Author Topic: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?  (Read 28005 times)

Metalcat

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #300 on: April 22, 2025, 10:46:14 AM »
Disabled people are a wildly under-valued resource, and it's estimated that in Canada if we made the country more accessible that disabled people being able to better enter the workforce would increase GDP by close to 20%. And that's not assuming that anyone's disability improves with accommodation.

https://www.iwh.on.ca/plain-language-summaries/economic-benefits-of-fully-accessible-and-inclusive-canada

Cutting supports for people with disabilities and further removing them from the social fabric is not efficient and doesn't help the economy. It makes us less able to contribute, and more of an expense to the system.

It's fucking stupid and morally disgusting.
How is disability defined here? Because I doubt Canada has 5 times the amount of disabled people in working age than everywhere else on the world.

27% of the population over 15 is recognized as disabled

This is an interesting statscan graphic about that:




Apparently we've had about 5% more of the population turn disabled in the past five years.  I wonder how much of that is due to the rapidly aging population (given that nearly half of those over 65 are disabled).

Also, what's up with women 15-24 that's disabling a quarter of them or more?  That seems crazy high for people who should be in the prime of their lives.  Is this largely mental health, or is something else going on?

Welcome to my world man, I've been working with people with disabilities since I was a teen in various different contexts. You would be shocked how many people, women especially, live with invisible disabilities. I guarantee you know plenty of "healthy" women who actually suffer from severe chronic pain or other disabilities.

Until I lost my ability to walk, no one would have ever guessed I was disabled. I never assume anyone I meet is able-bodied. The number of totally "healthy" looking people I've met who secretly have severe spinal damage, debilitating migraines, complex trauma affecting their functioning, endometriosis eroding chunks of their bowels, etc, etc, etc

I work with people who are neurodiverse AND have extreme childhood trauma (usually brutal sexual assault) AND severe physical health problems, and most of them look fine and the ones who can are still working and struggling every day to get reasonable accommodations for the severed tendons in their hands, or their brain damage from TBI.

It's astounding the condition that many people are walking around and existing in, and you would never even know unless they told you. It's mostly us gimpy cripples that anyone notices are fucked up, and even then, because I look so young and "healthy," most people assume I've had some kind of ski accident and that I'll heal up just fine.

No one has ever looked at me and my degrees and thought "I doubt many of that lady's organs work properly, and she probably can't read very well either."

wenchsenior

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #301 on: April 22, 2025, 11:36:04 AM »
Disabled people are a wildly under-valued resource, and it's estimated that in Canada if we made the country more accessible that disabled people being able to better enter the workforce would increase GDP by close to 20%. And that's not assuming that anyone's disability improves with accommodation.

https://www.iwh.on.ca/plain-language-summaries/economic-benefits-of-fully-accessible-and-inclusive-canada

Cutting supports for people with disabilities and further removing them from the social fabric is not efficient and doesn't help the economy. It makes us less able to contribute, and more of an expense to the system.

It's fucking stupid and morally disgusting.
How is disability defined here? Because I doubt Canada has 5 times the amount of disabled people in working age than everywhere else on the world.

27% of the population over 15 is recognized as disabled

This is an interesting statscan graphic about that:




Apparently we've had about 5% more of the population turn disabled in the past five years.  I wonder how much of that is due to the rapidly aging population (given that nearly half of those over 65 are disabled).

Also, what's up with women 15-24 that's disabling a quarter of them or more?  That seems crazy high for people who should be in the prime of their lives.  Is this largely mental health, or is something else going on?

My guess is it's a combo of mental health + all the various health disorders that are associated with reproductive hormones (which seriously can fuck up women's quality of life):  PCOS/endometriosis/debilitating migraines/ovarian cysts ... all extremely common... along with autoimmune conditions that are often worsened by reproductive hormones or hormonal fluctuations.

I had 3 somewhat disabling conditions of these by the time I was 19, and developed about 5 more in my early 40s (all hormone/endocrine/autoimmune) despite most not running in my family.


RetiredAt63

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #302 on: April 22, 2025, 01:34:13 PM »
Disabled people are a wildly under-valued resource, and it's estimated that in Canada if we made the country more accessible that disabled people being able to better enter the workforce would increase GDP by close to 20%. And that's not assuming that anyone's disability improves with accommodation.

https://www.iwh.on.ca/plain-language-summaries/economic-benefits-of-fully-accessible-and-inclusive-canada

Cutting supports for people with disabilities and further removing them from the social fabric is not efficient and doesn't help the economy. It makes us less able to contribute, and more of an expense to the system.

It's fucking stupid and morally disgusting.
How is disability defined here? Because I doubt Canada has 5 times the amount of disabled people in working age than everywhere else on the world.

27% of the population over 15 is recognized as disabled

This is an interesting statscan graphic about that:




Apparently we've had about 5% more of the population turn disabled in the past five years.  I wonder how much of that is due to the rapidly aging population (given that nearly half of those over 65 are disabled).

Also, what's up with women 15-24 that's disabling a quarter of them or more?  That seems crazy high for people who should be in the prime of their lives.  Is this largely mental health, or is something else going on?

My guess is it's a combo of mental health + all the various health disorders that are associated with reproductive hormones (which seriously can fuck up women's quality of life):  PCOS/endometriosis/debilitating migraines/ovarian cysts ... all extremely common... along with autoimmune conditions that are often worsened by reproductive hormones or hormonal fluctuations.

I had 3 somewhat disabling conditions of these by the time I was 19, and developed about 5 more in my early 40s (all hormone/endocrine/autoimmune) despite most not running in my family.

Plus ADHD and autism were seen as boys' diseases so girls struggled with expections and no help.

SotI

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #303 on: April 22, 2025, 01:58:22 PM »
Quote from: guitarstv

My guess is it's a combo of mental health + all the various health disorders that are associated with reproductive hormones (which seriously can fuck up women's quality of life):  PCOS/endometriosis/debilitating migraines/ovarian cysts ... all extremely common... along with autoimmune conditions that are often worsened by reproductive hormones or hormonal fluctuations.

Interesting,  I never realised that I might be considered disabled (minus the mental health issues or migraines). I always put it down to inheriting a female sh*t sandwich ...

sixwings

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #304 on: April 22, 2025, 02:07:08 PM »
Exec producer of 60 minutes resigned because he no longer had journalist independence because CBS wanted to merge with Skydance...

So.... that's really, really, really bad.

Morning Glory

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #305 on: April 22, 2025, 02:16:39 PM »
Exec producer of 60 minutes resigned because he no longer had journalist independence because CBS wanted to merge with Skydance...

So.... that's really, really, really bad.

Yeah. Pretty soon we'll stop hearing about all this bad stuff happening.  That's when it's probably too late.

wenchsenior

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #306 on: April 22, 2025, 02:31:02 PM »
Quote from: guitarstv

My guess is it's a combo of mental health + all the various health disorders that are associated with reproductive hormones (which seriously can fuck up women's quality of life):  PCOS/endometriosis/debilitating migraines/ovarian cysts ... all extremely common... along with autoimmune conditions that are often worsened by reproductive hormones or hormonal fluctuations.

Interesting,  I never realised that I might be considered disabled (minus the mental health issues or migraines). I always put it down to inheriting a female sh*t sandwich ...

Yeah, it's very ironic that (apart from my balding if you were close and I wasn't wearing headgear), I look the absolute picture of health... far healthier than many people a third or half my age. No one who didn't know me incredibly well would know. It's all an illusion since almost no system in my body apart from cardiovascular works properly.

sixwings

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #307 on: April 22, 2025, 02:46:05 PM »
Exec producer of 60 minutes resigned because he no longer had journalist independence because CBS wanted to merge with Skydance...

So.... that's really, really, really bad.

Yeah. Pretty soon we'll stop hearing about all this bad stuff happening.  That's when it's probably too late.

The weaponizing of the FCC and SEC against the media is far worse than anything I could have imagined tbh, epecially since they seem to be caveing for their broader business interests. I don't think the media companies can withstand 4 years of attacks like that considering CBS folded their flagship journalism on something that is so obviously illegal almost immediately.

LennStar

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #308 on: April 23, 2025, 01:09:13 AM »
But only 1/3 of Germans voted for Hitler! How could the other 2/3 have accepted what was going on?

Metalcat

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #309 on: April 23, 2025, 01:45:08 AM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is time to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people
« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 04:58:48 AM by Metalcat »

LennStar

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #310 on: April 23, 2025, 02:35:01 AM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is fine to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people

The term you are searching for is "Life unworthy of life".

I so hate being correct with my Trump predictions!

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this is what this person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community during his lifetime

Comrade from among the people [Fellow citizen], that is your money, too

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Metalcat

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #311 on: April 23, 2025, 05:11:49 AM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is fine to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people

The term you are searching for is "Life unworthy of life".

I so hate being correct with my Trump predictions!

(Pic https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:EuthanasiePropaganda.jpg )

Quote
60000 RM

this is what this person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community during his lifetime

Comrade from among the people [Fellow citizen], that is your money, too

Read Neues Volk ([A] New People)
The monthly magazines of the Office for Race Politics of the NSDAP

The man with the brain worm damage thinks the autistic silicon valley software engineers are defective.

Kris

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #312 on: April 23, 2025, 05:29:20 AM »
A friend of mine, trans woman, just fled to Canada with her child. Her wife will follow just as soon as their house is sold.

Tasse

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #313 on: April 23, 2025, 06:46:54 AM »
Suddenly pleased I've never been diagnosed with anything, plus never sent a swab to 23 and Me.

No kids yet, but looking at my husband and I, I feel like it's pretty unlikely we make a neurotypical child. Which isn't a problem in and of itself...

GuitarStv

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #314 on: April 23, 2025, 07:52:28 AM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is time to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people

The important thing is . . . there's no gun registry.  So, y'know, if the government goes off the rails and stops following the constitution (like deporting people without a trial, harassing/imprisoning citizens for speaking their native language, having the president unilaterally and without congressional approval implement tariffs) citizens will be able to rise up.

:S

swashbucklinstache

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #315 on: April 23, 2025, 09:10:20 AM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is time to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people

The important thing is . . . there's no gun registry.  So, y'know, if the government goes off the rails and stops following the constitution (like deporting people without a trial, harassing/imprisoning citizens for speaking their native language, having the president unilaterally and without congressional approval implement tariffs) citizens will be able to rise up.

:S
Not to throw cold water on this, but there's a chance this is being warped through communication. This is a little different from trump 1.0's Muslim registry talk. That's because all of this data is already in the federal government. Some of these sources are occasionally combined to enhance the data available for epidemiological insight. The main known differences, as far as I can tell, is they're moving unsafely and insecurely(un-?) fast in combining them. It's also true that anytime you enrich data you raise the risk of bad actors abusing it more effectively, so I won't attempt to dissuade people from acting accordingly.

Reasons not to panic
  • This stuff happens. For example, "combining" datasets was incredibly helpful during Covid for making real-time decisions and for seemingly simple things on the surface like asking who on Medicaid was pregnant what were their birth outcomes? Enriching data has been a big focus of federal researchers in the last five years particularly things like vital records (apple watch etc.).
  • They probably could have had DOGE do this under cover of the night but they didn't.
  • Big tech already has all this information or functional equivalents and more. Realistically we couldn't stop them from using it nor them giving it to the federal government, including being forced to.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-autism-study-medical-records/

It appears Mr worm has walked the cure by September talk all the way back to they'll start research by September.

Freedomin5

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #316 on: April 23, 2025, 04:12:32 PM »
Jesus...fucking...Christ...

I've said it already folks, but if your loved ones are neurospicy, it is time to start looking at getting the fuck out. A registry...a fucking registry based on private medical records for tracking people with genetic features that are a threat to the American way of life.

I mean...I'm not kidding, if your kid has autism, GO. NOW.

https://newrepublic.com/post/194245/rfk-jr-disease-registry-track-autistic-people

The important thing is . . . there's no gun registry.  So, y'know, if the government goes off the rails and stops following the constitution (like deporting people without a trial, harassing/imprisoning citizens for speaking their native language, having the president unilaterally and without congressional approval implement tariffs) citizens will be able to rise up.

:S
Not to throw cold water on this, but there's a chance this is being warped through communication. This is a little different from trump 1.0's Muslim registry talk. That's because all of this data is already in the federal government. Some of these sources are occasionally combined to enhance the data available for epidemiological insight. The main known differences, as far as I can tell, is they're moving unsafely and insecurely(un-?) fast in combining them. It's also true that anytime you enrich data you raise the risk of bad actors abusing it more effectively, so I won't attempt to dissuade people from acting accordingly.

Reasons not to panic
  • This stuff happens. For example, "combining" datasets was incredibly helpful during Covid for making real-time decisions and for seemingly simple things on the surface like asking who on Medicaid was pregnant what were their birth outcomes? Enriching data has been a big focus of federal researchers in the last five years particularly things like vital records (apple watch etc.).
  • They probably could have had DOGE do this under cover of the night but they didn't.
  • Big tech already has all this information or functional equivalents and more. Realistically we couldn't stop them from using it nor them giving it to the federal government, including being forced to.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-autism-study-medical-records/

It appears Mr worm has walked the cure by September talk all the way back to they'll start research by September.

Data is just data. It’s neither good nor bad.

Data in the wrong hands can lead to very bad outcomes. My first thought was that the US is moving towards eugenics. It’s a slippery slope. Scary stuff.

ETA: Fixed typos.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2025, 04:34:56 PM by Freedomin5 »

rocketpj

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #317 on: April 23, 2025, 04:23:03 PM »

Data is just data. It’s neither good nor bad.

Data in the wrong hands can be lead to very bad outcomes. My first thought was that the US is loving towards eugenics. It’s a slippery slope. Scary stuff.

Indeed.  One reason the Nazis were so effective at murdering Jews in Holland was because that was one of the datapoints on the Dutch census.  In itself a fairly innocuous question and in good hands it is worth asking.  In the wrong hands it led to monstrosity.

I'm not thinking the people in charge right now qualify as 'good hands'.

Fru-Gal

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #318 on: April 23, 2025, 04:33:12 PM »
Suddenly pleased I've never been diagnosed with anything, plus never sent a swab to 23 and Me.

No kids yet, but looking at my husband and I, I feel like it's pretty unlikely we make a neurotypical child. Which isn't a problem in and of itself...

I know, been meaning to get into late parent’s computer and try to delete 23 & me info. I thought that was a stupid data mining trap to begin with.

swashbucklinstache

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #319 on: April 23, 2025, 06:24:06 PM »

Data is just data. It’s neither good nor bad.

Data in the wrong hands can be lead to very bad outcomes. My first thought was that the US is loving towards eugenics. It’s a slippery slope. Scary stuff.

Indeed.  One reason the Nazis were so effective at murdering Jews in Holland was because that was one of the datapoints on the Dutch census.  In itself a fairly innocuous question and in good hands it is worth asking.  In the wrong hands it led to monstrosity.

I'm not thinking the people in charge right now qualify as 'good hands'.
I agree with this too. I feel it is important to make it clear to others outside that this isn't really a big step. It's now slightly easier for the administration to be intentionally or unintentionally destructive. For now, I'll keep an eye on who applies to be the research contractors  using this data and what the policy leaders say as their goals more than anything in this. As you say, the people pulling the strings is what matters not the data itself.

Of course it's still bad security practice and terribly disappointing privacy practice and should never have happened. It's a tragedy for states rights. The data are separate for a reason exactly like some government processes are inefficient for a reason.

If I'm a conspiracy theorist it's not hard to draw a line from the above to US and non-US big tech having kompromat on pretty much all political and business leaders plus every regular citizen, doing with it what they wish.

Gremlin

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #320 on: April 23, 2025, 10:41:22 PM »
Suddenly pleased I've never been diagnosed with anything, plus never sent a swab to 23 and Me.

No kids yet, but looking at my husband and I, I feel like it's pretty unlikely we make a neurotypical child. Which isn't a problem in and of itself...

I know, been meaning to get into late parent’s computer and try to delete 23 & me info. I thought that was a stupid data mining trap to begin with.

Indeed.  For many of the traits that might be of interest to the nefarious, it doesn't matter if you haven't swabbed to 23 and Me if one of your close relatives have.

moustachebar

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #321 on: April 24, 2025, 10:10:56 AM »
What private records do they have/ can they get access to?

The article mentions as sources: insurance claims (ACA only or more?), Medicare, Medicaid, fitness trackers (what info is available there?)

Are people rethinking seeking diagnosis or care or self censoring when seeing health care providers?

swashbucklinstache

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #322 on: April 24, 2025, 12:26:19 PM »
What private records do they have/ can they get access to?

The article mentions as sources: insurance claims (ACA only or more?), Medicare, Medicaid, fitness trackers (what info is available there?)

Are people rethinking seeking diagnosis or care or self censoring when seeing health care providers?
There's no reason it must be limited to ACA plans but it could be. The federal government already has a lot of this data from private insurers and can combine it with their data on a limited basis. This reads as they're attempting to broaden that basis to generalize that combining instead of purpose-specific use cases. Or they go nuclear and force private insurers to provide all this data which seems unlikely.

Fitness tracker data is likely to be limited to what you've agreed to share with your insurer or hospital system. This is often an incentive-based program, perhaps sharing how often you exercise and getting a gift card if you meet criteria. The federal government already has some of this data, up to all of it that they're discussing here. Or they go nuclear and force big tech to give them all the data which seems unlikely. That's pretty unlikely imo because those companies pay incredible amounts for that data in the form of developing free-to-consumer applications that collect this data and they use it for advertising I.e. their revenue.

You omitted or missed these other sources
Quote
Medication records from pharmacy chains, lab testing and genomics data from patients treated by the Department of Veterans Affairs and Indian Health Service
The first one newly relates to private insurers only, except the subset they already have, since the Fed has this Medicare and Medicaid data. The latter they already have too but it's historically been difficult to get access to combine it with other data.

To emphasize, without detail it's difficult to get too worked up about a registry of disease. This could be as little as standardized code that pulls this together in a standardized way to ease studies. Things like that already exist in both federal and private healthcare analytics for all kinds of diseases. Frankly I'd be unsurprised if this is them publicizing and trying to take credit for something that already exists =). Maybe they're enriching the data, maybe that only enriches it a small amount compared to just using Medicaid data.

I have concerns with this, and others can reasonably too not even for slippery slope reasons. The slippery slope is incredibly evil and this very, very slightly makes that slope more likely. But it isn't definitely, inherently a mustache-twirling evil plan. Again, an effort was undertaken under the Biden administration to identify pregnant women on Medicaid that was similar to this on the ground. It was hugely helpful. We should be wary lest, had that work completed in 2025, we'd have decried it as an anti-abortion slash welfare queen witch-hunt.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 12:30:17 PM by swashbucklinstache »

Morning Glory

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #323 on: April 24, 2025, 12:58:17 PM »
They have education data too now, or will soon.  IDEA is moving to hhs and doge may have already taken the data. IEPs contain basic medical information and reports from special education teachers as well as OT and speech. They are quite detailed about the child's specific areas where they need support, and contain a functional score that is a proxy for IQ. For children that inconsistently perform on testing,  it often makes their abilities seem less than they really are.

 I am fucking terrified.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 01:03:26 PM by Morning Glory »

NorthernIkigai

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #324 on: April 25, 2025, 12:24:47 AM »
I have concerns with this, and others can reasonably too not even for slippery slope reasons. The slippery slope is incredibly evil and this very, very slightly makes that slope more likely. But it isn't definitely, inherently a mustache-twirling evil plan. Again, an effort was undertaken under the Biden administration to identify pregnant women on Medicaid that was similar to this on the ground. It was hugely helpful. We should be wary lest, had that work completed in 2025, we'd have decried it as an anti-abortion slash welfare queen witch-hunt.

I'm sure the rest of your point is excellent, but I don't think drawing this parallel is quite fair. Pregnancy is not a lifelong condition, or even a disorder of any kind. I have been pregnant in a (voluntary) system that tracks you extensively and offers a lot of services and help at no cost to the user. All that information about me exists somewhere, it was collected for a good reason, and it is pretty irrelevant now that I am not pregnant anymore. It will not come back to haunt me later in my life.

swashbucklinstache

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #325 on: April 25, 2025, 08:08:51 AM »
I have concerns with this, and others can reasonably too not even for slippery slope reasons. The slippery slope is incredibly evil and this very, very slightly makes that slope more likely. But it isn't definitely, inherently a mustache-twirling evil plan. Again, an effort was undertaken under the Biden administration to identify pregnant women on Medicaid that was similar to this on the ground. It was hugely helpful. We should be wary lest, had that work completed in 2025, we'd have decried it as an anti-abortion slash welfare queen witch-hunt.

I'm sure the rest of your point is excellent, but I don't think drawing this parallel is quite fair. Pregnancy is not a lifelong condition, or even a disorder of any kind. I have been pregnant in a (voluntary) system that tracks you extensively and offers a lot of services and help at no cost to the user. All that information about me exists somewhere, it was collected for a good reason, and it is pretty irrelevant now that I am not pregnant anymore. It will not come back to haunt me later in my life.
All fair points, except your last sentence outs you as more optimistic than me if we imagined you were on Medicaid =). I can picture a desantis or the zodiac killer saying the state paid for you to be born and that was your handout so it's only fair that federal college funds should go to kids the state didn't pay to be born or some such nonsense. Transparently speaking, I used the pregnancy example because it was recent and hugely helpful. A more complete showing from me would have included another example such as identifying type 1 and type 2 diabetics which is surprisingly difficult in Medicare & Medicaid data and benefits hugely from enrichment.

Maybe we'll get lucky and find out all the doge intra-agency data expatriation was creating enriched data like this. All the other insane downsides of how they did it apply, and right after this I'm going back to my other tab looking for coastal properties for sale in Nebraska, but maybe. To be clear, from an IRB stance the ends absolutely do not justify the means even in such an optimistic scenario, but right now I'd take those ends.

Villanelle

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #326 on: April 25, 2025, 09:05:43 AM »
People are going to stop getting diagnosed (or taking their hids to be diagnosed) for fear of being on this registry and whatever might come of that, which means they will also receive less or no treatment.  (This, ironically, will mean they are more likely to struggle to be good little tax-payers.)  That means RFK and Trump will be able to claim they have solved the "autism" crisis because in just a couple years, x% fewer people have autism!  Brilliant. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #327 on: April 25, 2025, 01:04:56 PM »
People are going to stop getting diagnosed (or taking their kids to be diagnosed) for fear of being on this registry and whatever might come of that, which means they will also receive less or no treatment.  (This, ironically, will mean they are more likely to struggle to be good little tax-payers.)  That means RFK and Trump will be able to claim they have solved the "autism" crisis because in just a couple years, x% fewer people have autism!  Brilliant.

Very few people were diagnosed in the 50s and 60s.  We were so mentally healthy then.  The 50s were the golden age for everything.   /s

NorthernIkigai

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #328 on: April 28, 2025, 03:25:41 AM »
I have concerns with this, and others can reasonably too not even for slippery slope reasons. The slippery slope is incredibly evil and this very, very slightly makes that slope more likely. But it isn't definitely, inherently a mustache-twirling evil plan. Again, an effort was undertaken under the Biden administration to identify pregnant women on Medicaid that was similar to this on the ground. It was hugely helpful. We should be wary lest, had that work completed in 2025, we'd have decried it as an anti-abortion slash welfare queen witch-hunt.

I'm sure the rest of your point is excellent, but I don't think drawing this parallel is quite fair. Pregnancy is not a lifelong condition, or even a disorder of any kind. I have been pregnant in a (voluntary) system that tracks you extensively and offers a lot of services and help at no cost to the user. All that information about me exists somewhere, it was collected for a good reason, and it is pretty irrelevant now that I am not pregnant anymore. It will not come back to haunt me later in my life.
All fair points, except your last sentence outs you as more optimistic than me if we imagined you were on Medicaid =). I can picture a desantis or the zodiac killer saying the state paid for you to be born and that was your handout so it's only fair that federal college funds should go to kids the state didn't pay to be born or some such nonsense. Transparently speaking, I used the pregnancy example because it was recent and hugely helpful. A more complete showing from me would have included another example such as identifying type 1 and type 2 diabetics which is surprisingly difficult in Medicare & Medicaid data and benefits hugely from enrichment.

Maybe we'll get lucky and find out all the doge intra-agency data expatriation was creating enriched data like this. All the other insane downsides of how they did it apply, and right after this I'm going back to my other tab looking for coastal properties for sale in Nebraska, but maybe. To be clear, from an IRB stance the ends absolutely do not justify the means even in such an optimistic scenario, but right now I'd take those ends.

Yes, me saying this data will not come back to haunt me is absolutely tied to the societal and legal context I'm in. And perhaps also to my naivety -- we've all seen how quickly things can change.

Metalcat

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Re: At what point should we consider fleeing the United States?
« Reply #329 on: May 01, 2025, 10:38:32 PM »
So...uh...

Let's hire the guy who used to chemically castrate autistic children (without a medical license) to help figure out the cause of and how to treat autism.


 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!