Author Topic: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.  (Read 15501 times)

nereo

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I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« on: May 04, 2015, 11:53:51 AM »
Ever have one of those moments when you disgust yourself?

Over the weekend we took advantage of the beautiful weather to do some hiking and ended at a local brewery.  While waiting for our pints a guy, maybe 28 years old, drove up in a brand new Porsche 911 Turbo S.  We was wearing a Porsche club t-shirt and matching baseball cap, and had an arm-candy girl with him and requested a seat by the balcony nearest his car. 

He never said anything to me but I automatically scoffed at such an insane use of money, and internally postulated that he probably was no where near being FI and likely financed the 911. 
But then I realized that I was the one being the douche-bag.  I knew nothing about him and he had done absolutely nothing to warrant my ire.  I was being a judgemental SOB.  Maybe he really is loaded - a movie star or tech geek.  Maybe he's dying of cancer and rented this car for his one great weekend before the SHTF. Who knows. 

I'm just posting here as a way of trying to keep myself honest.  I hate that I judged someone so quickly with so little interaction or evidence.  Anyone done anything similar recently?

nereo

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I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 12:06:02 PM »
Ever have one of those moments when you disgust yourself?

Over the weekend we took advantage of the beautiful weather to do some hiking and ended at a local brewery.  While waiting for our pints a guy, maybe 28 years old, drove up in a brand new Porsche 911 Turbo S.  We was wearing a Porsche club t-shirt and matching baseball cap, and had an arm-candy girl with him and requested a seat by the balcony nearest his car. 

He never said anything to me but I automatically scoffed at such an insane use of money, and internally postulated that he probably was no where near being FI and likely financed the 911. 
But then I realized that I was the one being the douche-bag.  I knew nothing about him and he had done absolutely nothing to warrant my ire.  I was being a judgemental SOB.  Maybe he really is loaded - a movie star or tech geek.  Maybe he's dying of cancer and rented this car for his one great weekend before the SHTF. Who knows. 

I'm just posting here as a way of trying to keep myself honest.  I hate that I judged someone so quickly with so little interaction or evidence.  Anyone done anything similar recently?

Bob W

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 12:58:16 PM »
Reminds me of the joke "Do you know the difference between a Porche and a porcupine?"


velocistar237

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 01:03:18 PM »
I'm trying out some mindfulness stuff to deal with insomnia. Basically it reduces your judgmental attitudes toward yourself by helping you examine your thoughts. It probably also helps with judgmental attitudes toward others.

Also, This is Water.

MLKnits

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 01:23:58 PM »
This is an ongoing issue in my life. The best method I've ever found for working on it is to consciously come up with positive imagined things about the people you randomly encounter. Your brain is pretty much filing people into categories the moment you see them, and many of those categories are, pardon my French, fucked up.

So I would (for instance) sit on the subway and tell myself a more positive "category" for each person who might be slotted into something more judgmental.

Teen with a baby: responsible sibling or entrepreneurial babysitter.
Person listening to loud music: distracted by planning their PhD thesis.
Person with their bag on a seat: anxiety issues, trying to self-protect.
Loud, annoying schoolkids: having fun being young and free in the brief subway break between school and homework pressures.
Drunk dudebros: ... okay, I can't think of something for EVERYONE, but I'm sure you'll be better at it than I am.

I'm not great at it, don't get me wrong, but during the periods when I've done this really actively, I've been much less default-judgmental, and generally happier.

nereo

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 01:35:23 PM »
Reminds me of the joke "Do you know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?"
Um.... no...? What's the difference?

Gone Fishing

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 01:55:19 PM »
Don't feel too bad.  It takes a ton of determination to resist all the temptations of the world to get to FI and/or RE.  Just about every purchase or decision is judged as to whether or not it gets us closer to the goal.  Only natural that you become more judgemental.  I also think it is a part of the process to vilify those things that could potentially get in between us and our goal.  Just like anyone who changes their religion, diet, or other ingrained aspect of their lives, we have a desire to impress our new found "wisdom" onto others.  As I get closer and closer to FIRE, I am making a consious decision to adopt a more carefree attitude towards what others choose to do with their money. 

dandarc

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 01:59:44 PM »
Reminds me of the joke "Do you know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?"
Um.... no...? What's the difference?
The porcupine has its pricks on the outside.

Where I'm from it went "What's the difference between the Big House (Michigan Stadium) and a porcupine?"

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 02:06:22 PM »
Nereo, you are not alone.  And you are off to a great start by admitting you have a problem. 

I have no solution, other than to recommend that when things like this find their way out of your mouth and into someone else's ear, an immediate apology is the way to go.

kendallf

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2015, 08:04:41 PM »
I'm with you.  Just thinking about this, and after reading and making a post or two on the forum here as well. 

My wife often gives me hell for being judgmental about random strangers, and my (weak) defense is that we're all thinking similar thoughts anyway.  I like the alternate visualization exercise above..

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2015, 08:07:22 PM »
We are all Spiritual Beings learned to cope with a Human awakening.  Porsche Boy is just in a different place on his Human discovery.  Wish him well.  Learning to be cool with the real you is always painful.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2015, 08:31:00 PM »
Don't ignore that you also completely wrote off the woman who was with him.

I used to judge people too, and then I realized that not only did it make me feel like a horrible person when I got all mad about something and made snap judgments about someone, but I was also frequently wrong and had gotten worked up over nothing (which, yeah, was sometimes fun). But it's a TON more fun and rewarding to give people the benefit of the doubt. It avoids conflict and makes you see the possibilities MLKnits mentioned.

Ultimately, I think it's not easy to do because you have to admit to yourself that other people can be just as (if not more) intelligent, interesting, and complex as you are. And that means admitting that you're pretty average, and who wants to do that?

Knapptyme

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2015, 08:57:59 PM »
My wife and I usually do this together. We laugh about it mostly, but when we're proven wrong and we see it before our eyes, which happened recently, we make fun of ourselves. While we are judgmental, we are human, and we like to laugh about most things in life.

There are some true judgments we project on people that we cannot really grasp. As the nature of this thread is admitting it, how does anyone not think smoking is about the dumbest things someone can do? It is simultaneously wasting one's lungs and money, but since one's lifespan will be less that may not be an issue. I, too, am a judgmental SOB. Can someone spin the perspective when you see someone smoking?

mrpercentage

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 12:59:02 AM »
I thought you might like this

https://youtu.be/mMRrCYPxD0I

nereo

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 09:09:29 AM »
Some good ideas about projecting other, positive scenarios onto people I meet, and it's nice to know that other people here struggle with judgemental attitudes.  Like Knapptyme, I'm still having a hard time finding a way to be ok with smoking - particularly since I moved from an office in California where no one smoked my current one where the majority of people smoke. 
I'm just going to wokr on having a "live-and-let-live" attitude.  I will help anyone who seeks advice about how to improve their financial lives (e.g. "while fun, a Porsche 911-T will probably add a decade to your working life") but if they seem ok and aren't looking for advice... to each their own.
thanks.

Cathy

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 11:20:33 AM »
...I'm still having a hard time finding a way to be ok with smoking - particularly since I moved from an office in California where no one smoked my current one where the majority of people smoke.  ...

I really dislike smoking. I have pretty libertarian views, but I think there is an argument to be made for banning smoking everywhere except in private residences. It might even be justifiable to ban it in private residences unless a proper air filtering system is installed. That will probably happen eventually. Every province in Canada already bans smoking in most enclosed areas and some outdoors places. Expanding the ban to the rest of outdoors is the next logical step.

People should be free to damage their bodies if they want to and I don't judge them for that, but the air is a public resource, and other people have no right to pollute it and reduce our enjoyment thereof.

Bob W

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 12:18:44 PM »
...I'm still having a hard time finding a way to be ok with smoking - particularly since I moved from an office in California where no one smoked my current one where the majority of people smoke.  ...

I really dislike smoking. I have pretty libertarian views, but I think there is an argument to be made for banning smoking everywhere except in private residences. It might even be justifiable to ban it in private residences unless a proper air filtering system is installed. That will probably happen eventually. Every province in Canada already bans smoking in most enclosed areas and some outdoors places. Expanding the ban to the rest of outdoors is the next logical step.

People should be free to damage their bodies if they want to and I don't judge them for that, but the air is a public resource, and other people have no right to pollute it and reduce our enjoyment thereof.



You probably don't miss the good old days when everyone smoked --- in planes,  in movie theatres,  in class at college,  in the doctor's office in the doctor's hand.

I hope you don't drive or use carbon based electricity because if you do your putting as much CO2 into our public air in about 30 minutes than a smoker puts smoke pollutants in the public air does in about a year.    You ever seen coal burn? 

JLee

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2015, 12:43:10 PM »
Don't ignore that you also completely wrote off the woman who was with him.

I used to judge people too, and then I realized that not only did it make me feel like a horrible person when I got all mad about something and made snap judgments about someone, but I was also frequently wrong and had gotten worked up over nothing (which, yeah, was sometimes fun). But it's a TON more fun and rewarding to give people the benefit of the doubt. It avoids conflict and makes you see the possibilities MLKnits mentioned.

Ultimately, I think it's not easy to do because you have to admit to yourself that other people can be just as (if not more) intelligent, interesting, and complex as you are. And that means admitting that you're pretty average, and who wants to do that?
Yeah, that bothered me more than anything else from the OP.

nereo

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2015, 02:10:38 PM »
Don't ignore that you also completely wrote off the woman who was with him.
[snip]
Yeah, that bothered me more than anything else from the OP.
It wasn't lost on my at all that I judged the woman at all - part of the reason I put it in the OP.  However, my internal judgement of her ("you could do so much better") was quite a bit nicer than my internal judgement of him.  As I said, I don't like that made a snap judgement, and so I'm consciously trying to change that behavior.

zoltani

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2015, 02:31:25 PM »
I don't think being on this forum helps, there are whole sub-forums dedicated to judging people/society. One needs a healthy dose of questioning of the norms, thin line between that and judging though.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 02:44:26 PM »
Ever have one of those moments when you disgust yourself?

Over the weekend we took advantage of the beautiful weather to do some hiking and ended at a local brewery.  While waiting for our pints a guy, maybe 28 years old, drove up in a brand new Porsche 911 Turbo S.  We was wearing a Porsche club t-shirt and matching baseball cap, and had an arm-candy girl with him and requested a seat by the balcony nearest his car. 

He never said anything to me but I automatically scoffed at such an insane use of money, and internally postulated that he probably was no where near being FI and likely financed the 911. 
But then I realized that I was the one being the douche-bag.  I knew nothing about him and he had done absolutely nothing to warrant my ire.  I was being a judgemental SOB.  Maybe he really is loaded - a movie star or tech geek.  Maybe he's dying of cancer and rented this car for his one great weekend before the SHTF. Who knows. 

I'm just posting here as a way of trying to keep myself honest.  I hate that I judged someone so quickly with so little interaction or evidence.  Anyone done anything similar recently?

I have seen this movie many times while working in family businesses. So as long as the family business is in business, it's all good for people like the young man you saw with the porche and eye candy along for the ride.

RetiredAt63

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 04:51:19 AM »
To continue this side topic, how do porcupines make love?

And to be serious, it can be very easy to judge others.  I found when I was teaching that judging was getting to be my default position, because so much of teaching is judging (how good was this answer on the test, how good was this term paper, lab report, etc.?). Its the same sort of problem spouses complain about, when they are married to executives who can't turn off telling people what to do when they are home.  Self-awareness is a good staring point.

Reminds me of the joke "Do you know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?"
Um.... no...? What's the difference?
The porcupine has its pricks on the outside.

Where I'm from it went "What's the difference between the Big House (Michigan Stadium) and a porcupine?"

nereo

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2015, 05:19:20 AM »
To continue this side topic, how do porcupines make love?

am I the only one who doesn't know any porcupine jokes??  Ok, how do porcupines make love?

Interesting what you say about spouses being married to executives that can't "shut-off" their need to tell people what to do when they are home.  Reminds me of being the child of an army officer... it's hard for the officer to not run his home like he'd run his platoon.

boy_bye

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2015, 05:33:11 AM »
Step 1) be a judgemental asshole

Step 2) notice you are doing this and mock yourself for being a judgemental asshole

Step 3) let it go

Normally how it goes for me anyhow ...

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2015, 06:31:28 AM »
I have this problem with a slightly different twist.

I often assume the best of others and even challenge my husband when he makes snarky snap judgments of other people, but I have a real problem judging family members. Because I know them and hold them to a different standard than strangers, I find myself being much more judgmental. I hate it because I think it's causing me to like my family less. Obviously that's poop.

Just chiming in to see what people end up suggesting. I don't want to be an asshole.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2015, 02:59:14 PM »
Hmm, interesting. I had a somewhat similar experience the other day. I was trying really hard not to be judgemental, but there was a woman, with a chinese character tatooed on her arm, yelling at the pharmacy people in CVS, while her mom stood outside of her poorly maintained 20 year old car (it's totally ok that it was old, but it was obviously not cared for), while her dark-skinned children sat in the car.

Now, it's totally reasonable to own an old car, and it's ok to have tattoos, and it's ok to get upset if someone screws up your prescriptions, and it's ok to have children with someone that is of a different race, etc. So I was really trying not to judge them as white trash, but they were sure trying to check off every box on the list.

But I still judged them (the adults, anyways). :(

mrshudson

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2015, 03:41:52 PM »
I don't think being on this forum helps, there are whole sub-forums dedicated to judging people/society. One needs a healthy dose of questioning of the norms, thin line between that and judging though.

This. I have long felt the need to write to MMM asking to pull the plug on Antimustachian Wall of Shame area of the forum,and similar negative attitude on the blog in the name of 'comedy'. Positive thoughts, reinforcement of an internal validation system (rather than needing validation from the outside world) and self reflection go a long way than face punches. Because judging people for their bad decisions and then comparing one's own lifestyle to feel better is another head of the "keeping up with the joneses" hydra.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2015, 11:39:40 AM »
In my single mom days, I was on the receiving end of people's judgments a lot. Here's what people saw: a young women, well dressed, using wic coupons to buy the basics, plus cigarettes and beer, then loading the groceries into a relatively new WV. I had some pretty shitty comments thrown at me in the checkout line.

Here's what those same people didn't see: I hate smoking, can't stand the smell, and didn't drink beer because I couldn't afford it. The beer and smokes were for a friend who couldn't drive but watched my kid for free when I had reserve duty, so I wouldn't be thrown into jail for being AWOL after I was unexpectedly recalled into service. The car wasn't mine - it was another friends' car who was out of town on sabbatical and asked me to drive it occasionally just to keep it running okay. I put maybe 10 miles a month on it. My nice clothes - it costs the same to buy nice clothes or crappy clothes on dollar days at the thrift shop. Why would I buy stained sweats when I could look presentable for the same cost?

Over time I learned to dress crappy (patched jeans and such) so I could "look the part" anytime I had to use the WIC coupons. It still makes me sad that I had to do that. It's hard to unwrap the emotions around being made to feel guilty for looking decent while poor - you know, how DARE you try to look presentable, when you don't belong to our social caste?

Alchemilla

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2015, 01:03:52 PM »
This thread has made me realise I shouldn't play "farmer? No farmer" with the wedding day photos in the local paper.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2015, 10:48:18 AM »
I JUST DID THIS!  I was sitting at a bar Saturday eating some tacos and drinking a beer (go ahead, judge me you SOBs), and this guy sits down next to me.  He starts chatting up the cute bartender and tells her he's a member of a country club across the street.  I mumble to my SO "humble brag" and she chuckles...I automatically file this guy under the default file "douche".

A few minutes later we're talking about the fact that school isn't teaching kids anything about financial issues like balancing check books, or how to budget money.  We both had been broke at one time and had learned the hard way...wish there was a secret moustacian handshake cuz I would have attempted it.

Lesson learned.  I hope.

Jon

zoltani

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2015, 01:59:27 PM »
This thread has made me realise I shouldn't play "farmer? No farmer" with the wedding day photos in the local paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr2Yt0TPa9c

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2015, 02:23:10 PM »
Great thread.

I'm most judgmental of my husband's family. Sigh. It's part because I care, and part because I know too much... but I really need to shut off the judgement and just have love and acceptance. :)

Also his coworkers. I guess everyone has different choices, but it's hard for me not to squeal with laughter when I hear about the things his coworkers buy!

I'll try meditation. But I can't wait to hear more ideas! :)

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2015, 05:22:50 PM »
Great thread.

I'm most judgmental of my husband's family. Sigh. It's part because I care, and part because I know too much...

I find it also true that those I most understand I am judging the worst.  I don't like it and want to stop it!

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2015, 06:10:24 PM »
I have spent a lot of time thinking about my own internal biases.  And yet even after all of this consideration, and after so much time trying to fight against it, I still have to recognize that I have biases.  We all have them.  It's just the way our brains are wired.

But when time allows me to find out more, I learn all kinds of surprising things about people and find that many of my biases have caused my snap judgement to be wrong more often than right. So I too play that little game that someone mentioned on the subway if I find myself projecting things onto people. And certainly many, many people judge me incorrectly, because my appearance does not often match the truth about who I am. I suspect this is true for many people once you get down to the details.

There is a place for the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy, though. Enough people are horrible with money to provide entertainment value.

surfhb

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2015, 06:13:59 PM »
Read The Millionaire Next door!   

Odds are pretty good he's drowning in debt...poor guy.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2015, 06:14:25 PM »
I tend to be judgemental too especially when I am waiting at the bus and as I am staring at the Tim Hortons drive thru, I always have a comment in my head saying stuff like "Man they waste all their money each day on coffee and donuts, no wonder they are shaped like that", but afterwards I feel bad for having thought that, because it shows I can be an ass sometimes :(   That is something I am trying to change, I hate thinking that way. I should simply let people be and worry about my own situation.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 06:16:03 PM by fb132 »

nereo

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2015, 06:44:59 AM »
Read The Millionaire Next door!   

Odds are pretty good he's drowning in debt...poor guy.
I have read it, and I enjoyed it.  Yes, there's a very high probability that he is drowning in debt... but that didn't warrant my snap-judgement.  He could be uncharacteristically successful, the car could be his parent's car, etc.  Perhaps most of all, he could be a very charming, respectful individual who's simply made some monumentally poor financial decisions and therefore didn't deserve my snap-judgement on his personality. 
Or he could really be an ass.  Either way, I don't want to judge someone so immediately until I've at least interacted with them.

killingxspree

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2015, 07:50:43 AM »
My advice to the OP is: 'mustashianism' is not a competition or rat race. Its irrelevant where he is on his journey to FI. You need to stop/throw out the its a competation/rat-race/'keeping up with the Joneses' frame of mind.

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2015, 08:12:31 AM »
I think suggestions that you should pity him, assume he's poor, etc. kind of miss the point.

You know nothing about him.  You don't know that he's poor.  You don't know that he isn't.  Reframing may make your thoughts a bit more attractive.  But more to the point is, why do you care at all?  So what if he's an epic douche who has 6 figure credit card debt?  So what if she's a glorified prostitute who sells herself to the highest bidder?  And so what if he's a kid making some extra money by transporting cars across the country during his college break and he wants to sit where he can see his assignment? And so what if maybe the car is actually hers and she's a brilliant scientist as well as a generous philanthropist, who owns the car primarily to be used for Make-A-Wish wishes for terminally ill people who just want to spend a day driving their dream car?

To me, the real question you need to ask yourself is not "what other explanations might there be for what I see?", but "Why do I care?"  Are you so insecure with your own choices that you have to default to shitting on others to stay ahead of that insecurity?  Do you feel deprived by your mustachian choices, with your sense of deprivation manifesting itself in jealousy and then pettiness toward someone making choices you wish you could make?  Do you worry that others judge your older car and therefore react defensively when you see a choice at the other end of the spectrum?

Focus on why you care so much about the choices of other people--choices that have basically no effect on you-- and what that shows you you need to work on in yourself.  That you care at all--good or bad--probably means you have work to do on yourself. Even if you see a guy driving a beater or a bike and judge him in a good way--"He's probably very responsible and sensible, with a good head on his shoulders and a nice 'stache"-- you could be wrong.  He could also be a guy who just robbed a bank, shooting two people in the process, and wanted a low-key getaway car.  But the real issue is why you care about someone else's decisions, and what need that fills in you, and what better ways you can find to fill or eliminate that need. 

My least favorite thing about MMM and these boards is the sanctimony and judgement for those who make different choices.  Someone wants to own a Porsche?  Cool.  I hope he gets out of if whatever he's looking for.  And as long as he's making an informed decision and has done the cost benefit analysis and chosen what looks best, even if he actually asks me, I am going to say, "good for you for buying that car of your dreams, which clearly makes you happy".  Because I don't care if his choices and values and finances are different than mind.  His Porsche isn't, IMO, a morally lesser (or greater) decision than my 2000 Toyota Echo. It isn't until he starts complaining that he's broke or otherwise demonstrating that his choices are in conflict with his values, that it becomes anything more than value neutral.   And more to the point, it is none of my business and has nothing to do with me. 

Giro

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2015, 02:07:16 PM »
Ultimately, I think it's not easy to do because you have to admit to yourself that other people can be just as (if not more) intelligent, interesting, and complex as you are. And that means admitting that you're pretty average, and who wants to do that?

THIS.

I was just listening to some book about how everyone believes they are above average...intelligence, attractiveness, finances, and hard working.

What if the guy was just much better at making/investing/saving money and he decided to buy a car that would in no way impact his finances.  What if he's already FI and can afford it?  What if he just inherited a bunch of cash and his and his deceased relative's dream was to own a Porsche turbo so he used the money to buy the dream car? 

I love Porsches!  Love love love them.

I'm also a judgmental SOB 99% of the time.  I really need to work on that.

Katsplaying

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2015, 11:27:59 AM »
"Step 1) be a judgemental asshole

Step 2) notice you are doing this and mock yourself for being a judgemental asshole

Step 3) let it go"

THIS!!!

I gotta tell ya, I knew it ALL when I was 20. Now I'm 53 and I am embarrassed at the narrow-minded sanctimonious crap that courses through my consciousness still. The good news: I almost never spew that vomit in public any more and do so less & less in private.

Humans make judgements constantly. It's how we managed to evolve in a dangerous world; "that's something! is it a threat? no!" & go breed the next generation or "yes a threat!" & run away/fight/freeze. Rapid evaluation of a situation is/was crucial. Those mental strategies don't end because the circumstances of our existence have radically changed. But in a society, and we are social animals, assessment of others leads us to mates, friends, enemies, and more because we can use our big brains to consciously adopt more humane stances.

It isn't just what you thought, it's how you feel about what you thought. You/I/we recognize the meanness & disdain and are dismayed by it. So resolve to be kinder going forward.

I tried to teach my kid 3 Buddhist concepts around honesty: is it true? is it necessary? is it kind? If all are yes, say/do the thing. If not, examine why and adjust accordingly.  It's an ongoing project, to be more human & humane in the world.

velocistar237

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2015, 07:37:26 AM »
To me, the real question you need to ask yourself is not "what other explanations might there be for what I see?", but "Why do I care?"

Great question. I think the answer is that we're social creatures with a strong desire to compete and therefore compare ourselves to others, and teaching ourselves to not assume the worst when that strong desire arises is a step in the right direction. Still, when we do it, we're giving ourselves permission to continue comparing ourselves to others. It could easily backfire, too, since all it takes to burst our bubble and turn us back into judgers is a short conversation.

With his criticisms, MMM emphasizes how ridiculous modern life can be. He wins us over with these comparisons, helping us refine our perspective and goals. It gives us motivation to change, to see typical elements of modern life this way and to see them compared to a much better way. It's tough to turn around from that general perspective and not apply it to particular people. If we're not careful, and honestly we're often not, then our judgments go from wise discernment to cruel condemnation without even the smallest awareness.

Can motivation be strong without competition? I know people say, you're only in competition with your past self, but that's a lot harder to muster. The difficulty might be the answer to your question. I imagine that motivation that exists without competition is very strong indeed, that being a living example to others without condemnation wins over a lot more people, that learning from others' examples without judging them helps us rebound from our failures because we learn to not judge ourselves, and that you can better fight for good without worrying about every little thing. But those aren't natural instincts. Perhaps we can get there by first giving others the benefit of the doubt, then realizing we don't even need the doubt anymore.

Cougar

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2015, 12:48:29 PM »
Ever have one of those moments when you disgust yourself?

Over the weekend we took advantage of the beautiful weather to do some hiking and ended at a local brewery.  While waiting for our pints a guy, maybe 28 years old, drove up in a brand new Porsche 911 Turbo S.  We was wearing a Porsche club t-shirt and matching baseball cap, and had an arm-candy girl with him and requested a seat by the balcony nearest his car. 

He never said anything to me but I automatically scoffed at such an insane use of money, and internally postulated that he probably was no where near being FI and likely financed the 911. 
But then I realized that I was the one being the douche-bag.  I knew nothing about him and he had done absolutely nothing to warrant my ire.  I was being a judgemental SOB.  Maybe he really is loaded - a movie star or tech geek.  Maybe he's dying of cancer and rented this car for his one great weekend before the SHTF. Who knows. 

I'm just posting here as a way of trying to keep myself honest.  I hate that I judged someone so quickly with so little interaction or evidence.  Anyone done anything similar recently?

I do that and just live with my conclusion that not everyone is they same and most people do not change; so just better to accept them for who they are.

i would recommend reading how to win friends and influence people and just skim it before going out to some social settings. no, you're not about to become the group leader but you'll make it more enjoyable if you implement some of those sugestions.

Ynari

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 03:27:49 PM »
I'm trying out some mindfulness stuff to deal with insomnia. Basically it reduces your judgmental attitudes toward yourself by helping you examine your thoughts. It probably also helps with judgmental attitudes toward others.

Also, This is Water.

I'm finding mindfulness to be very helpful with reducing judgement - I recently started meditating a few weeks ago thanks to Raptitude. Zen Habits recently had a post Practicing Non-Judgment that's worth a read. I find a bit of empathy and the understanding that others try to operate in their own best interest go a long way to not being judgmental of others.

Also, spending time away from this forum helps...  I like you guys and all, but something about being on here a lot makes me more judgmental of otherwise normal financial and lifestyle actions of other people.

Snow White

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 04:24:31 PM »
...I'm still having a hard time finding a way to be ok with smoking - particularly since I moved from an office in California where no one smoked my current one where the majority of people smoke.  ...

I really dislike smoking. I have pretty libertarian views, but I think there is an argument to be made for banning smoking everywhere except in private residences. It might even be justifiable to ban it in private residences unless a proper air filtering system is installed. That will probably happen eventually. Every province in Canada already bans smoking in most enclosed areas and some outdoors places. Expanding the ban to the rest of outdoors is the next logical step.

People should be free to damage their bodies if they want to and I don't judge them for that, but the air is a public resource, and other people have no right to pollute it and reduce our enjoyment thereof.

I hate smoking.  I can't abide it and have a hard, hard time not being judgmental about people who smoke. I try to recall it is an addiction and remind myself of additive behaviors in myself (I'm looking at you chocolate), and know I'd be miserable if I could never have chocolate again.  I know it isn't the same since smoking pollutes our environment and causes damage to innocent people nearby.  I have a sister I dearly love who smoked for years and I also try to imagine that a nearby smoker is just her struggling to quit but not there yet.  It's hard though.

One thing that helped me to be humble was working as nurse.  I had my own snap judgements about people (and sometimes the behaviors that brought them to needing me) yet often when I got to know the person better I had a whole different insight into their behavior.

I also try to reach out to the person who I am judging and have had a couple of amazing reversals. One incident occurred when I was working as a hospice nurse and attending the death of a young black man who had just diied of AIDS. I had been his nurse for six months or so and loved him and had grown so attached to his raggedy band of friends who had provided loving and tender care to him during the months he was sick.  A white police officer showed up after the death (a friend panicked and called 911) and began escalating bad feelings in the house by calling his colleagues in front of us and that the incident was, "nothing but a dead druggie ni**er". Prior to the officer's arrival we had all been saying goodbye to our dead friend and getting his body ready and it was a moving and spiritual process.  That feeling changed the second the officer arrived.  I felt my anger rising but looked finally at the officer and realized how uncomfortable he seemed.  I said to him, "it must be SO hard to walk into a scene like this where you've missed all the important stuff.  You didn't get to know what a wonderful man (the deceased) was or see the excellent care these friends of his provided.  All you see get to see is a dead guy."  The officer TEARED UP and sat down and agreed it was hard and basically that he coped by being an asshole.  All our jaws dropped.  The sense of relief in the room was palpable and the officer stayed and helped until the funeral home staff arrived.  Now when I find myself getting annoyed or angry at someone I think about him and wonder if aggressive or blustery behavior is covering anxiety or fear.

Cecil

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2015, 07:24:17 PM »
Practice empathy. Everyone is the star of their own story, and very few people make decisions that are actually in conflict with their values. If someone makes different choices than you, they likely have different values, and nobody's values are "better" or "worse" than anyone else's (as long as they don't harm others).

It's introspection time!

Is this a recent pattern for you? Perhaps you feel like you've just become enlightened to mustachianism, you can see the huge benefit its had on your life, and therefore you think people who aren't mustachian are blind or ignorant? In that case, does it make you feel good to revel in others' ignorance? Does it make you feel good to think about how you've discovered the secret to happiness (FI) and do you think that makes you better than others who haven't yet had the same revelation?

Perhaps you feel like FI is such a valuable thing that you can't comprehend why anyone would *not* want it? Perhaps you feel like he lacks self-control? Perhaps your id wants a Porsche as well but your superego keeps that in check? Is there a feeling that you could have saved him from the stupidity of his choices if only you'd had the chance to talk with him first?

And so on, until you understand where it comes from.

But then more deeply, think about why you judge people in the first place. If you could talk to them, *truly listen*, and hear their story, you would discover that everyone is just trying to pursue happiness in the best way they can. If someone makes a decision that's incongruous with their own happiness, the empathetic response is not judgement but pity and sorrow.

If 28-year-old Porsche guy financed his car because he thought it would truly make him happy, but now he's stuck in the loan payment cycle, that's a damn shame.

lpep

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2015, 08:17:48 PM »
I also try to reach out to the person who I am judging and have had a couple of amazing reversals. One incident occurred when I was working as a hospice nurse and attending the death of a young black man who had just diied of AIDS. I had been his nurse for six months or so and loved him and had grown so attached to his raggedy band of friends who had provided loving and tender care to him during the months he was sick.  A white police officer showed up after the death (a friend panicked and called 911) and began escalating bad feelings in the house by calling his colleagues in front of us and that the incident was, "nothing but a dead druggie ni**er". Prior to the officer's arrival we had all been saying goodbye to our dead friend and getting his body ready and it was a moving and spiritual process.  That feeling changed the second the officer arrived.  I felt my anger rising but looked finally at the officer and realized how uncomfortable he seemed.  I said to him, "it must be SO hard to walk into a scene like this where you've missed all the important stuff.  You didn't get to know what a wonderful man (the deceased) was or see the excellent care these friends of his provided.  All you see get to see is a dead guy."  The officer TEARED UP and sat down and agreed it was hard and basically that he coped by being an asshole.  All our jaws dropped.  The sense of relief in the room was palpable and the officer stayed and helped until the funeral home staff arrived.  Now when I find myself getting annoyed or angry at someone I think about him and wonder if aggressive or blustery behavior is covering anxiety or fear.

Wow! What a story.

Daisy

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2015, 12:19:16 AM »
Whenever I struggle with being judgmental, I think about this quote:

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

Not everyone is at the same mental or emotional state that you may be in. Heck, even some more emotionally-advanced person than you at first sounds like a quack until you get to that emotional state where it all makes sense. Another favorite quote:

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

I really do love quotes...

MLKnits

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2015, 11:14:24 AM »
Whenever I struggle with being judgmental, I think about this quote:

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

In that vein, I've always liked the psych idea that symptoms are the person's best compromise with a disorder/chemical imbalance/trauma. I think that's much more broadly true: much of what we do is a compromise between what we believe is Right, and other things we have to weigh in the balance.

Most people are pretty honestly trying to come to the best compromise they can, even if it doesn't look like that from the outside. Many could do a lot better with better tools (anger management, communication skills, trustworthy mentors, tangible benefits to following societal expectations, hope for their futures) but I don't think many people have honestly thrown up their hands and decided to be shitty.

choppingwood

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Re: I've become a judgemental SOB... and I want to change.
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2015, 09:54:41 PM »
I am interested in this thread and the introspection that is being expressed.

In recent weeks, my last as I enter retirement, I have been struck by how acceptable it has become to dump on other people. There have been several times that I have been punched in the face.

At a recent workshop on working in a multicultural environment, we were asked to position different jobs assigned to us, on a continuum from success to failure. I was an HR Manager in real life, and one of the participants, who was assigned the position of HR Manager, placed himself at rock bottom failure. Got a really good laugh from fellow staff association members during de-briefing. A week ago, on my last day of my contract, the same individual came to my office to tell me how much I had helped him and his staff during my contracts, and how he wished I were not leaving. He asked me repeatedly to stay in touch. Many other people who had laughed at his joke came to my office to express appreciation for work I had done. Which is real? As a younger person, I would have said the one-on-one conversations were who they really were. But I think now that what you say in public, is who you really are.

Even the tone of lunch hours at the office became intolerable enough that I stayed away from the cafeteria for weeks. I am sixty years old, and re-living high school!!!

I see the same kind of thing on this forum. Questions asked in a genuine wish to understand and answers given in the spirit of helpfulness receive ripping criticism and cynical answers that are neither true nor amusing.

In the forum, I leave threads that head that way. I leave MMM posts that head that way. I stay in and engage in threads or posts that are helpful, genuinely amusing, and/or bring out the positive in me. (There is much that is like that.) I go to forums which have none of this tone. I try to do the same in the rest of my life. And I am trying not to be what makes me unhappy.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!