Author Topic: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?  (Read 11976 times)

PDXTabs

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #100 on: October 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM »
I guess we could even be sort of saying the same thing.  Like, I'm saying their risk analysis was so poor as to basically be the same thing as choosing to facilitate his death. 

Quite possibly.

Anyway, somewhat FIRE-related, I was thinking about the "evaluation of risk" angle after reading the new post on Our Next Life https://ournextlife.com/2021/10/27/we-think-about-risk-all-wrong-how-riding-a-bike-almost-ruined-everything/

People are horrible at evaluating risk. Not to get too off topic in this off topic discussion but you see this in the pandemic on both sides of the risk spectrum, IMHO.

SunnyDays

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2021, 05:55:55 PM »
Quote
I imagine that they will have a lot of guilt about his death.

I would to if I murdered my son and dumped his body in a swamp.

I really hadn't thought of that angle!  But who knows?  Although it would mean they were even more foolish than they appeared.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2021, 11:33:34 AM »
I guess we could even be sort of saying the same thing.  Like, I'm saying their risk analysis was so poor as to basically be the same thing as choosing to facilitate his death.  Really, really poor decision-making and evaluation of the risk of different outcomes.  But I guess we all fool ourselves at times, especially if we are emotionally invested.  And that's not even to talk about how deplorable it is that they'd rather facilitate his escape than accountability.  Anyway, somewhat FIRE-related, I was thinking about the "evaluation of risk" angle after reading the new post on Our Next Life https://ournextlife.com/2021/10/27/we-think-about-risk-all-wrong-how-riding-a-bike-almost-ruined-everything/

Thanks for posting this @sui generis, I'm even signed up for Our Next Life updates but didn't get this. Yeah the non-financial risks can be a huge blind spot. I never expected to be a victim of crime and have to go on disability, etc, despite the statistics showing how likely it is for women. So true, there's so much you can't control, just do what you can!

Agree that the accountability piece is especially troubling in all of this.

SunnyDays

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2021, 04:11:13 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.

hooplady

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2021, 07:23:22 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

sui generis

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2022, 04:47:03 PM »
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FBI-Laundrie-admitted-killing-Gabby-Petito-in-16794939.php

Surprise, the boyfriend did it.

Actually surprised that it took so long for them to come out with this news. It's been months since they found his body and I'm assuming they found this journal entry within a day or two? I guess they may have waited to release a bunch of information together, some of which took longer to uncover (the fake texts, confirming how he died) but still ....Almost 3 months seems like a lot of time, usually also associated with a lot of money!

Finally, I see no mention of whether the parents were investigated for crimes they may have committed. Since it seems like it would have been mentioned if the police had cleared the parents of any wrongdoing, it sounds more like it just wasn't pursued and they are getting a pass. Bummer if so

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2022, 06:16:39 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

Villanelle

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2022, 07:08:17 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.


Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2022, 08:32:58 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 08:35:17 PM by Kris »

Dicey

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #109 on: January 22, 2022, 10:17:19 PM »
And now we have this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brian-laundrie-texted-between-gabby-231547552.html

Totally agree that the parents appear to have been complicit. Hope they don't get off without defending their decisions.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2022, 06:56:54 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

ETA: I see there are some responses, but I am bowing out. I was hoping to have another level of critical thinking, but alas, same ole same ole. So it goes.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 09:22:06 AM by JoePublic3.14 »

Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2022, 06:58:19 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

Except that is not how an abuse cycle starts.

OtherJen

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2022, 07:14:30 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

Except that is not how an abuse cycle starts.

Thank you. It doesn’t just start with being smacked “out of the blue.” Often, the abuser has targeted someone vulnerable—young, naive, conditioned from a very young age to people-please—from the very beginning of the relationship. From there, it’s akin to being trapped in so slowly that one doesn’t know it’s happening until it’s too late. There’s often quite a lot of psychological abuse that happens before physical abuse, and by that time, the victim is gaslit, possibly brainwashed, and isolated from people who can help. And at that point, getting out is extremely risky. The victim needs to be able to trust that whomever they approach for help is 100% on their side (and remember, they’ve been manipulated to believe that only the abuser is trustworthy). Otherwise, any attempts at escape could get back to the abuser, who may react in rage to gain control. This is why the period just before escape is the most dangerous (life-threatening) for a victim. It may be why Gabby was murdered by her boyfriend.

Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2022, 07:21:14 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

Except that is not how an abuse cycle starts.

Thank you. It doesn’t just start with being smacked “out of the blue.” Often, the abuser has targeted someone vulnerable—young, naive, conditioned from a very young age to people-please—from the very beginning of the relationship. From there, it’s akin to being trapped in so slowly that one doesn’t know it’s happening until it’s too late. There’s often quite a lot of psychological abuse that happens before physical abuse, and by that time, the victim is gaslit, possibly brainwashed, and isolated from people who can help. And at that point, getting out is extremely risky. The victim needs to be able to trust that whomever they approach for help is 100% on their side (and remember, they’ve been manipulated to believe that only the abuser is trustworthy). Otherwise, any attempts at escape could get back to the abuser, who may react in rage to gain control. This is why the period just before escape is the most dangerous (life-threatening) for a victim. It may be why Gabby was murdered by her boyfriend.

And often, it is not someone that society would immediately clock as “vulnerable” or “naive,” though the narrative we most often hear does not talk about those cases. Which is why so many people who have never been in such a relationship think that they themselves are immune, or that it is simply a matter of training oneself to have an ingrained response, as though it is a sort of martial arts training.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 07:46:16 AM by Kris »

Villanelle

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2022, 11:47:02 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

ETA: I see there are some responses, but I am bowing out. I was hoping to have another level of critical thinking, but alas, same ole same ole. So it goes.

On this, it is you who are lacking in critical thinking.  I was respectful in my original comment and didn't cast any stones.  The cycle of abuse--and it very much is a cycle, not just your partner "smacking you out of the blue".  It's pretty similar to many child abuse cases.  The pastor or baseball coach doesn't just pull a kid into an office and demand sex acts.  These predators are patient, cultivating relationships with both intended victim and those around them, planting seeds of doubt, working incrementally up to even the first truly inappropriate act (to the point that it is often impossible to say which was the first inappropriate act.  Was it asking the kid about what girls or boys at school they think are cute?  Because that's a pretty common thing, but it can also be part of sloooooowly opening the door to sexual contact). 

You are imagining yourself, as you are today, and how you would--and more importantly, could--react.  But that's not how it happens.  Maybe you aren't someone who could ever be broken down enough to really be a victim, but most people think that and are wrong.  And even if you are, that isn't because you refuse to be a victim or have imagined what you think it would be like and made some plan.  But more than likely, if someone truly set their sights on you and decided that come hell or high water, they'd get to you, they could.  Slowly severing relationships, interfering with your job (unless you are FIRE, I suppose) and causing you to lose it without you ever being aware--that's the sort of thing that happens in the beginning and you don't even know they are doing anything it all.   

"Refuse to be a victim" is insulting because it implies that is easy, or even that it is an option, and in many cases, it isn't.  Maybe the reason you get the "same ole" is because you are saying the same things and they continue to be wrong, hurtful, and harmful.   Can you even comprehend that this is a possibility?  If I kept saying the sky was orange, I'd get the same ol' response too.  And it wouldn't be because the responders refused to think critically.


Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2022, 11:54:08 AM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

ETA: I see there are some responses, but I am bowing out. I was hoping to have another level of critical thinking, but alas, same ole same ole. So it goes.

On this, it is you who are lacking in critical thinking.  I was respectful in my original comment and didn't cast any stones.  The cycle of abuse--and it very much is a cycle, not just your partner "smacking you out of the blue".  It's pretty similar to many child abuse cases.  The pastor or baseball coach doesn't just pull a kid into an office and demand sex acts.  These predators are patient, cultivating relationships with both intended victim and those around them, planting seeds of doubt, working incrementally up to even the first truly inappropriate act (to the point that it is often impossible to say which was the first inappropriate act.  Was it asking the kid about what girls or boys at school they think are cute?  Because that's a pretty common thing, but it can also be part of sloooooowly opening the door to sexual contact). 

You are imagining yourself, as you are today, and how you would--and more importantly, could--react.  But that's not how it happens.  Maybe you aren't someone who could ever be broken down enough to really be a victim, but most people think that and are wrong.  And even if you are, that isn't because you refuse to be a victim or have imagined what you think it would be like and made some plan.  But more than likely, if someone truly set their sights on you and decided that come hell or high water, they'd get to you, they could.  Slowly severing relationships, interfering with your job (unless you are FIRE, I suppose) and causing you to lose it without you ever being aware--that's the sort of thing that happens in the beginning and you don't even know they are doing anything it all.   

"Refuse to be a victim" is insulting because it implies that is easy, or even that it is an option, and in many cases, it isn't.  Maybe the reason you get the "same ole" is because you are saying the same things and they continue to be wrong, hurtful, and harmful.   Can you even comprehend that this is a possibility?  If I kept saying the sky was orange, I'd get the same ol' response too.  And it wouldn't be because the responders refused to think critically.

Well said, Villanelle.

Villanelle

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2022, 12:04:51 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

ETA: I see there are some responses, but I am bowing out. I was hoping to have another level of critical thinking, but alas, same ole same ole. So it goes.

On this, it is you who are lacking in critical thinking.  I was respectful in my original comment and didn't cast any stones.  The cycle of abuse--and it very much is a cycle, not just your partner "smacking you out of the blue".  It's pretty similar to many child abuse cases.  The pastor or baseball coach doesn't just pull a kid into an office and demand sex acts.  These predators are patient, cultivating relationships with both intended victim and those around them, planting seeds of doubt, working incrementally up to even the first truly inappropriate act (to the point that it is often impossible to say which was the first inappropriate act.  Was it asking the kid about what girls or boys at school they think are cute?  Because that's a pretty common thing, but it can also be part of sloooooowly opening the door to sexual contact). 

You are imagining yourself, as you are today, and how you would--and more importantly, could--react.  But that's not how it happens.  Maybe you aren't someone who could ever be broken down enough to really be a victim, but most people think that and are wrong.  And even if you are, that isn't because you refuse to be a victim or have imagined what you think it would be like and made some plan.  But more than likely, if someone truly set their sights on you and decided that come hell or high water, they'd get to you, they could.  Slowly severing relationships, interfering with your job (unless you are FIRE, I suppose) and causing you to lose it without you ever being aware--that's the sort of thing that happens in the beginning and you don't even know they are doing anything it all.   

"Refuse to be a victim" is insulting because it implies that is easy, or even that it is an option, and in many cases, it isn't.  Maybe the reason you get the "same ole" is because you are saying the same things and they continue to be wrong, hurtful, and harmful.   Can you even comprehend that this is a possibility?  If I kept saying the sky was orange, I'd get the same ol' response too.  And it wouldn't be because the responders refused to think critically.

Well said, Villanelle.

I think it is because I used to think somewhat of the same way.  "It's such a sad story, and nothing justifies abuse. But, why didn't she leave?"   That sort of thing.  I just didn't understand it. 

Then I did.  Because I educated myself a lot more about it, and thought critically about it, and stopped imagining I knew what it was like and what I it would do. 


Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2022, 12:07:53 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

I know this is a few months old, but since this post popped back up, I wanted to comment.

You need to imagine this situation. This one, and five thousand other possible negative situations. Imagine it, mentally work on taking the appropriate action 'please help, this guy is abusive, shoot him for me please….' Right now. Then do it again tomorrow. And every day. Of course you don’t need to become a paranoid freak, but you need to work on the mental memory, just like muscle memory.

Refuse to be a victim. Start right now. All of us can benefit by some meditation that includes some game planning against bad things. House catches fire. I hear someone breaking in my back door.. coworker shows up with a gun. Girlfriend smacks me. And so on.

But yeah, it is incredibly sad for a woman that young to not be able to provide enough of a sign for law enforcement to take the right action. Actually, her being young has nothing to do with the sadness, so it’s just plain sad.

I agree with some of your post, but the bolded is kinda...no.  When a predator systematically removes a woman (or any person) from her support system, while simultaneously planting seeds of self-doubt and cultivating inferiority, especially someone who may already have low self-esteem, saying, "refuse to be a victim" is pretty insulting.  When you have no access to money, no place to go, and you feel like shit about yourself, possibly even believing that it is you and your faults that drove that person to be abusive, there's nothing simplistic about it. 

If one day, out of the blue, your partner "smacks you", it's pretty easy to "not be a victim".  You call a friend and crash on their couch, or rent a hotel room while you get things sorted out. You kennel your dog so your partner can't hurt or kill it while you find a home quickly with your decent credit and solid job and income.  Your children can stay with their grandparents, with whom you have a solid relationship, as you reestablish yourself, and you don't have to worry about your abusive Ex hurting them kids, keeping your from them, or even kidnapping them because you have resources to hire a lawyer and a lifestyle that easily supports you getting custody. But that's rarely how it happens.  Most abusers are quite good at working their way up to it, and first removing support and escape options before the get to the "smacking" phase.  So it is almost never as easy or simple as "refusing to be a victim" for the people who are actually in abusive relationships.

Yeah. Joe, with respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

With the same respect, yes I do.

Though I will add, my point has nothing to do with someone who is unfortunate to already be a victim. Those folks need whatever help we can figure out to provide.

My point is that there is value in thinking through possible future scenarios and possible actions. Like studying for the test if life.

ETA: I see there are some responses, but I am bowing out. I was hoping to have another level of critical thinking, but alas, same ole same ole. So it goes.

On this, it is you who are lacking in critical thinking.  I was respectful in my original comment and didn't cast any stones.  The cycle of abuse--and it very much is a cycle, not just your partner "smacking you out of the blue".  It's pretty similar to many child abuse cases.  The pastor or baseball coach doesn't just pull a kid into an office and demand sex acts.  These predators are patient, cultivating relationships with both intended victim and those around them, planting seeds of doubt, working incrementally up to even the first truly inappropriate act (to the point that it is often impossible to say which was the first inappropriate act.  Was it asking the kid about what girls or boys at school they think are cute?  Because that's a pretty common thing, but it can also be part of sloooooowly opening the door to sexual contact). 

You are imagining yourself, as you are today, and how you would--and more importantly, could--react.  But that's not how it happens.  Maybe you aren't someone who could ever be broken down enough to really be a victim, but most people think that and are wrong.  And even if you are, that isn't because you refuse to be a victim or have imagined what you think it would be like and made some plan.  But more than likely, if someone truly set their sights on you and decided that come hell or high water, they'd get to you, they could.  Slowly severing relationships, interfering with your job (unless you are FIRE, I suppose) and causing you to lose it without you ever being aware--that's the sort of thing that happens in the beginning and you don't even know they are doing anything it all.   

"Refuse to be a victim" is insulting because it implies that is easy, or even that it is an option, and in many cases, it isn't.  Maybe the reason you get the "same ole" is because you are saying the same things and they continue to be wrong, hurtful, and harmful.   Can you even comprehend that this is a possibility?  If I kept saying the sky was orange, I'd get the same ol' response too.  And it wouldn't be because the responders refused to think critically.

Well said, Villanelle.

I think it is because I used to think somewhat of the same way.  "It's such a sad story, and nothing justifies abuse. But, why didn't she leave?"   That sort of thing.  I just didn't understand it. 

Then I did.  Because I educated myself a lot more about it, and thought critically about it, and stopped imagining I knew what it was like and what I it would do.

Yep. Me, too.

Then, it happened to me.

 And in the process of learning about it, and talking to/reading from others who had gone through it, and watching friends and family trapped in the cycle of abuse, and talking to/reading from researchers and therapists who knew about it, I learned that what I had assumed was wrong.

Omy

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2022, 03:12:31 PM »
"And often, it is not someone that society would immediately clock as “vulnerable” or “naive,” though the narrative we most often hear does not talk about those cases. Which is why so many people who have never been in such a relationship think that they themselves are immune, or that it is simply a matter of training oneself to have an ingrained response, as though it is a sort of martial arts training."

This was me. I had never been charmed by a sociopath...until I turned 40. I thought I could never be a victim because I don't put up with anybody's crap.

The guy looked great on paper. We hung in the same circles. The relationship was exciting and started out magical. And then slowly took a turn and started becoming emotionally abusive.

His ex was crazy, so I assumed some of his issues were from dealing with a crazy ex. The beginning of our relationship was so great (and there were glimpses of great that kept me hooked in). But after just a few months of being manipulated and gaslit, I was becoming "crazy".

I was fortunate to have a friend point out that I was changing....and she gave me reading material about sociopaths and the cycle of abuse. I was able to process the info and leave the relationship without it escalating to physical abuse.

Before this experience, I could never understand why a victim doesn't just leave. Afterwards it all made sense.

Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2022, 05:17:11 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

You need to imagine this situation.

Refuse to be a victim

Holy shitballs, I had no idea my simple comment would garner such a response (and spark so much discussion about the response). FWIW, I don't think (?) I've ever been a victim. I don't need to imagine the situation because I've actually been there. My reaction was to immediately defend myself, in at least one instance it was the other party who ended up with the ER visit.

Perhaps it is this real-life experience that hampers me from understanding why someone else wouldn't do the same thing. I get that my comment may have lacked empathy, I'm trying to absorb the subsequent responses and understand how I can see other perspectives.

Your comment was not the one that garnered such a strong response. JoePublic3.14’s was.

Villanelle

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2022, 05:17:48 PM »
For anyone interested, tonight’s 20/20 is about the whole case and what the “next steps” will be.  Might be informative.
Only a few minutes into this and I'm very sad. Gabby is apologizing and making excuses for the injuries that the officers clearly see. I can't imagine being in that situation.

You need to imagine this situation.

Refuse to be a victim

Holy shitballs, I had no idea my simple comment would garner such a response (and spark so much discussion about the response). FWIW, I don't think (?) I've ever been a victim. I don't need to imagine the situation because I've actually been there. My reaction was to immediately defend myself, in at least one instance it was the other party who ended up with the ER visit.

Perhaps it is this real-life experience that hampers me from understanding why someone else wouldn't do the same thing. I get that my comment may have lacked empathy, I'm trying to absorb the subsequent responses and understand how I can see other perspectives.

FWIW, I didn't think your comment was lacking empathy.  It *is* difficult to imagine. It is hard to understand when one applies the logic of their own life and lived experiences, if they haven't been through anything similar and aren't familiar with the often slow and systematic process of grooming an abuse victim.  It wasn't your comment that led to the... vigorous response.  Or at least it wasn't for me. 


Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2022, 08:02:28 PM »
I have nothing to add but wanted to say thanks for the discussion and information presented.

Kris

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Re: Why Are Authorities Spending So Much Money Looking For Brian Laundrie?
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2022, 05:13:57 PM »
I have nothing to add but wanted to say thanks for the discussion and information presented.

Thank you for being open to critical thinking, Wolfpack.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 05:24:30 PM by Kris »