Author Topic: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It  (Read 90697 times)

Wexler

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #450 on: February 13, 2019, 12:13:20 PM »
Resurrecting a good thread for a guy who wants to know, geez, doesn't everyone yell at their wife to get going on a Monday morning?  Who can even figure out how to resolve problems without yelling?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/02/yelling-during-arguments-care-and-feeding.html

Dear Care and Feeding,

My wife and I fight a lot. We try to keep perspective. For instance, itís hard to imagine that any couple with two stressful full-time jobs, little kids, and limited resources wouldnít be fighting a bunch. At a minimum, on a Monday morning, fighting can sometimes seem necessary just to push away the exhaustion and start moving. Weíre not like the people on Facebook. We donít get vacations.

Years ago, I used to yell a lot during fights. Now, strangely, sheís sometimes louder and more aggressive than me. Due to our past, however, Iíll always be branded ďthe angry one,Ē a title never to be repealed. At my wifeís request Iíve worked on decreasing my yelling. I grew up in a family that fights and yells and argues and she comes from a family that never yelled. I canít imagine how they aired and resolved problems, so go figure. So in her world yelling in generalóbut especially in front of the kidsóis a cardinal sin. I donít claim that itís the pinnacle of good family health, but in general I consider us good parents and our lovely children well-behaved.
 I wanted to ask about this yelling thing. Surely every parenting expert (Iím skeptical that such a person exists) avers that yelling in the house, in front of the kids, between a loving couple, is absolutely not OK. And yet I remain not wholly convinced. Could there be a family who is perfect in resolving differences? If so, it must be because they amicably separated years ago. Yelling isnít pretty or healthy (whatever) but I consider it part of relationship life.

My wife can be very emotionally manipulative. Is that better than yelling? At least with yelling the other party knows the position. One may not be able to rationally sort out differences in the heat of the moment with an angry person but thereís a certain transparency to yelling. We know what theyíre thinking. Emotional manipulationówhich may include sarcasm, twists of tone, guilting, gaslighting, bringing spouseís other intimate personal matters into an argument, bringing spouseís work relationships into an argumentóseems to me far more destructive and poisonous than yelling, in particular because within their subtle art, a deft manipulator can eschew any responsibility whatsoever. Itís true, how does one know itís there? So it takes a lot of energy to attempt to gather evidence that emotional manipulation is even taking place and even if evidence is found, itís nearly impossible to get a deft manipulator to fess up and not twist the evidence until it doesnít exist.


MonkeyJenga

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #451 on: February 13, 2019, 01:24:03 PM »
Oh my god and the next paragraph after what you quoted:

Quote
The strangest part is that my wife sees yelling as a behavior of the traditional bullying conservative male, that he is aggressive and authoritative. She does not seem to see emotional manipulation as a behavior of the traditional bullying female. At a minimum, this question should show how deeply thoughtful a man I am

And he talks about her gaslighting him, geez.

ixtap

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #452 on: February 13, 2019, 01:27:08 PM »
Oh my god and the next paragraph after what you quoted:

Quote
The strangest part is that my wife sees yelling as a behavior of the traditional bullying conservative male, that he is aggressive and authoritative. She does not seem to see emotional manipulation as a behavior of the traditional bullying female. At a minimum, this question should show how deeply thoughtful a man I am

And he talks about her gaslighting him, geez.

Can't help but wondering if he is talking about her crying after he screamed at her.

Kris

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #453 on: February 13, 2019, 01:33:28 PM »
Oh my god and the next paragraph after what you quoted:

Quote
The strangest part is that my wife sees yelling as a behavior of the traditional bullying conservative male, that he is aggressive and authoritative. She does not seem to see emotional manipulation as a behavior of the traditional bullying female. At a minimum, this question should show how deeply thoughtful a man I am

And he talks about her gaslighting him, geez.

Can't help but wondering if he is talking about her crying after he screamed at her.

OMG. That brings back memories of my ex-husband. Yup, he would always accuse me of being manipulative for getting upset during an argument when he was being awful to me. Like I was just doing it to get the upper hand. Ugh.

remizidae

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #454 on: February 13, 2019, 01:44:35 PM »
I don't like Monday mornings either. I get going by drinking water, listening to music. Oh yeah, coffee. Not by...deliberately starting a fight.

Yeah, this marriage is doomed. When you start focusing on how to "gather evidence" against a spouse...

As with almost every internet article, I'd love to see their budget. How is it possible that two fully employed people can't afford ANY vacations? Not even a long weekend? They need a break.

ixtap

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #455 on: February 13, 2019, 01:53:10 PM »
I don't like Monday mornings either. I get going by drinking water, listening to music. Oh yeah, coffee. Not by...deliberately starting a fight.

Yeah, this marriage is doomed. When you start focusing on how to "gather evidence" against a spouse...

As with almost every internet article, I'd love to see their budget. How is it possible that two fully employed people can't afford ANY vacations? Not even a long weekend? They need a break.

I assume they take vacations, but they visit family and take road trips, they don't go to Europe or take week long cruises like those other people.

shelivesthedream

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #456 on: February 13, 2019, 02:28:12 PM »
How do people air grievances and resolve issues without yelling? Literally how? Please, someone clue me in here. The only options are either traditional male bullying or traditional  female bullying. Obviously male bullying is better. Everyone on the planet says yelling fucks kids up but it certainly didn't fuck ME up.

Mate, there is this magical thing that has all the benefits of yelling but without the actual yelling. It's called TALKING.

Cool Friend

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #457 on: February 13, 2019, 02:40:02 PM »
But what is yelling but merely talking at very loud and threatening volumes

grantmeaname

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #458 on: February 13, 2019, 02:40:14 PM »
Mate, there is this magical thing that has all the benefits of yelling but without the actual yelling. It's called TALKING.

You are blowing my mind right now. I'm going to take this home and try it on my marriage!

EvenSteven

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #459 on: February 13, 2019, 02:52:33 PM »
Mate, there is this magical thing that has all the benefits of yelling but without the actual yelling. It's called TALKING.

You are blowing my mind right now. I'm going to take this home and try it on my marriage!

Yeah! I'm going to go try it at my marriage!

PoutineLover

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #460 on: February 13, 2019, 02:56:15 PM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

carolina822

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #461 on: February 14, 2019, 07:03:46 AM »
I remember seeing my brother and SIL get into a yelling match when their daughter was about six months old. She didn't even understand English yet, but she was wailing and crying so much that it absolutely crushed me as a bystander. We were all at my parents and my mom did her best to try to calm things down. How people can regularly put their children through that is beyond me.

OtherJen

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #462 on: February 14, 2019, 07:21:22 AM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

Same. In fact, I donít plan to have children because I really donít have the temperament for it and am afraid that I would resort to what I learned by example (as my parent did). I still turn into a crying, shaky mess when a man loses it and starts screaming in my vicinity. I refuse to risk that with another generation.

Apples

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #463 on: February 14, 2019, 07:49:57 AM »
Obviously this guy doesn't realize how bad his situation is, if a yelling argument is how to get going on a Monday.  That sounds miserable.

So, genuine question - when (small) kids or life upsets put you at your wit's end, how do you react?  My mom always yelled.  It wasn't threatening (well, at 4 it was, but by 9 or so it wasn't).  It was the tone switch to "you kids are going to listen and do as I say now (usually getting ready, putting toys away, stop doing the dangerous thing now for goodness sake)".  When I'm super frustrated and overwhelmed at home, I'll raise my voice for about 5-10 seconds for a short sentence, that blows off the very built up frustration, and then I can talk.  I don't have kids yet.  My DH is always at least in the next room while I do it, and I don't say anything mean.  It happens probably 3x/month.  My "I'm fed up now" signal is yelling, briefly.  I'll be honest, it feels very good to me and is effective.  What do you all do at that point?

Barbaebigode

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #464 on: February 14, 2019, 09:04:09 AM »
Quote
itís hard to imagine that any couple with two stressful full-time jobs, little kids, and limited resources wouldnít be fighting a bunch.

That's sad.

Quote
I grew up in a family that fights and yells and argues and she comes from a family that never yelled. I canít imagine how they aired and resolved problems, so go figure.

I wonder, does he also smacks his kids because there's no other way of educating them or spends all his money because there's no other way of enjoying life?

OtherJen

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #465 on: February 14, 2019, 09:18:33 AM »
Obviously this guy doesn't realize how bad his situation is, if a yelling argument is how to get going on a Monday.  That sounds miserable.

So, genuine question - when (small) kids or life upsets put you at your wit's end, how do you react?  My mom always yelled.  It wasn't threatening (well, at 4 it was, but by 9 or so it wasn't).  It was the tone switch to "you kids are going to listen and do as I say now (usually getting ready, putting toys away, stop doing the dangerous thing now for goodness sake)".  When I'm super frustrated and overwhelmed at home, I'll raise my voice for about 5-10 seconds for a short sentence, that blows off the very built up frustration, and then I can talk.  I don't have kids yet.  My DH is always at least in the next room while I do it, and I don't say anything mean.  It happens probably 3x/month.  My "I'm fed up now" signal is yelling, briefly.  I'll be honest, it feels very good to me and is effective.  What do you all do at that point?

There's a big difference between a brief loud tone proportional to the situation and unhinged screaming. It sounds like you use the former. My mom did, too, and because she didn't use it often, I took it seriously. She was generally very warm and loving, so it was not threatening. My dad used the latter. I am 40 and to this day, a man who loses control and starts screaming irrationally still sends me into a panic attack. (Disclaimer: my dad has changed a LOT and I have a decent adult relationship with him now. I trust him not to lose control of himself now.)

partgypsy

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #466 on: February 14, 2019, 09:44:48 AM »
I used to never yell. If anything it would be my ex who would yell. But I have to admit by the end of my marriage I became a yeller. I would lose my sh*t over relatively minor stuff and start yelling. Not at people, but at the computer, or out loud where are the scissors!?!  I know why I did it. I felt overwhelmed, ignored, and unsupported.  So when I would run up to one of my minimum but important to me requests and rules of the house and it was ignored (Leave the pair of office scissors in the office. Leave the kitchen scissors in the kitchen. Don't change the passwords on the computer without writing them down/letting me know. Don't break/lose a piece of technology and leave for me to discover and have to deal with). Thankfully once my ex left a lot of the tension left (as well as less missing items). Yelling as a rule in a household is just not a healthy way to communicate. I have to admit the guy I'm seeing does say or do things that tick me off! But at some point I realized he never raises his voice! Not to me or other people. It is a refreshing change to see it is completely unnecessary. I do sometimes lose my temper and yell (i.e. missing tv remote), but is is much less frequent.         
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:18:58 AM by partgypsy »

meerkat

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #467 on: February 14, 2019, 10:15:11 AM »
Obviously this guy doesn't realize how bad his situation is, if a yelling argument is how to get going on a Monday.  That sounds miserable.

So, genuine question - when (small) kids or life upsets put you at your wit's end, how do you react?  My mom always yelled.  It wasn't threatening (well, at 4 it was, but by 9 or so it wasn't).  It was the tone switch to "you kids are going to listen and do as I say now (usually getting ready, putting toys away, stop doing the dangerous thing now for goodness sake)".  When I'm super frustrated and overwhelmed at home, I'll raise my voice for about 5-10 seconds for a short sentence, that blows off the very built up frustration, and then I can talk.  I don't have kids yet.  My DH is always at least in the next room while I do it, and I don't say anything mean.  It happens probably 3x/month.  My "I'm fed up now" signal is yelling, briefly.  I'll be honest, it feels very good to me and is effective.  What do you all do at that point?

I try to be mindful of my stress levels before I get to that point. When dealing with my small human sometimes I have to say "Mommy is feeling frustrated." Small human's age kind of determines how things go from there - at the tiny, immobile stage it's totally okay to put them in their crib, shut the door and walk away for a few minutes to get yourself together or tag in your spouse while you go for a walk. The baby monitor was great at this stage because I'd turn the volume down all the way but I could still see him moving around so I knew he was alive/safe but the screaming wasn't grating my nerve and I had a chance to recover.

Now we're in the toddler/preschooler stage. I like to read what my spouse jokingly calls self-help books but I feel like they are more like family help because it helps get ahead of things before they spiral out of control a lot of time so you're not setting up a pattern of emotional eruptions (like, say, starting off your Monday with a screaming match with your spouse). There's still times that everything seems to be going wrong but a lot of times offering kid choices helps, even if he doesn't like either choice. For example, at bedtime he likes to stall and I just want to GTFO because I'm tired so I ask him to choose a book to read. He dithers and plays with his stuffed animals, I choose two and ask if he wants option A or option B ... or else mama will pick. Usually when I say "or mama will pick" he suddenly snaps to and chooses because he likes having that control over his life. As much as possible we try to let him choose what he can - he can choose what shoes to wear but he has to wear shoes to school, things like that. I've heard a car analogy for this - the adults are driving but the kids get to control what's on the radio (except I don't actually let him choose what we listen to in the car in real life because he has terrible taste in music, but you get the idea).

Oh, and time outs are a thing (or time ins, depending on your kid's personality). I have put myself in time out before, my husband has more of a temper and puts himself in time out once a week at least but we talk about our feelings a lot more and he's improved because he is putting himself in time out before he gets to the point of yelling. It's great for small human too because he sees A) that we have feelings too, B) we sometimes have trouble dealing with our feelings just like he has trouble, and C) what it is we do to actually help ourselves with our feelings, which is usually the same things we ask him to do to calm himself down. We also have board books like "I'm Feeling Mad" featuring Daniel Tiger that talk about feelings in an age-appropriate way so he can recognize his own feelings so that he doesn't go off the rails causing us to feel like we're going off the rails too.

jeninco

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #468 on: February 14, 2019, 10:40:15 AM »
Obviously this guy doesn't realize how bad his situation is, if a yelling argument is how to get going on a Monday.  That sounds miserable.

So, genuine question - when (small) kids or life upsets put you at your wit's end, how do you react?  My mom always yelled.  It wasn't threatening (well, at 4 it was, but by 9 or so it wasn't).  It was the tone switch to "you kids are going to listen and do as I say now (usually getting ready, putting toys away, stop doing the dangerous thing now for goodness sake)".  When I'm super frustrated and overwhelmed at home, I'll raise my voice for about 5-10 seconds for a short sentence, that blows off the very built up frustration, and then I can talk.  I don't have kids yet.  My DH is always at least in the next room while I do it, and I don't say anything mean.  It happens probably 3x/month.  My "I'm fed up now" signal is yelling, briefly.  I'll be honest, it feels very good to me and is effective.  What do you all do at that point?

There's a big difference between a brief loud tone proportional to the situation and unhinged screaming. It sounds like you use the former. My mom did, too, and because she didn't use it often, I took it seriously. She was generally very warm and loving, so it was not threatening. My dad used the latter. I am 40 and to this day, a man who loses control and starts screaming irrationally still sends me into a panic attack. (Disclaimer: my dad has changed a LOT and I have a decent adult relationship with him now. I trust him not to lose control of himself now.)

Jen, I'm so sorry!  It sucks to be a kid with parents who can't manage to, you know, actually parent. (I had one too, but he relied/still relies on gaslighting and lying while building himself up, rather than unhinged screaming. Mostly.) I still get furious when someone lies to me in ways that contradict my own experiences, but I'm handling it better these days. Also, it's absurd: no one should be doing that to another human being, so being able to label it out loud helps.

To your earlier point, when my husband and I had been dating for a while, my dad instigated <another horrible thing around my grandparents' wills just after their deaths>, and I convinced my workplace insurance that they should pay for my therapy for a while (by describing what was happening in fairly dispassionate terms, which horrified the person doing the screening). At one point, my then-partner came with me, and after that it became for both of us, mostly learning how to have a relationship that in no way resembled either of the ones our parents had modeled. I wasn't sure about having kids either, but after some years we decided to give it a shot.

We read a LOT of books. We're both mathematicians, so we tend toward books that have some legitimate experimental or developmental support (rather than Dr. So-and-so's opinion about what children "need"). We really liked the "How to Talk So kids Will Listen..." series. We check in with each other frequently about kid-related stuff. We talk with our kid's teachers/counselors/friend's parents. (Although we don't necessarily agree with everything anyone else says, it's helpful to gather information.) We have a couple of aunts who have good advice. We really engaged with our neighbors, trying to help make our community a place we'd want to raise kids. We kept an eye on other people's children, and they kept eyes on ours. Our kids are now 14 and 17, and I'm fairly comfortable that we've done a reasonably good job with the people that they are. (so far, knock on wood.) We try to keep the long view in mine, i.e. "what kind of person do we want to encourage this kid to be as an adult?"

When push really comes to shove, sometimes we think "what would our parents do in this situation" and then do the opposite. Although at this point we mostly have our own ideas about what is effective or good parenting.

So, feel free to decide what you want -- yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCUGMMEF2Zk! you can be a parent (or not) and whatever kind of grownup you choose.

Apples

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #469 on: February 14, 2019, 12:06:14 PM »
I used to never yell. If anything it would be my ex who would yell. But I have to admit by the end of my marriage I became a yeller. I would lose my sh*t over relatively minor stuff and start yelling. Not at people, but at the computer, or out loud where are the scissors!?!  I know why I did it. I felt overwhelmed, ignored, and unsupported.  So when I would run up to one of my minimum but important to me requests and rules of the house and it was ignored (Leave the pair of office scissors in the office. Leave the kitchen scissors in the kitchen. Don't change the passwords on the computer without writing them down/letting me know. Don't break/lose a piece of technology and leave for me to discover and have to deal with). Thankfully once my ex left a lot of the tension left (as well as less missing items). Yelling as a rule in a household is just not a healthy way to communicate. I have to admit the guy I'm seeing does say or do things that tick me off! But at some point I realized he never raises his voice! Not to me or other people. It is a refreshing change to see it is completely unnecessary. I do sometimes lose my temper and yell (i.e. missing tv remote), but is is much less frequent.       

Ha, the last 3 weeks or so of harvest (a very intense, stressful, and tiring time) I'll drop something on the floor and just yell.  No words, just a loud sound for about 3 seconds.  Then pick it up and go on my way.  So I completely understand your general feeling, without being in that same situation.

Kris

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #470 on: February 14, 2019, 12:12:27 PM »
I used to never yell. If anything it would be my ex who would yell. But I have to admit by the end of my marriage I became a yeller. I would lose my sh*t over relatively minor stuff and start yelling. Not at people, but at the computer, or out loud where are the scissors!?!  I know why I did it. I felt overwhelmed, ignored, and unsupported.  So when I would run up to one of my minimum but important to me requests and rules of the house and it was ignored (Leave the pair of office scissors in the office. Leave the kitchen scissors in the kitchen. Don't change the passwords on the computer without writing them down/letting me know. Don't break/lose a piece of technology and leave for me to discover and have to deal with). Thankfully once my ex left a lot of the tension left (as well as less missing items). Yelling as a rule in a household is just not a healthy way to communicate. I have to admit the guy I'm seeing does say or do things that tick me off! But at some point I realized he never raises his voice! Not to me or other people. It is a refreshing change to see it is completely unnecessary. I do sometimes lose my temper and yell (i.e. missing tv remote), but is is much less frequent.       

Ha, the last 3 weeks or so of harvest (a very intense, stressful, and tiring time) I'll drop something on the floor and just yell.  No words, just a loud sound for about 3 seconds.  Then pick it up and go on my way.  So I completely understand your general feeling, without being in that same situation.

I think the "not yelling at people" part is very important. I also yell sometimes when I'm really frustrated -- yeah, it feels good, as does swearing. It's a way to let off steam, and the science actually shows that it does help relieve stress. So, it can be a good thing for the yeller/swearer, as long as it's not directed at someone.

When you're yelling at someone, you're relieving your own stress, but increasing the stress of the other person. That's uncool. That's the distinction I make.

OtherJen

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #471 on: February 14, 2019, 01:05:01 PM »
Obviously this guy doesn't realize how bad his situation is, if a yelling argument is how to get going on a Monday.  That sounds miserable.

So, genuine question - when (small) kids or life upsets put you at your wit's end, how do you react?  My mom always yelled.  It wasn't threatening (well, at 4 it was, but by 9 or so it wasn't).  It was the tone switch to "you kids are going to listen and do as I say now (usually getting ready, putting toys away, stop doing the dangerous thing now for goodness sake)".  When I'm super frustrated and overwhelmed at home, I'll raise my voice for about 5-10 seconds for a short sentence, that blows off the very built up frustration, and then I can talk.  I don't have kids yet.  My DH is always at least in the next room while I do it, and I don't say anything mean.  It happens probably 3x/month.  My "I'm fed up now" signal is yelling, briefly.  I'll be honest, it feels very good to me and is effective.  What do you all do at that point?

There's a big difference between a brief loud tone proportional to the situation and unhinged screaming. It sounds like you use the former. My mom did, too, and because she didn't use it often, I took it seriously. She was generally very warm and loving, so it was not threatening. My dad used the latter. I am 40 and to this day, a man who loses control and starts screaming irrationally still sends me into a panic attack. (Disclaimer: my dad has changed a LOT and I have a decent adult relationship with him now. I trust him not to lose control of himself now.)

Jen, I'm so sorry!  It sucks to be a kid with parents who can't manage to, you know, actually parent. (I had one too, but he relied/still relies on gaslighting and lying while building himself up, rather than unhinged screaming. Mostly.) I still get furious when someone lies to me in ways that contradict my own experiences, but I'm handling it better these days. Also, it's absurd: no one should be doing that to another human being, so being able to label it out loud helps.

To your earlier point, when my husband and I had been dating for a while, my dad instigated <another horrible thing around my grandparents' wills just after their deaths>, and I convinced my workplace insurance that they should pay for my therapy for a while (by describing what was happening in fairly dispassionate terms, which horrified the person doing the screening). At one point, my then-partner came with me, and after that it became for both of us, mostly learning how to have a relationship that in no way resembled either of the ones our parents had modeled. I wasn't sure about having kids either, but after some years we decided to give it a shot.

We read a LOT of books. We're both mathematicians, so we tend toward books that have some legitimate experimental or developmental support (rather than Dr. So-and-so's opinion about what children "need"). We really liked the "How to Talk So kids Will Listen..." series. We check in with each other frequently about kid-related stuff. We talk with our kid's teachers/counselors/friend's parents. (Although we don't necessarily agree with everything anyone else says, it's helpful to gather information.) We have a couple of aunts who have good advice. We really engaged with our neighbors, trying to help make our community a place we'd want to raise kids. We kept an eye on other people's children, and they kept eyes on ours. Our kids are now 14 and 17, and I'm fairly comfortable that we've done a reasonably good job with the people that they are. (so far, knock on wood.) We try to keep the long view in mine, i.e. "what kind of person do we want to encourage this kid to be as an adult?"

When push really comes to shove, sometimes we think "what would our parents do in this situation" and then do the opposite. Although at this point we mostly have our own ideas about what is effective or good parenting.

So, feel free to decide what you want -- yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCUGMMEF2Zk! you can be a parent (or not) and whatever kind of grownup you choose.

I'm 40 and have no desire to be a parent. A large part is temperament and issues from my own childhood, but I also don't have a maternal instinct. I love my young niece and nephew to bits, but it's a huge relief to hand them back to the people who are legally responsible for them and go back to my quiet house. Fortunately for me, husband became less and less interested in having kids as our friends started having them.

shelivesthedream

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #472 on: February 14, 2019, 02:33:03 PM »
As others have said, there's a huge difference between a five second yell of anguish to the world at large and an ongoing argument of yelling at someone.

In our house we make liberal use of "I can't talk to you right now" and take ourselves off to calm down. Contentious issues are often addressed in writing so we can carefully craft what we actually mean to say and not get carried away into saying something we'll regret. We don't fight much, but neither of us was brought up on yelling.

mm1970

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #473 on: February 14, 2019, 03:09:30 PM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

Same. In fact, I don’t plan to have children because I really don’t have the temperament for it and am afraid that I would resort to what I learned by example (as my parent did). I still turn into a crying, shaky mess when a man loses it and starts screaming in my vicinity. I refuse to risk that with another generation.
Boy I feel you.  In my marriage, I'm the impatient, cranky, emotional, sometimes irrational one.  Plus: I get hangry.

But interestingly...here we are, >20 years in, with two kids.  (I didn't want kids, didn't have the temperament for it.  I understand you there.  I am positive I would be 100% happy if I had not had them.  But of course, I'd never trade them for anything now because they are my world.)

I still get hangry and pissy, mostly at work.  But at home?  I am totally 100% mostly the calm, rational, patient one.  My husband gets frustrated and yells, and I've had to tell him to STFU, go for a walk, chill out, take a nap.  I dunno how it happened, but having kids made me more patient.  I guess it was either learn to be patient or start drinking heavily. (I still have occasional moments when I snap and yell.)

(Husband is under a lot of stress right now.  So am I, but I have been religious in the last 2 years about exercise, sleep, and meditation.)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:13:06 PM by mm1970 »

OtherJen

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #474 on: February 14, 2019, 04:03:30 PM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

Same. In fact, I donít plan to have children because I really donít have the temperament for it and am afraid that I would resort to what I learned by example (as my parent did). I still turn into a crying, shaky mess when a man loses it and starts screaming in my vicinity. I refuse to risk that with another generation.
Boy I feel you.  In my marriage, I'm the impatient, cranky, emotional, sometimes irrational one.  Plus: I get hangry.

But interestingly...here we are, >20 years in, with two kids.  (I didn't want kids, didn't have the temperament for it.  I understand you there.  I am positive I would be 100% happy if I had not had them.  But of course, I'd never trade them for anything now because they are my world.)

I still get hangry and pissy, mostly at work.  But at home?  I am totally 100% mostly the calm, rational, patient one.  My husband gets frustrated and yells, and I've had to tell him to STFU, go for a walk, chill out, take a nap.  I dunno how it happened, but having kids made me more patient.  I guess it was either learn to be patient or start drinking heavily. (I still have occasional moments when I snap and yell.)

(Husband is under a lot of stress right now.  So am I, but I have been religious in the last 2 years about exercise, sleep, and meditation.)

I'm glad it worked out!

I'm 40 and am still waiting for the maternal urge to kick in (very, very unlikely at this point). I'd rather regret not having them because it isn't like I could give them back if I regretted having them.

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #475 on: February 14, 2019, 04:45:39 PM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

Same. In fact, I donít plan to have children because I really donít have the temperament for it and am afraid that I would resort to what I learned by example (as my parent did). I still turn into a crying, shaky mess when a man loses it and starts screaming in my vicinity. I refuse to risk that with another generation.
Boy I feel you.  In my marriage, I'm the impatient, cranky, emotional, sometimes irrational one.  Plus: I get hangry.

But interestingly...here we are, >20 years in, with two kids.  (I didn't want kids, didn't have the temperament for it.  I understand you there.  I am positive I would be 100% happy if I had not had them.  But of course, I'd never trade them for anything now because they are my world.)

I still get hangry and pissy, mostly at work.  But at home?  I am totally 100% mostly the calm, rational, patient one.  My husband gets frustrated and yells, and I've had to tell him to STFU, go for a walk, chill out, take a nap.  I dunno how it happened, but having kids made me more patient.  I guess it was either learn to be patient or start drinking heavily. (I still have occasional moments when I snap and yell.)

(Husband is under a lot of stress right now.  So am I, but I have been religious in the last 2 years about exercise, sleep, and meditation.)

I'm glad it worked out!

I'm 40 and am still waiting for the maternal urge to kick in (very, very unlikely at this point). I'd rather regret not having them because it isn't like I could give them back if I regretted having them.

It's pretty awesome that you get to be the cool auntie. Everyone needs a couple of those, too!
(I also have to say -- teenagers are much cooler then small children IMHO. I voluntarily go spend time with ones I'm not related to as a fun break in my day.)

talltexan

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #476 on: February 15, 2019, 07:48:31 AM »
Can I give a plug for Carvell's podcast "Mom and Dad are fighting".

I started listening to i late last year, and it's really helped me make peace with my failures as a parent.

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #477 on: February 15, 2019, 09:06:19 AM »
I used to never yell. If anything it would be my ex who would yell. But I have to admit by the end of my marriage I became a yeller. I would lose my sh*t over relatively minor stuff and start yelling. Not at people, but at the computer, or out loud where are the scissors!?!  I know why I did it. I felt overwhelmed, ignored, and unsupported.  So when I would run up to one of my minimum but important to me requests and rules of the house and it was ignored (Leave the pair of office scissors in the office. Leave the kitchen scissors in the kitchen. Don't change the passwords on the computer without writing them down/letting me know. Don't break/lose a piece of technology and leave for me to discover and have to deal with). Thankfully once my ex left a lot of the tension left (as well as less missing items). Yelling as a rule in a household is just not a healthy way to communicate. I have to admit the guy I'm seeing does say or do things that tick me off! But at some point I realized he never raises his voice! Not to me or other people. It is a refreshing change to see it is completely unnecessary. I do sometimes lose my temper and yell (i.e. missing tv remote), but is is much less frequent.       

Ha, the last 3 weeks or so of harvest (a very intense, stressful, and tiring time) I'll drop something on the floor and just yell.  No words, just a loud sound for about 3 seconds.  Then pick it up and go on my way.  So I completely understand your general feeling, without being in that same situation.

I think the "not yelling at people" part is very important. I also yell sometimes when I'm really frustrated -- yeah, it feels good, as does swearing. It's a way to let off steam, and the science actually shows that it does help relieve stress. So, it can be a good thing for the yeller/swearer, as long as it's not directed at someone.

When you're yelling at someone, you're relieving your own stress, but increasing the stress of the other person. That's uncool. That's the distinction I make.

Agreed. I am an infrequent yeller, but when no one's around, and something's bugging the hell out of me, it can be very cathartic to scream into the abyss. In nine years of marriage, my wife and I can probably count on two hands the number of times we've legitimately yelled at one another. It's far more frequent that we briefly raise our voices, as OtherJen said "proportional to the situation", but even that has become far less frequent with time. We really noticed it when our kids got old enough to call us out on it, too. I think it's probably a healthy sign that they feel that they can safely interject to tell us that we're "not being nice to each other" (Our oldest is 7).

Bottom line: I don't think anyone expects you to never raise your voice as a parent or spouse, but in a healthy relationship, it should be infrequent, and if it escalates to yelling, then that is a legitimate problem that needs to be corrected.

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #478 on: February 15, 2019, 11:20:04 AM »
We also apologise frequently and proactively. We snap more than yell, but acknowledge that it was wrong and we will try harder next time. OP guy just piled on with defending it, which was the most shocking thing to me.


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mm1970

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Re: OP Is the Only One Who Doesn't See It
« Reply #481 on: February 22, 2019, 05:28:44 PM »
I feel really bad for his wife. Yes, yes there are couples who resolve differences without fighting and yelling. Having grown up in a house with lots of yelling from one parent, I would never ever do that to a child of mine.

Same. In fact, I donít plan to have children because I really donít have the temperament for it and am afraid that I would resort to what I learned by example (as my parent did). I still turn into a crying, shaky mess when a man loses it and starts screaming in my vicinity. I refuse to risk that with another generation.
Boy I feel you.  In my marriage, I'm the impatient, cranky, emotional, sometimes irrational one.  Plus: I get hangry.

But interestingly...here we are, >20 years in, with two kids.  (I didn't want kids, didn't have the temperament for it.  I understand you there.  I am positive I would be 100% happy if I had not had them.  But of course, I'd never trade them for anything now because they are my world.)

I still get hangry and pissy, mostly at work.  But at home?  I am totally 100% mostly the calm, rational, patient one.  My husband gets frustrated and yells, and I've had to tell him to STFU, go for a walk, chill out, take a nap.  I dunno how it happened, but having kids made me more patient.  I guess it was either learn to be patient or start drinking heavily. (I still have occasional moments when I snap and yell.)

(Husband is under a lot of stress right now.  So am I, but I have been religious in the last 2 years about exercise, sleep, and meditation.)

I'm glad it worked out!

I'm 40 and am still waiting for the maternal urge to kick in (very, very unlikely at this point). I'd rather regret not having them because it isn't like I could give them back if I regretted having them.

It's pretty awesome that you get to be the cool auntie. Everyone needs a couple of those, too!
(I also have to say -- teenagers are much cooler then small children IMHO. I voluntarily go spend time with ones I'm not related to as a fun break in my day.)

Hear hear!  I am the 8th of 9 children.  Of the 9 of us, two of my sisters did not have children.  They are very much the cool aunties.

I've also got many cool auntie friends.  Some who never wanted children, some who just "aged out" (40+, never met the right person, no strong urge to go it alone).  They are AWESOME.