Author Topic: Prison Populations In the USA  (Read 8912 times)

soccerluvof4

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Prison Populations In the USA
« on: July 11, 2014, 09:45:08 AM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 09:47:14 AM by soccerluvof4 »
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thepokercab

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 10:05:35 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 10:13:12 AM »
Strong drug policy correlation.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 10:17:59 AM »
Strong drug policy correlation.
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.


agreed on both. To your point CXW was a good stock to own for awhile. A trend that will most likely continue.
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yyc-phil

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 10:28:08 AM »
The situation is a bit different in Canada, but not that much. Despite making up only 4 per cent of the general Canadian population, Aboriginals make up 23 per cent of the prison population. I expect it will get worst, especially with our current government which makes our former corrupt liberal government look like good choir boys.
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randymarsh

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 10:30:05 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.
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ketchup

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 10:38:55 AM »
The scariest part for me was when I realized that graph actually did start at 0 like any real graph should.

Gin1984

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2014, 10:43:02 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.
But don't forget classism, either.  A friend and I were in high school (freshman year) and everyone brought huge bags of candy to share for Easter (without talking to each other), so what could we do but EAT ALL THE CANDY.  So, 14 year old girl hyped up on sugar.  Oh, and no lunch since this was an early dismissal day from the Catholic school.  So friend and I, acting very hyper went to the library to hang out before being picked up by parents.  We see some cops and wave hello, acting quite hyper (or on a upper or something).  In fact, my friend waved so much she fell into the street.  They laughed and we left.  I left her there with our stuff and changed to go grab us lunch up the street. I was still hyper but much more calm away from my friend.  And yet, same cops stopped me and started asking what I was on.  This continued until I pointed out that we had passed them before and they did nothing.  They refused to believe me until I described up (two little white girls in the [high school] uniform, little gray skirts, 10 minutes ago, bahabah).  Then, oh oops and they let me go without issue. 

yyc-phil

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2014, 10:56:37 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.

Absolutely correct comment. My own son, who is racially mixed and looks more like an American Indian than a white kid, has been stopped numerous times by the police. The last incident happened two weeks ago while he was walking with his girl friend two blocks from our house on his way to the movie theatre around 9 pm. For no apparent reason other than the fact that a native kid might be up to no good if he walks with a white girl downtown at night, the cops stopped him and asked him where he was going. He casually replied that he was just going to the movie with his girlfriend. That was not a sufficiently good answer apparently. The cops ordered him to stop, asked for his ID which he didn't have because he had lost his wallet a week prior, he then was searched and handcuffed, and taken to the police station where he spent the night. He was released, without charge, after spending 11 hours in a cell, and without being able to call a lawyer or a family member. My son is usually well dressed and well groomed, and yet this happens to him all the time, so imagine what happens to those who look a little less polished or disheveled.
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Gin1984

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 11:00:14 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.

Absolutely correct comment. My own son, who is racially mixed and looks more like an American Indian than a white kid, has been stopped numerous times by the police. The last incident happened two weeks ago while he was walking with his girl friend two blocks from our house on his way to the movie theatre around 9 pm. For no apparent reason other than the fact that a native kid might be up to no good if he walks with a white girl downtown at night, the cops stopped him and asked him where he was going. He casually replied that he was just going to the movie with his girlfriend. That was not a sufficiently good answer apparently. The cops ordered him to stop, asked for his ID which he didn't have because he had lost his wallet a week prior, he then was searched and handcuffed, and taken to the police station where he spent the night. He was released, without charge, after spending 11 hours in a cell, and without being able to call a lawyer or a family member. My son is usually well dressed and well groomed, and yet this happens to him all the time, so imagine what happens to those who look a little less polished or disheveled.
How old is your son?  And why did the girlfriend not call YOU?

yyc-phil

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2014, 11:20:09 AM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.

Absolutely correct comment. My own son, who is racially mixed and looks more like an American Indian than a white kid, has been stopped numerous times by the police. The last incident happened two weeks ago while he was walking with his girl friend two blocks from our house on his way to the movie theatre around 9 pm. For no apparent reason other than the fact that a native kid might be up to no good if he walks with a white girl downtown at night, the cops stopped him and asked him where he was going. He casually replied that he was just going to the movie with his girlfriend. That was not a sufficiently good answer apparently. The cops ordered him to stop, asked for his ID which he didn't have because he had lost his wallet a week prior, he then was searched and handcuffed, and taken to the police station where he spent the night. He was released, without charge, after spending 11 hours in a cell, and without being able to call a lawyer or a family member. My son is usually well dressed and well groomed, and yet this happens to him all the time, so imagine what happens to those who look a little less polished or disheveled.
How old is your son?  And why did the girlfriend not call YOU?

He is 24, and this has happened to him since he was a teen. His older brother who looks more white than Native never had this type of experience. The girlfriend tried to call me but unfortunately I was at work in a remote location with no cell phone access.
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randymarsh

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2014, 03:00:25 PM »
I know I'm not going to like the answer to this.

But...can police do that? I mean obviously they did. It appears the reason was for lack of ID? I know certain states require you to "stop and identify" yourself, but according to Wikipedia it looks like courts have said simply providing your name is enough. No actual proof is required. So they can just detain you for X hours/days anytime they want? Scary.
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yyc-phil

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 03:17:57 PM »
I know I'm not going to like the answer to this.

But...can police do that? I mean obviously they did. It appears the reason was for lack of ID? I know certain states require you to "stop and identify" yourself, but according to Wikipedia it looks like courts have said simply providing your name is enough. No actual proof is required. So they can just detain you for X hours/days anytime they want? Scary.

In Canada, here is what a criminal lawyer is saying about your rights when being arrested or detained. Based on this, I am pretty sure my son was detained illegally. He is obviously pissed off about this incident, and for good reason, but like many young Aboriginal men in his demographics, he wants to stay as far as possible from police, lawyers, and courts. I for one would push for answers, but except for one traffic violation (for riding my bike in a restricted area), I have never had any dealings like this with the police.

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/blog/2012/06/what-to-do-when-the-police-want-to-talk-to-you.html
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DoubleDown

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2014, 05:36:43 PM »
Certainly ashamed of this, but when I was in my early 20's, I was driving my girlfriend in the sports car I had just bought. We were on vacation in a rural county, and I foolishly "peeled out". To make things far more shameful, I had been drinking beforehand. I likely wasn't completely impaired beyond my poor judgment, but now I know better than to even think of getting behind the wheel after anything more than one drink. But I was more foolish then.

Anyhow, a sheriff's deputy happened to be sitting in his car behind some trees, saw me whip around the corner, tires squealing, and pulled me over. He asked me what I was up to, and I said I was just being dumb, showing off for my girlfriend. He did the usual of asking for my license/registration. He asked my if I had been drinking, and I gave him the usual (lame) answer of "1 or 2 beers." Then he let me go with a warning.

This is total speculation on my part, but I can't imagine being let off with a warning if I wasn't a young white male with my white girlfriend in that rural county. By all rights I should have been given a ticket at least, and a field sobriety test and possibly locked up. But (lucky for me) I was treated with a "boys will be boys" mentality. Coming from an urban area where I lived, I thought at the time, "That's it?! I'm sure lucky I'm not black/Hispanic/other." Or maybe that was just a really gracious sheriff's deputy and he would have treated a minority the same way...
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soccerluvof4

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2014, 07:54:29 AM »
They same goes for me at airports being profiled. I am born and raised in America , half Italian half mix of French, Scottish and Norwegian,  But because I have a " Roman" nose and dark skin I cant remember the last time I didn't get pulled aside at the airport for extra screening.
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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »
They same goes for me at airports being profiled. I am born and raised in America , half Italian half mix of French, Scottish and Norwegian,  But because I have a " Roman" nose and dark skin I cant remember the last time I didn't get pulled aside at the airport for extra screening.

Last time I went overseas I was stopped at every airport. I mean come on, like every dark skinned person is a terrorist or what not.

Maybe its because I look poor since I still dress like it's the 90's. Polo shirt, sneakers and jeans. Ha

libertarian4321

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2014, 04:11:17 AM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.

A HUGE percentage of those incarcerated are there because of our expensive, insane "War on Drugs."  Notice the incarceration rates skyrocket in the '80s coinciding with the Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign and the corresponding police state actions of the US government to "win" the failed "War on Drugs."

End the insane "War on Drugs" and we become a civilized nation again, without ridiculous numbers of citizens imprisoned for harmless "crimes" like smoking a joint after work.

The states are slowly coming around to a more rational approach to marijuana (medical marijuana allowed in many states, and WA and CO now allow recreational use)- but the Federal Drug Warriors, led by Barack Obama (who, ironically, was a drug user- as was Bill Clinton, Al Gore, George W. Bush, John Kerry, Sarah Palin- would any of them have been "better off" if they had been caught and imprisoned?) are still using their Gestapo tactics to incarcerate millions of Americans.

End the insane war on Drugs, and you empty out the prisons in a hurry...

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 02:34:14 PM »
Certainly ashamed of this, but when I was in my early 20's, I was driving my girlfriend in the sports car I had just bought. We were on vacation in a rural county, and I foolishly "peeled out". To make things far more shameful, I had been drinking beforehand. I likely wasn't completely impaired beyond my poor judgment, but now I know better than to even think of getting behind the wheel after anything more than one drink. But I was more foolish then.

Anyhow, a sheriff's deputy happened to be sitting in his car behind some trees, saw me whip around the corner, tires squealing, and pulled me over. He asked me what I was up to, and I said I was just being dumb, showing off for my girlfriend. He did the usual of asking for my license/registration. He asked my if I had been drinking, and I gave him the usual (lame) answer of "1 or 2 beers." Then he let me go with a warning.

This is total speculation on my part, but I can't imagine being let off with a warning if I wasn't a young white male with my white girlfriend in that rural county. By all rights I should have been given a ticket at least, and a field sobriety test and possibly locked up. But (lucky for me) I was treated with a "boys will be boys" mentality. Coming from an urban area where I lived, I thought at the time, "That's it?! I'm sure lucky I'm not black/Hispanic/other." Or maybe that was just a really gracious sheriff's deputy and he would have treated a minority the same way...

You'll never know for certain. What we do know is being white gives you better odds overall of escaping jail time for like offenses. Being white and having the money for a good attorney is even better. Just trust me on this one.
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DoubleDown

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 02:41:17 PM »
Certainly ashamed of this, but when I was in my early 20's, I was driving my girlfriend in the sports car I had just bought. We were on vacation in a rural county, and I foolishly "peeled out". To make things far more shameful, I had been drinking beforehand. I likely wasn't completely impaired beyond my poor judgment, but now I know better than to even think of getting behind the wheel after anything more than one drink. But I was more foolish then.

Anyhow, a sheriff's deputy happened to be sitting in his car behind some trees, saw me whip around the corner, tires squealing, and pulled me over. He asked me what I was up to, and I said I was just being dumb, showing off for my girlfriend. He did the usual of asking for my license/registration. He asked my if I had been drinking, and I gave him the usual (lame) answer of "1 or 2 beers." Then he let me go with a warning.

This is total speculation on my part, but I can't imagine being let off with a warning if I wasn't a young white male with my white girlfriend in that rural county. By all rights I should have been given a ticket at least, and a field sobriety test and possibly locked up. But (lucky for me) I was treated with a "boys will be boys" mentality. Coming from an urban area where I lived, I thought at the time, "That's it?! I'm sure lucky I'm not black/Hispanic/other." Or maybe that was just a really gracious sheriff's deputy and he would have treated a minority the same way...

You'll never know for certain. What we do know is being white gives you better odds overall of escaping jail time for like offenses. Being white and having the money for a good attorney is even better. Just trust me on this one.

No doubt, you don't need to convince me! Although it sounds like maybe there's a good story there we'd like to hear ;-)

As it turns out, I was kinda/sorta in your neck of the woods when I got pulled over all those years ago (I was in Spotsylvania -- nice police there).
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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2014, 10:24:03 PM »
It's a national disgrace.  We used to make fun of the communists because of their incarceration rate.  Now we out do them.  All the reasons listed so far: +1.  Though contact prison systems are especially contemptible.  The recently arrested a judge for funneling teens into a contract juvie facility for kickbacks.  And the police wonder why memorials for cop killers are starting to rival their victims' memorials.  These days it's probably a greater wonder if kids have any respect for authority at all.

I disagree with the profiling thing on airlines.  I got pulled aside a lot and I don't dress weird or look particularly foreign.  I even had a military ID! 
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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2014, 08:27:41 PM »
The per capita incarceration statistic floored me.

Then again, in my area, there's been an awful lot of repeat offenders all over the news. Enough that even I, someone who avoids the news, hears about it. The worst are the multiple DUI who don't get punished until they kill someone.

Throwing that out there to generate discussion. I'm coming around on legalization of drugs, but sometimes my traditionalist conservative background is still strong.
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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2014, 09:03:45 AM »
The per capita incarceration statistic floored me.

Then again, in my area, there's been an awful lot of repeat offenders all over the news. Enough that even I, someone who avoids the news, hears about it. The worst are the multiple DUI who don't get punished until they kill someone.

Throwing that out there to generate discussion. I'm coming around on legalization of drugs, but sometimes my traditionalist conservative background is still strong.

The problem is that our current situation practically encourages recidivism. Ex-cons find themselves with very few options when their sentences are up - services to help them reintegrate into society are underfunded or non-existent, and employment is difficult to come by with a criminal record (felony convictions will disqualify you from a lot of jobs, even that if that felony was just having too much weed on you). Even finding a place to live can be a challenge, because (honest answer time, landlords) who wants to rent to someone with a record? Heck, in some states, former convicts can't even vote. Is it any wonder that when we make it so difficult to go straight, so many offenders find themselves falling into old habits?

Jack

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2014, 09:27:16 AM »
The per capita incarceration statistic floored me.

Then again, in my area, there's been an awful lot of repeat offenders all over the news. Enough that even I, someone who avoids the news, hears about it. The worst are the multiple DUI who don't get punished until they kill someone.

Throwing that out there to generate discussion. I'm coming around on legalization of drugs, but sometimes my traditionalist conservative background is still strong.

The problem is that our current situation practically encourages recidivism. Ex-cons find themselves with very few options when their sentences are up - services to help them reintegrate into society are underfunded or non-existent, and employment is difficult to come by with a criminal record (felony convictions will disqualify you from a lot of jobs, even that if that felony was just having too much weed on you). Even finding a place to live can be a challenge, because (honest answer time, landlords) who wants to rent to someone with a record? Heck, in some states, former convicts can't even vote. Is it any wonder that when we make it so difficult to go straight, so many offenders find themselves falling into old habits?

It's not just that; it's that the prisons are so overflowing with potheads that they don't have room for the real criminals!

I go to community meetings regularly where we have presentations from the police, district attorney, etc. and they complain that they can arrest and prosecute some asshole with a 50+ (not an exaggeration!) prior offenses (for things like burglary or robbery), and he'll end up back on the streets again in a couple of weeks! And we're not talking about someone from a privileged demographic, either...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:28:56 AM by Jack »

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2014, 09:31:32 AM »
Unless it's for a job with specific needs (nursery, teacher, bank), I am against the "have you ever been arrested/convicted of a crime" checkbox. You have either paid your debt to society or you haven't. It shouldn't matter whether you robbed someone's house or dealt weed years ago for you to be considered for a job at the local supermarket.

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 11:17:04 AM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.

A HUGE percentage of those incarcerated are there because of our expensive, insane "War on Drugs."  Notice the incarceration rates skyrocket in the '80s coinciding with the Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign and the corresponding police state actions of the US government to "win" the failed "War on Drugs."

End the insane "War on Drugs" and we become a civilized nation again, without ridiculous numbers of citizens imprisoned for harmless "crimes" like smoking a joint after work.

The states are slowly coming around to a more rational approach to marijuana (medical marijuana allowed in many states, and WA and CO now allow recreational use)- but the Federal Drug Warriors, led by Barack Obama (who, ironically, was a drug user- as was Bill Clinton, Al Gore, George W. Bush, John Kerry, Sarah Palin- would any of them have been "better off" if they had been caught and imprisoned?) are still using their Gestapo tactics to incarcerate millions of Americans.

End the insane war on Drugs, and you empty out the prisons in a hurry...

Completely agree, we'd also stop fueling indiscriminate murders in Mexico and S. America.   Lets not forget that all these kids streaming over the southern border are coming because they literally fear for their lives.     Why, because we love illegal drugs in this country so much that we have no problem paying terrorists to obtain them.   Lets take the fangs away from the cobra.

I think a much better system would be a series of decriminalization where things like cannabis were sold in a liquor type store and things like heroin would have to be obtained with a prescription.       We could put taxes similar to alcohol on the products that would be used to pay for a regulatory body and free rehabilitation services for anyone that wanted to stop using.

Any necessary fees beyond that would be made up with the reduction of prison spending and law enforcement.

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2014, 03:03:58 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

The reason is people breaking the law, getting caught and convicted.

GuitarStv

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 04:28:39 PM »
Most estimates put the number of people who have used cannabis at about 40% in the US.  If 2 of 5 people in the country are breaking the law, and not hurting anyone while doing so . . . maybe a jail punishment is a little over the top, and maybe the law should be re-examined..

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2014, 05:54:31 PM »
I've never understood how people thought private for profit prisons were going to end any way but badly...

Corporations have to prioritize shareholder value and the more prisoners there are...the more money they make.

It's right up there in terms of perverse incentives.

libertarian4321

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2014, 06:27:00 PM »
Most estimates put the number of people who have used cannabis at about 40% in the US.  If 2 of 5 people in the country are breaking the law, and not hurting anyone while doing so . . . maybe a jail punishment is a little over the top, and maybe the law should be re-examined..

Yes sir, it should.

The whole argument that marijuana will lead you to be a dismal failure is ridiculous.  Our current President admitted he smoked (and used harder stuff), the previous President used (but didn't have the cojones to admit it), the President before that smoked (and inhaled), as did his VP.

Would President Obama have been "better off" if, as a young man, he'd been busted and spent time in prison?  Would Bush or Gore or Clinton or Kerry or Palin?  I doubt it.

Which is why it's so hypocritical for these guys, who broke a stupid law and got away with it, to incarcerate other young people for doing exactly what they did.

The insane "War on Drugs" is not only an expensive failure, it's an active detriment to our society.

Note that I said the "War on Drugs" is the problem, not the marijuana itself.

East River Guide

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2014, 07:44:38 PM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.

That is only part of the picture. 


hybrid

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2014, 01:46:06 PM »
Certainly ashamed of this, but when I was in my early 20's, I was driving my girlfriend in the sports car I had just bought. We were on vacation in a rural county, and I foolishly "peeled out". To make things far more shameful, I had been drinking beforehand. I likely wasn't completely impaired beyond my poor judgment, but now I know better than to even think of getting behind the wheel after anything more than one drink. But I was more foolish then.

Anyhow, a sheriff's deputy happened to be sitting in his car behind some trees, saw me whip around the corner, tires squealing, and pulled me over. He asked me what I was up to, and I said I was just being dumb, showing off for my girlfriend. He did the usual of asking for my license/registration. He asked my if I had been drinking, and I gave him the usual (lame) answer of "1 or 2 beers." Then he let me go with a warning.

This is total speculation on my part, but I can't imagine being let off with a warning if I wasn't a young white male with my white girlfriend in that rural county. By all rights I should have been given a ticket at least, and a field sobriety test and possibly locked up. But (lucky for me) I was treated with a "boys will be boys" mentality. Coming from an urban area where I lived, I thought at the time, "That's it?! I'm sure lucky I'm not black/Hispanic/other." Or maybe that was just a really gracious sheriff's deputy and he would have treated a minority the same way...

You'll never know for certain. What we do know is being white gives you better odds overall of escaping jail time for like offenses. Being white and having the money for a good attorney is even better. Just trust me on this one.

No doubt, you don't need to convince me! Although it sounds like maybe there's a good story there we'd like to hear ;-)

As it turns out, I was kinda/sorta in your neck of the woods when I got pulled over all those years ago (I was in Spotsylvania -- nice police there).

I have a few stories, they don't involve me personally, but suffice to say I know a few folks who have run afoul of the law and a good defense attorney can work wonders. They cannot necessarily make a charge go away (sometimes they can if the accused jumps through all the right hoops, therapy, community service, probation, etc.), but they can definitely help get it reduced, especially for first time offenses.

Lots of folks cannot afford a good defense attorney or are ignorant of the system and don't get one in the first place and just take whatever plea the court may offer if it seems like a good deal at the time. 
Life is a game. Play it better.

hybrid

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2014, 01:55:30 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

The reason is poor people breaking the law, getting caught and convicted not hiring a good attorney.

My edits in bold. Yep, don't break the law is the surest way to avoid jail. But short of that common sense, hire a good attorney. That's one of the reason the (often white) wealthy tend to avoid stiffer sentencing. Court is a game, and if one doesn't have a good lawyer to help play that game it can get ugly fast. I've been to court recently a few times and what you and I might consider common sense - like dressing for the occasion - is more exception than rule. It's very sad.
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Gin1984

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2014, 02:14:13 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

The reason is people breaking the law, getting caught and convicted.
Have you not seen people exonerated by DNA evidence?  What is that project called?  Freedom project?

greaper007

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2014, 11:15:07 PM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.

That is only part of the picture. 



Good chart, it's really depressing how we're using prison to deal with people that society doesn't want to handle.    I recently read "Orange is the New Black" since I enjoyed the show.    It's an interesting read from someone that most of us on this forum could relate to.    Her experiences in prison really drove all these points home.

randymarsh

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2014, 10:57:22 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

The reason is people breaking the law, getting caught and convicted.
Have you not seen people exonerated by DNA evidence?  What is that project called?  Freedom project?

The Innocence Project.
 
I just now saw viper's comment. Politicians (and the public that voted for them) help put people in jail when they came up with stupid laws. Especially racist ones. Crack cocaine is punished more severely than powder cocaine. Hmmmm.

I read some article about workplace drug testing and it listed a "scary" stat: "75% of drug users have a job". It was presented as omg-drug-users-in-the-next-cubicle-reefer-madness!!! They seem to have missed the observation that their own data casts downs on the "druggies are worthless losers" stereotype. Gotta sell more drug testing supplies!
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EricL

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2014, 05:30:38 AM »
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/america-s-prisons----7-11-14.html?soid=1101151826392&aid=esl9LJ7cvp4

I find this depressing to say the least. Well beyond what I ever expected though I knew they were high.

That is only part of the picture. 




Good chart, it's really depressing how we're using prison to deal with people that society doesn't want to handle.    I recently read "Orange is the New Black" since I enjoyed the show.    It's an interesting read from someone that most of us on this forum could relate to.    Her experiences in prison really drove all these points home.

Yeah.  We have so many people incarcerated targeting them and their relations as a entertainment/advertising demographic is a valid business proposition.  A national disgrace.
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viper155

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 06:51:09 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.

White people try to hide their illegal drug use. Others don't. They condone it. They're not very bright and are their own worst enemies.

greaper007

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2014, 09:00:18 PM »
The reason-  $$$$.  Law enforcement, homeland security, private prisons, border security; billions upon billions of dollars sloshing around.  Filling our prisons to the brim, and building more prisons on top of that, is big money.

Don't forget racism. Sure, drugs are illegal for everyone. But they're really illegal if you're not white.

White people try to hide their illegal drug use. Others don't. They condone it. They're not very bright and are their own worst enemies.

So true, we should probably restart the Tuskegee Experiments just to stick it to those dumb minorities.


Cressida

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2014, 09:19:28 PM »
White people try to hide their illegal drug use. Others don't. They condone it. They're not very bright and are their own worst enemies.
So true, we should probably restart the Tuskegee Experiments just to stick it to those dumb minorities.

viper155 is a troll. They've already dissed minorities and women several times just this weekend. Everyone, let's ignore them and hopefully they will go away.

greaper007

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2014, 11:00:11 PM »
White people try to hide their illegal drug use. Others don't. They condone it. They're not very bright and are their own worst enemies.
So true, we should probably restart the Tuskegee Experiments just to stick it to those dumb minorities.

viper155 is a troll. They've already dissed minorities and women several times just this weekend. Everyone, let's ignore them and hopefully they will go away.


Ahhh, 20 years ago there was a crank in every town.    Now they all get to meet up on the internet.

Bob W

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2014, 09:42:46 AM »
So 5 times as many people are locked up as there was 25 years ago?   

Let's please get rid of the war on drugs and the beer police.   Let's demilitarize the police and send them all to get real jobs.   In the city near my home, 25 years ago there was one cop.  Now there are 12 with barely a bump up in population.  Guess what according to their own stats crime has gone up every year. 



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soccerluvof4

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2014, 06:50:48 AM »
I'm old school but grew up in an area where everyone around me seem to get high waiting for the bus in the morning and pretty much whenever they could.  It was so ingrained in my head I was scared stiff of the stuff so I stayed away from it. At the end of the day pretty much everyone I know didn't end up some junkie and did fine with there lives. Most of them it was just a phase.  So like a few others I am warming up to the idea of legalizing it and taxing the hell out of it like cigarettes and alcohol. My concerns having 4 kids is the synthetic drugs on the rise and being sold/solicited to kids as other things. Free up the prisons/jails with the pot smokers but throw the book at anyone that cons kids.  Perhaps legalizing would also slow down the need for these synthetics to continue to be on the rise. Bit off topic but seems like alot of discussion on Pot on here. And yes i tried it more than once when i was younger an inhaled. Just wasn't my thing.
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popsy13

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2014, 02:12:06 AM »
I would like to say that the end is near. We are heading towards another world war or war within own country (between own people and government).

devan 11

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Re: Prison Populations In the USA
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2014, 09:36:09 PM »
  I don't have any answers but I do know that the pot from the 60's isn't anything like what is now sold.  Thank the war on drugs, paraquat, and plant hybrids to create the unintended consequences of much more potent cannabis.

The problems that I see involve white meth abusers.  I sold my 'starter' home of forty years today.  Meth sellers and break-ins drove me out. Shake and bake bottles, ripped open lithium batteries, with the sharp edges from steel casings were thrown in my yard by meth heads.  I have small grandkids that would play there!

I've seen what happens to people that get trapped by that stuff (meth).  They cannot be believed nor trusted.  My personal solution is to cut users out of my life.I don't have any sympathy for someone who is gets others on that crap.