But at least he didn't call his accusers fat ugly liars, like Donald Trump routinely does.
This, I think, is the most frightening commentary in this whole thread. I refuse to let my own personal standards for another person's behavior sink so low that I praise them for not behaving like Donald Trump.
I thought it was clear that my comparison was meant as an indictment of Trump, not an apology for Louis CK. If it wasn't, please let this clarify it.
I completely understand what you're saying here but I wholeheartedly disagree. It is not reasonable to expect the world to suddenly act with forgiveness
I'm not asking anyone to forgive, I'm asking everyone to stay focused on the end goal here. The end goal is to stop this kind of behavior, both in this one individual and in society at large, and the way to do that is NOT to criticize people who are moving in the right direction. Do not dismiss their inadequate efforts as fraudulent, do not denigrate their attempts at reform, do not question the honesty of their admissions. Doing so, as maizeman pointed out, only encourages other men to take the path of Roy Moore and Donald Trump, and that sets us all back.
I understand it is natural to feel a seething anger in these situations. We all want to lash out, and punish Louis CK for being a dirtbag. But I think that response is self serving, one we are drawn to because it feels good and satisfies our basic urges, and not because it actually addresses the problem or promotes the solutions to that problem. Sometimes, we have to do unpleasant things to advance our longer range goals. Working with serial abusers to help them become better people, instead of just trashing them, is part of that hard work.
I've seen the same story unfold (online) with pedophiles. Some people are just abnormally broken, and are only sexually aroused by children. The natural reaction is to burn them at the stake, but that doesn't really help anything. It's just revenge, and revenge is an animal instinct. There will always be new people who are abnormally broken, and killing every pedo doesn't stop pedophilia. Instead, I think it's better to help these folks understand why their situation isn't normal or acceptable, and find alternative outlets, and use their experiences to help identify other potential pedophiles. Build a support network. Infiltrate the subculture. Try to understand the causes of the problem, impose supervision and oversight, offer mitigation techniques, and establish avenues for responding to breaches. Work on solving the problem for the future.
If every abuser who gets caught is instantly put to death, we only encourage them to hide. We teach them to deny, to evade, to attack their accusers. This is not progress.
in expecting people to now offer guidance to an abuser/harasser/assaulter, we dismiss the probably very raw and/or traumatizing emotions of the people involved.
I don't think we dismiss the victims at all. Quite the contrary, killing the abusers and moving on doesn't help the victims at all. We honor and respect their trauma by taking it seriously, and offering solutions for both their personal situations and (and this is the important part) for all future victims, too. Don't pretend you're helping by making a big deal about the victim if you're not going to address what created the victimization in the first place.
it is absolutely not then the responsibility of the abused/harassed/assaulted to show them the path to redemption. That is another way to deflect responsibility off the accused.
I'm not asking the accusers to do anything. I'm asking everyone else to think constructively about how we move forward. What helps here? And I don't think you're helping if you trash Louis CK for trying to own his mistakes, and yet gives a free pass to people like Donald Trump who deny deny deny. Yes, Louis CK's apology was far from perfect. But we don't solve anything by just calling him a putz and ending his career, while the pussy grabber still gets to run our entire fucking country.
I hope we are able to avoid making a habit of comparing one person's actions to another person's actions by way of defending their character.
I'm definitely not defending Louis CK. I'm advocating that we recognize what he did right in addition to what he did wrong, as a means of encouraging people to do more of the former and less of the latter.
Let's say my friend's past four boyfriends physically abused her. Let's say that now she's dating a person that verbally abuses her. I will not shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, at least he isn't hitting her." I don't think this new person is an upgrade
We're not talking about a string of people, we're talking about one person. If a man is physically abusive and goes to jail and does his counseling and comes out the far side verbally abusive instead of physically abusive, he still needs treatment but he HAS improved. He's still a shithead, sure, but society is better off for his efforts to be less shitty, and society will be even better off if we can keep him moving in the right direction. Maybe he needs another incarceration and more treatment. What he definitely does not need is everyone telling him that he's a piece of shit and no better than if he had just kept hitting her, because that only encourages him and all other abusers who see his situation to be physically abusive instead of just verbally abusive.
And that's where we're currently at with Louis CK. Dude took the first step in the right direction, and now the feminist left is piling on him telling him what a piece of shit he is. No one seems to recognize that his attempt at an apology was a major breakthrough for a creepshow like that, a first baby step in the right direction. You don't take someone like that, who appears to be making a genuine effort to reform, and tell him he shouldn't bother. Not if you're serious about solving this problem for everyone.
I understand the impulse, I just don't think it's helpful. Don't wallow in your outrage, because you're not the victim here. Instead, figure out what the most constructive response would be, what can you do here to advance your real agenda instead of just make yourself feel better.