Huh . . . apparently ants are self aware.

[GuitarStv]

http://www.journalofscience.net/File_Folder/521-532%28jos%29.pdf

So, if you put a coloured dot on an ants head, it just walks around like normal.  Unless you stick the ant in front of a mirror . . . in which case the ant will see the dot and try to remove it.  If you make the dot the same colour as the ants head, it will just ignore it in the mirror.

Crazy implications here . . . that ants are capable of recognizing themselves in a mirror and that ants are therefore self aware.  Considering that they only live for a couple months, and have brains of only about 250k cells that's pretty incredible.

[Bicycle_B]

The authors state in the abstract that the ants may not be self aware, though they recognize themselves in the mirror.

Maybe humans' special ability isn't self-awareness, it's just the belief that other creatures aren't self-aware.

[GuitarStv]

Yes, only self-recognition is proven.  Self awareness though is certainly implied.

[cerat0n1a]

It's a really nicely designed set of experiments - the clear implication being that ants can at least recognise themselves visually - and recognise nestmates and non-nestmates. Interesting that they clean themselves rather than the reflection.

[limeandpepper]

Thanks for sharing. I played with ants as a kid (the nice sort that doesn't bite), and I find this really cute and interesting. :)

[jrhampt]

This is pretty damn cool! And weird.

[forummm]

Just like we don't really understand all that much about our brains and consciousness and abilities, we understand far, far less about other species.

[matchewed]

They also count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DDF8WZFnoU

[forummm]

They also fight wars.

https://www.quora.com/Do-animals-fight-wars-and-if-so-what-was-the-largest-war/answer/Suzanne-Sadedin

[Stachey]

This is very interesting.

I've seen cats get freaked out when they see their own reflection in a window and they think it's another cat.  You'd think with a larger brain they could recognize themselves?  Or is something else freaking them out?

[Bicycle_B]

They also fight wars.

https://www.quora.com/Do-animals-fight-wars-and-if-so-what-was-the-largest-war/answer/Suzanne-Sadedin

Wow!

This is almost as amazing as GuitarStv's post.  The world is a fascinating place.

[zoltani]

The idea is indeed fascinating.

Just like we don't really understand all that much about our brains and consciousness and abilities, we understand far, far less about other species.

Yes, indeed. How do we even know that animals are not conscious or self aware? Likewise how do we know that trees and plants are not? We sometimes like to believe that we are somehow separate from nature, when in fact we are nature.

[irishbear99]

Yes, only self-recognition is proven.  Self awareness though is certainly implied.

I wonder, though...wouldn't one have to be aware s/he exists in order to recognize oneself?

[SaskyStache]

This is really cool.

Ants are so damn interesting. http://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/quirks-quarks-for-feb-27-2016-1.3465782/ants-locked-in-mortal-combat-for-99-million-years-1.3465818

[Classical_Liberal]

This is super interesting, thanks for sharing.  I've seen articles and doc's about essentially the same experiment with animals and human kids.  Generally kids dont even recognize themsselves in a mirror until around 12 to 18 mos old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2I0kwSua44

[arebelspy]

Following.

[forummm]

This is super interesting, thanks for sharing.  I've seen articles and doc's about essentially the same experiment with animals and human kids.  Generally kids dont even recognize themsselves in a mirror until around 12 to 18 mos old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2I0kwSua44

My kid gets really excited every time he sees himself in the mirror--and has since about 5 months. Normally he doesn't get excited about most other kids he sees. He'll even ignore them. Maybe it's just because he's a particularly adorable baby. But I should give him that test to see how he does.

[scrubbyfish]

I am happy to hear this!

I have been enjoying four tiny ants recently. I notice them and pause... say to myself, "Those ants are discussing the best route to the honey," and I feel happy to be living with such engaged, communicative, collaborative others.

But, yesterday I read in a book that ants regularly get tricked by certain caterpillars, because they cannot tell the difference between one and a queen ant! The caterpillar simply makes queen ant sounds. This left me guessing ants don't rely on sight...and then you post this!

So much to ponder on the beach today...

[Northwestie]

The definitive ant guy:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/books/edward-o-wilsons-new-book-social-conquest-of-earth.html?_r=0

[Classical_Liberal]

My kid gets really excited every time he sees himself in the mirror--and has since about 5 months. Normally he doesn't get excited about most other kids he sees. He'll even ignore them. Maybe it's just because he's a particularly adorable baby. But I should give him that test to see how he does.

If he is self aware so young, it's obviously because of superior parenting and genetics!

I am happy to hear this!

I have been enjoying four tiny ants recently. I notice them and pause... say to myself, "Those ants are discussing the best route to the honey," and I feel happy to be living with such engaged, communicative, collaborative others.

But, yesterday I read in a book that ants regularly get tricked by certain caterpillars, because they cannot tell the difference between one and a queen ant! The caterpillar simply makes queen ant sounds. This left me guessing ants don't rely on sight...and then you post this!

So much to ponder on the beach today...

Forget the beach, I want to be able to swim in that beautifully complex & unique brain of yours!

[scrubbyfish]

Forget the beach, I want to be able to swim in that beautifully complex & unique brain of yours!

:)))))))))))   You again, always making my day!

[forummm]

My kid gets really excited every time he sees himself in the mirror--and has since about 5 months. Normally he doesn't get excited about most other kids he sees. He'll even ignore them. Maybe it's just because he's a particularly adorable baby. But I should give him that test to see how he does.

If he is self aware so young, it's obviously because of superior parenting and genetics!

There's a lot of random genetic variation that occurs between generations. And he probably won't pass the test yet.

[SunshineAZ]

This is very interesting.

I've seen cats get freaked out when they see their own reflection in a window and they think it's another cat.  You'd think with a larger brain they could recognize themselves?  Or is something else freaking them out?

Relevant, but for entertainment purposes only :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FUH3eoizc

[Landlady]

Fascinating! We have a species of ant that lives near my house called a thatching ant. They build 6 ft wide and 3 ft tall mounds made of small sticks. They keep the plant life away from their colony by trimming back the foliage and stems. They even help one another complete tasks by working together. If you lay a leaf on their mound they dispose of it very quickly. My 2 year old couldn't do that as efficiently. :)

[Bicycle_B]

The ant supercolony extends to Santa Cruz Island but plans are afoot to retake that island in the name of earlier life forms:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/25/12608928/santa-cruz-island-argentine-ants-extermination-nature-conservancy

[arebelspy]

The ant supercolony extends to Santa Cruz Island but plans are afoot to retake that island in the name of earlier life forms:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/25/12608928/santa-cruz-island-argentine-ants-extermination-nature-conservancy

That article started abruptly.  I'd have liked if they started with why they were killing all these animals (rather than after describing a bunch of slaughter).  Very interesting though.  Thanks for the link!

Loving these ant articles.  Makes me think of Buggers from Ender's Game.  I think it's a losing game.  :)

[dividendman]

Did you look this up from the abortion thread? Nice to see that I learned something from that argument.

[Bajadoc]

"Scientific" studies prove whatever they are paid to prove. If "scientific" studies do not confirm common sense they are probably wrong. I spent a lifetime in the sciences and know this to be true. Science has been corrupted like everything else. Think for yourself.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

"Scientific" studies prove whatever they are paid to prove. If "scientific" studies do not confirm common sense they are probably wrong. I spent a lifetime in the sciences and know this to be true. Science has been corrupted like everything else. Think for yourself.

Yeah, quantum theory and general relativity are really just common sense. Good call.

ETA:
More seriously, I completely disagree that scientists are mere paid shills. Shit, I wouldn't be pecking on a refined petroleum doohickey causing a series of 1s and 0s to propogate at light speed through an interconnected web of copper and glass that spontaneously materializes as recognizable text on the magical picture frame in front of your face upon your command if that were the case. It is very much true that bad statistical analysis, cognitive bias, and promising dead-ends are part and parcel of the scientific process. Luckily the truth gets winnowed from the chaff eventually. That's the whole freaking point. Here, have a video.

[Bajadoc]

"Scientific" studies prove whatever they are paid to prove. If "scientific" studies do not confirm common sense they are probably wrong. I spent a lifetime in the sciences and know this to be true. Science has been corrupted like everything else. Think for yourself.

Yeah, quantum theory and general relativity are really just common sense. Good call.

They are.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

"Scientific" studies prove whatever they are paid to prove. If "scientific" studies do not confirm common sense they are probably wrong. I spent a lifetime in the sciences and know this to be true. Science has been corrupted like everything else. Think for yourself.

Yeah, quantum theory and general relativity are really just common sense. Good call.

They are.

[Bajadoc]

Those are theories not studies. Time to go back to school for the very basic fundamentals of science. Sorry could not resist.

MOD EDIT: You'll have to learn to resist.  Trolling is not acceptable.

[GuitarStv]

"Scientific" studies prove whatever they are paid to prove. If "scientific" studies do not confirm common sense they are probably wrong. I spent a lifetime in the sciences and know this to be true. Science has been corrupted like everything else. Think for yourself.

Yeah, you can't argue with common sense.  It was once common sense that blacks were inferior to whites, and that's why it was OK to enslave them.  It was common sense that the world was flat.  You need to throw salt over your left shoulder if you spill some or you'll have bad luck - that's just common sense.  No reason for surgeons to wash their hands between surgeries . . . common sense said that if they looked clean they were fine.  You know what saved us from the idiocy of common sense?  Actually performing science.

But let's humour your theory.  What possible reason do you think is behind this (reasonably) well designed study of self recognition in ants?  I admit that I didn't read it for shadowy conspiracy, but you never know . . . they may just have their mandibles in everything.  Common sense would dictate that that's probably a silly argument to make though . . .

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Those are theories not studies. Time to go back to school for the very basic fundamentals of science. Sorry could not resist.

I'm assuming you're not a creationist, which means you're aware that theories only become theories when they're supported by a preponderance of evidence, which is gathered via - you guessed it - studies. Nice try, tho.

[Jet711]

What I don't understand is why Mother Nature makes certain species of animals smarter than others (example: ants being smarter than most cats, have you seen those videos of cats attacking their reflections?).

Luckily my cats understand that their reflection in the mirror. Or maybe they're just ignoring them :P

[arebelspy]

What I don't understand is why Mother Nature makes certain species of animals smarter than others

Typically evolution via natural selection.  Animals tend to be as smart as they need to be.

[arebelspy]

Not ants, but dolphins may also have much more awareness and conversation than we thought.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/09/11/2022254/dolphins-recorded-having-a-conversation-for-the-first-time

For the first time Russian researchers have recorded a conversation between two dolphins -- Yasha and Yana -- who were talking to each other in a pool ... [From] The Telegraph:
Scientists developed an underwater microphone which could distinguish the animals' different "voices" [and] have now shown that dolphins alter the volume and frequency of pulsed clicks to form individual "words" which they string together into sentences in much the same way that humans speak...

"This language exhibits all the design features present in the human spoken language, this indicates a high level of intelligence and consciousness in dolphins, and their language can be ostensibly considered a highly developed spoken language, akin to the human language... Humans must take the first step to establish relationships with the first intelligent inhabitants of the planet Earth by creating devices capable of overcoming the barriers that stand in the way of using languages and in the way of communications between dolphins and people."

[zoltani]

I think that dolphins are more conscious than we think.

Did you know they get high?

http://www.isciencetimes.com/articles/6595/20131230/dolphins-high-bbc-cameras-catch-chewing-pufferfish.htm

""This was a case of young dolphins purposely experimenting with something we know to be intoxicating," Rob Pilley, a zoologist and producer of the show, told the Sunday Times. "After chewing the puffer gently and passing it around, they began acting most peculiarly, hanging around with their noses at the surface as if fascinated by their own reflection.""

And here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVqObIauPJA

[GuitarStv]

I think that dolphins are more conscious than we think.

Did you know they get high?

http://www.isciencetimes.com/articles/6595/20131230/dolphins-high-bbc-cameras-catch-chewing-pufferfish.htm

""This was a case of young dolphins purposely experimenting with something we know to be intoxicating," Rob Pilley, a zoologist and producer of the show, told the Sunday Times. "After chewing the puffer gently and passing it around, they began acting most peculiarly, hanging around with their noses at the surface as if fascinated by their own reflection.""

And here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVqObIauPJA

High animals isn't anything new.  Deer and moose get drunk often by eating fermented apples.  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-14842999

[Guses]

The idea is indeed fascinating.

Just like we don't really understand all that much about our brains and consciousness and abilities, we understand far, far less about other species.

Yes, indeed. How do we even know that animals are not conscious or self aware? Likewise how do we know that trees and plants are not? We sometimes like to believe that we are somehow separate from nature, when in fact we are nature.

Because they don't have brains or CNSs?

While we cannot exclude the possibility that they all have brains that we haven't found, the likelihood of this is astronomically small. 

[zoltani]

Did you know that trees communicate with each other and will send necessary nutrients to other trees to help them grow and thrive?

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet
"The more we learn about these underground networks, the more our ideas about plants have to change. They aren't just sitting there quietly growing. By linking to the fungal network they can help out their neighbours by sharing nutrients and information – or sabotage unwelcome plants by spreading toxic chemicals through the network."

I know this does not mean they have consciousness. However, I would like to ask you how you know that consciousness needs a brain? How do you know that consciousness cannot exist outside the skull?

[Guses]

Yeah, the nutrient exchange is really neat. It can all be explained by chemical sensing and reactivity. No brain required.

Nature does not stand to gain anything by evolving brains on plants. For one, plants would have had to have convergently evolved brains. Two, brains are very costly in terms of food requirements and development costs. Three, brains provide very little advantage for a thing that is sessile.

However, I would like to ask you how you know that consciousness needs a brain? How do you know that consciousness cannot exist outside the skull?

A rose is a rose by any other name. We know what brains look like in animals from arthropods to whales. We simply haven't found anything similar in plants. Considering the reasons presented above (amongst others), we may therefore conclude that the likelihood of plants having consciousness/a brain is very low.

If we were to discover something like that it would probably warrant a Nobel prize.

[teen persuasion]

Not ants, but dolphins may also have much more awareness and conversation than we thought.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/09/11/2022254/dolphins-recorded-having-a-conversation-for-the-first-time

For the first time Russian researchers have recorded a conversation between two dolphins -- Yasha and Yana -- who were talking to each other in a pool ... [From] The Telegraph:
Scientists developed an underwater microphone which could distinguish the animals' different "voices" [and] have now shown that dolphins alter the volume and frequency of pulsed clicks to form individual "words" which they string together into sentences in much the same way that humans speak...

"This language exhibits all the design features present in the human spoken language, this indicates a high level of intelligence and consciousness in dolphins, and their language can be ostensibly considered a highly developed spoken language, akin to the human language... Humans must take the first step to establish relationships with the first intelligent inhabitants of the planet Earth by creating devices capable of overcoming the barriers that stand in the way of using languages and in the way of communications between dolphins and people."

I've always said that dolphins are more intelligent than we are.  After all, they can learn to perform acts on our command, which they must obviously recognise and interpret, while we have no clue how to interpret their language.

[Lulee]

Anybody else got the chorus of the theme song from the 2005 "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" stuck in their heads?  I can see the dolphins all leaping away from the seas as "Goodbye and thanks for all the fish!" rings out.