Author Topic: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?  (Read 162961 times)

obstinate

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2018, 08:38:16 AM »
I guess you can say it's an unhappy "situation".
Not even necessarily. There are cases where two people both just aren't feeling it any more, and decide to split ways amicably. "Hey, we had a great time together, but we're not having such a great time any more." I have personally met former couples in this camp.

For the people who are saying this is "fair game" (what a terrible term), and that this scrutiny is something MMM must endure if he wants to have a public blog, have you considered the possibility that he may desire privacy more than he desires to continue the blog? You are essentially saying, "MMM, if you desire privacy in the most intimate of your personal details, I would prefer for you to shut down the blog, rather than fail to answer my stupid questions about your relationship."

Is that really how you folks feel? Has the man added so little value to your life that this is your way of showing appreciation? Because that's the implication of your behavior, and it is a very real possible outcome of this type of scrutiny. It would not be the first time such a thing has happened.

MayDay

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2018, 08:52:12 AM »
I guess you can say it's an unhappy "situation".
Not even necessarily. There are cases where two people both just aren't feeling it any more, and decide to split ways amicably. "Hey, we had a great time together, but we're not having such a great time any more." I have personally met former couples in this camp.

For the people who are saying this is "fair game" (what a terrible term), and that this scrutiny is something MMM must endure if he wants to have a public blog, have you considered the possibility that he may desire privacy more than he desires to continue the blog? You are essentially saying, "MMM, if you desire privacy in the most intimate of your personal details, I would prefer for you to shut down the blog, rather than fail to answer my stupid questions about your relationship."

Is that really how you folks feel? Has the man added so little value to your life that this is your way of showing appreciation? Because that's the implication of your behavior, and it is a very real possible outcome of this type of scrutiny. It would not be the first time such a thing has happened.

I mean, yah. If he truly doesn't want speculation, then he has to end the public side of things. Once you let the privacy cat out of the bag, it's out, and the consequence of that is that even if you want privacy, you don't get it. He traded his privacy (in good times and bad) for money and furthering his ideas.


partgypsy

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #152 on: November 13, 2018, 09:03:23 AM »
Well I admit it he doesn't owe us anything but at the same time he is now a public figure and people are going to be curious, especially as part of his blog was about them doing it together (FI).
And he has given interviews before giving a lot of personal details about his life. below, a new yorker interview from 2016 interviews with him at home with his wife and child (plenty of psychoanalysis thrown in).


"One gets a sense of a family living under a benevolent dictatorship, where every act or decision is subject to review or scrutiny. The Mustachian mission is pervasive, like the ďrevolutionĒ in Cuba. On walks with Simon, Adeney sometimes maintains a running critique of the instances of excess and waste they encounter along the way. He is aware that he is a handful. He imagines that his wifeís inner voice whispers, ďYour relentless optimizations are a drain on my life energy.Ē

letsdoit

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #153 on: November 13, 2018, 09:18:37 AM »
it's all about him

MayDay

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #154 on: November 13, 2018, 09:32:29 AM »
I don't think he owes anyone more details, but the speculation is par for the course when you become a public figure. And people (understandably) don't feel bad about that when you've made money off being a public figure.

Equating it to having a private FB page is not reasonable. It is more like having a public Instagram feed and trying to build up thousands of followers to become an influencer (or whatever it's called, I don't do Instagram).

Goldielocks

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #155 on: November 13, 2018, 09:41:26 AM »
Obviously a split and a divorce is a sign of an intensely unhappy relationship / life situation.
Not necessarily.  It's possible that MMM was happy and his wife was not.  Or the other way around.  I guess you can say it's an unhappy "situation", but my point is that it may be viewed that way by just one spouse (and not the other).

That would be especially unhappy for the formerly happy spouse when it came to light, though?   A separation / divorce is never a "life fills me with joy" process.

Quote
  (From Obsinate)
Not even necessarily. There are cases where two people both just aren't feeling it any more, and decide to split ways amicably. "Hey, we had a great time together, but we're not having such a great time any more." I have personally met former couples in this camp.

In reflection, this sounds like the most horrible thing of all.  Can you imagine being in a relationship that is so IDK.. understated..for years.... that it ends in a shrug and "nice to meet you".?   A relationship with children involved?   Now my inner MMM is showing.  My drive for FIRE was for freedom from work situations, including the dull and eternally boring work situations.  Having a homelife like that is the exact opposite of MMM life for me.

I can accept the divorce from a MMM angle -- life is about growing and changing and living the best possible life that you can, with the best possible impact on the people and the world around you (hopefully with a small footprint).   When life stops being about trying and joy things happen.

The challenge is that the earlier voice / image of MMM is pervasive when you re-read old posts and vast majority of the Blog content (by virtue of number of posts) and now, perhaps like Suzie Orman,  the public image that he strives to maintain the past couple of years after $$$ in FIRE, is a disconnect from current realities, and I feel a tiny bit hoodwinked by it, even if understandable.  the message of figuring out the joy in living the life you truly want / need.

I guess what I would like are a few more "honest" posts about the struggle in FIRE and why it is still great.  (Does not have to be about relationships, but that would be nice because I connect with personal stories the most).  I am not as invested in the eternally happy posts, for a while now, really.  I am FIRE now, and pre retirement challenges (a few) still remain...  check out some journals.  Depression does not go away, nor other health issues.. money is less so you might worry a bit more about it (in a different way). 

 I would love to read more about facing challenges while living a life well.  Change can be sad and disturbing for a while, but it does not have to be bad.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 09:58:56 AM by Goldielocks »

MasterStache

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #156 on: November 13, 2018, 10:34:47 AM »
Well, all of my grandparents are deceased, so you are at least younger than me.

All my grandparents were deceased by the time I was 22. What does that have to do with relative age of posters?

Going way off topic, but this was a reply to MasterStache and was meant only as a comment about emotional maturity, not physical maturity.  Probably should have just been a PM.

Age may or may not play a role in emotional maturity. So it's still an irrelevant question.

Cassie

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #157 on: November 13, 2018, 11:06:13 AM »
The Tightwad Gazette has been around for decades and this family is frugal and living their values.   You can become indifferent in a marriage and just want out with no drama.

partgypsy

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #158 on: November 13, 2018, 11:13:52 AM »
Wow, can't believe this thread has pushed to 4 pages. Personally, I think the most helpful thing to come out of this would be a companion thread in which people who have faced marital issues post-FIRE (possibly even leading to divorce) felt comfortable sharing insights into how it affected their situation/plans. Divorce can be a pretty negative shock to a family's finances, and a portfolio that could comfortably support one married household would seem to be a lot leaner if it had to support two households. I suppose one could factor the possibility into pre-FIRE planning, but that might seem a little calculating.

Frankly, I don't think Pete would be best situated to offer this advice, because his family's financial circumstances are likely no longer typical of FIRE households. He has become a brand, and I would think that she is entitled to a share of the continuing income from monetizing that brand.

I think this is an interesting topic. Though obviously this is all probably too close to home to talk about probably for awhile. It is similar when possibly one partner loses a lot of weight, or comes into a lot of money. Even though both benefit it may change the dynamics of the relationship. In the same way striving and sacrificing for FI, is different than "living" FI especially if both people had different ideas of what that end goal looks like. Money doesn't solve all problems. In some cases it can cause them.   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 11:17:37 AM by partgypsy »

EnjoyIt

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #159 on: November 13, 2018, 11:14:57 AM »
Once his life became public in addition he monetized his life successfully it is natural for everyone to be curious about the good and the bad.  Yes, gross misinformed speculation is ugly, but it is understandable and frankly par for the course as it has always been with public figures who open and share their life with the world and receive monetary gain from it. 

Although I do not know this family personally I still wish that in the end everyone will be "ok" whatever that means.  Sure it would be nice to know more because human curiosity is human and maybe one day we will.  I don't want to speculate that FIRE lead to this divorce, but for now maybe it is a good idea for us to discuss (in another thread) some of the potential pitfalls of FIRE.  Maybe we can learn from each other.

tooqk4u22

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #160 on: November 13, 2018, 12:04:31 PM »
Some general thoughts about this thread and all of its comments:

1. Obviously this is all speculation/rumors - who knows if its true but this could add to it two fronts MMM Money Needed for House Purchase Frozen By Bank.  Buying a new house and sometimes banks freeze accounts during a divorce/separation per court order so spouse can't run off with money (instead of the fraud security measures cited could be a possibility)

2. But I agree with those that he made himself a public persona and this comes with it, whether its crass or not.

3. Divorce happens, a lot, its a reality, and there are thousands of causes but usually a bunch of little things that just add up.

4. People do grow apart.

5. I can see the possibility of them FIREing while younger and having a kid and buying into the frugality lifestyle is worth it to be home with the kid, but then over time especially as a windfall of unexpected cash comes in seeing that changing things.  Especially if one is spending a bunch of that money on "business pursuits" like MMM HQ, a home office shed, traveling, electric cars, etc....and for all we know was or wasn't part of all that or didn't really care about all that...but maybe there were things that she did but he said know.   Back to #3, resentment is big divorce item, once you have it its hard to get over.  And leading to...

6.  I could also see the dictator like dynamic being in play. 


I will say personally that me and DW have different views on lifestyle/spending levels - and neither is right or wrong.  We are a couple and a team so we have to work together and compromise (without judgment or resentment) - all too often couples don't see it this way.   That means working longer for the more frugal one so that we have enough to FIRE to meet the higher spending. Or the higher spender needs to work to pay for the extras. Or in reality somewhere in between. 

That's just the money, people can grow apart in other ways and while some will say that's outside of ones control, I don't think it fully is. Along the compromise, it behooves people to pay attention to their spouses and if their interests shift it makes sense to be part of that shift - learning new things is good for a relationship.  Be present, be aware, be flexible, be friends.......


Edited to add:

7.  I do think a divorce or not is relevant to the FIRE discussion, financially it can be crushing - possibly even for MMM.  Keep in mind that half of everything is the spouses (investments, MMM HQ, house, blog value and/or its income).  Don't get me wrong they should still be fine - but MMM may have to buy her out of things - and the Blog would be the hardest to figure (what's a blog worth - 5x revenue, 50% of that is pretty big) plus there may be alimony and child support.  Maybe that is why he is "fundraising" with more monetizing of the blog.
 

« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 01:12:26 PM by tooqk4u22 »

Schaefer Light

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #161 on: November 13, 2018, 12:31:25 PM »
Obviously a split and a divorce is a sign of an intensely unhappy relationship / life situation.
Not necessarily.  It's possible that MMM was happy and his wife was not.  Or the other way around.  I guess you can say it's an unhappy "situation", but my point is that it may be viewed that way by just one spouse (and not the other).

That would be especially unhappy for the formerly happy spouse when it came to light, though?   A separation / divorce is never a "life fills me with joy" process.
It's devastating when it comes to light.  I was just pointing out that the years leading up to it might not have been unhappy for one of them.

mm1970

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #162 on: November 13, 2018, 12:49:48 PM »
Whoa, take a weekend off and this happens.

Ya know, people get divorced.  Grow apart.  Sometimes one person is a jerk.  A lot of times, everyone's nice and all and it just. doesn't. work. out.

obstinate

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #163 on: November 13, 2018, 12:50:56 PM »
In reflection, this sounds like the most horrible thing of all.  Can you imagine being in a relationship that is so IDK.. understated..for years.... that it ends in a shrug and "nice to meet you".? A relationship with children involved?
I wouldn't say the situations I'm familiar with are quite that cavalier. There is some bittersweetness involved, sure, but from what I can tell of acrimonious divorces, bittersweet is way, way better than just bitter. Especially when there are children involved.

Arbitrage

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #164 on: November 13, 2018, 02:27:30 PM »
If true, I don't think it's completely irrelevant or crazy to be interested.  Here's my reasoning:

1. MMM and Ms. MM have invited us into their lives with many intimate details, posted on this blog.  It's natural to be interested.

2. Many of their articles have spoken of family and the importance of partnership.

3. How or why they ended it is relevant only if FIRE or excess frugality was a significant factor.  No interest in speculating here, and I do think speculation is in poor taste.

4. The aftermath would offer many opportunities for relevant, instructive blog posts.  I would not necessarily expect these blog posts to actually be written, but these issues sadly affect many people, and the MMM take would probably be appreciated. 

That said,
- I don't think either of them owes us anything.  Yes, they have built a small empire that provides them an enormous passive income, that now requires little to no effort on their parts.  They earned that. 

- Nothing about their lifestyle or strategy would be invalidated, regardless of any details.  They're a data point, an anecdote.  Saying anything is invalidated, even if FIRE were a factor, would be akin to saying that FIRE is possible only by making tons of blog income like they do.
 
- I wish them the best if this is true; especially the kid. 

Cycling Stache

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #165 on: November 13, 2018, 03:17:15 PM »
I think this thread raises a fair question that is not simply gossip, innuendo, etc.

I have to admit that I hope early retirement will help my personal relationships, including the relationship with my spouse, by removing work as a serious stressor.  While of course it would be ideal to live like that already, the reality is that stress has a negative effect on my interactions with my family.

The question raised here is whether something about the FIRE lifestyle may have contributed to a divorce.  Perhaps the amount of time spent together, the time to pursue passions that ultimately make spouses realize that their interests are no longer strongly aligned, disagreements about money and spending when everything seems financially set, etc.

While MMM is just one person, anecdotes matter when there is very little apparent data and he's ahead of the curve on early retirement.  The idea of MMM is that he removed work and financial stress from his life so that he and his wife could pursue their passions, and they seemed to have enough time and good feelings from that to be supportive, take care of their son, time for candlelit dinners, etc.  It seems reasonable to wonder whether there's some unintended consequence from early retirement, or did two people just grow apart, etc.

MMM of course has no obligation to chime in, and I'm not even really that interested in a breakdown of what may have gone wrong (if anything) if they did get divorced.  But to the extent that there is a consequence of early retirement that counter-intuitively could potentially harm relationships, that would be helpful to know.  Someone above posted about a possible thread of people who experienced relationship difficulties after early retirement.  While that would likely be difficult for many to discuss, it could help people learn about those factors and take steps to protect against them.

This issue seems very similar to the one about retiring "to" something rather than "from" something.  The idea there is that for people who just retired to get away from work, they often apparently feel lost and unsatisfied as they try to figure out the next thing to do.  That's not an intuitively obvious point, but one that seems to have affected a few early retirees and it's good to think about when planning an early retirement life.

Maenad

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #166 on: November 13, 2018, 03:27:19 PM »
$7 for a single bar of soap? Interesting choice of business.
Pretty typical of artisan soap.

Yeah, I've dipped my toe into soapmaking, and the special fats and scents and additives used in making frou-frou homemade soap are not cheap. It ain't just a bar of Dial with a handmade wrapper, and barring skin sensitivities, most people don't use it exclusively. It's a fun, consumable gift that lasts for a pretty long time and doesn't cost much per use. It's one of the hobbies I'm looking forward to in retirement, it'll use my chemistry background nicely.

iris lily

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #167 on: November 13, 2018, 07:47:30 PM »
$7 for a single bar of soap? Interesting choice of business.
Pretty typical of artisan soap.

Yeah, I've dipped my toe into soapmaking, and the special fats and scents and additives used in making frou-frou homemade soap are not cheap. It ain't just a bar of Dial with a handmade wrapper, and barring skin sensitivities, most people don't use it exclusively. It's a fun, consumable gift that lasts for a pretty long time and doesn't cost much per use. It's one of the hobbies I'm looking forward to in retirement, it'll use my chemistry background nicely.

This is not intended to pick on you, but it is another point of view about artisan soap.

I donít know when it became so popular a few years ago I guess but it became the gift that everyone gives. I participate in very little gift giving and yet bars of the stuff shows up at my house. I donít like it I just donít like it. It doesnít seem to lather up. I wish people would stop spending money on it and I wish they would stop giving it to me. I see it as another useless dumb thing of the moment.

jeninco

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #168 on: November 13, 2018, 09:28:24 PM »
$7 for a single bar of soap? Interesting choice of business.
Pretty typical of artisan soap.

Yeah, I've dipped my toe into soapmaking, and the special fats and scents and additives used in making frou-frou homemade soap are not cheap. It ain't just a bar of Dial with a handmade wrapper, and barring skin sensitivities, most people don't use it exclusively. It's a fun, consumable gift that lasts for a pretty long time and doesn't cost much per use. It's one of the hobbies I'm looking forward to in retirement, it'll use my chemistry background nicely.

This is not intended to pick on you, but it is another point of view about artisan soap.

I donít know when it became so popular a few years ago I guess but it became the gift that everyone gives. I participate in very little gift giving and yet bars of the stuff shows up at my house. I donít like it I just donít like it. It doesnít seem to lather up. I wish people would stop spending money on it and I wish they would stop giving it to me. I see it as another useless dumb thing of the moment.

Completely off-topic (but wtf): you can change lathering properties (as well as things like "creaminess") by adjusting what fats you're using. If you just make plain soap it's not horribly expensive (although not as cheap as you could buy on sale, with a coupon), and you know every single thing that's in it. You can also control how harsh it is by calculating to add a little extra fat (or a lot). You can choose to add scents and colors and strange ingredients, or not. We use olive oil, coconut oil (for better lathering), lye (mandatory to create the soap molecules) and water, and sometimes add a bit of fragrance (I think we're currently using orange blossom?)  It's a fairly fun and low-key hobby, and seems to be working on everyone's skin around here -- sensitive-skinned husband, acne-prone teenager, and the rest of us too all have clean faces and no crazy breakouts or rashes.

Linea_Norway

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #169 on: November 14, 2018, 12:51:46 AM »
I think this thread raises a fair question that is not simply gossip, innuendo, etc.

I have to admit that I hope early retirement will help my personal relationships, including the relationship with my spouse, by removing work as a serious stressor.  While of course it would be ideal to live like that already, the reality is that stress has a negative effect on my interactions with my family.

The question raised here is whether something about the FIRE lifestyle may have contributed to a divorce.  Perhaps the amount of time spent together, the time to pursue passions that ultimately make spouses realize that their interests are no longer strongly aligned, disagreements about money and spending when everything seems financially set, etc.

While MMM is just one person, anecdotes matter when there is very little apparent data and he's ahead of the curve on early retirement.  The idea of MMM is that he removed work and financial stress from his life so that he and his wife could pursue their passions, and they seemed to have enough time and good feelings from that to be supportive, take care of their son, time for candlelit dinners, etc.  It seems reasonable to wonder whether there's some unintended consequence from early retirement, or did two people just grow apart, etc.

MMM of course has no obligation to chime in, and I'm not even really that interested in a breakdown of what may have gone wrong (if anything) if they did get divorced.  But to the extent that there is a consequence of early retirement that counter-intuitively could potentially harm relationships, that would be helpful to know.  Someone above posted about a possible thread of people who experienced relationship difficulties after early retirement.  While that would likely be difficult for many to discuss, it could help people learn about those factors and take steps to protect against them.

This issue seems very similar to the one about retiring "to" something rather than "from" something.  The idea there is that for people who just retired to get away from work, they often apparently feel lost and unsatisfied as they try to figure out the next thing to do.  That's not an intuitively obvious point, but one that seems to have affected a few early retirees and it's good to think about when planning an early retirement life.

I also think my stress has a negative impact on my relationship. That is why I am taking measures to reduce stress. But I am also sometimes worry about what will happen if we for some reason wouldn't be able to get out of the door often enough during FIRE. This (long) weekend was such a weekend with both of us at home and depressing weather outside. That went well, both doing our own thing most of the time. But I think we should really work hard on finding new friends/acquaintances in FIRE, especially after relocating.

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #170 on: November 14, 2018, 02:29:07 AM »
To me the blog has been stale for quite a while.  I think, if he chooses to do so (and perhaps with her consent, ideally, since they are still co-parents at a minimum, assuming this is all true), this could actually create some different, new material for him.  I'd be interested to read any thoughts he might have on whether he things frugality or his lifestyle played a role, and how people might attempt to mitigate that.  I think that would be wonderful information and would serve the community well.  IF he chooses to share it.  Likewise, posts on the financial affect of divorce--two households, child support and/or alimony, legal fees , etc., would, I think be genuinely useful to people.  But I also think he certainly doesn't owe anyone that, and I understand why he might not want to speak about it at all (or might want to but might respect Ms. Soap Bubble Mustache's--new name seems necessary-- possible desire not to). Either way, whatever, although as I said, I can see this being very valuable information--not just interesting for the voyeuristic, schadenfaude satisfaction of it. 

My only real concern is him shuttering the blog (because he clearly no longer needs the income), with the result being us losing this forum. 

I wish him, her, and their little guy peace and happiness going forward, on whatever paths that may take all of them. 

Maenad

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #171 on: November 14, 2018, 07:38:50 AM »
This is not intended to pick on you, but it is another point of view about artisan soap.

I donít know when it became so popular a few years ago I guess but it became the gift that everyone gives. I participate in very little gift giving and yet bars of the stuff shows up at my house. I donít like it I just donít like it.

I don't see it as picking on me at all! :-) It sounds like it's become a trendy, kind of thoughtless gift, which is understandably annoying when you don't like it. I consider it a good reminder for when/if I share mine with others - the wishes of the recipient always count, even with homemade gifts.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #172 on: November 14, 2018, 07:52:13 AM »
Life is complicated and people can fall out of love any number of reasons. I think the question of whether FIRE was a factor misses the mark. As with any other endeavor one undertakes while married, it is about compatibility and communication.

But how do you know the question of FIRE misses the mark.  I see that you are assuming that compatibility and communication were the cause, but I got the impression that Pete had these areas in spades.  Obviously we are back to speculating, but I get irked when folks just assume that finances (some form of finances, not just simply 'having enough money') had nothing to do with a marriage dissolving...

I'm a red panda

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #173 on: November 14, 2018, 08:04:12 AM »
$7 for a single bar of soap? Interesting choice of business.
Pretty typical of artisan soap.

Yeah, I've dipped my toe into soapmaking, and the special fats and scents and additives used in making frou-frou homemade soap are not cheap. It ain't just a bar of Dial with a handmade wrapper, and barring skin sensitivities, most people don't use it exclusively. It's a fun, consumable gift that lasts for a pretty long time and doesn't cost much per use. It's one of the hobbies I'm looking forward to in retirement, it'll use my chemistry background nicely.

This is not intended to pick on you, but it is another point of view about artisan soap.

I donít know when it became so popular a few years ago I guess but it became the gift that everyone gives. I participate in very little gift giving and yet bars of the stuff shows up at my house. I donít like it I just donít like it. It doesnít seem to lather up. I wish people would stop spending money on it and I wish they would stop giving it to me. I see it as another useless dumb thing of the moment.

Completely off-topic (but wtf): you can change lathering properties (as well as things like "creaminess") by adjusting what fats you're using. If you just make plain soap it's not horribly expensive (although not as cheap as you could buy on sale, with a coupon), and you know every single thing that's in it. You can also control how harsh it is by calculating to add a little extra fat (or a lot). You can choose to add scents and colors and strange ingredients, or not. We use olive oil, coconut oil (for better lathering), lye (mandatory to create the soap molecules) and water, and sometimes add a bit of fragrance (I think we're currently using orange blossom?)  It's a fairly fun and low-key hobby, and seems to be working on everyone's skin around here -- sensitive-skinned husband, acne-prone teenager, and the rest of us too all have clean faces and no crazy breakouts or rashes.

I like to make my own soap so I can avoid palm oil.  It can be cheap, or it can be pricey depending on how into it you get and how much you play with what's it.  Some soaps lather more than others. Lather doesn't necessarily = clean.  I also really like bar shampoo, especially for travel.

But if you reasonably charge for your labor and want to make a profit, you should charge $5-$7 a bar.

Hula Hoop

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #174 on: November 14, 2018, 08:44:19 AM »
Oh I had no idea that soap contains palm oil.  I've almost completely eliminated palm oil from the family diet (no more nutella!) but I didn't realize that soap also contained it.  Off to research.

Re the divorce - I really think this is none of our business and we should let them have their privacy.

letsdoit

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #175 on: November 14, 2018, 08:47:49 AM »
To me the blog has been stale for quite a while.  I think, if he chooses to do so (and perhaps with her consent, ideally, since they are still co-parents at a minimum, assuming this is all true), this could actually create some different, new material for him.  I'd be interested to read any thoughts he might have on whether he things frugality or his lifestyle played a role, and how people might attempt to mitigate that.  I think that would be wonderful information and would serve the community well.  IF he chooses to share it.  Likewise, posts on the financial affect of divorce--two households, child support and/or alimony, legal fees , etc., would, I think be genuinely useful to people.  But I also think he certainly doesn't owe anyone that, and I understand why he might not want to speak about it at all (or might want to but might respect Ms. Soap Bubble Mustache's--new name seems necessary-- possible desire not to). Either way, whatever, although as I said, I can see this being very valuable information--not just interesting for the voyeuristic, schadenfaude satisfaction of it. 

My only real concern is him shuttering the blog (because he clearly no longer needs the income), with the result being us losing this forum. 

I wish him, her, and their little guy peace and happiness going forward, on whatever paths that may take all of them.

I wish he would acknowledge that he deals in allegories .  i.e., that for many it's not so easy to afford a new house and/or move closer to work

obstinate

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #176 on: November 14, 2018, 09:24:03 AM »
I wish he would acknowledge that he deals in allegories .  i.e., that for many it's not so easy to afford a new house and/or move closer to work
1. That's not what an allegory is. An allegory is like a parable or a fable. 2. He has, on a number of occasions, mentioned that his advice does not apply universally.

ixtap

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #177 on: November 14, 2018, 09:33:44 AM »
This is not intended to pick on you, but it is another point of view about artisan soap.

I donít know when it became so popular a few years ago I guess but it became the gift that everyone gives. I participate in very little gift giving and yet bars of the stuff shows up at my house. I donít like it I just donít like it.

I don't see it as picking on me at all! :-) It sounds like it's become a trendy, kind of thoughtless gift, which is understandably annoying when you don't like it. I consider it a good reminder for when/if I share mine with others - the wishes of the recipient always count, even with homemade gifts.

My skin sensitivies are the stuff of family legend, scents are forbidden around most of the family. And yet, when my SIL learns to make stuff, she gives it as presents. It has been 30 years and I am still not sure if she hates me or is just that selfish.

sol

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #178 on: November 14, 2018, 09:36:32 AM »
I wish he would acknowledge that he deals in allegories .  i.e., that for many it's not so easy to afford a new house and/or move closer to work

Why do you think the MMM message is allegorical?  I don't think it is allegorical at all. 

If you're the kind of person who says "I can't do this" then the message clearly hasn't gotten through to you.  That's like an overweight person saying he can't lose weight because he "can't give up McDonalds".  Well, you COULD, you just don't want to.  You have made a list of reasons why McDonalds is super convenient for you, instead of looking at the viable alternatives and then making the hard choices required to implement them.

I'm not sure I can think of a single example of a person who truly can't move closer to work.  You may temporarily find yourself in a situation where it is difficult, but it is never impossible.  You could change your living situation, or you could change your working situation.  Incarcerated felons maybe?  They have no freedom to choose their work or their living situations.  Are you incarcerated?  In a non-temporary way?

The key message of this blog, and every other motivational speaker in the world, is that you have far more power to effect change in your life than you realize.  You are not bound to your current situation.  This part is certainly metaphorical in the sense that the advice about finding ways to improve your commute is equally applicable to finding solutions to other life problems.  You have to first identify the solutions, then figure out how to make the changes that support your desired outcome.  But the commuting advice is still literal.  You shouldn't waste your time driving in circles every day if you can help it.

As for the "afford a new house" portion of your post, I'm not at all sure that's part of the MMM message at all.  Has the blog ever advocated home ownership over renting?  Sometimes, renting is the frugal choice.

I think the key messages of the MMM blog, if I may engage in a moment of meta-analysis, is that the average American lifestyle is pretty sub-optimal in a variety of ways that have straightforward solutions for anyone willing to open their eyes.  We spend too much time driving, harming our health and the environment and reducing our ability to do more important things.  We waste too much money on frivolous and unfulfilling purchases that don't add to our happiness.  We collectively choose the lazy solutions to problems, instead of exerting the personal willpower required to make positive choices. 

All three of these are tied up together in examples like your commute to work, where you can save money and time and improve your local environment and improve your health and happiness by biking to work instead of driving.  It's a hard change to make, for some people.  Especially people who really think McDonald's is super convenient and not that bad for you.  We like easy familiar solutions, particularly when they are constantly reinforced by targeted marketing campaigns designed to get you to spend your money (get poor) in order to be lazy (get unhappy).  It's hard to buck that trend.  That marketing has been so successful that in just a few decades we've transitioned from a world in which everyone walked (or biked or rode) to work for centuries to a world in which everyone drives to work and is fat.  We have literally let cars ruin us, in exchange for lazy high speed transport that destroys the environment.

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #179 on: November 14, 2018, 10:47:22 AM »
soap gifts are not a new thing.  when we got married 10 yrs ago my wife brought along a 10lb bag of fancy pants soap thatwas never used because you're not supposed to use the fancy soap.  i said fuck that (with her approval, i'm not a savage) and let my daughter start using them 5 years into the marriage.  what's the point of having soap you don't use??

the artisan soap thing is just the latest iteration of that long standing trend.

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?

I'm a red panda

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #180 on: November 14, 2018, 11:09:31 AM »

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?

For me, environmental. Orangutans (et al) are important.

Crease

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #181 on: November 14, 2018, 11:12:26 AM »
Life is complicated and people can fall out of love any number of reasons. I think the question of whether FIRE was a factor misses the mark. As with any other endeavor one undertakes while married, it is about compatibility and communication.

But how do you know the question of FIRE misses the mark.  I see that you are assuming that compatibility and communication were the cause, but I got the impression that Pete had these areas in spades.  Obviously we are back to speculating, but I get irked when folks just assume that finances (some form of finances, not just simply 'having enough money') had nothing to do with a marriage dissolving...

I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 11:30:49 AM by Crease »

Goldielocks

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #182 on: November 14, 2018, 11:35:26 AM »
Life is complicated and people can fall out of love any number of reasons. I think the question of whether FIRE was a factor misses the mark. As with any other endeavor one undertakes while married, it is about compatibility and communication.

But how do you know the question of FIRE misses the mark.  I see that you are assuming that compatibility and communication were the cause, but I got the impression that Pete had these areas in spades.  Obviously we are back to speculating, but I get irked when folks just assume that finances (some form of finances, not just simply 'having enough money') had nothing to do with a marriage dissolving...

I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.
I would concur with this.  Also, for me, it is the reviews of so very many couples that are FIRE'd that are not separated / divorced within a few years.  Statistically, FIRE does not increase the divorce rate.  If anything, those marriage challenges seem to arise pre-FIRE when one person decides to pursue a new and unusual life path and the other person is just fine with the original deal (when they married).

Once through that and FIRE'd it seems like a very low break-up rate, but that may just be that any average 10 couples have very low rates over a 5 year period...  the dataset is quite small, after all.

Cassie

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #183 on: November 14, 2018, 12:32:38 PM »
He wonít close the blog. It makes a ton of money and he barely writes anymore so it is truly mostly passive income which is great for them.  If I get gifts such as fancy soaps that I wonít use I donate them to the homeless shelter. They are happy to get things they need on a daily basis. 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #184 on: November 14, 2018, 01:16:39 PM »
Life is complicated and people can fall out of love any number of reasons. I think the question of whether FIRE was a factor misses the mark. As with any other endeavor one undertakes while married, it is about compatibility and communication.

But how do you know the question of FIRE misses the mark.  I see that you are assuming that compatibility and communication were the cause, but I got the impression that Pete had these areas in spades.  Obviously we are back to speculating, but I get irked when folks just assume that finances (some form of finances, not just simply 'having enough money') had nothing to do with a marriage dissolving...

I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.
I would concur with this.  Also, for me, it is the reviews of so very many couples that are FIRE'd that are not separated / divorced within a few years.  Statistically, FIRE does not increase the divorce rate.  If anything, those marriage challenges seem to arise pre-FIRE when one person decides to pursue a new and unusual life path and the other person is just fine with the original deal (when they married).

Once through that and FIRE'd it seems like a very low break-up rate, but that may just be that any average 10 couples have very low rates over a 5 year period...  the dataset is quite small, after all.

That's just it, we are mostly dealing with anecdotes.  There are journals (Unleash Hell, Mr. Orange - that speak to FIRE setting fire to their marriage, and plenty of ER's (not as long in the tooth as MMM) that are doing OK, but maybe stay out of the spotlight more).  Then there are the faux FIREs like Retire by 40 who are just Stay at Home Dads while their wife works.  We really don't have many fully FIRE'd families like MMM, so how do we have any idea what caused the parting of ways?  How can we know for sure that some aspect of 'FIRE at 30' shouldn't be cautioned against?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 01:18:42 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

MasterStache

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #185 on: November 14, 2018, 01:19:50 PM »

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?

For me, environmental. Orangutans (et al) are important.

Same with our family. We straight up refuse to buy any product containing palm oil. It's amazing the number of items (especially food) that contain palm oil.

Telecaster

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #186 on: November 14, 2018, 01:25:58 PM »
I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.

As a SWAG, I'd say those on the quest for FIRE or are FIRE'd would be less likely to get divorced, for the reason that if you are going to be FIRE'd you need to be on the same page financially.   

@Goldielocks I thought the same thing about eating separate meals.  I hesitate to call it an "instinct" but communal eating/sharing food is such a basic human activity (and other primates as well, it should be pointed out) that something just feels missing when we don't do it, and sharing a meal with someone somehow makes the meal more enjoyable.   It is hard to explain, but it just seems to work that way.    Retired people not making the time to sit down and eat together seemed very odd to me.   

PoutineLover

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #187 on: November 14, 2018, 01:38:04 PM »
I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.

As a SWAG, I'd say those on the quest for FIRE or are FIRE'd would be less likely to get divorced, for the reason that if you are going to be FIRE'd you need to be on the same page financially.   

@Goldielocks I thought the same thing about eating separate meals.  I hesitate to call it an "instinct" but communal eating/sharing food is such a basic human activity (and other primates as well, it should be pointed out) that something just feels missing when we don't do it, and sharing a meal with someone somehow makes the meal more enjoyable.   It is hard to explain, but it just seems to work that way.    Retired people not making the time to sit down and eat together seemed very odd to me.   
Yeah, it seems odd to me as well, although if dietary restrictions are involved, then maybe it makes sense. I don't get to have breakfast or lunch with my partner because we work, but on weekends and evenings we always eat together, and making the meal together and sitting down together is a big part of what makes it enjoyable.

ketchup

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #188 on: November 14, 2018, 01:39:42 PM »
soap gifts are not a new thing.  when we got married 10 yrs ago my wife brought along a 10lb bag of fancy pants soap thatwas never used because you're not supposed to use the fancy soap.  i said fuck that (with her approval, i'm not a savage) and let my daughter start using them 5 years into the marriage.  what's the point of having soap you don't use??

the artisan soap thing is just the latest iteration of that long standing trend.

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?
Well before I was born (probably early 80s), but when my dad met my mom's parents for the first time, he was at their house and reached for the soap on the counter.  My apparently mom made a screeching sound like someone was drowning her cats (she doesn't have any cats).  That's not how you do it!  You don't use the fancy soap that sits out!  You reach under the sink, open the cabinet and use the secret soap that lives under there invisibly that's for actual use.

-_-

mushroom

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #189 on: November 14, 2018, 01:43:50 PM »
I feel like FIRE has placed a strain on our marriage for sure. We are both dealing with more anxiety than we were pre-FIRE and are both seeing therapists now. I probably do better with more structure in my life and it's harder to create more structure on my own. We were both professionals before, and losing that work focus has meant that small things about our home life/little annoying traits we both have that used to not bother us as much become magnified because we spend a lot more time at home and with each other. Yet neither of us wants to go back to full-time work, so "just go back to work" doesn't necessarily seem like the right answer either.

Cassie

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #190 on: November 14, 2018, 01:55:02 PM »
Maybe do some consulting or a part time job you would enjoy. Thatís what we do and we are in our early 60Ēs.   Too much togetherness can be a bad thing. We also have separate home offices.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #191 on: November 14, 2018, 01:55:32 PM »
soap gifts are not a new thing.  when we got married 10 yrs ago my wife brought along a 10lb bag of fancy pants soap thatwas never used because you're not supposed to use the fancy soap.  i said fuck that (with her approval, i'm not a savage) and let my daughter start using them 5 years into the marriage.  what's the point of having soap you don't use??

the artisan soap thing is just the latest iteration of that long standing trend.

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?
Well before I was born (probably early 80s), but when my dad met my mom's parents for the first time, he was at their house and reached for the soap on the counter.  My apparently mom made a screeching sound like someone was drowning her cats (she doesn't have any cats).  That's not how you do it!  You don't use the fancy soap that sits out!  You reach under the sink, open the cabinet and use the secret soap that lives under there invisibly that's for actual use.

-_-

Your mom must be my grandmother...

You must always use the secret soap....and don't you dare use the decorative hand towels to dry your hands, use the ratty hand towel under the sink to dry your hands lol

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #192 on: November 14, 2018, 02:57:23 PM »
I'll also add my 2 cents, the quest for FIRE brought my wife and I closer together than ever.  She did not understand 401k's and the importance of saving for retirement, so I supplemented my fiancee so she could get the company match and also start an IRA.  She was head over heels for me by the time we got married :)  We got married a bit later than our peers, but it's been a walk in the park (financially).  I struggled a bit during the 2000 and 2008 markets, but we always had plenty of money.  Bought our first home with 20% down, sold for a profit, and could have bought our second home outright (which we live in currently for the last 10+ years).

At one point, I mentioned that I wasn't happy at work.  We weren't FI, but maybe starting a blog and side hustles would be enough...  That was the first time I saw her really struggle with the idea of limited finances and I was struggling, so our marriage struggled.  We got through it, but it wasn't easy, and I blame the idea of ER.  It was almost poisonous at that time, since I really wanted it and couldn't have it.

Fast forward past 2008 and my wife had totally bought in to me being ER.  We have been riding high ever since and she has entertained all of my earlier notions - world travel, starving artist, Epicurean.  But by now I'm doing well at work and just enjoying life in general.  I don't have as much time for the family as I would like, and once again the fact that I could be ER causes a strain on the marriage.

So yeah, I can see how FIRE can both help and harm a marriage.  It has made my life more interesting, but not necessarily more easy.

letsdoit

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #193 on: November 14, 2018, 03:22:52 PM »
I wish he would acknowledge that he deals in allegories .  i.e., that for many it's not so easy to afford a new house and/or move closer to work

Why do you think the MMM message is allegorical?  I don't think it is allegorical at all. 

If you're the kind of person who says "I can't do this" then the message clearly hasn't gotten through to you.  That's like an overweight person saying he can't lose weight because he "can't give up McDonalds".  Well, you COULD, you just don't want to.  You have made a list of reasons why McDonalds is super convenient for you, instead of looking at the viable alternatives and then making the hard choices required to implement them.

I'm not sure I can think of a single example of a person who truly can't move closer to work.  You may temporarily find yourself in a situation where it is difficult, but it is never impossible.  You could change your living situation, or you could change your working situation.  Incarcerated felons maybe?  They have no freedom to choose their work or their living situations.  Are you incarcerated?  In a non-temporary way?

The key message of this blog, and every other motivational speaker in the world, is that you have far more power to effect change in your life than you realize.  You are not bound to your current situation.  This part is certainly metaphorical in the sense that the advice about finding ways to improve your commute is equally applicable to finding solutions to other life problems.  You have to first identify the solutions, then figure out how to make the changes that support your desired outcome.  But the commuting advice is still literal.  You shouldn't waste your time driving in circles every day if you can help it.

As for the "afford a new house" portion of your post, I'm not at all sure that's part of the MMM message at all.  Has the blog ever advocated home ownership over renting?  Sometimes, renting is the frugal choice.

I think the key messages of the MMM blog, if I may engage in a moment of meta-analysis, is that the average American lifestyle is pretty sub-optimal in a variety of ways that have straightforward solutions for anyone willing to open their eyes.  We spend too much time driving, harming our health and the environment and reducing our ability to do more important things.  We waste too much money on frivolous and unfulfilling purchases that don't add to our happiness.  We collectively choose the lazy solutions to problems, instead of exerting the personal willpower required to make positive choices. 

All three of these are tied up together in examples like your commute to work, where you can save money and time and improve your local environment and improve your health and happiness by biking to work instead of driving.  It's a hard change to make, for some people.  Especially people who really think McDonald's is super convenient and not that bad for you.  We like easy familiar solutions, particularly when they are constantly reinforced by targeted marketing campaigns designed to get you to spend your money (get poor) in order to be lazy (get unhappy).  It's hard to buck that trend.  That marketing has been so successful that in just a few decades we've transitioned from a world in which everyone walked (or biked or rode) to work for centuries to a world in which everyone drives to work and is fat.  We have literally let cars ruin us, in exchange for lazy high speed transport that destroys the environment.
you are right, but i dont know how you jumped to me being addicted to mcdonald's  ; that is lazy reasoning. 
yes, i could move closer to work . it would cost me 18k per year to do so.  i currently choose not to for that reason, but the FI community make me think about doing it
i live 4.5 miles from work, i could ride a bike.  (i rode about 100 miles a week for 3-4 years, so please dont inundate me with the details of how i could do this.) 
before i had kids i commuted by walking or bus.  i loved it.    as it is, i dont have time to take a 5 minute nap, not to mention wait for a bus, adjust brakes, or set up panniers.

Goldielocks

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #194 on: November 14, 2018, 03:39:29 PM »
letsdoit -- I hear you on the bike / time versus kids / family crazy schedules.   I am cycling again now, and it only works well because if I don't feel like taking my bike for an errand, or have enough time to bike to activity A, then go get the milk, the kids things, and then home... -- it is ok not to do that errand today.    When the kids were younger I would have to do things like grab milk and groceries on my 45 minute lunch break just to fit it all into the day.   

Don't worry - there are biking days in your future (after the youngest is 15 or so!)

EnjoyIt

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #195 on: November 15, 2018, 12:07:56 AM »
I guess I'm rejecting the suggestion that FIRE could possibly cause marital problems. There's nothing inherent about FIRE (or any personal finance philosophy) that would increase the risk of marital strife. It's the failure to communicate about it and compromise where compromise is needed that causes the strife. Maybe I'm being a pedant. Or simply misunderstanding the original point of asking whether FIRE was a factor.

As a SWAG, I'd say those on the quest for FIRE or are FIRE'd would be less likely to get divorced, for the reason that if you are going to be FIRE'd you need to be on the same page financially.   

@Goldielocks I thought the same thing about eating separate meals.  I hesitate to call it an "instinct" but communal eating/sharing food is such a basic human activity (and other primates as well, it should be pointed out) that something just feels missing when we don't do it, and sharing a meal with someone somehow makes the meal more enjoyable.   It is hard to explain, but it just seems to work that way.    Retired people not making the time to sit down and eat together seemed very odd to me.

I think it can go both ways regarding FIRE and relationships.  I can imagine it can bring a family closer together since you have more free time with each other doing cool things together. It can pull a family apart since the couple maybe has too much time together and not enough time apart.  Or worse, the unlimited free time one has can get a person into trouble.  Anything can happen to anyone so to speak. 

I have friends who have done a 6 month sailing trip together and were separated by the time they returned. My colleague had a stay at home spouse who ended up cheated on him. I remember reading somewhere here I believe that when their dad retired the mom was so sick of dad being home she took a full time job to get away. My wife and I spent a whole month traveling by car. We were stuck to each other 24/7 and we enjoyed every minute of it. My point being, anything can happen.

Linea_Norway

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #196 on: November 15, 2018, 01:12:11 AM »
soap gifts are not a new thing.  when we got married 10 yrs ago my wife brought along a 10lb bag of fancy pants soap that was never used because you're not supposed to use the fancy soap.  i said fuck that (with her approval, i'm not a savage) and let my daughter start using them 5 years into the marriage.  what's the point of having soap you don't use??

the artisan soap thing is just the latest iteration of that long standing trend.

is the aversion to palm oil just on environmental grounds or is there a health benefit to using none?
Well before I was born (probably early 80s), but when my dad met my mom's parents for the first time, he was at their house and reached for the soap on the counter.  My apparently mom made a screeching sound like someone was drowning her cats (she doesn't have any cats).  That's not how you do it!  You don't use the fancy soap that sits out!  You reach under the sink, open the cabinet and use the secret soap that lives under there invisibly that's for actual use.

-_-

Your mom must be my grandmother...

You must always use the secret soap....and don't you dare use the decorative hand towels to dry your hands, use the ratty hand towel under the sink to dry your hands lol

Guilty as charged. At our cabin, I have 2 candles with nice patterns of wild animals on them, bought on extreme sale of course. I use them purely as something to look at, not to burn them as candles. Although those are the only things in our possession that we don't use as intended.

mushroom

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #197 on: November 15, 2018, 06:35:07 AM »
My wife and I spent a whole month traveling by car. We were stuck to each other 24/7 and we enjoyed every minute of it.

My husband and I have been together 24/7 during a year-long backpacking round-the-world trip, extended road trip for months while camping, etc. and our relationship was fine. It's been way more of a strain for us to be living in one place.

lhamo

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #198 on: November 15, 2018, 01:31:20 PM »
Maybe I should do a blog ;-).

Yes, please!  Glad to see you posting.  Was worried with the fires (real smokey ones) and all...

Blueberries

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Re: MMM is now divorced from Mrs. MM?
« Reply #199 on: November 15, 2018, 02:03:31 PM »
you are right, but i dont know how you jumped to me being addicted to mcdonald's  ; that is lazy reasoning. 
yes, i could move closer to work . it would cost me 18k per year to do so.  i currently choose not to for that reason, but the FI community make me think about doing it
i live 4.5 miles from work, i could ride a bike.  (i rode about 100 miles a week for 3-4 years, so please dont inundate me with the details of how i could do this.) 
before i had kids i commuted by walking or bus.  i loved it.    as it is, i dont have time to take a 5 minute nap, not to mention wait for a bus, adjust brakes, or set up panniers.

Exactly! Sure, most people can move, but does it make it a wise, responsible choice?  Not always.  Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.