Pig Butchering Scam

[iris lily]

I wasn't familiar with the term "Pig Butchering" in this context so I pulled up Wikipedia and this was in the first paragraph:

"In October 2023, 12% of Americans using dating apps had been victims, up from 5% in 2018."

That's a startlingly high number to me, one that presumably doesn't include a whole lot of 70 and 80 year olds since it's just dating apps.

When you've been taken in by a scam you feel like an idiot.  People tend to be quite hesitant to broadcast things that make them look and feel stupid.  You might not hear much about these scams, but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were actually higher than reported.

Just wait until AI takes over, and makes today's pig butchering and spearphishing attempts look like Nigerian prince mass-emails.

The AI will get to know you and your friends, measure your and their characteristics across hundreds of variables, merge data about you from hundreds of sources, create a psychological profile, and calculate the exact scam that you'll fall for with the same effectiveness as YouTube, Facebook, or TikTok can guess the next video their users will engage in. Instead of recycling a handful of scams we can name, the AI will come up with a custom approach to fit the vulnerabilities of your particular brain, and it might not look like anything you've seen or imagined before.

To say we won't all get scammed is like saying you've never been sucked into a loop of algorithmically-selected content. Imagine if it's not just your child's voice and video image on the phone asking for a money transfer, but they also know all your information, can respond with the same intonation and cadence as the real person, and know the answer to any question you might ask. The stuff destroying people today is primitive compared to what's coming.

If the internet was developed to facilitate porn, AI will be developed to facilitate scams. Think about that if you are worried about the machines eventually turning on us. They will be built to harm people in the first place.

This is exactly what I was saying above, AI will figure me out sooner or later and appeal directly in intimately targeted ways to my particular persona.

I think it’s likely I will be dead by then, but maybe not. We shall see.

But that said, I am so annoyed at how clunky “targeted “ ads are that come to my social medias and emails. They’re just so stupid. They think they’re showing me things I want but they are not. I would actually welcome super targeted ads serving up exactly what I’m interested in.

[GuitarStv]

But that said, I am so annoyed at how clunky “targeted “ ads are that come to my social medias and emails. They’re just so stupid. They think they’re showing me things I want but they are not. I would actually welcome super targeted ads serving up exactly what I’m interested in.

Run an ad blocker, and use your email spam filters.  Between the two of these I've radically reduced my exposure to advertisements.  It's a better way to live.

[Luke Warm]

But that said, I am so annoyed at how clunky “targeted “ ads are that come to my social medias and emails. They’re just so stupid. They think they’re showing me things I want but they are not. I would actually welcome super targeted ads serving up exactly what I’m interested in.

Run an ad blocker, and use your email spam filters.  Between the two of these I've radically reduced my exposure to advertisements.  It's a better way to live.

I get an inordinate amount of Febreeze adds on Youtube. I've never bought Febreeze nor does my house smell. I watch a lot of cycling and hiking videos. They never try to sell me a new bike or backpacking gear.

[Villanelle]

I wasn't familiar with the term "Pig Butchering" in this context so I pulled up Wikipedia and this was in the first paragraph:

"In October 2023, 12% of Americans using dating apps had been victims, up from 5% in 2018."

That's a startlingly high number to me, one that presumably doesn't include a whole lot of 70 and 80 year olds since it's just dating apps.

When you've been taken in by a scam you feel like an idiot.  People tend to be quite hesitant to broadcast things that make them look and feel stupid.  You might not hear much about these scams, but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were actually higher than reported.

Just wait until AI takes over, and makes today's pig butchering and spearphishing attempts look like Nigerian prince mass-emails.

The AI will get to know you and your friends, measure your and their characteristics across hundreds of variables, merge data about you from hundreds of sources, create a psychological profile, and calculate the exact scam that you'll fall for with the same effectiveness as YouTube, Facebook, or TikTok can guess the next video their users will engage in. Instead of recycling a handful of scams we can name, the AI will come up with a custom approach to fit the vulnerabilities of your particular brain, and it might not look like anything you've seen or imagined before.

To say we won't all get scammed is like saying you've never been sucked into a loop of algorithmically-selected content. Imagine if it's not just your child's voice and video image on the phone asking for a money transfer, but they also know all your information, can respond with the same intonation and cadence as the real person, and know the answer to any question you might ask. The stuff destroying people today is primitive compared to what's coming.

If the internet was developed to facilitate porn, AI will be developed to facilitate scams. Think about that if you are worried about the machines eventually turning on us. They will be built to harm people in the first place.

This.

WHen I was a kid, our family had a code word.  It was to be used if, for some reason, a stranger had to pick us up from school or activities.  (The concept was pushed at a school assembly.)  Perhaps the concept needs to come back, only as security against scammers instead of kidnappers. If your loved one doesn't know that codeword, they don't get Mexican bail money. 

[rocketpj]

I once had a customer/client get scammed by someone pretending to be me.  When they called me asking for the 'next' invoice, I had no idea what they were talking about.  When they realized they had been scammed they asked me to reimburse them - also NO.  Just a couple hundred dollars, but they were really angry and vented it on me.

[Michael in ABQ]

But that said, I am so annoyed at how clunky “targeted “ ads are that come to my social medias and emails. They’re just so stupid. They think they’re showing me things I want but they are not. I would actually welcome super targeted ads serving up exactly what I’m interested in.

Run an ad blocker, and use your email spam filters.  Between the two of these I've radically reduced my exposure to advertisements.  It's a better way to live.

I get an inordinate amount of Febreeze adds on Youtube. I've never bought Febreeze nor does my house smell. I watch a lot of cycling and hiking videos. They never try to sell me a new bike or backpacking gear.

When platforms can't target you specifically, they will default to products like Febreeze (or laundry detergent) that have broad market appeal. Also, P&G and other larger consumer brands can afford to waste a lot of money on non-targetted ads for branding purposes.

Our business spends close to $100k/year on digital ads but they're highly targeted direct response ads (mostly Google shopping) that we expect to result in immediate measurable sales.

[Luke Warm]

But that said, I am so annoyed at how clunky “targeted “ ads are that come to my social medias and emails. They’re just so stupid. They think they’re showing me things I want but they are not. I would actually welcome super targeted ads serving up exactly what I’m interested in.

Run an ad blocker, and use your email spam filters.  Between the two of these I've radically reduced my exposure to advertisements.  It's a better way to live.

After posting this I got a bike add on Youtube. Let's see if a Bugatti add shows up.
I get an inordinate amount of Febreeze adds on Youtube. I've never bought Febreeze nor does my house smell. I watch a lot of cycling and hiking videos. They never try to sell me a new bike or backpacking gear.

When platforms can't target you specifically, they will default to products like Febreeze (or laundry detergent) that have broad market appeal. Also, P&G and other larger consumer brands can afford to waste a lot of money on non-targetted ads for branding purposes.

Our business spends close to $100k/year on digital ads but they're highly targeted direct response ads (mostly Google shopping) that we expect to result in immediate measurable sales.

[Luke Warm]

Another friend of mine got scammed this week. Not pig butchering but a call from the sheriff's department saying there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to report to jury duty. The whole time he's telling me the story I'm seeing one red flag after another. The got him for $5k.

[ATtiny85]

Another friend of mine got scammed this week. Not pig butchering but a call from the sheriff's department saying there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to report to jury duty. The whole time he's telling me the story I'm seeing one red flag after another. The got him for $5k.

I could be tricked by a few things, but the warrant scam isn’t one of them. Yikes. Of course, it’s mainly because I don’t answer my phone unless it’s our cat boarding place.

[cpa cat]

One common scam I encounter is where a business receives an official-looking letter that looks like they need to pay a fee of some sort. Usually, the letter is for something like a "Tax Clearance Certificate" or "Certificate of Good Standing." These are things that exist, but not something a business would normally need to request.

The letter makes it looks like you need to have this item. The trick of it is that they actually do give you the certificate, so I guess it's not technically illegal? I don't know. I see it most frequently in California, but it happens to businesses everywhere.

Another scam that I've encountered: Your office manager gets a phone call from your "printer company" and they tell you it's time for your printer ink delivery. A bit of fast talking later, you've paid $500 for some low quality printer ink to be shipped to you. It works because you probably do have a printer company who sends you ink if you rent your office equipment. If you call and ask for a refund, they'll tell you "Sally, the office manager approved this purchase. We told her we weren't your normal printer company. Our ink is high quality." But they will generally take back the product and refund you. Again - not illegal, because they did actually deliver the goods, and they avoid issues by accepting refunds. In large companies, this type of purchase falls through the cracks and goes unnoticed.

These aren't big number scams on an individual basis. They're designed in a way to stop the victim from thinking too much about it. The amounts are relatively low, the product seemingly legitimate. Most people will either not notice the scam, or if they do notice, they'll let it go because it's not worth pursuing.

[jeninco]

One common scam I encounter is where a business receives an official-looking letter that looks like they need to pay a fee of some sort. Usually, the letter is for something like a "Tax Clearance Certificate" or "Certificate of Good Standing." These are things that exist, but not something a business would normally need to request.

The letter makes it looks like you need to have this item. The trick of it is that they actually do give you the certificate, so I guess it's not technically illegal? I don't know. I see it most frequently in California, but it happens to businesses everywhere.

Another scam that I've encountered: Your office manager gets a phone call from your "printer company" and they tell you it's time for your printer ink delivery. A bit of fast talking later, you've paid $500 for some low quality printer ink to be shipped to you. It works because you probably do have a printer company who sends you ink if you rent your office equipment. If you call and ask for a refund, they'll tell you "Sally, the office manager approved this purchase. We told her we weren't your normal printer company. Our ink is high quality." But they will generally take back the product and refund you. Again - not illegal, because they did actually deliver the goods, and they avoid issues by accepting refunds. In large companies, this type of purchase falls through the cracks and goes unnoticed.

These aren't big number scams on an individual basis. They're designed in a way to stop the victim from thinking too much about it. The amounts are relatively low, the product seemingly legitimate. Most people will either not notice the scam, or if they do notice, they'll let it go because it's not worth pursuing.

I am an LLC, and every year a few weeks before the renewal is due on my periodic report with the state, I get a fancy official-looking notice in an big heavy envelope that looks like I have to pay them to do my periodic report filing. For $250. My dudes, it costs $17.50 to do it directly via the state website, and takes under 10 minutes. Every year I get irritated by how much those asshats trying to swindle small businesses suck.

[Smokystache]

I once thought I had a pretty good bullshit detector, but fell for a well designed fake e-commerce website.  ...

I consider myself to be pretty internet-savvy and have a good scam detector, but one of these website almost got me too. I wanted a niche product ... maybe it was something like a part to an expensive vacuum cleaner that had broken and I just wanted to replace the part or something. Well the part was marked up to about 75% of the total cost of a new vacuum on most of the usual sites, but this one place had it for a more reasonable price. Appeared to be based in USA, pictures of the products, product descriptions, etc. etc.

The only reason I didn't fall for it was because I googled their street address because I was curious where it was shipping from. Google maps showed the address to be a residential business (the website said we are a warehouse/factory etc.). Then I checked and none of the phone numbers were legit.  I don't' think it was a reseller, just a scam. But damn that website looked legit.

[GuitarStv]

I once thought I had a pretty good bullshit detector, but fell for a well designed fake e-commerce website.  ...

I consider myself to be pretty internet-savvy and have a good scam detector, but one of these website almost got me too. I wanted a niche product ... maybe it was something like a part to an expensive vacuum cleaner that had broken and I just wanted to replace the part or something. Well the part was marked up to about 75% of the total cost of a new vacuum on most of the usual sites, but this one place had it for a more reasonable price. Appeared to be based in USA, pictures of the products, product descriptions, etc. etc.

The only reason I didn't fall for it was because I googled their street address because I was curious where it was shipping from. Google maps showed the address to be a residential business (the website said we are a warehouse/factory etc.). Then I checked and none of the phone numbers were legit.  I don't' think it was a reseller, just a scam. But damn that website looked legit.

There are some REALLY good looking fake websites.  Since getting scammed last year, I've run across another couple of them.  It's quite worrying to me, as I tend to research purchases and scour the internet for good deals on stuff.  The sophistication of the scammers can be pretty darned high.

[ChpBstrd]

I once thought I had a pretty good bullshit detector, but fell for a well designed fake e-commerce website.  ...

I consider myself to be pretty internet-savvy and have a good scam detector, but one of these website almost got me too. I wanted a niche product ... maybe it was something like a part to an expensive vacuum cleaner that had broken and I just wanted to replace the part or something. Well the part was marked up to about 75% of the total cost of a new vacuum on most of the usual sites, but this one place had it for a more reasonable price. Appeared to be based in USA, pictures of the products, product descriptions, etc. etc.

The only reason I didn't fall for it was because I googled their street address because I was curious where it was shipping from. Google maps showed the address to be a residential business (the website said we are a warehouse/factory etc.). Then I checked and none of the phone numbers were legit.  I don't' think it was a reseller, just a scam. But damn that website looked legit.

There are some REALLY good looking fake websites.  Since getting scammed last year, I've run across another couple of them.  It's quite worrying to me, as I tend to research purchases and scour the internet for good deals on stuff.  The sophistication of the scammers can be pretty darned high.

This is what's pushing people to the Amazon monopoly.

[Zikoris]

I'm also not concerned about scams. The fact that I'm not lonely, greedy, or stupid eliminates 99% of them. Apparently the fact that I don't buy things online from random websites eliminates the remaining 1% (I don't even do that for scam-avoidance purposes, it would just never occur to me to do it in the first place).

[twinstudy]

I'm also not concerned about scams. The fact that I'm not lonely, greedy, or stupid eliminates 99% of them. Apparently the fact that I don't buy things online from random websites eliminates the remaining 1% (I don't even do that for scam-avoidance purposes, it would just never occur to me to do it in the first place).

Pretty much. How hard is it to not get scammed? I guess about as hard as not smoking or gambling.

Unfortunately here in Australia there is a push to have banks reimburse certain consumers who have been scammed -- which then pushes the cost of the stupidity back onto the rest of us. How about this - let people pay for their own mistakes. It's generally a good policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/feb/01/australian-banks-should-reimburse-scam-victims-accc-and-consumer-advocates-say

[Fomerly known as something]

I wasn't familiar with the term "Pig Butchering" in this context so I pulled up Wikipedia and this was in the first paragraph:

"In October 2023, 12% of Americans using dating apps had been victims, up from 5% in 2018."

That's a startlingly high number to me, one that presumably doesn't include a whole lot of 70 and 80 year olds since it's just dating apps.

Nope its all ages.  I get to listen to them when they call to report the lost money.

[Zikoris]

I'm also not concerned about scams. The fact that I'm not lonely, greedy, or stupid eliminates 99% of them. Apparently the fact that I don't buy things online from random websites eliminates the remaining 1% (I don't even do that for scam-avoidance purposes, it would just never occur to me to do it in the first place).

Pretty much. How hard is it to not get scammed? I guess about as hard as not smoking or gambling.

Unfortunately here in Australia there is a push to have banks reimburse certain consumers who have been scammed -- which then pushes the cost of the stupidity back onto the rest of us. How about this - let people pay for their own mistakes. It's generally a good policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/feb/01/australian-banks-should-reimburse-scam-victims-accc-and-consumer-advocates-say

I'd like to see telecoms make it so you can block any calls originating from overseas (or specific countries). That alone would eliminate basically all the phone scams.

[GuitarStv]

I'm also not concerned about scams. The fact that I'm not lonely, greedy, or stupid eliminates 99% of them. Apparently the fact that I don't buy things online from random websites eliminates the remaining 1% (I don't even do that for scam-avoidance purposes, it would just never occur to me to do it in the first place).

Pretty much. How hard is it to not get scammed? I guess about as hard as not smoking or gambling.

Unfortunately here in Australia there is a push to have banks reimburse certain consumers who have been scammed -- which then pushes the cost of the stupidity back onto the rest of us. How about this - let people pay for their own mistakes. It's generally a good policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/feb/01/australian-banks-should-reimburse-scam-victims-accc-and-consumer-advocates-say

I'd like to see telecoms make it so you can block any calls originating from overseas (or specific countries). That alone would eliminate basically all the phone scams.

It would also help if they prevented telemarketers from spoofing caller ID and phone numbers.