding government contracts, or picking winners and losers of industry. It seemed to be off point.

pudding

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2016, 10:18:03 PM »
I was in the sauna a while back here in Canada and the conversation turned to trump.
Two guys in there were black and from the states and one of them was a big Trump fan. If the ones with the Trump signs are Filipino and another Mexican as I think you said in an earlier post, isn't it a non race issue... ( I was going to say it's not so black and white.... but I thought I'd better not ;)   

matchewed

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2016, 04:50:42 AM »
I was in the sauna a while back here in Canada and the conversation turned to trump.
Two guys in there were black and from the states and one of them was a big Trump fan. If the ones with the Trump signs are Filipino and another Mexican as I think you said in an earlier post, isn't it a non race issue... ( I was going to say it's not so black and white.... but I thought I'd better not ;)

The sources of racism don't have to be only from white people. But I'm of the belief that just because you support a candidate it doesn't mean you believe everything they say.

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2016, 07:46:48 AM »
I didn't express myself very well, I guess. I perceive the Trump people, all of whom are older and white, to possibly be racist. I don't know why they not only support Trump, but went so far as to put up a sign. I just wanted a way to say that I'm an ally, similar to how LGBTQ allies put equal signs ot rainbow stuff (stickers, flags, etc), which I have done as well. I am friendly to neighbors, including literally giving some of them honey from our bees, and shoveling their sidewalks on occasion. I also know that there can be people who are pleasant enough as neighbors but when they feel someone might be on "their" side, they express racist attitudes. This makes me wonder if tge neighbors who have Trump signs put them up as a subtle "racist-friendly" sign. Instead of channeling my feelings of anger and hopelessness at those neighbors, I wanted to do something nice that says-when they go low, we go high, to borrow from Michelle Obama. And no, a potluck/bbq is about the most awkward thing I can think of, especially for this introvert.

Anyway, I guess there's nothing for me to do other than what I already am doing. I'm sorry I even brought it up.

ooeei

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2016, 09:52:05 AM »
Instead of channeling my feelings of anger and hopelessness at those neighbors, I wanted to do something nice that says-when they go low, we go high, to borrow from Michelle Obama.

And implying your other neighbors are racist because of their political leanings is taking the high road?

Warlord1986

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2016, 10:22:45 AM »
I didn't express myself very well, I guess. I perceive the Trump people, all of whom are older and white, to possibly be racist. I don't know why they not only support Trump, but went so far as to put up a sign...


They went so far as to put a sign for the candidate they support? Oh, the humanity! How could they go so far as to put out a sign?

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...I also know that there can be people who are pleasant enough as neighbors but when they feel someone might be on "their" side, they express racist attitudes. This makes me wonder if tge neighbors who have Trump signs put them up as a subtle "racist-friendly" sign.

I'm having trouble following your line of thought. Some people are racist, so Trump signs are now advertisements of personal racism? What.

Just to be clear, I think Trump is God-awful and a national embarrassment. But people can put out signs for any candidate they choose. Freedom of speech and all that. And labeling someone who disagrees with you as racist without any proof isn't the high road. It's just you shitting on someone for daring to express an opinion contrary to your own so you can feel smug and superior. Which is pretty low.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2016, 10:32:46 AM »
So you think it's appropriate to imply to your neighbor that your other neighbors are racist?


Didn't the neighbors already imply they are to a degree vile by supporting Trump?

Your first response on this thread was good, then you drove off the rails.

No, a "Trump" sign does not imply people are "vile or racist."

As I said in my previous post, there are minority folks who support Trump.  Those folks may be Trump supporters, but they are good people, the kind of people most of us would love to have as neighbors.  They are NOT "vile" just because they support Trump.  They both give tons of time to charity (and would give money, if they had any to give).  The guy is the type who volunteers to mow the lawn of older folks on his block. 

He's not "vile" and he's for damned sure not racist.

He just doesn't subscribe to your liberal political views.  Or my Libertarian political views.  But I would never call a person "vile" just because he doesn't agree with me on politics or religion. 

You might want to consider taking a less judgmental stance yourself. 

Get to know people before you decide to hate them...

BTW, the only "Trump" sign on my street is on the lawn of a Hispanic (Mexican American) family.  They are also a good people and good neighbors.
I am happy you liked my first post.

Pretty fitting a third party interloper is libertarian (hope you find it funny as it is meant to be). Your antidotal example is not persuasive as neither being a race nor charity time determines racist or bigoted views. Further, being vile does not prevent the person from being a saint in other aspects (church going grandma that raises money for breast cancer can still go picket with a "gays burn in Heck" sign.). My argument is not centered on any of those ancillary things. Those ancillary things are how to be a saint in those other aspects. Normally being a different political affiliation does not raise to the vile level because it is not an attack on equal treatment under the law. However, this election it is vile to support Trump because he supports unequal treatment under the law. The example I have cited throughout, is his campaign promise to go after marriage equality. 

Who said that I hate these vile people? Hate the sin, not the sinner.

As to your other comment dismissing the government for always providing unequal treatment under the law, this discussion is about immutable characteristics (race, gender, orientation, ect.), not taxing for different activities, awarding government contracts, or picking winners and losers of industry. It seemed to be off point.

Woah, slow your roll my friend. You're outraged that the world treats some people differently, because of some poorly understood mechanism of nature or nurture. I get that. It is outrageous, and unfair, and astonishing.  It's made me tremble in rage, and flinch away in fear. My anger can make me disruptive, blunt, and occasionally callous. But by vilifying an entire group based on political leanings, is lowering yourself to the same level. I would advise against it.

I worked inside DADT for almost 10 years. The day it ended was one of the best days of my life. I cried. My friends cried for me. Would you call them vile for having worked inside a discriminatory system? Am I?

L8_apex

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2016, 10:51:53 AM »
OP, seems like what you're doing is "virtue signaling". 

And I'm just going to have to disagree with you on the whole premise of this as I don't see what Trump is doing as "racist".  He's a nationalist as opposed to a globalist.  I'd suggest you look at his statements through that premise and ask yourself if what he's proposing is racist, or if that's the mainstream media's way of slanting his positions/statements.  (My premise is that the MSM is all pro-Hillary and anti-Trump, based on plenty of recent revelations.  Thus, one has to be very careful about believing what the media says.)


MayDay

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2016, 11:31:21 AM »
It's weird to leave notes.

But I'm 100% that Trump sign = racist/sexist/xenophobic.

That's generally the opinion of HRC and third party voters alike, in my area. 

hoosier

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2016, 11:38:02 AM »

But I'm 100% that Trump sign = racist/sexist/xenophobic.



Wow. 

Chris22

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2016, 11:47:00 AM »
I fear that leftists will increasingly use this tactic of shaming people into thinking a vote for a different candidate is immoral and unethical.  They were already trying to insinuate it with the "voting against Obama?  Why, you hate blacks?" and "vote against Hillary? Why you hate women?" but Trump has made it easy on them to take it to another level by saying things in a very blunt, unsophisticated way that can be spun as racist/sexist/homophobic (sometimes no spin needed, granted). 

Even if you support the current Dem candidate over the current Right/3rd party candidate, this move to paint only one candidate as a morally acceptable choice should frighten everyone. 

rockstache

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2016, 11:53:18 AM »

But I'm 100% that Trump sign = racist/sexist/xenophobic.



Wow.

+1

I'm 100% that TRUMP = racist/sexist/xenophobic. Trump sign...not so much.

*Never even considered voting for him btw. I feel like I have to say that in order to be taken seriously here.

hoosier

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2016, 12:21:19 PM »
I perceive the Trump people, all of whom are older and white, to possibly be racist.

prejudice
noun  prej·u·dice \ˈpre-jə-dəs\
a (1) :  preconceived judgment or opinion (2) :  an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge




golden1

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
When I see a Trump sign in my neighborhood, I'll admit that I feel a bit of sadness and bewilderment.  I don't judge that person as "vile" or "racist/sexist etc", but I do have to wonder at the thought process that would allow someone to minimize what seem to be his very obvious narcissism, lack of basic decency, and his alienating statements to Islamic Americans, the disabled, women, mexicans etc....  It would be one thing to support him, but to display proudly a sign on your lawn or your car is difficult for me to understand on an emotional level.  I can only imagine that they hate the other candidate so much, or there is some wedge issue that makes everything else he says not as important, but I find it hard to understand what is more important than treating the people you plan to govern with basic respect.  I mean, if my son called another girl a "bitch", I would ground him for a year.  But people put signs on their cars or wear t-shirts that say "Trump the bitch".  It is just a mental space I can't imagine inhabiting. 

vern

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2016, 02:24:24 PM »

Kris

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2016, 03:28:57 PM »
When I see a Trump sign in my neighborhood, I'll admit that I feel a bit of sadness and bewilderment.  I don't judge that person as "vile" or "racist/sexist etc", but I do have to wonder at the thought process that would allow someone to minimize what seem to be his very obvious narcissism, lack of basic decency, and his alienating statements to Islamic Americans, the disabled, women, mexicans etc....  It would be one thing to support him, but to display proudly a sign on your lawn or your car is difficult for me to understand on an emotional level.  I can only imagine that they hate the other candidate so much, or there is some wedge issue that makes everything else he says not as important, but I find it hard to understand what is more important than treating the people you plan to govern with basic respect.  I mean, if my son called another girl a "bitch", I would ground him for a year.  But people put signs on their cars or wear t-shirts that say "Trump the bitch".  It is just a mental space I can't imagine inhabiting.

I agree.

zoltani

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2016, 04:21:45 PM »
"In any foreseeable future there are going to be thousands and thousands of people who detest and abominate Negroes, communists, Russians, Chinese, Jews, Catholics, beatniks, homosexuals, and "dope-fiends." These hatreds are not going to be healed, but only inflamed, by insulting those who feel them, and the abusive labels with which we plaster them—squares, fascists, rightists, know-nothings—may well become the proud badges and symbols around which they will rally and consolidate themselves. Nor will it do to confront the opposition in public with polite and nonviolent sit-ins and demonstrations, while boosting our collective ego by insulting them in private. If we want justice for minorities and cooled wars with our natural enemies, whether human or non-human, we must first come to terms with the minority and the enemy in ourselves and in our own hearts, for the rascal is there as much as anywhere in the "external" world—-especially when you realize that the world outside your skin is as much yourself as the world inside. For want of this awareness, no one can be more belligerent than a pacifist on the rampage, or more militantly nationalistic than an anti-imperialist."

Alan Watts

hoping2retire35

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2016, 02:49:24 PM »
I thought I had, ehm, 'washed my hands' of this election. Looks like I am going to have to find a Trump sign to put in front of my house...


Btw, has someone reported Northwestie for the reply #29 yet? I am not a 'reporter' but that one got me close.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:51:05 PM by hoping2retire35 »

Abe

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2016, 10:01:51 PM »
1) just because someone is not white doesn't mean they aren't racist. I know plenty of people of my ethnicity that are super racist.
2) just because someone supports a blow-hard like trump doesn't mean they are racist. There are plenty of non- racist reasons people may support his BS.

Don't worry about your neighbors and the seasonal political nonsense. demonstrate your ideals through actions outside of politics and they will see your heart.

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2016, 07:42:04 AM »
http://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13286498/donald-trump-voters-race-economic-anxiety

I realize both that Trump supporters may not be such for racist reasons, and that people can be racist regardless of their actual race. However, Trump signs make me FEEL like there is a reasonable possibility that the owner might be racist against people of color.

And this is another article that speaks to my feelings:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_581b352ee4b0cee6c6d13287?

And finally, my intention was not to be a jerk to the Trump neighbors even if I believe there's a decent possibility they are supporting Trump for racist reasons. I'm not going to apologize for being against racism, or a candidate who has repeatedly expressed racist views. And I'm not going to think maybe I'm crazy for entertaining the possibility that the Trump neighbors are racist. I might put a Love Trumps Hate sign in my window, because that seems like the best way I can express my sentiments.



Warlord1986

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2016, 09:07:17 AM »
http://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13286498/donald-trump-voters-race-economic-anxiety

I realize both that Trump supporters may not be such for racist reasons, and that people can be racist regardless of their actual race. However, Trump signs make me FEEL like there is a reasonable possibility that the owner might be racist against people of color.

Your feelings =/= fact. How you feel about political signs is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not those signs are racist.

Quote
And this is another article that speaks to my feelings:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_581b352ee4b0cee6c6d13287?

Lol, the Huff Post.

Quote
And finally, my intention was not to be a jerk to the Trump neighbors even if I believe there's a decent possibility they are supporting Trump for racist reasons. I'm not going to apologize for being against racism, or a candidate who has repeatedly expressed racist views. And I'm not going to think maybe I'm crazy for entertaining the possibility that the Trump neighbors are racist. I might put a Love Trumps Hate sign in my window, because that seems like the best way I can express my sentiments.

Wow. Nobody told you to apologize for being against racism or racists. They told you that you have no way of knowing if your neighbors are racist or not. Your 'feelings' and 'beliefs' that your Trump-voting neighbors are racists are not fact. This has been explained to you multiple times.

I'm out. This isn't even about whether or not your neighbors are racist. This is just you looking for a way to feel good about yourself. If putting a sign in your window is all it takes to boost your ego, go for it.

zoltani

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2016, 09:21:06 AM »
OP you need to look within yourself. You may not think you are racist, but you certainly seem prejudice. If us white folks can have honest conversations about race it's a good start. What are your prejudices and where did they come from? I think some deep understanding of this combined with honest conversations about it with people of color can do a lot more than pretending they don't exist within you. We all have prejudices, ignoring them or pointing fingers at others only exacerbates the current issues we have in our culture.

ariapluscat

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2016, 10:29:25 AM »
if you're an introvert, you might like doing an election night watch party, maybe a sign like 'left or anti racist election watch night, right here, 7pm!' or something. that might be open to folks who don't like hillary but still don't like racism and/or trump. as a fellow introvert it can be helpful to do large group events around a shared interest or topic so that if there's quiet in conversation, there's something else in the background.

i agree going door to door or giving out fliers is weird and could be seen as patronizing.

maybe something cute and humorous the next time you are giving away honey, like 'obama was my honey' or 'white house HONEY ale' as like a little label on the honey jar to show a little lowkey support for folks. that doesn't involve talking to ppl or much more than a 'ahaha racism is bad. this election has been tough huh?' explanation.

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2016, 01:50:02 PM »
OP you need to look within yourself. You may not think you are racist, but you certainly seem prejudice. If us white folks can have honest conversations about race it's a good start. What are your prejudices and where did they come from? I think some deep understanding of this combined with honest conversations about it with people of color can do a lot more than pretending they don't exist within you. We all have prejudices, ignoring them or pointing fingers at others only exacerbates the current issues we have in our culture.

Who said I was white? Across my life, I have had a changing understanding of racial identity, starting in elementary school when I considered myself "half black" because my dad pretty clearly looks black. Later, having a better understanding of history and having met more of my dad's side of the family I would guess he's actually a mix of African, European and possibly Mayan ancestry. Certainly in Antebellum South I would fall under the "one drop" rule and be classified as Negro. Despite having an appearance that isn't entirely clear one way or the other, I have never considered myself "white". To me, that would feel like ignoring one of my parents, and half my family.

Perhaps that answers your question as to why I seem to be prejudiced-although it wasn't clear to me whether you referred to prejudice against white, conservative people or against racial minorities or what. Our culture is certainly prejudiced in a variety of ways and there is no way to grow up in it without absorbing some of that. I have repeatedly made statements such as "possibility" (not "certainty") and alluded that these things make me feel certain ways. There's no way to know the motivations of each Trump supporter in my neighborhood without going to each door and asking them. As to why I might feel like a bunch of Trump signs are a subtle signal of racism is outlined pretty well in the Vox article so I didn't feel like repeating all of that. The incident that my friend wrote about in the Huffpost article speaks to how there can be a subtle undercurrent of racism that shows itself now and then:

Quote: "As I stood talking with this man with my infant, half-black daughter in my arms, he replied, “Let’s just hope we can get the White House white again!”"

The writer is someone I know IRL, by the way. It's a bit shocking that her relative would say that while she's holding her kid right in front of him, but my husband has similarly experienced this sort of comment by someone who doesn't know who he is married to. Hearing stories like these, I am aware that there are a proportion of people who truly believe that people of color are somehow lesser. They can seem nice, and will never have any kind of difficult conversation with anyone of color, but will put out feelers to other white people who they think might be "on their side". And you know what? It's rare to be able to have a difficult conversation about sensitive topics. If people treat each other OK while thinking racist thoughts, not much will change that. Fine. But when the Trump campaign emboldens all kinds of bigotry, outright, it makes it very difficult to tell what a supporter's views are supporting. Am I assuming the worst? Yes, I am. But if I had an HRC sign in my yard, would they think "of course she's excited for the potential of a woman finally breaking the ultimate glass ceiling!" or would they think "how can you support someone who deleted all the emails and stayed married to a philanderer?" The subtleties are lost.

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2016, 03:29:32 PM »
Another epic thread. The actual racists / bigots / stereotypers are showing themselves.

RangerOne

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #78 on: November 04, 2016, 05:50:29 PM »
Unless you know the people never assume anything. You are assuming two things. One anyone who would put up a Trump sign is racist. I have friends and family who either do support Trump or would pick him over Clinton. The are not ignorant or racist or even white for that matter. Reason for voting for Trump can range from racism, distrust of liberal agenda, strong support for team red no matter what.

Personally I draw some negative conclusions about someone I don't know with a Trump sign or bumper sticker but even as a brown person I don't think I would take it so far as to feel those people were hostile to me or make me feel unwelcome.

The second assumption you are making is that the "minority" neighbors in question feel victimized or uncomfortable with that sign. Who knows they could be voting Trump too. On top of that not everyone of a particular race has strong ties to a non American culture or feels personally attacked by Trump being a prick. A certain percentage of Republican voters be xenophobic assholes isn't new. Most of us are jaded to it.

I am brown half Mexican half white and I generally find Trump signs comical more than offensive. I suppose it will be less funny if he wins.

Libertea

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2016, 10:13:10 PM »
I am a member of an ethnic minority and do not support Hillary OR Trump.  I am not ever "offended" by seeing someone's Trump posters (put up on their own property, per their first amendment rights), though I will grant you that I would not go out of my way to engage them in political conversation or otherwise be "best friends" with them.  However, I have to say that I would find receiving a note like you're suggesting extremely off-putting, and I would probably go out of my way to avoid YOU thereafter.  Those Trump supporters may or may not be racists; I would have no evidence either way if I didn't know them.  And if I came to discover that they are racists, I'd certainly want nothing to do with them.  But to me, a note smearing those people as racists based solely upon their political views would be pretty compelling evidence of the writer's prejudice against them, and I'd find that to be pretty icky too.

Ultimately we can all only be responsible for what WE do and say, and not what our neighbors do and say.  I agree with the people who are suggesting that the best way to show support to your non-white neighbors is by being a good neighbor (and a good person in general) yourself, not by putting others who disagree with you down, ESPECIALLY since there's a good chance you could be wrongly slandering them.  And even if those Trump supporters are indeed racists, it's not YOUR responsibility to apologize for their idiocy. Rather than going out of your way to divide the neighborhood, a better way to fight prejudice is by not emulating it.  So I agree with the ideas about reaching out to your neighbors in a positive way that brings people together.  It doesn't have to be a formal event.  You could just go by to introduce yourself and meet them one-on-one.

FWIW, as a woman, I'm excited about the possibility of a female president too, for exactly the reason you gave.  I just wish we had a specific female candidate whom I could be excited about actually voting for. :-/

Proud Foot

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2016, 10:49:15 AM »
Do the people who live in this house always put up a yard sign for elections? More specifically is it always the Republican candidate? If so I might think they were the type to always vote and support the candidate put forward by the Republican party, regardless of how they feel about the actual candidate.

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2016, 09:17:59 PM »

I am brown half Mexican half white and I generally find Trump signs comical more than offensive. I suppose it will be less funny if he wins.

Yeah, a lot less funny.

On the plus side, putting up a safety pin sign/flag is now a thing so problem solved. One street over had a Trump house and next door was a big rainbow flag so maybe I will go introduce myself out of the blue. Normally I make neighborly gestures to the houses nearby mine (next door, maybe a door over from that, and across the street) and won't change that. My intention was always to signal welcome to some who may be feeling threatened, not to disparage those I disagree with. There are a number of other threads that tackle some of these topics so it's not worth repeating ad nauseum here.

vern

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Metric Mouse

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2016, 11:30:34 PM »
Well, now you can pin a safety  pin to their  door instead of a long note.

Indexer

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2016, 11:42:26 PM »
I know plenty of Trump supporters, and I wouldn't call any of them racist. I personally see Trump as racist, but they don't see him that way. If they did they wouldn't vote for him.

Keep in mind the media cried wolf that Romney was racist, Bush was racist, Bush Sr. was racist, Reagan was racist....  Each one of them made a comment somewhere, which could be spun just right to make it appear they were racist.

Now, when an actual racist person comes along, and constantly makes racist comments... Republicans think he is just misunderstood, and the "Liberal Media" wants to paint their candidate as a racist just like they do every 4 years.

As a matter of fact, I have Trump supporters in my facebook feed, and there was a meme going around for awhile that said, "Trump has been in the national spotlight for 30 years, but he was never accused of being racist until he ran for president."  Obviously, he was called out many times in the past, but they aren't going to listen to that.

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2016, 07:19:25 PM »
Well, now you can pin a safety  pin to their  door instead of a long note.

What is this supposed to even mean? This is just a snarky response that doesn't move anything forward.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2016, 09:17:36 PM »
Its become a non verbal sign of solidarity with minorities .
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 09:20:18 PM by Metric Mouse »

RosieTR

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Re: Sensitivity to my non-white neighbors...advice?
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2016, 09:37:25 PM »
Its become a non verbal sign of solidarity with minorities .

I know that.

I meant the way you described it, which seemed snarky and dismissive.