Author Topic: How much will non-vaxxing by GOP reduce the population of voting age republicans  (Read 87152 times)

MudPuppy

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Recall that some of them swore on their deathbeds that it wasn't COVID killing them
not to party poop, but I wish I didn’t recall these things. I lived them. People who would who verbally abused the entire staff until they literally didn’t have the breath to do so. That’s a fucked up feeling, waiting outside the room until they get bad enough to not fight when you when you bring the intubation box in. And then you have people who shouldn’t have died and the moments when you tell the people left behind that they did. Ultimately, I quit the job.

sui generis

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Recall that some of them swore on their deathbeds that it wasn't COVID killing them
not to party poop, but I wish I didn’t recall these things. I lived them. People who would who verbally abused the entire staff until they literally didn’t have the breath to do so. That’s a fucked up feeling, waiting outside the room until they get bad enough to not fight when you when you bring the intubation box in. And then you have people who shouldn’t have died and the moments when you tell the people left behind that they did. Ultimately, I quit the job.

Oh man, that is a rough burden to carry. Sorry it went that way and you had to deal with it. It really shouldn't have gone that way.

PDXTabs

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

sui generis

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

PDXTabs

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 09:50:57 PM by PDXTabs »

Just Joe

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The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones. Oh, and they believe in personal responsibility over government hand outs. They're not "uneducated and gullible" in a vacuum. Their choices affect other people. Recall that some of them swore on their deathbeds that it wasn't COVID killing them, they're attacking people just for wearing masks in public, they're suing hospitals for not prescribing unproven livestock medication, and the people they elected are leading the charge.

If a choice has to be made to allocate scarce resources between someone who has made every attempt to do right by themselves and their community, and someone who ignores medical advice and defiantly/recklessly/violently gets sick and injured and swears by their personal decisions? No question.

Absolutely b/c profits come first. The "Chamber of Commerce" members can't have a bad year. Must keep the restaurants open, the stores open, the schools open (so people can go to work and help their employers continue to make money). Money is more important than lives and the GOP message will be adapted to achieve the profits.

GuitarStv

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.

Nobody should be denied medical care for their beliefs - religious, political, or scientific.  Even if those beliefs are patently stupid and harmful.  It's a dangerous path to even contemplate going down.

Look at those who follow homeopathy and homeopathic cures.  They're 100% reality denying bullshit.  Diluting something with water (sometimes alcohol) does not make it a powerful cure.  Yet when the bullshit fails and the person needs real medical care, are they refused because they were dumb enough to buy into the lie?  Last survey I read, a quarter of Americans believe that homeopathy is legit.

If you're going to hold off on giving vaccine denying Republicans care, then you're also going to need to deny 'alternative medicine' folks care too.  The damage and denialism is real in both cases. 

But why stop there?  Why not deny people who do risky things medical care?  Nobody needs to go downhill skiing.  It's a risky sport.  Shouldn't we be prioritizing people who don't risk their health?

This is a bad path to set down.

sui generis

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.

Nobody should be denied medical care for their beliefs - religious, political, or scientific.  Even if those beliefs are patently stupid and harmful.  It's a dangerous path to even contemplate going down.

Look at those who follow homeopathy and homeopathic cures.  They're 100% reality denying bullshit.  Diluting something with water (sometimes alcohol) does not make it a powerful cure.  Yet when the bullshit fails and the person needs real medical care, are they refused because they were dumb enough to buy into the lie?  Last survey I read, a quarter of Americans believe that homeopathy is legit.

If you're going to hold off on giving vaccine denying Republicans care, then you're also going to need to deny 'alternative medicine' folks care too.  The damage and denialism is real in both cases. 

But why stop there?  Why not deny people who do risky things medical care?  Nobody needs to go downhill skiing.  It's a risky sport.  Shouldn't we be prioritizing people who don't risk their health?

This is a bad path to set down.

While I would generally agree, I think there is a time where it is not only appropriate but important to do this as a public health measure, and that is when these beliefs are causing people to consume so much medical care that other people cannot get medical care.

No one was ever turned away from 5 hospitals and had to be life-flighted 3 states away for their urgent cardiac care because the homeopathy crowd is using up all the ICU beds. In fact, this hasn't been the situation for any bad decisions ever. Until COVID.

This is a unique case and is an easy way to distinguish when these measures should and should not be implemented.

GuitarStv

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.

Nobody should be denied medical care for their beliefs - religious, political, or scientific.  Even if those beliefs are patently stupid and harmful.  It's a dangerous path to even contemplate going down.

Look at those who follow homeopathy and homeopathic cures.  They're 100% reality denying bullshit.  Diluting something with water (sometimes alcohol) does not make it a powerful cure.  Yet when the bullshit fails and the person needs real medical care, are they refused because they were dumb enough to buy into the lie?  Last survey I read, a quarter of Americans believe that homeopathy is legit.

If you're going to hold off on giving vaccine denying Republicans care, then you're also going to need to deny 'alternative medicine' folks care too.  The damage and denialism is real in both cases. 

But why stop there?  Why not deny people who do risky things medical care?  Nobody needs to go downhill skiing.  It's a risky sport.  Shouldn't we be prioritizing people who don't risk their health?

This is a bad path to set down.

While I would generally agree, I think there is a time where it is not only appropriate but important to do this as a public health measure, and that is when these beliefs are causing people to consume so much medical care that other people cannot get medical care.

No one was ever turned away from 5 hospitals and had to be life-flighted 3 states away for their urgent cardiac care because the homeopathy crowd is using up all the ICU beds. In fact, this hasn't been the situation for any bad decisions ever. Until COVID.

This is a unique case and is an easy way to distinguish when these measures should and should not be implemented.

Covid anti-vaccine folks are an easy group to point fingers at because they are simple to track.

I don't think we really keep stats on the damage that followers of homeopathy cause, but (given that they're drinking small vials of water and taking sugar pills rather than follow proper medicine) would expect that they also increase the load on hospitals during stressful times like this pandemic.

LaineyAZ

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Reminds me of the public debate here in the 2000s in the U.S. about whether health care is a "right" or a "privilege."

Of course, Republican legislators were in the "it's a privilege" camp, and were anti the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare due to their knee-jerk anti-anything the Democrats were proposing.  They were all fine with defining health care as a privilege because their thought process was that you just had to go get a job that offered health insurance as a benefit.  And if you were unlucky enough to not get such a job, then oh well ...
So they all voted against it but fortunately, due to the razor-thin majority the Democrats had at the time, the ACA passed in 2010.

That's why many of us find it ironic that these same Republican voters are the majority of anti-vaxxers.  Even with a vaccine offered for free for everyone, they would rather die. 

sui generis

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Getting COVID isn't comparable at all to being addicted to a very addicting drug like cigarettes.  In response, my DH suggested to me that the right wing, anti-vaxx, conspiracy theories might in fact be comparable to cigarette addiction.

Also, has a single government official expressed skepticism in the vaccine? If I'm a gullible person with a 10th grade education might I trust that government official? Might they have convinced me the be skeptical of the vaccine? If that is the case, perhaps it is immoral to deny me the medical care I need just because I'm uneducated and gullible.

I think that not actively denouncing antivaxx rhetoric did a lot of damage. And I think those who didn’t actively denounce knew that it would result in harm but they didn’t care be because vote$

The GOP made denouncing of any COVID medical advice from the professionals their election platform. Those "gullible" people declared themselves competent, voted, and cried out that anyone who weren't them were the gullible ones.

That is a factually incorrect statement. There were 331.4M people in the USA in 2020 and only 74.2M voted for the GOP presidential candidate. Most people in the USA do not vote.

I'm missing what you are pointing out is factually untrue.  It looks like you are correcting someone saying something about how many people voted and/or voted for Trump in 2020, but I don't see any claims about that in the above.  What am I missing?

I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.

Nobody should be denied medical care for their beliefs - religious, political, or scientific.  Even if those beliefs are patently stupid and harmful.  It's a dangerous path to even contemplate going down.

Look at those who follow homeopathy and homeopathic cures.  They're 100% reality denying bullshit.  Diluting something with water (sometimes alcohol) does not make it a powerful cure.  Yet when the bullshit fails and the person needs real medical care, are they refused because they were dumb enough to buy into the lie?  Last survey I read, a quarter of Americans believe that homeopathy is legit.

If you're going to hold off on giving vaccine denying Republicans care, then you're also going to need to deny 'alternative medicine' folks care too.  The damage and denialism is real in both cases. 

But why stop there?  Why not deny people who do risky things medical care?  Nobody needs to go downhill skiing.  It's a risky sport.  Shouldn't we be prioritizing people who don't risk their health?

This is a bad path to set down.

While I would generally agree, I think there is a time where it is not only appropriate but important to do this as a public health measure, and that is when these beliefs are causing people to consume so much medical care that other people cannot get medical care.

No one was ever turned away from 5 hospitals and had to be life-flighted 3 states away for their urgent cardiac care because the homeopathy crowd is using up all the ICU beds. In fact, this hasn't been the situation for any bad decisions ever. Until COVID.

This is a unique case and is an easy way to distinguish when these measures should and should not be implemented.

Covid anti-vaccine folks are an easy group to point fingers at because they are simple to track.

I don't think we really keep stats on the damage that followers of homeopathy cause, but (given that they're drinking small vials of water and taking sugar pills rather than follow proper medicine) would expect that they also increase the load on hospitals during stressful times like this pandemic.

But that's exactly it. The anti-vaxxers are the but-for cause of the "stressful times" in the hospitals in the first place. Without them, I'm not sure that ANY hospital would be overextended. You can't say that about the homeopathy crowd. You probably can't say that about the homeopathy crowd plus the "crowds" created by 10 other stupid health decisions people are making. It's the anti-vaxxers that are preventing others from receiving timely health care (to the extent it is happening...I don't want to pretend this is happening to everyone everywhere everyday) and that is the unique thing that is incredibly damaging in a way no other situation is or has been. It's much more urgent to address this.

LaineyAZ

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Double-posting, but I agree with sui generis and others.

The notion of implementing some requirements where those who deliberately refuse to get the Covid vaccine would go to the back of the line is very antithetical to modern medicine's mandate to care for all equally.

However, as we found during this pandemic, resources are not infinite.  We have to acknowledge that fact. 

And the fact that our society has already been allowing some patients to be prioritized based on whether they can pay, e.g., mental health care, dental, vision, hearing, care for disabled, etc.  The U.S. can't seem to pass the Medicare for All legislation despite being the only developed country that doesn't offer it and despite the majority of the country in favor of it. 
So we continue to muddle along watching one after another suffer and die too early.   

Villanelle

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Maybe it has been covered, but I'm not sure how down-prioritizing someone who won't get a Covid vax is different than down-listing someone who needs an organ transplant but is an alcoholic.  Their choices mean their outcome is less likely to be good, so the limited resource goes to someone more likely to have a better outcome.

Maybe this depends on whether we are talking about not treating (in the face of immediately limited resources) someone who *had* refused to get vaccinated vs. someone who had previously refused but now swears in their life...almost literally... that they will get vaccinated as soon as they are medically cleared to do so, so please treat them now.  Just like a new liver might go to an alcoholic who swears they are done drinking and convinces a doctor they mean it, but not to someone who says they will have a beer after surgery.

theoverlook

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Ok, time´s up.
[..]
A high level of immunity of vaccination after post-COVID-19, as well as of a third shot after initial vaccination can be expected within 7-10 days - just in time for the arrival of Omicron.


Thanks for the reminder, I managed to get an appointment for a booster shot same-day and just came back from getting it, partially due to your post reminding me. So don't feel like your posts are shouting into the void.

PeteD01

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Ok, time´s up.
[..]
A high level of immunity of vaccination after post-COVID-19, as well as of a third shot after initial vaccination can be expected within 7-10 days - just in time for the arrival of Omicron.


Thanks for the reminder, I managed to get an appointment for a booster shot same-day and just came back from getting it, partially due to your post reminding me. So don't feel like your posts are shouting into the void.

Thank you for the feedback - appreciate it!

I also would like to point out that the CDC changed its guidance, 48 hours after my post, to more strongly recommending third dose vaccinations in all over 18 years old 6 months after initial vaccinations.
There is agreement among experts on what to do in respect to vaccinations at this point in time.
Of course, we cannot help those who wish to be confused for whatever reason and who loudly complain whenever guidance changes, and who will inevitably come out of the woodwork with the updated CDC guidance released yesterday - they can safely be ignored.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/health/cdc-booster-guidance-omicron/index.html
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 06:32:05 AM by PeteD01 »

LennStar

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For me it's still 2 month until booster. Maybe I even get the omicran adapted Moderna/Bointech then. They could make it just in time.

Yesterday I read an article about the first vaccination in Germany/Bavaria. Smallpox. (btw. the Wikipedia article should have a trigger warning) At least 10 times as deadly as corona and assorted bad effects. At that time, everyone knew at least one who had died from it.
 
Still a vast part of the people didn't wanted the vaccine - for the fucking same reasons as today (well, and that children start to sound like a cow because the vaccine was made from cow pox, that's not used in case of Corona but only because cows don't play a role).
It was not until the king put a heavy fine on not being vaccinated until the situation got better.

Those who don't learn from history...

ChpBstrd

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For me it's still 2 month until booster. Maybe I even get the omicran adapted Moderna/Bointech then. They could make it just in time.

Yesterday I read an article about the first vaccination in Germany/Bavaria. Smallpox. (btw. the Wikipedia article should have a trigger warning) At least 10 times as deadly as corona and assorted bad effects. At that time, everyone knew at least one who had died from it.
 
Still a vast part of the people didn't wanted the vaccine - for the fucking same reasons as today (well, and that children start to sound like a cow because the vaccine was made from cow pox, that's not used in case of Corona but only because cows don't play a role).
It was not until the king put a heavy fine on not being vaccinated until the situation got better.

Those who don't learn from history...

The anti-vaxxers are always with us...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/11/polio-vaccine-antivaxxer-history-duon-miller.html

Travis

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I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.


Took a few days off out of town, but I'm back and I owe you all a response. I was taking exception to your remark that anti-vax Republicans are somehow just uneducated and vulnerable to persuasion.  The size of this crowd is not small. They appear to come from all across the US and from various economic and social backgrounds. They're intelligent enough to make informed decisions, and they're still making the decision to oppose any measure that might combat this virus. And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Reminds me of the public debate here in the 2000s in the U.S. about whether health care is a "right" or a "privilege."
...
That's why many of us find it ironic that these same Republican voters are the majority of anti-vaxxers.  Even with a vaccine offered for free for everyone, they would rather die.

I'm not advocating a political test for health care, but I want to point out the hypocrisy that if the GOP had it their way a decade ago, the number of uninsured requiring COVID treatment would be in the millions with hospitals looking to their state governments for financial aid far beyond what they've already had to do to the point of it likely breaking state governments. I don't give a damn what a homeopath does with his or her time. Generally speaking, their choices don't affect me. On the other hand, the GOP made spreading a virus around the country something to be proud of. Now anti-insurance, anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-anything a Democrat might suggest folks have been flooding ERs after having coughed all over everybody they know and demanding treatment.  A doctor is going to treat them with the resources he has, but somewhere there's a hospital running out of oxygen, medication, and even a bed to stick them in. Our overworked medical system is going to require years to recover from this and it isn't over yet (and you can count on that effort being underfunded).  This anti-authoritarian streak has infected my army as well with Privates all the way up to Generals defying the federal government because a handful of Republican politicians convinced them this vaccine is somehow different from the dozens we're required to get already, and that they should disobey lawful orders because its a Democrat giving them.  This isn't the result of a handful of "gullible" people.

deborah

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From what I've read, only 70% of eligible voters are actually registered to vote in the US. There are also quite a number of people in the US population who are not eligible - children, migrants... I suspect that 66% of registered voters equates to less than 50% of the total US population. Thus, it's probable that most people in the US don't vote.

alsoknownasDean

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Given how insurance plays a big role in healthcare in the US, have any insurance companies proposed either a higher deductible, higher premiums or a denial of coverage to those who are unvaccinated by choice and subsequently catch Covid?

Kind of like what Singapore is proposing with their public system but for private insurance.

MudPuppy

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I believe that there was an airline that made premiums higher for unvaccinated employees.

nereo

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And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Just to quibble a bit on this point - Deborah already outlined why this “66% voted” can be very misleading, but I think it’s worth delving to a bit more deeply. 
Biden officially received just over 81MM votes, Trump 74MM.  In 2020 the US population was 329.5MM

That means 24.9% of the population voted for Biden, 22.5% for Trump.  Roughly 174 million didn’t vote for either candidate, and almost all of those didn’t vote at all. Now about 74 million are under the age of 18, but that still leaves 100MM adults living in the US who didn’t vote at all.  The lions share of those are eligible votes who just didn’t turn out (44% of the registered voter population who didn’t show up plus ~56 million eligible voters who aren’t registered).  Then there’s several million people who are ineligible for legal reasons (citizen status, convicted felon, etc).

So while it’s great to have “record high voter turnout” it’s also necessary to be critical and examine why we have way more eligible but absent voters than people who voted for either candidate, and why we still can’t seem to crack 50% participation in one of the most publicized elections of our lives.

PDXTabs

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And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Just to quibble a bit on this point - Deborah already outlined why this “66% voted” can be very misleading, but I think it’s worth delving to a bit more deeply. 
Biden officially received just over 81MM votes, Trump 74MM.  In 2020 the US population was 329.5MM

That means 24.9% of the population voted for Biden, 22.5% for Trump.  Roughly 174 million didn’t vote for either candidate, and almost all of those didn’t vote at all. Now about 74 million are under the age of 18, but that still leaves 100MM adults living in the US who didn’t vote at all.  The lions share of those are eligible votes who just didn’t turn out (44% of the registered voter population who didn’t show up plus ~56 million eligible voters who aren’t registered).  Then there’s several million people who are ineligible for legal reasons (citizen status, convicted felon, etc).

Exactly right. Because we were discussing people (not registered voters, not eligible voters) getting COVID and receiving medical care. In a typical voting year ~40% of the population votes.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 10:22:45 AM by PDXTabs »

PeteD01

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More on third dose vaccinations (booster shots):

"As recently as last week, many public health experts were fiercely opposed to the Biden administration’s campaign to roll out booster shots of the coronavirus vaccines to all American adults. There was little scientific evidence to support extra doses for most people, the researchers said.
The Omicron variant has changed all that."


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html

Travis

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And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Just to quibble a bit on this point - Deborah already outlined why this “66% voted” can be very misleading, but I think it’s worth delving to a bit more deeply. 
Biden officially received just over 81MM votes, Trump 74MM.  In 2020 the US population was 329.5MM

That means 24.9% of the population voted for Biden, 22.5% for Trump.  Roughly 174 million didn’t vote for either candidate, and almost all of those didn’t vote at all. Now about 74 million are under the age of 18, but that still leaves 100MM adults living in the US who didn’t vote at all.  The lions share of those are eligible votes who just didn’t turn out (44% of the registered voter population who didn’t show up plus ~56 million eligible voters who aren’t registered).  Then there’s several million people who are ineligible for legal reasons (citizen status, convicted felon, etc).

Exactly right. Because we were discussing people (not registered voters, not eligible voters) getting COVID and receiving medical care. In a typical voting year ~40% of the population votes.

And I can't believe we're actually arguing this - you're including children in a discussion of people making medical decisions/body autonomy? You set the bar at having a 10th grade education and being influenced by politicians.

PDXTabs

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And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Just to quibble a bit on this point - Deborah already outlined why this “66% voted” can be very misleading, but I think it’s worth delving to a bit more deeply. 
Biden officially received just over 81MM votes, Trump 74MM.  In 2020 the US population was 329.5MM

That means 24.9% of the population voted for Biden, 22.5% for Trump.  Roughly 174 million didn’t vote for either candidate, and almost all of those didn’t vote at all. Now about 74 million are under the age of 18, but that still leaves 100MM adults living in the US who didn’t vote at all.  The lions share of those are eligible votes who just didn’t turn out (44% of the registered voter population who didn’t show up plus ~56 million eligible voters who aren’t registered).  Then there’s several million people who are ineligible for legal reasons (citizen status, convicted felon, etc).

Exactly right. Because we were discussing people (not registered voters, not eligible voters) getting COVID and receiving medical care. In a typical voting year ~40% of the population votes.

And I can't believe we're actually arguing this - you're including children in a discussion of people making medical decisions/body autonomy? You set the bar at having a 10th grade education and being influenced by politicians.

First of all, that's this new thing we've been working on called an example.

Second of all I live in Oregon where the age of consent for medical treatment is 15.

Omy

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Why shouldn't kids/teenagers be able to participate in/make medical decisions and have body autonomy? I have a niece and nephew who jumped at the chance to get vaccinated. They are 15 and 17 and completely understood the risks and rewards. Their mother would have preferred to wait a few months to see how the teenage population handled the jabs before having her kids vaccinated, but she trusts their judgment.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 11:33:08 AM by Omy »

LennStar

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More on third dose vaccinations (booster shots):

"As recently as last week, many public health experts were fiercely opposed to the Biden administration’s campaign to roll out booster shots of the coronavirus vaccines to all American adults. There was little scientific evidence to support extra doses for most people, the researchers said.
The Omicron variant has changed all that."


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html
Omircron changed nothing, if at all Omicron could be woven as an argument against booster.

Data from e.g. Israel has even 2 month ago shown that booster not only work and are needed because immuity drop off sharply, but also that they increase the safety level by a magnitude.

Rusted Rose

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I guess that it depends on who exactly Travis is replying to. If Travis is only in reference to the people who actually voted for anti-vax candidates, then fine. But should we be denying medical care based on who you voted for? Because my original post includes a bunch of people that just didn't vote, because most people don't vote.


Took a few days off out of town, but I'm back and I owe you all a response. I was taking exception to your remark that anti-vax Republicans are somehow just uneducated and vulnerable to persuasion.  The size of this crowd is not small. They appear to come from all across the US and from various economic and social backgrounds. They're intelligent enough to make informed decisions, and they're still making the decision to oppose any measure that might combat this virus. And to your remark that "most people in the US don't vote," voter turnout last year was the highest in 100 years at 66%.


Reminds me of the public debate here in the 2000s in the U.S. about whether health care is a "right" or a "privilege."
...
That's why many of us find it ironic that these same Republican voters are the majority of anti-vaxxers.  Even with a vaccine offered for free for everyone, they would rather die.

I'm not advocating a political test for health care, but I want to point out the hypocrisy that if the GOP had it their way a decade ago, the number of uninsured requiring COVID treatment would be in the millions with hospitals looking to their state governments for financial aid far beyond what they've already had to do to the point of it likely breaking state governments. I don't give a damn what a homeopath does with his or her time. Generally speaking, their choices don't affect me. On the other hand, the GOP made spreading a virus around the country something to be proud of. Now anti-insurance, anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-anything a Democrat might suggest folks have been flooding ERs after having coughed all over everybody they know and demanding treatment.  A doctor is going to treat them with the resources he has, but somewhere there's a hospital running out of oxygen, medication, and even a bed to stick them in. Our overworked medical system is going to require years to recover from this and it isn't over yet (and you can count on that effort being underfunded).  This anti-authoritarian streak has infected my army as well with Privates all the way up to Generals defying the federal government because a handful of Republican politicians convinced them this vaccine is somehow different from the dozens we're required to get already, and that they should disobey lawful orders because its a Democrat giving them.  This isn't the result of a handful of "gullible" people.

First, I will say that I agree with your overall sentiments, but I did want to respond to the idea that these are anti-authoritarians, because I feel this distinction is important.

These people are 100% authoritarian.

The difference here is that they cannot see leaders as anything BUT embodied authority because that's what they believe leaders ought to be--basically dictators (rather than any other kind of leader) and in this case they are simply anti THIS putative "authority"'s authority. They are all about following their choice of absolute authority. That's why they spew nonsense about Biden being a dictator. It's not that they don't like the principle of dictators.

We don't see all leaders as dictators, and we are against the principle no matter who the leader in question is. We don't follow Biden the way anyone would follow a dictator, which is another thing the right-wingers get wrong because that's not the choice they would make. We are anti-authoritarian. It doesn't mean we don't listen to or act in accordance with the laws and directives of our leaders.

Authoritarian followers insist on a green sky and deny reality and facts on their chosen dictator's say-so, and that's what makes them so dangerous.

The discussion at https://theauthoritarians.org/ is a study of this mindset, which is of course not surprisingly just like that of any follower of other dictators.

PDXTabs

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Why shouldn't kids/teenagers be able to participate in/make medical decisions and have body autonomy?

Indeed! I got my Hepatitis B series in school at 15 because I was allowed to consent. But if I had refused to consent I like to think that I wouldn't have been condemned to a lifetime of poor treatment.

PeteD01

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More on third dose vaccinations (booster shots):

"As recently as last week, many public health experts were fiercely opposed to the Biden administration’s campaign to roll out booster shots of the coronavirus vaccines to all American adults. There was little scientific evidence to support extra doses for most people, the researchers said.
The Omicron variant has changed all that."


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html
Omircron changed nothing, if at all Omicron could be woven as an argument against booster.

Data from e.g. Israel has even 2 month ago shown that booster not only work and are needed because immuity drop off sharply, but also that they increase the safety level by a magnitude.

The above is a quote from the article and, with careful reading, it is clear that it is the researchers who did not think that third shots are necessary who changed their mind because of Omicron.
As far as I am concerned, I do not even think that calling the third shot a booster is correct. The RNA vaccines were initially investigated as a two injection schedule but experience has shown that it is more appropriate to call the third injection the third injection of a three injection series.
A booster shot is generally understood as a periodic boost (every 10 years with tetanus for example) to bring immunity back up to initial levels.
The third shot of the RNA vaccines results in a qualitatively and quantitatively much improved immunity.
The Israeli study and others like it just confirm that it is more appropriate to think of the RNA vaccinations as three injection vaccination series and to consider everyone who has had only two shots as incompletely vaccinated.
The reason why this is not a minor issue is that a third shot much improves immunity over initial immunity and that would not be expected from a mere booster shot. The third shot is superior to what is generally understood as a booster shot.

What Omicron changed dramatically is the need for early vaccination after recovery from COVID. While it is clear that previous infection results in robust immunity possibly outlasting vaccinations, this immunity does not sufficiently extend to Omicron. There has been a lot of pressure to recognize previous infection as equivalent to vaccination and Omicron has put this idea to rest and has thereby simplified negotiations regarding vaccine mandates.
Omicron means for the COVID survivors that they cannot rely at all on natural immunity for protection and that they need to get vaccinated ASAP.

Omicron also puts to rest the notion of achieving herd immunity via natural immunity.
This idea of naturally acquired herd immunity has been largely discredited, but GOP politicians who have promoted anti-vaxxerism and anti-maskism and anti-mandatism have no other backup to rescue themselves from eventually having to face responsibility for delaying effective disease management among their constituents.
All this has basically blown up in their face with Omicron.
One has to consider that although the situation in undervaxxed areas appears like a succession of events (deaths, hospitalizations, etc), the reality is that the consequences of these events are not going away any time soon, that is they are cumulative. Every death, hospitalization or chronic disability from COVID hits not just an individual but most often a family whose lives are permanently changed often through financial devastation. Families are not monolithic in their thinking and I believe, and have seen some good evidence, that a lot of bad blood is being created with each day going by. The GOP is trying to harness a force of nature to further their ends and might find itself riding a tiger.

edit: added video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsdQ7HDKfis&t=41s

 
I think there is a good chance that we are seeing the beginnings of the slow COVID death squeeze in the undervaxxed areas of the country. This death squeeze does not only involve deaths from COVID but also the inability of chronically overtaxed hospitals to provide non-COVID care. Add to that the financial duress imposed by medical bills and by long term disability and one has a recipe for a grim future for many families unless vaccinations go up dramatically.


Edit: The topic is "How much will non-vaxxing by GOP reduce the population of voting age republicans". The anti-vaxxerism of the GOP can reduce the population of voting age republicans not only through attrition from death but also from loss of confidence in their, largely absent, leadership competence. In any case, they have lost control long ago and all we can see is the struggle to get in front of the parade.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 05:07:48 PM by PeteD01 »

PDXTabs

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A booster shot is generally understood as a periodic boost (every 10 years with tetanus for example) to bring immunity back up to initial levels.

Yup, and Hepatitis B is three shots over six months.

Omricon also puts to rest the notion of achieving herd immunity via natural immunity.

Yes, but might it also put to rest any chance of herd immunity? I'm not sure, I don't believe that we have any good data yet on R0 or Rt.

ChpBstrd

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Omricon also puts to rest the notion of achieving herd immunity via natural immunity.
This idea of naturally acquired herd immunity has been largely discredited, but GOP politicians who have promoted anti-vaxxerism and anti-maskism and anti-mandatism have no other backup to rescue themselves from eventually having to face responsibility for delaying effective disease management among their constituents.
All this has basically blown up in their face with Omricon.
One has to consider that although the situation in undervaxxed areas appears like a succession of events (deaths, hospitalizations, etc), the reality is that the consequences of these events are not going away any time soon, that is they are cumulative. Every death, hosptalization or chronic disability from COVID hits not just an individual but most often a family whose lives are permanently changed often through financial devastation. Families are not monolithic in their thinking and I believe, and have seen some good evidence, that a lot of bad blood is being created with each day going by. The GOP is trying to harness a force of nature to further their ends and might find itself riding a tiger.

Authoritarians like Modi, Orbin, Bolsonaro, and Putin are not actually concerned with the well-being of their people, or reducing the impact of the pandemic on their countries. Authoritarians benefit when their populations and their institutions are disrupted by chaos, because such disruptions reduce the strength of the business people, bureaucrats, and peasants who might otherwise oppose them. Desperation also inclines people to blame scapegoats, and the most convenient scapegoats are always the minorities who might form a coalition against the ruler. This, in a nutshell, explains why dictatorships are such shitty places to live.

When we consider Trump's moves to expand the deficit, undermine federal agencies like the postal service, EPA, and department of education with saboteur administrators, to block an effective public health response so that the virus can wreck havoc, to spread conspiracy theories, and to cause his followers to distrust election results, we have to consider whether chaos is the master plan rather than a byproduct of incompetence. Maybe by "Making America Weak" Trump was attacking any possible sources of resistance and any remaining faith in the old order.

If you've lost faith in elections, lost faith in the competence of public health experts, been persuaded to believe conspiracy theories, and become alienated from your family and friends, you're just the sort of person who might don the red cap. But it was the leader you adore, who says only he can fix it, who disrupted your life in the first place and put you in such a desperate position that you think your best hope is a dictatorship.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 02:30:33 PM by ChpBstrd »

PeteD01

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A booster shot is generally understood as a periodic boost (every 10 years with tetanus for example) to bring immunity back up to initial levels.

Yup, and Hepatitis B is three shots over six months.

Omricon also puts to rest the notion of achieving herd immunity via natural immunity.

Yes, but might it also put to rest any chance of herd immunity? I'm not sure, I don't believe that we have any good data yet on R0 or Rt.

That has been settled long ago. SARS-CoV-2 is a multispecies zoonotic virus. The concept of herd immunity does not really make a lot of sense when talking about a genetically unstable RNA virus with deep multispecies zoonotic reservoirs. The implications of this are not pretty for anti-vaxxers.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 05:54:41 PM by PeteD01 »

PeteD01

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Omricon also puts to rest the notion of achieving herd immunity via natural immunity.
This idea of naturally acquired herd immunity has been largely discredited, but GOP politicians who have promoted anti-vaxxerism and anti-maskism and anti-mandatism have no other backup to rescue themselves from eventually having to face responsibility for delaying effective disease management among their constituents.
All this has basically blown up in their face with Omricon.
One has to consider that although the situation in undervaxxed areas appears like a succession of events (deaths, hospitalizations, etc), the reality is that the consequences of these events are not going away any time soon, that is they are cumulative. Every death, hosptalization or chronic disability from COVID hits not just an individual but most often a family whose lives are permanently changed often through financial devastation. Families are not monolithic in their thinking and I believe, and have seen some good evidence, that a lot of bad blood is being created with each day going by. The GOP is trying to harness a force of nature to further their ends and might find itself riding a tiger.

Authoritarians like Modi, Orbin, Bolsonaro, and Putin are not actually concerned with the well-being of their people, or reducing the impact of the pandemic on their countries. Authoritarians benefit when their populations and their institutions are disrupted by chaos, because such disruptions reduce the strength of the business people, bureaucrats, and peasants who might otherwise oppose them. Desperation also inclines people to blame scapegoats, and the most convenient scapegoats are always the minorities who might form a coalition against the ruler. This, in a nutshell, explains why dictatorships are such shitty places to live.

When we consider Trump's moves to expand the deficit, undermine federal agencies like the postal service, EPA, and department of education with saboteur administrators, to block an effective public health response so that the virus can wreck havoc, to spread conspiracy theories, and to cause his followers to distrust election results, we have to consider whether chaos is the master plan rather than a byproduct of incompetence. Maybe by "Making America Weak" Trump was attacking any possible sources of resistance and any remaining faith in the old order.

If you've lost faith in elections, lost faith in the competence of public health experts, been persuaded to believe conspiracy theories, and become alienated from your family and friends, you're just the sort of person who might don the red cap. But it was the leader you adore, who says only he can fix it, who disrupted your life in the first place and put you in such a desperate position that you think your best hope is a dictatorship.

I am actually not seeing that the GOP/MAGAverse is supported by the downtrodden and desperate so much as by terrified members of the middle class fearing loss of status. Being actually knocked off their precarious middle class perch by following a suicide cult might just be the sobering experience they needed.
I am also not making a prediction here but merely point out some ways the GOP anti-vaxxism may impact the GOP electorate (thread topic). That many of them are in for a rough ride is unquestionable, what they are going to do about it is another thing.

SunnyDays

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@ChpBstrd, interesting theory about Trump’s intentions, but I think you give him too much credit.  After reading Fire and Fury and also Too Much and Never Enough (both highly recommended), I’ve come to the conclusion that he is incapable of that much planning and is exactly as dumb as he seems.  Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to have interpreted his reactive, chaotic behaviour as a kind of brilliance.  Probably because they are no more capable of critical thinking than him.  To the detriment of all.

RetiredAt63

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@ChpBstrd, interesting theory about Trump’s intentions, but I think you give him too much credit.  After reading Fire and Fury and also Too Much and Never Enough (both highly recommended), I’ve come to the conclusion that he is incapable of that much planning and is exactly as dumb as he seems.  Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to have interpreted his reactive, chaotic behaviour as a kind of brilliance.  Probably because they are no more capable of critical thinking than him.  To the detriment of all.

Could it be that the GOP movers and shakers know and understand this theory?  And used this chance to implement things?

GodlessCommie

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Planning may not be Trump's forte, but he had people around who were good at it. Bannon, Parscale, and Miller come to mind, I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Parscale's use of Trump rallies to activate WWC non-voters is pure brilliance, as much as I hate to admit it.  And Bannon was always open about his quest to weaken American institutions.

Counterintuitively, being dumb is Trump's advantage. He's not afraid to do things a sane person would be afraid of - like attack all the press at once. Or attempt to steal the election, completely in the open, and yelling "they are stealing the election!". And it works, the polite society isn't trained to deal with this level of shamelessness. He also instinctively understands other people of similar mindset, and there are so many of them. Remember "I love the uneducateds"? We heard contempt, but they heard "I love you for what others despise you for".

jrhampt

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Every death, hospitalization or chronic disability from COVID hits not just an individual but most often a family whose lives are permanently changed often through financial devastation. Families are not monolithic in their thinking and I believe, and have seen some good evidence, that a lot of bad blood is being created with each day going by. The GOP is trying to harness a force of nature to further their ends and might find itself riding a tiger.

^^^^^^. Yes.  We are seeing the continuing consequences of this in my own family.  And my parents still will not get vaccinated.  They believe their antibodies are good forever. 

Sibley

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Every death, hospitalization or chronic disability from COVID hits not just an individual but most often a family whose lives are permanently changed often through financial devastation. Families are not monolithic in their thinking and I believe, and have seen some good evidence, that a lot of bad blood is being created with each day going by. The GOP is trying to harness a force of nature to further their ends and might find itself riding a tiger.

^^^^^^. Yes.  We are seeing the continuing consequences of this in my own family.  And my parents still will not get vaccinated.  They believe their antibodies are good forever.

There's some of this happening in a family I know indirectly.  Grandma was old and in poor health. She was cared for by daughter who is an anti-vaxxer. Grandma just died of covid this week. I don't know where she contracted it (there were paid caregivers as well, etc), but I have heard that the wider family has split and there's been a lot of nasty words said for a while BECAUSE grandma got covid.

Omy

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"Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate


PeteD01

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Interesting subthread on Reddit a doctor started with a post explaining why he is leaving medicine.

One response:

smacksaw
·
9 hr. ago
👉🧙‍♂️Go now and die in what way seems best to you🧝‍♀️👍
They have no chance. Their entire social circle are idiots and they are traumatised.
To deal with their trauma and to fit in, they will become radicalised.


https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/ran0xw/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/

DavidAnnArbor

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Interesting subthread on Reddit a doctor started with a post explaining why he is leaving medicine.

One response:

smacksaw
·
9 hr. ago
👉🧙‍♂️Go now and die in what way seems best to you🧝‍♀️👍
They have no chance. Their entire social circle are idiots and they are traumatised.
To deal with their trauma and to fit in, they will become radicalised.


https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/ran0xw/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/

Wow what a stunning story.

GodlessCommie

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They have no chance. Their entire social circle are idiots and they are traumatised.
To deal with their trauma and to fit in, they will become radicalised.

That's the reason for much of my dread as to the future of the country. We hoped that Covid was a reality too grim, too in your face to ignore. That people will see the light. Instead, it drives people deeper and deeper into the crazy. They'll kill and die before accepting that they were wrong.  Or, rather, they *are* killing and dying.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 10:02:48 AM by GodlessCommie »

former player

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They have no chance. Their entire social circle are idiots and they are traumatised.
To deal with their trauma and to fit in, they will become radicalised.

That's the reason for much of my dread as to the future of the country. We hoped that Covid was a reality too grim, too in your face to ignore. That people will see the light. Instead, it drives people deeper and deeper into the crazy. They'll kill and die before accepting that they were wrong.
And they will do exactly the same if the Republican party don't win the 2022 and 2024 elections - it will have to have been a fix so violence is the only answer.

GodlessCommie

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That's the problem with the apparent premise of the topic: that Covid deaths are weakening the GOP. Instead, to borrow MMM's line, Covid seems to poison the GOP just enough. The hardening of the base, the energy that the anger brings, it more than offsets the losses in the ranks.

And the other side, the Dems, are sapped of all the energy by the dread and the gloom.

wenchsenior

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They have no chance. Their entire social circle are idiots and they are traumatised.
To deal with their trauma and to fit in, they will become radicalised.

That's the reason for much of my dread as to the future of the country. We hoped that Covid was a reality too grim, too in your face to ignore. That people will see the light. Instead, it drives people deeper and deeper into the crazy. They'll kill and die before accepting that they were wrong.
And they will do exactly the same if the Republican party don't win the 2022 and 2024 elections - it will have to have been a fix so violence is the only answer.

It's also why increasingly terrible effects of climate change will create more resistance to action.


PeteD01

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“It is very clear our vaccine for the Omicron variant should be a three-dose vaccine,” Ugur Sahin, co-founder and chief executive of BioNTech, told a press briefing.

https://www.politico.eu/article/first-global-studies-suggest-omicron-escapes-vaccine-immunity-boosters-show-promise/

GuitarStv

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If Omicron is much less dangerous (as initial reports suggest) . . . do we even need a vaccine for it?

dandarc

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If Omicron is much less dangerous (as initial reports suggest) . . . do we even need a vaccine for it?
Jury remains out on if / why it might be less severe. Plus it is spreading extremely rapidly, which means even if percentage of severe cases goes down, we could still overwhelm our hospitals. Will be a few months until an omicron-specific vaccine is available (has not been determined if we even need a variant-specific vaccine for this), but the existing vaccines plus booster appear to be helpful.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/omicron-were-getting-some-answers

"The acceleration of patients in the ICU and ventilators is faster than the previous Delta wave." in South Africa. Still very early. So I'd say get your vaccine if you haven't and get boosted when it is time. More antibodies means better protection.