Author Topic: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!  (Read 35208 times)

Freeyourchains2

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This topic was started in another thread here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investor-alley-stock-trading-game/50/

So the discussion can be continued here about the perpetual motion invention dilemma... and how once you are FI, will the bribing of million, billions, trillions stop you from changing the world for the better? It's also a very moral question once your life becomes threatened by powerful kings/governments.

From the other thread:
Weekend project for all: DIY self-sustaining autonomous power generator from only permanent magnets and carpentry/welding skills under a budget of $50 investment dollars.

Get it running so it generates a continuous flow of amps (5V, 0.02A or so), then start charging some low voltage items. This will help amaze you and get you thinking more along the lines of "Free Energy" and why it's being suppressed (human greed economics). Of course us engineering/science oriented Mustachians' rebellious and curiously open minded natures will then get you thinking about how this can power higher voltage items freely ;-)

Then you'll realize a few extremely important things about leaving this kind of cave below:

1) No more electricity bills, ever! (A $265 Billion dollar revenue industry, http://www.eia.gov/electricity/sales_revenue_price/pdf/table10.pdf just in the 50 states alone. So maybe $2 Trillion globally.)
2) No more electricity bill taxes, ever!
3) No more electricity Bill customer surcharge fees that go up due to inflation and "CEO salary increases by defaulted investor proxy vote" (Yes i stuck that in here properly, hehe).
4) You found a way around inflation by building it yourself and locally.
5) Keep tinkering and you can make it more efficient and get more power.
6) Tesla added a third coil to his Tesla Transformer Coil to get thousands of Amps from a few amps back in 1902 (Patented and witnessed here: https://www.google.com/patents/US1119732?printsec=drawing&dq=tesla+1902&ei=t9UcUqGlI-O9sQSYiIDIDQ#v=onepage&q=tesla%201902&f=false.
Got to love Google Patents and the power of the internet)
7) If 7 billion people each built one for themselves, they could purify ocean water, cook food, grow food autonomously, and build whatever they desired quickly and numerously without having to buy it from big government or big corporations.

So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Yes, but patent pending for a few reasons which i will try to explain here briefly. There is a lot of high competition with intelligence forces working round the clock to suppress a world wide change.

For example with this article (in 2010, 3 long years ago..): http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/22/bloom-energy-boxes/

Interesting why the U.S. Patent Office is so backlogged...by about 6-7 years now, while 57% of the Tax payers' taxes go to "Classified" Military Budgets so the government can play with classified patents and remake them with their unlimited income and resources while others can not) so can't talk much about it and there is extremely high competition. Plus the possibility i will be bought out and it be shelved.... oh wait I am mustachian and I can say "NO! F YOU!" and then be shot or jailed forever, while my inventions have already been dispersed to family, friends, youtube, etc and the world is changed forever.

So since i hate power struggles, and A king/government thinks they own people still...i won't need to wait on "patent pending" will I. And if fear doesn't hold me back, (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/23/fear-is-just-a-chemical/) then i should start releasing my inventions shouldn't I?

It's quite a dilemma after seeing so many inventors suppressed, jailed, or killed throughout history for things that would change the world. History of the invention does not start with the Patent, which so many un-educated or unaware people think it does.

Cecil

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 01:52:02 PM »
Quote
Weekend project for all: DIY self-sustaining autonomous power generator from only permanent magnets and carpentry/welding skills under a budget of $50 investment dollars.

Please post a detailed schematic of how this generator works.

Jamesqf

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 04:10:33 PM »
Assuming for the sake of discussion that this free energy generator actually worked, how would it actually make life better for everyone?

To take one similar case, consider the invention of low-cost electric lighting.  Now that's certainly a boon in a lot of ways, but because it is so inexpensive, much of it is wasted illuninating things that don't need light, like empty buildings & parking lots.  This leads to light pollution, which makes a lot of people (and other living things) ill because it disrupts natural biorhythms &c.

matchewed

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 04:28:01 PM »
Um, refrigeration, transportation of clean water, transportation of unclean water, running waste processing plants, irrigation...etc. I can think of several things energy has done for us. It's easy to sit in a well developed country and say what would free energy do for us when we get cheap energy. Not so easy when you're not in one of those countries and that energy could be used to raise the quality of life significantly.

Either way free energy is BS.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 04:43:37 PM »
Free energy has not been found.  It very likely does not exist, although perhaps there could be things that mimic free energy close enough to fool everyone.  An example might be opening a portal into a higher order dimension (String theory, which actually has real scientists studying it requires extra dimensions).  If one were to draw energy somehow from these hidden dimensions, it might look like free energy on this plane.

But even if this were able to be done, it isn't going to be 8 refrigerator magnets fastened to a garbage pail lid.  It might be some collision between protons in the LHC produces some Fermion with greater energy than initially calculated.

Long story short, OP is a crackpot.

Jimbo

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 05:16:42 PM »
Guys,

this thread is so meta! The OP is trying to prove that the only source of infinite energy is the energy spent feeding trolls on the internet.

Well played OP, well played.

JamesAt15

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 05:55:19 PM »
Free energy has not been found.  It very likely does not exist, although perhaps there could be things that mimic free energy close enough to fool everyone.  An example might be opening a portal into a higher order dimension (String theory, which actually has real scientists studying it requires extra dimensions).  If one were to draw energy somehow from these hidden dimensions, it might look like free energy on this plane.

Oh, like in "The Gods Themselves"? Classic SF, although I found it pretty hard to get through back in my junior high school days. I think it didn't have enough spaceships for my taste.

JamesAt15

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 06:11:16 PM »
So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Yes, but patent pending for a few reasons which i will try to explain here briefly. There is a lot of high competition with intelligence forces working round the clock to suppress a world wide change.

Did you submit a working model of your perpetual motion machine to the patent office for your application? Because the US patent office will reject any patents for perpetual motion machines that do not include a working model. (Models are apparently not required for other types of inventions.)

From the Perpetual Motion Wikipedia page:

Quote
Proposals for such inoperable machines have become so common that the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) has made an official policy of refusing to grant patents for perpetual motion machines without a working model. The USPTO Manual of Patent Examining Practice states:

    "With the exception of cases involving perpetual motion, a model is not ordinarily required by the Office to demonstrate the operability of a device. If operability of a device is questioned, the applicant must establish it to the satisfaction of the examiner, but he or she may choose his or her own way of so doing."

And, further, that:

    "A rejection [of a patent application] on the ground of lack of utility includes the more specific grounds of inoperativeness, involving perpetual motion. A rejection under 35 U.S.C. 101 for lack of utility should not be based on grounds that the invention is frivolous, fraudulent or against public policy."

The filing of a patent application is a clerical task, and the USPTO will not refuse filings for perpetual motion machines; the application will be filed and then most probably rejected by the patent examiner, after he has done a formal examination.[23] Even if a patent is granted, it does not mean that the invention actually works, it just means that the examiner believes that it works, or was unable to figure out why it would not work.

So if you applied for a patent and did not submit a working model, you should probably expect your patent to be rejected.

Jamesqf

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 09:58:39 PM »
Um, refrigeration, transportation of clean water, transportation of unclean water, running waste processing plants, irrigation...etc. I can think of several things energy has done for us.

Sure, I was not suggesting that energy is not useful.  What I'm suggesting is that unlimited free energy would cause more problems than it would solve.  Indeed, it's so cheap now that we face really significant problems (up to and including the extinction of most vertebrate life) due in part to the fact that people unthinkingly waste it.

Consider that even at current energy prices, there are people who will do completely insane things with it, such as installing electrically heated driveways to melt snow.  What would they do with unlimited free energy, decide they want to melt all the snow and heat the local lakes to bathwater temperatures?

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 10:56:12 PM »
I'm just a bit confused.  Did the sun go out in some parts of the country, and not come back?  Cause here, I've been getting free energy (after initial materials cost) for many years, as do many, many other people.
Some do it with this fancy piece of black glass with wires sticking out the back, and a few use this big white propeller looking thing.  I even here some people harness the power of waterfalls with little metal turbines.

And the best part is, none of them violate the basic principals of thermodynamics, which mean they actually exist, here in the real world.

Somehow the oil industry and politicians were not able to suppress any of this, not with bribes or threats or secret spy stuff, because its pretty well known.


Although, incidentally, solar water heating really was suppressed with bribes of money for many years back in the 1950s(?) - utility companies in sunny states would offer free gas or electric water heaters, even cash rebates, to prevent the then trend of solar water heaters from expanding.  It worked.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 09:05:44 AM »
Um, refrigeration, transportation of clean water, transportation of unclean water, running waste processing plants, irrigation...etc. I can think of several things energy has done for us. It's easy to sit in a well developed country and say what would free energy do for us when we get cheap energy. Not so easy when you're not in one of those countries and that energy could be used to raise the quality of life significantly.

Either way free energy is BS.

Radiant energy is bountiful and endless much like one of the forms of Gravity is from the sun and earth's summation of matter.

The modern suppressed definition of Radiant Energy is: "energy that is transmitted in the form of (electromagnetic) radiation; energy that exists in the absence of matter" ~http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=radiant energy

But the 1900's definition before the greedy economic suppression period is something else entirely, here:

"Tesla continued to investigate through experiments, taking precautions against the high voltages being produced. He was soon able to produce these shockwaves whenever he wanted to. The shockwaves produced a stinging sensation no matter where he stood in his laboratory, and hands and face were particularly sensitive to the wave. These waves radiated out and penetrated metal, glass and every other kind of material. This was clearly not an electromagnetic wave, so he called the new wave “Radiant Electricity”.

Tesla searched the literature to find references to this radiant energy but he could not find much. In 1842, Dr. Joseph Henry had observed that steel needles were magnetised by a Leyden Jar spark discharge located on a different floor of the building. The magnetising wave had passed through brick walls, oak doors, heavy stone and iron flooring and tin ceilings to reach the needles located in a vault in the cellar.

In 1872, Elihu Thomson took a large Ruhmkorrf Spark Coil, attached one pole of the coil to a cold-water pipe and the other pole to a metal table top. This resulted in a series of massive sparks which electrified the metal door knob of the room and produced the stinging shockwaves which Tesla was investigating. He found that any insulated metal object anywhere in the building would produce long continuous white sparks discharging to ground. This discovery was written up briefly in the Scientific American journal later that year.

Tesla concluded that all of the phenomena which he had observed, implied the presence of a medium . . . consisting of independent carriers capable of free motion – besides the air, another medium is present. This invisible medium is capable of carrying waves of energy through all substances, which suggests that, if physical, its basic structure is much smaller than the atoms which make up commonplace materials, allowing the stream of matter to pass freely through all solids. It appears that all of space is filled with this matter."~ http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=481

Side Notes: Radiant ("Dark") Energy occurs day or night, continuously.

Modern science believes in "Cosmic Rays" but they believe the sun's Heliosphere completely blocks the Cosmic rays from entering the solar system (hmm i wonder why they believe that when the Earth's Magnetosphere doesn't completely block all the plasma and CME from the Sun.)

There are many observations in his and other's books and writings and science experiment reports that were witnessed by many. Then it all was suppressed by powerful men of riches and political power.

Of course even if you visit the new American History Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C. it will say Thomas Edison was the founder of the Industrial Revolution and invented Alternating Current. While using Westinghouse's Brand as the sole inventor of the AC generator.

Though clearly Tesla's U.S. Patents state otherwise.

If you have high school children, you should ask to borrow their U.S. History Textbooks and see if Tesla is ever mentioned at all.

If you have an engineering degree, the first step i recommend is reading these U.S. Patents with the Google patents tool:

U.S. Patent 685957 https://www.google.com/patents/US685957?printsec=abstract&dq=radiant+energy+tesla&ei=PA8eUsvnK6W6sATQ44HYDw#v=onepage&q&f=false

Many more: Google Patent Search Tesla or look at fuel efficient website for more information.

Another Invention of note is U.S. Patent 3,626,605. METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR GENERATING A SECONDARY GRAVITATIONAL FORCE FIELDhttps://www.google.com/patents/US3626605?printsec=abstract&dq=3,626,605&ei=xXiaUcDoHtaz4AOIiYCYAQ#v=onepage&q=3%2C626%2C605&f=false

Using Bismuth as the main element, because Bismuth has unusual gravitational or "non-electromagnetic" properties.

Read the fuel efficient website above for the well put together overview.

Tesla's books are quite amazing as well for his recorded observations from others and witnesses.

http://books.google.com/books?id=HIuK7iLO9zgC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

All of these help you to understand how to think outside the "Laws" of physics to help understand the many mysteries still remaining, once you have learned the fundamental science of physics. However, many others will try and suppress or redirect your curiosity to these mysteries even in the academia world.

matchewed

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 09:25:57 AM »
Obligatory picture.

Out of curiosity do you have any links to experiments and data showing that there is an entire separate fundamental force outside of gravity, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and electromagnetism? Because that is what you are proposing here. And that is an extraordinary claim and as you may have heard those need extraordinary evidence, you can't just say it's fact without evidence of that fact.

Le Dérisoire

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 09:57:45 AM »
Obligatory picture.

Out of curiosity do you have any links to experiments and data showing that there is an entire separate fundamental force outside of gravity, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and electromagnetism? Because that is what you are proposing here. And that is an extraordinary claim and as you may have heard those need extraordinary evidence, you can't just say it's fact without evidence of that fact.

The existence of dark energy, that would allow the accelerating expansion of the universe, is an accepted hypothesis.

However, nobody knows for sure if it really exists. Freeyourchains2 seems to be claiming that he, or someone else, could harness dark energy to create 'free energy'. He only can't because he's supressed by the evil capitalists in wall street.

GuitarStv

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 10:08:15 AM »





Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 10:08:53 AM »
Free energy has not been found.  It very likely does not exist, although perhaps there could be things that mimic free energy close enough to fool everyone.  An example might be opening a portal into a higher order dimension (String theory, which actually has real scientists studying it requires extra dimensions).  If one were to draw energy somehow from these hidden dimensions, it might look like free energy on this plane.

But even if this were able to be done, it isn't going to be 8 refrigerator magnets fastened to a garbage pail lid.  It might be some collision between protons in the LHC produces some Fermion with greater energy than initially calculated.

Long story short, OP is a crackpot.

Magnetism helps but is just a median for accessing another median where radiant energy traverses continually and exists. It's a step in the system to help access the free energy.

Modern science is thinking too much about particles physics and less about wave physics. When higher frequency are just as important as a median to access free energy. Extremely high frequencies are forgotten about and damped by controller methods and engineering power applications, when they should use these extreme frequencies to access other medians and ways to receive boundless energy.

Great example of this unknown median of Radiant Energy.

Think of the Earth's surface itself as a giant Ground in a Circuit. Think of the static, electric thunderstorms as a giant Positive charge of the Voltage. When the conductor median of the ions(nitrogen mostly) in the lower atmosphere arrange in a tesla coil like fashion at very high frequencies between the two, and a transformer like path of high potential is produced. Much like a Tesla Coil's Secondary wiring and high frequency range; that energy now has the best path to travel via high frequency and extreme potential and strikes the ground in a giant flash of lightning or released energy when the primary path is found (from the surface side of things, like a tree or a building's antennae)!

This Voltage potential being in the Range of 100,000 Volts with thousands of Amps.

Now consider the planet Earth as a giant Ground on a circuit, and the Sun as a Positive Charge, with 1AU distance capacitance available. At extremely high frequencies, and with plasmas from the Sun acting like the ions in our lower atmosphere, you now have a median of which to access  Radiant energy in the millions of amps with a Voltage in the billions.

Of course be careful. Given the proper Tesla Coil primary, secondary,  third, etc windings of ions or EM fields in coils between Earth and the Sun and BOOM! You have a Lightning Strike on an astronomical scale that could destroy the planet. So hopefully no magnetic coils like on the Sun's Surface every day can stretch out long enough to get close enough to the earth's magnetosphere, or at least the CME doesn't become dense enough to act like a tesla coil of plasma with extreme  frequencies to make this disastrous lightning strike.

As for solar energy, those "particle photons" or particle-wave EM medians to transfer energy get bounced around, refracted and reflected before they arrive into a solar cell. They are only generated within the light spectrum and can only be accessed during the day or off the moon.

Radiant energy is a lot different. It passes through matter so at extreme frequencies and it can be accessed at the bottom of the sea or in the deepest mountain, or during the night.

Rickk

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 10:17:41 AM »
Wow!  The only thing I can add is:
You should always keep and open mind - but not so open that your brains fall out!

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 10:21:15 AM »
Wow!  The only thing I can add is:
You should always keep and open mind - but not so open that your brains fall out!

This.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 10:26:27 AM »
GuitarStv what you should be facepalming is how:

Only 20% of the world's population makes more then $20,000/year.

How the $ symbol is the most sought after currency with the most sought after country offering "freedom" and, for now, a chance for financial independence.

How the US offers every citizens in it's lands the ability to pay for electricity, when
the same government taxes every citizen and business's income. Then this government uses 57% of it's collected taxes for Classified "National Security" Military Strength of Power to police the world and have free reign upon using any creative invention ever made by it's citizens; yet, never giving it's own citizens the power to utilize all of these "classified patents" technology. AND they can not even offer give 10% of those "budgets for military purposes" in "free" electricity to all it's citizens and businesses.

(Oh wait, if your income is less than $12,000 a year, you can get approved for free non-commercial electricity because the government thinks you are poor and will gladly pay for your necessities.)

So if electricity become available freely inside of every household and car and truck and train and device. Then no one would ever need to work again (except to make sure this electricity is sustainable and working.) And the government would need to change it's tax policies else it would go bankrupt on worker citizen income.


prodarwin

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 10:47:54 AM »

So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Yes


I think this sums things up nicely.

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Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 11:07:33 AM »
So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Yes, but patent pending for a few reasons which i will try to explain here briefly. There is a lot of high competition with intelligence forces working round the clock to suppress a world wide change.

Did you submit a working model of your perpetual motion machine to the patent office for your application? Because the US patent office will reject any patents for perpetual motion machines that do not include a working model. (Models are apparently not required for other types of inventions.)

From the Perpetual Motion Wikipedia page:

Quote
Proposals for such inoperable machines have become so common that the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) has made an official policy of refusing to grant patents for perpetual motion machines without a working model. The USPTO Manual of Patent Examining Practice states:

    "With the exception of cases involving perpetual motion, a model is not ordinarily required by the Office to demonstrate the operability of a device. If operability of a device is questioned, the applicant must establish it to the satisfaction of the examiner, but he or she may choose his or her own way of so doing."

And, further, that:

    "A rejection [of a patent application] on the ground of lack of utility includes the more specific grounds of inoperativeness, involving perpetual motion. A rejection under 35 U.S.C. 101 for lack of utility should not be based on grounds that the invention is frivolous, fraudulent or against public policy."

The filing of a patent application is a clerical task, and the USPTO will not refuse filings for perpetual motion machines; the application will be filed and then most probably rejected by the patent examiner, after he has done a formal examination.[23] Even if a patent is granted, it does not mean that the invention actually works, it just means that the examiner believes that it works, or was unable to figure out why it would not work.

So if you applied for a patent and did not submit a working model, you should probably expect your patent to be rejected.

I like your curiosity and thought process. Have you personally questioned their intentions of making this policy and why these inventions are so common, yet many are dismissed for many reasons, including some academic obvious reasons of course but then some that are dismissed for political reasons rather then by science ("like global warming")?

Then once some perpetual motion inventions are passed through this policy, no one ever hears about the inventions that are patented, bought, and shelved right away. Sometimes the inventor dies suddenly and the inventor's story is erased from history and all that is left are the rumors, the inventor signature on the Patent, and the history of the Patent starts with the Patent.

In a side note: Dams still make energy, and individuals can get energy from dams in their own backyards, or wait a minute... In some states, locally, or federally; Environmental Protection Agencies recently  have made laws against allowing citizens to extract energy from nature. Hmm i wonder why? So they guarantee their taxes? Interesting to think about.

ncornilsen

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 12:04:58 PM »
Dams do not MAKE energy. They capture it from the energy potential of different elevations of water.

Noone ever hears about these perpetual motion technologies because they're all frauds, or use some form of energy input.



/thread.


Jamesqf

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 12:35:36 PM »
I'm just a bit confused.  Did the sun go out in some parts of the country, and not come back?  Cause here, I've been getting free energy (after initial materials cost) for many years, as do many, many other people.

Sure, you're getting free energy, but you're not getting unlimited free energy.  At best (assuming perfectly efficient solar panels) you can only get about 700 watts per square meter, because that's how much energy there is in sunlight.  Similarly for wind: the amount of energy you can collect (per m^2 of turbine) is strictly limited by the wind speed.  So a) you pretty much have to use it efficiently, and b) you can't really go around heating your driveway with it.

So if electricity become available freely inside of every household and car and truck and train and device. Then no one would ever need to work again (except to make sure this electricity is sustainable and working.)

So with "free energy", no one would ever have to work to grow food, build houses, roads, iPhones or whatever, or do any of the myriad other things that have little to do with energy?

Point of fact: my monthly electric bill averages about $40.  I probably spend about the same amount on gas, plus a bit on heat in the winter.  My energy cost today is less than 2% of my typical monthly income.  How would unlimited "free energy" materially change my life?

Quote
And the government would need to change it's tax policies else it would go bankrupt on worker citizen income.

Now that's ridiculous.  Given my energy costs 2% of my income, and the government already takes >20% in income tax, sales tax, property tax, and all those other taxes...  Well, I think learning some basic math would help you immeasurably.

footenote

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 12:35:58 PM »
I took all my non-major required science courses in Physics. I have always thought every college education should require at least one non-major physics overview class (how nuclear reactors work, how energy like electricity is/can be generated, what momentum means and its impact (ha!) in common events like car accidents).

This thread deepens my conviction.

Bakari

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2013, 12:48:03 PM »
I'm just a bit confused.  Did the sun go out in some parts of the country, and not come back?  Cause here, I've been getting free energy (after initial materials cost) for many years, as do many, many other people.

Sure, you're getting free energy, but you're not getting unlimited free energy.  At best (assuming perfectly efficient solar panels) you can only get about 700 watts per square meter, because that's how much energy there is in sunlight.  Similarly for wind: the amount of energy you can collect (per m^2 of turbine) is strictly limited by the wind speed.  So a) you pretty much have to use it efficiently, and b) you can't really go around heating your driveway with it.

Limited per unit time, yes, but unlimited with respect to time.  That's 700wattes pr square meter (of course in practice much much less) every second of daytime, every day (except when its cloudy) as long as the panels last (20+ years)

swiper

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 01:03:03 PM »
@Jamesqf, you don't need Freeyourchains2 perpetual motion machine to realize your dream of heated driveways, just move to iceland: http://www.nea.is/geothermal/direct-utilization/snow-melting/


@Freeyourchains2: Dude, hook your machine up to some bitcoin miners and you will be set ;P

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 01:11:00 PM »
Just wanted to say, Freeyourchains2, you are off your rocker.. as many of your other posts have suggested earlier. Your enthusiasm is welcome, but you need some physics and history classes, lad.

As long as the Mustachians are having fun with this thread and don't mind wasting time, we should keep it. But I'm also fine with deleting it if the moderators prefer, as it is a total waste of my hard drive space.. :-)

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »
I feel like I'm in the Timecube http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube




Roland of Gilead

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 02:12:55 PM »
The sun is not free energy.  It is just a engine with a REALLY big gas tank.  Right now it is "burning" hydrogen to make helium.  Later it will fuse the helium to make some heavier elements (carbon, oxygen)  Eventually it will collapse to a glowing ember and your silly perpetual motion machine in your home will quit working.  Before then of course you would have been melted faster than a snicker bar on a stovetop as during the helium fusing phase the sun will expand past the earth's orbit.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 02:37:14 PM »
I feel like I'm in the Timecube http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube

Indeed. I'm glad I posted on here. I've lol'd at several posts on here as well as the the thread as a whole. Made my day. Seriously.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 02:49:36 PM »
I figured it out.  (as I said previously)

The guy never ever considers the points presented to him, but just goes on a new verbal diarrhea every time he posts.

He is harnessing the infinite power of the internet.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 03:55:07 PM »
Limited per unit time, yes, but unlimited with respect to time.  That's 700wattes pr square meter (of course in practice much much less) every second of daytime, every day (except when its cloudy) as long as the panels last (20+ years)

But still limited, even with respect to time.  Sure, you can get that (efficiency * cos (sun angle) * 700 watts/m^2) for as long as your equipment lasts, but it still adds up to a finite number of kWh.

Russ

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 05:05:41 PM »
Alright everyone, I agree that OP has some ideas that are out there by conventional standards, but let's rein in the personal attacks that are starting to pop up please.

From the forum rules:
Quote
1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Attack an argument, not a person.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 05:08:32 PM by Russ »

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 05:08:33 PM »
The sun is not free energy.  It is just a engine with a REALLY big gas tank.  Right now it is "burning" hydrogen to make helium.  Later it will fuse the helium to make some heavier elements (carbon, oxygen)  Eventually it will collapse to a glowing ember and your silly perpetual motion machine in your home will quit working.  Before then of course you would have been melted faster than a snicker bar on a stovetop as during the helium fusing phase the sun will expand past the earth's orbit.

You and James got your ideas swapped.
The sun is free - we don't need to expand any resources to gather it.
It is, as you point out, limited - which is why technically James criticism of my last post is correct

Neither point, though, is particularly relevant.
I maintain my initial point that - for all practical intents and purposes - all "renewable" forms of energy (solar (both PV and thermal), wind, gravity/hydro, geothermal, wave, tide, fusion... wait, no, strike that last one) represent a continuous source of energy after initial equipment investment.  All with out violating the Laws of Physics.

You may note that even the OPs perpetual motion machine with net positive energy output still requires some initial equipment investment, so really, the reality is equally as good as the fantasy!

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 05:51:16 PM »
No.  See, E = mc^2   This is well known and has been proven many times.

c is a constant, the speed of light.

Therefore matter can be turned into energy and energy into matter.

If you could create more energy in a closed system than you put into it, then it would be technically possible to create more matter inside a closed system than existed before the system was enclosed.

So you could have a box that just sat there pooping out eggs, or cars, or planets or suns with no external input.  It would fill the universe.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2013, 06:16:53 PM »
A technical question please!

Were the words 'verbal diarrhea' considered a personal attack? I don't think so but do correct me if it is...

Also, I merely pointed out the fact that the OP never answers any (most of them very well documented) rebuttals.... Which is kind of sad in this debate...

Alright, I'll leave this debate now.

Russ

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2013, 06:32:43 PM »
A technical question please!

Were the words 'verbal diarrhea' considered a personal attack? I don't think so but do correct me if it is...

Also, I merely pointed out the fact that the OP never answers any (most of them very well documented) rebuttals.... Which is kind of sad in this debate...

Alright, I'll leave this debate now.

Maybe not the words taken alone, but along with the tone of your post it could be interpreted as an attack whether you meant it as one or not. The forum member who reported the post (not OP, FWIW) certainly thought it was. I'll give you benefit of the doubt, which is why your post is still there.

A more productive and less prone to misinterpretation way to say the same thing might have been, as you put it,
the OP never answers any (most of them very well documented) rebuttals.... Which is kind of sad in this debate...

Jimbo

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2013, 06:47:12 PM »
Duly noted!

I try to walk the fine line between sarcasm and joking (as I feel this debate is pretty sterile) but I guess I am failing...

Positive note : I learned something from this thread!

Cheers!

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2013, 07:02:03 PM »
Quote
Then this government uses 57% of it's collected taxes for Classified "National Security" Military Strength of Power to police the world and have free reign upon using any creative invention ever made by it's citizens; yet, never giving it's own citizens the power to utilize all of these "classified patents" technology. AND they can not even offer give 10% of those "budgets for military purposes" in "free" electricity to all it's citizens and businesses.

I'd like to see a link for the US budget that spends 57% of taxes collected on Classified National Security, cause, I think I need a raise.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2013, 09:27:51 PM »
I maintain my initial point that - for all practical intents and purposes - all "renewable" forms of energy (solar (both PV and thermal), wind, gravity/hydro, geothermal, wave, tide, fusion... wait, no, strike that last one) represent a continuous source of energy after initial equipment investment.  All with out violating the Laws of Physics.

Quite true, but I was trying to make a rather different point, or really two closely connected points.  First, the amount of energy one person can practically collect and use from these renewable sources is strictly limited.  Second, the energy is energy that's there anyway.  That is, that 700 W/m^2 of sunlight is going to come in and have its effects on the Earth, regardless of whether or not you collect a bit of it with PV panels.  So collecting & using this energy in sensible ways is not going to have any great effect on the global environment.

That's not the case for this hypothetical "free" energy, which we somehow draw from another dimension.  Suppose everyone in a city builds one of these free energy collectors, and uses as much energy as they like.  After being used, all energy manifests as heat (even if the devices are 100% efficient), so you've just created a giant urban heat island.  No problem, you think, we'll just plug air conditioners into the free energy device.  Well, that ultimately makes even more heat, so you need more A/C, which makes more heat, until your city ultimately melts down.

Bakari

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2013, 10:42:14 PM »
Fair enough.

Its true even of renewable - cheap power always has consequences

Coal was once celebrated as an environmental miracle, as it allowed people to stop chopping down trees for fuel.
Didn't turn out well.
Then oil was discovered, and everyone thought it would solve all the environmental problems that coal caused, because it is more energy dense and burns cleaner.
That didn't end up working out either.

Nuclear was the solution (many people still think it is) - except it turns out the waste will be extremely toxic and extremely difficult and expensive to contain for longer than the amount of time homo-sapiens have existed so far - not to mention the occasional melt down

Wind 'aint so good for birds, solar panel manufacturing involves arsenic, cadmium telluride, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride among other things, and hydro requires flooding huge amounts of nature and/or real estate (don't serve the fish too well either).

Free, or even extremely cheap, energy will always encourage people to use more and more of it, and no form of consumption is without consequences.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2013, 06:43:51 AM »
No.  See, E = mc^2   This is well known and has been proven many times.

c is a constant, the speed of light.

Therefore matter can be turned into energy and energy into matter.

If you could create more energy in a closed system than you put into it, then it would be technically possible to create more matter inside a closed system than existed before the system was enclosed.

So you could have a box that just sat there pooping out eggs, or cars, or planets or suns with no external input.  It would fill the universe.
I think you just figured out why the government NEEDS to stop the "free energy" devices the OP speaks about. 
If the government didn't stop them from being invented then someone would start creating TOO MUCH MASS and the whole planet would just get way too heavy!
Then the rubber-bands in space that hold us in orbit around the sun would break and we would be flung into deep space and die!!!!!

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 07:51:13 AM »
Radiant Energy uses the Sun as a median, not it's source for energy.

Cosmic Rays are the source of energy. And from our POV this energy is free and unlimited as it streams into us constantly, but from a Universe POV, the energy is not free...as other's in this thread have stated, "it has to come from somewhere", and it is coming from the birth and death of stars and galaxies as described in the NASA article/illustration link below.

Tesla's definition of Cosmic rays has been expanded upon by the science community, but other's suppress the idea of utilizing cosmic rays for energy, and they state that the Sun's Heliosphere blocks out these cosmic rays.

Tesla Radiant Energy utilization Patent (that can use Cosmic Ray as a source and is witnessed of using)https://www.google.com/patents/US685957?printsec=drawing&dq=tesla+patent+radiant+energy&ei=5lAfUszrFe62sATx2oCIAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

 Here is the modern scientific thought on the matter from NASA of which i have quoted below to for convenience of this thread. But be sure to have a look at Tesla's patent from 1902 on utilizing cosmic ray energy, day or night, under water and above it, under the earth or outside.

For I used the knowledge and applications of both to cite from as the foundations of my long research and work on this invention, patent pending. And others have used similar patents to cite their ongoing inventions to harness the cosmic ray energy source. Unfortunately many of them are bought out, and their inventions never shared for humanity. (Greed vs humanities needs is the overall ethical dilemma presented)

NASA Cosmic Ray Definitionhttp://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/cosmic.html

"Cosmic Rays"

"Particles that bombard the Earth from anywhere beyond its atmosphere are known as cosmic rays. Cosmic rays don't take pretty pictures, but studying the quantity and type of these particles helps us to understand the acceleration processes involved and to measure the composition of the Sun, as well as sources at the far distant reaches of the galaxy.
Cosmic rays include:

Galactic Cosmic Rays -- coming from outside the solar system
Anomalous Cosmic Rays -- coming from the interstellar space at the edge of the heliopause
Solar Energetic Particles -- associated with solar flares and other energetic solar events

The term "cosmic rays" used to include X-rays and gamma rays.
The relative numbers of different isotopes found in the galaxy are established by the life cycle of massive stars. Star formation, evolution and explosion results in the creation of many of the heavier isotopes found in space. The process is shown in the figure below.

In a part of the galaxy where the composition of the interstellar gas is much like that of our own solar system (a), a cloud of gas collapses under the influence of its own gravity, and creates a new star (b). Inside the star (c), fusion converts some of the original hydrogen and helium into particles like carbon-12 and oxygen-16. At the same time, the carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen nuclei that were originally present in the star's fuel are converted into heavier, neutron-rich nuclei, like neon-22 and magnesium-25.

When this burning has exhausted all of the nuclear fuel in the core of the star, the star explodes as a supernova (d). The shock wave generated by the explosion produces additional heavy nuclei and ejects most of these products of nucleosynthesis back into the interstellar gas.

Repetition of these events in each generation of stars steadily enriches the interstellar gas in carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen, and in heavy nuclei with an excess of neutrons.

Some of the nuclei in the gas are accelerated to cosmic ray speeds, possibly by the shock waves from supernovae (e). Cosmic ray acceleration could also occur directly as the supernova is ejecting matter into interstellar space, as in (d). "
-End of Article

@Jimbo, There you go Jimbo, did that help? You kind of stated i wasn't answering questions then stormed off right away.

And most think this thread is "loony", almost like a consumer to the MMM site for the first time thinks MMM is "loony", but then that consumer's curiosity was peaked from that brief flicker of light from outside the cave wall, and he goes back to learn/question for more...and then that consumer becomes a saver/investor instead after some time, and then MMM has one more person to talk to on the same level.

As i state again, there are more shackles in the cave then just financial. All should eventually be aware of these other shackles, so they can gradually free their chains too! ;-)



And as a fun side note: What happens to a man once Financially Independent who has a Ph.d in Astrophysics when he saves 75% of his postdoctorate income for 10 years?

You get Jacob from http://earlyretirementextreme.com/.

But imagine if you have a passion for physics, especially electricty, magnetism, space weather, and astrophysics * all the free-time in the world * freedom from finances = ???....what wonderful visions and inventions could you come up with to change the world for the better?!

« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:59:04 AM by Freeyourchains2 »

hybrid

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2013, 08:10:38 AM »
Fair enough.

Its true even of renewable - cheap power always has consequences

Coal was once celebrated as an environmental miracle, as it allowed people to stop chopping down trees for fuel.
Didn't turn out well.
Then oil was discovered, and everyone thought it would solve all the environmental problems that coal caused, because it is more energy dense and burns cleaner.
That didn't end up working out either.

Nuclear was the solution (many people still think it is) - except it turns out the waste will be extremely toxic and extremely difficult and expensive to contain for longer than the amount of time homo-sapiens have existed so far - not to mention the occasional melt down

Wind 'aint so good for birds, solar panel manufacturing involves arsenic, cadmium telluride, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride among other things, and hydro requires flooding huge amounts of nature and/or real estate (don't serve the fish too well either).

Free, or even extremely cheap, energy will always encourage people to use more and more of it, and no form of consumption is without consequences.

There was a great show on PBS last night talking about the (seemingly quixotic) quest for truly neutral energy production (nothing like our loon is babbling about in this thread).  I had precious little hope that a hydrogen fuel cell would be a viable option given the Hindenburg, but great strides are being made in trapping a lot of hydrogen under a whole lot less pressure - by using chicken feathers (which, when burned, become super absorbent and can trap boatloads of hydrogen atoms efficiently).  I kid you not....  There was also discussion about bacteria that can produce gasoline-like-fuel rather than converting fossil fuels to gasoline (and adding a lot of carbon to the atmosphere in the process).  It was a fascinating program.  Anyone else catch it?

GuitarStv

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2013, 09:39:29 AM »
Radiant Energy uses the Sun as a median, not it's source for energy.

Cosmic Rays are the source of energy. And from our POV this energy is free and unlimited as it streams into us constantly, but from a Universe POV, the energy is not free...as other's in this thread have stated, "it has to come from somewhere", and it is coming from the birth and death of stars and galaxies as described in the NASA article/illustration link below.

Tesla's definition of Cosmic rays has been expanded upon by the science community, but other's suppress the idea of utilizing cosmic rays for energy, and they state that the Sun's Heliosphere blocks out these cosmic rays.

Tesla Radiant Energy utilization Patent (that can use Cosmic Ray as a source and is witnessed of using)https://www.google.com/patents/US685957?printsec=drawing&dq=tesla+patent+radiant+energy&ei=5lAfUszrFe62sATx2oCIAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

 Here is the modern scientific thought on the matter from NASA of which i have quoted below to for convenience of this thread. But be sure to have a look at Tesla's patent from 1902 on utilizing cosmic ray energy, day or night, under water and above it, under the earth or outside.

For I used the knowledge and applications of both to cite from as the foundations of my long research and work on this invention, patent pending. And others have used similar patents to cite their ongoing inventions to harness the cosmic ray energy source. Unfortunately many of them are bought out, and their inventions never shared for humanity. (Greed vs humanities needs is the overall ethical dilemma presented)

NASA Cosmic Ray Definitionhttp://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/cosmic.html

"Cosmic Rays"

"Particles that bombard the Earth from anywhere beyond its atmosphere are known as cosmic rays. Cosmic rays don't take pretty pictures, but studying the quantity and type of these particles helps us to understand the acceleration processes involved and to measure the composition of the Sun, as well as sources at the far distant reaches of the galaxy.
Cosmic rays include:

Galactic Cosmic Rays -- coming from outside the solar system
Anomalous Cosmic Rays -- coming from the interstellar space at the edge of the heliopause
Solar Energetic Particles -- associated with solar flares and other energetic solar events

The term "cosmic rays" used to include X-rays and gamma rays.
The relative numbers of different isotopes found in the galaxy are established by the life cycle of massive stars. Star formation, evolution and explosion results in the creation of many of the heavier isotopes found in space. The process is shown in the figure below.

In a part of the galaxy where the composition of the interstellar gas is much like that of our own solar system (a), a cloud of gas collapses under the influence of its own gravity, and creates a new star (b). Inside the star (c), fusion converts some of the original hydrogen and helium into particles like carbon-12 and oxygen-16. At the same time, the carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen nuclei that were originally present in the star's fuel are converted into heavier, neutron-rich nuclei, like neon-22 and magnesium-25.

When this burning has exhausted all of the nuclear fuel in the core of the star, the star explodes as a supernova (d). The shock wave generated by the explosion produces additional heavy nuclei and ejects most of these products of nucleosynthesis back into the interstellar gas.

Repetition of these events in each generation of stars steadily enriches the interstellar gas in carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen, and in heavy nuclei with an excess of neutrons.

Some of the nuclei in the gas are accelerated to cosmic ray speeds, possibly by the shock waves from supernovae (e). Cosmic ray acceleration could also occur directly as the supernova is ejecting matter into interstellar space, as in (d). "
-End of Article


Just because a type of energy you talk about exists, it doesn't mean that your speculative fiction regarding potential use is the truth.  Besides, I prefer my cosmic and gamma ray stories from Marvel:






Bakari

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2013, 10:57:15 AM »
There was a great show on PBS last night talking about the (seemingly quixotic) quest for truly neutral energy production (nothing like our loon is babbling about in this thread).  I had precious little hope that a hydrogen fuel cell would be a viable option given the Hindenburg, but great strides are being made in trapping a lot of hydrogen under a whole lot less pressure - by using chicken feathers (which, when burned, become super absorbent and can trap boatloads of hydrogen atoms efficiently).  I kid you not....  There was also discussion about bacteria that can produce gasoline-like-fuel rather than converting fossil fuels to gasoline (and adding a lot of carbon to the atmosphere in the process).  It was a fascinating program.  Anyone else catch it?

The reason I left hydrogen off the list is because hydrogen is not a fuel source.  Its a battery.  There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen we can "mine" for less energy than it takes to extract and purify it (other than petroleum, which is, well, petroleum).
If we actually end up figuring out the hurdles around storage density it may be a fantastic battery, but it is still just a storage medium, not a fuel.

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2013, 03:46:17 PM »
Free your chains, lets go with this and calculate how much energy you could get from cosmic rays if you had a panel to collect them and convert them to energy. Other people were mentioning the amount of energy you can get from sunshine at 700 watts/meter^2 on the earths surface. so lets look at what we get:

The best source I found for info on cosmic rays comes from the Pierre Auger Observatory which studies high energy particles: http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html
If someone can find a better source I'd love to use it.

First off, how much energy does an average cosmic ray have?  http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html#energy
10^9 to 10^20 electron volts

Second how many cosmic rays are we talking about per square meter? http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html#how_many
10,000/second @ 10^9 eV and 1/second @ 10^12

So if we put these together https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2810%5E9+electron+volts%29+*+10000+per+second+to+kilowatts
looks like we end up with
1.6 x 10^-9 kW / meter or 1.6 microwatts per meter. Compared with the 700 WATTS per meter you'd get with solar. You may be able to harvest some energy, but to power your home you'd need an area the size of a small state!

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2013, 07:35:47 PM »
Free your chains, lets go with this and calculate how much energy you could get from cosmic rays if you had a panel to collect them and convert them to energy. Other people were mentioning the amount of energy you can get from sunshine at 700 watts/meter^2 on the earths surface. so lets look at what we get:

The best source I found for info on cosmic rays comes from the Pierre Auger Observatory which studies high energy particles: http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html
If someone can find a better source I'd love to use it.

First off, how much energy does an average cosmic ray have?  http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html#energy
10^9 to 10^20 electron volts

Second how many cosmic rays are we talking about per square meter? http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html#how_many
10,000/second @ 10^9 eV and 1/second @ 10^12

So if we put these together https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2810%5E9+electron+volts%29+*+10000+per+second+to+kilowatts
looks like we end up with
1.6 x 10^-9 kW / meter or 1.6 microwatts per meter. Compared with the 700 WATTS per meter you'd get with solar. You may be able to harvest some energy, but to power your home you'd need an area the size of a small state!

This is fantastic. Thank you. I love science and math and actually figuring shit out. And as in this case it's even better when someone else does all the work. Again, thank you for bringing some science, math and sanity to this discussion.

hybrid

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2013, 11:58:30 PM »
There was a great show on PBS last night talking about the (seemingly quixotic) quest for truly neutral energy production (nothing like our loon is babbling about in this thread).  I had precious little hope that a hydrogen fuel cell would be a viable option given the Hindenburg, but great strides are being made in trapping a lot of hydrogen under a whole lot less pressure - by using chicken feathers (which, when burned, become super absorbent and can trap boatloads of hydrogen atoms efficiently).  I kid you not....  There was also discussion about bacteria that can produce gasoline-like-fuel rather than converting fossil fuels to gasoline (and adding a lot of carbon to the atmosphere in the process).  It was a fascinating program.  Anyone else catch it?

The reason I left hydrogen off the list is because hydrogen is not a fuel source.  Its a battery.  There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen we can "mine" for less energy than it takes to extract and purify it (other than petroleum, which is, well, petroleum).
If we actually end up figuring out the hurdles around storage density it may be a fantastic battery, but it is still just a storage medium, not a fuel.

..... and not nearly as sexy as gamma rays.  Don't leave the best parts out.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Free Energy, suppressed before with bribes of Money. But we are MMM!!
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 12:51:16 PM »
nawhite, I like your thinking too!

Now here is where it gets a lot more interesting... "Moss: You best put seat belts on your ears, Roy, 'cause I'm going to take them for the ride of their life!" ~IT Crowd

Tesla coils. Where do they get their Energy from? Isn't it just High Voltage, High Frequency, low amp wireless power transfer? Oh wait that's what the transformer is about, but then what are tesla coils about?

Part 1 of 2.

The inventions of Nikola Tesla are numerous. He invented radio, teleautomatics (remote control technology), poly-phase alternating current, the induction motor, and many other innovations that established the foundation for our modern civilization. However, the true significance of his greatest discovery - the "Tesla Coil" - goes mostly unrecognized. This tool provides a way for humanity to tap into the wheelwork of our universe--what many describe as the "aether." (Cosmic Ray Energy? )

There are many misconceptions about Tesla coils and their intended use. The light shows that can be produced by them are spectacular, but these stunning visual displays have little to do with their true function and capabilities. In addition, many people consider them as nothing more than high voltage transformers. But a Tesla coil is not a conventional transformer and does not utilize magnetic induction.

Tesla coils have capabilities beyond even the highest voltage transformers of our day, because they are something far different. Their emissions of longitudinal impulses can exceed the speed of light, can penetrate all known materials (including Faraday cages), travel great distances without their intensity diminishing, power remote devices, and allow for "overunity" gains of energy.

Radiant Blasts

When an electrical switch in an electrical circuit is opened or closed, a spark of high voltage can be created. In Tesla's day, engineers and workmen had to be very careful of this phenomenon when working with high voltage DC generators. A sudden closure of a circuit being powered from a dynamo capable of generating a few thousand Watts, could produce electrical discharges of several hundred thousand volts. These discharges were often fatal to those who were exposed to them. This phenomenon interested Tesla, and he began to research what he called, "disruptive discharges."

In his lab, Tesla would utilize a dynamo to produce very quick pulses of high voltage direct current. He noticed these pulses could completely vaporize thin wires. In addition, these pulses could produce what seemed like pressure waves that would induce stinging sensations. At first he thought these blasts waves were composed of tiny particles of the vaporized metal. This possibility was ruled out when he noticed nothing could shield them, including glass or even copper sheets. If these were high speed particles of some sort the glass should have shielded him from them, and if they were purely electrical the metal should have blocked them. However, they penetrated any barrier!

He continued testing with larger wires, faster pulses, and with higher voltages. Before long, he started to gain an understanding of the variables that controlled the intensity of these disruptive discharges. Eventually, he did away with the wire and utilized a simple spark gap. By increasing the voltage from the dynamo and shortening the length of the pulses he could make these discharges much more powerful. He could feel them from all the way across the room!

Many more variables came into play. By adding one or more capacitors (he called them condensers) between the dynamo and spark gap, he could intensity the effect. Additionally, he was able to prevent a "back rush" of current across the spark gap with a variety of techniques. This was important because any flow of current reduced the maximum intensity of the disruptive discharge. As one example, he used a magnet to rapidly quench or magnetically "blow out" the arc across the electrodes to prevent such current flow. He could also use this system to increase the frequency of his discharges. In other setups, he put the spark gap in oil with a high dielectric value or had heated air flow through the spark gap. There were benefits and drawbacks to each method.


Decoupling Aether and Electron Current

A very interesting effect was creating these powerful discharges. When the high voltage input jumped across the spark gap the conducting material's resistance created a delay that would prevent current (electron flow) from instantly flowing. With sufficiently rapid pulses, current could be completely prevented from flowing in the conductive material. This would produce a decoupling of the current and voltage. The pure voltage potential became untangled or unbounded from the current, and would produce a shock wave that would move out in all directions nominally perpendicular to the spark gap.

It is theorized by many that electrical voltage is in fact a form of "aether" bonded to the current flow in a conductive material. The aether was thought to be a gaseous atmosphere of tiny (potentially much smaller and less massive than the electron), energetic (traveling at speeds faster than the speed of light), and penetrating (capable of traveling through solid matter) that fills our universe. Tesla and other men of science considered the aether to be the medium in which electromagnetic waves flow. Some individuals theorized it could be the true source of gravity, what produces radioactive decay in elements, and the fundamental "stuff" of which all matter in the universe is composed.

Tesla's disruptive discharges produced longitudinal waves in the aether. Unlike transverse waves that vary in amplitude up and down, longitudinal waves only move in the direction of propagation. They could be described as a series of compressions and rarefactions in the atmosphere of aether. These longitudinal waves are sometimes called, "scalar waves." However, this is not a precisely correct description. Technically, the term "scalar" describes a constant value that does not change. A longitudinal wave is periodically expanding and contracting in the direction of propagation, so this term does not fit. Despite the inconsistency, the terms "scalar wave" and "longitudinal wave" are used interchangeably by many.


Safety Enhancements

Over the course of his investigations, Tesla realized that the duration and frequency of his pulses were of tremendous importance in terms of safety. Slower rates of these discharges would produce stinging and painful effects. Moderate rates of discharges eliminated the stinging, but could produce a thermal sensation. If properly controlled, this thermal sensation would not burn, but could actually be pleasant and therapeutic. At very high rates of discharges the stinging and thermal effect vanished. A physical "pressure" could still be felt from the area around the spark gap, but sensations of needles or heat were gone.

At these high rates of pulsing, the visual arcs and streamers of pure voltage from his device were actually safe to interact with (at least that is what he concluded). In many experiments and demonstrations, he allowed these pulses of purified aether to flow across his body. No detectable harm came to him when utilizing these high frequencies. This energy could flow through him and power light bulbs. If traditional current had been flowing he would have been killed, but this flow of energy was truly something unique.

Tesla was still utilizing high voltage dynamos and spark gaps which were an obvious safety concern. The electrical energy running through them could easily electrocute a person. He took great care during his testing and experiments to avoid accidents. Anyone trying to replicate Tesla's work or experiments should be aware of the dangerous electrical forces involved. Although at certain high pulse rates the radiant energy produced was relatively harmless, the setups to create the discharges were still potentially lethal.


Continual Development

These disruptive discharges emitting longitudinal waves in the aether could produce many unique effects. Tesla could power a light bulb by connecting it to his device with a single thin wire or sometimes in combination with a metal plate. In addition, when placing a plate of metal close to the discharges from the spark gap, he could see electrical arcs and streamers dancing on it. He could also hold a capacitor in proximity to the spark gap and charge it to a very high capacity. In fact, he could charge them until their capacity was exceeded and an explosion would occur. Considering all of these effects, he realized this technology would allow for the wireless transmission of power.

By this time, Tesla had already succeeded in developing conventional poly-phase alternating current transmission systems. They were being implemented in areas such as those near the Niagara Falls power station, where he designed the generators that converted the energy of the falling water into electricity. He felt that a wireless transmission system could exceed his previous accomplishment.

During interviews and in his writings, Tesla described how his new discoveries could be used to power the entire world. To accomplish this, he would need to improve his technology even further. There were still additional optimizations that could be made.

One of these improvements was the design of what we would today call a "Tesla Coil." He designed and patented a setup in which the "disruptive discharges" flowed across the surface of two bars of a conductor. This was the "primary" of the setup. These bars would wrap loosely (only a few turns) around a "secondary" coil that would be positioned inside the diameter of the primary. This "secondary" was composed of a flat "pancake" style core of many more turns than the primary. The wire used in the secondary was much thinner than in the primary. He matched the total weight of the primary and secondary windings so the two would be in a state of resonance. One end of the secondary could be grounded and the other end of the secondary would rise above the coil.

The impulses from his spark gap would flow over the surface of the primary and then across the windings of the secondary. In doing so, the voltage would climb tremendously. Huge discharges would appear at the end of the secondary wire. The already magnified voltage produced by the disruptive discharge was being increased even more! Somehow the longitudinal waves or impulses of "aether" were concentrating on the surface of the secondary windings and magnifying or focusing themselves.

Gerry Vassilatos, author of "Lost Science" and "Secrets of Cold War Technology" (both of which are excellent sources of information on Tesla's aether technology) stresses that although Tesla's system increased the output voltage, it was not in anyway a conventional transformer. He describes it as a system using electrostatic induction. Gerry and other researchers have made many valid distinctions between Tesla's system and a traditional transformer.

  • There was no current flowing through his primary and secondary of his setup. Tesla made great efforts to prevent such electron flow. Traditional transformers absolutely require electron flow.
  • Due to the fact there was no electron flow there was no magnetic induction, which is the principle by which transformers operate.
  • The primary and secondary of his setup were loosely coupled, in that there was a significant space filled with air between his primary and secondary coils. The primary and secondaries in traditional transformers are usually tightly coupled for efficient operation.
  • Tesla coils can be made of non-conductive materials. This eliminates the possibility of any conventional transformer effect utilizing magnetic induction.
  • The flow of voltage or aether would not follow the path of least electrical resistance. This should be the case if current was actually in the circuit and electrons were moving. However, the radiant impulses of Tesla's system would ignore almost zero resistance shorts to flow across higher resistance paths across resistive elements such as light bulbs. An example of this is Tesla's "hairpin" circuit.


Getting Ready for Broadcasting

Tesla continued to prepare for his global power broadcasting system by further developing his technology. For example, he discovered by placing a round conductive sphere on the elevated end of the secondary winding the impulses were magnified and more evenly broadcast. Another improvement was made by adding additional coils to the secondary or changing the shape of the secondary coil. In one setup, above the "pancake" portion of the secondary was an additional coil in the shape of a solenoid. One of his most effective secondary shapes was that of the cone. It provided a tremendous increase in voltage.

The shapes of his coils were not the only improvements he tested. He would place the secondary of a system in liquified air which super-cooled the copper winding. For some reason, this amplified the voltage increasing effect without inducing an unwanted current (electron) flow. By utilizing combinations of these methods he was able to produce gigantic outputs of several million volts.

Of course to broadcast power it had to be received. He designed a variety of receivers. Some of these receivers were composed of metallic plates. When the longitudinal waves impacted them a current would be induced that could power lights or motors. Tesla actually discovered that he could focus the output of his device into a narrow beam utilizing a special tube. This allowed him to specifically direct the longitudinal waves in the aether at target plates. Interestingly, after such a beam had been active for an extended period of time, he could turn off his apparatus, but the flow of aether would remain. He could place another receiver in the path of the beam and power light bulbs without the device being turned on!

Apparently, the aether has a property that allows for a sort of momentum to accumulate. Once the aether is flowing or pulsing it starts to build up an inertia or a self sustaining effect. In many tests, his systems would continue transmitting power after his apparatus was cut off from input power. Additionally, sometimes an illuminating glow around his setups would continually grow and expand. This happened around his giant transmitter towers in Colorado and New York. The longer he left his transmitters on, the further the column of light would expand. In one experiment, he connected his transmitter to a balloon and allowed it to float in the sky. Over a period of time, the glow that originally followed the line to the balloon expanded and illuminated the entire area.

Tesla also realized if he built receivers composed of similarly designed coil setups, they could resonate with the broadcasting unit. This condition resulted in more power being "received" by these units from the transmitter and/or allowed them to collect the longitudinal waves and magnifying them once again. Hence, a gain of energy from "aether" may be experienced both in the transmitter and receiver coils. In the receiver, what would normally be the inner coil of thin wire becomes the primary. The longitudinal waves then flow out to the thicker copper windings, and then into loads connected across them. They could then power light bulbs, motors, or other devices.

He was able to transmit large amounts of power to receiver units over many miles of distance. In one experiment, he powered a small building full of one hundred watt light bulbs from a distance of over twenty seven miles. Motors and heating elements were also powered.