Religion?

[HappyRock]

I always wondered what MMM's religious views were for some reason. I have a pretty good idea but wondered if anyone knew for sure. Does anyone know?

And can any religious person answer this

: Pretty much every single religion conflicts with each other in some way (Different gods, prophets, beliefs, customs)
- If that is the case, would that mean that only one religion is correct, and that other religions are wrong? How can multiple all-powerful gods and individual prophets exist for EACH religion?

It just seems to hard to believe every religion's beliefs can all be correct and exist simultaneously, with no physical evidence of anything over the past 2000 years (for the most part)

Is religion a set of ideas started by people long ago to explain things that science couldn't? Also, are all the creation stories, (for example Adam and Eve/Noah's Arc) metaphors for something else or literal? And if it is literal that would simply make no sense what so ever imo.

(I am not trying to offend or argue, and i am not atheist. just curious about this).

[StashDaddy]

On his podcast, he says he is a huge fan of the "Cosmos" series.  That should tell you about all you need to know...

[ketchup]

I've seen some anti-religion subtleties in some of his blog posts, but he's never directly really said anything on the matter.

[OptimizeOptimism]

Well, my religion is based on South Park and they tell me that Mormonism turns out to be the right answer. Lol. (Sorry if you haven't seen it and don't get the reference.)

If you haven't already read it, I suggest the book American Gods by Neil Gaiman. It's an interesting novelization of this idea of different belief systems co-existing and adapting and dying out as societies adapt. I've heard that there are other novels that have done the same (Discworld, maybe?) if Gaiman isn't your cup of tea.

Can't say much for MMM. Personally, I like that he keeps any kind of theistic bent out of his blog writing, since when someone is giving me advice, looking for/waiting on/working toward/being thankful for supernatural intervention never seems particularly helpful (although I know it's much more psychologically helpful for others).

[Cheddar Stacker]

Religion sneaks it's way into the forum every now and then. My general feeling about MMM's views, and the overall view of the forum is most people here are very logical and value hard facts and numbers much more than they do beliefs and dogma.

Obviously there are exceptions, and maybe my assumption is incorrect. For some evidence though, just search the forum for tithing and you'll see quite a bit of views on both sides.

Personally, the only thing I find alluring about religion is the sense of community that comes along with it. I was raised catholic, but find the religion to be very hypocritical and I haven't been interested for the last 25 years. I can't contribute to a church that has such slanted views on right and wrong.

[Hugh H]

Human invention, regionally dependent.

[Chranstronaut]

Personally, the only thing I find alluring about religion is the sense of community that comes along with it.

This is why I read the forum.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Personally, the only thing I find alluring about religion is the sense of community that comes along with it.

This is why I read the forum.

Yeah, I had the same thought when I wrote that word. It's a different kind of community, but I feel ya.

[Cwadda]

: Pretty much every single religion conflicts with each other in some way (Different gods, prophets, beliefs, customs)
- If that is the case, would that mean that only one religion is correct, and that other religions are wrong? How can multiple all-powerful gods and individual prophets exist for EACH religion?

Religion is a set of ideas that a person holds to be true. I'll say that the Christianity, Judaism, and Islam religions all believe in the same god. Because I identify with Christianity, I'll try to throw some info out there what the bible says on the matter. In the old testament there are stories about people worshiping different gods, so I think the Christian god does acknowledge that other gods can exist whether they're literally other gods/prophets/deities, or metaphorically (i.e. money can become a god).

I can't contribute to a church that has such slanted views on right and wrong.

And I also want to add that Christianity itself branches out into different denominations. For example, I definitely don't believe in having to do good deeds to go to heaven/doing bad things makes you go to hell. This is one of the reasons why I could never identify with Catholicism.

It just seems to hard to believe every religion's beliefs can all be correct and exist simultaneously, with no physical evidence of anything over the past 2000 years (for the most part)

Is religion a set of ideas started by people long ago to explain things that science couldn't? Also, are all the creation stories, (for example Adam and Eve/Noah's Arc) metaphors for something else or literal? And if it is literal that would simply make no sense what so ever imo.

I study geology in college and I've been reading books about historical floods and such. I've actually started to change my views that the Earth was actually created by God such a short time ago. I believe in an "old Earth", created billions of years ago. I think of the story of Noah's Ark more of a metaphor, because a world-scale flood could not have happened based on geological evidence.


Sorry if my thoughts are really scattered!

[galliver]

Whether or not he calls it this, his views largely mesh with a modern form of humanism. A secular belief system based on facts/evidence, valuing human life/experience/society (and through this, preservation of the environment/sustainable practices). I'm sure like all religions and belief systems there are variations and sects, but in the general sense, it applies.

[rocksinmyhead]

I study geology in college and I've been reading books about historical floods and such. I've actually started to change my views that the Earth was actually created by God such a short time ago. I believe in an "old Earth", created billions of years ago. I think of the story of Noah's Ark more of a metaphor, because a world-scale flood could not have happened based on geological evidence.

oh good, I would judge you hard if you claimed to be a geology student AND a Young Earth Creationist :)

my master's thesis used apatite thermochronology as the main technique/data set. if you google apatite (U-Th)/He or really any radiometric dating technique, you find a lot of WEIRD Young Earth shit with people trying to justify/argue why radiometric ages aren't real. just so strange. personally I don't see any conflict between believing in things like evolution and the earth being 4.5 billion years old, and still believing there's a God that's the mover behind these events. but then again I definitely don't take the Bible literally and never have, so it doesn't bother me in that sense.

re. the OP, I find thinking about this stuff super interesting. I love theology. I went to a Catholic university for undergrad, so we had to take three theology classes - the first was about the Christian theological tradition, the second you had more options but they were all about Christianity (I did New Testament), and the third you had a pretty wide range of options... I took a class on Islam in Modern Turkey and we were there for three weeks. it was so cool, and learning about the history of that part of the world and how Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all intersect there was fascinating. also, the similarities between those three religions (basically all believing in the same God, as Cwadda said) was something I hadn't really thought about before.

I was raised Lutheran, and really love the particular congregation I grew up in, but I never really "got" Jesus... he was definitely my least favorite/least well-understood part of the Trinity :) what I eventually figured out about my own religious beliefs is that I basically believe in the God of the Abrahamic faiths (omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent, and on some level incomprehensible to humans... which is where I guess I contradict the Jesus part). I couldn't tell you why I believe in God, I just do, and you couldn't really change my mind, just like I couldn't convince my boyfriend TO believe in God. but any religious beliefs beyond the "God" part seem like pretty much conjecture to me. I don't know why I should believe the Bible and not the Qu'ran, you know? my view is that my belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, and totally good God requires that he/she has SOME reason for everybody believing different shit (including some people not believing in God at all), and no one's going to hell for it. I'm not really worried about what the reason is, I don't think it's possible to know, and I assume I'll find out eventually :)

also, I agree with other people's conjectures on MMM's religious believes. seems more like a humanist to me than anything else.

[Pooperman]

To the title question: no. More generally I view myself as an apatheist: I don't care and houghte or ideas of gods/religions don't impact my life. I also tend to ignore it when I can for those reasons.

[Beric01]

To the title question: no. More generally I view myself as an apatheist: I don't care and houghte or ideas of gods/religions don't impact my life. I also tend to ignore it when I can for those reasons.

This is also generally my perspective, though I would probably call myself agnostic. I generally try to avoid religion.

However, I think religion may have done some good in the past in maintaining a stable society, and for some people some of those benefits may continue today. I most definitely don't take the anti-religion view of some atheists - I think a lot of religious "morals" actually make a lot of sense - albeit for non-religious reasons.

[Simple Abundant Living]

Well, my religion is based on South Park and they tell me that Mormonism turns out to be the right answer.

Mormon.org

:)

[southern granny]

I am Christian down to the marrow in my bones. I tithe to the church and make gifts to charities on top of that.  I leave judgement up to God, and I do my best to live a Christian life.  I have been married to the same man for 40 years.  I'm not perfect, just forgiven.  But I am very happy with my life. I very well may be in the minority, but that doesn't bother me in the least.  I'm sure someone will feel the absolute necessity to make some snide comments about this post, but that won't bother me either. 

[Cwadda]

I study geology in college and I've been reading books about historical floods and such. I've actually started to change my views that the Earth was actually created by God such a short time ago. I believe in an "old Earth", created billions of years ago. I think of the story of Noah's Ark more of a metaphor, because a world-scale flood could not have happened based on geological evidence.

oh good, I would judge you hard if you claimed to be a geology student AND a Young Earth Creationist :)

my master's thesis used apatite thermochronology as the main technique/data set. if you google apatite (U-Th)/He or really any radiometric dating technique, you find a lot of WEIRD Young Earth shit with people trying to justify/argue why radiometric ages aren't real. just so strange. personally I don't see any conflict between believing in things like evolution and the earth being 4.5 billion years old, and still believing there's a God that's the mover behind these events. but then again I definitely don't take the Bible literally and never have, so it doesn't bother me in that sense.

re. the OP, I find thinking about this stuff super interesting. I love theology. I went to a Catholic university for undergrad, so we had to take three theology classes - the first was about the Christian theological tradition, the second you had more options but they were all about Christianity (I did New Testament), and the third you had a pretty wide range of options... I took a class on Islam in Modern Turkey and we were there for three weeks. it was so cool, and learning about the history of that part of the world and how Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all intersect there was fascinating. also, the similarities between those three religions (basically all believing in the same God, as Cwadda said) was something I hadn't really thought about before.

I was raised Lutheran, and really love the particular congregation I grew up in, but I never really "got" Jesus... he was definitely my least favorite/least well-understood part of the Trinity :) what I eventually figured out about my own religious beliefs is that I basically believe in the God of the Abrahamic faiths (omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent, and on some level incomprehensible to humans... which is where I guess I contradict the Jesus part). I couldn't tell you why I believe in God, I just do, and you couldn't really change my mind, just like I couldn't convince my boyfriend TO believe in God. but any religious beliefs beyond the "God" part seem like pretty much conjecture to me. I don't know why I should believe the Bible and not the Qu'ran, you know? my view is that my belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, and totally good God requires that he/she has SOME reason for everybody believing different shit (including some people not believing in God at all), and no one's going to hell for it. I'm not really worried about what the reason is, I don't think it's possible to know, and I assume I'll find out eventually :)

also, I agree with other people's conjectures on MMM's religious believes. seems more like a humanist to me than anything else.

Off topic, but wanna PM me and talk a little bit about your Master's program? I'm set on getting a Master's degree but I've been trying to talk to a lot of folks about MSc, especially in the Geoscience field.

Also, I follow/can relate to what you're saying. I was raised Lutheran, too.

[Beric01]

I am Christian down to the marrow in my bones. I tithe to the church and make gifts to charities on top of that.  I leave judgement up to God, and I do my best to live a Christian life.  I have been married to the same man for 40 years.  I'm not perfect, just forgiven.  But I am very happy with my life. I very well may be in the minority, but that doesn't bother me in the least.  I'm sure someone will feel the absolute necessity to make some snide comments about this post, but that won't bother me either.

Props to you for speaking up! As mentioned I'm agnostic, but I can definitely respect religious people. Personally, I have just as much problem with militant atheists as religious. I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious. Here's a study that shows how much atheists and evangelicals hate each other.

[Emilyngh]

I am an atheist. 

I've gotten the impression from things MMM has said on his blog that he is as well, but this might just be wishful thinking :)

[Hugh H]

I am an atheist. 

I've gotten the impression from things MMM has said on his blog that he is as well, but this might just be wishful thinking :)

He likely is, but just as it is with a lot of politicians, he keeps quiet on this matter as it might not be worth the backlash from those that are and read this blog. That's okay.

[Spartana]

Well, my religion is based on South Park and they tell me that Mormonism turns out to be the right answer. Lol. (Sorry if you haven't seen it and don't get the reference.)

 

And  Cartman is our Prophet:  I'm a perpetual fence sitter - agnostic. Basically have no clue at all.

[Thegoblinchief]

I'm an atheist former Catholic pre-seminarian in a family of devout Catholics. It's interesting.

[PeteD01]

As a monist, I see the dichotomy of atheism/theism as the original sin.
There are social aspects of religion which are intertwined with psychological aspects that work out in most surprising and occasionally astonishingly violent ways.
As for the social aspect, there is something to be said for people to share some common ground however fantastic it is. The psychological aspect of religion is much more pernicious in terms of providing justification/rationalization for personal conduct. It always comes down to finding an external moral standard for the sole reason of relieving one from personal responsibility for one's thoughts and deeds - all the while ignoring that the acceptance of such a standard was a personal choice to start with.

[HappyRock]

As expected, i loved every single answer you guys gave.. thanks for all who responded...

Well, my religion is based on South Park and they tell me that Mormonism turns out to be the right answer. Lol. (Sorry if you haven't seen it and don't get the reference.)

If you haven't already read it, I suggest the book American Gods by Neil Gaiman. It's an interesting novelization of this idea of different belief systems co-existing and adapting and dying out as societies adapt. I've heard that there are other novels that have done the same (Discworld, maybe?) if Gaiman isn't your cup of tea.

Can't say much for MMM. Personally, I like that he keeps any kind of theistic bent out of his blog writing, since when someone is giving me advice, looking for/waiting on/working toward/being thankful for supernatural intervention never seems particularly helpful (although I know it's much more psychologically helpful for others).

Haha I have seen that episode

I heard a lot of good things about that book and will definitely read it soon.

I agree completely... MMM is just perfect at what he does as far as blogging - clear, fun to read, etc.. and I am glad he keeps religion out of things.

Religion sneaks it's way into the forum every now and then. My general feeling about MMM's views, and the overall view of the forum is most people here are very logical and value hard facts and numbers much more than they do beliefs and dogma.

Obviously there are exceptions, and maybe my assumption is incorrect. For some evidence though, just search the forum for tithing and you'll see quite a bit of views on both sides.

Personally, the only thing I find alluring about religion is the sense of community that comes along with it. I was raised catholic, but find the religion to be very hypocritical and I haven't been interested for the last 25 years. I can't contribute to a church that has such slanted views on right and wrong.

Well said, I get the same feeling. I just like thinking about space, religion, science, etc.

On his podcast, he says he is a huge fan of the "Cosmos" series.  That should tell you about all you need to know...

Haha I liked your answer, i didn't hear his podcast, but will soon :). I also love that show. I figured 99% about MMM's views, i just value everyone's ideas. (at least on this forum)

[darkadams00]

A religious perspective (or lack thereof) is neither positive nor negative. To believe in zero, one, or many Gods is an action that occurs in the mind. However, the application of that perspective to shape one's thoughts, decisions, and actions creates the harmony ("community") or friction ("hypocrites") that has occurred throughout our written history, continuing around the world today. If people could just understand exactly what it is they like or dislike, they would find that religion or lack of religion is not usually the root cause. We tend to like things that please us and dislike things that don't--without regard to whether it's religious or not. Vegans protest the meat industry--no God involved. Environmentalists protest the timber industry--no God involved. The Occupy Wall Streeters protested the financial industry--no God involved. Heck, we have our own "AntiMustachian Shame" section filled with anti-consumerist rants right here--no God involved. Religion is just another avenue of social interaction. The believers become the Have's and the unbelievers become the Have Not's. Same song, just a different verse.

So when I hear a Christian talk negatively about non-Christians, I step up when possible to remind them--Critical thought about societal ideals and social mores is not wrong. Harsh criticisms about specific people are (If you can't say anything nice...and all). When I hear (or read in CNN comments) a non-Christian ranting about Christians for this or that, I focus on the presented idea and tune out the static. And sometimes, both the Christian and the non-Christian have nothing positive or meaningful to add to the discussion, so I ignore them equally.

For full disclosure, I am a conservative Christian who finds that many folks labeled "evangelical Christians" have never tried to evangelize a single person. Funny how stereotypes and labels work.

 

[randymarsh]

I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious.

In the United States? Not sure if serious.

[surfhb]

The Story of Noah has been told in several different cultures....many hundreds of years before it was written in the New Testament.     Which tells me there was probably a regional cataclysmic flood many moons ago.   In fact, the Zanclean Flood filled in the Mediterranean Sea in a mere 1-2 weeks when the straight broke away about 5.3 million years ago.....its a theory anyway :)     

Religion is nothing more then a way for humans to explain our own existence.....good too since there would be culture without it.     

BTW.....the Bible is a completely archeological and geological accurate text.   

[Beric01]

I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious.

In the United States? Not sure if serious.

Workplace discrimination encountered by 1 in 3.

36% of Americans report experiencing or witnessing workplace religious discrimination, according to a recent Tanenbaum survey, "What American Workers Really Think about Religion."

Nearly half of non-Christian workers (49%) report experiencing or witnessing religious non-accomodation at work. White evangelical workers (48%) are equally as likely to report experiencing or witnessing religious non-accommodation at work. And two-in-five (40%) atheists also report experiencing or witnessing religious non-accomodation.

[frugalecon]

I am Unitarian-Universalist, which is a good choice for people who do not want dogma, value the use of reason, and want to benefit from community.

[Runge]

I always wondered what MMM's religious views were for some reason. does anyone know?

I don't remember what article it was, but I remember him liking an applying some Buddhist teachings to his life. Not saying he is actually Buddhist though.

And can any religious person answer this

: Pretty much every single religion conflicts with each other in some way (Different gods, prophets, beliefs, customs)
- If that is the case, would that mean that only one religion is correct, and that other religions are wrong? How can multiple all-powerful gods and individual prophets exist for EACH religion?

It just seems to hard to believe every religion's beliefs can all be correct and exist simultaneously, with no physical evidence of anything over the past 2000 years (for the most part)

You are correct that most, if not all, religions conflict with each other, and the fact that you're finding it difficult to believe every religion's beliefs can all be correct is spot on. Of course that is where the whole absolute truth debate comes into play. How can religion A say "this is the way to live" and then religion B says "no, THIS is the way to live?" Are they both right, both wrong, or one is right? Most of this comes from apologetics and every religion has their reasoning.

I am by no means an expert on apologetics; I just know enough to get myself into huge trouble. But I can suggest some books to check out and read through if you're interested, although I regret that I only have pro-Christian books and various resources. I really need to do some research on non-Christian apologetics. Aside from The Bible itself, the two main books that come to mind at the moment for me are C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity and Timothy Keller's The Reason for God. Both books are in my opinion excellent and presenting arguments from both sides and reasoning through them. If anyone else has any recommendations to read, I sincerely would be interested.

Having wrestled though, and to some extent still am, this in regards to my faith, I do believe that it can be good and fruitful to have these kinds of conversations, so long as all parties are open and intent on listening to and respecting opposing sides. I'm uncertain if that discussion is acceptable on this forum, so I'll adhere to the moderators' remarks.

[sol]

Religion is a personal belief system that we have worked very hard in this country to protect.  Each person is allowed to choose what they believe in, and how they choose to worship or not worship.

The only problem is that some people choose to believe in really stupid things.  I totally respect the rights of the Branch Davidians to worship David Koresh as the true son of God instead of Jesus (which is stupid).  I even respect their right to engage in consensual polygamy (also stupid).  But some of the other stupid things they believe led them to an armed standoff with the U.S. government, and that's a battle that no group of private citizens is ever going to win so they all ended up dead. 

I think the analogy applies to many different belief systems.  I think it's great that you believe in something, but maybe we could all try a little harder to not let our beliefs get in the way of common sense?

[Beric01]

I don't remember what article it was, but I remember him liking an applying some Buddhist teachings to his life. Not saying he is actually Buddhist though.

That would make even more sense for him to be atheist/agnostic then. If you look at the chart I posted earlier, atheists and agnostics have high options of Buddhists.

[Cheddar Stacker]

I am Christian down to the marrow in my bones. I tithe to the church and make gifts to charities on top of that.  I leave judgement up to God, and I do my best to live a Christian life.  I have been married to the same man for 40 years.  I'm not perfect, just forgiven.  But I am very happy with my life. I very well may be in the minority, but that doesn't bother me in the least.  I'm sure someone will feel the absolute necessity to make some snide comments about this post, but that won't bother me either.

No snide comments from me. It's not my thing, but I see no reason to bash religion in general and I respect your freedoms and belief to do as you please. If it fulfills you, carry on. Now a rant on my former religion.

However, when religion turns into overzealous behavior I start to have problems. Not you frugalconfederate, I'm speaking of anything from jihad all the way down to excommunication for radical thoughts or god forbid homosexuality.

Much of what I learned from 12 years of a catholic education preached love, compassion, forgiveness, and community. Then that church turns their back on religiously devout catholic homosexuals, won't allow women priests, won't allow priests to marry, and does everything in their power to cover up their priests homosexual child abusive behavior. This is not the only reason I'm no longer an active catholic, but it certainly doesn't make me want to return. Hypocritical. Hard to understand. Impossible to support IMO. / rant

But honestly, if religion makes you happy and you don't participate in any jihad or discrimination, good for you. I'm honestly happy for anyone who finds peace in their lives.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Also, +1 to sol. Well said.

[sol]

That would make even more sense for him to be atheist/agnostic then. If you look at the chart I posted earlier, atheists and agnostics have high options of Buddhists.

I think atheists and agnostics have high opinions of Buddhism because it provides all of the good parts of religion, like a sense of community and rules for finding happiness and meaning in life, without the need for a supernatural creator being.  What's not to love?

[Gin1984]

I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious.

In the United States? Not sure if serious.

I would lose my job tomorrow if either my religious views or my politics were known by my employer. Tomorrow. And no, I'm not working for a political organization. And no, my employers are not Intolerant Religious Conservatives. And no, I'm not a neo-Nazi or anything else that is likely to make the organization look really awful.

My religion would get me fired as well, though my boss is liberal politically.

[HappyRock]

I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious.

In the United States? Not sure if serious.

I would lose my job tomorrow if either my religious views or my politics were known by my employer. Tomorrow. And no, I'm not working for a political organization. And no, my employers are not Intolerant Religious Conservatives. And no, I'm not a neo-Nazi or anything else that is likely to make the organization look really awful.

My religion would get me fired as well, though my boss is liberal politically.

Do you mind sharing what exactly it is?
(completely understandable if no)

+1, and I think most atheists especially feel this way.

This is simply because it is not the "normal" thing to do in society (I.e following a traditional religion)

That would make even more sense for him to be atheist/agnostic then. If you look at the chart I posted earlier, atheists and agnostics have high options of Buddhists.

I think atheists and agnostics have high opinions of Buddhism because it provides all of the good parts of religion, like a sense of community and rules for finding happiness and meaning in life, without the need for a supernatural creator being.  What's not to love?

+1 Sol. great as always. In my opinion, Buddhism is one of the best religions (as far as what i believe in morally, ethically, etc) that I have learned about.

[Beric01]

That would make even more sense for him to be atheist/agnostic then. If you look at the chart I posted earlier, atheists and agnostics have high options of Buddhists.

I think atheists and agnostics have high opinions of Buddhism because it provides all of the good parts of religion, like a sense of community and rules for finding happiness and meaning in life, without the need for a supernatural creator being.  What's not to love?

Yup, I agree it makes sense. I can't say I'm enamored with it (or any religion), but I can't say I have any problems with Buddhism.

[Dr. Doom]

I am an atheist. 

I've gotten the impression from things MMM has said on his blog that he is as well, but this might just be wishful thinking :)

He likely is, but just as it is with a lot of politicians, he keeps quiet on this matter as it might not be worth the backlash from those that are and read this blog. That's okay.

I agree.  He doesn't want his own personal views on politics or religion to distract from his message. 

At any rate, it's smart to keep it on the DL.

[HappyRock]

It is hard to talk about religion without offending anyone, but i think the MMM community is different -

To me, Religion itself is such an interesting idea... Customs and stories from thousands of years ago are still considered 100% logical to so many people today. So many people devote their lives and money to it, while others do not care at all.

For logical thinkers who are born today, and NOT raised by religious families - it is just as logically acceptable to have atheist or agnostic beliefs. But to many people, it is simply not socially acceptable. I think part of this is because of conflicting religious views, for example i remember a time a student said "in the old testament, it said all non-believers shouldn't exist or live".

Even if this isn't true, he believes it and sadly many others do. At least where I live

I am tired... but have so much to say..thanks to all who responded

[Nudelkopf]

Also, are all the creation stories, (for example Adam and Eve/Noah's Arc) metaphors for something else or literal? And if it is literal that would simply make no sense what so ever imo.

Here's something that I like, which aligns Genesis (creation) with scientific theory: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-wolper/genesis-and-science_b_500201.html

I know it's a Huffington Post article... But I read a fairly decent book recently (but can't remember its name) which is summarised here nicely.

[RichLife]

I was baptised and took communion, and received a Christian education. Even since a young age I felt that religion was more a set of guidelines to live a good life rather than stories to be taken literally. I no longer consider myself a true Christian, and I've looked into other religions (I have a Buddha statue at home) and the more I learn the more I feel that each is united in again being a set of guidelines and old laws for a good life.

Many customs also make sense when you consider them in an era before we had proper scientific knowledge, such as the preparation or avoidance of certain meat products. People did not know about bacteria, but they did know that if you did something a certain way then people would not get sick and die. It makes sense to attribute that to a higher force.

I wouldn't call myself an atheist per se because I do believe in / respect that there are many things beyond our comprehension. I feel that science has the truth of it but at the same time science is not mutually exclusive with spirituality. I believe in personal growth and being a good person, and I also believe that we are all connected simply by the fact that our atoms are matter that is part of the universe. To me it is important to feel this connection, and be humbled by it.

[PloddingInsight]

I am Christian down to the marrow in my bones. I tithe to the church and make gifts to charities on top of that.  I leave judgement up to God, and I do my best to live a Christian life.  I have been married to the same man for 40 years.  I'm not perfect, just forgiven.  But I am very happy with my life. I very well may be in the minority, but that doesn't bother me in the least.  I'm sure someone will feel the absolute necessity to make some snide comments about this post, but that won't bother me either.

Props to you for speaking up! As mentioned I'm agnostic, but I can definitely respect religious people. Personally, I have just as much problem with militant atheists as religious. I think there's a lot of discouragement of revealing that you're religious. Here's a study that shows how much atheists and evangelicals hate each other.

That's a really neat chart, but I wish it was more complete.  What do Muslims think of those other religions??

[MoneyCat]

I'm Christian and my religion plays a big part in my choice to live a minimalist (aka Mustachian) lifestyle and to help those in need.  I'm actually a little disturbed by the huge rise in atheism over the past decade or so, because I am seeing the concurrent rise of ultra-selfish philosophies like Objectivism (which is the philosophy of writer Ayn Rand.)  I honestly don't know if that is causation or correlation, but it really makes me wonder.

[GuitarStv]

To be religious is to hold a belief in the absence (and in many cases in spite of) of testable or provable fact.  There's no logical reason to support belief in the supernatural.  So, why do we choose to believe?

Humans are natural pattern-matchers.  It's how we look at the world and interpret data.  Given some white noise to study for long enough, most humans will start to see patterns in the noise.  I think that the widespread need to believe in something largely comes from trying to change the background noise of our lives into some kind of neat little pattern.  Studies have shown that religious people are better pattern matchers than non-believers, so at least some of the data appears to support this conclusion (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003679#pone.0003679-Erdelyi1).  Interestingly, the people who have the least control over their lives appear to be the most susceptible to try and force patterns from random data (http://www.rifters.com/real/articles/Science_LackingControlIncreasesIllusoryPatternPerception.pdf), which may account for the prevalence of religion in war torn or third world countries.

Religions tend to conflict with one another because they are attempting the same thing . . . forcing patterns from noise.  Even religions that are trying to force similar patterns (take your Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Islamic faith, and Christianity) all developed from different people and interpretations of static and thus came to wildly different conclusions on many issues.  None of them are more correct than the other, because they're all based on misinterpretation.  (That isn't to say that people who follow them aren't capable of being good, decent, logical people . . . it also isn't to say that people who believe are somehow less intelligent.  They just derive more pleasure from pattern matching than a focus on pure logic.)

[PloddingInsight]

To be religious is to hold a belief in the absence (and in many cases in spite of) of testable or provable fact.  There's no logical reason to support belief in the supernatural.  So, why do we choose to believe?

Humans are natural pattern-matchers.  It's how we look at the world and interpret data.  Given some white noise to study for long enough, most humans will start to see patterns in the noise.  I think that the widespread need to believe in something largely comes from trying to change the background noise of our lives into some kind of neat little pattern.  Studies have shown that religious people are better pattern matchers than non-believers, so at least some of the data appears to support this conclusion (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003679#pone.0003679-Erdelyi1).  Interestingly, the people who have the least control over their lives appear to be the most susceptible to try and force patterns from random data (http://www.rifters.com/real/articles/Science_LackingControlIncreasesIllusoryPatternPerception.pdf), which may account for the prevalence of religion in war torn or third world countries.

Religions tend to conflict with one another because they are attempting the same thing . . . forcing patterns from noise.  Even religions that are trying to force similar patterns (take your Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Islamic faith, and Christianity) all developed from different people and interpretations of static and thus came to wildly different conclusions on many issues.  None of them are more correct than the other, because they're all based on misinterpretation.  (That isn't to say that people who follow them aren't capable of being good, decent, logical people . . . it also isn't to say that people who believe are somehow less intelligent.  They just derive more pleasure from pattern matching than a focus on pure logic.)

That all makes sense if you assume the religion is false, but what if the religion is true?

[GuitarStv]

To be religious is to hold a belief in the absence (and in many cases in spite of) of testable or provable fact.  There's no logical reason to support belief in the supernatural.  So, why do we choose to believe?

Humans are natural pattern-matchers.  It's how we look at the world and interpret data.  Given some white noise to study for long enough, most humans will start to see patterns in the noise.  I think that the widespread need to believe in something largely comes from trying to change the background noise of our lives into some kind of neat little pattern.  Studies have shown that religious people are better pattern matchers than non-believers, so at least some of the data appears to support this conclusion (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003679#pone.0003679-Erdelyi1).  Interestingly, the people who have the least control over their lives appear to be the most susceptible to try and force patterns from random data (http://www.rifters.com/real/articles/Science_LackingControlIncreasesIllusoryPatternPerception.pdf), which may account for the prevalence of religion in war torn or third world countries.

Religions tend to conflict with one another because they are attempting the same thing . . . forcing patterns from noise.  Even religions that are trying to force similar patterns (take your Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Islamic faith, and Christianity) all developed from different people and interpretations of static and thus came to wildly different conclusions on many issues.  None of them are more correct than the other, because they're all based on misinterpretation.  (That isn't to say that people who follow them aren't capable of being good, decent, logical people . . . it also isn't to say that people who believe are somehow less intelligent.  They just derive more pleasure from pattern matching than a focus on pure logic.)

That all makes sense if you assume the religion is false, but what if the religion is true?

There's no logical reason to believe that the religion is true.  Russell's teapot.

[KBecks2]

On his podcast, he says he is a huge fan of the "Cosmos" series.  That should tell you about all you need to know...

MMM has a podcast???  Woo!  Where?

[KBecks2]

I would lose my job tomorrow if either my religious views or my politics were known by my employer. Tomorrow. And no, I'm not working for a political organization. And no, my employers are not Intolerant Religious Conservatives. And no, I'm not a neo-Nazi or anything else that is likely to make the organization look really awful.

You mean if they were simply known by your employer, or do you mean if you spoke about them inappropriately to clients or co workers?

Usually the people you work with closely get to know a little about your life outside work.  Some of my co-workers knew that I sing at church, that I'm Catholic, and a few who were conservative Republicans may have noticed that I was not an Obama cheerleader during the first election.  It was not a regular topic of conversation, but if asked what I did over the weekend, I might mention that I sang a solo at church or that I had choir practice on Thursday nights.  People are supposed to have lives, hopefully interesting ones, outside the office. 

I'm so curious about what kind of place you work at!

[Runge]

To be religious is to hold a belief in the absence (and in many cases in spite of) of testable or provable fact.  There's no logical reason to support belief in the supernatural.  So, why do we choose to believe?

Humans are natural pattern-matchers.  It's how we look at the world and interpret data.  Given some white noise to study for long enough, most humans will start to see patterns in the noise.  I think that the widespread need to believe in something largely comes from trying to change the background noise of our lives into some kind of neat little pattern.  Studies have shown that religious people are better pattern matchers than non-believers, so at least some of the data appears to support this conclusion (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003679#pone.0003679-Erdelyi1).  Interestingly, the people who have the least control over their lives appear to be the most susceptible to try and force patterns from random data (http://www.rifters.com/real/articles/Science_LackingControlIncreasesIllusoryPatternPerception.pdf), which may account for the prevalence of religion in war torn or third world countries.

Religions tend to conflict with one another because they are attempting the same thing . . . forcing patterns from noise.  Even religions that are trying to force similar patterns (take your Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Islamic faith, and Christianity) all developed from different people and interpretations of static and thus came to wildly different conclusions on many issues.  None of them are more correct than the other, because they're all based on misinterpretation.  (That isn't to say that people who follow them aren't capable of being good, decent, logical people . . . it also isn't to say that people who believe are somehow less intelligent.  They just derive more pleasure from pattern matching than a focus on pure logic.)

That all makes sense if you assume the religion is false, but what if the religion is true?

There's no logical reason to believe that the religion is true.  Russell's teapot.

Not trying to be combative here, just posing a counter-argument.

That statement doesn't make logical sense considering that the definition of religion itself is simply a "set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe..." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

Therefore if you believe, have reasoned out, or come to a logical conclusion (however you want to word it) that all religion is not true, then isn't that the core foundation for your set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe? Doesn't this then self defeat the very statement you made?

[Phil_Moore]

I'm actually a little disturbed by the huge rise in atheism over the past decade or so

I can't imagine the global percentage of atheists is more than 5%, happy to be corrected though.

So I think your worries may be misplaced, if that makes you feel any better.