Most people have no business owning a house (self-righteous rant)

[KBecks]

And OMG, have you ever gone to an open house where the house was built in the 1920's, 1940's, or 1960's and was NEVER UPDATED???  What's up with that?

Um, the homeowners liked it that way?

That's how you get a good deal on a house.

[accolay]

A house I have used to be the worst in the neighborhood. A neighbor told me a story that someone had left her a free lawn mower, tank full of gas with a sign that said "use me."

In my city, we have some pretty basic property laws to keep people in check. You have to mow your law, shovel the snow, keep it garbage free and any cars on the property have to be registered, to keep junk cars from happening.

There are more broken window ordinances on the books that they stopped enforcing aggressively 5-10 years ago, but they could still be used to keep a problem house in check, but I think they really only get used when things start to get really bad, or it's a problem property.

[A Definite Beta Guy]

It's amazing how ingrained having a "nice" yard is in our culture. They're dandelions, ffs. It's not broken glass and syringes.

- Grass clippings left on the yard help fertilize it.
- Sidewalk concrete maintenance is often the city's responsibility because it's in the easement. Besides, most homeowners would fuck it up and make it lawsuit-worthy worse.
- Weed and feed? Fuck that shit. It flushes down the storm sewers and contaminates the river.
- English Ivy growing up the side of houses? That's a great look (though dangerous on most siding, especially wood).

Today, I am thankful that I live in a laid back neighborhood that doesn't care about my out-of-control xeriscaped yard. Or maybe my neighbors do care but I don't have any fucks to give.

Yup.  Life is too short to give any fucks about maintaining wasteful artificial mono-cultures.

This!  Maybe I'm affected by the drought, and laziness?

My  neighbor up the street works from home.  And she takes great care of her yard. She has a variety of low water plants in her front, and I was so happy to see the bees happily buzzing away up there. My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

Our lawn (the back lawn) died a few years ago, about 3 years into the multi-year drought.  We are still not out of the drought (one of the few areas in CA).  I do not have a lawn to mow, I have a dirt patch.  We did remove several dying trees when we moved in.  We are "that neighbor" with dirt and lots of gopher holes in the front, but a very nice hedge.

Honestly - we both have full time jobs.  And two kids.  I just don't really give a rat's ass about the dirt patch.  I keep my kids alive and happy.  *some day* we may replace the dirt patch with Silver Carpet, or another low-water low-maintenance ground cover.  But that day will not come until *after* replacing the sewer line. 

And OMG, have you ever gone to an open house where the house was built in the 1920's, 1940's, or 1960's and was NEVER UPDATED???  What's up with that?

Um, the homeowners liked it that way?

I think people might have a better appreciation for what's important if they actually had to do some more of their own maintenance. Which kind of goes right back into the topic of this thread, I guess!

A lot of people seem to think that houses just magically maintain themselves and the most important thing is what color granite is on your countertop.

[Freedom2016]

This has been an interesting thread to read. I tried to attach a picture of part of our yard (not sure if it worked) - the raised hill is our septic leaching field. We moved here a year ago and inherited the grass and gardens as they are.

We don't water or fertilize the grass, and there are definitely dandelions, other weeds, and mushrooms that spring up. We do keep it mowed, though, and we weed the various gardens. Yes, yard care takes time, but unlike others on this thread who would see that as a drag on other things they'd like to do, I enjoy yard work and always have. It forces me outside, mowing is a great 'instant gratification' task (plus alone time), and we all love hanging out outside in a nicely tended yard in the warm months. To wit, last night my book group ladies came over and we drank wine and ate sorbet outside.

Last year we had drought conditions and the yard went dormant mid-July. I have no idea what grass species we have - I know there are several - they were various shades of brown for much of the summer. It looked bad, but then, everybody's yard did. <shrug>

[A Definite Beta Guy]

Freedom,

I agree that yardwork is actually among the more rewarding, less intensive tasks. If you ask me to mow the lawn or wash the dishes, I'll mow the lawn 10 times out of 10.

Fertilizing, if you choose to do so, is relatively simple. Edging is a problematic, but not a huge issue.

I spent 4 hours filling in siding holes with wood filler and repairing a rotted window frame. That's irritating. It's even more irritating knowing that I still have to prime and paint the crap, and then I had to spend another 3 hours washing the storms, panes, and frames of only 5 other windows, and I still have another 15 to go. And that's not done, either, because I need to revarnish all of them, too.

Yeah, yardwork looks easy by comparison....

Can't wait for when that roof needs to be replaced....I hear that's a blast.

[ariapluscat]

i've definitely seen this with older family members. i think it's nice that the most recent grandparent was able to move into an apartment that specifically caters to older people. i don't know if this existed in time for my other relatives.

i also really feel your complaint about the gutter problem. it can eventually mess up the problem person's own house and cause flooding so it's a bit more serious than the lawn. some of it is about making the initial investment like ppl are saying about the yard, getting the right grass, knowing how septic works. i know my family got taken advantage of when constructing the house. we didn't get covered gutters and my grandfather didn't have the experience of a larger/nicer home/construction to know that they were cutting corners. for the next 30 yrs we struggled with the baby trees in the gutter! and it only took a few weeks in the spring to have that problem.

otoh, since my grandfather was from a rural area he was really good about planning for the septic tank between grass and trees for pH and root depth. maybe it's not just laziness or lack of funds. could it be they literally don't know how?

[Drifterrider]

How many of you know if you let your grass "go to seed" (literally) several times per year and don't bag the clippings, you are reseeding your lawn; for free?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

There is no correlation between those two statements, whatsoever. You are aware that RoundUp is an herbicide, not an insecticide, aren't you?

[dougules]

Blame the folks that voted in zoning that promotes sprawl.  In my city it's illegal to build anything other than houses with a big lot or "garden" apartments with big parking lots.  Your options are a house with a huge lawn or a crappy apartment that still costs more over the long run than all the expenses with the house.  Townhouses, small lot houses, or condos are uncommon, expensive, and only available in a few neighborhoods. 

A lot of us don't want to have to maintain a big house and a huge lawn, but the law makes it a moral imperative.  Don't blame us if we don't care to mow every 3 days.

So you're THAT neighbor....

+1

[PoutineLover]

When I was growing my house was the one with the big wild garden, kinda long grass and lots of dandelions. I don't believe in wasting water on watering lawns or using chemicals to control naturally growing plants. Weeds are a social construct. Our neighbor was down on his hands and knees trimming the grass around his carefully outlined garden plots with scissors every week, that was nuts. Basic maintenance like cleaning the gutters, replacing the roof and painting dilapidated shutters should be done of course, if only to prevent bigger issues down the line. My landlord is a piece of shit and won't do anything to fix my apartment, but I got sick of the shitty walls and painted them myself because I have to see them every day. The neglect is going to cause issues though, and eventually it will cost more money than if it had just been maintained in the first place. Not gonna be my problem.
OP might be better off in a neighborhood where rules are strictly enforced, but that would be my personal hell. If moving isn't on the table than that quote about accepting the things you cannot change is applicable here.

[BlueHouse]

My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

There is no correlation between those two statements, whatsoever. You are aware that RoundUp is an herbicide, not an insecticide, aren't you?

Last year, after a decade-long battle, the EPA finally admitted that Roundup had a devastating effect on the bee population and may be a major contributor to Colony Collapse.  But I'm sure all that data's gone now.

[A Definite Beta Guy]

My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

There is no correlation between those two statements, whatsoever. You are aware that RoundUp is an herbicide, not an insecticide, aren't you?

Last year, after a decade-long battle, the EPA finally admitted that Roundup had a devastating effect on the bee population and may be a major contributor to Colony Collapse.  But I'm sure all that data's gone now.

Uhhh...not to cast aspersions, but I am having trouble finding reference to this.

[Lauran75]

So .. what books / websites / resources would you suggest for first time homeowners who may have lived in houses growing up, but then spent 15 - 20+ years in apartments (and really don't know much.)? 

We live in a 1952 built home with one previous owner. It has 5/8th of an acre - mostly backyard. A fair amount of trees/bushes and a garden space (full of weeds at the moment - mowed over weeds.). The previous homeowners did a lot of DIY stuff in the house (built their own cabinets for the upstairs kitchen, the closets are definitely not standard closets, etc., etc.)

My DH wanted the big yard and the basement. I just wanted something with enough yard for a small garden and a decent kitchen. Neither of us were quite prepared for how much work it really would be. Our property before we bought it was meticulously maintained - the wife was out there the day before we moved in trimming the hedges. To put it mildly, we have not maintained their standards.

My husband was supposed to do all the yard/house maintenance, and I do the inside - but he has been overwhelmed. (So have I to a certain extent, going from 1 cat to many cats. The cat fur. The hairballs. The necessary litterboxes ...)

Where can we learn the minimal amount of maintenance to make sure our house / yard doesn't fall apart/cost us $$$ repairs later?

[accolay]

So .. what books / websites / resources would you suggest for first time homeowners who may have lived in houses growing up, but then spent 15 - 20+ years in apartments (and really don't know much.)? 

Where can we learn the minimal amount of maintenance to make sure our house / yard doesn't fall apart/cost us $$$ repairs later?

Pave over the yard? Seriously though, like all maintenance, once you establish a standard, it's a lot easier going forward to keep it the way you want.

Clean your gutters once a year. While you're up there look at the roof and no shingles are coming up. Look around the house every year and see if the paint or siding etc is in good shape. Turn off the water to your water hose, drain it and put it away before winter. If you have window wells, cover them and make sure they are intact. Keep the dirt/yard from encroaching on your sidewalks.

As for yard work, it all depends on what you want your yard to be. If you're not used to doing yard work, start by spending 20 min a day out in the yard doing something for a few weeks. Weed, clip some hedge, pile up the brush, whatever. Mow the lawn once a week. Over time, ramp up that time to what is reasonable to you. If you want it perfect, you'll have to spend more time. Or hire a lawn service to do it for you.

[Lauran75]

So .. what books / websites / resources would you suggest for first time homeowners who may have lived in houses growing up, but then spent 15 - 20+ years in apartments (and really don't know much.)? 

Where can we learn the minimal amount of maintenance to make sure our house / yard doesn't fall apart/cost us $$$ repairs later?

Pave over the yard? Seriously though, like all maintenance, once you establish a standard, it's a lot easier going forward to keep it the way you want.

Clean your gutters once a year. While you're up there look at the roof and no shingles are coming up. Look around the house every year and see if the paint or siding etc is in good shape. Turn off the water to your water hose, drain it and put it away before winter. If you have window wells, cover them and make sure they are intact. Keep the dirt/yard from encroaching on your sidewalks.

As for yard work, it all depends on what you want your yard to be. If you're not used to doing yard work, start by spending 20 min a day out in the yard doing something for a few weeks. Weed, clip some hedge, pile up the brush, whatever. Mow the lawn once a week. Over time, ramp up that time to what is reasonable to you. If you want it perfect, you'll have to spend more time. Or hire a lawn service to do it for you.

Thanks!

Speaking of window wells - we have a lot of those. All but two have either cracked or missing covers. We looked at the ones at ACE and Home Depot, etc., but they were the wrong dimensions. We've also tried finding them online. Where could we get custom ones? I think the wells were another DIY project from previous homeowner.

[A Definite Beta Guy]

My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

There is no correlation between those two statements, whatsoever. You are aware that RoundUp is an herbicide, not an insecticide, aren't you?

Last year, after a decade-long battle, the EPA finally admitted that Roundup had a devastating effect on the bee population and may be a major contributor to Colony Collapse.  But I'm sure all that data's gone now.

Uhhh...not to cast aspersions, but I am having trouble finding reference to this.

This took about two seconds to find with a google search for roundup bees: http://www.motherjones.com/food/2016/01/epa-finds-major-pesticide-toxic-bees/

It's Mother Jones, I know, but the relevant quotes are from linked EPA publications. Which have in fact been taken down, heh.

That's what I found when I googled, but that's not referring to roundup. It's referring to neonicotinoids, which are insecticides that attack the central nervous system. Wiki has an uncited comment saying you can spray it on plants to help them grow. Round-up is a herbicide that works by inhibiting plant enzymes.

So as far as I can tell, two different beasts. I am trying to find reference to Roundup and bees, but I saw a bunch of websites that had titles like "savethebees.com."

It looks like the EPA is still considering rules to address the neonicotinoids and is asking for public comment: https://www.epa.gov/pesticides/epa-releases-four-neonicotinoid-risk-assessments-public-comment

[BudgetSlasher]

OP go live in a stuffy hoa neighbourhood with nosey neighbours. You can lead the association and wander around the neighbourhood leaving notices in everyone's mail boxes about their yards, driveways, laundry hanging etc. You'll feel real big and real good about yourself I'm sure.

I have to second that; why pay weed and feed on a regular basis to fight dandelions to pay for artificially fixed nitrogen to feed a plant that is not eaten (grass) and kill a plant that can be eaten (dandelions greens).

[Monocle Money Mouth]

OP go live in a stuffy hoa neighbourhood with nosey neighbours. You can lead the association and wander around the neighbourhood leaving notices in everyone's mail boxes about their yards, driveways, laundry hanging etc. You'll feel real big and real good about yourself I'm sure.

I have to second that; why pay weed and feed on a regular basis to fight dandelions to pay for artificially fixed nitrogen to feed a plant that is not eaten (grass) and kill a plant that can be eaten (dandelions greens).

Does anybody that lives in a suburb actually harvest the dandelions in their front yard to eat?

[PoutineLover]

We used to feed them to our rabbits

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My other friend has tried to do the same, but her nextdoor neighbor uses RoundUp, and she cannot get the bees to come at all.

There is no correlation between those two statements, whatsoever. You are aware that RoundUp is an herbicide, not an insecticide, aren't you?

Last year, after a decade-long battle, the EPA finally admitted that Roundup had a devastating effect on the bee population and may be a major contributor to Colony Collapse.  But I'm sure all that data's gone now.

Uhhh...not to cast aspersions, but I am having trouble finding reference to this.

This took about two seconds to find with a google search for roundup bees: http://www.motherjones.com/food/2016/01/epa-finds-major-pesticide-toxic-bees/

It's Mother Jones, I know, but the relevant quotes are from linked EPA publications. Which have in fact been taken down, heh.

That's what I found when I googled, but that's not referring to roundup. It's referring to neonicotinoids, which are insecticides that attack the central nervous system. Wiki has an uncited comment saying you can spray it on plants to help them grow. Round-up is a herbicide that works by inhibiting plant enzymes.

So as far as I can tell, two different beasts. I am trying to find reference to Roundup and bees, but I saw a bunch of websites that had titles like "savethebees.com."

It looks like the EPA is still considering rules to address the neonicotinoids and is asking for public comment: https://www.epa.gov/pesticides/epa-releases-four-neonicotinoid-risk-assessments-public-comment

^This. Thank you, Beta Guy. We're all clear here that the word "RoundUp" is not synonymous with "pesticide" aren't we? I do not use neonics in my garden or orchard precisely because of their connection to CCD, but I have no qualms about using RoundUp. It's about as harmless as a pesticide can be.

[accolay]

^This. Thank you, Beta Guy. We're all clear here that the word "RoundUp" is not synonymous with "pesticide" aren't we? I do not use neonics in my garden or orchard precisely because of their connection to CCD, but I have no qualms about using RoundUp. It's about as harmless as a pesticide can be.

I'm not sure I would use the word harmless describing any chemicals I don't need to put into the environment. Additionally, besides having to shell out cash for said chemical IMHO Monsanto is a pretty fucking evil company.

[iris lily]

Glyphosate has had a lot more debate, but there have been a couple of studies linking it to bee cognitive decline as well. I think people are more worried about that one for the back-and-forth conversation we've seen about cancer risks lately. I agree that "harmless" is probably overstating it, though I can see why there's been much more waffling about regulating it.

I thought the cancer attributes to,Roundup had more to do with additives in the mix than the active ingrediant with is glyphosate. no?

I use Roundup when I need to, mainly on  brick sidewalks. although I am planning to mve a section of iris to a clean bed and then Roundup the hell on a section of flower bed that has a nasty Johnsoj grass infestation.

[Syonyk]

Vinegar makes a pretty good weed killer.  I hear salted vinegar makes for a good "Kill the weeds and DO NOT GROW BACK" type spray material.

[iris lily]

Vinegar makes a pretty good weed killer.  I hear salted vinegar makes for a good "Kill the weeds and DO NOT GROW BACK" type spray material.

There isnt any compound that may kill weeds forever that  I would wish to use on any ground near me.

I figured someone would come on to talk about the vinegar,  salt, hot water, etc fix. That is nice, but I have brick sidewalks at multiple properties and wont be using that stuff. Pouring salt into to the ground for years probably isn't a good idea, but I havent researched real consequences. OTOH, a community garden participant here uses the vinegar and salt combo on the patio there, and everyone thinks that is fine. So who knows.

[RetiredAt63]

Vinegar kills leaves but not roots.  When I used 20% acetic acid (yes, 20%, cooking vinegar is 5% or 6%) on my poison ivy it killed the leaves.  I got lots of new plants from the roots.

Salt affects water and nutrient uptake by roots until it leaches out.  Air-borne salt kills foliage.  Salt-tolerant plants get planted along highways because of this.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

^This. Thank you, Beta Guy. We're all clear here that the word "RoundUp" is not synonymous with "pesticide" aren't we? I do not use neonics in my garden or orchard precisely because of their connection to CCD, but I have no qualms about using RoundUp. It's about as harmless as a pesticide can be.

I'm not sure I would use the word harmless describing any chemicals I don't need to put into the environment. Additionally, besides having to shell out cash for said chemical IMHO Monsanto is a pretty fucking evil company.

I disagree with you humble opinion. Monsanto has done far more good for humankind that say, Coca-Cola, yet somehow coke has a spotless reputation for peddling its diabetes-inducing swill, while Monsanto has an "evil" reputation for using litigation to protect patents that improve crop yields while reducing dependence on fossil fuel inputs, insecticides, and fungicides. That being said, Monsanto doesn't get any of my money when I buy RoundUp, because glyphosate has been off-patent for 20 years and I buy a cheap generic version that is probably manufactured in some sub-minimum-wage manufacturing wasteland in Mumbai. Frankly, it would do more good if I spent extra to buy it from Monsanto, because they'd use the profits to re-invest in agricultural technologies that actually have a chance at feeding the world's population when it hits 15 billion while the global average temperature climbs another 4*C.

[merula]

Does anybody that lives in a suburb actually harvest the dandelions in their front yard to eat?

*Raises hand*

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "suburb". I live in the city, but in the 1910s when my house was built, my neighborhood was a "streetcar suburb": mostly single-family homes with moderately-sized yards. And I don't actually like dandelion greens, but my husband and children will eat them right from the ground, and I'm fine with them if there's enough other greens and salad dressing.