Letting a friend go. I

[OtherJen]

 

What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard.  This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman.  Of feminism.  Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend.  Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another. 

Maybe I'm not seeing something.  Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby.  Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better.  In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost.  But she asked and she called him a friend.  So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends.  Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth.  Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself. 

Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.

Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?

Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."

The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know. 

What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill.  The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention.  If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them.  Hopefully he will take her advice.  Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations.  And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him  for good for her own well being.

What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out.  Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.

At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.

[OtherJen]

@Cassie , if you haven't read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker, you may find it useful. One of the main themes is "trust your instincts."

[EricL]

 

What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard.  This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman.  Of feminism.  Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend.  Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another. 

Maybe I'm not seeing something.  Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby.  Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better.  In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost.  But she asked and she called him a friend.  So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends.  Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth.  Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself. 

Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.

Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?

Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."

The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know. 

What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill.  The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention.  If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them.  Hopefully he will take her advice.  Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations.  And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him  for good for her own well being.

What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out.  Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.

At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.

Cassie is going to do what she must do.  I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it.  Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb.  I only said what I would do if it was my friend.  As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill. 

I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her.  I ask that other posters stop attacking me. 

[ender]

The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know. 

Where did she ask? This was posted in "off topic" not "ask a mustachian" and if you read her posts here, not a single one was really asking anything.

[RetiredAt63]

Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.

When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad? 

[Kris]

 

What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard.  This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman.  Of feminism.  Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend.  Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another. 

Maybe I'm not seeing something.  Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby.  Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better.  In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost.  But she asked and she called him a friend.  So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends.  Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth.  Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself. 

Oh please. It's not a double standard in the slightest bit that someone should not choose to put themselves in unsafe situations.

Let me put it this way. A friend of yours for 10 years shows up at your house with a gun a threatens your family and tells you that they want to murder your entire family. Do you invite them over in a week for coffee and tell them they need help? Do you continue that relationship if that friend continues to talk about wanting to kill your family?

Casie has literally worked in the field of human services and she herself (who knows a ton more context than you as an internet warrior do) said this is not a safe situation. I can't believe you have the gall to imply that her and others prioritizing actual her safety somehow makes women "small, frail, emotional creatures."

The OP asked, so I assumed she didn't know. 

What I wrote: This person may be physically and/or mentally ill.  The OP, as a friend, should gently point out to him that he's acting out of character and recommend he seek medical attention.  If necessary in controlled circumstances safe for the both of them.  Hopefully he will take her advice.  Even if he does, she should step back and let that treatment take its course before resuming social relations.  And if he refuses to she should distance herself from him  for good for her own well being.

What people think I wrote (and I honestly don't know why): The OP should confront the friend alone while he's cleaning his shotgun and forcefully accuse him of being a jerk and tell him he should see a shrink because he's obviously crazy and freaks her out.  Then she should sweeten the deal by handing him a check for her life's savings to pay for whatever medical treatment he needs and offer to marry him and take care of him like a baby.

At best, Cassie could communicate this via email, very gently and with no mention of law enforcement (due to risk of escalation). My recent personal experience suggests that the fixation she's described is actually worsened by face-to-face interaction. My own friend-turned-stalker was always far worse after an in-person interaction. But Cassie's friend threw a knife and made her feel unsafe in her own home. I'm not going to call her a bad friend for deciding that she's afraid for her safety and isn't up to going another round with him. And honestly, I'd rather be called a bad friend by a relative stranger on an internet board than ignore my instincts and end up regretting it.

Cassie is going to do what she must do.  I hold no judgement for whatever she ultimately does based on the context of the situation as she sees it.  Some friends are worth jumping on a grenade for; some could use a helpful email; others kicked to the curb.  I only said what I would do if it was my friend.  As pointed out, I'm a man, so I don't have any Florence Nightingale gender roles to fulfill. 

I do resent having my advice mischaracterized and creatively misinterpreted as she "must" confront him or "must" fix him or that I'm somehow attacking her.  I ask that other posters stop attacking me.

EricL: Are you worth being friends with?

Also EricL: I hold no judgment.

[EricL]

Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.

When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?

Incredibly, I did.  And I was small for my age.  Make of that what you wish.

Edit: @Kris I am. 

[RetiredAt63]

Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.

When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?

Incredibly, I did.  And I was small for my age.  Make of that what you wish.

Edit: @Kris I am.

And what did the bully do?

[Villanelle]

I think if you're truly a friend you should communicate that his behavior frightened you, seemed wildly out of character, and you're worried he needs medical attention or at least therapy.  If he can't understand that and won't get himself examined, you definitely need to look out for #1 and ghost.  Even if he's got some medical/psychological issue, a break in the relationship is necessary for it to be corrected.

Someone else's utterly inappropriate, aggressive behavior does not create an obligation for me to do something that might put me in more danger. 

If the OP wants to communicate with him, that's dandy.  But if she feels fearful about doing so, he's the one who broke the social contract with his behavior.  If he did that because he's ill, that's unfortunate.  But it doesn't change the fact that she could very well be increasing the danger to herself by addressing the situation with him.

You are correct. You don’t have an obligation to do shit and neither should the OP - if the person is not a friend.  I’m happy to tell random strangers who are rude and aggressive to fuck off or ghost on them or even kick their ass if I have to.  But I make special allowances for friends. If I’m so threatened by a friend I’ll make have someone back me up when I gently mention that, as a friend, I’m concerned about their mental health.  It might save their life.  Hell, it might save other people’s lives.

I suppose you’re not obligated to do that for a friend either.  But that leads to the question: Are you worth being friends with?

Eric, you are a man.  This former friend is a man.  Cassie is a woman, which means she is physically more vulnerable to this former friend.  Please notice that all the posters pointing out the dangers and suggesting ghosting him are women.  Maybe we are seeing things in this situation that you are not?  As in, he is a potential danger to her?  And he broke the social contract first.

What I'm seeing is you putting out a double standard.  This is the era of the strong, independent, smart woman.  Of feminism.  Except when it comes to being an adult and being a friend.  Then women are small, frail, emotional creatures that need to be put on a pedestal one moment, protected another. 

Maybe I'm not seeing something.  Maybe he collects hockey masks and machetes for a hobby.  Or that he's not really a friend but an acquaintance she calls a friend because she likes his dog better.  In either case it's just not worth it to stick around and she should just ghost.  But she asked and she called him a friend.  So I fell back on what I'd do for a friend not as a man but as an adult and as a person who values friends.  Again, there are ways to do this without the OP sticking her head in the lion's mouth.  Nor is she obligated to "cure" him or, as I pointed out, even hang around while he cures himself.

It's not putting women out as frail and weak to say, "you don't own risking your safety to anyone who has behaved wildly inappropriate.  You don't have to be the nice girl if you feel there is risk in doing so."

That's a risk of empowerment.  For me, where the male/female dynamic comes in to place is that some men do feel entitled to a woman's attentions and will absolutley snap whtn they don't get it.  As such, it's something from which women need to protect themselves.

This guy is not her friend.  He stopped being her friend WHEN THE THREW A KNIFE! 

You are throwing out these glib comments about not confronting him while he's holding a weapon.  The entire point is that if he doesn't take it well, he can find her at any time.  It's not as though he disappears from existence so as long as she is safe when she addresses him, so he could never be a threat to her again.

Are you aware of some of the interesting research on restraining orders?  (No, I'm not going to go dig it up, even though yes, I am citing it.)  Many experts actually recommend NOT getting a restraining order because once someone has snapped to the point of violence, it's not especially likely that the threat of an additional charge of violating an order of protection is going to be a deterrent.  But the act of receiving a restrainign order can absolutely enrage them and make things worse.

Addressing his behave is, in some ways, comparable to getting a restraining order.  Sure, it could make a rational person say, "Oh shit, I really have been behaving badly and need to stop".  Or if could make someone who is already unstable feel humiliated, insulted, and rejected.  Not a good combo.  Even if he's not clutching a chain saw at the moment of the conversation. 

[marble_faun]

Cassie has been trying to be nice by inviting this guy over for years, even though no one else in the social circle likes him much, and Cassie's husband finds him annoying. 

Her kindness has been repaid by him inappropriately hitting on her -- and now, aggressive outbursts.

At this point she should trust her gut about this guy.  He seems to be harboring frustration (especially about women), and he is prone to snapping. Why poke the bear?

[EricL]

Eric, he knows where she lives, he most likely knows when her husband would not be home and he could get her alone.
Even if he took an intervention well at the time, he could think about it and be mad as hell a few days later and do something.

When you were a little kid, say in grade 2, and there were some big bullies in grade 5, did you go up to them and tell them being a bully is bad?

Incredibly, I did.  And I was small for my age.  Make of that what you wish.

Edit: @Kris I am.

And what did the bully do?

Bullies plural. In different schools in different years. It want as badly as you expect to hear.  The worst was breaking the arm.  It was a fluke and shouldn’t have happened in a grade school fight.  Fortunately the bully recovered.  I like to think he’s a better person for it.  But I was mortified at the time.

[partgypsy]

Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.

I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there).  I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.

[pachnik]

Yes, like Partgypsy says it is a balancing thing.   Cassie's needs to be safe first of all. 

[EricL]

Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.

I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there).  I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.

Jesus.  I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken.  (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.)  Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him.  I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health.  Under controlled circumstances if necessary.  "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends.  And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice.  I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend. 

I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here. 

[jrhampt]

Yes, in my experience a man who is not respecting your boundaries does not get the message unless you go full scorched earth and cut off all contact.  It only gets worse if you try to reason with them.  In retrospect, I would always have listened to my gut sooner and not tried to give them a chance at behaving like a rational being.  It doesn’t work.

[Cassie]

I read the Gift of Fear 25 years ago and it was excellent.  Eric mentioned intervening with friends but we have no mutual friends.  It’s not my job to fix him and in the past if I thought a friend needed help and suggested it never went well.   In 2 months my husband will be out of town for 3 weeks and I will be alone.  I am not going to do anything to further inflame this situation.  I care deeply about my friends but sometimes go over and above for people I feel sorry for or know that they are lonely. This time I am just looking out for myself.

[Metalcat]

Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.

I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there).  I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.

Jesus.  I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken.  (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.)  Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him.  I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health.  Under controlled circumstances if necessary.  "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends.  And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice.  I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend. 

I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here.

I've been reading along and thought I would offer some insight for you.

You've said a lot of things that are upsetting to women who have experienced male violence.
You can either accept that and try to understand it, or you can continue to dig your heels in.

Contrary to what you think, you are not being misunderstood, but you are indeed misunderstanding the affect your words are having.

I'm not mad at you, or trying to attack you, or even a remotely sensitive person, but your words have been uncomfortable to read, as someone who has experienced male violence.

[Metalcat]

I read the Gift of Fear 25 years ago and it was excellent.  Eric mentioned intervening with friends but we have no mutual friends.  It’s not my job to fix him and in the past if I thought a friend needed help and suggested it never went well.   In 2 months my husband will be out of town for 3 weeks and I will be alone.  I am not going to do anything to further inflame this situation.  I care deeply about my friends but sometimes go over and above for people I feel sorry for or know that they are lonely. This time I am just looking out for myself.

Trust your instincts, I can't emphasize that enough.

If you feel ghosting will be the least triggering, then do that. If you feel a firm email is best, do that. Do whatever you feel will make you safest, but do not hesitate to let the police know NOW about what happened. You don't have to press charges, but just make them aware.

There's a man in my apartment building who recently said something in French to me in the elevator that was disturbing. I pretended I didn't speak French and he started repeating himself in English and then said "you know what, nevermind".

I immediately alerted the super and called the police officer that I dealt with for a stalker. It's not so much to do anything about it as to make sure that if it's happening to others that the police can quickly see a pattern.

Again, trust your instincts.

[Cassie]

Thanks M. I think ghosting is safest at this point.

[Metalcat]

Thanks M. I think ghosting is safest at this point.

It usually is.
The ones who escalate in response to ghosting will usually escalate no matter what you do. 

Contact is best when you know you have no option to avoid them, as it can help prevent the initial conflict being in person, which is almost always worse.

[Cassie]

I will never run into him as the town is big and the events we go to he doesn’t.  We have never run into him anywhere.

[Metalcat]

I will never run into him as the town is big and the events we go to he doesn’t.  We have never run into him anywhere.

Ghosting it is then.

Any way someone can stay with you while DH is away?

[Villanelle]

Well, I don't think Cassie wants to break her former friend's arm. Or vice versa.

I do understand what you are saying. That for his own mental health, someone needs to give him a reality check. I disagree that it should be Cassie, because he does not seem to respect her based on his behavior (hitting on her despite her being married, throwing a knife, telling her to leave the room, getting drunk and saying he's sleeping there).  I don't think he would receive it well nor "get" anything from it. I agree ghosting does not convey the same message as, "I'm worried about you this is not normal behavior." It's about balancing what is best for the friend/former friend, and what is best/safe for Cassie.

Jesus.  I'm NOT saying anyone's arm needs to be broken.  (Hell, I didn't even intend to break that kid's arm back in 5th grade.)  Nor am I saying she has to play some weird Florence Nightingale gender role and "save" him.  I am saying that if he's a friend (and apparently he's really not) it's a friendly thing to ask him about his mental health.  Under controlled circumstances if necessary.  "Controlled circumstances", since I have to spell it out, include asking by email, snail mail, text message, phone call, via a larger and more imposing friend, or group confrontation with multiple friends.  And also to take a big step away while he fixes himself if he's smart enough to take the advice.  I think it's the bare minimum of what you'd do for a friend. 

I feel I'm getting a lot more crap than angry creepy stalky knife throwing guy here.

As I've brought up several times, how do you control circumstances beyond the initial conversation?  You think that someone who is inspired to commit violence doesn't have the patience to wait a few hours or a couple days?  It's exceptionally patronizing to simply suggest that she not confront him when he's "holding a chainsaw", as though he couldn't come to her house that evening or the next day?  That's the concern and the thing against which it is almost impossible to meaningfully guard one's self. "In case I need to spell it out".   

[Cassie]

No one is going to stay 3 weeks. I had a big protective dog but he died. I do have 2 little yappers . I may get a security system.

[G-dog]

@EricL  please take this in the gentlest way possible but what you are doing here is really common in male/female dynamics. Women are expected to extend endless sympathy and care even in situations where it puts them in danger, if they are hurt as a result then they should have cut things off earlier, and when the slightest hint of a boundary is suggested or defended then the hyperbole comes out. "Are you worth being friends with" "don't approach him while he's using a chain saw" "scrape him off her boot"

You can flounce off if you like, but it's not something that is new to any woman. Not the sitch with the friend or what you are doing here.

This is so spot on. I am standing and applauding !

[RetiredAt63]

I am in the middle of reading Invisible Women: Data bias in a world designed for men.  I recommend Eric read it.  Anyone, really, but especially the demographic the world is basically designed for - white men, and more specifically young white men.  They are the ones data is collected on, they are the ones the world is designed for.  And basically they do not notice it, any more than a fish notices water.

[G-dog]

No one is going to stay 3 weeks. I had a big protective dog but he died. I do have 2 little yappers . I may get a security system.

Maybe one with an audible alarm (louder than the dogs).  Also some video surveillance (digital, hooks to computer, motion activated).  Also good security lights.  Do contact the police for extra patrols as well.  It doesn’t have to be the same person staying each night, do you have a neighbor or 2 that you trust that you could alert if he shows up.

 would it help to check in to this forum (not necessarily this thread) or a contact person (DM) here every day?  I’d feel better knowing you are OK.

[Candace]

@EricL  please take this in the gentlest way possible but what you are doing here is really common in male/female dynamics. Women are expected to extend endless sympathy and care even in situations where it puts them in danger, if they are hurt as a result then they should have cut things off earlier, and when the slightest hint of a boundary is suggested or defended then the hyperbole comes out. "Are you worth being friends with" "don't approach him while he's using a chain saw" "scrape him off her boot"

You can flounce off if you like, but it's not something that is new to any woman. Not the sitch with the friend or what you are doing here.

This is so spot on. I am standing and applauding !

Yes. I've been in this dynamic multiple times. It floored me how much certain people expected me to put up with in order to "be nice" when there was more than a hint of physical danger.

[mspym]

It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.

[Cassie]

G dog,  I appreciate the support.  I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me. 

[mspym]

G dog,  I appreciate the support.  I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.

That is so good to hear. And wee yappy dogs are an excellent alarm system.

[G-dog]

G dog,  I appreciate the support.  I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.

That is so good to hear. And wee yappy dogs are an excellent alarm system.

They are!  “Look, a leaf! / squirrel / another dog / bird / cat / not sure but just in case / bad guy / good guy / kid / bicycle/ ......”

I’ve found with strangers that those that are up to no good are still often put off by even a small happy dog.  Though this guy knows the dogs, which changes everything.

I’m glad your friend will check on you.  Also please put her on speed dial and call if he shows up at your place (or call 911 or non-emergency police line).

Most likely nothing will happen, but it helps to plan for the “just in case” scenarios.

[Cassie]

He knows my husband is going to the graduation but has no clue when he’s going. He’s flying so his car will be here.  They bark at everyone that comes in including us. They are dumb dumbs:)).  They are only 5 lbs.  The support on this forum is awesome.  I think men in general don’t understand.  When I left my ex I moved across the country because he had said I would never leave him. After 22 years I was afraid and my mom was terrified for me.   22 years later I am still alive.  But I took a lot of precautions. 

[EricL]

It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.

I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly. 

[former player]

It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.

I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.

Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood.  Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help.  Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".

[EricL]

It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.

I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.

Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood.  Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help.  Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".

You're absolutely right about that.  It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy."  I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in.  Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting. 

All in all I'm pretty disappointed.  I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before.  Even fierce and bitter ones.  But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence. 

[former player]

res ispa loquitur.

I tried.

[KBecks]

G dog,  I appreciate the support.  I will check in with my best friend every day and she will come over if she doesn’t hear from me.

That's a good plan.  I hope it's uneventful.

[ender]

You're absolutely right about that.  It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy."  I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in.  Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting. 

All in all I'm pretty disappointed.  I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before.  Even fierce and bitter ones.  But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.

As a guy, I'm happy to have this conversation with you in a different thread, but stop making Cassie's thread all about yourself. Playing a victim card here while misrepresenting what you said (which is clearly visible to everyone in the thread) is juvenile.

[A Fella from Stella]

You're absolutely right about that.  It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy."  I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in.  Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting. 

All in all I'm pretty disappointed.  I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before.  Even fierce and bitter ones.  But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.

As a guy, I'm happy to have this conversation with you elsewhere, but stop making Cassie's thread all about yourself. Playing a victim card here while misrepresenting what you said (which is clearly visible to everyone in the thread) is juvenile.

If we're taking this outside, let's take it outside! You'll find me in the Monster Energy Drink shirt drinking a Red Bull.

[A Fella from Stella]

I am so sorry you're going through this. The guy sounds like he's losing it, and while you've been close in proximity, you don't seem like you'd have chosen to hang with this dude.

I've had to let some friendships go over the past few years (5 years now; can't believe it's been that long), and I still think about them, but found that I was pretty much immediately better off. Especially when I started putting that time into other people/things.

[Montecarlo]

Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons?  It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of.  It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.

[Zamboni]

It doesn't sound like he was in the habit of inviting you to things. Therefore, I think that you probably won't hear from him again if you ghost him.

[OtherJen]

Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons?  It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of.  It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.

Or if she's not quite ready to take that step (I'm not there yet myself), a pepper spray canister.

I run a moderate risk of running into my ex-friend/stalker due to mutual acquaintances and community events, and the pepper spray on my key-ring means that if he approaches me when I'm alone—his preferred mode of harassing me, particularly in parking lots—I have a better chance of being able to get away from him as my keys would be in hand.

Cameras on the house may also be useful (we installed one that covers the front of our property), as well as an alarm system if it seems he might escalate.

Cassie, whether or not you do ever decide to contact him again, there's no reason to rush the decision and certainly not while you'll be home alone. I think you're doing a smart thing by having people check on you while your husband is gone.

[KBecks]

Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons?  It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of.  It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.

I'll take this one.  Perhaps the lady doesn't want to own a gun.  That is a very personal decision.  I think for many people, adding a gun in the mix does not increase safety and also elevates the stress levels.

I'll second the recommendation for the book, The Gift of Fear.   Also, how responsive are your local police?  Make sure your home is secure and do not open the door for this person.  Do not answer phone calls.  Be very careful upon entry and exit of your home.  Just basic situational awareness.

I hope all is well and your life is uneventful.  Keep your phone charged and handy at all times, just in case. Stay in touch with us here, too, if you don't mind!

[Montecarlo]

Why not get a gun and take shooting lessons?  It may sound extreme, but it sounds like you really don’t know what he’s capable of.  It’s a decent investment in personal security anyways.

I'll take this one.  Perhaps the lady doesn't want to own a gun.  That is a very personal decision.

Lol captain obvious over here

[Villanelle]

It is really telling who Eric's sympathy is with in this situation - the poor man who threw a knife and not the woman who had a knife thrown and whose job it now is to make sure knife thrower gets medical attention and/or has it clearly explained that knife throwing is not OK. Somehow it's not knife-thrower's job to be a good guest or do any self-examination as to why invitations have been drying up.

I think it's really telling that you want to make things up about me to further pointless antagonism despite me saying completely different things repeatedly.

Eric, I'm sorry you feel misunderstood.  Unfortunately for you I think you are past the point at which your making further interventions in this thread is going to help.  Your best bet is to let it go, instead of being remembered as "that man who doesn't understand".

You're absolutely right about that.  It's beyond me how people here can jump from me saying "It might be a good idea, as a friend, to suggest psychiatric help" to "It's the OP's duty to jump on a grenade for this guy."  I can only assume the "he sympathizes with the crazy guy" interpretation is just a trolling attempt to provoke to reply with a personal insult so the mods can come in.  Though in a way the assumption that "I just want her to fulfill traditional gender roles" or the patronizing "he just doesn't understand women" is just as insulting. 

All in all I'm pretty disappointed.  I've had disagreements on the MMM forums before.  Even fierce and bitter ones.  But at least previous posters who disagreed with me didn't deliberately and repeatedly mis read everything I said or make patronizing assumptions about who I am or what I believe based on almost no evidence.

YOu didn't just say that it might be good idea as a friend to try to help.  You said she should not approach him while he holds a chainsaw, which is incredibly patronizing (since you bring up how it feels to be patronized) and that she might well not be worth being friends with if she doesn't do that.

Can you not see how that goes well beyond, "it might be a good idea, as a friend, to try to approach him"?

[Cassie]

No guns for me as I would probably shoot my husband or one of my kids.  He often initiated contact by saying let’s have dinner and play cards.  I am just hoping that doesn’t happen. I would sometimes invite him and occasionally he brought a pizza.   Villanelle , thanks for explaining to Eric better than I could how his comments made me feel.   We have seen our friends through illness to death and have helped care for them. I have always been a good friend. I have severed a few friends when it became unhealthy.  I have put up with more crap than most people.

[OtherJen]

No guns for me as I would probably shoot my husband or one of my kids.  He often initiated contact by saying let’s have dinner and play cards.  I am just hoping that doesn’t happen. I would sometimes invite him and occasionally he brought a pizza.   Villanelle , thanks for explaining to Eric better than I could how his comments made me feel.   We have seen our friends through illness to death and have helped care for them. I have always been a good friend. I have severed a few friends when it became unhealthy.  I have put up with more crap than most people.

If he contacts you, you're well within your rights to tell him that his previous behavior made you feel unsafe and you are not comfortable spending time with him. What he does with that information is up to him. You definitely don't need to tell him whether your husband is home or not. If your husband is not home, maybe see if another friend can stay with you for a few days after you respond to this man. And keep some form of physical protection (pepper spray, baseball bat, etc.) with you at home.

[Cassie]

Yes if he contacts me I will text him that.  I am not taking phone calls. Hopefully he noticed I unfriended him on Facebook because that should give him the hint.