We’re fans, and very excited for the last season.
I think Jamie will die. Maybe at the hands of Cersei.
Jamie dying would be the natural conclusion of his redemption arc.
They’ll probably have Hound “kill” Mountain tho I don’t think there’s any dramatic tension left in that arc since Mountain is already dead.
Your other three faves are probably safe.
Honestly, the logical narrative arcs for every character are complete. Big swerves now would just be contrarian. I’d be really (pleasantly) surprised if they pulled one off without it feeling like the fulfillment of a meme.
Ending with anything other than:
-beating the Walkers
-Jon/Dany as co-rulers
-Tyrion as Hand/lord of Casterly Rock
-Sansa as lady of Winterfell
-Brienne being awesome somewhere
-Cersei dying
would be a narrative disappointment. I hope they stay the course now rather than throwing it away because “surprises are what GoT is known for!”. Given how S7.1 was structured it seems like the show runners understand this but ya never know.
If I were writing this thing: Arya will take down Cercei and Jamie will witness it and choose not to intervene.
If they are good writers the twists will make the story line stronger and better.
If it follows the "logical narrative" as you laid out that'd be pretty boring.
QuoteIf they are good writers the twists will make the story line stronger and better.
Sure, easy to say that. My point was at stage in the game -essentially the end of Act 3- I’m struggling to envision a twist, especially one involving our principal characters, that makes things “stronger and better”.QuoteIf it follows the "logical narrative" as you laid out that'd be pretty boring.
It would? Just having an enormous battle against the undead with aerial dragon fighting would be boring? We’ve only got 6 episodes here. Roughly speaking, 1 to resolve Cersei, 1 to screw around with Theon, 1 to rally everyone together, probably 2 full episodes of battle followed by a full episode of denouement. Not a lot of runway left for narrative realignment.
If I can get to a keyboard I’ll write a longer piece on why I think additional character deaths (beyond Cersei/Jaime) would serve little purpose but for now I’ll just say I’d be happy to be surprised in a few weeks.
Bran is going to play an interesting role and I really have no Idea how its going to come into play.
Who do you think will end up on the throne, if anyone?
A part of me thinks no one will. The show will end with Westeros in ruins and nothing left to rule. Martin likes to throw twists in though, so it's hard to predict what might happen.
Who do you think will end up on the throne, if anyone?
A part of me thinks no one will. The show will end with Westeros in ruins and nothing left to rule. Martin likes to throw twists in though, so it's hard to predict what might happen.
The army of the dead could easily win, presenting some sort of parable for cooperation or good governing.
Predictions for this season?Your tinfoil is right along the lines of the spoiler I saw. I think it is very likely to go down that way (Jon having to kill him to save everyone else).
Oh so many. D&D were given the broad strokes from GRRM, so I don't expect the ending to match the books, but I have high hopes for some of the prophesy:
- Brienne/Jamie and Sandor will take down The Mountain (A golden knight and a man with the head of a hound facing a foe full of black blood)
- Jon and Dany end up together with Tyrion as hand (the dragon has three heads), even if they don't all survive
- Drogon will slay wight Viserion with fire, mirroring Drogo killing Viserys
- Jamie will kill Cersei (the valonquar prophesy)
- Some tinfoil: The "Night King" (different than in the books) is actually Bran from the future, who wargs into the First Man the children turned at the time of the ritual that created the White Walkers, where he gets stuck and eventually goes mad; this is why the Night King is so attuned to Bran, they are one
If you could, who would you give plot armor to?
Tyrion (he is GRRM in the story) and Jon (who is literally the Song of Ice and Fire [R+L=J, with R being a talented musician])
Of all the characters, who would make the best ruler? (Even among those who don't legitimately have a chance to rule)
Jon with Tyrion as hand
Who do you think will end up on the throne, if anyone?
Not sure if anyone will. Dany had a vision of walking through the Red Keep, which was roofless, while white powder fell all around her. This could either be ash or snow. Either way I believe the throne will be destroyed somehow.
I'm most excited for Brandon's role. 'You'll never walk again, but you will fly'. I hope this is a reference to Brandon warging into a dragon rather than the ravens he's been using to spy on the army of the dead.
How is everyone watching GOT this season? HBO Now ap?
Despite having read the books and watched the tv show, DH totally forgot Tyrion and Sansa are married (or were, actually can't remember if that was resolved) when they first met last night. Also, it had never even occurred to me that Jamie would have to face Bran at some point.
My god, I'm kind of glad this is finally wrapping up. I started reading this series TWENTY YEARS AGO (and that was several years after publication), Martin is never going to finish the books, and I can't believe the series itself has been airing since 2011. It's exhausting and I just want some closure LOL.
I was a little underwhelmed by the premiere. 7/10.
Yes, it was good to see everyone again, and I know they had to move the chess pieces around a bit, but I was hoping for a little bit of forward momentum. I do like that they ended the episode with the dead on the move quickly. I would expect some sort of epic battle in Episode 3.
I was a little underwhelmed by the premiere. 7/10.
Yes, it was good to see everyone again, and I know they had to move the chess pieces around a bit, but I was hoping for a little bit of forward momentum. I do like that they ended the episode with the dead on the move quickly. I would expect some sort of epic battle in Episode 3.
I will give an MVP for each of these last 6 episodes.
For Episode 1, my MVP is Arya. I loved her reunion with Jon, I loved her "first I robbed you" line to the Hound, and I loved her awkward flirting with Gendry.
One hell of a TV show
. I’m a big fan.
Just about to rewatch the episode with my DW.
I was a little underwhelmed by the premiere. 7/10.
Yes, it was good to see everyone again, and I know they had to move the chess pieces around a bit, but I was hoping for a little bit of forward momentum. I do like that they ended the episode with the dead on the move quickly. I would expect some sort of epic battle in Episode 3.
I will give an MVP for each of these last 6 episodes.
For Episode 1, my MVP is Arya. I loved her reunion with Jon, I loved her "first I robbed you" line to the Hound, and I loved her awkward flirting with Gendry.
Mostly posting to follow.
I didn't quite catch it, but I believe the Hound did not see Arya when he rode in. That's a meeting I'm looking forward to!
How is everyone watching GOT this season? HBO Now ap?HBO Now on PC for us. Played 100% smoothly despite everyone hammering the HBO servers at the same time, and looked good even on our so-bad 6mbps DSL.
I keep wondering if Tyrion made some sort of deal with Sersei in the season 7 finale?
I keep wondering if Tyrion made some sort of deal with Sersei in the season 7 finale?
We rewatched the S7 final right before watching the Season 8 premier and I'm with you, Tyrion had to give Cersei something, or at least make her think she's getting something. I do not believe that he would turn on Dany and The North, especially since he really likes Jon, was married to Sansa, and designed Bran's wheelchair and saddle.
I keep wondering if Tyrion made some sort of deal with Sersei in the season 7 finale?
We rewatched the S7 final right before watching the Season 8 premier and I'm with you, Tyrion had to give Cersei something, or at least make her think she's getting something. I do not believe that he would turn on Dany and The North, especially since he really likes Jon, was married to Sansa, and designed Bran's wheelchair and saddle.
I don't know I wondered that too but part of me just thinks maybe she told him that she'd help just to get him to leave kings landing (and take the dragons and unsullied with him).
Who knows. Defintley excited to see Jamie/Tyrions reunion and how he takes it when he finds out she lied. Curious if he did promise her anything if he would reveal it to Jamie at that time. You'd assume that will happen next week right, with only 5 weeks to go gotta move it on.
No chance Jamie would keep the lie going and say the troops are right behind him??
My MVP for this episode: Brienne. Her reaction to being knighted was probably one of my favorite moments in the entire series. True, I think it seals her fate, but it was an epic scene.
And did anyone else notice the Ghost cameo?Yeah, Ghost looked small and had no interactions. Wish they could've done a little more there but ah well, great episode. The audience knows a lot of information at this point and am glad they can imply things we already know without having to spell it out between every character that was previously in the dark about something. e.g. Jon saying his mother died giving birth with all the bloody details didn't come from Sam, obviously he has chatted in depth with Bran about things even though they haven't shown Bran talking with anyone except Tyrion this past ep.
And well done Arya and Gendry.
And did anyone else notice the Ghost cameo?Yeah, Ghost looked small and had no interactions. Wish they could've done a little more there but ah well, great episode. The audience knows a lot of information at this point and am glad they can imply things we already know without having to spell it out between every character that was previously in the dark about something. e.g. Jon saying his mother died giving birth with all the bloody details didn't come from Sam, obviously he has chatted in depth with Bran about things even though they haven't shown Bran talking with anyone except Tyrion this past ep.
And well done Arya and Gendry.
Glad Ned and Robert finally "joined their houses", especially since Joff didn't even have his DNA. ;-)
I'm betting something is going to occur next ep that doesn't bring a conclusion to the White Walkers. I mean, they were the real threat in the pilot episode and their mythology and background has been teased - would be a letdown if they get wiped out in a single episode and it's back to humans squabbling with other humans.Spoiler: show
And did anyone else notice the Ghost cameo?Yeah, Ghost looked small and had no interactions. Wish they could've done a little more there but ah well, great episode. The audience knows a lot of information at this point and am glad they can imply things we already know without having to spell it out between every character that was previously in the dark about something. e.g. Jon saying his mother died giving birth with all the bloody details didn't come from Sam, obviously he has chatted in depth with Bran about things even though they haven't shown Bran talking with anyone except Tyrion this past ep.
And well done Arya and Gendry.
Glad Ned and Robert finally "joined their houses", especially since Joff didn't even have his DNA. ;-)
I'm betting something is going to occur next ep that doesn't bring a conclusion to the White Walkers. I mean, they were the real threat in the pilot episode and their mythology and background has been teased - would be a letdown if they get wiped out in a single episode and it's back to humans squabbling with other humans.Spoiler: showSpoiler: show
I actually don't think Jaime is on the chopping block in this battle,
Agree, Bronn has to be involved so then Jamie can die in the arms of the woman he loves (or tall blond woman who loves him dearly, whatever).QuoteI actually don't think Jaime is on the chopping block in this battle,
He and Tyrion are safe for now since they aren't going to waste the setup with Bronn from Ep. 1
Now that I think about it more, I wonder if the sequence of events is something like this:
The humans and the Night King end up deadlocked at Winterfell, neither side able to win.
Cersei offers to trade her game-changer army for, say, the decapitated head of Dany. Or a dragon. This would stir up all kinds of plot-worthy conflict at Winterfell, because Jon Snow, of course, would sacrifice himself without hesitation, but I'm not sure that Dany would. They've already laid a lot of groundwork for the fact that the Starks, and Jon Snow's friends, are loyal to the North and each other in a way that Dany's allies aren't. Plus he's got one younger cousin/sibling who can change faces, and another who's clairvoyant, which could add all kinds of twists to a plot like that.
Of course, I am terrible at this, so it's probably something else entirely.
I'm more and more thinking that the NK will skip Winterfell altogether and instead go straight to KL where he can make an even larger army (they specifically talked about the population of KL in one of the later S7 episodes). This would allow the assembledAvengerscharacters in WF to win the battle, but then learn from Bronn (who is travelling north on foot) where the NK went with wight Viserion and Bran would then confirm what happens via Greensight. This would setup an inverse-seige, similar to the last stand in Return of the King where they drew out Sauron's armies to allow Frodo and Sam to cross Mordor unhindered. It also simplifies the need for 2 discrete wars (living vs. dead and living-Cercei vs Cercei), instead transitioning to a large skirmish followed by a final showdown against the same enemy.
I'm more and more thinking that the NK will skip Winterfell altogether and instead go straight to KL where he can make an even larger army (they specifically talked about the population of KL in one of the later S7 episodes). This would allow the assembledAvengerscharacters in WF to win the battle, but then learn from Bronn (who is travelling north on foot) where the NK went with wight Viserion and Bran would then confirm what happens via Greensight. This would setup an inverse-seige, similar to the last stand in Return of the King where they drew out Sauron's armies to allow Frodo and Sam to cross Mordor unhindered. It also simplifies the need for 2 discrete wars (living vs. dead and living-Cercei vs Cercei), instead transitioning to a large skirmish followed by a final showdown against the same enemy.
I do like that, especially the "the need for 2 discrete wars" point. It would extend the tension for 3 straight episodes and drive the stakes up higher with the climax in Episode 5!
Because beating the NK IS the climax. So if you beat him in Episode 3, you've "saved humanity" already. Beating up on a queen and her outmanned forces would be a letdown after that.
I'm more and more thinking that the NK will skip Winterfell altogether and instead go straight to KL where he can make an even larger army (they specifically talked about the population of KL in one of the later S7 episodes). This would allow the assembledAvengerscharacters in WF to win the battle, but then learn from Bronn (who is travelling north on foot) where the NK went with wight Viserion and Bran would then confirm what happens via Greensight. This would setup an inverse-seige, similar to the last stand in Return of the King where they drew out Sauron's armies to allow Frodo and Sam to cross Mordor unhindered. It also simplifies the need for 2 discrete wars (living vs. dead and living-Cercei vs Cercei), instead transitioning to a large skirmish followed by a final showdown against the same enemy.
I do like that, especially the "the need for 2 discrete wars" point. It would extend the tension for 3 straight episodes and drive the stakes up higher with the climax in Episode 5!
Because beating the NK IS the climax. So if you beat him in Episode 3, you've "saved humanity" already. Beating up on a queen and her outmanned forces would be a letdown after that.
Ooh, good point! We know that at least some of the NK's army goes to Winterfell, given that they arrive just before the end of Episode 2, but we don't really know how close he has to be to his forces to command them. So he might very well send some South (especially given that the countryside is emptied out by people fleeing or getting zombified, word might not spread fast) while another part of his forces are at Winterfell keeping them busy or trying to pick off Bran. Since the NK has a dragon, he could easily catch up with his second army once Winterfell is pacified. And wasn't there some comment about a more southern ally of the Starks (the Tullys, or someone like that) who refused to pitch in at Winterfell? That would be very Game of Thrones for them to get wiped off the map by a second NK army...
And wasn't there some comment about a more southern ally of the Starks (the Tullys, or someone like that) who refused to pitch in at Winterfell? That would be very Game of Thrones for them to get wiped off the map by a second NK army...I don't know if you mean House Glover from Deepwood Motte. They're in the North and actually a little bit north of Winterfell. After Jon bent the knee last season Robett took his forces home (after getting scolded by Lyanna Mormont and then apologizing to Jon after not fighting with the Starks in the BotB). Aside from the Umbers (RIP), I'm not sure anyone else has refused to pitch in at Winterfell, at least from the North.
I'm more and more thinking that the NK will skip Winterfell altogether and instead go straight to KL where he can make an even larger army (they specifically talked about the population of KL in one of the later S7 episodes)...
I'm more and more thinking that the NK will skip Winterfell altogether and instead go straight to KL where he can make an even larger army (they specifically talked about the population of KL in one of the later S7 episodes)...
Okay. I have pretty much abandoned any attempt to predict what is going to happen, but would rather just let the conclusion wash over me, whatever it may be, for good or ill.
But THAT...is a bloody brilliant theory. Makes sense on so many levels and I believe it would allow for a somewhat satisfying conclusion...with a mere 4 EPISODES LEFT! *sniff*
But before that happens, anyone have any intel or theory on the iconography we saw back Last Hearth --- that spiral sun design? It seems like it must be quite important for the Night King's army to have spent that time and effort on but I can't think what it could mean.
My predictions after these first two episodes:
Jon will die, again, during or just after the great battle but Dany is pregnant with their child
...
Dany, finding the Iron Throne turned to slag by the fire, returns north to Winterfell to rule from there and raise Jon's child. Sansa is keeping a close eye on her as the madness that took her grandfather seems to be coming for her. Arya, pregnant with Robert Baratheon's grandchild, is Dany's hand. The wheel is set for another round of fights for the Seven Kingdoms with the heirs to the Targareon, Baratheon, and Starks (through Sansa) still around.
Agreed, same pattern used in S3 at the Fist of the First Men I think when Mance said, "Always the artists." However, the pilot episode had a different pattern altogether - a circle with a single line through the middle that extends on one side (kinda looked like a tree?? but hard to make out). I'm not sure if there are multiple patterns that mean different things or if they just abandoned that and are just going with the spiral now - which is definitely from the CotF reveal in S6.But before that happens, anyone have any intel or theory on the iconography we saw back Last Hearth --- that spiral sun design? It seems like it must be quite important for the Night King's army to have spent that time and effort on but I can't think what it could mean.
It's a perversion of the stone layout around the weirwood tree where the Children of the Forest created the first White Walker, kinda like a twisted calling card (said the guy who plays the Night King in an interview).
This has to be my favorite set of predictions thus far. What about House Lannister? Cersei was told about the death of her children, but as someone mentioned upthread, Maggy's prediction was in one of the books, not the series. What are the odds that Cersei would flee KL, go into hiding, and survive long enough to give birth? If this doesn't happen, might Jaime or Tyrion live long enough to father the last scion of the Lannister dynasty?
This has to be my favorite set of predictions thus far. What about House Lannister? Cersei was told about the death of her children, but as someone mentioned upthread, Maggy's prediction was in one of the books, not the series. What are the odds that Cersei would flee KL, go into hiding, and survive long enough to give birth? If this doesn't happen, might Jaime or Tyrion live long enough to father the last scion of the Lannister dynasty?
Pretty sure Jaime told Tyrion that he thinks Cersei lied about the baby so that's a dead end for their house. Unless her new boy toy Euron does as he promised and gets her "with a prince". We've lost a few houses in these wars and will likely lose a number more before it's done. All of them if they don't stop the Night King, of course.
I truly think the only one who MIGHT make it from House Lannister is Tyrion and he's becoming so broken that after losing the remaining ones of his family, he probably won't have a life that would include kids of his own. I'm pretty sure there was an episode that mentioned the prophecy Maggy gave Cersei but it was a long, long way back, maybe pre-Joffrey death so I've always expected Tyrion to be the one to do her in (though someone else pointed out that Jaime is also her younger brother by minutes). The only twist would be him doing it out of mercy instead of hate like she's shown him his whole life.
I don't know the whole Westeros history but this bloody Iron Throne is seeming a bit cursed, isn't it? Mad King - dead by Jaime to save the people of Kings Landing. Robert Baratheon - dead by Cersei's machincations. Joffrey - dead and deservedly so. Cersei is getting less and less human the longer she sits on it and lots of us are predicting her death before it's all over. I'd love for it to be destroyed so Dany never sits on it but then, it's the power of the king/queen-ship and the struggle to keep it that's really corrupting so physical throne or no, Dany's in danger of becoming the next "mad" ruler.
Thanks @simonsez and @Wilson Hall and @Philociraptor for the info on the patterns. I found a link on another site (https://decider.com/2019/04/15/game-of-thrones-white-walkers-spiral-symbols-meaning/ (https://decider.com/2019/04/15/game-of-thrones-white-walkers-spiral-symbols-meaning/)) that did cover some of the iconography that had been puzzling me. Having clues spread out over the years makes it hard to pull all the threads together.
This has to be my favorite set of predictions thus far. What about House Lannister? Cersei was told about the death of her children, but as someone mentioned upthread, Maggy's prediction was in one of the books, not the series...
...I'm pretty sure there was an episode that mentioned the prophecy Maggy gave Cersei...
I considered Theon expendable until I saw Sansa's reaction to him.
My attempt at a prediction is that the Hound will die and Arya will kill the Mountain using his face.
Valonqar is book-only, no mention of that part on show.This has to be my favorite set of predictions thus far. What about House Lannister? Cersei was told about the death of her children, but as someone mentioned upthread, Maggy's prediction was in one of the books, not the series...
...I'm pretty sure there was an episode that mentioned the prophecy Maggy gave Cersei...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6kQJ9HPpQ4
I don't know the whole Westeros history but this bloody Iron Throne is seeming a bit cursed, isn't it? Mad King - dead by Jaime to save the people of Kings Landing. Robert Baratheon - dead by Cersei's machincations. Joffrey - dead and deservedly so. Cersei is getting less and less human the longer she sits on it and lots of us are predicting her death before it's all over. I'd love for it to be destroyed so Dany never sits on it but then, it's the power of the king/queen-ship and the struggle to keep it that's really corrupting so physical throne or no, Dany's in danger of becoming the next "mad" ruler.
And did anyone else notice the Ghost cameo?Yeah, Ghost looked small and had no interactions. Wish they could've done a little more there but ah well, great episode. The audience knows a lot of information at this point and am glad they can imply things we already know without having to spell it out between every character that was previously in the dark about something. e.g. Jon saying his mother died giving birth with all the bloody details didn't come from Sam, obviously he has chatted in depth with Bran about things even though they haven't shown Bran talking with anyone except Tyrion this past ep.
And well done Arya and Gendry.
Glad Ned and Robert finally "joined their houses", especially since Joff didn't even have his DNA. ;-)
I'm betting something is going to occur next ep that doesn't bring a conclusion to the White Walkers. I mean, they were the real threat in the pilot episode and their mythology and background has been teased - would be a letdown if they get wiped out in a single episode and it's back to humans squabbling with other humans.Spoiler: showSpoiler: show
QuoteI actually don't think Jaime is on the chopping block in this battle,
He and Tyrion are safe for now since they aren't going to waste the setup with Bronn from Ep. 1
Great episode (which we had to watch a few days late). I've been waiting for these kind of scenes for soooo long. Also, I have fully expected Grey Worm to die SO MANY times before, so you'd think I'd be fully emotionally prepared going into this battle...but I felt stupidly weepy every time he was onscreen. Who knew I'd get so attached? Damn you, show. ETA: Obv knighting Brienne was great, but I was also surprised how I welled up at Theon's scene. That little asshole has come a long way.
I don't know the whole Westeros history but this bloody Iron Throne is seeming a bit cursed, isn't it? Mad King - dead by Jaime to save the people of Kings Landing. Robert Baratheon - dead by Cersei's machincations. Joffrey - dead and deservedly so. Cersei is getting less and less human the longer she sits on it and lots of us are predicting her death before it's all over. I'd love for it to be destroyed so Dany never sits on it but then, it's the power of the king/queen-ship and the struggle to keep it that's really corrupting so physical throne or no, Dany's in danger of becoming the next "mad" ruler.
Iirc, in the books there was mention of a past king who was literally killed by the Iron Throne. Accidently impaled on one of the swords.
Does Arya gain stature, though, when she takes a face? It won't fool anyone if the Hound has shrunk to 5'0".
QuoteDoes Arya gain stature, though, when she takes a face? It won't fool anyone if the Hound has shrunk to 5'0".
I believe so. No one seemed to think anything was off when she took out House Frey. The magic that allows her to change faces must somehow allow a complete physical transformation.
Not gonna lie, that episode upset me. Not because of deaths, but because of lazy writing. And I know they may have been forced into some plots due to time constants and other factors, but there were just so many issues with the episode... I sure hope there's a book announcement soon.
But it was a shame that so much of it was so hard to see. I mean, the Battle of Helms Deep took place at night too, but we could make out what was going on. With all the fire and snowstorms and the darkness, oh the darkness!, I think it all actually lessened the tension as opposed to heightening it. I couldn't get too nervous for Jamie and Brienne and Tormund and others because I couldn't f'ing see what they were doing most of the time.
It's very tough for me to be overly critical. It's a miracle that we are getting something like this on television at all. Sure, the show runners could have made some different choices (less shaky cam, more lighting)...but considering the constraints they are working under - limited episodes to work with, and a lazy author who is providing the source material - I found it fairly incredible overall.I'm sorry you find that 70 year old who is a multiple Hugo, Nebula award winner for things besides strictly dealing with the world of Planetos, who takes an active role in local art, attends conventions, maintains a blog, and generally does whatever he wants - to be lazy on a forum that generally celebrates doing whatever you want when FI.
invoke Neil Gaiman, George Martin is not your bitch.
Quoteinvoke Neil Gaiman, George Martin is not your bitch.
Can we, like, not? Just once? Both of you?
I'm as tired as anyone of entitled dolts moaning for the next book but at this point I'm *almost* as sick of sanctimonious "good" fans rushing to quote Gaiman in his defense.
So the North is almost completely depopulated now, right? They were nearly killed to a man in the Battle of the Bastards, now nearly killed to a man in Winterfell.
So the North is almost completely depopulated now, right? They were nearly killed to a man in the Battle of the Bastards, now nearly killed to a man in Winterfell.
Yep everyone is dead except the main characters who can’t die no matter how much they try.
I feel a bit torn about the episode. I was definitely on the edge of my seat for the whole 90 mins, as as a stand-alone piece it was epic and great entertainment.
But, on the other hand, as a long time reader/ viewer I am left a little underwhelmed. This was the Great War, the climax of the whole shebang, and most of the main characters were impotent.
Jon useless, Sam useless (true to character for a battle, but hoped he’d use his smarts some way), Dany useless (maybe slightly less than Jon), Tyrion useless, Sansa useless, Davos useless..... and what was Bram even doing the whole show.
But maybe that was the whole point. In the face of the hordes of the undead there was nothing anyone could do, except Arya.
Like many others, I would have loved to have seen some of the fan theories as being correct.
I wanted to be more shocked eg: little Sam killed and turned, attacking Sam.. or A blue eyed Grey worm attacking Missendai. And I would have liked to have seen a least one of the white walkers killed so that there would have been a whole section of the army of the dead turn to dust. And I would have like more main characters to have been killed.
But, that all said, I really enjoyed the episode.
My predictions after these first two episodes:
Jon will die, again, during or just after the great battle but Dany is pregnant with their child
Jamie will survive but with a grievous wound that will not allow him to live long but insists on joining the army as it moves south against his sister. Brienne cares for him until his death.
Bran will indeed be the key to killing the Night King (love the idea of him warging into the ice dragon!), surviving but being less human than he is now and will retreat north? to seek refuge away from humanity
Cersei, seeing Dany approaching with her one remaining dragon and seeing her people flee her side to join with Dany, burns the Red Keep with wildfire as soon as Dany's army gets inside the city walls
Bronn kills the remaining dragon but that doesn't stop Kings Landing from being overrun/taken back by the Targareon forces
Tyrion, handed the crossbow by Bronn, kills his sister in mercy to keep her from dying in the fire or to finish her off as she lays dying of burns. He tells Jamie what he did and why before Jamie dies from his wounds
Dany, finding the Iron Throne turned to slag by the fire, returns north to Winterfell to rule from there and raise Jon's child. Sansa is keeping a close eye on her as the madness that took her grandfather seems to be coming for her. Arya, pregnant with Robert Baratheon's grandchild, is Dany's hand. The wheel is set for another round of fights for the Seven Kingdoms with the heirs to the Targareon, Baratheon, and Starks (through Sansa) still around.
Lol, I know I said I was trying to just appreciate this season for what it is... but it’s undeniable the battle strategy in episode 3 sucked. Mr. Kris was especially irritated by it. And yeah, pretty much agree with this article.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/4/30/18522955/game-of-thrones-season-8-battle-winterfell-military?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_content=voxdotcom&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
Lol, I know I said I was trying to just appreciate this season for what it is... but it’s undeniable the battle strategy in episode 3 sucked. Mr. Kris was especially irritated by it. And yeah, pretty much agree with this article.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/4/30/18522955/game-of-thrones-season-8-battle-winterfell-military?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_content=voxdotcom&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
The dead were rushing the walls and one of the main characters shouted out, from the ground inside the castle, "Man the walls!" and I was like, "...What? They aren't manned already?"
Pretty much how I felt (and I am okay with characters feeling useless in the face of Death) - would've been interesting to have been hooked up to a blood pressure device to note the changes from normal. It was intense throughout. I always thought it was cool when they did that for poker and see someone at like 170 after an action just sitting there looking calm. As soon as I saw Carice's name in the credits my heart started pounding. If I see Michiel Huisman's name (which I don't expect to but would be a twist) in the next ep's opening credits the effect will be similar! Tobias Menzies is set to appear apparently at some point but that doesn't have the same gravitas IMO.So the North is almost completely depopulated now, right? They were nearly killed to a man in the Battle of the Bastards, now nearly killed to a man in Winterfell.
Yep everyone is dead except the main characters who can’t die no matter how much they try.
I feel a bit torn about the episode. I was definitely on the edge of my seat for the whole 90 mins, as as a stand-alone piece it was epic and great entertainment.
But, on the other hand, as a long time reader/ viewer I am left a little underwhelmed. This was the Great War, the climax of the whole shebang, and most of the main characters were impotent.
Jon useless, Sam useless (true to character for a battle, but hoped he’d use his smarts some way), Dany useless (maybe slightly less than Jon), Tyrion useless, Sansa useless, Davos useless..... and what was Bram even doing the whole show.
But maybe that was the whole point. In the face of the hordes of the undead there was nothing anyone could do, except Arya.
Like many others, I would have loved to have seen some of the fan theories as being correct.
I wanted to be more shocked eg: little Sam killed and turned, attacking Sam.. or A blue eyed Grey worm attacking Missendai. And I would have liked to have seen a least one of the white walkers killed so that there would have been a whole section of the army of the dead turn to dust. And I would have like more main characters to have been killed.
But, that all said, I really enjoyed the episode.
but it’s undeniable the battle strategy in episode 3 sucked
Glad some of the tinfoil can be put to rest as well. In our betting pool 11 of the 32 thought Bran was the Night King.
My predictions after these first two episodes:
Jon will die, again, during or just after the great battle but Dany is pregnant with their child
Jamie will survive but with a grievous wound that will not allow him to live long but insists on joining the army as it moves south against his sister. Brienne cares for him until his death.
Bran will indeed be the key to killing the Night King (love the idea of him warging into the ice dragon!), surviving but being less human than he is now and will retreat north? to seek refuge away from humanity
Cersei, seeing Dany approaching with her one remaining dragon and seeing her people flee her side to join with Dany, burns the Red Keep with wildfire as soon as Dany's army gets inside the city walls
Bronn kills the remaining dragon but that doesn't stop Kings Landing from being overrun/taken back by the Targareon forces
Tyrion, handed the crossbow by Bronn, kills his sister in mercy to keep her from dying in the fire or to finish her off as she lays dying of burns. He tells Jamie what he did and why before Jamie dies from his wounds
Dany, finding the Iron Throne turned to slag by the fire, returns north to Winterfell to rule from there and raise Jon's child. Sansa is keeping a close eye on her as the madness that took her grandfather seems to be coming for her. Arya, pregnant with Robert Baratheon's grandchild, is Dany's hand. The wheel is set for another round of fights for the Seven Kingdoms with the heirs to the Targareon, Baratheon, and Starks (through Sansa) still around.
Halfway through the final season, I am now even more obsessed with a theory like this! I love how you think, because "resetting the chess board for another cycle of power plays and violence" would be the perfect ending, IMO. Not sure we'll get it, but I would love it.
Lol, I know I said I was trying to just appreciate this season for what it is... but it’s undeniable the battle strategy in episode 3 sucked. Mr. Kris was especially irritated by it. And yeah, pretty much agree with this article.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/4/30/18522955/game-of-thrones-season-8-battle-winterfell-military?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_content=voxdotcom&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
The dead were rushing the walls and one of the main characters shouted out, from the ground inside the castle, "Man the walls!" and I was like, "...What? They aren't manned already?"
Exactly. That was effing ridiculous.
It's very tough for me to be overly critical. It's a miracle that we are getting something like this on television at all. Sure, the show runners could have made some different choices (less shaky cam, more lighting)...but considering the constraints they are working under - limited episodes to work with, and a lazy author who is providing the source material - I found it fairly incredible overall.I'm sorry you find that 70 year old who is a multiple Hugo, Nebula award winner for things besides strictly dealing with the world of Planetos, who takes an active role in local art, attends conventions, maintains a blog, and generally does whatever he wants - to be lazy on a forum that generally celebrates doing whatever you want when FI.
To invoke Neil Gaiman, George Martin is not your bitch. Even if George Martin call himself lazy (no idea how he identifies with his position on the industriousness continuum), I don't see the connection to the enjoyment of last night's episode or how this season is wrapping. It seems like an unnecessary ad hominem.
At this point, not only do I think that Arya is going to kill Cercei, I now think she will end up on the throne. I think the northern cheer for her and her statement that she was never going to be a lady are foreshadowing of this - not a lady, but that doesn't mean not a queen.
Cercei's prophesy about a younger one coming to knock her off her throne is likely to be filled by Arya - Dany (and to some extent Sansa) were both red herrings for Cercei to focus on.
After last week my expectations are 0. Because of that yesterday's episode wasn't so bad. Westeros must have some bad-ass engineers working on those scorpions to make them perfectly accurate while mounted on rocking ships without kickback after each shot. Cercei showed her complete lack of compassion and yet didn't simply end the war when the majority of her enemies were in scorpion-range in front of the city gates. I think if they had made season 8 the Long Night and season 9 the war for the Iron Throne they wouldn't have made as many silly mistakes rushing the story to the end. Very unfortunate.
Well, it would have been pretty anti-climatic to have Dany and company waltz up with an overwhelming advantage.1) They said during the episode it was for propaganda purposes to show that they at least gave Cersei a chance at peace (again). The 50 Unsullied I figured were there for protection of Varys, Daeny, and Tyrion in case it was an ambush, not to intimidate. In fact, I figure the lack of soldier presence was chosen specifically not to intimidate but to show that the negotiation attempt was the focus.
I have to say I didn't understand a few things...
1) What did Dany and Tyrion think their little display at the end was going to accomplish? Marching up with like 50 Unsullied ain't going to intimidate anyone. Tyrion's speech about Cersei's child was pretty lame. He has lost sooooo much character momentum from a few seasons ago. His decision-making has been garbage lately.
2) Why didn't Cersei order her troops to kill Tyrion?? She freakin' sent an assassin after him already so she obviously really wants him dead! He was RIGHT there. It would have further weakened Dany at NO cost to Cersei. She looked weak in front of her troops sparing him.
3) Where the hell did Euron's ships come from? I would think if you're flying up on a dragon that you could see for tens of miles in all directions! She just happens to come around a bend and OOPs there are a buttload of ships, with magnificent aim on choppy seas, shooting giant arrows right into a flying dragon. They are like the anti-Stormtroopers. So accurate!
4) And was the big drunken orgy really the best idea up North? I guess you can't stop those things from happening, but geez how did they clean up all the blood and guts which would have been allllll over the place so quickly so they could party?
I give Euron the MVP. The dude delivered. I don't care for him as a character, but he delivered. But I only give the episode 7/10 for all of the questionable (to me) writing decisions above.
I read Jamie's brusqueness with Brienne more as a bit of self-hatred and maybe his feelings about her are stronger than he wants them to be... but he feels he doesn't "get" to pursue more than sex with her because of his bond with Cersei. He doesn't want to be gentler with Brienne because it'll be easier for her to get over him if he gives her more reason to see him as an asshole.Agreed 100%. I was reminded a bit of "that phone call" between Walter White and Skyler towards the end of Breaking Bad. Not quite the same intentions but a similar vibe.
I read Jamie's brusqueness with Brienne more as a bit of self-hatred and maybe his feelings about her are stronger than he wants them to be... but he feels he doesn't "get" to pursue more than sex with her because of his bond with Cersei. He doesn't want to be gentler with Brienne because it'll be easier for her to get over him if he gives her more reason to see him as an asshole.Hard to argue that, just wasn't my fave part to watch.
After last week my expectations are 0. Because of that yesterday's episode wasn't so bad. Westeros must have some bad-ass engineers working on those scorpions to make them perfectly accurate while mounted on rocking ships without kickback after each shot. Cercei showed her complete lack of compassion and yet didn't simply end the war when the majority of her enemies were in scorpion-range in front of the city gates. I think if they had made season 8 the Long Night and season 9 the war for the Iron Throne they wouldn't have made as many silly mistakes rushing the story to the end. Very unfortunate.
Yeah..I mean I was questioning why Cersei didn't just kill Tyrion, but yeah, why didn't she just mow ALL of them down? They had like 50 troops out in the open with no visible means of escape. It's not like Cersei cares about diplomacy or anything. Just shoot them!!! And why kill Missandei when she is the perfect hostage?? Dany's BFF! Keeping her as a hostage would make a lot more tactical sense than killing her, that is assuming you aren't going to freakin' kill Dany when you have the chance and just put an end to it all.
Tyrion's apparent shift into stupidity is leading to a reveal, or just a casualty of a plot-driven decision to de-emphasize his character development.
After last week my expectations are 0. Because of that yesterday's episode wasn't so bad. Westeros must have some bad-ass engineers working on those scorpions to make them perfectly accurate while mounted on rocking ships without kickback after each shot. Cercei showed her complete lack of compassion and yet didn't simply end the war when the majority of her enemies were in scorpion-range in front of the city gates. I think if they had made season 8 the Long Night and season 9 the war for the Iron Throne they wouldn't have made as many silly mistakes rushing the story to the end. Very unfortunate.
Yeah..I mean I was questioning why Cersei didn't just kill Tyrion, but yeah, why didn't she just mow ALL of them down? They had like 50 troops out in the open with no visible means of escape. It's not like Cersei cares about diplomacy or anything. Just shoot them!!! And why kill Missandei when she is the perfect hostage?? Dany's BFF! Keeping her as a hostage would make a lot more tactical sense than killing her, that is assuming you aren't going to freakin' kill Dany when you have the chance and just put an end to it all.
I think the missing factor for this option is that Drogon can be seen just chilling in the background outside the range of the ballistas. If they turn and unload on the ground troops the Unsullied could turtle up around Dany (who you have to kill to make this successful) and you risk pissing off the dragon and he can fry your entire siege team on the wall before they could reload.
Cersei reveals that she is Gendry's mom.!!?? That would be quite the twist!
!!?? That would be quite the twist!
So it was a legitimate child that Cersei bore but hid away? Are you positing Jamie was jealous and that she faked a late-term miscarriage to Robert? I feel like that would've been a part of what Maggy told her unless you think the witch was wrong.
"Third, Cersei asked if she and the king would have children. Maggy cryptically replied that the king would have 20 children, but Cersei would have only three. Cersei didn't think that made sense (not realizing that a king can have bastard children), but Maggy continued to say of her three children that gold would be their crowns, and gold their burial shrouds, implying that all of Cersei's children would predecease her."
Cersei reveals that she is Gendry's mom.!!?? That would be quite the twist!
So it was a legitimate child that Cersei bore but hid away? Are you positing Jamie was jealous and that she faked a late-term miscarriage to Robert? I feel like that would've been a part of what Maggy told her unless you think the witch was wrong.
"Third, Cersei asked if she and the king would have children. Maggy cryptically replied that the king would have 20 children, but Cersei would have only three. Cersei didn't think that made sense (not realizing that a king can have bastard children), but Maggy continued to say of her three children that gold would be their crowns, and gold their burial shrouds, implying that all of Cersei's children would predecease her."
Cersei reveals that she is Gendry's mom.!!?? That would be quite the twist!
So it was a legitimate child that Cersei bore but hid away? Are you positing Jamie was jealous and that she faked a late-term miscarriage to Robert? I feel like that would've been a part of what Maggy told her unless you think the witch was wrong.
"Third, Cersei asked if she and the king would have children. Maggy cryptically replied that the king would have 20 children, but Cersei would have only three. Cersei didn't think that made sense (not realizing that a king can have bastard children), but Maggy continued to say of her three children that gold would be their crowns, and gold their burial shrouds, implying that all of Cersei's children would predecease her."
Well, these are legitimate points. I guess I have to assume that Maggy's prophecy discusses Cersei's illegitimate children vs Robert's own bastards, thereby contrasting the children that the king and queen have separately. Gendry isn't in the prophecy because he's the one child they have together!
Not sure about the Jamie part, just that for that some reason, Cersei hid Gendry. Gendry's always said his mother was blond and would sing to him. Maybe in an attempt to avoid the prophecy, Cersei hid the first baby, the one baby she originally had with Robert, and told Robert she had a miscarriage. But after the marriage soured, she consummated her love/lust with Jamie and had the three children we know of, giving them the advantages she could by raising them for the throne.
Perhaps at first she visited the baby in a tavern in disguise, which fits the story Gendry gave, but stopped as the chance of discovery rose? Or stopped when her other children were born? No idea if any of this is "true" in either the show or RR Martin's conception, just that I saw Gendry's story onscreen.
Cersei reveals that she is Gendry's mom.!!?? That would be quite the twist!
So it was a legitimate child that Cersei bore but hid away? Are you positing Jamie was jealous and that she faked a late-term miscarriage to Robert? I feel like that would've been a part of what Maggy told her unless you think the witch was wrong.
"Third, Cersei asked if she and the king would have children. Maggy cryptically replied that the king would have 20 children, but Cersei would have only three. Cersei didn't think that made sense (not realizing that a king can have bastard children), but Maggy continued to say of her three children that gold would be their crowns, and gold their burial shrouds, implying that all of Cersei's children would predecease her."
Well, these are legitimate points. I guess I have to assume that Maggy's prophecy discusses Cersei's illegitimate children vs Robert's own bastards, thereby contrasting the children that the king and queen have separately. Gendry isn't in the prophecy because he's the one child they have together!
Not sure about the Jamie part, just that for that some reason, Cersei hid Gendry. Gendry's always said his mother was blond and would sing to him. Maybe in an attempt to avoid the prophecy, Cersei hid the first baby, the one baby she originally had with Robert, and told Robert she had a miscarriage. But after the marriage soured, she consummated her love/lust with Jamie and had the three children we know of, giving them the advantages she could by raising them for the throne.
Perhaps at first she visited the baby in a tavern in disguise, which fits the story Gendry gave, but stopped as the chance of discovery rose? Or stopped when her other children were born? No idea if any of this is "true" in either the show or RR Martin's conception, just that I saw Gendry's story onscreen.
I think that the scene about Gendry’s mom being blond was to prove the truth of Ned’s investigation into the hair colour of Robert’s progeny. All Baratheon spawn have dark hair, even when mated with blond women.
Cersei’s three children - gold will be their crown- they will all be blond and not Robert’s.
What is the point of Bran at this time if he isn't being used for military strategy? I don't know the parameters of his gift, but can't he "see" all of the Lannister military prep and then advise everyone accordingly, i.e., watch out for ships with scorpions around Dragonstone? Wouldn't the same thing that allowed him to go back and see Rhaegar's wedding allow him to see the battle prep? I hope they don't use him for some deus ex machina time traveling gimmick(s).The treatment seems to be he uses the past and can relay that information but something about the future he seems to let it come to pass. Maybe it's part of the unspoken 3ER code or something. This is part of why it was weird in Episode 3 with him seemingly not doing anything but he knew where he had to be and what his sister was going to do, so he had to let it unfold.
I have no idea what will happen in KL. I wouldn't be shocked if Arya and the Hound take out Cersei and the Mountain and I wouldn't be shocked if they were killed. Wasn't the Dornish army waiting for Yara to pick them up when Yara was ambushed by Euron? It seems odd that they would sit this one out after everything that happened with Elaria and the Sand Snakes and the history of the Lannisters, the Mountain and the Martells.
Brynden Rivers/BloodravenYeah, it's hard not to be at least somewhat of a book wanker when all they had to do was add a fake blotch to the 3ER's cheek. That's what, 20 min of makeup for a character we saw a handful of times? I just don't see the downside there of tipping the cap to book fans (without really altering anything for the show-only people) by acknowledging Show!3ER really is a super interesting Targaryen with even more backstory than the other famous old Targaryen of the Night's Watch that also had a brother who was king. Then again, books will always be richer so I just have to accept that and technically the show never said he wasn't Bloodraven.
I would argue it was the biggest mistake in television history.
QuoteI would argue it was the biggest mistake in television history.
Have it agree. Really feels like the show runners knew they didn’t have a solid ending and decided to get things over with as fast as possible so they could scuttle off to direct Star Wars spin-offs.
I don’t know that a cohesive conclusion to a story with 12 protagonists is even possible but, judging by the reactions to the last 2 episodes, the finale will be DOA.
I am also holding out hope that GRRM has finished, or is close to finishing the story and is just keeping it under wraps. He saw what hacks D&D are and has been distancing himself from the show for several seasons. D&D have more than enough rope, and they are hanging themselves. My hope is after it's all said and done GRRM will release the books and say something to the effect that he disowns everything after season 4 and is in no way associated with those jokers who ruined his story, and we end up with a proper ending.
A man can dream...
I am also holding out hope that GRRM has finished, or is close to finishing the story and is just keeping it under wraps. He saw what hacks D&D are and has been distancing himself from the show for several seasons. D&D have more than enough rope, and they are hanging themselves. My hope is after it's all said and done GRRM will release the books and say something to the effect that he disowns everything after season 4 and is in no way associated with those jokers who ruined his story, and we end up with a proper ending.
A man can dream...
https://www.theonion.com/george-r-r-martin-promises-fans-the-winds-of-winter-1826115223 (https://www.theonion.com/george-r-r-martin-promises-fans-the-winds-of-winter-1826115223)
I personally have no idea how is going to end, and I am prepared to about any ending, including:
"And that’s why, even today, they’re known as Branny Smith apples. The End." - (Stole this one from another forum.)
Well, that was terrible.
Well, that was terrible.
I guess the plan is to leave us with nothing.
Well, that was terrible.
I guess the plan is to leave us with nothing.
By nothing, do you mean nothing in terms of quality of the show? That's fair, though I'm not as irritated as many people seem to be, given that I thought the author's plotting started going off the rails in book 4, and to pretty much complete shit in book 5. So the show has sometimes been an improvement.
Or did you mean in terms of nothing and no one happy and prosperous at the end? I feel like it was inevitable from book 3 that this series was not going to end well for any of the main characters. It's just slow-mo emotional torture to get invested in any of them (which, of course, I am).
I will give the show credit for surprising me: the only character I ever was absolutely sure would live through the series was Arya, and on my short list of 'very likely to live', Varys was at the head of the line. Oops. Bronn is my other one, so we'll see how that comes out...
One thing I am wondering now, though...is there a chance Tyrion kills Dany? Just because his brother was the one who killed the last mad Targaryen, from a similar position of trust. Probably Arya or Jon, though.
MVP: Drogan. I don't understand how he got so overpowered though? Does his fire have no limits? He just keep blowing and blowing and blowing...it would have been more realistic to make him need to rest or at least "recharge" to add a little tension.
Jaime was treated like crap. The dude deserved to go out swinging, but really after the writers had him go back to Cersei after...SHE HIRED A MERCENARY TO KILL HIM, I forced myself to distance myself from one of my favorite characters.
Same with Cersei. What a totally anti-climactic way for her to go out. Yes, it was pitiful, and maybe the point was to humble her by making her go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but still after 8 seasons with her as the most consistent big bad, it was very disappointing for me.
MVP: Drogan. I don't understand how he got so overpowered though? Does his fire have no limits? He just keep blowing and blowing and blowing...it would have been more realistic to make him need to rest or at least "recharge" to add a little tension.
Jaime was treated like crap. The dude deserved to go out swinging, but really after the writers had him go back to Cersei after...SHE HIRED A MERCENARY TO KILL HIM, I forced myself to distance myself from one of my favorite characters.
Same with Cersei. What a totally anti-climactic way for her to go out. Yes, it was pitiful, and maybe the point was to humble her by making her go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but still after 8 seasons with her as the most consistent big bad, it was very disappointing for me.
Yeah, Drogan and his unlimited firebreath....not buying it.
Bran said that Jamie still had a part to play. That wasn't much of a part.
I liked the Cersei death scene. Not every character can get their glorious moment of revenge and not ever villain gets their comeuppance.
Two seasons (one for the Night King, one for the war for the Iron Throne) or even one longer one would have let them play out those plotlines in enough detail to have them make sense.
6/10, and that's mostly just because the brutality of the scenes made me cringe a few times, which means they accomplished something. There was also some really gorgeous scenes with the falling ash. Winter is coming = ash, not snow? Arya was framed in some very powerful visuals.
MVP: Drogan. I don't understand how he got so overpowered though? Does his fire have no limits? He just keep blowing and blowing and blowing...it would have been more realistic to make him need to rest or at least "recharge" to add a little tension.
Jaime was treated like crap. The dude deserved to go out swinging, but really after the writers had him go back to Cersei after...SHE HIRED A MERCENARY TO KILL HIM, I forced myself to distance myself from one of my favorite characters.
Same with Cersei. What a totally anti-climactic way for her to go out. Yes, it was pitiful, and maybe the point was to humble her by making her go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but still after 8 seasons with her as the most consistent big bad, it was very disappointing for me.
I guess I'm not too surprised by Dany though. She has lost everything, and has been outsmarted at every turn, due to her own stupidity or the stupidity of her advisers. She saw she had the clear advantage and she made sure there was no way she was being deceived this time. It doesn't justify it, but she was tired of getting jerked around.
I guess I have no idea how the story is going to wrap up with the Starks winning? (so maybe they won't!) Even the Northern armies were caught up in the brutality and Jon couldn't stop them. It seems they responded favorably to Dany's no-mercy approach, and so how does Jon pull them away from the Dothraki and Unsullied in a single episode? Not to mention, what happens to Drogan if Dany dies? If he goes nuts, no one can stop him. Is that possibly more dangerous than Dany guiding him?
Also:
The first thing I said to Mr. Kris when the credits started rolling after last night's episode was:
"Well, I bet all those people who named their kids Khaleesi are regretting that decision right about now."
Also:
The first thing I said to Mr. Kris when the credits started rolling after last night's episode was:
"Well, I bet all those people who named their kids Khaleesi are regretting that decision right about now."
Ha! I know, right? She's a great character, but how did people NOT see this character arc as a very feasible possibility?
Re: Drogon...I also started wondering last night about how to control him without Dany. It never occurred to me to wonder before, but it should have.
I'm still wondering if either Dany or Arya is pregnant.
Prediction: Dany tries to dracyrys on Jon but Drogan refuses.
Prediction: Jon will quit civilization and retreat to the north, past the wall. He's seen enough.
...They are going to go full Dexter on us. My prediction is that Jon Snow goes north of the wall to be a lumberjack and that's how it ends (not really, but I'm pretty sure that would be more satisfying that whatever garbage they cooked up)....
He's all about doing the right thing even if it's hard
Who is the potential Lannister baby? Jamie/Brienne?
That sounds like a Gendry + Arya throne. Seems unlikely though.
Prediction: Dany tries to dracyrys on Jon but Drogan refuses.
Prediction: Jon will quit civilization and retreat to the north, past the wall. He's seen enough.
But seriously, no way Jon can just fuck off after this. He's all about doing the right thing even if it's hard. Dany is no longer his queen, and he can't stand by while she goes mad so he's probably going to kill her, and maybe begrudgingly sit on the iron throne himself even though he doesn't want it. Or maybe my expectations will be subverted with more terrible writing that doesn't make any sense.
QuoteHe's all about doing the right thing even if it's hard
You say that as if 'what the character would actually do' is still driving events. This last 2 seasons have been nothing but scripted movements to get characters in place for climatic moneyshots previously established personalities be damned.
Yes, which is why
After all that, Jon's situation of going all too quickly from "a few misgivings" to "conflicted loyalties, but we're still mostly the good guys" to "oh shit, we're f-ing up hugely and yet my best option is to join the war crimes and start running people through with my sword" became horrifyingly realistic IMHO.
bacchi, I like your prediction about Dany, Drogon, and Jon: that would be quite a moment!
I wonder if Bran could warg into Drogon, and kill Dany that way?
I just read this Twitter thread, which as a writer makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I thought you all might enjoy reading it. (Warning: it’s long. But good.)
https://cheezburger.com/8363269/man-gives-insightful-reasoning-why-season-8-of-game-of-thrones-feels-different-without-spoilers
I just read this Twitter thread, which as a writer makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I thought you all might enjoy reading it. (Warning: it’s long. But good.)
https://cheezburger.com/8363269/man-gives-insightful-reasoning-why-season-8-of-game-of-thrones-feels-different-without-spoilers
Pretty much. It's much easier to build satisfying characters in the 'building the world out' part of story telling, b/c your plot is still flexible and your cast and world aren't as big. But after thousands of pages and tons of additional characters and events, you then face the challenge of making all those parts work for plot purposes, so the actual story can make sense. And that means 'building back down/in' to a degree. By definition, as you write toward a conclusion of plot, the options of action and decision for each character become limited by plot logistics in a way that can really clash with their previous character development.
It is really obvious that with Jamie, for example, his main character arc (of some self actualization and identity separation from Cersei) came into conflict with the thematic and plot needs of the story. Jamie was a villain (later an anti-hero) in the series, who was always going to die. He HAD to. And he had to die in association with Cersei (somehow). But Martin developed his character in such a way that we could root for him to do heroic things, and sometimes he DID heroic things, and it makes sense he should die doing something at least sort of self-sacrificial. So he left Cersei to go fight in the north, which makes sense for plot and character. To be consistent with his character arc, he should have died there after bonding in some way with Brienne (not necessarily sleeping with her). Thematically, perhaps he should have died defending Bran. But b/c thematically he has to be 'punished' and plot-wise he has to die in association with Cersei, he then had to travel BACK to her, which was awkward to plot. And once he got there, the show runners couldn't think of anything for him to do except die with her (I think they should have had him mercy-kill her), AND they had a secondary antagonist hanging around that needed some kind of 'closure', so they made the two of them fight for no particular reason.
I'm pretty sure this is the problem Martin faces writing the books as well, which is why I am doubtful he'll finish them. And even if he does, he's unlikely to be able to fix the things that are irritating the show viewers. In a way, Martin's skill at characterization and character-building have bitten him in the ass and have overwhelmed his ability to force the characters to do what the plot probably requires. I'm glad I'm not a writer.
I just read this Twitter thread, which as a writer makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I thought you all might enjoy reading it. (Warning: it’s long. But good.)
https://cheezburger.com/8363269/man-gives-insightful-reasoning-why-season-8-of-game-of-thrones-feels-different-without-spoilers
Pretty much. It's much easier to build satisfying characters in the 'building the world out' part of story telling, b/c your plot is still flexible and your cast and world aren't as big. But after thousands of pages and tons of additional characters and events, you then face the challenge of making all those parts work for plot purposes, so the actual story can make sense. And that means 'building back down/in' to a degree. By definition, as you write toward a conclusion of plot, the options of action and decision for each character become limited by plot logistics in a way that can really clash with their previous character development.
It is really obvious that with Jamie, for example, his main character arc (of some self actualization and identity separation from Cersei) came into conflict with the thematic and plot needs of the story. Jamie was a villain (later an anti-hero) in the series, who was always going to die. He HAD to. And he had to die in association with Cersei (somehow). But Martin developed his character in such a way that we could root for him to do heroic things, and sometimes he DID heroic things, and it makes sense he should die doing something at least sort of self-sacrificial. So he left Cersei to go fight in the north, which makes sense for plot and character. To be consistent with his character arc, he should have died there after bonding in some way with Brienne (not necessarily sleeping with her). Thematically, perhaps he should have died defending Bran. But b/c thematically he has to be 'punished' and plot-wise he has to die in association with Cersei, he then had to travel BACK to her, which was awkward to plot. And once he got there, the show runners couldn't think of anything for him to do except die with her (I think they should have had him mercy-kill her), AND they had a secondary antagonist hanging around that needed some kind of 'closure', so they made the two of them fight for no particular reason.
I'm pretty sure this is the problem Martin faces writing the books as well, which is why I am doubtful he'll finish them. And even if he does, he's unlikely to be able to fix the things that are irritating the show viewers. In a way, Martin's skill at characterization and character-building have bitten him in the ass and have overwhelmed his ability to force the characters to do what the plot probably requires. I'm glad I'm not a writer.
Agreed. I, too, do not think he will finish them.
And also, can I just say how irritating I find the end of the Jamie/Brienne arc? I mean, I'm okay that they slept together. But what I HATE is the implication (or at least the conclusion everyone seems to have come to) that Brienne is in love with him? Why does her character have to eventually be reduced to a lovesick, rejected lonelyheart? There were ways to play that which would have her extremely distraught because she knows he's riding to his death, that don't reduce her to a sad girl who thought the guy who danced with her at homecoming was asking her to go steady. UGH.
Who is the potential Lannister baby? Jamie/Brienne?
The Game is loosely based on the War of the Roses between the Yorks and the Lancasters.
- The main Lancaster branch became extinct during the War.
- Henry of Tudor married Elizabeth of York.
- The Tudors ruled peacefully for the next 120 years.
That sounds like a Gendry + Arya throne. Seems unlikely though.
I just read this Twitter thread, which as a writer makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I thought you all might enjoy reading it. (Warning: it’s long. But good.)
https://cheezburger.com/8363269/man-gives-insightful-reasoning-why-season-8-of-game-of-thrones-feels-different-without-spoilers
My other question, which maybe book people can answer, is how does the Winter affect Westeros as a whole? Clearly the North is deeply impacted and needs to plan for it, but are the areas further south affected? Nobody seems to be talking about it at the moment other than Sansa.
Wasn't it snowing when Jaime left Kings Landing at end of Season 7? I'm pretty sure it was.
And at this point, I don't see how Dany can be unseated. It would be stupid. She has armies loyal to her, and her only, and she has a dragon that wrecked the biggest/best fighting force left on the entire continent. Even if (and especially if!) she is killed, all Hell should break lose! How do you end a series with all Hell breaking lose? (maybe you can?)
I mean, the Dothraki and UnSullied have nowhere to go, they can't get home. What are they going to do if Dany dies, just peacefully and seamlessly blend in with the Westeros population? All they know is war and killing. If Dany dies, they kill everyone (who is left).
And I've read some theories that Drogan might "defect" to Jon, but...where was the evidence of this in Episode 5? Drogan didn't exactly show any hesitation about roasting children. Why would he "gain a conscience" and flip sides all of a sudden?
Wasn't it snowing when Jaime left Kings Landing at end of Season 7? I'm pretty sure it was.
And at this point, I don't see how Dany can be unseated. It would be stupid. She has armies loyal to her, and her only, and she has a dragon that wrecked the biggest/best fighting force left on the entire continent. Even if (and especially if!) she is killed, all Hell should break lose! How do you end a series with all Hell breaking lose? (maybe you can?)
I mean, the Dothraki and UnSullied have nowhere to go, they can't get home. What are they going to do if Dany dies, just peacefully and seamlessly blend in with the Westeros population? All they know is war and killing. If Dany dies, they kill everyone (who is left).
And I've read some theories that Drogan might "defect" to Jon, but...where was the evidence of this in Episode 5? Drogan didn't exactly show any hesitation about roasting children. Why would he "gain a conscience" and flip sides all of a sudden?
. . .
I just don't know. This show, man...
I wonder if Bran could warg into Drogon, and kill Dany that way?
I've lost the belief he's going to do anything like that. He's been useless as tits on a boar for a while now. His warging has been so vastly underused lately at times it should have been obvious to use it --a lot like Arya's faces -- that those powers may as well not even exist anymore.
Feeling a bit surly. Cheered by this, would have been cooler:
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538
Jon when he finds out they blew a $90M budget this season, but didn't have enough left for him to pet his wolf good bye:
Jon might going back north above the wall to live with his direwolf Ghost after all this is over, maybe find another Ygritte.
6/10. I am disappointed but it's not like I'm going to petition for a new 8th season. We have real life dragons to deal with.
MVP: Ummm...I guess Tyrion? He pushed Jon to act, and he pushed the council to act. Killing Dany and picking a new ruler were two things that had to happen, and he forced the issue on both. Plus, he's the hand again (for what, the third time?)
I'll say this, casting/acting we good to the bitter end. No complaints there. I would anticipate most of the cast are already in new projects. Peter Dinklage could carry all sorts of shows. The guy who plays Davos is amazing. And would I follow Arya in a spin-off? Yeah I would, assuming new writers are involved.
Biggest issues I had:
1) So...is Drogan like human-level intelligent? Are we to infer that he understood why Jon killed Dany, and that he further made the mental leap that Jon was not really "responsible" for Dany's death, but rather Dany's lust for the iron throne had caused her downfall? I mean...is that what we saw? I knew they had to "write Drogan off" (see my comments from last week), but having him flying off after having such a philosophical moment was sort of confusing and weak to me.
2) When did the Dothraki get so...civilized? Two weeks or so after their Queen has been murdered, they are chumming around on the docks like "This ain't no thing". I would have expected plundering, rape, etc., (i.e. that they would have been a continuing problem in Westeros, especially as they appear leaderless)
3) So the unSullied are going to...what? Go to some island and inhabit it? I guess some islands might welcome thousands of former slaves turned murderous butchers (who can't procreate) but the proposition wouldn't seem so appealing to me.
4) BRAN? "Who has had a better story?" Come on Tyron, Arya has had a better story! Sansa has had a better story! Hell, Brienne and Davos had better stories! Freakin' Podric had a better story.
Things I liked: Sansa claiming the North, Arya doing her own thing, and Tyrion surrounding himself the best surviving characters. Just seeing Brienne, Sam, and Davos at the table tells the viewer that there is going to be some wise stewardship for years to come. And Bronn will keep it interesting.
Overall, I have many thoughts, but definitely look forward to (hopefully) reading how it all ends from GRRM himself.Yes! I am very excited to read the next novel. No idea if the 7th will ever be released by him but generally more is better and the 6th book would be better than nothing.
that are thematically satisfying
Well, that was terrible.
I guess the plan is to leave us with nothing.
By nothing, do you mean nothing in terms of quality of the show? That's fair, though I'm not as irritated as many people seem to be, given that I thought the author's plotting started going off the rails in book 4, and to pretty much complete shit in book 5. So the show has sometimes been an improvement.
Or did you mean in terms of nothing and no one happy and prosperous at the end? I feel like it was inevitable from book 3 that this series was not going to end well for any of the main characters. It's just slow-mo emotional torture to get invested in any of them (which, of course, I am).
I will give the show credit for surprising me: the only character I ever was absolutely sure would live through the series was Arya, and on my short list of 'very likely to live', Varys was at the head of the line. Oops. Bronn is my other one, so we'll see how that comes out...
What made last night so frustrating was knowing in the back of your mind that the writers just completely botched this on two fronts:
(1) Sorry for repeating this, but the last two seasons should have been ten episodes, no questions asked.
(2) What piled onto this error was that the writers chose cinematic drama (battles and CGI) over storytelling. Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards were all less than half an episode, and those are some of the highest ranked episodes of all time. Yet in Season 8, we spent two entire episodes in a six episode season on battles. It just seemed so incredibly unnecessary when there was so many loose ends to tie up.
In Season 7, imagine if we had a couple more episodes to set up the Loot Train Battle -- more accurate movements, more ability to lay out character's motives, perhaps more groundwork for Dany eventually going mad. And then imagine if we had a couple more episodes for the Beyond the Wall action, which would have given more time to set everything up.
In Season 8, imagine if we had two or three episodes leading up to Dany going mad; and then a couple episodes with Dany, John, Tyrian, etc. wrestling with the destruction and future plans, and then a couple episodes to select a new king.
The battles were certainly entertaining, but the greatest scene in Season 8 was Jon and Tyrian talking about what to do moving forward. THAT is Game of Thrones -- two people talking in a room about their actions that will have consequences far beyond their own footprint. GoT abandoned those scenes for the sake of battle porn.
Seasons 1-6, and especially seasons 3 and 4, are arguably the greatest TV productions in history. They built their own high standards, and then they fell way short of them.
Quotethat are thematically satisfying
Honest question, what theme is being satisfied in this finale?
The show HAD themes but I think they got thrown out in S6 with the characters once all the narrative pruning started.
One more for the WTF pile: None of the Southern lords reacted to talk of an army of the dead or the 3ER. Tyrion says “He became the 3ER” and they all nod along as if they’ve been watching the show with the audience from the beginning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRhObOsfL8&feature=youtu.be
Season 7 Episode 3, skip to 1:06 for the quote
Bran: I can never be lord of winterfell. I can never be lord of anything. I'm the three eyed raven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moM00oXhmes
Season 8 Episode 6, skip to 2:46:
Tyrion: If we choose you, will you wear the crown?...
Bran: Why do you think I came all this way?
WHAT. THE. FUCK? This makes no sense. He can't be lord of anything, except he can be lord of thesevensix kingdoms!?
I was not as disappointed with the first 5 episodes as many of you all here plus the rest of the internet seemed to be. But this final episode really opened my eyes to how terrible the season really was.
Don't forget to cancel your HBO Now subscription, if you subscribed the day of the season opener, you'll be billed again tomorrow for another month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRhObOsfL8&feature=youtu.be
Season 7 Episode 3, skip to 1:06 for the quote
Bran: I can never be lord of winterfell. I can never be lord of anything. I'm the three eyed raven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moM00oXhmes
Season 8 Episode 6, skip to 2:46:
Tyrion: If we choose you, will you wear the crown?...
Bran: Why do you think I came all this way?
WHAT. THE. FUCK? This makes no sense. He can't be lord of anything, except he can be lord of thesevensix kingdoms!?
I guess? I can see the logic? He can't be lord of Winterfell because he's no longer a Stark of Winterfell.
But the Three Eyed Raven can be king. ??? And it was his destiny? IDK.
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
Honestly, for me, it would have been okay if everything ended up in the exact same spot... if it hadn't been so damn rushed. Instead of a story, it started to feel like the showrunners just crossing plot items off their to-do list.
Man I'm just grateful we got some quality shots of Tyrion arranging chairs.
For those of us still digesting the finale, here's a funny idea for a GOT spin-off posted today --- https://www.reasonsmysoniscrying.com/ (https://www.reasonsmysoniscrying.com/).
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
Well, during the Battle of Winterfell, I would have liked to be able to see anything!
Actually, I didn't hate the season. I really liked the second episode, when they're all at Winterfell waiting for the army of the Night King to arrive. The Battle of Winterfell disappointed me, because I have always found their battle scenes to be incredibly compelling (even though in most movies I don't care for them), and while the battle against the Night King had spectacular moments (that scene where the Dothraki ride out with flaming swords and the all the lights just...go out), I didn't think the directors did as good a job creating a narrative throughline. I didn't even mind that the show killed off Daenarys, but the show skipped way too many steps between strong-willed ruler and genocide.
The one minor hope that didn't go anywhere was that I always thought Tyrion and Sansa would make a good pair (other than the age difference) if they went back to being married. I thought maybe they were hinting around during the scenes in the crypt, but it didn't go anywhere.
I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action.
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
This is the best observation I've read about the show.
Thanks for sharing.
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank
Should be fine as long as the Golden Company didn't have life insurance. Peter/Paul, all that.2) No resolution with the Iron Bank
I wondered about that one, don’t know the inheritance rules of Westeros, wondering if Tyrion now owns the Lannister debt and has to pay for Cersei’s army. Casterly Rock is supposedly worthless and Highgarden was given to Bronn.
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank
I wondered about that one, don’t know the inheritance rules of Westeros, wondering if Tyrion now owns the Lannister debt and has to pay for Cersei’s army. Casterly Rock is supposedly worthless and Highgarden was given to Bronn.
I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action.
Makes you realize how few people understand what the basic brightness and contrast controls on their televisions do. We were watching the episode and it was hard to see what was going on, so I paused it and fiddled with the controls for a second until it was perfectly watchable. This isn't a new invention. I remember having to do it in a particularly dark scene in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III. :P
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action.
Makes you realize how few people understand what the basic brightness and contrast controls on their televisions do. We were watching the episode and it was hard to see what was going on, so I paused it and fiddled with the controls for a second until it was perfectly watchable. This isn't a new invention. I remember having to do it in a particularly dark scene in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III. :P
If everyone has to fiddle with the brightness and contrast to make it watchable, it is too dark.
If everyone has to fiddle with the brightness and contrast to make it watchable, it is too dark.
It depends on whether or not you've ever set them to be ideal, and how much ambient lighting there is in the room you regularly watch in.
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see?
:not snark, truly curious:
Among other stuff, I was disappointed in the battle scenes. IMO, the Battle at Castle Black is the greatest battle scene ever filmed. The Battles of Winterfell and King's Landing weren't.
Don't forget "Blackwater"
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
Another example of sociological TV drama with a similarly enthusiastic fan following is David Simon’s The Wire, which followed the trajectory of a variety of actors in Baltimore, ranging from African-Americans in the impoverished and neglected inner city trying to survive, to police officers to journalists to unionized dock workers to city officials and teachers.
Don't forget "Blackwater"
Ok, I remember that one. Tyrion's POV, right? That's probably why I remember.
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
I also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
They do all sort of seem to blend together. The Battle of Castle black is when the Wildlings, realizing the White Walkers are coming, attack in order to get south of the wall. This is the battle where Ygritte dies in Jon's arms.QuoteI also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
Basically, the Lannisters ran out of money and had to borrow heavily from the Iron Bank in order to fund the on-going wars. Cersie borrowed even more heavily in order to pay for the Golden Company. It wasn't a major plot point, but it never got resolved.
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
They do all sort of seem to blend together. The Battle of Castle black is when the Wildlings, realizing the White Walkers are coming, attack in order to get south of the wall. This is the battle where Ygritte dies in Jon's arms.QuoteI also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
Basically, the Lannisters ran out of money and had to borrow heavily from the Iron Bank in order to fund the on-going wars. Cersie borrowed even more heavily in order to pay for the Golden Company. It wasn't a major plot point, but it never got resolved.
She should have borrowed enough for the elephants.
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
They do all sort of seem to blend together. The Battle of Castle black is when the Wildlings, realizing the White Walkers are coming, attack in order to get south of the wall. This is the battle where Ygritte dies in Jon's arms.QuoteI also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
Basically, the Lannisters ran out of money and had to borrow heavily from the Iron Bank in order to fund the on-going wars. Cersie borrowed even more heavily in order to pay for the Golden Company. It wasn't a major plot point, but it never got resolved.
Given how pissed most people seem about Bran being king, I'm wondering if Martin would consider changing his original idea, pretending it was the show-runners', and ending the series differently from how he's been planning it all these decades LOL.
If everyone has to fiddle with the brightness and contrast to make it watchable, it is too dark.
It depends on whether or not you've ever set them to be ideal, and how much ambient lighting there is in the room you regularly watch in.
Understood. However, in this case you had to stop the episode and fiddle with the settings to make it watchable. Everyone else also seems to agree the episode was too dark.
I humbly submit that if everyone finds a particular episode too dark, it really is too dark. Requiring viewers to adjust their TV's mid-episode is a clear production mistake. People should be enjoying the show instead of thinking "The picture sucks. How do I fix it?"
Don't cancel HBO just yet, Chernobyl is still running for another two weeks!
Seriously - if you still have HBO, give it a go. It's damn close to flawless and supremely frightening - you will not see anything better this year.
After thinking about it for a couple days, I think that one big issue with the series was that it was never quite clear which story was the heart of the narrative and the destination of this whole journey. Was Game of Thrones a family drama about the Starks, and how they survived and found their way back to each other despite everything? Was it a hero's journey for a young woman who lost everything but used her suffering as fuel to understand and fight for the little people who had no one else? Was it an apocalyptic story about magic finding its way back into a world that had stopped believing in it, with the survival of humanity at stake? Was it a twisty high-stakes political thriller about the contest for the Iron Throne and power in Westeros, with death to the losers? Was it a narrative about the disenfranchised (women, people of color, Wildlings, the physically disabled or different) finally winning power in a world previously controlled by smirky rich white guys? If you were in it for the Starks, the ending was probably satisfying, but if you thought you were there for one of those other stories, I can see how people might be pretty disappointed as the other narratives fell away. I'm sure part of it was that HBO was working with an unfinished narrative, and frankly probably one of the reasons that the series attracted so many viewers was that it offered such a big tent, but in the end they were never going to be able to end all those stories equally well.
Don't cancel HBO just yet, Chernobyl is still running for another two weeks!
Seriously - if you still have HBO, give it a go. It's damn close to flawless and supremely frightening - you will not see anything better this year.
I've been trying to find a time to watch it. The commercials were terrifying.
Don't cancel HBO just yet, Chernobyl is still running for another two weeks!
Seriously - if you still have HBO, give it a go. It's damn close to flawless and supremely frightening - you will not see anything better this year.
I've been trying to find a time to watch it. The commercials were terrifying.
It's nightmarish. Truly suffocating television, in the best possible way.
To bring it back to Game Of Thrones, it's akin to the deathly silence following the screams at the gate of Hardhome, except sustained for hours at a time. The sense of dread and horror is overwhelming.
And Alexander Siddig, of course (true Star Trek Fans would have recognized him as Siddig Al Fadil in DS9).He goes from genetically-modified superhuman to guy with gout in a wheelchair, quite the turn! I wish his character would've gotten more traction on Peaky Blinders (suppose that is still possible but doubtful). Aunt Pol was getting too dark for my taste and he was a good foil.
Don't cancel HBO just yet, Chernobyl is still running for another two weeks!
Seriously - if you still have HBO, give it a go. It's damn close to flawless and supremely frightening - you will not see anything better this year.
After thinking about it for a couple days, I think that one big issue with the series was that it was never quite clear which story was the heart of the narrative and the destination of this whole journey. Was Game of Thrones a family drama about the Starks, and how they survived and found their way back to each other despite everything? Was it a hero's journey for a young woman who lost everything but used her suffering as fuel to understand and fight for the little people who had no one else? Was it an apocalyptic story about magic finding its way back into a world that had stopped believing in it, with the survival of humanity at stake? Was it a twisty high-stakes political thriller about the contest for the Iron Throne and power in Westeros, with death to the losers? Was it a narrative about the disenfranchised (women, people of color, Wildlings, the physically disabled or different) finally winning power in a world previously controlled by smirky rich white guys? If you were in it for the Starks, the ending was probably satisfying, but if you thought you were there for one of those other stories, I can see how people might be pretty disappointed as the other narratives fell away. I'm sure part of it was that HBO was working with an unfinished narrative, and frankly probably one of the reasons that the series attracted so many viewers was that it offered such a big tent, but in the end they were never going to be able to end all those stories equally well.
See , to me that feels like a feature, not a bug. It goes back to the whole psychological vs. sociological storytelling from the article above.
I think the comparison to The Wire is apt, as it is that focus on the institutions, not individuals. Neither show is framed as being about this person, instead you are presented with the players that exist within competing institutions (in GoT, it is the Great Houses, in The Wire, it is the various city organizations) and how the people interact within those institutions.
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
They do all sort of seem to blend together. The Battle of Castle black is when the Wildlings, realizing the White Walkers are coming, attack in order to get south of the wall. This is the battle where Ygritte dies in Jon's arms.QuoteI also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
Basically, the Lannisters ran out of money and had to borrow heavily from the Iron Bank in order to fund the on-going wars. Cersie borrowed even more heavily in order to pay for the Golden Company. It wasn't a major plot point, but it never got resolved.
Jamie's capture of Highgarden netted enough gold for the Iron Bank to consider the old debt paid and to extend a brand new line of credit to Cersei to hire the Golden Company. It probably wasn't as much as the crown's previous total debts, but armies aren't cheap.
Don't cancel HBO just yet, Chernobyl is still running for another two weeks!
Seriously - if you still have HBO, give it a go. It's damn close to flawless and supremely frightening - you will not see anything better this year.
I just cancelled my "HBO Now". It replied that my service would end June 20; to continue past that, reactivate the AutoRenew feature. So at least one unsubscriber can watch Chernobyl for up four weeks.
Not saying I will, just sharing info re options. Saving Mustache money! :)
I don't even remember there being a Castle Black battle scene, which goes to show how little impression battle scenes make on me (unless that was the one where the ice dragon melted the wall? I just remember an attack and a wall-melt that was awesome, so my memory must have just skipped over the associated battle).
They do all sort of seem to blend together. The Battle of Castle black is when the Wildlings, realizing the White Walkers are coming, attack in order to get south of the wall. This is the battle where Ygritte dies in Jon's arms.QuoteI also don't remember a subplot involving the bank (which some posters have noted they wanted to see followed up), though I vaguely remember the bank being mentioned in the books occasionally. It's funny how I'm interested in banking/money stuff IRL, but apparently not in fiction at all.
Basically, the Lannisters ran out of money and had to borrow heavily from the Iron Bank in order to fund the on-going wars. Cersie borrowed even more heavily in order to pay for the Golden Company. It wasn't a major plot point, but it never got resolved.
Jamie's capture of Highgarden netted enough gold for the Iron Bank to consider the old debt paid and to extend a brand new line of credit to Cersei to hire the Golden Company. It probably wasn't as much as the crown's previous total debts, but armies aren't cheap.
This is the part I don't get. So they get highgarden, but the convoy of treasure going back to Kings landing to pay the bank, gets intercepted by Dany's army and massacred/melted. So they DIDN'T pay the bank back. Remember when they are waiting for the convoy to get there and it never did? Am I missing something? So how did she pay for these armies? More line of credit?
. . . . It's funny, b/c I love to mentally re-write my favorite stories. I remember when Buffy the Vampire Slayer ended, I also liked the last season a lot more than many fans, BUT I also had a very detailed 'alternate version' of that season in my head that would have taken only a few tweaks to do and would have been SOOO much more satisfying in terms of character arcs and some of the themes that season was playing with. . . ..
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
That was quite excellent. From the article:QuoteAnother example of sociological TV drama with a similarly enthusiastic fan following is David Simon’s The Wire, which followed the trajectory of a variety of actors in Baltimore, ranging from African-Americans in the impoverished and neglected inner city trying to survive, to police officers to journalists to unionized dock workers to city officials and teachers.
"The Wire" is often cited as one of the best TV series ever--and I happen to love it--but I didn't realize the similarities with GoT. In the Wire, it doesn't matter if you are good or bad, or a main character or not, things just happen to you. Tiny, sometimes random events would have major consequences, just like in real life.
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/)) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological." The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own. Cool read.
That was quite excellent. From the article:QuoteAnother example of sociological TV drama with a similarly enthusiastic fan following is David Simon’s The Wire, which followed the trajectory of a variety of actors in Baltimore, ranging from African-Americans in the impoverished and neglected inner city trying to survive, to police officers to journalists to unionized dock workers to city officials and teachers.
"The Wire" is often cited as one of the best TV series ever--and I happen to love it--but I didn't realize the similarities with GoT. In the Wire, it doesn't matter if you are good or bad, or a main character or not, things just happen to you. Tiny, sometimes random events would have major consequences, just like in real life.
I find The Wire to be very much more grounded than GOT is even from the books. When I finished The Wire I was depressed as f**k. I am just going to confess as much as I am in awe of GRRM and the world he weaves, I think book readers can confess that there are definitely some plot lines you have to google because there is just so much to keep up with and I am not 100% sure we even need some of the plot lines in book 4.
I am also still in awe of how Jon Snow has survived. Also, he seems to have resurrected with no consequences in the show...
Danerys arc actually made a lot of sense to me.
She was always OK with over the top and uncompromising murder of people . . . it's just that we all went along with it (and cheered) because the murders were confined to what we were being told were bad people. As mentioned, we always saw these actions through Dany's eyes. There was never really a close up of what was going on. . . for all we know many of the 'bad' people being massacred were decent folk then as well. With the siege and then pillage of King's Landing we got shown first hand what that same uncompromising type of action does at a very granular level.
Exactly the same actions (and quite consistent with her history), but just a slightly different perspective (that of the people being massacred) really drives home a very different message.
Danerys arc actually made a lot of sense to me.
She was always OK with over the top and uncompromising murder of people . . . it's just that we all went along with it (and cheered) because the murders were confined to what we were being told were bad people. As mentioned, we always saw these actions through Dany's eyes. There was never really a close up of what was going on. . . for all we know many of the 'bad' people being massacred were decent folk then as well. With the siege and then pillage of King's Landing we got shown first hand what that same uncompromising type of action does at a very granular level.
Exactly the same actions (and quite consistent with her history), but just a slightly different perspective (that of the people being massacred) really drives home a very different message.
I disagree. She could go over the top in being murdery, but it was always specifically kicking upwards, not downwards. She would kill the slave masters and free the slaves. She would kill the Tarley father and son, but spare their troops. In contrast in the bells she could have flown directly to the keep and made an example of Cersei whom she despised. Instead, the bells tolled, the people she was burning with her dragons were actually HER SUBJECTS. She was basically killing her own people whom she said she would always protect. She never even specifically went after Cersei. There were ways to write it or build up to it where maybe it would make more sense (such as the villagers revolting or some final betrayal), but they chose to make it not be consistent with the rest of the story arc.
Danerys arc actually made a lot of sense to me.
She was always OK with over the top and uncompromising murder of people . . . it's just that we all went along with it (and cheered) because the murders were confined to what we were being told were bad people. As mentioned, we always saw these actions through Dany's eyes. There was never really a close up of what was going on. . . for all we know many of the 'bad' people being massacred were decent folk then as well. With the siege and then pillage of King's Landing we got shown first hand what that same uncompromising type of action does at a very granular level.
Exactly the same actions (and quite consistent with her history), but just a slightly different perspective (that of the people being massacred) really drives home a very different message.
I disagree. She could go over the top in being murdery, but it was always specifically kicking upwards, not downwards. She would kill the slave masters and free the slaves. She would kill the Tarley father and son, but spare their troops. In contrast in the bells she could have flown directly to the keep and made an example of Cersei whom she despised. Instead, the bells tolled, the people she was burning with her dragons were actually HER SUBJECTS. She was basically killing her own people whom she said she would always protect. She never even specifically went after Cersei. There were ways to write it or build up to it where maybe it would make more sense (such as the villagers revolting or some final betrayal), but they chose to make it not be consistent with the rest of the story arc.
The lack of adequate provocation is what finally moves her into the "mad" and "too dangerous to rule" category. The illogical nature of it was necessary to show she had succumbed to the Targaryen madness and that this was beyond the typical political based brutality so many others engaged in.
Like all of the last 2 seasons this transformation was rushed, but it wasn't completely out of left field. She'd always planned to kill whoever stood between her and her rightful place on the Iron Throne. She was used to being loved by her followers, but after her cold reception by the people of Westeros she realized neither the Lords/Ladies nor the common people were going to flock to her like she expected so she decided instilling fear was her path to not only taking the throne, but actually ruling once that was achieved. In her head the people of King's Landing were expendable (useful even) in that pursuit, but she was the only one who had lost enough perspective to see it that way.
At least I think that's what they were going for.
The lack of adequate provocation is what finally moves her into the "mad" and "too dangerous to rule" category. The illogical nature of it was necessary to show she had succumbed to the Targaryen madness and that this was beyond the typical political based brutality so many others engaged in.
Like all of the last 2 seasons this transformation was rushed, but it wasn't completely out of left field. She'd always planned to kill whoever stood between her and her rightful place on the Iron Throne. She was used to being loved by her followers, but after her cold reception by the people of Westeros she realized neither the Lords/Ladies nor the common people were going to flock to her like she expected so she decided instilling fear was her path to not only taking the throne, but actually ruling once that was achieved. In her head the people of King's Landing were expendable (useful even) in that pursuit, but she was the only one who had lost enough perspective to see it that way.
At least I think that's what they were going for.
Agreed. There was some foreshadowing, but we didn't really see her decent into madness. In S8 she lost another dragon, along with Ser Jorah and Missandei, Tyrion's advice had gone bad, and she was betrayed by Varys. She had reason to crack, but it seemed to happen all at once.
Danerys arc actually made a lot of sense to me.
She was always OK with over the top and uncompromising murder of people . . . it's just that we all went along with it (and cheered) because the murders were confined to what we were being told were bad people. As mentioned, we always saw these actions through Dany's eyes. There was never really a close up of what was going on. . . for all we know many of the 'bad' people being massacred were decent folk then as well. With the siege and then pillage of King's Landing we got shown first hand what that same uncompromising type of action does at a very granular level.
Exactly the same actions (and quite consistent with her history), but just a slightly different perspective (that of the people being massacred) really drives home a very different message.
I disagree. She could go over the top in being murdery, but it was always specifically kicking upwards, not downwards. She would kill the slave masters and free the slaves. She would kill the Tarley father and son, but spare their troops. In contrast in the bells she could have flown directly to the keep and made an example of Cersei whom she despised. Instead, the bells tolled, the people she was burning with her dragons were actually HER SUBJECTS. She was basically killing her own people whom she said she would always protect. She never even specifically went after Cersei. There were ways to write it or build up to it where maybe it would make more sense (such as the villagers revolting or some final betrayal), but they chose to make it not be consistent with the rest of the story arc.
The lack of adequate provocation is what finally moves her into the "mad" and "too dangerous to rule" category. The illogical nature of it was necessary to show she had succumbed to the Targaryen madness and that this was beyond the typical political based brutality so many others engaged in.
Like all of the last 2 seasons this transformation was rushed, but it wasn't completely out of left field. She'd always planned to kill whoever stood between her and her rightful place on the Iron Throne. She was used to being loved by her followers, but after her cold reception by the people of Westeros she realized neither the Lords/Ladies nor the common people were going to flock to her like she expected so she decided instilling fear was her path to not only take the throne, but actually rule once that was achieved. In her head the people of King's Landing were expendable (useful even) in that pursuit, but she was the only one who had lost enough perspective to see it that way.
At least I think that's what they were going for.
All of the above could fall under the "mad" category, but I think the intention between the two could be telling as to what happened to her character. I'd need to rewatch the last episode to see which version I feel it was.It just struck me as stupid. Seething with rage in that moment made sense based on what had happened, but why would you be glaring in Cersei's direction in the Red Keep and then just decide to swoop down and wipe out the city. Just go destroy the Red Keep and keep the city largely intact. If you want to portray Dany as crazy and somehow thinking the smallfolk were reflective of Cersei - okay, but as has been pointed out, that connection wasn't really fleshed out. Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved. Even when Missandei said "Dracarys", I took that as that Dany should flame Cersei & Co., since, ya know, they were the ones on the rampart beheading her to get a reaction and not the citizens.
Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved.
All of the above could fall under the "mad" category, but I think the intention between the two could be telling as to what happened to her character. I'd need to rewatch the last episode to see which version I feel it was.It just struck me as stupid. Seething with rage in that moment made sense based on what had happened, but why would you be glaring in Cersei's direction in the Red Keep and then just decide to swoop down and wipe out the city. Just go destroy the Red Keep and keep the city largely intact. If you want to portray Dany as crazy and somehow thinking the smallfolk were reflective of Cersei - okay, but as has been pointed out, that connection wasn't really fleshed out. Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved. Even when Missandei said "Dracarys", I took that as that Dany should flame Cersei & Co., since, ya know, they were the ones on the rampart beheading her to get a reaction and not the citizens.
Even if Dany hadn't gone crazy and had resigned herself to be the wife of Aegon, there would've been plenty of material to sort out that wasn't fairytale ending. No way would an independent Winterfell, Bronn in Highgarden, Grey Worm et al. leaving like that, and all these other silly things have happened (nor should they have either way) so tidily. It would've been still very difficult for Aegon VI to rule. Hell, you're a Targaryen making the rules after re-establishing the throne (similar to Aegon I). You can do whatever you want, Jon already said 1000x he didn't want the crown so it could've been a shallow title. You could recognize Jon as legitimate and still have the ruling power. Break the wheel! Do your thing! Don't go crazy!
Side note: Isn't it weird how even in Westeros the wife of a king is a queen but the husband of a queen is a prince? No king (regent) or princess used.
Okay, the smallfolk weren't standing with Cersei. Executing Mossador and the Tarlys, while unnecessary, at least were within her character. Those people were directly in opposition to her or at least a policy. Show me one non-court-related citizen of King's Landing that did something to Dany.Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved.
Daenarys has a history of executing people who stand with her enemies - innocence be damned. You think every 'slaver' who died in her massacres was guilty? Sure many of them were, but I bet some were just going with the flow and afraid of disobeying the biggest source of power that they had ever known.
Same deal in King's Landing. The people still there were supporting Cersi. So they had to die.
Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved.
Daenarys has a history of executing people who stand with her enemies - innocence be damned. You think every 'slaver' who died in her massacres was guilty? Sure many of them were, but I bet some were just going with the flow and afraid of disobeying the biggest source of power that they had ever known.
Same deal in King's Landing. The people still there were supporting Cersi. So they had to die.
Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved.
Daenarys has a history of executing people who stand with her enemies - innocence be damned. You think every 'slaver' who died in her massacres was guilty? Sure many of them were, but I bet some were just going with the flow and afraid of disobeying the biggest source of power that they had ever known.
Same deal in King's Landing. The people still there were supporting Cersi. So they had to die.
But they weren't supporting Cersi. They rang the bells, opened the gates, and dropped their weapons.
Dany just had bad stuff happen to her and the people of the city were not involved.
Daenarys has a history of executing people who stand with her enemies - innocence be damned. You think every 'slaver' who died in her massacres was guilty? Sure many of them were, but I bet some were just going with the flow and afraid of disobeying the biggest source of power that they had ever known.
Same deal in King's Landing. The people still there were supporting Cersi. So they had to die.
But they weren't supporting Cersi. They rang the bells, opened the gates, and dropped their weapons.
You're taking it as gospel that all of the people massacred in the past were all evil slave owners. I believe a pretty strong case can be made that this probably wasn't the entire truth.
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
I still love Khal Drogo almost as much as Ivan Drago
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
There is a prequel that, if not already under production, has at least been cast. It takes place thousands of years before GoT. George RR Martin is involved, but has a different show runner than GoT.
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
There is a prequel that, if not already under production, has at least been cast. It takes place thousands of years before GoT. George RR Martin is involved, but has a different show runner than GoT.
I am going to boycott anything the showrunners (David Benioff and D.B. Weiss) are involved with. I understand they're not involved with the spin offs and prequels, but I've also lost interest in all things game of thrones even if they aren't involved.
The show got steadily worse as D&D ran out of book material to copy. Then the last season took a complete nose dive. It's been five years since the last book. Between the wait for the books and the disappointment in the show I'm on the edge of just not caring about the franchise at all anymore. "Numb" sounds like too strong of a word, but I wonder who else in the fandom has become " I just don't care anymore?"
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
There is a prequel that, if not already under production, has at least been cast. It takes place thousands of years before GoT. George RR Martin is involved, but has a different show runner than GoT.
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
There is a prequel that, if not already under production, has at least been cast. It takes place thousands of years before GoT. George RR Martin is involved, but has a different show runner than GoT.
It's been over 5 months and I still feel bitter about the garbage they passed off as the last season. I thought that as time went on my anger and disappointment would fade, but it's as intense as ever.
I still get that way about Lost, and it has been years. You learn to live with it :)
Saw this topic pop up and was thinking is there going to be another season....maybe a spin off? Nope guess not. :(
There is a prequel that, if not already under production, has at least been cast. It takes place thousands of years before GoT. George RR Martin is involved, but has a different show runner than GoT.
FYI this show was indeed cast (Naomi Watts was one of the leads) and a pilot was shot, but apparently HBO didn't like it and has scrapped the whole thing as of a few days ago. I'm a little surprised by this...the original GoT series and Westworld (HBO's two biggest shows) had notoriously fraught early stages of production, I believe including complete reworks of both pilots and some last minute recasts, so it's not like them to just pull the plug b/c of some bumps in the road.
Either GoT stock has plummeted, or HBO feels they just have way too much good stuff on their plate right now (ETA: I hope this means His Dark Materials is about to kick ass!) to throw good money after bad. The network is apparently still pursuing other GoT show possibilities, but I think nothing is on the immediate horizon right now.
The show got steadily worse as D&D ran out of book material to copy. Then the last season took a complete nose dive. It's been five years since the last book. Between the wait for the books and the disappointment in the show I'm on the edge of just not caring about the franchise at all anymore. "Numb" sounds like too strong of a word, but I wonder who else in the fandom has become " I just don't care anymore?"
Me, for one. I'm 100% sure I won't bother to buy the next book when/if it ever comes out. Bleah.
The show got steadily worse as D&D ran out of book material to copy. Then the last season took a complete nose dive. It's been five years since the last book. Between the wait for the books and the disappointment in the show I'm on the edge of just not caring about the franchise at all anymore. "Numb" sounds like too strong of a word, but I wonder who else in the fandom has become " I just don't care anymore?"
Me, for one. I'm 100% sure I won't bother to buy the next book when/if it ever comes out. Bleah.
When I do see a preview chapter of Winds of Winter (I think there are 3 or 4 that have been out at various times) it always blows me away. If Martin releases it, it will be fantastic. I almost worry he'll have something that is 90% fantastic and refuse to release it because...perfectionism.
People complaining about the last season of the show probably aren't helping this. The first five seasons were fantastic. Other people criticize the genocide, but I was bothered more by removing Varys, which meant there couldn't be a final shot of him and Peter Dinklage walking away from the camera, bantering in that way that they do which is so fantastic. Something akin to the ending of "Casablanca".