Author Topic: Red Light Camera Ticket  (Read 26027 times)

SnackDog

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »
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Here in Australia we are responsible for our cars.  As such, if our car is photographed running a red light or speeding then we will receive a fine.  If we were not the person driving the car at the time we have the option of advising the authorities of who was the driver* and if we choose not to then we are responsible for paying the fine.

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As has been pointed out, this makes sense and is consistent with how parking tickets are handled (parking tickets, by the way, are going electronic as well so stay tuned for that).  I'd like to see someone go to court and argue they don't owe a parking ticket (levied by a private parking or enforcement company, for example) because their brother-in-law borrowed the car that day.
The habit of saving is itself an education; it fosters every virtue, teaches self-denial, cultivates the sense of order, trains to forethought, and so broadens the mind. –Thomas T. Munger

oldtoyota

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2013, 01:23:32 PM »
I must say it seems to me the cry of Constitutional rights infringement is a bit of smoke and mirrors to rationalise the desire to do what ever one likes in their car and not be held responsible unless caught in the act by a human Police Officer, which is very rare and unlikely to happen as there just are not enough Police to station one at every intersection.

Maybe for some people. Not in my case. I am just tired of being monitored constantly. And I think municipalities do this to increase revenue.




mpbaker22

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
I must say it seems to me the cry of Constitutional rights infringement is a bit of smoke and mirrors to rationalise the desire to do what ever one likes in their car and not be held responsible unless caught in the act by a human Police Officer, which is very rare and unlikely to happen as there just are not enough Police to station one at every intersection.

Maybe for some people. Not in my case. I am just tired of being monitored constantly. And I think Know municipalities do this to increase revenue.

The main thing is the red light tickets are just a silly situation.  A camera can't detect a lot of things.  A cop wouldn't ticket a driver who barely runs a red light because they weren't sure if they could stop in time.  A cop wouldn't ticket a driver who has a legitimate reason for 'running' a red light.

And people will say you can go to court if you are legitimately innocent, but that's ridiculous.  That's multiple hours, sometime over multiple days, that you have to take off work to fight an illegitimate ticket.  ...Not to mention the tickets given out across the state that can't be fought because the court room is 200 miles away.

jba302

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2013, 12:46:29 PM »
As has been pointed out, this makes sense and is consistent with how parking tickets are handled (parking tickets, by the way, are going electronic as well so stay tuned for that).  I'd like to see someone go to court and argue they don't owe a parking ticket (levied by a private parking or enforcement company, for example) because their brother-in-law borrowed the car that day.

I wouldn't call parking tickets similar. With a red light camera, there's video evidence of someone breaking a law. Being from Chicago, parking tickets seem to be issued incorrectly more than correctly.

oldtoyota

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2013, 02:28:34 PM »
As has been pointed out, this makes sense and is consistent with how parking tickets are handled (parking tickets, by the way, are going electronic as well so stay tuned for that).  I'd like to see someone go to court and argue they don't owe a parking ticket (levied by a private parking or enforcement company, for example) because their brother-in-law borrowed the car that day.

I wouldn't call parking tickets similar. With a red light camera, there's video evidence of someone breaking a law. Being from Chicago, parking tickets seem to be issued incorrectly more than correctly.

Same thing. There are plenty of examples of poorly-timed lights or camera systems that incorrectly charged people too. If you get the German shepherd to guard the ham, don't expect to have any ham left.


mpbaker22

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2013, 05:30:43 PM »
As has been pointed out, this makes sense and is consistent with how parking tickets are handled (parking tickets, by the way, are going electronic as well so stay tuned for that).  I'd like to see someone go to court and argue they don't owe a parking ticket (levied by a private parking or enforcement company, for example) because their brother-in-law borrowed the car that day.

I wouldn't call parking tickets similar. With a red light camera, there's video evidence of someone breaking a law. Being from Chicago, parking tickets seem to be issued incorrectly more than correctly.

Same thing. There are plenty of examples of poorly-timed lights or camera systems that incorrectly charged people too. If you get the German shepherd to guard the ham, don't expect to have any ham left.

Yep.  Like I've said before a lot of people will just pay it so they don't have to worry about it.  Other people don't want to waste hours and hours to fight a $100 ticket.  Sure, you can go to court and fight it, but when they are issued frequently in error, maybe we should stop wasting everyone's time.

oldtoyota

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2013, 09:15:30 AM »
Good article here. It points out how American Traffic Solutions had to settle lawsuits about unfair yellow light timing. ATS was accused of reducing the length of time for yellow lights in order to capture more red light runners:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/03/18/red-light-cameras-lawsuits/1985537/

mpbaker22

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2013, 09:34:15 AM »
Good article here. It points out how American Traffic Solutions had to settle lawsuits about unfair yellow light timing. ATS was accused of reducing the length of time for yellow lights in order to capture more red light runners:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/03/18/red-light-cameras-lawsuits/1985537/

Yep!  I actually got a second red light ticket in a municipality that actually will arrest you if you don't pay it (compared to the city of St. Louis which does nothing if you don't pay).  So, naturally I fought it in court with the argument that the timing wasn't correct.  I backed into the amount of time the light was yellow from the video presented on the government's website.  I used that to calculate the speed and minimum stopping distance, and I showed that it did not comply with state law.

My ticket was dropped, but I wonder how many people are not aware of what's going on.

SunshineGirl

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #108 on: December 19, 2013, 10:44:19 AM »
Good article here. It points out how American Traffic Solutions had to settle lawsuits about unfair yellow light timing. ATS was accused of reducing the length of time for yellow lights in order to capture more red light runners:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/03/18/red-light-cameras-lawsuits/1985537/

I got a ticket the other month that I am presently ignoring, and for this exact reason. It was at an intersection that I rarely go through, and I actually remember the incident, because the light was still green when I crossed the intersection and yellow then red in -- I swear! - less than three seconds. The statement I got shows I wasn't speeding, as well. I've researched this in my city and, sure enough, the timing of the yellow lights at the eight intersections that have the cameras is well below whatever the national standard is, while at all other intersections, it's standard. Plus, the line they judge you on isn't the crosswalk line, which is what any driver would use as a guide, but a thick line well beyond the crosswalk. It's total entrapment, in my view. I could not have avoided this ticket, as I was driving through a green light and it turned yellow then red THAT fast.

What my lawyer friend here told me was 1. don't view the video on the website if you're directed to one, because that serves as proof that you have received the ticket. 2. ignore it. Here, it's dismissed after 120 days if you haven't been served by a process server, which happens rarely. BUT, the magistrate almost never dismisses them, so fighting it doesn't work. The ticket is $300+, more than a minimum wage for one week, and going to traffic school was over $200.





oldtoyota

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #109 on: December 19, 2013, 01:47:59 PM »
I find this subject interesting so did a bit more reading.

The major of Modesto, CA was surprised to find that the camera he had voted for had been positioned not to prevent the dangerous "t-bone" kind of accident but to catch people turning right on red (illegal, yes, but not that dangerous). He felt the camera was positioned to raise revenue as opposed to increasing safety. Now, he is against the camera.

He is also not thrilled that the revenue from the camera--around $1MM--has gone to Arizona (home of American Traffic Solutions). He said it might be a different story if the revenue was staying in the community and being put to good use.




SunshineGirl

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #110 on: December 20, 2013, 08:18:44 AM »
Where I live, the company gets 50% of the revenue and the city gets 50%, if I recall correctly.

mpbaker22

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Re: Red Light Camera Ticket
« Reply #111 on: December 20, 2013, 09:32:07 AM »
Where I live, the company gets 50% of the revenue and the city gets 50%, if I recall correctly.

Yikes!  I thought 33% was bad in STL.  The bigger issue in my mind is that councilmen in these towns will frequently declare that they are receiving this service for free because the companies don't get paid on a per case basis.  Yes, but they're still receiving 50% of anything that comes in.  That's not "for free" it's just a different fee system.