Author Topic: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture  (Read 11001 times)

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2016, 05:29:19 PM »
He pretty much admitted to wanting to convert by stating he couldn't work in a monastery with his agenda . .

I see I got modded down so I guess it isn't polite to be trying to convince others to stay away from foreign countries with "help" in one hand and "oh look what's this a gospel!" in another. Have at it folks!

Lol, commentator says it would be wrong to go somewhere with an agenda that may be unwelcome, by going to a thread with an agenda that would be unwelcome.

Not sure why you would say that when the OP asked for comments, hence I was invited. I doubt the people from where the OP will be travelling to are flooding her with invites to come convert them.

Anatidae V

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7626
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Fourecks
  • Nullus Anxietas
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2016, 06:39:09 PM »
He pretty much admitted to wanting to convert by stating he couldn't work in a monastery with his agenda . .

I see I got modded down so I guess it isn't polite to be trying to convince others to stay away from foreign countries with "help" in one hand and "oh look what's this a gospel!" in another. Have at it folks!

Lol, commentator says it would be wrong to go somewhere with an agenda that may be unwelcome, by going to a thread with an agenda that would be unwelcome.

Not sure why you would say that when the OP asked for comments, hence I was invited. I doubt the people from where the OP will be travelling to are flooding her with invites to come convert them.
You re absolutely correct, the OP asked for comment. However, the OP asked for a specific kind of comment - information on what missionary opportunities and groups they might be able to participate in, within the OP's particular religion. Your comments were somewhat off topic, as they were not about different organisations, but about whether this was an ethical activity. You're welcome to create a new thread and discuss the ethics of missionary work in modern times, it would be very interesting!

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2016, 07:19:06 PM »
People keep quoting me and addressing my comments so I'll keep pointing out their errors. Let's see what the OP said, quoting part of their post here and underlined key points:

The question is...where would we go? What would we do? We don't have a clear vision or calling for this. Considering our ability to live extremely simply, financial independence should be ours in as little as 5 years (but maybe more like 10).

I have been a secondary ed English teacher for my entire professional life, and love teaching very, very much. As a clinical social worker, my husband has a lot of flexibility and versatility in the jobs he is qualified for, as well (he's actually done several things over the years, all of which seem like they could easily translate to missionary work. Right now he works with homeless vets to get them housing and services.)

One option we consider is that maybe our home is our mission--our lack of vision for missionary work when we pray about this sometimes seems to indicate that our strength is in giving and in our professional vocations,
and that we should earn as much as we can and over time give more and more to missionaries who are serving abroad. We already support a few, but it would be a neat goal to perhaps fully support a family at some point.

The thought of living, serving, and sharing the Gospel abroad has filled me with joy for many years, however. My husband feels convicted about it as well.

Thoughts?

Gave my thoughts that they stay at home or try to learn more about another faith abroad and still help without spreading the gospel. I've said this three times now, not sure how it can be misinterpreted. If you mean my comments about help in one hand and the gospel in the other, well that's just fact not a discussion of ethics.

Sailor Sam

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5731
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2016, 07:43:03 PM »
human, I understand the root of your frustration. Like you, I find the idea of one group traveling to other nations, insisting they've found the One True Path, pretty upsetting. So, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I wonder what your goal is by continuing to post? There's no chance your going to convince the larger majority in this thread that missions are bad. You just aren't. You could could derail the thread into another slog through the ethics of religion, but would that really make you feel better? 

You laid out your theory. It might just be time to walk away.

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2016, 07:45:52 PM »
human, I understand the root of your frustration. Like you, I find the idea of one group traveling to other nations, insisting they've found the One True Path, pretty upsetting. So, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I wonder what your goal is by continuing to post? There's no chance your going to convince the larger majority in this thread that missions are bad. You just aren't. You could could derail the thread into another slog through the ethics of religion, but would that really make you feel better? 

You laid out your theory. It might just be time to walk away.

I did walk away and they kept addressing my comments. If you are in a group and are told to leave and you do, then they approach you and begin talking to you again is responding wrong?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 07:48:09 PM by human »

englishteacheralex

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3890
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2016, 07:51:46 PM »
My faith story: I was raised in an atheist family in New York. My family was and continues to be very scornful of religion in general, and Christianity in particular. Personally, I always had a more tolerant understanding of religion than the rest of my family, but was still fairly dismissive of anyone who took faith in God seriously.

In my mid twenties, while living in Hawaii (a place with an enormous Buddhist tradition, but also a lot of historical Christian missionary influence, some of a dubious nature) I became more and more interested in religion, and undertook to study it carefully and extensively. I read quite a bit about Judaism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity. I actually audited an Eastern Philosophy class at the local university here, and went to Buddhist temples in my area (as well as churches and a synagogue). At the end it was clear to me that the Bible, hands down, was Truth. After a secular upbringing, a post-graduate degree at a secular institution, and a lifetime of secular humanist indoctrination, this came as a bit of a shock, to say the least.

My family was and continues to be scandalized by my conversion. They are definitely in the camp of God/Jesus is a fairy tale, no thinking person would believe such nonsense, it's caused the world terrible problems, missionaries are evil people who have ruined countless cultures over the centuries. My mom wouldn't speak to me for two years after I told her I had been baptized. It's ok--there really is quite a lot of awful stuff that has happened in the name of Jesus, and I can understand that if a person has never had any other perspective than that, it would be a devastating thing for one's daughter to join in with such an ideology.

All that to say...I understand where people are coming from who think it's kind of a BS thing to be a missionary.

Obviously I don't agree. I do believe that Jesus was the son of God and that He was murdered and resurrected, and that He really said the things in the New Testament. And one of the things He said was to go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

This is a very compelling thing to me. I've also done a lot of research into missionary work, mistakes that have been made over the years, and how it can be done ethically. I realize there are some who would say that it cannot be done ethically. I respectfully disagree.

How my husband and I can go about obeying Jesus' Great Commission is a matter of prayer and reflection. I appreciate those who have offered some counsel/ideas. We do have two very small children to think about, but those children won't be tiny forever. We will continue to seek God's will in our lives. One thing that seems clear from the many thoughtful responses offered here is that there are many ways to skin a cat for this sort of thing, and I appreciate the encouragement to "think outside the box" and also not jump into a radically different lifestyle half cocked.


hoping2retire35

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
  • Location: UPCOUNTRY CAROLINA
  • just want to see where this appears
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2016, 08:04:50 PM »
Human, perhaps Some of you are not aware what a missionary does or have been misinformed/ misunderstand it. in general it varies widely but from what the op wrote I believe it is safeto assume the they plan to go overseas to an under served area( by their particular skills) gain some type of employment or house and board( probably substandard by westerners). They will make friends with many of those they interact with and as time passes they will share their ideas and interest someof which will be religious. They don't simply plan to havea fun trip and new adventures; spreading the gospel Is their religion.

 (assuming you are American ) and you have a similar experience with some as I described above except they too are American You would probably, as most others, shut them down very quickly. If you heardthis from someone from another culture you may be more open; hence miasionaries. You have probably had similar experiences before in college, HS, and MS. Most of us are not en to discussing religion with one another.

 Honestly, from the negativity in the above posts is why I will not discuss religious matters on this site. Pretty sure there are a lot of others. Think about that, this space( the forum) has less expression and discussion of ideas and knowledge because Of similar disdainful comments.

Edit:no longer addressing individuals
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 08:10:18 PM by hoping2retire35 »

Sailor Sam

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5731
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2016, 08:14:48 PM »
The thing that troubles me is the zero-sum game that's implicit in theory of missionary* work. The true end goal is to stamp out all other religions, which smacks of arrogance, and leaves me cold.

Can you describe how missionary work could be done ethically? To me the only way to 'be ethical' would be to volunteer in stricken area, but not witness unless someone specifically wanted to discuss theology with you. I feel the same way about the MMM dogma, and the threads about converting SO's makes me cringe. But I admit I'm just one person, and I can't see all perspectives. I'd be interested in hearing your thought process. We probably won't come to an agreement, but that doesn't mean we can't have a discussion.


* I initially typed mercenary. Freudian slip, anyone? ;)

katsiki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
  • Age: 43
  • Location: La.
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2016, 08:18:40 PM »
The thing that troubles me is the zero-sum game that's implicit in theory of missionary* work. The true end goal is to stamp out all other religions, which smacks of arrogance, and leaves me cold.


Have you seen this?  I am just curious.  This is not my experience with missionaries at all.  Many go and do good work.  It may or may not involve anything more about religion at all.  ie help in Haiti, medical care in various place, etc.

Sailor Sam

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5731
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2016, 08:34:11 PM »
The thing that troubles me is the zero-sum game that's implicit in theory of missionary* work. The true end goal is to stamp out all other religions, which smacks of arrogance, and leaves me cold.


Have you seen this?  I am just curious.  This is not my experience with missionaries at all.  Many go and do good work.  It may or may not involve anything more about religion at all.  ie help in Haiti, medical care in various place, etc.


No, I'm thinking strictly on the theoretical level. Alex said one of her believes is in the concept that Christians are called to "...go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." If you carry that to the extreme logical end, then everyone would be Christian, and many traditions would have been lost. That part troubles me.

I don't actually think that will happen. I think most missionaries are motivated by a sincere desire to do good throughout the world. But, a thread of troubling superiority and colonialism seems to be implicit in the form of missionary work Alex describes. I'm interested in talking about that, and how that specific sort of missionistic theory can ethically be undertaken. I don't know much about it, and it's entirely possible she's got a whole working theory I never would have discovered on my own.

southern granny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2016, 08:57:56 PM »
I truly believe that missionary work, like preaching, is a calling.   You are doing the right thing by praying and waiting and preparing.  When God is ready to use you, you will know.   And like you said, maybe you are supposed to only contribute financially toward the mission work of others.  That is still important work.  God bless you.

englishteacheralex

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3890
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2016, 09:11:46 PM »
These are pretty big questions, and some of the answers that Jesus Himself said aren't terribly popular.

Yes, I think Jesus is Truth, and I think all other religions may have aspects of Truth, but are not The Truth. I do not have a relativist understanding of the situation when it goes down to brass tacks. So that's always going to be a huge sticking point, and it's always going to seem arrogant. A lot of people can't get beyond that.

I also believe that humans were given free will to make their own choice of what to believe in. And I don't believe in forcing anyone to believe...indeed, I don't think it's really possible. I certainly wasn't forced, and I appreciate that a lot.

Ethical missionary work involves a mindset that stresses serving others in a way that consistently places the missionary beneath those they are serving, not as people who are poorer or lesser or in some way beneath the missionary. This means learning the culture of the people group being served, respecting it, understanding one's outsider status and not seeking to change that inappropriately, and truly seeking to know and love the people group while communicating the love that God has expressed for all people through Jesus Christ. There is an emphasis on building relationships over time in a non-confrontational, non-judgmental way.

This is largely how my husband and I interact with the world, including my own family, who vehemently disagrees with my beliefs. They are aware of my faith, but most of the time when I talk to them I inquire about their well-being and seek to serve them, rather than convert them (which isn't going to happen, anyway!).

I can't say that I agree with the approach of JUST serving others while never also explaining my own beliefs. That would be much easier and a lot more popular, but my original premise is that I DO believe that Jesus is The Truth, and that other religions are false. I don't see religion as a cell-phone plan sort of thing, where you pick the one that works best for you. I actually think it is a matter of truth. So I can't really get away with not explaining that. But there are ways of communicating truth that are not coercive.

Anyway, I've been given a lot to think about as far as this goes, and also had to ask myself some hard questions about why I really find the idea of long term missionary work abroad so appealing (it's a very romantic notion, and like all romantic notions should be subject to intense scrutiny!). I've made a few phone calls to real people over the last few days!

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Looking for missionary ideas: Christian family thinking about the big picture
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2016, 09:40:57 PM »
Anyway, I've been given a lot to think about as far as this goes

MOD NOTE: Given that I think the OP's questions have been answered, I'm locking this thread.

Please don't take this as an attempt to stifle the discussion around Missionary work--I'd welcome someone starting a new Off Topic thread about it (and please link to this thread in the opening post of that one, if you do, and I'll come back and edit this post to include a link to that followup thread).

I just don't think it's fair to have told people they can't participate in this thread discussing Missionary work in general, as it's off topic for what the OP was asking, then have others continue to discuss it anyways.

Rather than issuing a bunch of bans to people who clearly want to talk about it, which would be silly, it seems that--given that the OP has their original questions answered--locking this thread, and allowing a new one about that topic, where everyone can participate, seems like the best solution to me.

Of course, in any new thread, keep in mind our forum rules and be respectful of each other.

If you have any concerns about this, please PM me, or another mod.

Cheers!
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.