Let's talk about aging and age discrimination

[sui generis]

I wonder how many of you here are like me, and part of the reason I wanted to FIRE was to enjoy as much of life as possible before my body and mind started to degrade too much.  Kinda harsh sounding, but the older I got the more I noticed little hardships and, doing the math, calculated that I would be in a world of hurt by my 60s or so assuming a linear progression.

Well, I did FIRE (6.5 years ago) and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made.  I'm now 47, so I can barely cling to the "mid-40s" moniker if I wanted to.  But it's not so much the number that's hard for me, but that indeed that since about the time I turned 40, I do see that linear progression (in my mind and body) that makes me worried about my 60s and beyond.

Right now I'm a super healthy person and always pushing with still lifting heavy, intellectually engaging pursuits, etc so this is not coming from your average American that may have taken poor care of herself and is seeing the effects and could just eat some more vegetables or something.  And I'm the first to admit that I've been extremely lucky to have the health that I do.

But that's almost all the more scary to me - I'm pretty much doing all the things and probably my luck is due to run out at any time since I've had such a long run of the good luck, and it's still not looking too good today, with all the advantages stacked in my favor.  Also, unlike most people my age and older I don't feel a smidgen more wise than I ever was.  If anything, my only wisdom is to know that I am less wise than I always thought I may have been!  But that one, I think, is just me.

So, I think I'm ageist, and that's terrible because this article (https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/12/28/nx-s1-5234649/ageism-ageist-harm-health-discrimination) says that people with a more positive attitude toward aging live 7.5 years longer.  But how do I have a more positive experience toward aging when, notwithstanding that I am extremely happy and grateful and joyous right now, I see nothing but storm clouds on the horizon?

I'm curious if others here struggle with this fear and/or the realities of trying to reconcile the joys of aging with the realities of a failing body and mind?

I'm also curious how others think about or have experienced ageism.  I would never think or do some of the things mentioned in that article, but I still feel like I'm rather ageist since I have such a fear of and disgust for (at least my own) aging.

[RetiredAt63]

Re the article, I've had more trouble being female than old with doctors.  Also, menopause is a kick in the teeth.   Once we get past that our bodies stabilize at the new normal.

One good point was to do activities with mixed age groups.  Not just people younger than you, but also older so you can see their quality of life.  There are lots of 50+ Mustachians over in the Journals, living the good life.

I haven't had any issues with the other examples, but then I basically approach life not all that much differently than I did 10 years ago.  Except I've done more traveling and moved cities more.  Maybe I'll notice it more in my 80s.

Re health, look at your parents and grandparents.   If they died young, why? Is there something you can do to improve your odds?  If they all were old, you have a good chance of also lasting a long time.  My retirement planning, for example, assumes I'll live to my 90s and be reasonably independent for most of that.  My grandmother stayed in their house after my grandfather died, she only moved to a seniors residence when she was 90.  She is my example.

 The wisdom of age is basically having lived through a lot.  You are only 47.  Give it another 20 years.

[Dicey]

I have thoughts, but I'm supposed to be sleeping. Posting so I can find this tomorrow.

[Fru-Gal]

47 is young.

Look at master’s athletes for some inspiration.

[Metalcat]

Uhh...I'm pretty severely disabled and my quality of life is fantastic.

Yes, you are being ageist and ableist. But that's normal, our society conditions us to be terrified of disability, which is why we're so atrocious to the third of the population that's disabled, because we gimpy folks scare the shit out of everyone.

I'm told on a regular basis that people would rather die than be like me.

Like, openly, people tell me this. They say it in polite ways, but they do flat out tell me that they don't think that my life is worth living and if it were them, they would rather die. I'm a therapist for people like me, so I understand exactly where it comes from.

There's something to your point, but it's not what you think it is.

We should all not be putting off living our best lives. If retiring is how you can live your best life, then great. If working a job you love is how to live your best life, then great.

But it's not about leaving the workforce as quickly as possible to get in as many good years as possible before your body shits the bed. It's bigger than that, it's about not wasting the years you have AT ALL.

I'll give you that severe cognitive decline is a nightmare, Alzheimer's runs in my family, so I'm acutely aware of how ruinous for quality of life that can be, but it mostly occurs around the age range that people die anyway. Early onset is quite rare.

So yeah, you're going to die and you might die over a period of time, that's not unusual. That's not aging though, that's dying. It sometimes takes time.

You're talking about disability, living with disability, which is very common as you age. You're not afraid of aging, you're afraid of becoming disabled, and you're WAY MORE afraid of being like me and getting disabled young and having to live with disability.

You think my life would suck. Again, I understand that, virtually everyone does, but it's pretty fucked up. You know nothing about my life. You have no basis to conclude that my life is somehow worse than yours.

What you're saying is that you don't understand how disabled people with substantial physical limitations can thrive and have excellent quality of life. Which makes sense, I work with disabled people who also don't understand that either and think they're lives are trash until I'm done with them.

It's reasonable to fear losing function. I've lost a lot and I too fear losing function. But I don't make the logical leap that if I lose more function, I'll never be able to be as happy as I am now. That makes no sense. It might make sense to you and to a lot of people, but that's only because you've been conditioned to have some seriously bullshit attitudes towards disability.

I also don't live my best life despite being disabled. I'm fact, in many ways, I live my best life because I'm disabled. Disability forced my hand to focus much, much more on quality of life because you can't get away with much self-neglect when you have a high maintenance body like mine.

I was a primary care provider for years, so I worked with the general public from infants to people over 100 years old. I've been watching people at different ages and different levels of disability and the average able-bodied middle-aged person is not someone I would want to trade lives with.

FTR, I've been disabled to some degree all my life. I was born with a condition that affects my whole body and makes it extremely prone to breakdown. So I've always been physically limited.

EVERYONE lives with limitations, absolutely everyone. Living with physical limitations is not magically worse than all other limitations. They're not some special category that gets special class as more life limiting than other limitations.

There are certain things human beings need to be happy and to thrive. And none of them require a perfectly healthy body.

[Sailor Sam]

Yup, aging is something I think about. My industry is dominated by the 18-25 set, and I’m very aware I’m no longer like them. At 44 my knees creak, and my hair is turning grey, but for me the awareness of aging in is more psychological than physiological. My life options are closing. I don’t really want to be an astronaut, but those kids still have the option, and I do not.

I think acceptance of the narrowing path is really similar to voluntarily frugality, and minimalism. I concentrate on what I do have, instead of lusting after other things. I’m the commanding officer of a big government ship! Something only 500-ish Americans get to experience in any given year. How goddamn amazing is that?

And when I retire at 47 I have a lot of closed doors for second careers (if I want one, mustachian, after all). I’m just not going to have the physical body left to be a Cowboy, or sail around the world solo, or be a young prodigy at anything. But I can be a motherfucking old prodigy. I’ll have 20 to 40 years to master something new, and find deep satisfaction with that.

Also, I don’t necessarily love the wrinkles. But the grey hair is the first major change in my appearance since I finished growing. It’s pretty cool to watch the progression. I’m gonna rock grey hair once the transition is complete.

[twinstudy]

I'm in my late 30s and I can notice that my body isn't as fit as it was before. It doesn't heal and regenerate as well, and I have to be ridiculously careful with my diet in order to lose weight/gain muscle. I also have all sorts of joint pains and clicking. It is what it is.

One of the strangest ways I noticed it was my reflexes. I regularly test them (a fan of online shooting games) and I went from about 0.19 seconds to 0.24 seconds which, if you think about it, is a very significant 25% reduction. I guess it's a proxy for all the other ways my body is slowly declining from peak performance. But overall, it doesn't bother me too much as I think we humans are very good at getting used to slow global changes.

[Metalcat]

Yup, aging is something I think about. My industry is dominated by the 18-25 set, and I’m very aware I’m no longer like them. At 44 my knees creak, and my hair is turning grey, but for me the awareness of aging in is more psychological than physiological. My life options are closing. I don’t really want to be an astronaut, but those kids still have the option, and I do not.

I think acceptance of the narrowing path is really similar to voluntarily frugality, and minimalism. I concentrate on what I do have, instead of lusting after other things. I’m the commanding officer of a big government ship! Something only 500-ish Americans get to experience in any given year. How goddamn amazing is that?

And when I retire at 47 I have a lot of closed doors for second careers (if I want one, mustachian, after all). I’m just not going to have the physical body left to be a Cowboy, or sail around the world solo, or be a young prodigy at anything. But I can be a motherfucking old prodigy. I’ll have 20 to 40 years to master something new, and find deep satisfaction with that.

Also, I don’t necessarily love the wrinkles. But the grey hair is the first major change in my appearance since I finished growing. It’s pretty cool to watch the progression. I’m gonna rock grey hair once the transition is complete.

This is exactly it.

Although I wouldn't even call it a narrowing path. There are so many options for how to live your life that limitations don't do much narrow your path as point you in certain directions.

We ALL have limitations, we're just used to most of them and they feel "normal" when they've always been there, and they rarely feel like limitations unless someone tells us they are, like if we suck at sports or have a learning disability that lowers our academic performance relative to others. Those limitations direct us as to what paths make most sense.

But the average 5'2", slight build female doesn't spend her days consciously aware that her ability to become a professional linebacker has always been limited.

We're ALL incredibly limited, and if we focused on all of the things we can't do in life, we would lose our minds, which is why it's pathological to focus on one kind of limitation.

Comparing it to frugality and minimalism is spot on though.

My life got much better when I discovered the benefits of frugality because I became so much more judicious about how I spent my money. Being forced into frugality is scary, no one wants to lose a lot of wealth or income, but I did. We lost the majority of our household income, but surprisingly, our quality of life steadily got better.

No one wants to lose function, and when I first started losing significant function in 2019, I was terrified, but interestingly, our quality of life started steadily improving and continued to do so even as I continue to lose function.

Because you don't need to spend a ton of money to be happy, nor do you need an endless supply of physical ability to be happy either.

I live with a super-abled partner. He's in his 50s, built like a superhero, and spends hours of his week playing basketball with teenagers who can't keep up with him. He can run up 20 flights of stairs carrying a week's worth of groceries. He might actually *be* a superhero.

His quality of life is not better than mine. He has his own limitations because he's neurodiverse and had a really rough upbringing. In fact, I support him more materially with his limitations than he does with mine. He has to do household chores to help me out, while I have to manage all of his executive function. I'm pretty sure he gets the much better deal here, I can outsource his labour for $15/hr while mine costs ten times as much.

As I said, physical limitations are not some special kind of "bad" that make life so much worse than other limitations.

EVERYONE is guided in life by their own particular combo of strengths and limitations. I have strengths that I seriously would never trade off for a body that works better. Would a body that works better be a nice thing to have? Sure, of course, but no one gets everything in life. No one gets riches on every front. Life doesn't work that way.

Life is HARD for absolutely everyone. Life is just hard, that's normal. And having health problems if you don't have the right supports is a horror show.

But honestly, if you have the right supports, dealing with physical limitations is probably one of the easier ongoing limitations to deal with.

I really don't see my options as being limited by disability. As I said before, disability more guides the choices I make when seeking to maximize my quality of life.

DH uses the metaphor of "dog travel" when discussing what other people conceive of as narrowing of options due to disability. There are virtually infinite options in life of things to do if you have sufficient resources.

We have a dog with separation anxiety and my DH is ridiculously soft, so if we travel, she travels with us. Since traveling with an anxious dog, we have had to modify how we travel and where we travel to. Now, he gets offended if I describe this as being "limited" to pet-friendly accommodations because having to find appropriate travel options has often produced outcomes where we discover really cool places we might have never visited otherwise.

DH loves "Dog Travel." He loves funky, off the beaten path, quirky places to visit. Also, Dog Travel out here happens to also be more frugal travel. The lodgings that allow pets are less glamourous, and our activities are more nature focused. We're less likely to do the typical thing of staying at the best rated hotel and eating at the best rated restaurants. We're going to stay at some whacky cottage attached to a "museum" that's all taxidermied animals and die laughing about the whole hilarious experience.

That's disabled life too. That's frugal life. That's all of the factors that direct us to maybe do things a little differently than the average and have a lot more fun in the process.

When you see the world as packed with limitless options, then whatever limitations you have just gives you more direction as to where to go.

Our lives are equally directed by our strengths and limitations, just like everyone else's. And just like with frugality, limitations can act as an excellent curating force pushing you towards what's most optimal.

[OzzieandHarriet]

47 is young.

Look at master’s athletes for some inspiration.

This!

[sui generis]

It is very true that a more accurate statement is a fear of disability.  It's aging, ALSO.  People always talked about wrinkles when I was young and I don't have many of those, but the *jowls* I see coming when I look in the mirror now!  But it is a little easier too talk to myself about how society has trained me to hate something purely cosmetic that is not inherently anything other than neutral if we didn't place judgments on it.

I have read many times about how people who experience a sudden and/or profound disability do fairly quickly return to approximately their previous level of happiness.  And studies that show older people are often *happier* than people in my age bracket. 

But my personal experience has been quite negative with the small amount of diminishing ability I've had so far.  It's been expected - that's why I retired early and did a long backpacking trail ASAP when I did.  But losing my ability to get out into the deep wilderness is a real grief that I worry about contending with and is already a physical pain that diminishes my enjoyment.  So it's easy for me to conclude that my unhappiness will increase with my loss of ability, because that is what has been happening so far, even though that's evidently not the case for the majority of humans.  I don't understand why I would be different than the majority of humans in this way, but so far that's what seems to be happening.

I appreciate the point that this may be an active process to change my attitude (acceptance as Sailor Sam put it) rather than passive - it has seemed like something that just "happens" for people as they age and/or become disabled, but my it's very possible that that is an incorrect perception of mine and that that is in fact hard work for many or most people.

Which has me circling back to one of those question from my OP - the reconciliation.  Or the acceptance.  Or the work.  I would welcome hearing, from anyone for whom this was a very active and deliberate process, more about that work.

Books? Podcasts? Therapy? What have you done to accept and celebrate aging/changes in ability and really internalize positive rather than negative perceptions about changed circumstances?

[Fru-Gal]

Do you want to feel better about aging?

[sui generis]

Do you want to feel better about aging?

I do - or at least, I want to "be like everyone else."  Like, the people that are just as happy after losing abilities, or are happier when they are older than in their middle age.  It's just a mystery to me how to get there from here. 

[Fru-Gal]

The way you framed what you want to be like betrays your belief system.

Perhaps “The Work” by Byron Katie would help?

[Fru-Gal]

Alternate theory: If the fear of aging is relatively new, given that you retired very early, it’s possible this is free-floating anxiety or ennui that is occurring due to the need for new challenges/goals.

WRT aging, I could give you a list of beliefs that I enjoy that run counter to everything you have read or thought about aging, but it would fall on deaf ears. As always, @Metalcat already did it better than I could.

[okits]

Books? Podcasts? Therapy? What have you done to accept and celebrate aging/changes in ability and really internalize positive rather than negative perceptions about changed circumstances?

A couple of thoughts.

You seem very focused on diminishing ability due to age.  Can you take a wider view?  Are there things age has given you?  Security and stability in your family situation, social network, professional standing, financial position, emotional footing?  Pointing at what you've lost to time without acknowledging what you've gained is only half the picture and sure to make you unhappy.

What can you change?  And is the effort to change it worth it?  If not changeable or worth changing, why spend your time and energy worrying about it?  The same time and energy could be spent on things that bring you joy.  The time and energy will be gone regardless, but the latter approach leaves you happier.

Are you directing enough of your time and energy to help others?  Helping others can both show you how able you still are and bring feelings of satisfaction and social connection.  Put yourself in a different context and change the yardstick to see how you feel about your abilities and what abilities matter.

I'm 45.  I know time will take away some things and give me other things.  I've seen others die young and feel thankful for the opportunity to grow old.  I have spent and am spending my time doing the things that are most important to me, a mix of family, professional, and leisure pursuits.  I think worries about age and age discrimination have always affected me in some way, so I can be aware of it but just need to keep living my life.  I've never been better positioned than I am now to make of my life what I want to.

[Metalcat]

It is very true that a more accurate statement is a fear of disability.  It's aging, ALSO.  People always talked about wrinkles when I was young and I don't have many of those, but the *jowls* I see coming when I look in the mirror now!  But it is a little easier too talk to myself about how society has trained me to hate something purely cosmetic that is not inherently anything other than neutral if we didn't place judgments on it.

I have read many times about how people who experience a sudden and/or profound disability do fairly quickly return to approximately their previous level of happiness.  And studies that show older people are often *happier* than people in my age bracket. 

But my personal experience has been quite negative with the small amount of diminishing ability I've had so far.  It's been expected - that's why I retired early and did a long backpacking trail ASAP when I did.  But losing my ability to get out into the deep wilderness is a real grief that I worry about contending with and is already a physical pain that diminishes my enjoyment.  So it's easy for me to conclude that my unhappiness will increase with my loss of ability, because that is what has been happening so far, even though that's evidently not the case for the majority of humans.  I don't understand why I would be different than the majority of humans in this way, but so far that's what seems to be happening.

I appreciate the point that this may be an active process to change my attitude (acceptance as Sailor Sam put it) rather than passive - it has seemed like something that just "happens" for people as they age and/or become disabled, but my it's very possible that that is an incorrect perception of mine and that that is in fact hard work for many or most people.

Which has me circling back to one of those question from my OP - the reconciliation.  Or the acceptance.  Or the work.  I would welcome hearing, from anyone for whom this was a very active and deliberate process, more about that work.

Books? Podcasts? Therapy? What have you done to accept and celebrate aging/changes in ability and really internalize positive rather than negative perceptions about changed circumstances?

Yes, the esthetics of aging are a totally different but related experience.

To process and accept aging is to process the youth and beauty obsessed culture we've been conditioned by.

I think the best wisdom on this front is to realize that young, beautiful people often hate their appearance as much or more than older, wrinkled "less attractive" people do.

There may be "pretty privilege" in this world, but that privilege does not make people any happier on average. I've found that few people scrutinize their esthetic physical flaws as much as really attractive people do.

So while aging may correlate with feeling less attractive, it doesn't necessarily correlate with being less happy with your appearance.

I can't tell you how many women in particular I've spoken to who look at old photos of themselves and marvel at how beautiful they used to be and scold their younger selves for being brutally self critical at that age.

I had a really eye opening moment with my mom in 2023. I won't go into details because it's a long story with a ton of context, but I witnessed the impact of vanity in a woman who should really not still be alive, much less capable of vanity.

She had recently lost a 5th of her brain and I watched this living, walking human miracle feel the need to put on a full face of makeup to have a meeting with the team who bathed her and changed her diapers for weeks.

I do understand that what she needed in that moment was to feel normal. I'm not judging her. But in that moment it profoundly struck me as ridiculous that she STILL didn't feel comfortable just existing as a woman in her own skin. Even after surviving and recovering from something that should have killed her or produced "profound and irreversible physical and cognitive impairments."

I'm not immune to insecurity around loss of youth and beauty. I operate from a position of compassion for why that insecurity exists and curiousity about where it came from and why it feels so important even though being young and beautiful doesn't make people love themselves any more.

I also remember my 90s thin-obsessed years and an eating disorder that insisted that I would love my body if I was just a bit thinner. Then I remember that the period of life where I actually loved my body most was when I was obese, because I had just finished my doctorate, my body had soldiered through years of 100hr weeks and everyone in the program had either gained a ton of weight or developed a stimulant addiction.

It was also the first moment in my life where I felt like my worth was more determined by my abilities and accomplishments than my looks. Being obese, I was able to be more invisible and for the first time in my life, that meant I was being less constantly evaluated for my fuckability.

I felt more like a human being than an object.

So while I struggle with my body's changes, while I look at my right leg, which is riddled with tiny incision scars that look like mega cellulite, I can't say I find it attractive. I don't, it's pretty ugly. But my leg has also been through a war. It's not in a wheelchair anymore. It can carry my weight a lot of the time. It's accomplished so much more than being evaluated as the leg of a highly fuckable body.

It's not that it's not ugly. It's ugly. But it's earned it's right to be ugly.

We all have. We just don't believe that. So losing beauty feels like failure.

[Ron Scott]

In my experience people who think and fret the most about how they’re gonna age live the longest.

If you’re under 70 and have taken care of yourself  you’re still young enough to do almost everything you actually want to. 70 is a knock on the door and you’ll have to focus more than ever on doing things to keep healthy and fit…mentally, physically, the whole deal. It’s a time commitment now.

Sometime around 82 you wake up and you’re old. You still gotta eat right and exercise, but there’s no guarantees of real progress anymore. If you’re lucky and avoid cancer and heart disease you can still enjoy yourself doing the Hokey Pokey and without Bingo and pudding.

Mid-to late 80s? When they call I22 cross your fingers and say “quack-quack”.

[sui generis]

I appreciate the thoughtful posts.

And I do just want to clarify that I am not desperate or in a bad way, I'm curious and have noticed red flags that are concerning, but all this typically takes up a de minimis portion of my time or energy.  It has taken up much more in recent weeks as my sister and I had to activate emergency plans to save my mother's life by getting my stepfather into Memory Care.  So watching his decline and serious distress as well as her decline and distress both just over the last couple months as well as the last few years, has certainly made an unfavorable impression on me as to aging and how happy one can be when losing abilities (as the sufferer or the caretaker).

So I posted this because it's on my mind lately and I thought it might be on others' generall as well.  I want to be proactive in dealing with something that is for me a small issue now, and also hoped a broad and frank discussion (that can take place in anonymous or semi-anonymous places like these) would be useful to more people. 

It seems to me that it's something that's not talked about enough, much like menopause.  The menopause thread here has appeared so valuable for so many and I thought something similar around aging might end up similarly valuable.

[Fru-Gal]

It’s strange to me that after menopause one would mourn the loss of monthly bleeding, sore breasts, cramps, and most life-changing of all, the constant concern with getting pregnant.

Imagine if you had to live until the day you died worried about pregnancy! 75 or 85 years old, possibly pregnant and having to go through childbirth, breast-feeding and 20 years of child-rearing!

We’re just now discovering that many mammals go through menopause. Gorillas, chimps, toothed whales. More will be found, I’m sure.

There are some really interesting perspectives out there about menopause, but you won’t hear about them because it became an opportunity to sell a new disease model. It also became a handy excuse for a miasma of maladies that could have any number of causes, including aging (the passage of time and attendant disuse, exposure to contaminants, possible mutations, loss of motor units) itself.

I was talking to someone who insisted that after menopause they had recently lost a certain physiological skill (not one commonly associated with menopause, BTW). The interesting thing to me was that this person was in their mid-60s and presumably had stopped ovulating a decade ago. Personally I’d look to other causality, or just generic “aging” (though that is increasingly found to be just as problematic a marker), before blaming menopause specifically. (I just remembered… this person smoked. But had never thought that a lifelong smoking habit might be more related to the problem?!)

Remember that in the 1920s-1950s, infant formula was considered superior to human milk. Back in the 1800s, hysteria was considered a disease and the cure was pelvic massage, clitoral stimulation and the use of a vibrator — all done by an obliging male physician, of course. The birth control pill revolutionized sex but still subjected women to the effects of lifelong hormone disruption while completely ignoring the male side of the equation. The female reproductive system has been the target of scientific fads and predatory marketing forever.

Now the anti-aging movement has ludicrously convinced women to spend thousands of dollars on toxins, fillers and facial surgeries, not to mention unregulated and unproven pills, supplements and creams. What exactly is the point of looking nubile when you are no longer nubile (in terms of reproductive capacity)?

The plastic surgeons are distracting us from true anti-aging: The continual maintainance and perfection of function. Aging is the ultimate opportunity to practice essentialism and ephemeralism. We each have a limited number of motor units and our increasingly sedentary lifestyle will cause them to decline faster. There are specific movements that do more than any supplement could for maintaining motor units. A long healthspan requires maintaining and increasing skeletal muscle — rather than letting it atrophy because fashion desires lithe, muscle-free bodies and smooth, wrinkle-free skin.

Thankfully, we live in a time where the true pioneers of ageless lifestyles CAN be found online and in our master’s athletics, where the records just keep being broken.

I could go on and on but I’ll stop there.

Hmmm maybe I should write a book about this. One that’s not total bullshit like Sinclair’s book, or predicated on pill-popping and risky, exhorbitantly costly interventions like Bryan Johnson.

[Ron Scott]

The concept of a healthy lifestyle leading to longevity—encompassing a balanced diet, regular exercise focused on both aerobics and strengthening, and sufficient sleep, has been developing over centuries. And its widespread recognition and acceptance gained significant traction in the late 20th century.

People know what to do. Doing it is another issue.

[the lorax]

Books? Podcasts? Therapy? What have you done to accept and celebrate aging/changes in ability and really internalize positive rather than negative perceptions about changed circumstances?

Others have written really great responses so I'll just chime in with a recommendation for this last bit. I've always been physically pretty active and strong (climber and used to do a lot of hiking). In my mid forties I started to worry that it was all going to be about me getting weaker and experiencing more aches and pains from then on.  A friend of mine who'd just finished a sports science degree convinced me otherwise and got me into weights training which has helped loads, particulalry when I was getting bad anxiety/hearth palpitations from perimenopuase.
this book is pretty helpful on how women in perimenopause and after can train and fuel well:
https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/next-level-9780593233153

There is a lot of snake oil being peddled generally around anti-aging for aesthetics and now more and more to target pre/menopasual women which is frustrating and unhelpful.
The following book is a decent review of current research in anti-aging - I remember this researcher from when I was doing cell aging research - just bear in mind that a lot of research studies still don't disagreggrate by gender so recs may be more applicable to the 'default' male:
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9780008292355/lifespan/

The Telomere Effect: A Revolutionary Approach to Living Younger, Healthier, Longer Hardcover – 3 January 2017
by Dr Elizabeth Blackburn (Author), Dr Elissa Epel (Author) - another one written by a scientist with good name in the field.

Whilst there's a lot of pseudo science out there, certain recs have maintained currency over the years - eating well, sleeping well, staying active, having good social connections through volunteering/family etc.

[Fru-Gal]

The concept of a healthy lifestyle leading to longevity—encompassing a balanced diet, regular exercise focused on both aerobics and strengthening, and sufficient sleep, has been developing over centuries. And its widespread recognition and acceptance gained significant traction in the late 20th century.

People know what to do. Doing it is another issue.

Dunno if someone can find it but I seem to recall a wonderful Aldous Huxley quote where he’s driving in a Hollywood graveyard and the corpses are all out playing golf and looking fantastic.

[Fru-Gal]

Books? Podcasts? Therapy? What have you done to accept and celebrate aging/changes in ability and really internalize positive rather than negative perceptions about changed circumstances?

Others have written really great responses so I'll just chime in with a recommendation for this last bit. I've always been physically pretty active and strong (climber and used to do a lot of hiking). In my mid forties I started to worry that it was all going to be about me getting weaker and experiencing more aches and pains from then on.  A friend of mine who'd just finished a sports science degree convinced me otherwise and got me into weights training which has helped loads, particulalry when I was getting bad anxiety/hearth palpitations from perimenopuase.
this book is pretty helpful on how women in perimenopause and after can train and fuel well:
https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/next-level-9780593233153

There is a lot of snake oil being peddled generally around anti-aging for aesthetics and now more and more to target pre/menopasual women which is frustrating and unhelpful.
The following book is a decent review of current research in anti-aging - I remember this researcher from when I was doing cell aging research - just bear in mind that a lot of research studies still don't disagreggrate by gender so recs may be more applicable to the 'default' male:
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9780008292355/lifespan/

The Telomere Effect: A Revolutionary Approach to Living Younger, Healthier, Longer Hardcover – 3 January 2017
by Dr Elizabeth Blackburn (Author), Dr Elissa Epel (Author) - another one written by a scientist with good name in the field.

Whilst there's a lot of pseudo science out there, certain recs have maintained currency over the years - eating well, sleeping well, staying active, having good social connections through volunteering/family etc.

Unfortunately Sinclair’s research (the second book you linked, Lifespan) seemed compelling but has since been well-debunked:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9669175/

[lhamo]

I appreciate the thoughtful posts.

And I do just want to clarify that I am not desperate or in a bad way, I'm curious and have noticed red flags that are concerning, but all this typically takes up a de minimis portion of my time or energy.  It has taken up much more in recent weeks as my sister and I had to activate emergency plans to save my mother's life by getting my stepfather into Memory Care.  So watching his decline and serious distress as well as her decline and distress both just over the last couple months as well as the last few years, has certainly made an unfavorable impression on me as to aging and how happy one can be when losing abilities (as the sufferer or the caretaker).

So I posted this because it's on my mind lately and I thought it might be on others' generall as well.  I want to be proactive in dealing with something that is for me a small issue now, and also hoped a broad and frank discussion (that can take place in anonymous or semi-anonymous places like these) would be useful to more people. 

It seems to me that it's something that's not talked about enough, much like menopause.  The menopause thread here has appeared so valuable for so many and I thought something similar around aging might end up similarly valuable.

While I appreciate the curiousity about the general issue, it seems to me that your current concerns are very much a trauma response to what you have been going through/will be going through with your mom.

Not to close down discussion here, but if you are not in therapy at the moment you might want to consider it.  Having better mental health support for yourself will help you be more supportive for you mom as she deals with her own crisis.

I have thoughts about the topic but right now I need to go finish painting my newly remodeled bedroom -- just one of the new skills I am happy to have picked up at age 56!  For me, continuing to challenge myself/grow in a variety of ways is an important part of aging in a healthy way, both physically and mentally.  I've got so much shit I want to do/learn still!  Do my hips and knees sometimes hurt more than they used to?  Sure.  But so far I've recovered from most of the mild injuries I have done to them by pushing myself too hard.  I'd be a lot better off if I could drop the extra 30-40 lbs I'm carrying around but I have stopped obsessing about my weight/what I eat and will be trying to do that gradually over the next few years now that stress eating is not such a big issue for me (thank you divorce!)

[G-dog]

There just is something disconcerting about having the realities of aging stare you in the face each day - aside from any vanity, it’s a reminder that while you may feel 20 years younger, you are not.  Some changes are external and obvious, but then there’s all the hidden  internal chanes that these outer changes represent. 

But, some good news is that you can change some aspects of these trajectories - you are already doing all the right things - exercise, diet, intellectual challenges.  Personally I had been noticing some decrease in my physical abilities, and I took steps to improve them, and I have.  So while you notice some of these specific issues, there might be specific things you can do to improve them or mitigate their impacts on your life.

[Fru-Gal]

I also wanted to mention that I love makeup, hair dos and hair dyes and wigs of all colors, fashion, aesthetics, design… IMHO there’s been a perversion of the beauty standard, mostly perpetuated by entrepreneurial women themselves, that has become ever more extreme.

The old misogynistic take on makeup, helpfully told to me by some paternal figure when I was a teenager, was that it was intended to make my face look “orgasmic”. I call BS on that. Makeup is done mostly for women!

I consider it my war paint for when I have to deal with something I don’t want to, or want to be invincible, or just feel like standing out. I don’t wear it all the time, but it’s a glorious form of ever evolving expression. Makeup and hair can do wonders.

[RetiredAt63]

Just a thought on keeping our bodies functional  - avoid getting sick as much as possible.  So get the blood vitamin D levels up to improve immune health.  Get all the vaccines as appropriate.  Maintain bone density. Maintain dental health.

Warning example - Last year I got Covid a week before my scheduled Covid vaccine.   I got over it but it triggered my extremely mild asthma and now I'm on asthma meds for the foreseeable future.


And menopause is wonderful.  If I were going through it now I would do HRT for the bone sparing effects.


And as others have said, aging is not linear. We are kids, we are basically linear as we grow, then boom! puberty and a new life phase.  Then gradual changes until boom! menopause.  Then gradual changes until we die.

[Fomerly known as something]

It’s interesting, I’m you same age and I guess I’m one of those optimistic ones.  I know I’m likely to have another good 20 years if not more.  Why because my parents have, and my grandparents did.  Yes things will get harder, but that doesn’t mean impossible. 

Do you not have a lot of older well aging people around you?  My community is very outdoorsy.  Today as I was finishing my trail run, 3 gentlemen, likely in their 70s, were beginning their assent. (Of 866 ft if they were doing the same loop as I did in reverse).  Maybe 10 years ago they were running as well, maybe not but they seemed to be still having a good time. 

Yeah 20 years from now I’ll likely have to only bring one bag of groceries in at a time instead of all 3, but that doesn’t mean I’m not having a great life.

[OzzieandHarriet]

I am now 67, so pushing 70 (can't believe it), and the things I have noticed that I think are age-related: I get tired more easily and need more sleep to feel good; my memory isn't as quick or reliable; my eyesight and hearing are not as good; my skin is more sensitive (I developed eczema shortly after menopause); my hair is turning gray and seems drier; and a few other things that are TMI for a public site. But I am pretty active: I walk about 2.5 miles (or more) every day for exercise and I have had several music-related jobs since I retired from full-time work more than a decade ago. I studied music performance in college and have graduate degrees; two years ago I went back to school to get another music degree in a different instrument and auditioned for and was accepted at our big state university, where I'm in classes with people young enough to be my grandchildren (if I had any). One of the program requirements is memorizing music and performing on recitals at the school, which has to be good for my brain. So I'm going to keep at this as long as I can.

I've never smoked or done drugs, and I only occasionally have a glass of wine or a beer. I've eaten vegetarian for more than 50 years. Everyone says I look a lot younger than I am. (When I see myself, like on a Zoom call, I think, man, I look old.)

I've had problems with depression all my life, but I do feel that being in a pleasant marriage (26 years now) and financially stable has helped my mental state enormously. I don't know how I'd be doing without that.

My parents and my two oldest siblings died in their 70s, so I guess I'll see what happens to me.

[the lorax]

Unfortunately Sinclair’s research (the second book you linked, Lifespan) seemed compelling but has since been well-debunked:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9669175/

oh interesting, thanks for posting. I hadn't seen that. I read it a while ago and from memory thought he was really just trying to show some molecular basis for a lot of the common sense stuff around exercise etc plus some clinical interventions such as metformin which I think are still in the mix for investigation re ageing. I did remember his stuff around ageing not being necessary and pushing a line around people living to 120 etc that I don't agree with as I don't see that a handful of rich people living far longer in the context of crazy health inequity  is great for us as a species or planet. I think a lot of science does suffer from that phenomenon of people getting excited over an early positive result that then doesn't get replicated robustly. Telomere research also had its share of hubris around potential for lifespan but I do think the research into the cellular mechanisms underpinning a lot of the ageing related diseases is quite exciting. there's a ton of changes I'd make if I could around science funding and publishing though :)

Going to back the original post, for a while I was working in the health sector in an area dealing a lot with the elderly and trying to improve health outcomes by enabling people to stay well at home and in their communities for longer. A lot of the very experienced clinicians would say that there is a step down effect. This is where people are coping fine at home, then have a fall or something that lands them in hospital. They are quite likely to pick up something like hospital acquired pneumonia/UIT delirium in hospital which makes it more likely they will fall again. So someone who was ok now needs additional services to stay home. Rinse and repeat and they now need respite care/resthome level care. Another fall/hospital visit and now they need hospital level rest home care. For that reason I'm trying to keep functionally fit as long as I can - doing weights and keeping active, knowing my neighbours etc. Everyone is different and has been dealt different cards though. Also agree with the other posters re keeping learning and socialising with a range of ages can be helpful. Positive older role models are a good one for me.

[Dee]

I have lots of thoughts but I'm not sure how many of them I'll be able to articulate. I'll be turning 50 this month and I've definitely got aging and my own future on my mind.

I don't think all my fears about aging are about ableism and the potential losses of certain capacities I currently have. Though many of my fears may be worry about being able to find the right supports as I age. Will I be able to afford them? Do I need to save more in case I want to have more money to pay for supports, etc.? Will these supports be available at all? Will I have the resiliency, capacity and cognition to seek them out and keep at it until I find them?

And these questions are very much informed by my current experience where I am seeking out supports for both myself and my spouse, who is in the mild phase of Alzheimer's.

So to say I have concerns about aging is putting it mildly. 

[GuitarStv]

47 is young.

Look at master’s athletes for some inspiration.

This!

I'm 43 and dropped down two age categories to compete in the over 18 division at the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu provincials this past December.  Came second!  Not as strong or fast as I was in my 20s, but I can still give the youngsters a run for their money.  :P

[rmorris50]

Several ways I have been experiencing agism:

1. It's been hard to digest how quickly corporate America (finance) tosses you to the side once you get to 50ish. Finding a new job in my field has been very difficult (six months laid off and still looking) and I haven't yet given up to pivot to something else. I still like my trade. But I am SOOO glad I pursued FI for the past 15 years, I would be terrified to be in this situation and not FI.

2. I've been adjusting my expectations of those close to me, particularly family, just "giving up" as they age and at least not try to improve themselves to what is within their capabilities. I use to really encourage my spouse and a parent on how to live healthier, improve finances, open up about their issues, and I try to live by those values. But I've had to learn to just back off and let them be, they have to drive to make the changes. But I think I really fear me losing that drive, doing the best I reasonably can within my capabilities, because if I don't then "life feels over", so to speak.

3. I don't see myself as a old man, but have to remind myself others do when I get those kinda "ugh, he's a old man" vibes from younger people. But I'm pretty good at brushing it off and just focusing on me.

[Metalcat]

It’s interesting, I’m you same age and I guess I’m one of those optimistic ones.  I know I’m likely to have another good 20 years if not more.  Why because my parents have, and my grandparents did.  Yes things will get harder, but that doesn’t mean impossible. 

Do you not have a lot of older well aging people around you?  My community is very outdoorsy.  Today as I was finishing my trail run, 3 gentlemen, likely in their 70s, were beginning their assent. (Of 866 ft if they were doing the same loop as I did in reverse).  Maybe 10 years ago they were running as well, maybe not but they seemed to be still having a good time. 

Yeah 20 years from now I’ll likely have to only bring one bag of groceries in at a time instead of all 3, but that doesn’t mean I’m not having a great life.

I can't carry any grocery bags and my years are still "good ones."

I am also very "outdoorsy." I live in one of the most legendary hiking areas in the world and I hike more than the average able-bodied person does. I need all terrain crutches to do so, and I can't go too far, but I do it and it's awesome.

I also hike with friends who know how to accommodate me. My hiking BFF is amazing at anticipating when I need her to carry my crutches for me so that I can grab onto things to pull myself over tricky terrain. I don't even have to ask, she just anticipates.

This past summer I was also out fishing and I've been invited to go bird and moose hunting. My companions know my limitations, so they happy step in and do whatever I physically can't/shouldn't do, but I'm still out there with friends having fun.

I actually have more fun doing outdoorsy stuff now than when I was able-bodied because I have better friends now, and it's not about how my body performs compared to anyone else's, it's about how much I can enjoy being in my body while connecting with friends and having fun.

It's the same way I don't need to be good at bowling to enjoy bowling with my friends. I suck at bowling and I love bowling. I don't need to be bowling-abled and I don't encounter any bowling-ableism, I'm just bad at bowling and bowling is fun.

[Metalcat]

I have lots of thoughts but I'm not sure how many of them I'll be able to articulate. I'll be turning 50 this month and I've definitely got aging and my own future on my mind.

I don't think all my fears about aging are about ableism and the potential losses of certain capacities I currently have. Though many of my fears may be worry about being able to find the right supports as I age. Will I be able to afford them? Do I need to save more in case I want to have more money to pay for supports, etc.? Will these supports be available at all? Will I have the resiliency, capacity and cognition to seek them out and keep at it until I find them?

And these questions are very much informed by my current experience where I am seeking out supports for both myself and my spouse, who is in the mild phase of Alzheimer's.

So to say I have concerns about aging is putting it mildly.

To clarify, I wasn't generalizing that everyone's fear of aging are all about ableism, I was responding to OP whose original post was filled with ableist language.

Again, that's not a judgemental statement, that's just a normal function of living in a highly ableist society.

Granted, so is living in a society that makes it prohibitively expensive for the 3rd of the population that's disabled to get reasonable care and accommodation.

I too think constantly about the financial burden of disability because I've lived with it for so long. I'm perpetually so insanely grateful for the resources that I have compared to others, which makes me even more upset for those who don't have them.

Alzheimer's is truly terrifying because almost no caregiver managing Alzheimer's or other progressive dementia is adequately supported, and adequate, appropriate supports are the cornerstone of quality of life for the disabled person and their caregiver(s).

Supports don't make it not hard or heartbreaking, but a lot of life is hard and heartbreaking, and appropriate supports are how we get through those hardships and heartbreaks in healthy ways.

Without them, it's a shit show and we just get worn down.

[Fru-Gal]

In the past, dementia was sometimes referred to as “senility” and was thought to be a normal part of aging, likely because it is more common as people age. About one-third of all people age 85 or older may have some form of dementia. But dementia is not a normal part of aging and not everyone develops dementia as they grow older.

https://www.alzheimers.gov/alzheimers-dementias/what-is-dementia

[Fru-Gal]

“Aging” is neither a disease, nor a linear progression towards a helpless state, nor a process of becoming irrevocably and ridiculously ugly. It is simply the passage of time. Here are some more thoughts I have on this (gonna write a book on it).

Lifespan vs healthspan:

I predict the human lifespan will not go beyond 120-127, based on what we see with domestic and captive animals. Removing all the causes of early mortality just means more people and animals get to live out the entire length of their lives. Healthspan, therefore, is more interesting and attainable than immortality.

Causes of mortality:

Death in childhood, in particular, used to be a major cause of mortality. Death in childbirth as well. Accidents were far more prevalent and fatal in the past.

Disease:

Scientists have yet to find a disease that is specifically caused by age, not the passage of time. Rather, they appear to be caused by exposure over time to contaminants, genetic tendencies, accidents, pathogens, disuse, unknown processes, etc.

Cellular damage and bone and skeletal muscle loss are best addressed via prevention. However, the ability to cure cancer, manage diabetes, vaccinate, and manage other conditions is a wonder of science and keeps getting better. The COVID pandemic was the fastest resolution of a global pandemic in human history. And now AIDS is curable!

Addiction and mental health are the new frontiers. We have a long way to go.

Stages of life:

Children experience rapid growth, but growth continues well into adulthood, with bone density and muscle mass peaking in the mid-30s. Reproductive ability marks another decades-long segment of life. After that ends, scientists are now finding no simple indication that “aging” begins. New study of metabolism has disproven the idea that it slows “1% a year.” Now it is believed that is slows “after 60.” But 60 is an AVERAGE, not a rule. There are 80-year-olds still building muscle.

VO2 max is a more interesting question. What causes it to slow over time? Why are some able to maintain a VO2 max of someone decades younger? Currently, it looks like sustained activity is the answer. Same questions apply to motor units, which are also fixed in number and cannot (AFAIK) be regenerated. The frontier for master’s athletes now is explosive power, and it’s now being shown that it can be maintained in the 60s, 70s and beyond.

Being ignored and powerless:

Today’s society, governed by octogenarians, proves this to be a lie. Moreover, many billionaires did not become outlandishly wealthy until middle age.

Beyond the question of ageism, ableism and other forms of discrimination affect people of all ages. Assuming that someone can reach 65 or 75 with absolutely no health difficulties nor societal obstacles is a narrow perspective.

Being ugly:

The fetishization of youth and young adulthood is ancient, and contains a paradox: Children and young adults are usually powerless both politically and economically. Indeed, “excess male death” is possibly programmed into the species to reduce the number of competing young males. Women are the bottleneck for population growth, not men. If an entire generation of women were sent to war and died, population would plummet. The same cannot be said for men.

The idea that facial aging can be circumvented by surgery and other interventions is mostly a lie/marketing. People who have undergone major surgical or other interventions usually look very strange in person, and the surgeries are not long-lasting (need to be re-done ever decade or so). For evidence of the contraindications of plastic surgery, read the reviews on Real Self or watch video of botched patients. Plastic surgery is an art and has improved rapidly. But it is likely that in the future, it will become obsolete.

As with disease, the most effective ways to anti-age the face and body are via PREVENTION, aka preventing sun damage and loss of function.

And what of vanity? Is the obsession with a specific form of beauty, one that manages to deceive the viewer into believing the human in front of them is decades younger and capable of reproduction, or indeed possessing a different phenotype or biology than the one they were born with, a true improvement in our society? Of course there’s no easy wrong-right answer, but it’s clear that marketing and industrialization have done a number on us all, brainwashing us into believing that vanity is important.

Is it, though? What happens when we replace the anxiety about aging and the excess vanity with other pursuits?

When we speak with and study centenarians, how strongly did vanity, supplements and plastic surgery figure in their life stories and successes?

At the opposite end of the spectrum, social media influencers target younger and younger women and men with beauty, skincare and plastic surgery content. As a result, we’re seeing ludicrous “interventions” such as lip filler, Botox, cheek/chin/jaw implants and more on young people. The average age of a face lift has dropped by decades. Ironically, a facelift requires enough skin to pull, and someone getting a facelift in their 20s or 30s often will not have enough skin left over for further tightening in their 50s and beyond! Above all, these costly and dangerous procedures are a symptom of poor mental health, not a cure for gravity!

Beauty of age:

Also, let’s not assume that age isn’t beautiful. Trees, whose lifespans dwarf ours, in some cases, by hundreds or thousands of years, aren’t venerated as saplings. Indeed, it is the very passage of time and accumulated growth, the ability to dodge obstacles and compartmentalize injuries, that make a tree very beautiful to us!

Need more examples here.

Two cosmetic aspects of aging to address: Wrinkles and hair. All hairless mammals show prominent wrinkles where they move frequently or make communicative expressions.

Gray hair or hair loss? What on Earth does it matter to a mostly hairless ape that the useless hair on their head is a different color or gone altogether?

Immortality:

Just putting this here as a note to self. I once read an interesting book on Immortality where, IIRC, each chapter addresses a different philosophical question.

There are many paradoxes in life:
Youth is wasted on the young
Gravity causes damage, yet lack of gravity causes more damage
UV radiation feeds us but damages our skin
Humans cannot live off planet Earth, yet we damage Earth
Outside of our atmosphere and biosphere, radiation is far more damaging and the lack of gravity or being born in a different planetary gravity would render us incapable of living on Earth

(Ok now I’m just riffing, these notes belong in a different book, probably)

Not sure if it should go here or elsewhere, but the danger of over-stimulating cell regeneration is huge! Undifferentiated cells generating too quickly, or not dying off (programmed senescence) is called cancer. Hence, the idea that certain supplements or hormones can help with regeneration is less promising than the idea of prevention.

Menopause and andropause

Of course need sections on this and the role of the endocrine system in all life forms.

Belief and psychology

Note to self, the incredible study cited in positive psychology researcher Shawn Achor’s book The Happiness Advantage. A group of elderly men (former scientists IIRC?) were measured/tested for things like reflexes, eyesight, metabolism, strength, mental acuity, then sequestered for days or weeks at a facility where time was “turned back” to the 1950s, when they had been at the peak of their careers. They were issued work badges with 1950s photos of themselves, newspapers and radio/TV from that era were played, etc. At the end of the study, all the men showed improvement in all the measures they had been tested on, and reported feeling like their younger selves.

[Loren Ver]

To answer your question, I wanted to retire early to enjoy as much of my life as possible outside of work.  My dad died at 54, DHs dad died at 64, both through no fault of their own, so we placed no bets on how long this could be for either of us.  I'm also a second generation early retiree, so it is a bit of a family tradition.  My dad may have died at 54, but he still got 14 years of retirement in before doing so. 

Outside of family, do you spend much time around people from other age groups?  Especially the older set? 

I'm in my 40s, but I have a lot of friends in all ages groups of various ability levels and it has given me what I think is a pretty good view on aging. 

I also teach classes at an assisted living facility.  All kinds of varying abilities there, but no one can live on their own any more.  That doesn't mean they are done living, or even done living a good life.  I teach another class where I am the youngest person, there are a few people in their upper 40s, but most are above 65.  I love that everyone wants to keep learning!  None of these people think they are done.

I do a lot of volunteering with the 70+ set, sometimes we hang out and make blankets for the food pantry because that's something everyone can do, but sometimes we frame houses in 106 degree F heat after a disaster.  Both groups like to tell me I'm like their kid/grandkid.  In my 40s I'm more than happy to let the 20 somethings carry the big buckets of water through the worksites, those things are killer on my shoulders!  Maybe 20 years ago I would have carried all that water!

I travel a lot with my MIL who is in her 70s.  She isn't as fast for spry as when we traveled when she was in her early 60s, but she is still trucking along.  We just plan more stops, enjoy more flowers on the way, sip more drinks, plan more rest days.  Instead of hiking through a ruin we might catch a play instead.  We stay at nicer places instead of roughing it.  And she really hangs on to me if the stairs are open or uneven.  It really doesn't feel like we should just cancel the trip, we just adjusted.  Adjusting includes a daily printed itinerary because she can't remember the details of what we are doing from day to day.  No one is ready to just throw in the towel here either.

I've also had bad.  I've had long lingering death of a college roommate at the ripe old age of 21. Sudden death of parent at 54. Dementia for grandparent.  Brain tumors in FIL 64. Two family member with meningitis age before age 10 (one is nearly blind currently 70s, one has trouble walking currently 40s) .  Etc etc.  So it isn't all roses. But age isn't the main indicator, catastrophic something else is.  The only similarity is having people in my life.  But all of them chose or are choosing to live their best lives or not. 

Go out and see what people of different ages can do, no matter their capacity.  Maybe that will help with the fear or it might not.

Loren

[sui generis]

I'm interested and appreciate the many different types of contributions here. I do want to respond to one question directed at me by several, because it is really surprising to me - the question about me spending time with older people.  In fact, nearly all of my time is spent with people older than me, from 5 years to about 35 years older.  I know almost no one in their 20s or 30s and only occasionally interact with children. 

It probably makes sense that I am around almost exclusively older people.  As a retired person, I have about 5 volunteer "jobs" and, as you might guess, most volunteers are also retired people and most retired people are a lot older than 47.  And my daytime hobbies are also overwhelmingly populated by older people (Pro tip: one of my favorite groups through which I've found a lot of avenues to grow and have fun in FIRE is "Finding Female Friends Over Fifty" aka FFF>50, which I absolutely recommend to engage in hobbies with new friends! And yes, long story but they actually accept women over 40).  So while my closest friends are all within about 5-8 years older than me, and thus feel pretty mysterious about how we get to our late 60s and 70s as well, I do have good friends and acquaintances that are older and interacting with them, working with them and recreating with them is exactly how I got to the questions, concerns and philosphical inquiries I'm sitting with now.

Many of them have become good enough friends that we enjoy small trips, recreation and fun activities together outside of the avenue I met them through. But I don't feel free enough to question them closely, especially because I think they could feel pressured (toxic positivity, brightsiding) to give answers that were more socially acceptable.  Which is fine, I'm not a super close friend and they don't owe it to me to have discussions that can be invasive or uncomfortable.  Just like I wouldn't ask them about their menopause experience.  But on a forum like this, there's no pressure for anyone to respond if they aren't comfortable and I think anonymity does offer a different type of discussion (again, the menopause thread here is just a lovely example).

Of course the people here are not the same as the people I know in real life, and have many different answers and experiences.  It has definitely broadened the types and sources of information and voices to hear from, so it is enlightening in many ways.  And also maybe I will still get close enough to some of those IRL older friends to have heart to hearts with them so I can hear directly from the people that inspired my questions.  And I'll probably start with my mom, once she (hopefully) recovers from her own present situation.

But I'm glad if this thread goes in different directions, all kinds of directions, too.

[Paper Chaser]

I'm interested and appreciate the many different types of contributions here. I do want to respond to one question directed at me by several, because it is really surprising to me - the question about me spending time with older people.  In fact, nearly all of my time is spent with people older than me, from 5 years to about 35 years older.  I know almost no one in their 20s or 30s and only occasionally interact with children. 

It probably makes sense that I am around almost exclusively older people.  As a retired person, I have about 5 volunteer "jobs" and, as you might guess, most volunteers are also retired people and most retired people are a lot older than 47.  And my daytime hobbies are also overwhelmingly populated by older people (Pro tip: one of my favorite groups through which I've found a lot of avenues to grow and have fun in FIRE is "Finding Female Friends Over Fifty" aka FFF>50, which I absolutely recommend to engage in hobbies with new friends! And yes, long story but they actually accept women over 40).  So while my closest friends are all within about 5-8 years older than me, and thus feel pretty mysterious about how we get to our late 60s and 70s as well, I do have good friends and acquaintances that are older and interacting with them, working with them and recreating with them is exactly how I got to the questions, concerns and philosphical inquiries I'm sitting with now.

Many of them have become good enough friends that we enjoy small trips, recreation and fun activities together outside of the avenue I met them through. But I don't feel free enough to question them closely, especially because I think they could feel pressured (toxic positivity, brightsiding) to give answers that were more socially acceptable.  Which is fine, I'm not a super close friend and they don't owe it to me to have discussions that can be invasive or uncomfortable.  Just like I wouldn't ask them about their menopause experience.  But on a forum like this, there's no pressure for anyone to respond if they aren't comfortable and I think anonymity does offer a different type of discussion (again, the menopause thread here is just a lovely example).

Of course the people here are not the same as the people I know in real life, and have many different answers and experiences.  It has definitely broadened the types and sources of information and voices to hear from, so it is enlightening in many ways.  And also maybe I will still get close enough to some of those IRL older friends to have heart to hearts with them so I can hear directly from the people that inspired my questions.  And I'll probably start with my mom, once she (hopefully) recovers from her own present situation.

But I'm glad if this thread goes in different directions, all kinds of directions, too.

I had planned a comment about who you spend time with already, but this bolded part cemented it for me.

People always talk about needing to retire "to" something. Having a goal, or purpose, or project to keep yourself busy can be a lifesaver for many people to avoid boredom and wasting away.

I think aging is kind of similar in that you need something to invest your time and energy into in order to continue feeling good as you decline. If you're only around older people, and are constantly seeing their issues, or in a caretaking role, of course you'll be worried. On some level, you probably realize that as the youngest member of your group you're likely to lose all of those relationships over time. First through declining abilities and then through sickness and eventually death. You have great relationships with great people, but it doesn't seem like a very diverse investment of time/energy. All of your graying eggs are in one basket and time is ticking.

The happiest old people that I know have lots of family in their lives. They're not as capable as they once were, but they're fulfilled in other ways through their diverse social connections. They're engaged with their kids/grandkids/younger neighbors/etc. They of course take care of themselves as best they can, but they also invest into younger people, and in bettering their immediate circle. Those relationships will likely stay pretty constant for the remainder of those individuals' lives, and may expand into new relationships as more grandkids/spouses/etc enter the picture. Contrast that to your current situation where you're the youngest of a group of significantly older people that will only shrink.

You spent decades investing your time and energy into growing a career, growing a stache, etc. If you don't have anything to grow now, I think it's completely understandable that you might feel a bit listless or concerned about the future. Grow something that has a future. Give back in ways that will outlast you. It seems like you don't have younger family in the picture, but maybe a Big Brothers/Sisters role, or setting up a scholarship fund, or volunteering with kids will help to inject some hope for the future to balance out the graying/aging/declining that you're currently surrounded with.

[Fru-Gal]

This guy is doing amazing work talking about TRUE anti-aging, not cosmetics and fakery https://youtu.be/UzoJKCsPGrw?feature=shared

[Fomerly known as something]

I wonder if part of it is in part that aging is something that can’t be fully controlled.  Yes there are things one can do that can keep one healthier, but at the end of the day as of now it’s not controllable.  In that manner I likely stay very positive because I’m happy I’m still alive today.  I’ve had things early on in my life that made me realize I could die at anytime, I also have a job that often has me jumping (specifically last minute work travel issues most often).  It doesn’t make me fully YOLO, but it makes it easier for me to let go of control.  Or at least to control what I can and not worry about what I can’t.

[jrhampt]

I spend a lot of time with older people since I moved to a beach town which has a lot of retirees. Most of the people I socialize with are in their 50s and 60s, with fewer in their mid-late forties like me, and several in their 70s and 80s.  But this is a community full of very active older people mostly on the wealthier end of the spectrum who love the outdoors and take group fitness classes with me regularly at the Y and play pickleball, go cycling, kayaking, and hiking.  We go to happy hours, trivia nights, and the theater and the library, too.  I think aging is a very different experience if you have enough assets to be comfortable and provided for, the leisure to pursue your interests, and the health and discipline to remain as active as your body allows. 

I look up to lots of these people as examples of what I want my older age to be like.  They can't always do what they could when they were 20, but they also have time, money, and freedom now that they didn't have then.  Most of the ladies are happily going grey, wear little to no makeup, wear comfortable shoes because we walk everywhere, and are just very fun people to be around, very comfortable with themselves.  And I am amazed at how active many of them are, too.  I do a ten mile run with women who are mostly in their 50s and 60s.  Some of them walk it, some of them are in stages of knee surgery and recovery, but there are lots of tri-athletes and marathoners among them.  We share skincare tips and menopause management tips, and really don't spend much time worrying about getting old and less lovely because we are too busy having fun, for the most part, or managing aging parents (which is less fun).

I do contrast this with my parents, who live only on social security checks and have never really had assets to speak of or any kind of regular exercise program, and it's just a very very different look at aging.  There is so much that is possible, though, so much improvement that we are capable of even as we get older.  I'm still relatively young and so is my spouse (mid-fifties), but we decided to hike the 48 peaks of NH over 4000 ft this fall.  We started out slow and people passed us, and our knees hurt on the downhills.  But by the end of our list of peaks, we were fast, passing everyone in sight, and our knees were actually strengthened and felt amazing.  I play pickleball with people in their 80s who can still beat the pants off much younger people.  And even if they can't, they're still out there having fun.  The oldest teams usually do the best at trivia nights because they have so much life experience.  So yeah, the end of life is sad and when health issues become acute, especially cognitive ones, it is difficult.  But when you stop being able to do one thing, you switch to something else.  You walk when you can't run, swim when you can't cycle, play pickleball when you can't play tennis, play trivia or volunteer at the theater when you can't swim, I guess. 

And yeah, I look back at old pictures of myself and I was beautiful.  But I am much more comfortable with myself now, wasted so much time agonizing over my body when I was younger.  Today is the youngest and most gorgeous you'll ever be, but so is every day, so enjoy every day.

[partgypsy]

My personal experience. I got a breast cancer diagnosis in perimenopause.  Thankfully caught early enough my option was surgery only with 6 mo mammograms, or surgery+radiation with once a year mammogram. I am also doing the recommended anti-estrogen treatment for 5 years.

Cons I have always looked younger than my age. It has been quite a shock the aging appearance of my face and body from the use of the aromatase inhibitor last 2 years. I never thought of myself as having pretty privilege. Now that I've lost it, I realize I DID (which is a whole revelation). Thankfully my friends and colleagues like my personality so all is not lost :)  The first anti estrogen I was put on, kicked my ass. It would take me an hour process to get out of bed. I felt 70 years old. I requested and was switched to a different one which I am tolerating MUCH better. I still have issues with whole body aches and pain and sleep, but it is doable.

Pluses. I am like an old creaky but reliable machine which protests getting started, but once I start and the more I move, the better I feel. To the point I feel like I actually have better exercise tolerance than I did during most of my life. For example NYE I ran in place for 15 minutes (because I didn't think I'd get to my exercise routine) then went swimming for 30-40 minutes. Later that evening danced for over three hours. And felt fine the next day. 
Before menopause I used to always be somewhat hypoglycemic. I couldn't skip a meal. Cranky if my blood sugar dipped. Low level anxiety, and also (probably because I was borderline anemic) sometimes a racing heart rate.
Post menopause my resting heart rate is 60, I have low breating rate, low blood pressure I rarely get winded. I basically feel more "steady." As far as emotional turbulence my feelings don't get hurt as easily. I appreciate things. I understand my energy is finite and don't try to waste it.
I don't know how unique this is or if other women have experienced similar changes. I understand maybe part or most of these may have to do with keeping active and a decent diet. I am just saying for myself I have noticed both downsides and upsides to being in menopause. 

[Fru-Gal]

I am so sorry you have gone through that diagnosis and recovery. Good for you for changing the estrogen blocker based on your whole body reaction to it. Is it a selective estrogen blocker? Supposedly that only blocks breast tissue from absorbing estrogen.

The pretty privilege thing is such an interesting concept to unpack. It could be useful to think about what parts of your face/body you think no longer are pretty, and how to mitigate that or change your belief system around it. Because I assume you aren’t just saying that “being old” means you (or anyone else) is no longer pretty.

[Fru-Gal]

Pain is so important. It’s a messaging system and we have to figure out what the message is saying. In general, getting older does not mean automatically having more pain.

Aches and pains indicate many things: injuries, weakness in ligaments and tendons and muscles, arthritis, lack of protein, lack of vitamin D and other nutrients, poor muscle quality (loss of fast twitch fibers), lack of flexibility.

Plenty of people report that there is a sudden switch in aging, or a wall that they hit. Often it’s around 70, but the funny thing is that self-reported aging problems can be found at every decade of life. And even among the 70-year-olds, you have people like this guy Michael Kish setting sprint records at 70+!

https://youtu.be/I9EQAGGwS_o?

It’s really important the older you get to let injuries heal all the way, to rest and recover sufficiently, to stretch and warm up, and to prioritize fast twitch, explosive power (plyometrics), and strength training several times a week if possible. And to listen to your body!