Is Trump a Relationship Deal Breaker?

[wildbeast]

Donald Trump Is The New Relationship Deal Breaker
"I learned that my experience was not unique. I wasn't upset because my fella and I had political views that were not 100% aligned. What concerned me was that, in order to have said views, he must be operating by a set of values that differ so fundamentally from mine that they are almost incompatible."
By
Krista Banasiak, Contributor
Academic, activist, and artist.

If you feel strongly about Trump - one way or the other, I guess - would you be able to maintain a relationship with someone who feels the opposite?  Or would he be a deal breaker?

And not just romantic relationships, but friendships, family, etc...

[wildbeast]

@Glenstache - Thanks!

[John Galt incarnate!]

Donald Trump Is The New Relationship Deal Breaker
"I learned that my experience was not unique. I wasn't upset because my fella and I had political views that were not 100% aligned. What concerned me was that, in order to have said views, he must be operating by a set of values that differ so fundamentally from mine that they are almost incompatible."
By
Krista Banasiak, Contributor
Academic, activist, and artist.

If you feel strongly about Trump - one way or the other, I guess - would you be able to maintain a relationship with someone who feels the opposite?  Or would he be a deal breaker?

And not just romantic relationships, but friendships, family, etc...

 In any arena in which choice is possible freedom to choose is the polestar of a free people who live in a free society such as America.

My embrace and advancement of this principle means that one's choice of party or candidate will   never affect my relationship with them.

Choice is the concomitant of liberty.

[DoubleDown]

I abhor Trump and the values (or lack of, to be more exact) he represents, but I didn't vote because for me too much depends on the relationship in question. If a person has enough redeeming qualities on their own, then perhaps I can look past their support of Trump. I wouldn't be likely to form a close relationship or friendship with anyone who actively supports racism, locking up children, white supremacy, lying, destroying the environment, corruption, wooing dictators, destroying democracy and norms, and all the other things Trump displays. But I'll say that many of the Trump supporters I know (and even love) are woefully ignorant about Trump's debasing behavior. I don't approve of their ignorance, of course, but they are not bad people.

[Metalcat]

"Relationship" as in deep, respectful bond? Or do we mean "relationship" meaning person we're expected to sustain a sexual attraction to?

Because if it's the second, then yeah, that would be a distinct problem for me.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Wouldn’t ever date a DT supporter. Ever. Wouldn’t make new friends with a DT supporter. No one in my family is insane enough to be a DT supporter. So, only DT supporters in my life are old friends from high school (not college and beyond). The heavy supporters I removed from my social media, the light ones I’ve kept. Grew up with these people and accepted some of their racism and Dumb ass religious-inspired views years ago. Btw, none are close friends really but they have a soft-spot cause we were all babies together.

[norajean]

Opposites attract.

[partgypsy]

I answered yes it's a dealbreaker, referring to romantic relationships. As far as friends, probably wouldn't make new friends with people who are trump supporters. I have a few facebook friends such as nice teachers of my kids whom I continue to feel warmly about and simply do the don't ask don't tell regarding politics.

There was actually a falling out between one relative (actually a husband wife couple who are not only Trump supporters but kind of fascist in their views), with that husband and wife, with the rest of that side of my (Greek) family. I did not mean for it to happen, but in a sense I was the instigator because she friended me on Facebook, and I ended up commenting on a couple of her posts. I was pointing out things for example that were conspiracy theories (referencing her to Snopes), but still being respectful (after all she is an older relative) but her comments back, were pretty bad and rude (calling me stupid and ignorant, among other things). I realized she was way more invested than I was and stopped responding, but my other relatives saw it and they were very upset and saw the attacks on me beyond the pale (both the politics, and the lack of civility). My Greek relatives are pretty mainstream and socially conservative. I always assumed my aunt and uncle were Republican (he's a businessman and both he and my Dad voted for Reagan). Who knows maybe they were Republican, but not any more. The disagreement is so bad, it has also isolated this cousin from people in the "old" country in Greece. The husband of said couple was talking to a cousin in Greece after Trump was elected, going on about immigrants. The Greek cousin then asked point blank, do you support Trump? And the guy affirmed he did. And the cousin in Greece said "Well then, we have nothing further to say" and they have not spoken since (ending a 50 year relationship).

Anyways this situation is highly not normal. There are definitely times I have gotten worked up about politics. So have relatives. But I have never seen anything like this.   

 

[LetItGrow]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

[Metalcat]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

Interesting.
The decisions made by elected officials have had significant, direct impacts on my life, especially recently. They've also had enormous impacts on the business owners I've advised over the years.

So I definitely don't consider them irrelevant.

[mountain mustache]

I would not enter into a relationship with someone who supports Trump, whether or not they are aware of all of the terrible things he stands for. We would literally have nothing in common. Personal ethics and moral compass are extremely important to me for my own life, and it is important to me that the person I am in a relationship with aligns with me on the big issues.

I have family members and acquaintances that I have known my whole life who are "silent supporters" of Trump and of course they are still my family and I love them and wouldn't stop talking to them. But, I am not going to talk about politics with them, and generally keep things at a surface level.

[RetiredAt63]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

Interesting.
The decisions made by elected officials have had significant, direct impacts on my life, especially recently. They've also had enormous impacts on the business owners I've advised over the years.

So I definitely don't consider them irrelevant.

Every time I read "no significant direct impact" I hear privilege. 

[Metalcat]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

Interesting.
The decisions made by elected officials have had significant, direct impacts on my life, especially recently. They've also had enormous impacts on the business owners I've advised over the years.

So I definitely don't consider them irrelevant.

Every time I read "no significant direct impact" I hear privilege.

Perhaps, although I have known plenty an under privileged person who has felt the same way about politics, as if it has no bearing on them.

I think it's quite common for people to have no real sense of how various levels of government directly affect them.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

Interesting.
The decisions made by elected officials have had significant, direct impacts on my life, especially recently. They've also had enormous impacts on the business owners I've advised over the years.

So I definitely don't consider them irrelevant.

Every time I read "no significant direct impact" I hear privilege.

It must be so lovely going through life, without worrying about the impact of politics or losing your rights. So much agree with @RetiredAt63

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I would not enter into a relationship with someone who supports Trump, whether or not they are aware of all of the terrible things he stands for. We would literally have nothing in common. Personal ethics and moral compass are extremely important to me for my own life, and it is important to me that the person I am in a relationship with aligns with me on the big issues.

I have family members and acquaintances that I have known my whole life who are "silent supporters" of Trump and of course they are still my family and I love them and wouldn't stop talking to them. But, I am not going to talk about politics with them, and generally keep things at a surface level.

Yes to the top paragraph, absolutely. For the second paragraph, I'm finding it harder & harder to not see an intersection between actions & silent support. My husband is a minority (as are our kids) & my tolerance for silent support is dwindling.

[John Galt incarnate!]

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. .

Agree.

Hatred is a negative passion.

[Bloop Bloop]

Relationships and friendships, yes it's an instant deal breaker.

Mind you I live in Australia and very few people support Trump.

To me, it's not about politics per se. There are quite a few conservative policies that I support (mainly the neoliberal economic ones). Therefore I would have not too much trouble being friends with, or even dating, someone who would vote Republican if she lived in the U.S., as long as I felt it was for financial reasons and not due to the weird social conservatism you Yanks have going on. But anyway, the reason I have a problem with Trump is his casually, overtly, sexist, misogynist, racist, imperialist, nationalist, fascist attitudes. Plus he's rude, and a boor, and he boasts. I cannot approve of that. It is not the politics but the personality and the anti-intellectualism that turns me off.

[Villanelle]

Someone who actually *supports* him?  I don't think I could respect that person which means I couldn't have anything more than the most casual of friendships with them.  I have to be able to respect my friends--maybe not every individual decision, but overall respect them. 

[RetiredAt63]

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. .

Agree.

Hatred is a negative passion.

He's not my President and I don't  hate him.  I didn't hate Harper either, but I sure hated his policies.  Trump as a person disgusts me, and I hate his policies.

[FINate]

If it's 24x7 "MAGA MAGA MAGA" then this would be a problem for me because I think politics shouldn't be the main thing in life. I'd feel the same about someone overly enthusiastic about Biden, or any other politician.

I really don't care who my friends and family vote for as long as they do so thoughtfully, with the knowledge that every politician is a mixed bag bought and paid for by their handlers, and that it's not about hitching your ego to your party.

[six-car-habit]

 My wife voted for him. This was after i had shown her several in depth articles concerning his tax shenanigans, stormy daniels type allegations, discrimination against minority rental applicants, stonewalling courts and destroying documents realted to those cases, etc.

   She had a real aversion to H Clinton , i believe based on several conspiracy theory/ conservative commentator type podcasts she had been [ and maybe still is] listening to. 

   One thing she honed in on was 'illegal immigration' as something she was pissed about. When i tried to get her to quantify what type of $$ costs she thinks she directly bore for the 'care and feeding' of said immigrants,  [ because frankly they weren't about to take her job ] she agreed it was probably minimal [ like maybe $10 annually ].  We have a decent sized Central american Hispanic community in our town. Whom had recently built a church here. I suggested if there were any illegals, they were likely to attend the churches services there - so we could go there on a Sunday, and my kid and i would go inside and meet some of the congregants and stay for the service - and she could stay in the car and write down license plate #'s to turn into INS/ DHS.  She declined and nothing came of it. Maybe this was crass of me to suggest, but i felt i needed to 'call her bluff' as it were.

  So, now it's about 4 years later, and i've pointed out a few of the policy decisions [ paris climate accords, iran nuke deal, OASDI deferment, stonewalling congressional investigators with the whole executive department, etc ]  and various lies and misinformation he's peddled throughout this time -- and i get a sourpuss face in response , and can't engage her in talking about these things farther in depth.
And i go a few months between each mention, so it's not that i am inundating her with potential argument material.  She's said several times, she wants corruption rooted out whichever party or person commits it .

  We have several mutual interests, and she is a good mom to our kid, and honest in her business dealings. We are good partners and friends, but the romance area leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe that is a function of age though [?]

   I'm curious to ask, but also dreading the answer, whether she will will vote for trump again.

[MilesTeg]

Trump Supporters fall primarily into three categories. IMO:

1 People who recognize what he is and like it
2 People who recognize what he is, and choose to ignore it for political reasons
3 Whackjobs who believe he is the leader of a holy war against satan worshipping, cannibal pedophiles (all of whom are conveniently the other "tribe")

None of those groups are the type of people I want to associate with.

[Rdy2Fire]

No. No political person, party or support, would be a deal breaker.

UNLESS they were so far to either side where it's all they think about, talk about etc. I don't really care who someone supports and if they want to speak about it, not that they need to, and can make their points, reasons for support in a constructive conversation then I am all for it

[GuitarStv]

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. .

Agree.

Hatred is a negative passion.

He's not my President and I don't  hate him.  I didn't hate Harper either, but I sure hated his policies.  Trump as a person disgusts me, and I hate his policies.

Yep.

I don't hate Trump.  I hope he recovers from the disease that his continued risky behaviour caused him to get.  As a person, Trump's indefensibly terrible and not someone that many of us would like to have regular dealings with.  As a 'leader' he's laughably bad (or would be if it wasn't for the power of his position).

It's possible to dislike a person for who they show themselves to be and to dislike a leader for failure after failure without any hatred being involved.

[Loretta]

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY. 

:)

[Fishindude]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

I'm pretty much onboard with this line of thinking.   There have been several presidents in my lifetime that I didn't care for but none of them seriously affected my life.   This one or the next one won't either.
If you didn't learn anything from that debate the other night, you should have at least seen that solutions to issues in your life are not going to be fixed by the folks in DC.

This thread also points out how rude, hateful and hard headed the anti Trump crowd is.  A whole bunch of threads and posts throughout this forum focused on nothing but outright hate for Trump, but I've yet to see one against Biden.   Pretty hypocritical how the anti DT crowd calls out DT all the time as being hateful, racist, etc. while all they do is spew hate for him and anybody that supports him.

[RetiredAt63]

^^Maybe because Trump calls out hate where Biden doesn't?   Hate for Mexicans, hate for losers, hate for anyone he doesn't like? 

[mountain mustache]

I would not enter into a relationship with someone who supports Trump, whether or not they are aware of all of the terrible things he stands for. We would literally have nothing in common. Personal ethics and moral compass are extremely important to me for my own life, and it is important to me that the person I am in a relationship with aligns with me on the big issues.

I have family members and acquaintances that I have known my whole life who are "silent supporters" of Trump and of course they are still my family and I love them and wouldn't stop talking to them. But, I am not going to talk about politics with them, and generally keep things at a surface level.

Yes to the top paragraph, absolutely. For the second paragraph, I'm finding it harder & harder to not see an intersection between actions & silent support. My husband is a minority (as are our kids) & my tolerance for silent support is dwindling.

It's really difficult. Most of my family are also evangelical christians, and I'm an atheist. They are anti-vaxxers, and I believe in science. They believe essential oils cure cancer, and I just think they smell good. We are so polarized in our fundamental beliefs that it can be difficult to find a middle ground. But, at least my parents do make an effort to understand where I am coming from, and they are more single issue voters (pro-life and they also feel like trump was good for the economy pre-covid). My mom vocally dislikes the way that Trump acts, especially towards women/minorities, but for some reason can't bring herself to vote for Biden. We agree to disagree. But, if I shunned all of my family that supported Trump, silently or vocally, I'd have almost 0 family members or support.

[mountain mustache]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

I'm pretty much onboard with this line of thinking.   There have been several presidents in my lifetime that I didn't care for but none of them seriously affected my life.   This one or the next one won't either.
If you didn't learn anything from that debate the other night, you should have at least seen that solutions to issues in your life are not going to be fixed by the folks in DC.

This thread also points out how rude, hateful and hard headed the anti Trump crowd is.  A whole bunch of threads and posts throughout this forum focused on nothing but outright hate for Trump, but I've yet to see one against Biden.   Pretty hypocritical how the anti DT crowd calls out DT all the time as being hateful, racist, etc. while all they do is spew hate for him and anybody that supports him.

I just read back through this thread, and I'm having a hard time finding the "rude and hateful" remarks. I see a lot of true remarks about who DJT actually is, what he says and how he behaves. Those things are hard to read, but that doesn't make them rude or hateful.

I don't hate DJT, or anyone. I don't want him to die of Covid, and I hope he has a quick recovery. But I also believe that actions have consequences. Being immoral and unethical should have consequences. Plenty of politicians (and regular ol' people) believe similarly to DJT, but he is the *most* vocal, and also lies through his teeth about anything and everything every chance he gets. That is not a hateful statement, that is just the truth.

I would not want to be in a close relationship (romantic or friendship) with anyone who thinks it is ok to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic, won't denounce white supremacy, etc etc. Because even silently supporting someone who believes or is these things IS saying that those things are ok.

[OtherJen]

All politicians are irrelevant to me and have a negligible impact on my life, no matter what they do. I’ve lived all over the country and can’t recall a single politician having a lasting impact. Sure, I have to roll with new this and new that, all temporary.

In my opinion, the hate for the current president is unhealthy for you. It is laughable to me to see all the hypocrisy of the hate that is spewed here at times. Trump is trump, will be trump. In four years and a couple months no matter what he will be in the history books. I think the real worry is Congress and how inept they seem to be.

I will say a deal breaker to me is someone who blindly follows anything or anyone.

I'm pretty much onboard with this line of thinking.   There have been several presidents in my lifetime that I didn't care for but none of them seriously affected my life.   This one or the next one won't either.
If you didn't learn anything from that debate the other night, you should have at least seen that solutions to issues in your life are not going to be fixed by the folks in DC.

This thread also points out how rude, hateful and hard headed the anti Trump crowd is.  A whole bunch of threads and posts throughout this forum focused on nothing but outright hate for Trump, but I've yet to see one against Biden.   Pretty hypocritical how the anti DT crowd calls out DT all the time as being hateful, racist, etc. while all they do is spew hate for him and anybody that supports him.

I just read back through this thread, and I'm having a hard time finding the "rude and hateful" remarks. I see a lot of true remarks about who DJT actually is, what he says and how he behaves. Those things are hard to read, but that doesn't make them rude or hateful.

I don't hate DJT, or anyone. I don't want him to die of Covid, and I hope he has a quick recovery. But I also believe that actions have consequences. Being immoral and unethical should have consequences. Plenty of politicians (and regular ol' people) believe similarly to DJT, but he is the *most* vocal, and also lies through his teeth about anything and everything every chance he gets. That is not a hateful statement, that is just the truth.

I would not want to be in a close relationship (romantic or friendship) with anyone who thinks it is ok to be misogynistic, racist, homophobic, won't denounce white supremacy, etc etc. Because even silently supporting someone who believes or is these things IS saying that those things are ok.

All of this. I don't want anyone to die of COVID-19, and we're already losing approximately a 9/11-level amount of US lives every 3 days while being told by the White House that this is an overblown liberal hoax.

I sincerely hope that Trump and his inner circle will learn some humility during his recovery (although I doubt it).

I have several Trump supporters in my extended family. I love them dearly and haven't disowned them, but it's brought into stark relief how little we have in common besides genetics and geographic proximity. Since I can choose my friends, I tend to prefer those with moral and ethical values similar to mine (e.g., lying is wrong, cheating is wrong, racism/sexism/homophobia are wrong, white supremacy is terrorism).

[jinga nation]

The Conway's are a great example of a Republican couple with opposing views. "Opposites attract" - maybe initially but over the long term repel their offspring.
Any fringe opinion holder (neo-liberal/neo-fascist) is a no-no for me in any relationship, be it personal or business. I got 99 problems, I don't need a new one which sucks 90% of the oxygen in the room.

[DoubleDown]

Trump Supporters fall primarily into three categories. IMO:

1 People who recognize what he is and like it
2 People who recognize what he is, and choose to ignore it for political reasons
3 Whackjobs who believe he is the leader of a holy war against satan worshipping, cannibal pedophiles (all of whom are conveniently the other "tribe")

None of those groups are the type of people I want to associate with.

I'd add one other sizable group:

4. People who, out of ignorance (willful, even), don't recognize what he is and support him for political reasons

Just about everyone in my family who is a Trump supporter falls into this category. I'll ask them, "Doesn't it bother you that Trump [insert massive outrage here]?" They'll say, "I don't know about that" or "I haven't heard about that" or "I don't follow the news, it's all so depressing", or some other variation. But, they support him and will vote for him again because he's against abortion, because he doesn't want to take away our guns like the Democrats, because he's "law and order", because he's a good businessman (yeah, right), because he's not a Socialist like Biden, and so on.

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

[MDM]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

[former player]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, as that article demonstrates Trump's got a repeating pattern of supporting white supremacists and then coming out with a pro forma denunciation a day or two later to dull the outrage.

[OtherJen]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, as that article demonstrates Trump's got a repeating pattern of supporting white supremacists and then coming out with a pro forma denunciation a day or two later to dull the outrage.

It does make his denunciations much less credible. Decent people are able to denounce white supremacy immediately, without having to think about it/be shamed into it for a day or two.

[MDM]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, as that article demonstrates Trump's got a repeating pattern of supporting white supremacists and then coming out with a pro forma denunciation a day or two later to dull the outrage.

Trump's "and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" was not "a day or two later." ;)

As the article in USA Today (Joe Biden launched his campaign by lying about Donald Trump) notes, "Trump's condemnation of Neo-Nazis and White nationalists sparks widespread amnesia on the left."

[MrThatsDifferent]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, as that article demonstrates Trump's got a repeating pattern of supporting white supremacists and then coming out with a pro forma denunciation a day or two later to dull the outrage.

AKA spin.

[OtherJen]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, as that article demonstrates Trump's got a repeating pattern of supporting white supremacists and then coming out with a pro forma denunciation a day or two later to dull the outrage.

Trump's "and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" was not "a day or two later." ;)

As the article in USA Today (Joe Biden launched his campaign by lying about Donald Trump) notes, "Trump's condemnation of Neo-Nazis and White nationalists sparks widespread amnesia on the left."

FYI, that's an opinion piece, not actual news reporting.

[Tass]

Not a dealbreaker for bonds that aren't close, though it has harmed some of those indirectly as I try to engage people in conversation. We aren't estranged, but certainly chillier than before.

For close bonds, I have no problems with disagreement when we can both explain our thinking in a rationally and morally acceptable way. Unfortunately, I have literally never encountered a Trump supporter capable of this, despite trying to seek them out (though I acknowledge this is limited by my social circle). I can't imagine a defense of Trump that is both rational and moral, though I would be curious to hear it if it were offered. So in practice, it is a dealbreaker for close relationships.

Luckily for me, all the conservatives I am closest to have turned out to be Never Trumpers - which reinforces my impression that there is no legitimate defense.

[DoubleDown]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, I've heard this (extremely weak IMO) defense from you and others before on this issue, but it doesn't matter because it misses the larger point. The point was the people I'm discussing weren't even aware that there was a large white supremacist rally where a young woman was murdered, or that most of the populace was outraged by Trump's "both sides" statement. Thus, they are not informed at all to form any kind of opinion whether or not Trump is racist or deserves support. I mean, you could choose whatever outrage you want: impeachment, tax evasion, pussy-grabbing locking up immigrant children...; the people I'm discussing would be only vaguely aware, if at all, that any of these events even occurred. And they're not a small minority IMO.

[Villanelle]

Trump Supporters fall primarily into three categories. IMO:

1 People who recognize what he is and like it
2 People who recognize what he is, and choose to ignore it for political reasons
3 Whackjobs who believe he is the leader of a holy war against satan worshipping, cannibal pedophiles (all of whom are conveniently the other "tribe")

None of those groups are the type of people I want to associate with.

I'd add one other sizable group:

4. People who, out of ignorance (willful, even), don't recognize what he is and support him for political reasons

Just about everyone in my family who is a Trump supporter falls into this category. I'll ask them, "Doesn't it bother you that Trump [insert massive outrage here]?" They'll say, "I don't know about that" or "I haven't heard about that" or "I don't follow the news, it's all so depressing", or some other variation. But, they support him and will vote for him again because he's against abortion, because he doesn't want to take away our guns like the Democrats, because he's "law and order", because he's a good businessman (yeah, right), because he's not a Socialist like Biden, and so on.

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

But they know know about all those things, and still support him, so...

I don't buy that there are people who support him who don't know that he's quite racist and is positively inclined toward white supremacists.  There are people who pretend not to know, but it's not plausible to me that 99.9% of people don't know.  They just choose not to think about it.  Those people might not be actively racist themselves, but they are racist enough to believe that other things outweigh his very extreme views on race and racists.

That said, I think there is a difference--albeit a small one--between supporting Trump and voting for him.  There are people who don't support him and are at least uncomfortable with his racist, misogynistic, bullying, crass, disrespectful, anti-military views.  They just aren't uncomfortable enough to vote for anyone else.  IMO, it's still not okay, but it is a differentiation that I do make. 

[MDM]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, I've heard this (extremely weak IMO) defense from you and others before on this issue, but it doesn't matter because it misses the larger point. The point was the people I'm discussing weren't even aware that there was a large white supremacist rally where a young woman was murdered, or that most of the populace was outraged by Trump's "both sides" statement. Thus, they are not informed at all to form any kind of opinion whether or not Trump is racist or deserves support. I mean, you could choose whatever outrage you want: impeachment, tax evasion, pussy-grabbing locking up immigrant children...; the people I'm discussing would be only vaguely aware, if at all, that any of these events even occurred. And they're not a small minority IMO.

If your opinion is that what was actually said is less accurate than what was reportedly said, we might not agree on other things as well. :)

[GuitarStv]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, I've heard this (extremely weak IMO) defense from you and others before on this issue, but it doesn't matter because it misses the larger point. The point was the people I'm discussing weren't even aware that there was a large white supremacist rally where a young woman was murdered, or that most of the populace was outraged by Trump's "both sides" statement. Thus, they are not informed at all to form any kind of opinion whether or not Trump is racist or deserves support. I mean, you could choose whatever outrage you want: impeachment, tax evasion, pussy-grabbing locking up immigrant children...; the people I'm discussing would be only vaguely aware, if at all, that any of these events even occurred. And they're not a small minority IMO.

If your opinion is that what was actually said is less accurate than what was reportedly said, we might not agree on other things as well. :)

WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out antifa and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland? Are you prepared to specifically do that?

TRUMP: Sure, I'm prepared to do that. But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. If you look, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Then do it, sir.

BIDEN: Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them? What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead — who would you like me to condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacists, white supremacists and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what: Somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left. Because this is not a right-wing problem — this is a left-wing problem.

?

[MDM]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, I've heard this (extremely weak IMO) defense from you and others before on this issue, but it doesn't matter because it misses the larger point. The point was the people I'm discussing weren't even aware that there was a large white supremacist rally where a young woman was murdered, or that most of the populace was outraged by Trump's "both sides" statement. Thus, they are not informed at all to form any kind of opinion whether or not Trump is racist or deserves support. I mean, you could choose whatever outrage you want: impeachment, tax evasion, pussy-grabbing locking up immigrant children...; the people I'm discussing would be only vaguely aware, if at all, that any of these events even occurred. And they're not a small minority IMO.

If your opinion is that what was actually said is less accurate than what was reportedly said, we might not agree on other things as well. :)

WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out antifa and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland? Are you prepared to specifically do that?

TRUMP: Sure, I'm prepared to do that. But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. If you look, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Then do it, sir.

BIDEN: Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them? What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead — who would you like me to condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacists, white supremacists and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what: Somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left. Because this is not a right-wing problem — this is a left-wing problem.

?

??

[nick663]

I think it would depend very much on why they're supporting him along with the nature of the relationship between us.  The only one for sure that would be a deal breaker regarding any contact are the Qanon/conspiracy theory types.  That level of stupidity has no place in my life.

[Luck12]

Politics (especially in an era where the major parties are further apart than they've just about ever been) is largely a reflection of your personal values.   So yeah it's a deal breaker for all relationships (romantic, friendship, family).  I don't even talk to a sibling who supports him (he supports him for odious reasons).  Perhaps this makes me a terrible person, but I would go as far as to say if I read of someone dying and that person supported him I'd consider it a net positive for the world that that person is no longer alive.  I believe almost all who support him agree with his thinking and/or would act the way he does if they had power and $$ thereby making them assholes.   

[LennStar]

More the other way around.

Here in Germany the only people who like him are those I would never want to be with. Like Neonazis and "Just because so many people and elected party officials in our party say racist things doesn't mean we are a racist party!" AfD. 

[GuitarStv]

I mean, I've even asked, "What about his 'There are good people on both sides' comment after the Charlottesville white supremacist rally?" To my astonishment, these people had never even heard of the rally and death of the woman run over by a white supremacist, let alone Trump's dismissal of it. It was big f'ing national news for at least a week, but they were clueless about it!

Perhaps you could show them Trump Has Condemned White Supremacists - FactCheck.org.

Yes, I've heard this (extremely weak IMO) defense from you and others before on this issue, but it doesn't matter because it misses the larger point. The point was the people I'm discussing weren't even aware that there was a large white supremacist rally where a young woman was murdered, or that most of the populace was outraged by Trump's "both sides" statement. Thus, they are not informed at all to form any kind of opinion whether or not Trump is racist or deserves support. I mean, you could choose whatever outrage you want: impeachment, tax evasion, pussy-grabbing locking up immigrant children...; the people I'm discussing would be only vaguely aware, if at all, that any of these events even occurred. And they're not a small minority IMO.

If your opinion is that what was actually said is less accurate than what was reportedly said, we might not agree on other things as well. :)

WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out antifa and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland? Are you prepared to specifically do that?

TRUMP: Sure, I'm prepared to do that. But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. If you look, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Then do it, sir.

BIDEN: Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them? What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead — who would you like me to condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacists, white supremacists and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what: Somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left. Because this is not a right-wing problem — this is a left-wing problem.

?

??

When asked the super duper softball question of whether or not he would denounce racists, he not only failed to do this . . . but he told them in his own words to stand back and get ready for further orders.

[MDM]

When asked the super duper softball question of whether or not he would denounce racists, he not only failed to do this . . . but he told them in his own words to stand back and get ready for further orders.

Ha ha ha!  "Further orders"??!  Sounds QAnon-ish.... ;)

If we're going to parse "stand back and stand by" into something nefarious, there's a trove of Biden's remarks just waiting for similar treatment, but playing "gotcha" isn't helpful from either side.

Trump did whiff on the opportunity to rebuke Wallace for the Charlottesville question.  Don't know whether his prep team didn't prep him, or he just forgot, but it should have been an expected question and he should have been prepared with something like "Chris, what part of 'neo-Nazis and the white nationalists...should be condemned totally' did you not understand, and why do you continue to misreport that?"

[Just Joe]

We're stuck with our family of Trump supporters. Maybe someday they will understand him more objectively. They typically just parrot FoxNews. A couple have left me quite guarded as they may have revealed themselves to be closet racists. We've become quite protective of a LGBTQ teen in the family. I don't fear for their physical safety but I don't want the teen to experience a firehose of vitriol from a couple of these individuals.

Would never date a Trump supporter. Quit a few friends back when Barack Obama was elected b/c these people I knew to be educated, thoughtful people turned hateful and easily influenced by rumors spread about Obama by people like Trump. We tried to hang on but slowly backed out and became scarce. These friendships were never repaired and their opinions voiced on social media seem only loosely connected to reality.

We need to be surrounded by people who value truth and objectivity. DoubleDown's list hit all the right points: "I wouldn't be likely to form a close relationship or friendship with anyone who actively supports racism, locking up children, white supremacy, lying, destroying the environment, corruption, wooing dictators, destroying democracy and norms, and all the other things Trump displays."