Politicians sleeping in office. Mustachian or Nasty?

[the_fixer]

This article popped up on my phone today and this was the first time I had heard that many politicians in DC sleep in their office. It was interesting reading the arguments for and against it.

www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/03/06/democrats-sleeping-capitol-crackdown-431969

No commute
Can get more work done
Not needlessly spending money
Sleeping on a cot FTW



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[I'm a red panda]

That is interesting. I wouldn't have really thought of the misuse of funds angle; though I can see where it comes from, because it becomes personal use.

However, I also think that requiring lawmakers to have a separate residence is something that means only really rich people can become lawmakers.  If someone wants to sleep on a cot in their office instead of having two residences (because they have to have one at home). That seems okay to me.

I don't see it as being gross at all.

[Caroline PF]

Yeah, this seems to be a very partisan play, aimed at partisan values. (Republican voters like fiscal conservatives, or in other words, those who can/will save money. So sleeping in your office is a signal* to voters that they are serious about saving voters' money). So a group of democrats are trying to block a group of republicans from signalling to and appealing to their voter base. I don't buy the misuse of funds argument. Presumably the offices would get cleaned, and would be heated whether or not they slept in them.

*Note that most politicians signal the values that will get them/keep them elected, without actually governing based on those values.

On the other hand, I do believe that those complaining are grossed out by the practice, or alternately, think that the voters would be grossed out by it.

“There’s something unsanitary about bringing people to your office who are talking about public policy where you spent the night, and that’s unhealthy, unsanitary — and some people would say it’s almost nasty,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, the top Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee.

The Democratic critics argue that the behavior is unethical and beneath the dignity of the office.

I assume that those who are grossed out by visiting an office where someone slept on a cot, would be equally grossed out to visit someone's home where multiple people sleep every night. Or to sit on a couch, because someone might have slept on it after a fight. /s


Apart from the political angle, I think it's mustachian, not gross. They have decided to not to spend their personal money on the personal luxury of having a separate apartment. Others will spend extra for that luxury. Both groups are right, in that they are choosing their own comfort level.

[Travis]

Members of Congress (especially junior members) sleeping in their offices is nothing new. I first learned about it in high school in the early 90s.  Maintaining a domicile in D.C. and back in their home district can be quite expensive.  As far as the unsanitary bit, if they keep a clean office and take care of their laundry and hygiene somewhere else you shouldn't even be aware that they sleep in that room.

[Gin1984]

The reason the congressional gym employees were considered essential (which did cost taxpayers) was because GOP members who live in their offices use it to shower and take care of their hygiene.  So taxpayers are paying more for them if they live in their office.  I don't see that as frugal but as cheap.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

Partisan nonsense.  Crashing at the office isn’t unusual in some professions.  It shouldn’t be unusual for non-career politicians either.

[maizefolk]

With all of the things wrong with our country THIS is what some people in congress think it makes sense to spend time and money on?

DC is an expensive city. If you don't want congresspeople sleeping in their offices, set up an onsite hostel with bunkbeds and showers. It'd probably cost a lot less than this ridiculous lawsuit and, as others have posted upthread, would lower at least one barrier to a more diverse and less wealthy cross-section of americans representing all of us in congress (although it's clearly not the MAIN barrier to that).

[seattlecyclone]

If the folks sleeping in their offices are somehow able to secure extra office space to sleep in, then sure, the naysayers have a point. The Congressmen in this situation are getting the taxpayers to buy their residence for free. But if the office-sleepers get the same amount of office space as the non-office-sleepers, I fail to see how there's any significant extra expense here. That space would be allocated to the representative whether there's a cot in there or not.

[wenchsenior]

Leave it to Dems to shoot themselves in the foot by trying to make non issues like this into issues. :sigh:

[Cromacster]

With all of the things wrong with our country THIS is what some people in congress think it makes sense to spend time and money on?

DC is an expensive city. If you don't want congresspeople sleeping in their offices, set up an onsite hostel with bunkbeds and showers. It'd probably cost a lot less than this ridiculous lawsuit and, as others have posted upthread, would lower at least one barrier to a more diverse and less wealthy cross-section of americans representing all of us in congress (although it's clearly not the MAIN barrier to that).

I am kinda surprised they don't have some sort of short term housing for lawmakers.  Overall, I have no issue with them sleeping in their office.  It annoys me more they are waisting their time on pursuing this. 

The person interviewed or quoted for this article is trying to make themselves and others to be a victim.  Ugh, so much about this article bothers me.

"forced to live outside of the campus"
"unfair to the hundreds of members who choose to live outside the Capitol paying Washington’s high living costs"

Democrats have been losing their damn mind for the past 16 years (saying this as a former democrat).

[Prairie Stash]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

[BlueHouse]

I am absolutely, completely and out-of-proportion pissed about this practice and I have been for years.  Here are some of my reasons(in random order):

1.  It costs more for cleaning and security when members of congress use Federal Office Buildings for personal use.  You realize they are getting cleaned up after DAILY.  Like a hotel.  They need to pay to defer some of that cost.  Or they need to clean their own stubble out of the sink at the gym.
2.  Members of Congress need to follow the rules that all other citizens follow with very few exceptions.  (I am not allowed to sleep in my federally owned workplace, so neither should they)
3.  The economy of DC depends on the Federal Government and part of that is MOC from out of state renting or buying homes, and visiting retail establishments.  The sleepers aren't paying into DC what they should be.
4.  I live less than a mile from the Capitol and have an ensuite guest room that I would gladly open up (for free) for a MOC on a yearly basis.  I know HUNDREDS of other people who would do the same because we feel it is a decent thing to do.  I would offer it in a second if I actually got a tax deduction for it or even if I just got free housecleaning for it. 
5.  MOCs buy properties here and then immediately rent them out at high prices.  Even the junior MoCs.  Yeah, they can afford it!
6.  More than anything else:  MOCs make and overrule the laws of the District of Columbia everyday.  They sit in their Ivory tower and assume to know what is best for us and yet they don't come out and mingle with the people.  It is infuriating to cast a vote that overwhelmingly supports an issue, just to have a few asshats in congress (Jason Chafetz when he was still here, Marco Rubio) tell us they know better than we do.  If Marco Rubio wants to pass gun legislation in DC that lowers the age to purchase assault rifles, while he's telling the rest of the country the opposite, then he should have to get out among the people of this district and tell us so to our faces.  I want to see him at the lunch counter and I want to shop next to him at the Safeway.   

[Kris]

I am absolutely, completely and out-of-proportion pissed about this practice and I have been for years.  Here are some of my reasons(in random order):

1.  It costs more for cleaning and security when members of congress use Federal Office Buildings for personal use.  You realize they are getting cleaned up after DAILY.  Like a hotel.  They need to pay to defer some of that cost.  Or they need to clean their own stubble out of the sink at the gym.
2.  Members of Congress need to follow the rules that all other citizens follow with very few exceptions.  (I am not allowed to sleep in my federally owned workplace, so neither should they)
3.  The economy of DC depends on the Federal Government and part of that is MOC from out of state renting or buying homes, and visiting retail establishments.  The sleepers aren't paying into DC what they should be.
4.  I live less than a mile from the Capitol and have an ensuite guest room that I would gladly open up (for free) for a MOC on a yearly basis.  I know HUNDREDS of other people who would do the same because we feel it is a decent thing to do.  I would offer it in a second if I actually got a tax deduction for it or even if I just got free housecleaning for it. 
5.  MOCs buy properties here and then immediately rent them out at high prices.  Even the junior MoCs.  Yeah, they can afford it!
6.  More than anything else:  MOCs make and overrule the laws of the District of Columbia everyday.  They sit in their Ivory tower and assume to know what is best for us and yet they don't come out and mingle with the people.  It is infuriating to cast a vote that overwhelmingly supports an issue, just to have a few asshats in congress (Jason Chafetz when he was still here, Marco Rubio) tell us they know better than we do.  If Marco Rubio wants to pass gun legislation in DC that lowers the age to purchase assault rifles, while he's telling the rest of the country the opposite, then he should have to get out among the people of this district and tell us so to our faces.  I want to see him at the lunch counter and I want to shop next to him at the Safeway.

This is good perspective, thanks. I have always been pretty convinced it was a non-issue until I read this.

[partgypsy]

When I first heard this, I thought thrifty. But i'm a government employee, and there is no way I would be allowed to do this, even if it did make me more "efficient." you are not allowed to do this at government facilities.  If 100's of people are doing this, then it is enough pattern to address it. Either legalize it, even if it means those people pay a fee or "rent" for doing so, or offer close by hostel like bed facilities, or something. It should be addressed.

[I'm a red panda]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

It has nothing to do with them working late. Everyone does that. It has to do with them using it as a primary residence. As in- they don't have an actual residence.  It's not occasional, it's where they sleep in DC.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

It has nothing to do with them working late. Everyone does that. It has to do with them using it as a primary residence. As in- they don't have an actual residence.  It's not occasional, it's where they sleep in DC.

they aren’t really supposed to live in D.C.

[I'm a red panda]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

It has nothing to do with them working late. Everyone does that. It has to do with them using it as a primary residence. As in- they don't have an actual residence.  It's not occasional, it's where they sleep in DC.

they aren’t really supposed to live in D.C.

Absolutely they are, when in session.
They are expected to maintain a residence in DC.

[Midwest]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

It has nothing to do with them working late. Everyone does that. It has to do with them using it as a primary residence. As in- they don't have an actual residence.  It's not occasional, it's where they sleep in DC.

they aren’t really supposed to live in D.C.

Absolutely they are, when in session.
They are expected to maintain a residence in DC.

They are expected to be in D.C. when necessary to do their jobs.  I presume they maintain a full time residence in the district they serve.  If the cost of the housecleaning and utilities is truly that much, charge for the actual cost. 

If they truly are representing their constituents, they should be spending a good portion of time at home anyway.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

I've slept in my office on occasion. I did it when I was too tired to drive home and kept on working when I woke up. Many studies over the years have pointed out that driving home exhausted is comparable to drunk driving, in my youth I passed out at the wheel after pulling several long shifts without sleep between. No alcohol was involved, pure exhaustion. Since then I tend to sleep random places rather than risk an accident.

Are Americans really this concerned with people working late into the night? Are the dems afraid that the republicans are putting in too many hours at the office and making them look bad in comparison?

It has nothing to do with them working late. Everyone does that. It has to do with them using it as a primary residence. As in- they don't have an actual residence.  It's not occasional, it's where they sleep in DC.

they aren’t really supposed to live in D.C.

Absolutely they are, when in session.
They are expected to maintain a residence in DC.

That’s really not accurate.  The only place they’re expected to maintain a residence is their district as that impacts their qualification for the job.  Having a place in D.C. is associated with career politicians.

[I'm a red panda]

Where do you suppose freshman legislators should live when in session? They don't stay in hotels. They are expected to have a DC residence when in session.

[Chris22]

I am absolutely, completely and out-of-proportion pissed about this practice and I have been for years.  Here are some of my reasons(in random order):

1.  It costs more for cleaning and security when members of congress use Federal Office Buildings for personal use.  You realize they are getting cleaned up after DAILY.  Like a hotel.  They need to pay to defer some of that cost.  Or they need to clean their own stubble out of the sink at the gym.
2.  Members of Congress need to follow the rules that all other citizens follow with very few exceptions.  (I am not allowed to sleep in my federally owned workplace, so neither should they)
3.  The economy of DC depends on the Federal Government and part of that is MOC from out of state renting or buying homes, and visiting retail establishments.  The sleepers aren't paying into DC what they should be.
4.  I live less than a mile from the Capitol and have an ensuite guest room that I would gladly open up (for free) for a MOC on a yearly basis.  I know HUNDREDS of other people who would do the same because we feel it is a decent thing to do.  I would offer it in a second if I actually got a tax deduction for it or even if I just got free housecleaning for it. 
5.  MOCs buy properties here and then immediately rent them out at high prices.  Even the junior MoCs.  Yeah, they can afford it!
6.  More than anything else:  MOCs make and overrule the laws of the District of Columbia everyday.  They sit in their Ivory tower and assume to know what is best for us and yet they don't come out and mingle with the people.  It is infuriating to cast a vote that overwhelmingly supports an issue, just to have a few asshats in congress (Jason Chafetz when he was still here, Marco Rubio) tell us they know better than we do.  If Marco Rubio wants to pass gun legislation in DC that lowers the age to purchase assault rifles, while he's telling the rest of the country the opposite, then he should have to get out among the people of this district and tell us so to our faces.  I want to see him at the lunch counter and I want to shop next to him at the Safeway.

1 is immaterial (they are going to have daily janitor service either way)
2 is sorta true, but military members sleep at work all the time.  Do you really want to live in your office that badly?
3-5 seem specious, politically motivated, or just plain sour grapes (“I can’t profit off of renting to them!”)

[BlueHouse]

1 is immaterial (they are going to have daily janitor service either way)
2 is sorta true, but military members sleep at work all the time.  Do you really want to live in your office that badly?
3-5 seem specious, politically motivated, or just plain sour grapes (“I can’t profit off of renting to them!”)

1.  Dusting and throwing away trash is much different than wiping down someone's sleepy ass-crack sweat.  Or their dirty hair, razor stubble, toothpaste in the sink, hair on the floor, etc. 
2.  I want them to live by the same rules that other federal employees do.  I also think they should have the same insurance as other feds, and the same pension as feds.  When they are treated different, they ACT different and think they are above the law.
3-5.  I am angry and admitted as much in my earlier comment.  I was never so angry at a politician as I was at Paul Ryan during his 60 Minutes interview when he pointed out the window of his office in the capitol and said "There's the problem".  Well, he was pointing out into the National Mall, at the statues of Grant and the monuments to Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson.  And the memorials for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.  No, Mr. Speaker, "there" is NOT the problem.  Point at yourself and your cronies and THERE is the problem.   

[partgypsy]

1 is immaterial (they are going to have daily janitor service either way)
2 is sorta true, but military members sleep at work all the time.  Do you really want to live in your office that badly?
3-5 seem specious, politically motivated, or just plain sour grapes (“I can’t profit off of renting to them!”)

1.  Dusting and throwing away trash is much different than wiping down someone's sleepy ass-crack sweat.  Or their dirty hair, razor stubble, toothpaste in the sink, hair on the floor, etc. 
2.  I want them to live by the same rules that other federal employees do.  I also think they should have the same insurance as other feds, and the same pension as feds.  When they are treated different, they ACT different and think they are above the law.
3-5.  I am angry and admitted as much in my earlier comment.  I was never so angry at a politician as I was at Paul Ryan during his 60 Minutes interview when he pointed out the window of his office in the capitol and said "There's the problem".  Well, he was pointing out into the National Mall, at the statues of Grant and the monuments to Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson.  And the memorials for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.  No, Mr. Speaker, "there" is NOT the problem.  Point at yourself and your cronies and THERE is the problem.

I have lost respect for Paul Ryan about a dozen times at this point. Hypocrite thy name is Ryan.

[KBecks]

Maybe they could share a big brother house or something.  Honestly, I don't care where the politicians sleep. 

[Just Joe]

Setup some military style barracks for them. Four people to a room, four rooms share a lounge area. One or two bathrooms. Daily inspections. The politicians stay and clean until it passes inspections. Seriously. Not realistic but I'm serious.

If they don't like it then they can stay elsewhere out of pocket. Of course I'm sure political donors would begin to pay their condo rent.

[BlueHouse]

Maybe they could share a big brother house or something.  Honestly, I don't care where the politicians sleep.

This house where Chuck Schumer used to live with other Senators is a few blocks from where I live.  It was rather dilapidated looking until recently.  I think they may have moved out or sold it.  I find hilarious the part where the roomates ask Schumer why he bothers to ever take off his suit, since he's just going to put it on again the next day.  (also, note it was written by Jake Tapper, long before he was a household name)

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Politics/story?id=2942649&page=1

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/03/nyregion/chuck-s-place.html

Setup some military style barracks for them. Four people to a room, four rooms share a lounge area. One or two bathrooms. Daily inspections. The politicians stay and clean until it passes inspections. Seriously. Not realistic but I'm serious.

If they don't like it then they can stay elsewhere out of pocket. Of course I'm sure political donors would begin to pay their condo rent.

There's actually an old dormitory/apartment building a few blocks from the Capitol that was used to house Congressional pages until the page program was discontinued in 2011. It was the Page Residence Hall.  It's still vacant.  Part of me thinks this would be perfect, but part of me thinks it would be so full of bad behavior, that it's too dangerous to throw in normal people with some of the truly degenerate members. 

[mm1970]

Setup some military style barracks for them. Four people to a room, four rooms share a lounge area. One or two bathrooms. Daily inspections. The politicians stay and clean until it passes inspections. Seriously. Not realistic but I'm serious.

If they don't like it then they can stay elsewhere out of pocket. Of course I'm sure political donors would begin to pay their condo rent.

And charge them for it.  Like a hostel.  $25 a night.

[Just Joe]

Maybe they could share a big brother house or something.  Honestly, I don't care where the politicians sleep.

This house where Chuck Schumer used to live with other Senators is a few blocks from where I live.  It was rather dilapidated looking until recently.  I think they may have moved out or sold it.  I find hilarious the part where the roomates ask Schumer why he bothers to ever take off his suit, since he's just going to put it on again the next day.  (also, note it was written by Jake Tapper, long before he was a household name)

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Politics/story?id=2942649&page=1

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/03/nyregion/chuck-s-place.html

Setup some military style barracks for them. Four people to a room, four rooms share a lounge area. One or two bathrooms. Daily inspections. The politicians stay and clean until it passes inspections. Seriously. Not realistic but I'm serious.

If they don't like it then they can stay elsewhere out of pocket. Of course I'm sure political donors would begin to pay their condo rent.

There's actually an old dormitory/apartment building a few blocks from the Capitol that was used to house Congressional pages until the page program was discontinued in 2011. It was the Page Residence Hall.  It's still vacant.  Part of me thinks this would be perfect, but part of me thinks it would be so full of bad behavior, that it's too dangerous to throw in normal people with some of the truly degenerate members.

That sounds perfect. Charge them like mm1970 said. I also agree with you - bad behavior would quickly follow.

[mm1970]

Honestly this whole thread was pretty eye-opening.

My first thought was "yay, mustachianism!"  Much like people who live "alternatively" - in vans, RVs, or the Google guy who had the truck in the parking lot, or the "Walden on Wheels" guy, or people who sleep in the office.

But, this thread got me thinking, again, about privilege.

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Many of the people I've known to live on boats, RVs, busses, etc, have done it somewhat legally.  They owned a boat and a slip in the harbor.  They had permission at work to park the RV in the parking lot and shower at work.  They lived in a 5th wheel parked on a relative's property.  They lived in a bus and paid space rent to park it in a small industrial area.

When you move on to ... parking your van or RV in front of someone's house - where you are bothering them, making it hard for them to pull out of the driveway, etc. it starts to bug me.  Why should you live for free?  When you start dumping your crap (literally) into the system without paying for it...why is that okay?  Why is it okay for you to pitch a tent in the woods behind juvie?  Life isn't free.  Likewise, these Congressmen shouldn't be allowed to use their privilege like this.

Which is why a hostel-like option - reasonably priced, seems fair.  You want a bed, here it is.  You have to pay for it.  It's not going to be comfortable.

I've been doing a lot of reading on poverty and homelessness of late, and things ... they frustrate me.  And Paul Ryan is a tool.

[I'm a red panda]

Which is why a hostel-like option - reasonably priced, seems fair.  You want a bed, here it is.  You have to pay for it.  It's not going to be comfortable.

Agree.
Heck, or charge them a fee for using their office as living space- that compensates the tax payers for clean up, for utilities, etc.

[Midwest]

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Congressmen are elected officials not employees. Not a big fan of politicians in general, but these are completely different things in my opinion.

[mm1970]

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Congressmen are elected officials not employees. Not a big fan of politicians in general, but these are completely different things in my opinion.

They collect a (rather large) paycheck from the taxpayers.
They are eligible for pensions under FERS (the federal system).

They are public employees.  Albeit ones who can be fired more easily than other federal employees.

If other federal employees are not allowed to live in the building, they cannot either.

[Midwest]

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Congressmen are elected officials not employees. Not a big fan of politicians in general, but these are completely different things in my opinion.

They collect a (rather large) paycheck from the taxpayers.
They are eligible for pensions under FERS (the federal system).

They are public employees.  Albeit ones who can be fired more easily than other federal employees.

If other federal employees are not allowed to live in the building, they cannot either.

So is the president, yet he lives in a govt building.  If we want them to pay the additional incremental cost incurred due to their residence, I'm fine with that.  All congresspersons are welcome to live in their office in my opinion.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

MoC makes between 174-200k/yr according to google.

If you don't want corrupt politicians, and if you allow for single earner household:

It's at least $1k/mo rent within mustachian distances of the capitol building, for some places most in this forum wouldn't be willing to live.

To get a typical American style apartment, decent, or close to mass transit, expect closer to $3k/mo.

That's based on three minutes of searching on zillow, so I'm, you know, kind of an expert.

So a member from a rural district who maintains a house for their spouse/children, and who is not a career politician, I don't find it to be an unreasonable claim that they couldn't find affordable accomodation.

The reality is that it doesn't cost more for cleaning to have them living in the office.  Numerous times people have brought up cleaning the sinks because of shave leavings/toothpaste at the gym.  Every gym I've ever used has that same problem and not because people live there.  If you work out before work it's a huge time saver to do that at the gym.

This is a non-issue, related to a massively inflated cost of living at the capitol due in no small part to the rampant corruption that has gone unchecked for decades, if not centuries.

MoC sleeping in their offices is not the problem, it is a symptom of the problem.

And as per usual, the Democrat solution will only make it worse.

There's no doubt some MoC using it to virtue signal to constituents, but really?  Take it from someone who's lived in a tent since Harvey, this is bullshit and you wouldn't do it if you had other good options.

MoC is a good gig, I'd take it if I could get it, that lifetime healthcare/pension thing is..mmm...delicious.  But everything about DC is designed to corrupt incoming politicians as thoroughly as possible, as quickly as possible.  Sleeping in their offices is probably the only way these guys can even pretend to still represent their district, and not whatever corporate overlord is paying their rent.

[Dicey]

MoC makes between 174-200k/yr according to google.

If you don't want corrupt politicians, and if you allow for single earner household:

It's at least $1k/mo rent within mustachian distances of the capitol building, for some places most in this forum wouldn't be willing to live.

To get a typical American style apartment, decent, or close to mass transit, expect closer to $3k/mo.

That's based on three minutes of searching on zillow, so I'm, you know, kind of an expert.

So a member from a rural district who maintains a house for their spouse/children, and who is not a career politician, I don't find it to be an unreasonable claim that they couldn't find affordable accomodation.

The reality is that it doesn't cost more for cleaning to have them living in the office.  Numerous times people have brought up cleaning the sinks because of shave leavings/toothpaste at the gym.  Every gym I've ever used has that same problem and not because people live there.  If you work out before work it's a huge time saver to do that at the gym.

This is a non-issue, related to a massively inflated cost of living at the capitol due in no small part to the rampant corruption that has gone unchecked for decades, if not centuries.

MoC sleeping in their offices is not the problem, it is a symptom of the problem.

And as per usual, the Democrat solution will only make it worse.

There's no doubt some MoC using it to virtue signal to constituents, but really?  Take it from someone who's lived in a tent since Harvey, this is bullshit and you wouldn't do it if you had other good options.

MoC is a good gig, I'd take it if I could get it, that lifetime healthcare/pension thing is..mmm...delicious.  But everything about DC is designed to corrupt incoming politicians as thoroughly as possible, as quickly as possible.  Sleeping in their offices is probably the only way these guys can even pretend to still represent their district, and not whatever corporate overlord is paying their rent.

^All of this ^. Any other solution would cost a shitload of money. Also, remember they are not living in their offices full time.

The less time they spend worrying about finding a place in DC, furnishing it, dealing with keeping the place going, commuting back and forth to work, etc. is more time that they can devote to doing the jobs they were elected to do.

Does anyone really believe they like sleeping in their office? I don't think so.

And bluehouse's rant post? Total head scratcher.

[mm1970]

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Congressmen are elected officials not employees. Not a big fan of politicians in general, but these are completely different things in my opinion.

They collect a (rather large) paycheck from the taxpayers.
They are eligible for pensions under FERS (the federal system).

They are public employees.  Albeit ones who can be fired more easily than other federal employees.

If other federal employees are not allowed to live in the building, they cannot either.

So is the president, yet he lives in a govt building.  If we want them to pay the additional incremental cost incurred due to their residence, I'm fine with that.  All congresspersons are welcome to live in their office in my opinion.

He lives in a house, and I assume it is zoned residential.

[Zap]

Fun fact: living in the White House isn't totally free.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/10/politics/presidential-debt/index.html

[Midwest]

Congressmen should not be held to a lower standard than any other government employee.  Can a regular employee live in their office?  No.
Also, the person who made the point about cleaning up after someone - good point.

Congressmen are elected officials not employees. Not a big fan of politicians in general, but these are completely different things in my opinion.

They collect a (rather large) paycheck from the taxpayers.
They are eligible for pensions under FERS (the federal system).

They are public employees.  Albeit ones who can be fired more easily than other federal employees.

If other federal employees are not allowed to live in the building, they cannot either.

So is the president, yet he lives in a govt building.  If we want them to pay the additional incremental cost incurred due to their residence, I'm fine with that.  All congresspersons are welcome to live in their office in my opinion.

He lives in a house, and I assume it is zoned residential.

So if we rezone their offices is everyone happy? 

Govt employees are allowed to move to their job location.  MOC's are supposed to continue to maintain a residence and be in DC for some portion of the year.  I can't imagine sleeping in your office is the height of luxury and I suspect the incremental costs are fairly negligible. 

Oldest young man's analysis is spot on.

[Travis]

MoC is a good gig, I'd take it if I could get it, that lifetime healthcare/pension thing is..mmm...delicious. 

I can't speak to their healthcare after they leave Congress, but if you're referring to MoC receiving full lifetime salaries - it is a myth.  Members of Congress pay into the same 401K system that every other federal employee gets.  They vest after 5 years.  That being said, members of Congress have a tendency to stay in the job a long time so their pensions (combined with SSI eligibility) look really nice when they're out.

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/

[BlueHouse]

Does anyone really believe they like sleeping in their office? I don't think so.

And bluehouse's rant? Total head scratcher.

Dicey, I think calling someone else's comments a "rant" is pretty offensive, and similar in tone to calling women "hysterical" and I'm tired of you belittling people whose opinions you don't share.  So why don't you knock it off? 

MOD EDIT: Please report posts you find breaking forum rules. Do not post personal attacks in an attempt to stop them. Cheers!

Yes.  Paul Ryan has said as much that he likes sleeping in his office.  When MoC from other states purport to represent me as a resident of the district, then they should live what they're pushing.  Marco Rubio introduced legislation that will greatly reduce the restrictions on who can own and carry a gun in the district, but these guys don't walk the streets.  They should. 

[RetiredAt63]

BlueHouse, it depends on the rant.  Rick Mercer's rants* are the best part of his show.  I think your rant was great.  Topics that deserve/need rants should get rants. 

Now I am wondering what our MPs and MPPs do.  Toronto is super expensive, Victoria is not as bad as Vancouver but still pricey, Ottawa is not too bad.

*Google Rick Mercer rants - priceless

[TexasRunner]

From the article:

“Members who sleep overnight in their offices receive free lodging, free cable, free security, free cleaning services, and utilize other utilities free of charge in direct violation of the ethics rules which prohibit official resources from being used for personal purposes,” the letter to the Ethics Committee states.

Members who sleep overnight in their offices receive free lodging,
The building is going to be there either way,

free cable,
Already part of the office, unless somehow they get charged more for using it at nights?...

free security,
The building has to be secured either way...

free cleaning services,
As Acroy stated, tons of gyms have people prep at the gym.  Its just easier and a typical cost.

and utilize other utilities free of charge in direct violation of the ethics rules which prohibit official resources from being used for personal purposes,
So, what, they shower once a day...  At the GYM?  How could they?



Sounds to me like its more a problem of high rates of rent in DC and not anyone's fault.  I am failing to see how this is actually costing the government any money at all.  If someone points that out, maybe I can get on board.

[sequoia]

From the article:

“Members who sleep overnight in their offices receive free lodging, free cable, free security, free cleaning services, and utilize other utilities free of charge in direct violation of the ethics rules which prohibit official resources from being used for personal purposes,” the letter to the Ethics Committee states.

Members who sleep overnight in their offices receive free lodging,
The building is going to be there either way,

free cable,
Already part of the office, unless somehow they get charged more for using it at nights?...

free security,
The building has to be secured either way...

free cleaning services,
As Acroy stated, tons of gyms have people prep at the gym.  Its just easier and a typical cost.

and utilize other utilities free of charge in direct violation of the ethics rules which prohibit official resources from being used for personal purposes,
So, what, they shower once a day...  At the GYM?  How could they?



Sounds to me like its more a problem of high rates of rent in DC and not anyone's fault.  I am failing to see how this is actually costing the government any money at all.  If someone points that out, maybe I can get on board.

+1. From my understanding, these people sleeping in the office is due to their work, right? For whatever reason, they do not have another house/apartment in DC. A heck a lot better than getting tax payer to provide free housing for each one of them.

It is not like these folks are going to play golf over the weekend 5 states away, and use government's jet for pleasure.

[wenchsenior]

MoC makes between 174-200k/yr according to google.

If you don't want corrupt politicians, and if you allow for single earner household:

It's at least $1k/mo rent within mustachian distances of the capitol building, for some places most in this forum wouldn't be willing to live.

To get a typical American style apartment, decent, or close to mass transit, expect closer to $3k/mo.

That's based on three minutes of searching on zillow, so I'm, you know, kind of an expert.

So a member from a rural district who maintains a house for their spouse/children, and who is not a career politician, I don't find it to be an unreasonable claim that they couldn't find affordable accomodation.

The reality is that it doesn't cost more for cleaning to have them living in the office.  Numerous times people have brought up cleaning the sinks because of shave leavings/toothpaste at the gym.  Every gym I've ever used has that same problem and not because people live there.  If you work out before work it's a huge time saver to do that at the gym.

This is a non-issue, related to a massively inflated cost of living at the capitol due in no small part to the rampant corruption that has gone unchecked for decades, if not centuries.
+++

MoC is a good gig, I'd take it if I could get it, that lifetime healthcare/pension thing is..mmm...delicious.  But everything about DC is designed to corrupt incoming politicians as thoroughly as possible, as quickly as possible.  Sleeping in their offices is probably the only way these guys can even pretend to still represent their district, and not whatever corporate overlord is paying their rent.

You make a really good point about costs of renting in DC.

I actually have done quite a bit of reading about this subject, which I find interesting. 

1) Congressional salaries sound huge until you consider cost of renting a place while still maintaining a home in the place you represent.  There is a reason senators tend to come from the very wealthy end of the spectrum.

2) A lot of House Reps, who often are not wealthy (initially anyway), and some Senators do in fact live in 'group rentals' to cut down on costs associated with the job.  I have read a number of accounts of the rather unpleasant state some of these 'congressional frat' houses can get into. One presumes that some reps, depending on personality type and the mix of people available to live with, would in fact prefer to stay in their offices.  And I don't blame them at all.  I wouldn't want to rent a house with a bunch of other people.

3)  The criticisms of sleeping in one's publicly funded office have some validity IMO, and the idea to provide federally subsidized barracks for reasonable rent is one I hadn't thought of.  That could work, because you could set up some enforceable rules for basic behavior and cleanliness.

4) However, apart from that, the only real answer is providing congresspeople with more money.  Presumably, most taxpayers aren't too excited about the idea of increasing congressional salaries to compensate for housing costs, because that would result in (potentially) inflated pension calculations down the road.   

5)  So I think providing a housing voucher of some sort, separate from other compensation and pegged to local rental rates, might also be a reasonable compromise.   Paul Ryan loves vouchers, so he should be all for it at least.

*SIDE NOTE* As was pointed out above, Congresspeople do NOT get their salaries and free healthcare for life. While we are on the subject of congressional myths, they also don't have a track record of voting themselves raises every year while leaving military and civilian feds out in the cold, etc.  (I think that one stems from a couple times this happened back in the 50s or 60s...people have long memories apparently).

Congress has the same retirement package as all civilian feds do, except I believe they are now subject to buying healthcare on the Obamacare exchanges while civilians are on the group health insurance plan.  Assuming they began serving after the  early 1980s, congresspeople pay into SS, have access to the 401K equivalent, and their pension is based on 3 high salary and years served, when they meet eligibility and age rules to take it.

[BlueHouse]

BlueHouse, it depends on the rant.  Rick Mercer's rants* are the best part of his show.  I think your rant was great.  Topics that deserve/need rants should get rants. 

Now I am wondering what our MPs and MPPs do.  Toronto is super expensive, Victoria is not as bad as Vancouver but still pricey, Ottawa is not too bad.

*Google Rick Mercer rants - priceless

Thanks @RetiredAt63.  Feeling better now.  Shouldn't have let that get under my skin.

And as per usual, the Democrat solution will only make it worse.

???  How did this become a Democrat/Republican issue?  I feel this way regardless of who is doing it.  It just so happens that, as someone upstream said, Paul Ryan IS a tool.  So my ire is directed at him because he brought more focus to this -- despite his being massively wealthy and completely able to afford anything he wants.

As for the expense of renting close by....haven't you all seen?  According to the EPA's counsel,  $50/ occupied night is reasonable rent for full use of a 2 bedroom condo a block from the capitol (if you're Scott Pruitt renting from an Energy lobbyist) 

[Dicey]

Does anyone really believe they like sleeping in their office? I don't think so.

And bluehouse's rant post? Total head scratcher.

Dicey, I think calling someone else's comments a "rant" is pretty offensive, and similar in tone to calling women "hysterical" and I'm tired of you belittling people whose opinions you don't share.  So why don't you knock it off?

@BlueHouse, the word rant is entirely gender neutral, so not all that similar, IMO. However, your accusations sting. Feel free to politely share examples that exemplify this accused behavior and I will thoughtfully re-examine my comments on said topics.

[KBecks]

It's the internet people.  Different people have different views.  You don't get to shout each other down.

[Roadrunner53]

I always thought they got a stipend for lodging but some preferred to pocket the money. Am I wrong about that?

I personally don't like the idea of them sleeping in the office. I worked for a very well known giant corporation and the building I worked in was huge. I am sure people could have found places to sleep in it but never heard of anyone who did. If they choose to take a job, then find a place to sleep on their own dime. Our employer is not our landlord. Our government buildings are not meant to be flophouses for hobo's.

It has nothing to do with them liking sleeping in their office, it is all about being cheap and not spending money. Yes, housing is expensive there.

[BlueHouse]

I always thought they got a stipend for lodging but some preferred to pocket the money. Am I wrong about that?

I personally don't like the idea of them sleeping in the office. I worked for a very well known giant corporation and the building I worked in was huge. I am sure people could have found places to sleep in it but never heard of anyone who did. If they choose to take a job, then find a place to sleep on their own dime. Our employer is not our landlord. Our government buildings are not meant to be flophouses for hobo's.

It has nothing to do with them liking sleeping in their office, it is all about being cheap and not spending money. Yes, housing is expensive there.

In the old days, they were expected to live here 6 or 8 months, but now they get stipends for travel back to home districts. Not sure about housing stipends. 

[wenchsenior]

It is interesting how the cross pressures from opposing tax payer desires come into play in this problem.  On the one hand, (the generic) we probably think congresspeople get paid plenty and aren't interested in notably boosting their income.  On the other hand, (the generic) we also get annoyed when only wealthy people who can afford to maintain multiple residences (at least one of which is in a HCOL city) run for office because we view them as out of touch with lower and middle income Americans.