Hearing more and more about UFOs?

[scottish]

Suppose, for example, that the speed of light is actually a hard limit that can never be broken.    All interstellar travel would take decades if not hundreds or thousands of year.

And suppose that there is no space drive.   All that can be done is rockets that  push spacecraft into and out of orbits, much as we did for the moon missions.

Life would be completely constrained to the star system where it developed.

I consider it extremely unlikely interstellar travel would pose an insurmountable engineering challenge. Hell, a lot of people alive today might live to see images brought back from Alpha Centauri from an interstellar probe. Travel would be many orders of magnitude harder but currently known physics should allow for practicable travel times.

Going back to my argument, sending a probe is not the same as sending people.    For example, known physics doesn't allow people to accelerate at 10000 gravities...

That’s what the inertial dampers are for.

On a more practical note, advanced aliens could just fold or scrunch space time to make distances shorter rather than deal with speed of light barriers or excessive force.

How about an artificial 10,000 g gravitational field then?    As long as it's uniform you won't need the inertial dampers.

[Captain Cactus]

So the general consensus in the forum is that it's not likely extraterrestrials (unless they've figured out how to bend space and time), but rather some kind of earthly technology that the US government claims they know nothing about. 

It's both terrifying and fascinating.

[Michael in ABQ]

So the general consensus in the forum is that it's not likely extraterrestrials (unless they've figured out how to bend space and time), but rather some kind of earthly technology that the US government claims they know nothing about. 

It's both terrifying and fascinating.

The Roswell incident in New Mexico was a combination of multiple events that people conflated years later, most of which were Top Secret at the time. Most were related to Project Mogul which involved balloons launched from Holloman AFB in southern New Mexico. The original incident in 1947 was really a type of balloon (the original cover story claimed they were weather balloons, not a secret R&D program) and the radar reflectors that hung from them so they could be tracked (a giant balloon doesn't provide much for radar to reflect off of). Another was a manned high-altitude balloon that crashed and one of the pilots received a head injury that caused massive swelling (thus aliens with big heads) and everyone at the base in Roswell, NM was told to keep quiet since it was a Top Secret mission.. In addition, some of the balloons would carry test dummies.

[GuitarStv]

It's totally aliens.

[Captain Cactus]

So the general consensus in the forum is that it's not likely extraterrestrials (unless they've figured out how to bend space and time), but rather some kind of earthly technology that the US government claims they know nothing about. 

It's both terrifying and fascinating.

The Roswell incident in New Mexico was a combination of multiple events that people conflated years later, most of which were Top Secret at the time. Most were related to Project Mogul which involved balloons launched from Holloman AFB in southern New Mexico. The original incident in 1947 was really a type of balloon (the original cover story claimed they were weather balloons, not a secret R&D program) and the radar reflectors that hung from them so they could be tracked (a giant balloon doesn't provide much for radar to reflect off of). Another was a manned high-altitude balloon that crashed and one of the pilots received a head injury that caused massive swelling (thus aliens with big heads) and everyone at the base in Roswell, NM was told to keep quiet since it was a Top Secret mission.. In addition, some of the balloons would carry test dummies.

It's interesting, but gosh, those videos of the flying tic-tac, the triangles, etc... they do seem to move quickly and in strange ways. 

That said, is there reason for the government to generate those videos and release them to the public (to the world) as possible UFOs?  Is this like a "Star Wars" (Regan, not Chewbacca) decoy program thing, to freak out our adversaries?

[scottish]

It's totally aliens.

Says the man (or alien) whose avatar is an alien on a bicycle.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

It's totally aliens.

Says the man (or alien) whose avatar is an alien on a bicycle.

Wow...why did I always think it was a dolphin....?

[GuitarStv]

It's totally aliens.

Says the man (or alien) whose avatar is an alien on a bicycle.

Wow...why did I always think it was a dolphin....?

[Captain Cactus]

Talk about "off topic".  Oy vey. 

[Luke Warm]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentagon-started-taking-ufos-seriously

[Captain Cactus]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentagon-started-taking-ufos-seriously

This is a fascinating read.  It sounds like the "skeptics'" explanations boil down to a modern version of "swamp gas".  Clearly something is going on.  But what? 

If the flying objects move in ways incompatible with the known laws of physics, and at speeds that would turn human beings "to soup"... I mean...what's going on?!

[GuitarStv]

It's just weird.  We're observing a phenomenon that we don't understand.  There are too many credible observations now to dismiss as entirely hoax.

[Luke Warm]

i just hope they do what they're going to do before the next election cycle.

[scottish]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentagon-started-taking-ufos-seriously

This is a fascinating read.  It sounds like the "skeptics'" explanations boil down to a modern version of "swamp gas".  Clearly something is going on.  But what? 

If the flying objects move in ways incompatible with the known laws of physics, and at speeds that would turn human beings "to soup"... I mean...what's going on?!

It's a space drive, see upthread somewhere.

[Captain Cactus]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentagon-started-taking-ufos-seriously

This is a fascinating read.  It sounds like the "skeptics'" explanations boil down to a modern version of "swamp gas".  Clearly something is going on.  But what? 

If the flying objects move in ways incompatible with the known laws of physics, and at speeds that would turn human beings "to soup"... I mean...what's going on?!

It's a space drive, see upthread somewhere.

Humans using space drive?  Or aliens using space drive?

[Captain Cactus]

What would the existence of extraterrestrials mean for our world?  I mean, the existence of aliens from another world would certainly have an impact on society, economy, religion.  Pretty much everything we felt we knew about as a certainty on earth could be upended. 

[GuitarStv]

What would the existence of extraterrestrials mean for our world?  I mean, the existence of aliens from another world would certainly have an impact on society, economy, religion.  Pretty much everything we felt we knew about as a certainty on earth could be upended.

If these objects are alien, there has been little to no real indication they're interested in dialog or exchange of information with us . . . so if that continues I wouldn't expect much difference along the lines of expanded knowledge/technology/economy.  Societally I suspect that we would see some related TV shows and merchandising, but not too much outside of that.

I think the people with the biggest changes to face would likely be religious.  Many religions are based around the concept of how important/unique/chosen humans are.  I suspect that proven existence of (apparently superior) aliens would throw a wrench into that concept and cause somewhat of a kerfuffle.  Historically, many religions have fought very hard to deny reality when it doesn't match up with their pre-determined point of view.

[talltexan]

Too bad this got moved to "off topic".  Was really hoping to get some perspectives/thoughts on this. 

As an aside, how is this any more "off topic" than Amazon buying up dead malls?  Or my other thread about "earthing/grounding" which remained in the general forum room?  Not trying to "get political" or whatever usually pushes topics into this less-frequently viewed forum room.

UFOs must really be a "trigger" for someone.  Oh well.

Off topic is one of the most active sections.

Your grounding thread was you asking about whether or not it was worth spending on grounding devices, which counts as a financial discussion.

Amazon buying up properties is also a financial discussion.

UFOs is pretty solidly an off topic discussion, and again, being moved to off topic is not a punishment to a thread, it's a very, very active section.

Maybe we can get it moved back. What percentage rate would you pay on a loan to purchase said UFO? Personally, I wouldn't finance. Pay cash for your UFO or wait until you can afford one.

Are you jonesing for an invite into the "Best Post I saw on MMM Forum Today"? Because optimizing UFO purchases seems like a contender.

[Captain Cactus]

What would the existence of extraterrestrials mean for our world?  I mean, the existence of aliens from another world would certainly have an impact on society, economy, religion.  Pretty much everything we felt we knew about as a certainty on earth could be upended.

If these objects are alien, there has been little to no real indication they're interested in dialog or exchange of information with us . . . so if that continues I wouldn't expect much difference along the lines of expanded knowledge/technology/economy.  Societally I suspect that we would see some related TV shows and merchandising, but not too much outside of that.

I think the people with the biggest changes to face would likely be religious.  Many religions are based around the concept of how important/unique/chosen humans are.  I suspect that proven existence of (apparently superior) aliens would throw a wrench into that concept and cause somewhat of a kerfuffle.  Historically, many religions have fought very hard to deny reality when it doesn't match up with their pre-determined point of view.

That has been the interesting part... they're flying around, defying physics, presumably gathering information on Earth, but nobody wants to stop and talk to the humans. 

I was thinking about this...what if the aliens possess some kind of technology that would allow a country or specific group of humans to take over the world, dominate everything.  And what if they gave that technology to some place like, I dunno, The Marshall Islands?!
 

[GuitarStv]

I for one, welcome our new alien overlords!

[frugalnacho]

The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner.  We're through the looking glass here people. 

[EvenSteven]

The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner.  We're through the looking glass here people.

Well, don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

[GuitarStv]

The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner.  We're through the looking glass here people.

Well, don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

We must go forward, not backward!  Upward, not downward!  And always . . . . twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!

[Abe]

We're probably in some highway interchange that they have to go through to get to wherever they're going. That's why they are going so fast all the time. When they pause it's because they're waiting for the wormhole to open up.

[Abe]

We're probably in some highway interchange that they have to go through to get to wherever they're going. That's why they are going so fast all the time. When they pause it's because they're waiting for the wormhole to open up.

Or we're their roadside rest stop off the Hyperpass Byway  enroute to Betalguese. Kind of like Fresno.

Yeah, you're right. Everywhere is somewhere's Fresno! Apologies to Fresnans.

[Metalcat]

We're probably in some highway interchange that they have to go through to get to wherever they're going. That's why they are going so fast all the time. When they pause it's because they're waiting for the wormhole to open up.

Or we're their roadside rest stop off the Hyperpass Byway  enroute to Betalguese. Kind of like Fresno.

I always thought we were like the tribe from "The Gods Must Be Crazy", and all we get to see of alien life is just refuse, and we make a big flippin deal about it.

[Captain Cactus]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

[EvenSteven]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I have no idea what the consensus is, maybe add a poll!

I would vote no. I don't know what they are, but I think it is extremely unlikely they are alien techmology.

[GuitarStv]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I have no idea what the consensus is, maybe add a poll!

I would vote no. I don't know what they are, but I think it is extremely unlikely they are alien techmology.

We don't have enough data to say what the things are.

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

[Samuel]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings. 

[GuitarStv]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

[Michael in ABQ]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

I've been briefed on Top Secret information only to see it reported in the news a year or two later. Classified information is just not as exciting as I assumed it would be. Most is fairly mundane.

There's some cool whiz bang stuff out there, but quite frankly most of it is either fairly niche or something that is commercially available. The days of military R&D being far beyond the private sector is pretty much over outside things that only have military significance i.e. stealth technology.

[jehovasfitness23]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I would say with a very high probablity there is alien life beyond us in the universe. Whether that is advanced life, or even advanced enough to travel beyond their star system is less likely and even less likely for the latter.

[Samuel]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

Perhaps I'm just underwhelmed by what they actually released? I know they confirmed the authenticity the Navy videos that were previously leaked (which don't really show anything particularly exciting once the nuances of the imaging systems are taken into account). Did I miss something juicier? Something more concrete than eyewitness reports that show the "beyond our technological abilities" movements of unexplained objects?

The eyewitness accounts from the Navy pilots are the most interesting recent development. They're highly credible for sure, but I just can't get myself to assume extraterrestrial explanations are likely on eyewitness accounts alone.

[GuitarStv]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

Perhaps I'm just underwhelmed by what they actually released? I know they confirmed the authenticity the Navy videos that were previously leaked (which don't really show anything particularly exciting once the nuances of the imaging systems are taken into account). Did I miss something juicier? Something more concrete than eyewitness reports that show the "beyond our technological abilities" movements of unexplained objects?

The eyewitness accounts from the Navy pilots are the most interesting recent development. They're highly credible for sure, but I just can't get myself to assume extraterrestrial explanations are likely on eyewitness accounts alone.

I spent five years working on military FLIR targeting systems of the sort that were leaked in these videos, and found what was being released and found the videos were very exciting - given the nuances of the imaging systems.  These systems just do not malfunction in a way that would give those types of visuals, and it's virtually impossible (at least would involve a lot of people and a lot of time) to hack them to fake it.

[scottish]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I would say with a very high probablity there is alien life beyond us in the universe. Whether that is advanced life, or even advanced enough to travel beyond their star system is less likely and even less likely for the latter.

Would an alien bacteria or algae (or the equivalent) count as alien life in your terms?     

[GuitarStv]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I would say with a very high probablity there is alien life beyond us in the universe. Whether that is advanced life, or even advanced enough to travel beyond their star system is less likely and even less likely for the latter.

Would an alien bacteria or algae (or the equivalent) count as alien life in your terms?   

Bacteria and algae both meet our current definition of life.  But our current definition of life depends entirely upon our own observations of terrestrial organisms.

[Samuel]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

Perhaps I'm just underwhelmed by what they actually released? I know they confirmed the authenticity the Navy videos that were previously leaked (which don't really show anything particularly exciting once the nuances of the imaging systems are taken into account). Did I miss something juicier? Something more concrete than eyewitness reports that show the "beyond our technological abilities" movements of unexplained objects?

The eyewitness accounts from the Navy pilots are the most interesting recent development. They're highly credible for sure, but I just can't get myself to assume extraterrestrial explanations are likely on eyewitness accounts alone.

I spent five years working on military FLIR targeting systems of the sort that were leaked in these videos, and found what was being released and found the videos were very exciting - given the nuances of the imaging systems.  These systems just do not malfunction in a way that would give those types of visuals, and it's virtually impossible (at least would involve a lot of people and a lot of time) to hack them to fake it.

Well that definitely gets my attention... I have enough familiarity with general photography and digital post processing that the alternative theories I've heard sound fairly plausible ("auras" being possible noise reduction/sharpening artifacts, apparent rotation being possible lens flaring/rotation of polarized filters, apparent high speed motion being explainable by parallax and misinterpreted distances from cameras, etc).

Which of the recent videos would you say is the best example of movement/action unlikely to be explainable by earthly, human phenomena?

[GuitarStv]

Military angle seems pretty unlikely though:
- who on Earth has been so technologically ahead of the US for all these years?
- why would the US military be telling us that they're no longer top dog?

Why would we assume that the US military would disclose, even internally, incredibly secret technology programs just because Navy pilots and radar operators report seeing some really unusual things? They would just let the pilots be confused and the reports languish as "unexplained".



I still lean pretty solidly towards advanced human tech being behind most or all UFO sightings.

This is super secret stuff that the military is hiding even from other branches of the military . . . but it's also something they were fine with public release of?  Seems like an odd way of going about things.

I ended up with secret clearance and worked on US military aircraft for the first five years of my career.  My faith in the ability of the military to effectively keep secrets/intelligence was greatly damaged during this period.  There are always a lot of talkative mouths required to service these things . . . and generally the more advanced, the more people required.

Perhaps I'm just underwhelmed by what they actually released? I know they confirmed the authenticity the Navy videos that were previously leaked (which don't really show anything particularly exciting once the nuances of the imaging systems are taken into account). Did I miss something juicier? Something more concrete than eyewitness reports that show the "beyond our technological abilities" movements of unexplained objects?

The eyewitness accounts from the Navy pilots are the most interesting recent development. They're highly credible for sure, but I just can't get myself to assume extraterrestrial explanations are likely on eyewitness accounts alone.

I spent five years working on military FLIR targeting systems of the sort that were leaked in these videos, and found what was being released and found the videos were very exciting - given the nuances of the imaging systems.  These systems just do not malfunction in a way that would give those types of visuals, and it's virtually impossible (at least would involve a lot of people and a lot of time) to hack them to fake it.

Well that definitely gets my attention... I have enough familiarity with general photography and digital post processing that the alternative theories I've heard sound fairly plausible ("auras" being possible noise reduction/sharpening artifacts, apparent rotation being possible lens flaring/rotation of polarized filters, apparent high speed motion being explainable by parallax and misinterpreted distances from cameras, etc).

Which of the recent videos would you say is the best example of movement/action unlikely to be explainable by earthly, human phenomena?

This video shows an object behaving in a pretty unusual manner:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/5/52/Gimbal_The_First_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm/Gimbal_The_First_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm.480p.vp9.webm

The f-18 is targeting it is flying at a constant speed (display shows mach .58 - around 400 mph) and decent altitude (25,000 ft).  Magnification for the whole video is set to 2x which is pretty low compared to what these cameras can do.  If you watch the top of the FLIR display, you can see the object is tracking around the aircraft from 54 degrees to the left of the aircraft groundtrack to 7 degrees to the right.  Unclear if this is because the aircraft is banking or if the object is moving quickly.  You can clearly see that the object is warm but doesn't show warm exhaust from propulsion, and that it's keeping a constant distance from the f-18.  Rotation at the end is certainly not lens flare.  It appears to be moving in an extremely unusual way for an aircraft or helicopter, particularly the apparent rotation at the end.  The pilot who captured the video says that he was not flying erratically, just banking to try to track the object and that the movement seen in the video was being made by the object https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-and-a-with-navy-pilot-chad-underwood.html.

The video looks pretty legitimately like a capture of something weird.  It could have been altered with any basic video editing software after the fact . . . except that the military has confirmed it was what was captured in the air.  And it intrigues me further that the other pilot mentions 'a fleet' of these things.  It looks possible that it's some sort of drone, based solely on the video - but what the pilots are saying makes that sound unlikely.

The radar operator who sent the F18s out to intercept said that he had been seeing these objects appearing at 80,000 ft and then dropped down to around 20,000 ft earlier than week off the coast of San Diego (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html).  Commander Fravor, who first flew to that location described the object as approximately 40-feet long with no wings, exhaust, or discernible propulsion (https://www3.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/01/16/this-former-navy-fighter-pilot-who-once-chased-ufo-says-should-take-them-seriously/MtfbLrDhNJRrO0MEzJRbDM/story.html?arc404=true). He described seeing it perform some maneuvering, then end up hovering above the water and rapidly ascended to 12,000 feet and accelerated away at higher than supersonic speeds.  The video was captured by one of the fighters later sent as part of a second wave to investigate what Fravor had reported seeing.

So they have video of something behaving pretty strangely, multiple pilots who reported seeing stuff that didn't make sense, and a radar operator who corroborated the story.  It could be a giant conspiracy for some unstated reason . . . but that seems imaginative.

[rab-bit]

Ezra Klein's opinion column in today's New York Times (may be behind a paywall):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/opinion/ufos-aliens-space.html?smid=url-share

[GuitarStv]

Which of the recent videos would you say is the best example of movement/action unlikely to be explainable by earthly, human phenomena?

If you don't like the previous video, this one is also pretty interesting:  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/FLIR1_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm

This was shot by Commander Fravor's plane.  He's flying perfectly straight and level for the whole shot at about 20,000 ft and half the speed of sound.  You can see that the object he's focusing on is remaining completely stationary in view (either hovering, or flying away at exactly the same angle of the approaching f18).  We can see from the angle of the FLIR that the object stays almost directly in front of the plane for the majority of the video.  The video starts out in IR mode, and again . . . no evidence of heat signature from propulsion is visible.

Mode is switched to black and white TV, and at 33 seconds there is an attempt to use the doppler to range find distance to the object.  The radar fails to find distance, which is quite unusual - there are no obstructions, weather conditions, the target is perfectly centered and there is no evasive action that would cause difficulty for this system failing to respond.  The FLIR is cycled through a few different modes as the object slowly drifts left.  At the end of the video (back in IR) you can see the object moves away at a high rate of speed off the left of the screen.  This movement is again unusual in that there isn't any ramp up of speed and there is no evidence of banking - it just goes from stopped to high tailing out of there.  Again there is no heat evidence of propulsion source.

This is weird stuff.

[scottish]

Can you tell us more about what we're seeing?   (apologies in advance if I make errors in terminology)

It looks like a target reticle about the unidentified object, is that correct?    And is it true that the flir is tracking the object in these videos?   I know the object seems to be stationary with respect to the imager in that last video, but on your earlier video it looked like the object was moving around the flir which was following it.

That horizontal line above the reticle, does that show the horizon?

Would you normally see an exhaust plume in the imagery?    Both for a jet engine and a propeller engine?   

[GuitarStv]

Can you tell us more about what we're seeing?   (apologies in advance if I make errors in terminology)

It looks like a target reticle about the unidentified object, is that correct?  And is it true that the flir is tracking the object in these videos?

It's not a sensor target (which would be used for a weapons lock and come from either a laser or radar).  In both videos you're seeing the FLIR doing passive targeting, where the system is trying to follow the contrasting pixels that the pilot has targeted against the background.  In the second video that's why it keeps dropping target as he switches through the different video modes - the algorithm for doing this type of tracking changes as you change from IR to TV.  Also in the second video you can see that he tried to do range finding with his doppler (sends out radar pulses and counts the time to get a return for ranging - same principle as a police officers radar gun), but the system was spitting out garbage (all 9s) because it was unable to lock properly.

You can tell when the FLIR is moving by the number at the top.  The number at the top (which is followed by a degree symbol and then L or R) is telling you which way the FLIR is pointing.  0 degrees corresponds to straight ahead, 90 R would be directly to the right, etc.  The FLIR camera sits in a little pod under one of the wings usually, it has a motor that allows for 360 degree turning and a certain amount of up/down tracking as well.  Most of the FLIRs that I worked on were for helicopter S&R missions, and our test videos were of pilots flying a few thousand feet above a field and targeting rabbits with the sensors.  The F18 ones are slightly different, but seem to follow mostly the same principles.

I know the object seems to be stationary with respect to the imager in that last video, but on your earlier video it looked like the object was moving around the flir which was following it.

Yes, in the first video the pilot is banking to follow the object and the flir is holding on the contrast image to track the object.

That horizontal line above the reticle, does that show the horizon?

Yes.

Would you normally see an exhaust plume in the imagery?    Both for a jet engine and a propeller engine?

Yep.  The FLIR are incredibly sensitive to heat differences.  They can spot the head signature of a rabbit in a field from thousands of feet away, an exhaust plume is very easily visible.

A jet gives a very bright signal from the exhaust, especially when moving quickly.  Looks like this in IR:


Even in the regular black and white TV image you can usually see the exhaust when they're pushing the throttle because it's so bright that it contrasts with the dark sky.  (In the picture above you're seeing the whole jet showing up as bright because of heat from friction of moving through the air.)


Propeller engines (or rotors on helicopters) won't push out heat like a jet in a plume at the back.  The rotors/propellers themselves will usually heat up, and there are usually very strong heat signatures from the motors that spin them.  I doubt the object in the gimbal video could have been a helicopter based on the way it rotated in place at the end.  Helicopters move in a very predictable pattern, they have to push their nose down in a very particular pattern to get forward thrust from the rotors.  Helicopters (and propeller based drones) are very slow compared to jets.  There's no way that either could have outrun F18s attempting to track them.

[jehovasfitness23]

Not that it matters now that everything we ever held as true and real has been shattered... but is the MMM Forum consensus that these are in fact extraterrestrials?  Or advanced human military technology?

I would say with a very high probablity there is alien life beyond us in the universe. Whether that is advanced life, or even advanced enough to travel beyond their star system is less likely and even less likely for the latter.

Would an alien bacteria or algae (or the equivalent) count as alien life in your terms?   

yes

[Captain Cactus]

@GuitarStv Thank you for those thoughtful posts and examples. 

[Captain Cactus]

Algae and bacteria definitely count as extraterrestrial life.  I wonder... would "alien" bacteria look like Earth bacteria?  And if so, could there be a link between space-borne bacteria and what we see on Earth?  ie bacteria crashed to Earth, "sparking life"?  And if that's the origin of life on Earth... where did that life come from originally... what sparked the original life?

And to go even more "off topic"... what existed before the Big Bang?  What exists outside of our ever-expanding universe? 

That NYT article was interesting... particularly the notion that Earthlings wouldn't be terribly phased to find out extraterrestrial life exists/has interacted with Earth in the past. 

[EvenSteven]

Algae and bacteria definitely count as extraterrestrial life.  I wonder... would "alien" bacteria look like Earth bacteria?  And if so, could there be a link between space-borne bacteria and what we see on Earth?  ie bacteria crashed to Earth, "sparking life"?  And if that's the origin of life on Earth... where did that life come from originally... what sparked the original life?

And to go even more "off topic"... what existed before the Big Bang?  What exists outside of our ever-expanding universe? 

That NYT article was interesting... particularly the notion that Earthlings wouldn't be terribly phased to find out extraterrestrial life exists/has interacted with Earth in the past.

Hang on, I need to go buy another eighth.

[joe189man]

Thanks @GuitarStv awesome stuff

i was wondering if we can bet on if aliens are real and found this long list of encounters/incidents

https://k945.com/vegas-betting-odds-on-first-contact-with-aliens-have-improved-10x/

One question i have about these phenomena in general is, if these UFOs or UAPs are indeed Aliens, what are they doing here? If they have this crazy advanced technology why come here and potentially make contact with us hairless apes? We have to be like ants under their boots when comparing technology and abilities. Are we ready to be brought into the intergalactic federation, have humans proved their worth? Are they scouting the planet for an invasion or extermination? All these questions yield pretty wild answers. Or maybe the illuminati and Davos are getting sloppy in their take over the world plans.

[SunnyDays]

I don’t remember the details, but there was a video clip shown recently on TV (possibly taken by some branch of the military) where routine recording using IR was being done during flight.  It picked up a typical saucer shaped disc that was visible only through IR.  Nothing was seen by the naked eye (shown through regular video) and nothing was visible on radar either.  How is that possible?

Assuming these are extraterrestrials, I think if they were here to exterminate us, they would have done it a long time ago.  If we have anything they want, it’s likely in the realm of a natural resource and we wouldn’t be able to stop them from taking it.  It’s possible that they’re just going about their business while trying to remain elusive.  Any civilization that advanced would presumably know that we wouldn’t understand them and that our beliefs about the world, science and religion would be blown to bits by them making themselves clearly known.  We have so little idea of what the entirety of reality consists of, they could well be acting in a compassionate manner by remaining fairly hidden.

[Radagast]

The most fascinating thing about UFOs is that they haven't disappeared as our imaging and recording systems have improved. Now that everyone has a cell phone and our advanced camera, radar, and other systems are ubiquitous, highly sensitive, and backed by powerful software eg Bigfoot and Nessie mysteriously vanished. But our images of UFOs are better than ever (in a vague fuzzy indistinct kind of way)!

I always like reading great unsolved UFO stories and seeing photos and videos, but it seems like there is a sea of garbage to wade through to get them. If anyone has links to sites that cut through the garbage I would love to know.