Author Topic: Leaving the cities  (Read 7854 times)

BicycleB

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #100 on: August 19, 2020, 03:42:37 PM »
I guess we disagree on the meaning of "historic" then. To me, if nothing of interest to a casual observer happened there, it's not historic. That doesn't mean it's not interesting, but it's not historic any more than my house will be in 100 years.

Again, I agree that it's stupid to burn things down for no reason.

But man, if I was poor, it sure would smart to see rich people spending their money on a museum dedicated to some rich guy and his *furniture and possessions*. From that perspective, I could see wanting to burn it down.

-W

If I felt I was poor because of racism and the old guy had made his profits from it, I could imagine feeling that way too. But it would still be wrong (as you said).

In addition, I myself feel that preserving the treasures of a bygone era is historical. Also preserving examples of a way of life is historical; future generations may have no idea what it's like just to live today. We're their history. Somebody's iphones (think of it! a device outside your body, just to perform the functions of your brain's InterNetLinkImplant!) may be the most distinctive thing about our era, fascinating and eye-opening to future children. Meanwhile I greatly appreciate @iris lily's desire to preserve history from 100 years ago.

(on the side: imagining that our discussion of history must provoke chuckles and eye rolls from people in some of the countries with longer histories. At least we should preserve what we have.)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 03:44:24 PM by BicycleB »

waltworks

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2020, 03:45:40 PM »
Yeah, in Europe (let alone China) you can find structures where the events that shaped our world happened, still standing.

The other issue that Victorian mansions are a dime a dozen in every city in the East and Midwest. Maybe we should pick one and make it a museum (actually, I'm sure dozens of them already are) and let the rest go.

-W

EvenSteven

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2020, 03:47:19 PM »
Don’t feel too bad, Walt. Iris lily says I can’t live in her neighborhood, either.

Abe

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2020, 11:11:28 PM »
I’ve lived in rural towns and several cities of varying crime levels. Generally I have found that they are not homogenous cesspools or glorious utopias, but a spectrum of in-between states. The neighborhoods also change over time organically. Chicago is a good example: people used to want to live away from downtown in my old neighborhood, and downtown was a big industrial livestock slaughterhouse. Then the city burnt down and all of that got thrown into the lake, a new park was made and over time people wanted to live near it. My neighborhood became a dump for several decades, but now is being re-gentrified. I’d say in general most places in the US are not great to live in due to significant inequality, but that includes both cities and rural areas. People who run away expecting to find a magical utopia worth their money will be searching a long time.

Getting to the article - the author seems quite arrogant and self-centered. He may just not like being around people, and should live in a rural area. I don’t think his experience has any long-term relevance to national trends. I do think that city living in general
is over-priced, and those economic forces are driving people out. That’s not going to be significantly affected by short term riots or a few burned buildings (unless it’s your house that burned).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 11:16:26 PM by Abe »

iris lily

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2020, 09:22:08 AM »
Don’t feel too bad, Walt. Iris lily says I can’t live in her neighborhood, either.
Hmmmm, maybe.

If you know anyone in Lafayette Square who can vouch for you, we might let you in.
:)

iris lily

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2020, 09:28:13 AM »
I guess we disagree on the meaning of "historic" then. To me, if nothing of interest to a casual observer happened there, it's not historic. That doesn't mean it's not interesting, but it's not historic any more than my house will be in 100 years.

Again, I agree that it's stupid to burn things down for no reason.

But man, if I was poor, it sure would smart to see rich people spending their money on a museum dedicated to some rich guy and his *furniture and possessions*. From that perspective, I could see wanting to burn it down.

-W

If I felt I was poor because of racism and the old guy had made his profits from it, I could imagine feeling that way too....

Yes I had this conversation with another supporter of Campbell House. We both agree that the rioters really had no idea that Robert Campbell was the 1% percent of his time. They were just random fuckheads burning down shit.

As for the definition of “historical “ I’m not gonna dignify that discussion with my involvement. It makes me laugh. OK , whatever, you guys are amusing.

I agree with you that our focus on Preservation of 250 year old man-made structures is quaint when compared to structures hundreds and thousands of years old in Europe and the rest of the world. But hey it’s all we’ve  got. Well, we also have mounds.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:31:39 AM by iris lily »

waltworks

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2020, 09:41:56 AM »
Is it the fur trader guy?

http://www.campbellhousemuseum.org/

"While Robert supported the right of men to own slaves, he himself had emancipated his final slave several years before. In 1857, Robert freed his slave Eliza and her two sons, apparently because his wife Virginia had grown distasteful of the institution."

"Campbell was influential enough that he was elected as President of the Conditional Unionists at a city convention on January 12, 1861. The convention voted to support slavery as a constitutional right, and urging the Federal government to restrain from using force during the crisis."

That's in the context of the civil war, too, not the founding of the US, so it's quite a bit harder to justify. Leader of a group that advocated making having slaves a constitutional right? Even in the context of trying to prevent war from breaking out, that's... bad.

Still, reading through, it sounds like the dude was involved in enough frontier wars and politics that he's solidly a historic figure. So I retract my "not historic" comment. Hopefully the museum has some information about his slaves and his involvement in advocating for slavery.

I doubt the folks trying to burn it knew any of that, but then again, maybe they did. Guy owned slaves, advocated putting slavery in the constitution, ran a fur trading business, and spent a lot of time fighting native americans. You can find plenty of people who don't think highly of any of that.

-W
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:55:28 AM by waltworks »

iris lily

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #107 on: August 20, 2020, 09:52:27 AM »
Is it the fur trader guy?

http://www.campbellhousemuseum.org/

"While Robert supported the right of men to own slaves, he himself had emancipated his final slave several years before. In 1857, Robert freed his slave Eliza and her two sons, apparently because his wife Virginia had grown distasteful of the institution."

-W

Yes that is him. Virginia was from the South so it is extra significant that she eschewed slave ownership.

waltworks

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #108 on: August 20, 2020, 09:56:28 AM »
Good on Virginia! The Conditional Unionist thing is really, really bad, though.

-W

ministashy

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #109 on: August 24, 2020, 05:29:44 AM »
Beau of the Fifth Column recently did a video about the idea that Democratic-run cities are cesspools of crime and violence: https://youtu.be/CzanDzmqbwg

Cassie

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #110 on: August 24, 2020, 12:38:00 PM »
Original house and furnishings are hard to come by. What a shame it was destroyed. Ugh!

iris lily

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #111 on: August 24, 2020, 12:42:59 PM »
Original house and furnishings are hard to come by. What a shame it was destroyed. Ugh!
It was not destroyed.

Abe

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #112 on: August 24, 2020, 01:57:51 PM »
Beau of the Fifth Column recently did a video about the idea that Democratic-run cities are cesspools of crime and violence: https://youtu.be/CzanDzmqbwg


Interesting video. Also interesting is the ad right before it was some nutbag trying to claim that countries that were most affected by COVID-19 are the most infiltrated by the Chinese Communist Party, thus showing that COVID-19 was a Chinese bioweapon gone wrong. Some straight-up McCarthy nonsense. Weird ad algorithm...

GuitarStv

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #113 on: August 24, 2020, 05:02:25 PM »
Beau of the Fifth Column recently did a video about the idea that Democratic-run cities are cesspools of crime and violence: https://youtu.be/CzanDzmqbwg


Interesting video. Also interesting is the ad right before it was some nutbag trying to claim that countries that were most affected by COVID-19 are the most infiltrated by the Chinese Communist Party, thus showing that COVID-19 was a Chinese bioweapon gone wrong. Some straight-up McCarthy nonsense. Weird ad algorithm...

Seems like they know their audience.  :P

BicycleB

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Re: Leaving the cities
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2020, 02:07:45 PM »
It looks like OP will have room in her new town. The masses are mostly staying put, according to the article below. Individual cities have various trends, but as a group, there is little exodus so far. The majority of people leaving one city have been moving to another instead of to towns/rural areas.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-16/the-truth-about-american-migration-during-covid