Holding the door for Women

[robartsd]

Refusing to walk through the door isn’t a masculinity thing. It’s how a gentleman should behave.

Refusing a kind gesture is rude, not gentlemanly.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Curious question - I've heard anecdotes of women who got offended when men held the door for them in normal situations or even extreme ones (woman coming directly behind them carrying many boxes), but has anyone ever experienced this in a real situation, by which I mean I'm right ahead of you and simply hold the door letting you go first? Would any women on here be bothered by this, excluding elevator or other examples where safety was in question?

[Rural]

 Doesn't bother me regardless of the gender of the person holding the door.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Curious question - I've heard anecdotes of women who got offended when men held the door for them in normal situations or even extreme ones (woman coming directly behind them carrying many boxes), but has anyone ever experienced this in a real situation, by which I mean I'm right ahead of you and simply hold the door letting you go first? Would any women on here be bothered by this, excluding elevator or other examples where safety was in question?

I've heard of it too.

I've  never seen it happen.

[RetiredAt63]

If I'm carrying an armload I will be appreciative of anyone holding the door for me.  I hold the door for people of all varieties, and go through doors held by people of all varieties.  If I get there first, I hold the door, if the other person gets there first and holds the door, I go through it and say Thanks.  And if there is another door, I end up holding it.

Pulling doors open is good arm exercise, I am quite happy to open my own doors when appropriate.

[pudding]

I don't know what the answer is. 

But it is something I've thought about a lot.

In the U.K. if I held a door open for a women she would likely look at me like I'm some antiquated nob head.

Yet here in Canada I've had other guys (I'm male) chastise me for 'not holding the door open for the lady'  like it's any of their business.

Also I've had women insist on 'chivalry' whatever the F that is, and that I should for some reason open car doors for them, then when 'me lady' is comfortably seated, I'm supposed to tip my hat and close the door for her. All the while of course respecting that she is an independent women.

Something's a bit off in Canada, it's like how people use both imperial inches and metric here and jumble it all up.... it's like this feminist, chivalrous approach???? baffling to me.

In that way I like how it is in the U.K. more. Two female prime ministers so far, 1st one over 30 years ago, served 3 terms over 10 years, female monarch.... hardly ever hear a whisper from them about being a women.  They just seem to get on with it.

[RetiredAt63]

Pudding, I'm Canadian born and bred, and kinda old, and I never expect a man to do that car door stuff for me.  Hold a building door for me, sure, if he got there first, but I will hold the door for him if I was there first. This applies to both strangers and acquaintances.

I do wish that Kim Campbell had not been our only woman PM.  But you can take heart at the list of GGs (think Michaëlle Jean and how far we have left the old "someone British with a title gets appointed to be GG" model behind us.

Canada does seem a bit muddled at times, it is because we are caught between the US to the south and the rest of the world - trying to be world citizens but always influenced by our big neighbour/biggest trading partner.

[fuzzy math]

One of my coworkers is a door holder and we might walk through 8 doors headed to a different department, and all the thank yous interrupt our conversation.

Don't interrupt a conversation to say thank you; just walk through the door. There's a very good chance that your coworker is not begging for the thank you that you think he is. If you get to the next door first, just return the favor instead. Let the door holding be about mutual respect for the group rather than a gender role.

I've tried holding the door for him and he will slide behind me and take over the door holding, forcing me to go through. It also visibly causes him embarrassment if I do it, as though I am insinuating he is a woman and I'm the strong man. He will guffaw and mutter something about how he's supposed to hold the door, not me.  I'm taller than him so I have to be wary of emasculating him, 30 years younger so I have to show deference to his work experience and he's Hispanic so I don't think I'm going to break 60 years of cultural tradition ingrained in him just by being contrary.

But thank you for assuming you know how to solve my situation or thinking I might not have thought about it.

[never give up]

Perhaps I’m a bit naive but I don’t see how opening a door is a power thing. Out of politeness I always open a door if I get to it first and either go through it and hold it open or allow the other person to go first. This really depends on if it was a push or a pull. I don’t care what demographic the person is it’s just polite.

Similarly I will happily go through a door that is being held open for me, again regardless of the demographic of the person holding it open for me. Why snub that person’s politeness?

The area where I really struggle is the very rare occasion I have to use a revolving door. I can’t work them. Some sort of ninja ability is needed to navigate them successfully I’m sure, so I always let anyone else go first because I don’t want them to see me try. When no one is about then I’ll have a go. I need three or four attempts to get in ok, although my success rate of leaving on the correct side has significantly improved in recent times.

[McStache]

Perhaps I’m a bit naive but I don’t see how opening a door is a power thing. Out of politeness I always open a door if I get to it first and either go through it and hold it open or allow the other person to go first. This really depends on if it was a push or a pull. I don’t care what demographic the person is it’s just polite.

It generally isn't a power thing, until someone makes it one.  In the same way where a handshake isn't generally a power thing, until someone tries to shake/squeeze your hand off therefore making it one.

[John Galt incarnate!]

The area where I really struggle is the very rare occasion I have to use a revolving door. I can’t work them. Some sort of ninja ability is needed to navigate them successfully I’m sure, so I always let anyone else go first because I don’t want them to see me try. When no one is about then I’ll have a go. I need three or four attempts to get in ok, although my success rate of leaving on the correct side has significantly improved in recent times.

Revolving doors have considerable momentum.

I saw an elderly  nun get slammed from behind by a revolving door.

It struck her with so much force that it ejected  her through the door opening to the sidewalk where  she fell down face first.

[Paul der Krake]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

[John Galt incarnate!]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Sometimes while  shopping I'll be ~3 feet from another shopper who is chatting on their cell phone while positioned in the middle of the aisle w/ a shopping cart.

Oblivious to my presence they continue to block the aisle as they chat, chat, chat ...





 

[Kris]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Oh, yes. This makes me rage.

[accolay]

I extend the courtesy to anybody who is behind me. If they don't like it, that means there's something wrong with them, not me.

[GuitarStv]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Sometimes while  shopping I'll be ~3 feet from another shopper who is chatting on their cell phone while positioned in the middle of the aisle w/ a shopping cart.

Oblivious to my presence they continue to block the aisle as they chat, chat, chat ...

Time to raise the cart to RAMMING SPEED!

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Oh, yes. This makes me rage.

See for whatever reason when that happens, it's always strikes me with amazement. Like how do these people pull the door just the right amount to get through and have it close almost hitting their back. It's like some sort of black magic or at least a cultivated skill. I always open it super far by default, but I guess I'm usually in a hurry.

[GuitarStv]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Oh, yes. This makes me rage.

See for whatever reason when that happens, it's always strikes me with amazement. Like how do these people pull the door just the right amount to get through and have it close almost hitting their back. It's like some sort of black magic or at least a cultivated skill. I always open it super far by default, but I guess I'm usually in a hurry.

I can get through a door and have it immediately close behind me faster than I can hold a door open.  Lots of practice as a dickish kid . . . coupled with always picturing that I'm Indiana Jones just getting through that closing rock door in the nick of time.

[John Galt incarnate!]

I have the opposite pet peeve: people who don't hold doors at all. I'm walking 6 feet behind them, it's the morning rush so it's clear there's likely someone behind them, but they'll just open the door and let it close. It takes a half second to slightly turn your head, realize there's someone behind, and push the door a little further than strictly necessary so I can grab it and do the same for the person behind me. Apparently that's too much to ask from the headphone-wearing variety of office workers.

Sometimes while  shopping I'll be ~3 feet from another shopper who is chatting on their cell phone while positioned in the middle of the aisle w/ a shopping cart.

Oblivious to my presence they continue to block the aisle as they chat, chat, chat ...

Time to raise the cart to RAMMING SPEED!

Ha!

[Ann]

I’m surprised to  learn that anyone on the MMM boards expects someone else to hold the door for them if they are unencumbered (not caring anything, not pushing a stroller or using a walker).

[jeninco]

I’m surprised to  learn that anyone on the MMM boards expects someone else to hold the door for them if they are unencumbered (not caring anything, not pushing a stroller or using a walker).

I'm not sure "expects" is the right word, but we're surprisingly much about civility and community-building, and that's a thing you to that promotes friendliness between people.  As others have mentioned, I routinely hold the door for people who aren't too far behind me, and I appreciate it (but don't expect it) when other people do the same for me.

[K-ice]

For push doors it's pretty easy. I go thru first and then hold. Most people have no problem with that.

It's the pull doors that cause more award situations.

But it's probably just a bad door design:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY96hTb8WgI

^^^Check this out. I love it!

[GuitarStv]

In all honesty, it's stupid that we're having this conversation.

Star Trek solved this problem in the '60s.  Tech guys took Star Trek's communicators and really ran with them in the form of cellphones.  You can't tell me we couldn't do the doors as well.  Where the eff are our red automatic sliding pocket doors?

[simonsez]

In all honesty, it's stupid that we're having this conversation.

Star Trek solved this problem in the '60s.  Tech guys took Star Trek's communicators and really ran with them in the form of cellphones.  You can't tell me we couldn't do the doors as well.  Where the eff are our red automatic sliding pocket doors?

Relevant...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMX9ZAD_h3g

They had to work some bugs out!

[Jouer]

I haven't seen too many people, of any gender, refuse to enter a held open door in the traditional grab-the-door-and-step-back manner. At least recently.

I do remember 2 guys back in college (late 90s) almost fighting over it. One would hold the door and motion and the other would wait. It was like a weird staring game.

We call that the Canadian stand-off

after you
no, after you
I'm sorry but I insist, after you

[Sibley]

Curious question - I've heard anecdotes of women who got offended when men held the door for them in normal situations or even extreme ones (woman coming directly behind them carrying many boxes), but has anyone ever experienced this in a real situation, by which I mean I'm right ahead of you and simply hold the door letting you go first? Would any women on here be bothered by this, excluding elevator or other examples where safety was in question?

I've had men who deliberately sped up to get ahead of me to open the door. That pissed me off.

I've had men who completely stopped in order to let me catch up so they could hold the door. That pissed me off.

If you happen to be walking to the door and get there first, sure hold the door. If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

[GuitarStv]

Some of us deliberately stop in order that the person behind them can catch up for men as well as women.

[Sibley]

Some of us deliberately stop in order that the person behind them can catch up for men as well as women.

Why? If I'm right there sure, you got to the door first. And I'll be perfectly honest - my experience has been that it's ALWAYS a man, and they don't hold the door for other men who might be right behind me. Which means it's gendered.

More general comment, not directed towards you specifically:
Everyone who goes on about chivalry, I hope they realize that it's an ideal behavior code based on an idealized society which NEVER EXISTED that came out of a society where women were considered legal property and had no rights. If you're doing something because chivalry, the subtext there is of ownership and control. Not a great optic, regardless of the intention.

[Omy]

My teenage nephew is being raised to be a gentleman. He is polite, opens the door for everybody, will offer to carry your bags if you look burdened. He is a kind, sweet soul who believes men and women are equal. It saddens me to think that he will be met with hostility by some people when he holds a door open.

[Sibley]

My teenage nephew is being raised to be a gentleman. He is polite, opens the door for everybody, will offer to carry your bags if you look burdened. He is a kind, sweet soul who believes men and women are equal. It saddens me to think that he will be met with hostility by some people when he holds a door open.

Based on your description, he's fine. If he's deviating from that, we'd need specifics.

[Samuel]

I’m surprised to  learn that anyone on the MMM boards expects someone else to hold the door for them if they are unencumbered (not caring anything, not pushing a stroller or using a walker).

I'm not sure "expects" is the right word, but we're surprisingly much about civility and community-building, and that's a thing you to that promotes friendliness between people.  As others have mentioned, I routinely hold the door for people who aren't too far behind me, and I appreciate it (but don't expect it) when other people do the same for me.

I hold doors open for everyone, but only for the free exercise.

[Paul der Krake]

I’m surprised to  learn that anyone on the MMM boards expects someone else to hold the door for them if they are unencumbered (not caring anything, not pushing a stroller or using a walker).

I'm not sure "expects" is the right word, but we're surprisingly much about civility and community-building, and that's a thing you to that promotes friendliness between people.  As others have mentioned, I routinely hold the door for people who aren't too far behind me, and I appreciate it (but don't expect it) when other people do the same for me.

I hold doors open for everyone, but only for the free exercise.

You selfish prick! You're the worst!

[never give up]

I was once at the top of the Empire State building. I held the door open as people stepped out into the viewing deck. There were so many people piling through with bags, coats etc in their hands I didn’t feel I could let go of the door. I must have been there for at least a couple of minutes which is a long time in the door opening business. I started making a few quips “I was here on holiday but appear to have found employment” etc and with my English accent everyone loved the service I was providing. I’ve never made so many people laugh in such a short period of time. This was a fun memory but this thread is starting to make me question:

1. Am I actually evil?

2. If the timing of the lifts was different maybe I’d still be there holding that door open as there never would have been the opportunity to let go.

3. If you’re going to hold a door open for a prolonged period of time you may as well make sure you’ve got a good view.

[Jouer]

Some of us deliberately stop in order that the person behind them can catch up for men as well as women.

Why? If I'm right there sure, you got to the door first. And I'll be perfectly honest - my experience has been that it's ALWAYS a man, and they don't hold the door for other men who might be right behind me. Which means it's gendered.

More general comment, not directed towards you specifically:
Everyone who goes on about chivalry, I hope they realize that it's an ideal behavior code based on an idealized society which NEVER EXISTED that came out of a society where women were considered legal property and had no rights. If you're doing something because chivalry, the subtext there is of ownership and control. Not a great optic, regardless of the intention.

Because we are fucking polite

[RyanAtTanagra]

If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

On the flip side, if you wouldn't get upset if a female did it, shouldn't you also not get upset if a male were doing it?  At what point do I have to start treating women LESS politely than a man because I'm afraid they'll think I'm being sexist?

As an example, I'm a generally helpful person, partially because so few people are nowadays.  I've stopped, on my bicycle, to help someone fixing their bicycle on the side of the road/trail, or at least ask if they needed any tools/tire patches.  I've done this for males and females.  Should I not do it if it's a woman, because I'm a man, and that can be viewed as 'oh let me stop and assist the poor helpless female'?  But then I'm treating them different because they're female.  It's all so confusing!

[use2betrix]

If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

On the flip side, if you wouldn't get upset if a female did it, shouldn't you also not get upset if a male were doing it?  At what point do I have to start treating women LESS politely than a man because I'm afraid they'll think I'm being sexist?

As an example, I'm a generally helpful person, partially because so few people are nowadays.  I've stopped, on my bicycle, to help someone fixing their bicycle on the side of the road/trail, or at least ask if they needed any tools/tire patches.  I've done this for males and females.  Should I not do it if it's a woman, because I'm a man, and that can be viewed as 'oh let me stop and assist the poor helpless female'?  But then I'm treating them different because they're female.  It's all so confusing!

According to this thread, you shouldn’t stop and help the woman because she will automatically think you are going to sexually harass her.

Personally, I treat every single man, woman, black, white, brown, the exact same. Our society is doing everything in the world to view and treat everyone as equals. I’ll be damned if a single person expects me to treat them any differently because of their gender or color of their skin.

[jeninco]

If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

On the flip side, if you wouldn't get upset if a female did it, shouldn't you also not get upset if a male were doing it?  At what point do I have to start treating women LESS politely than a man because I'm afraid they'll think I'm being sexist?

As an example, I'm a generally helpful person, partially because so few people are nowadays.  I've stopped, on my bicycle, to help someone fixing their bicycle on the side of the road/trail, or at least ask if they needed any tools/tire patches.  I've done this for males and females.  Should I not do it if it's a woman, because I'm a man, and that can be viewed as 'oh let me stop and assist the poor helpless female'?  But then I'm treating them different because they're female.  It's all so confusing!

According to this thread, you shouldn’t stop and help the woman because she will automatically think you are going to sexually harass her.

Personally, I treat every single man, woman, black, white, brown, the exact same. Our society is doing everything in the world to view and treat everyone as equals. I’ll be damned if a single person expects me to treat them any differently because of their gender or color of their skin.

Don't be deliberately obtuse. If she's nervously looking around on the side of a dark road in a dangerous neighborhood, at least say something reassuring before you appear beside her. And if she declines help, go on our way, same as you would with anyone else.

Being aware of our surroundings in a different way is baked into being female in America. If you don't want to know that the reason a woman might not want you holding the elevator door when it's just two of you in a weird place, don't read about it. Other members here seem to be mildly interested in learning about the lived experiences of people who are not them.

Personal story: I was reading the newspaper (in my car: I was in a "standing but not parking" zone) in the Cell Phone lot at an airport Saturday, waiting to pick up my kids. I was aware that there were a bunch of motorcycles congregating behind me, but not really paying attention. After a bit, a grimy-looking guy came up and knocked gently on my door and started his request with "don't be afraid". (They needed me to pull up so the truck&trailer that was coming to take their bikes back to a coast had room to pull in.)  It was a really considerate way to start, made me laugh, and after I pulled forward I got out of my car and chatted with them about what they'd been doing.  A little bit of understanding the potential nuance of the situation went a really long way toward making it fun for everyone.

[Kris]

If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

On the flip side, if you wouldn't get upset if a female did it, shouldn't you also not get upset if a male were doing it?  At what point do I have to start treating women LESS politely than a man because I'm afraid they'll think I'm being sexist?

As an example, I'm a generally helpful person, partially because so few people are nowadays.  I've stopped, on my bicycle, to help someone fixing their bicycle on the side of the road/trail, or at least ask if they needed any tools/tire patches.  I've done this for males and females.  Should I not do it if it's a woman, because I'm a man, and that can be viewed as 'oh let me stop and assist the poor helpless female'?  But then I'm treating them different because they're female.  It's all so confusing!

According to this thread, you shouldn’t stop and help the woman because she will automatically think you are going to sexually harass her.

Personally, I treat every single man, woman, black, white, brown, the exact same. Our society is doing everything in the world to view and treat everyone as equals. I’ll be damned if a single person expects me to treat them any differently because of their gender or color of their skin.

Don't be deliberately obtuse. If she's nervously looking around on the side of a dark road in a dangerous neighborhood, at least say something reassuring before you appear beside her. And if she declines help, go on our way, same as you would with anyone else.

Being aware of our surroundings in a different way is baked into being female in America. If you don't want to know that the reason a woman might not want you holding the elevator door when it's just two of you in a weird place, don't read about it. Other members here seem to be mildly interested in learning about the lived experiences of people who are not them.

Personal story: I was reading the newspaper (in my car: I was in a "standing but not parking" zone) in the Cell Phone lot at an airport Saturday, waiting to pick up my kids. I was aware that there were a bunch of motorcycles congregating behind me, but not really paying attention. After a bit, a grimy-looking guy came up and knocked gently on my door and started his request with "don't be afraid". (They needed me to pull up so the truck&trailer that was coming to take their bikes back to a coast had room to pull in.)  It was a really considerate way to start, made me laugh, and after I pulled forward I got out of my car and chatted with them about what they'd been doing.  A little bit of understanding the potential nuance of the situation went a really long way toward making it fun for everyone.

Yep. @use2betrix , your "I treat everyone the exact same" stance is... well, not a great stance sometimes in the real world. Context matters. Situational awareness matters. Pretending like it doesn't matter won't magically make it not.

If I am alone on a fairly deserted highway somewhere and my car breaks down, and a lone man pulls up behind me and offers to help, no freaking way am I going to let him. If I'm outside changing my tire and he pulls up behind me, I'm running to get in my car and locking the doors.

Sorry if you're the nicest guy in the world. I am not taking that chance. Go away. You are not "helping" me unless you immediately realize that the best thing you can do, if anything is ask me if I need you to call for assistance or if I've already done that, and then leave.

[robartsd]

Yep. @use2betrix , your "I treat everyone the exact same" stance is... well, not a great stance sometimes in the real world. Context matters. Situational awareness matters. Pretending like it doesn't matter won't magically make it not.

If I am alone on a fairly deserted highway somewhere and my car breaks down, and a lone man pulls up behind me and offers to help, no freaking way am I going to let him. If I'm outside changing my tire and he pulls up behind me, I'm running to get in my car and locking the doors.

Sorry if you're the nicest guy in the world. I am not taking that chance. Go away. You are not "helping" me unless you immediately realize that the best thing you can do, if anything is ask me if I need you to call for assistance or if I've already done that, and then leave.

I don't blame you for proactively protecting yourself; but I'm pretty sure that most often the offer of assistance is genuine and there is not reason for alarm. If you're in your car and have already called for assistance, politely tell the person who stopped "Thanks for stopping. I'm OK. I've called for help and they should be here soon."

[RetiredAt63]

Yep. @use2betrix , your "I treat everyone the exact same" stance is... well, not a great stance sometimes in the real world. Context matters. Situational awareness matters. Pretending like it doesn't matter won't magically make it not.

If I am alone on a fairly deserted highway somewhere and my car breaks down, and a lone man pulls up behind me and offers to help, no freaking way am I going to let him. If I'm outside changing my tire and he pulls up behind me, I'm running to get in my car and locking the doors.

Sorry if you're the nicest guy in the world. I am not taking that chance. Go away. You are not "helping" me unless you immediately realize that the best thing you can do, if anything is ask me if I need you to call for assistance or if I've already done that, and then leave.

I don't blame you for proactively protecting yourself; but I'm pretty sure that most often the offer of assistance is genuine and there is not reason for alarm. If you're in your car and have already called for assistance, politely tell the person who stopped "Thanks for stopping. I'm OK. I've called for help and they should be here soon."

The time I got a flat tire in my small town at night (10 PM?), I was really glad when a car went by, turned around, and came back and the 2 guys in it helped me change the tire. My arthritic knees were glad that I didn't have to do it all by myself.   But their whole approach was very laid back and non-threatening.

[Kris]

Yep. @use2betrix , your "I treat everyone the exact same" stance is... well, not a great stance sometimes in the real world. Context matters. Situational awareness matters. Pretending like it doesn't matter won't magically make it not.

If I am alone on a fairly deserted highway somewhere and my car breaks down, and a lone man pulls up behind me and offers to help, no freaking way am I going to let him. If I'm outside changing my tire and he pulls up behind me, I'm running to get in my car and locking the doors.

Sorry if you're the nicest guy in the world. I am not taking that chance. Go away. You are not "helping" me unless you immediately realize that the best thing you can do, if anything is ask me if I need you to call for assistance or if I've already done that, and then leave.

I don't blame you for proactively protecting yourself; but I'm pretty sure that most often the offer of assistance is genuine and there is not reason for alarm. If you're in your car and have already called for assistance, politely tell the person who stopped "Thanks for stopping. I'm OK. I've called for help and they should be here soon."

Yep, that's exactly right. I agree with you that the vast majority of offers of help would be genuine. But the reason that I wrote this response was another attempt to let men know that their best intentions can sometimes be extremely frightening to lone women. I'm not really saying "do not help someone." I'm saying, please recognize that what you think is a non-threatening, generous offer of help might be interpreted in a very different way. So at the very least, try to realize that and be on the lookout for signs that you're actually doing more harm than good.

There are definitely guys that give off a non-threatening vibe, and in those instances I'd be more inclined to accept their help. But I would still be a little wary/afraid, to be honest.

[robartsd]

There are definitely guys that give off a non-threatening vibe, and in those instances I'd be more inclined to accept their help. But I would still be a little wary/afraid, to be honest.

Always good to be wary - sometimes the most threatening people are the best practiced at giving off non-threatening vibes.

[Kris]

There are definitely guys that give off a non-threatening vibe, and in those instances I'd be more inclined to accept their help. But I would still be a little wary/afraid, to be honest.

Always good to be wary - sometimes the most threatening people are the best practiced at giving off non-threatening vibes.

Exactly. Which is why guys who think of themselves as "good guys" should not be offended if we are not immediately convinced of their "good guy-ness," and hopefully realize that if we don't trust them, it's nothing personal.

[partgypsy]

Huh. I have never worried about being alone in an elevator with a man. Maybe because I only take elevators in places I assume I'm safe, like at work or doctors offices. I'm usually running late, so I appreciate whoever decides to hold the door for me.

Context makes a huge difference (it also matters whether the man is a stranger). Elevators in my former workplaces during work hours? No problem. My former university building after hours? Probably not. The parking garage elevator or a hotel elevator at night? Definitely not.

Definitely context-dependent, but the isolated parking deck Kris was describing falls firmly on the "no" side.

I work in the south, but at least in my building it seems like men and women hold the door open for whoever is coming up behind them and there is not a lot of gendered differential going on. Same thing for people holding the elevator for people behind them. As far as getting into elevators in more questionable situation, I don't care if I sound weird or paranoid I will just say "I'll take the next one" and never had a problem with that.  If someone is super sketch I have done the whole, I forgot something and just change direction to go back a different way as well. 

[use2betrix]

If you wouldn't do it for man, then you shouldn't do it for a woman.

On the flip side, if you wouldn't get upset if a female did it, shouldn't you also not get upset if a male were doing it?  At what point do I have to start treating women LESS politely than a man because I'm afraid they'll think I'm being sexist?

As an example, I'm a generally helpful person, partially because so few people are nowadays.  I've stopped, on my bicycle, to help someone fixing their bicycle on the side of the road/trail, or at least ask if they needed any tools/tire patches.  I've done this for males and females.  Should I not do it if it's a woman, because I'm a man, and that can be viewed as 'oh let me stop and assist the poor helpless female'?  But then I'm treating them different because they're female.  It's all so confusing!

According to this thread, you shouldn’t stop and help the woman because she will automatically think you are going to sexually harass her.

Personally, I treat every single man, woman, black, white, brown, the exact same. Our society is doing everything in the world to view and treat everyone as equals. I’ll be damned if a single person expects me to treat them any differently because of their gender or color of their skin.

Don't be deliberately obtuse. If she's nervously looking around on the side of a dark road in a dangerous neighborhood, at least say something reassuring before you appear beside her. And if she declines help, go on our way, same as you would with anyone else.

Being aware of our surroundings in a different way is baked into being female in America. If you don't want to know that the reason a woman might not want you holding the elevator door when it's just two of you in a weird place, don't read about it. Other members here seem to be mildly interested in learning about the lived experiences of people who are not them.

Personal story: I was reading the newspaper (in my car: I was in a "standing but not parking" zone) in the Cell Phone lot at an airport Saturday, waiting to pick up my kids. I was aware that there were a bunch of motorcycles congregating behind me, but not really paying attention. After a bit, a grimy-looking guy came up and knocked gently on my door and started his request with "don't be afraid". (They needed me to pull up so the truck&trailer that was coming to take their bikes back to a coast had room to pull in.)  It was a really considerate way to start, made me laugh, and after I pulled forward I got out of my car and chatted with them about what they'd been doing.  A little bit of understanding the potential nuance of the situation went a really long way toward making it fun for everyone.

Yep. @use2betrix , your "I treat everyone the exact same" stance is... well, not a great stance sometimes in the real world. Context matters. Situational awareness matters. Pretending like it doesn't matter won't magically make it not.

If I am alone on a fairly deserted highway somewhere and my car breaks down, and a lone man pulls up behind me and offers to help, no freaking way am I going to let him. If I'm outside changing my tire and he pulls up behind me, I'm running to get in my car and locking the doors.

Sorry if you're the nicest guy in the world. I am not taking that chance. Go away. You are not "helping" me unless you immediately realize that the best thing you can do, if anything is ask me if I need you to call for assistance or if I've already done that, and then leave.

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

[RyanAtTanagra]

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

As a male, from a safety perspective, I think that's acceptable behavior.  Women live in a different would than I do.  I wish they didn't have to, and I'm not always good at recognizing it, but it's an unfortunate fact and I try to keep it in mind.

[use2betrix]

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

As a male, from a safety perspective, I think that's acceptable behavior.  Women live in a different would than I do.  I wish they didn't have to, and I'm not always good at recognizing it, but it's an unfortunate fact and I try to keep it in mind.

Have you ever looked up statistics of certain minority groups? Could you imagine if it was acceptable to treat people in those groups differently because of it?

I think there’s a term for that action.. can’t think of it off hand though.

[RyanAtTanagra]

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

As a male, from a safety perspective, I think that's acceptable behavior.  Women live in a different would than I do.  I wish they didn't have to, and I'm not always good at recognizing it, but it's an unfortunate fact and I try to keep it in mind.

Have you ever looked up statistics of certain minority groups? Could you imagine if it was acceptable to treat people in those groups differently because of it?

I think there’s a term for that action.. can’t think of it off hand though.

What's the alternative?  Women accepting an approaching male the same they would a female, and put themselves in harms way?  If I'm passing a woman on the sidewalk at night and see her grip her pepper spray, even though 30 seconds before she didn't do that when she passed another woman, why would I get upset about that?  To me that is rational behavior due to the world she lives in.  Same if she turns down the help of a male on the side of the road but not a female.

We can take the conversation to racism if you want, and discuss how it's the same or how it's not, but I'm not sure how that helps the topic at hand, or what you're trying to tell Kris she should be doing around males at night when she's alone and vulnerable.

[use2betrix]

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

As a male, from a safety perspective, I think that's acceptable behavior.  Women live in a different would than I do.  I wish they didn't have to, and I'm not always good at recognizing it, but it's an unfortunate fact and I try to keep it in mind.

Have you ever looked up statistics of certain minority groups? Could you imagine if it was acceptable to treat people in those groups differently because of it?

I think there’s a term for that action.. can’t think of it off hand though.

What's the alternative?  Women accepting an approaching male the same they would a female, and put themselves in harms way?  If I'm passing a woman on the sidewalk at night and see her grip her pepper spray, even though 30 seconds before she didn't do that when she passed another woman, why would I get upset about that?  To me that is rational behavior due to the world she lives in.  Same if she turns down the help of a male on the side of the road but not a female.

We can take the conversation to racism if you want, and discuss how it's the same or how it's not, but I'm not sure how that helps the topic at hand, or what you're trying to tell Kris she should be doing around males at night when she's alone and vulnerable.

Would it be acceptable for a single woman to openly state that she requires any black man she sleeps with to have an HIV test prior, but not for white men?

Because.. you know.. statistically..

I just don’t see how it should be socially acceptable to treat any person differently based on their gender (or race).

Spin it however you want.. it’s discriminatory.

[RyanAtTanagra]

So you treat men differently in these situations because men are statistically more likely to assault you. So based off that information you feel it’s acceptable to act differently towards them?

As a male, from a safety perspective, I think that's acceptable behavior.  Women live in a different would than I do.  I wish they didn't have to, and I'm not always good at recognizing it, but it's an unfortunate fact and I try to keep it in mind.

Have you ever looked up statistics of certain minority groups? Could you imagine if it was acceptable to treat people in those groups differently because of it?

I think there’s a term for that action.. can’t think of it off hand though.

What's the alternative?  Women accepting an approaching male the same they would a female, and put themselves in harms way?  If I'm passing a woman on the sidewalk at night and see her grip her pepper spray, even though 30 seconds before she didn't do that when she passed another woman, why would I get upset about that?  To me that is rational behavior due to the world she lives in.  Same if she turns down the help of a male on the side of the road but not a female.

We can take the conversation to racism if you want, and discuss how it's the same or how it's not, but I'm not sure how that helps the topic at hand, or what you're trying to tell Kris she should be doing around males at night when she's alone and vulnerable.

Would it be acceptable for a single woman to openly state that she requires any black man she sleeps with to have an HIV test prior, but not for white men?

Because.. you know.. statistically..

I just don’t see how it should be socially acceptable to treat any person differently based on their gender (or race).

Spin it however you want.. it’s discriminatory.

I think it's acceptable for anyone to require any kind of test for any reason from someone they're sleeping with.  The man can also get offended and decide not to sleep with her if he wants.

I'm still curious what you think the females should be doing differently in the example situations given in this thread.