Author Topic: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator  (Read 12146 times)

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2166
How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« on: October 14, 2016, 11:32:45 AM »
I'm not sure if there's a way to write this post without sounding like I'm paranoid, but I'm really not! 

Motive: I have had no contact with my father for about a decade (my parents weren't married and he's an awful human being, which would have to be its own separate post), but he has made very clear he feels entitled to be involved in my life over the years.  He'll call my workplaces when he figures out where I am working, try to show up downstairs, send me cards for father's day (I am his daughter, to be clear, and that is not a customary thing to do), etc.  I think he's probably a clinical narcissist, and my rejecting him deeply bothers him and messes with his view of his self worth.

History: When I was little he hired various private investigators to follow my estranged half sister, figure out where she worked, take pictures of her (very young) children, etc.  She had broken off contact totally at 10 or 11 for very good reasons.  He used to make my younger sister and I call her at his behest and beg for her to come visit (we were too young to know what was happening), drive us to the city 5 hours away where she and her husband lived so we could patrol the streets for her or her children, etc.  He has a history of going off the deep end and both personally stalking and hiring professionals to gather info.  I'm pretty careful with my online presence, and he doesn't seem to have access to my facebook profile, but I know he carries around printouts of my public profile to show people how successful I am/how much of a c*nt I am for rejecting him as my father for "no reason".

Question: How do I know if he's hired someone to follow/research me?  Is there anything I can do about it, if he has?  I'm expecting my first child in a few months, and he somehow knows where I'm planning on giving birth, which pretty much no one except my husband and doctors know.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 11:37:38 AM by onlykelsey »

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8564
  • Location: Oregon
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2016, 11:35:59 AM »
Wow. I have no idea, but I just wanted to say I am SO sorry. That must be a pretty overwhelming situation, particularly while pregnant.

I look forward to seeing what people have as feedback.

MrsDinero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 11:41:01 AM »
Can you prove that he is following you?  If you can then you can try to file a police report for stalking.  Maybe get a restraining order against him?

I'm sorry this is happening to you.  I can't even imagine how stressful this is for you.

Northwestie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1223
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2016, 11:48:16 AM »
There is no way to know if he is searching electronically -  the forensics of this are way too costly.  But - if you have a hint that you are being physically observed you can always turn the tables and hire someone yourself to shadow your shadower.  If actionable information is dug up in this process you could then go to the police for a restraining order.

And - my condolences.  It sounds complicated.

Lis

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 774
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2016, 12:38:40 PM »
I have no idea about the legalities regarding private investigating and stalking (just because Person A pays Person B to stalk Person C, that makes it okay??).

I would (and any lawyer/law enforcement agent/someone more knowledgeable, correct me if I'm wrong) start by calling my local police station's non-emergency line and ask to speak with someone regarding stalking. You have reason to believe that you are being stalked by someone or that someone has hired someone else to follow you, and what are your options? I have a feeling they'll tell you you can't do anything until you have *proof* (which unfortunately, can be subjective). I'd pay attention to how the officer you talk to responds - are they sympathetic and want to help, but can't yet? Or are they rolling their eyes and not taking you seriously? This will be useful if/when you can take decisive action.

You could also consult a lawyer maybe, but I admit I'm not sure what type of lawyer you'd reach out to.

Best of luck and all the internet hugs to you - this sounds like an extremely shitty situation and I'm sorry.

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2119
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 10:57:35 AM »
I have experience in this area. Professional espionage agents use what is called a "Surveillance Detection Route" (SDR) to determine if someone is monitoring their movements. I mention this because in the case of espionage, being followed is a case of national security and can be a matter of life and death, so you can be sure it is the go-to method to avoid detection.

Essentially it involves making a few stops along a predetermined route in order to assess if you are being followed. For example, if you are driving home from work, you could make planned stops at the dry cleaner to pick up your laundry, a restaurant to pick up your dinner, and a drug store to shop around a few minutes. At each place, you freeze the action for a moment and note who is around you in the parking lot, the store, the area, etc. You can sit in your car a moment and take note of any other cars that pull in at the same time or stop around you, or anyone who follows you into a store or seems to be sitting in the parking lot with no discernible purpose other than following you. If you notice the same car or person twice during your entire SDR, you are definitely being followed. Since you are going about regular, everyday events, it arouses no credible suspicion in anyone following you. That is, it's a solid way to determine if anyone is following you without looking suspicious or being confrontational yourself.

Also, you should stop being predictable in your movements. Start varying your routes and your times so you are not predictable with where you are and when you'll be there.

Now, not knowing the full back story of your father and what he's capable of, I wouldn't know what to advise for further action if you determine you are indeed being followed. That is, whether or not you should confront your follower, take pictures or video of them, notify local law enforcement, etc. would depend on the circumstances. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more advice. Without knowing more, my default advice would be to write down in a journal anyone you notice following you. Note the date, time, their appearance, where you were, their car's make/model/color/license/etc., and any other info you can gather. If you can safely and surreptitiously take a picture or video with your phone, that would be excellent evidence to provide a solid case for stalking. Once you've established any kind of pattern with being followed, the police should not be dismissive of you.

Also, I've written a book on the subject of personal protection in case you'd like to get it. It's called "Get Off The X" by Scott Richardson (a pseudonym) and I wrote it specifically to address situations like yours, with advice for protecting yourself in all kinds of situations at home and when out and about. You can find it on Amazon, IBooks, etc.

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4208
  • Location: WDC
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 11:38:11 AM »
Cameras.  These are cheap enough and mobile enough to have them with you and on your property.   If someone is following you, you should be able to get some photos that might be useful later if you need to make a case. 

I'd get an Arlo 4-pack for home -- very easy to use and set up. 
Maybe a Go-pro type camera for when you're on the move -- in your car - point one forward and back.  I would keep it running on all of your errands around town. 


Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3445
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 01:21:08 PM »
Ditto cameras.

Given the behaviour you've described I would assume that he/an associate can see your Facebook profile. It only takes one of your Facebook friends to have their password guessed or cracked. Or a joint acquaintance think they are being helpful by sharing some information.

You are not sounding paranoid.


cchrissyy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1049
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 01:54:25 PM »
You definitely don't sound paranoid. Sorry for the tough situation. I think you should get familiar with your state's stalking and harassment laws and take this seriously.


As far as your question,

https://www.quora.com/Could-using-a-Private-Investigator-ever-be-considered-stalking-by-proxy

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 05:09:48 PM »
Could someone be following your husband? If he is not as careful with his information as you are, it may have been leaked through his unintentional negligence.

Bicycle_B

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1804
  • Mustachian-ish in Live Music Capital of the World
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 05:59:59 PM »
Just offering ideas here (no special expertise, just a news junkie).  Different jurisdictions seem to have varied responses to stalking - some dismissive, some very respectful.  Maybe check online to learn the experience of others in your city/town, and various nearby areas.  Might be informative.  Might even lead you to spend more time in one jurisdiction than another.

Good luck.  Sad to hear you have to deal with such a creepy situation.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28292
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 06:08:41 PM »
Wow, that's unfortunate, I'm sorry.

Big +1 to gathering evidence for eventual restraining order (e.g. documented times of him showing up at your work, contacting you--how do you know he knows where the hospital is?, etc.)

I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

paddedhat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 07:13:18 AM »
Just offering ideas here (no special expertise, just a news junkie). Different jurisdictions seem to have varied responses to stalking - some dismissive, some very respectful.  Maybe check online to learn the experience of others in your city/town, and various nearby areas.  Might be informative.  Might even lead you to spend more time in one jurisdiction than another.

Good luck.  Sad to hear you have to deal with such a creepy situation.

I was quite shocked to discover that "stalking" by an investigator is tolerated by our state police. Our small, very rural, neighborhood had a case of a major phone company who decided to harass an employee, who was out on workman's comp. They started by being a bit covert, hiring "undercover" detectives. These chucklenuts racked up the billable hours, sitting in the dark woods, on a stump,  smoking cartons of cigarettes. They then decided to park vans on the street, within sight of the employees home, and watch the home 24/7. Neighbors started to harass these clowns by parking them in, and repeatedly knocking on the vans to determine why the idiots were there. The PA. state police were contacted several times, by both sides, and refused to either make the investigators leave, or protect them from being harassed by neighbors.  In the end, it seemed like the investigators got sick of dealing with confrontations, and moved on.  Pretty disappointing to discover that one of the world's largest corporations can hire a firm to overtly stalk you, and there isn't a thing that can be done.

Papa Mustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Location: Humidity, USA
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2016, 10:54:48 AM »
Make sure that none of your family or friends are communicating with him. Siblings especially.

Example: I went out with a girl once a long, long time ago. For a couple of years after HS despite me moving around the country and even overseas on job assignments, I was getting mail from her expressing wishes that we get back together. It was a one time blind date. Nice, smart and funny - but too clingy and determined for me...

Turned out that my elderly neighbor also knew her (odd since the girl lived across town, different school) and neighbor was feeding her my updated mailing addresses that neighbor got from my parents.

Once I figured it out, I told my family to quit updating my neighbor with my addresses and the problem tapered off.

Also - use dashcams as someone already mentioned. You might want to look for something that is discrete. The investigator might not try as hard to be invisible if they don't know they are being recorded. You don't want them walking past your parked car at work and seeing the camera(s). Something that clips to the sunvisors might work good. Something with quality optics like a GoPro so you can see license plate numbers.

Shred every piece of paper. Go to electronic statements wherever possible. I'd also abandon social media but that's just me. Again - your father might not be looking for you first hand, he might have someone else like a sibling doing the foot work for him.

A Google search might reveal other people discussing online any investigator you discover following you around town by license plate number after they too were being followed.  Much like folks search for phone numbers who cold call them.

Also, don't answer the phone - ever. Let voice mail or an answering machine do the screening. We've gone through cycles at home where calls come frequently and then someone hangs up if we answer. Best I can tell it is a robocall system trying to establish what hours we are at home so telemarketers can call back during those hours to waste our time. So we never answer - and the calls decrease in frequency for months at a time. The election increased the frequency for a while. Once upon a time we were getting 4-5 calls an evening about refinancing our mortgage.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 10:56:44 AM by Joe Lucky »

No Name Guy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Location: Western Washington
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2016, 01:57:44 PM »
What Joe said in re info leaking via friends or other people. 

Who, exactly, knows what hospital you're having your child at?  Who did they tell?  There's the place to start with respect to the "leak".  If it really is only your husband and doctors (which it isn't since you said, "pretty much"), then one of them is the leak. 

Once you plug the leak, change the hospital without telling anyone EXCEPT the hubs and docs, but keep publicly using the old hospital as the "where you are going" (dis-information).  Have a "last minute" change when the time comes due to a "problem at the hospital" you were going to use, and communicate this only as necessary to those you actually want to show at the hospital.  Tell them to not spill it since you are "tired and want to enjoy the privacy' with your new baby for the first few days.  Do you really want this guy showing at the hospital?

Carefully vet your FB profile - you'd be surprised how much is there I suspect.  Scrub your "friends" list....carefully.  Consider adjusting your privacy settings to tighten it up even more.  Unless you actually know a person in the physical world....unfriend them, or put them on a privacy filter list in FB.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7347
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2016, 04:24:34 AM »
How do you know that he knows where you are giving birth?  It seems to me that you probably still have mutual acquaintances, in order for you to have been made aware that he knows.  It's far more likely then, that these connections are the source of the leaked info.  You say that no one knows, other than you, your husband and your doctor.  But think carefully to make sure you haven't given anything away.  Even things like posting a sonogram photo that has doctor's information on it, or noting that you went to lunch at X place after an appointment (with X being in the neighborhood of a hospital) can provide all the info someone would need.  Heck, someone telling you that your father knows you are giving birth at St. Mustachian hospital could even have been fishing for info, and your reaction may have confirmed what was, until then, a guess.  It certainly isn't impossible that he's hired someone, but it seems much more likely that he's pricing together info using those close to you, who may not even know they are being used.

I would also alert the hospital upon check in for the birth that you have concerns about someone trying to gain access to your room, and you want to make 100% sure that only those you specifically give permission to will be allowed in to see you.


onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2166
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2016, 02:04:02 PM »
Thanks, all, for the feedback. I'm starting to clarify and respond below.  And a general thanks for condolences, etc.

Can you prove that he is following you?  If you can then you can try to file a police report for stalking.  Maybe get a restraining order against him?

I'm sorry this is happening to you.  I can't even imagine how stressful this is for you.

He is such a psycho.  He's nearly 80 so I am grimly hoping I won't have to deal with too much of this, but with my luck, he'll probably outlive me...

Wow. I have no idea, but I just wanted to say I am SO sorry. That must be a pretty overwhelming situation, particularly while pregnant.

I look forward to seeing what people have as feedback.

No, I can't.  I probably could have a few years ago when he last went on a stalking bender, but I definitely can't prove anything now.  Especially if he/an investigator is just using public information, I don't think there's anything illegal about what he's doing. 

There is no way to know if he is searching electronically -  the forensics of this are way too costly.  But - if you have a hint that you are being physically observed you can always turn the tables and hire someone yourself to shadow your shadower.  If actionable information is dug up in this process you could then go to the police for a restraining order.

And - my condolences.  It sounds complicated.

Because I'm an attorney who passed the bar (and, perhaps stupidly, bought real property in my own name rather than through an LLC...), I'll always be traceable to him to some extent, unfortunately.  I live in Manhattan and have no idea how I would even know if he had an old school investigator physically following me. 

I have no idea about the legalities regarding private investigating and stalking (just because Person A pays Person B to stalk Person C, that makes it okay??).

I would (and any lawyer/law enforcement agent/someone more knowledgeable, correct me if I'm wrong) start by calling my local police station's non-emergency line and ask to speak with someone regarding stalking. You have reason to believe that you are being stalked by someone or that someone has hired someone else to follow you, and what are your options? I have a feeling they'll tell you you can't do anything until you have *proof* (which unfortunately, can be subjective). I'd pay attention to how the officer you talk to responds - are they sympathetic and want to help, but can't yet? Or are they rolling their eyes and not taking you seriously? This will be useful if/when you can take decisive action.

You could also consult a lawyer maybe, but I admit I'm not sure what type of lawyer you'd reach out to.

Best of luck and all the internet hugs to you - this sounds like an extremely shitty situation and I'm sorry.

That's an idea.  I wish I had done this when he was in more full-blown meltdown mode and doing outrageous sloppy things.  What I've learned is that if I'm totally non-responsive, things usually die down for a year or two.  If there's any response (or even if my sister, who maintains a relationship with him, responds and says he's being crazy) it amps things up, so I am not hoping for a meltdown, but it would be useful for documentation...

AlanStache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3298
  • Age: 45
  • Location: South East Virginia
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2016, 03:45:59 PM »
Would you be able to contact the hospitals to preemptively get on a list to have zero information about you disseminated, so if he does walk up to a nurses station they know not to say what room you are in?  In addition could you leak a false expected delivery date so that he would be paying attention at the wrong time.

Down the line, have you thought about how you will screen baby sitters and preschools?

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8564
  • Location: Oregon
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2016, 05:18:23 PM »
Would you be able to contact the hospitals to preemptively get on a list to have zero information about you disseminated, so if he does walk up to a nurses station they know not to say what room you are in?  In addition could you leak a false expected delivery date so that he would be paying attention at the wrong time.

Down the line, have you thought about how you will screen baby sitters and preschools?

When I did my OB rotation, we had a client who we all were briefed on no info no visitors, because Dad's family was craaaaaazy- had tried to abduct her first kid. ANYWAY, yes, this is a thing that happens and you can talk to them about it.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28292
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2016, 05:56:59 PM »
how do you know he knows where the hospital is?

How do you know that he knows where you are giving birth?

Still curious about this.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5278
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: How to tell if you're being followed by a private investigator
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2016, 07:59:42 PM »
  If there's any response (or even if my sister, who maintains a relationship with him, responds and says he's being crazy) it amps things up, so I am not hoping for a meltdown, but it would be useful for documentation...

This is the very first step in a behavior extinction program. No reinforcement of the behavior, period.