Fasting

[lifejoy]

Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html

[arebelspy]

Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html

The key problem: why trust that one person?

Also it focuses on fasting for weight loss (and how it may not help). What if that's not your purpose at all?

[neophyte]

Off topic:  Every time I am scanning the page quickly and see this thread, I think the topic is 'farting.'  That's all; carry on.

[lifejoy]

Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html

The key problem: why trust that one person?

Also it focuses on fasting for weight loss (and how it may not help). What if that's not your purpose at all?

Good point! I dunno!

I trust Joel Furhman cause I'm reading his book Eat to Live and it seems to be based upon sound research.

[carozy]

I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting.  I will be trying to do this in the near future.

You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc.  Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls.  Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber.  So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down.  The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.

By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).

Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.

[carozy]

There is a place call True North in CA that does doctor supervised fasts.

I've heard it's helpful for people with colitis or Crohn's disease because it gives their gut time to heal up.  But then they have to also be careful of what they eat afterwards.  As I understand dairy and meat, and maybe some other certain foods can be problematic for them.  But I am not an expert, that's just what I've heard as far as benefits of doctor supervised fasting for some people with those diseases.

[Dulcimina]

I've lost 9lbs fasting on alternate days since August. To be honest, I haven't noticed any other physical benefits. But it's certainly mustachian for my grocery budget as  I've dropped from 21 meals/week to only 11 max.  On fasting days, I eat up to 500 calories. Although I'm allowed to eat normally on the other days, I don't have much of an appetite, so end up eating only two meals and maybe a snack. 

I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting.  I will be trying to do this in the near future.

You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc.  Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls.  Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber.  So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down.  The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.

By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).

Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.

The diet-heart hypothesis is outdated/incomplete. See for example http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy and http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/02/07/eggs-dont-cause-heart-attacks-sugar/#close and references cited in each article.

[carozy]

I've lost 9lbs fasting on alternate days since August. To be honest, I haven't noticed any other physical benefits. But it's certainly mustachian for my grocery budget as  I've dropped from 21 meals/week to only 11 max.  On fasting days, I eat up to 500 calories. Although I'm allowed to eat normally on the other days, I don't have much of an appetite, so end up eating only two meals and maybe a snack. 

I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting.  I will be trying to do this in the near future.

You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc.  Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls.  Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber.  So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down.  The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.

By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).

Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.

The diet-heart hypothesis is outdated/incomplete. See for example http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy and http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/02/07/eggs-dont-cause-heart-attacks-sugar/#close and references cited in each article.

I disagree with those articles.  Plenty of doctors dispute the paleo diet, eggs, cholesterol, saturated fat.  How would you account for Dr. McDougall's program results?  Or the pictures of cleaner arteries from the Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease book (Dr. Esselstyn), among others?

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2013nl/aug/travis.htm

and www.drmcdougall.com for more info

[popsy13]

Fasting helps in cleaning of the body and tests your patience on over eating. You can do do fasting after 3 or 4 months.

[Cromacster]

I personally think fasting for physical health reasons is nonsense.  If you want to do good things for your physical health eat properly for your body and activity levels and lift a weight or two.

Personally, when I go too long without eating my brain shuts down and my energy levels go way down.  What fun is that?

If you are doing it as a mental exercise or for some other purpose...whatever blows your skirt up.

[Cromacster]

Fasting helps in cleaning of the body and tests your patience on over eating. You can do do fasting after 3 or 4 months.

Could you elaborate how fasting cleans the body?

[3Mer]

I follow Ori Hofmekler's Warrior Diet way of eating.  Highly recommend giving it a try.  For me it's not a diet, but a way of life.  Undereating and/or fasting during the day, and one big meal at night, with as high of quality foods as possible.   

[simonsez]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30601864/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/

This article re-piqued my interest in fasting, especially about autophagy, blood pressure, and self-reported emotional and physical health.  I'm not interested in the 250 calories of rice + veggies followed by an enema per se (Buchinger) but I am having unlimited water plus daily vitamins and am keeping a moderate level of exercise going (walking, riding the bike, 50 pushups, 50 body squats).

I haven't had a fast of longer than 2 days in several years.  Weight loss might be reason #7 (out of 7) that I'm currently trying a multi-day fast.

As of 12:45pm central time in the US on 10/26 I'm at ~41 hours (last time I had a calorie was around 8pm on 10/24). 

Yesterday evening I was hungry but wanted to push past to see if it changed.  I woke up this morning feeling more refreshed than I have in awhile.  The mental clarity was especially notable and I did not have any hunger pangs.  This tracks with experiences in the past - once you get over the hump of the first day it's enlightening/profound how I feel.  The spiritual/mental side of the fast is what I'm most interested in at this stage in my life.  It's wonderful to explore my headspace and just evaluate my "normal life" with what feels like less bias.  Also, I haven't flexed my "self-control muscles" in awhile and it feels good to set a difficult (for me, at least) goal and achieve it.  Makes me appreciate just how awesome modern living is with constant access to food.

If I feel dizzy or something is off, I'll eat but for now I'm going to keep fasting.  Something in the 3-5 day range sounds good to me but we shall see.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

I water fast for a week or so about twice a year and have been doing so for... dunno, a while.  At least 4-5 years, maybe longer.  I don't recall exactly when I started.

The trick for longer fasting is figuring out electrolytes - sodium, potassium, magnesium.  About 1000mg sodium and potassium per 32oz water seems about right - pure water tends to go through me in a hurry while fasting (you'll know it when it happens), whereas the salt mix is much more stable.  I also tend to cheat a bit and use either some zero calorie flavoring or LMNT salt packets at times.  I've had problems keeping the electrolyte balance in the past, but I think I have it better dialed in now.  You also don't need prodigious quantities of water - that tends to flush you out, to include useful stuff like electrolytes you want to keep in.

Why on earth bump a decade old thread, though?

[simonsez]

I water fast for a week or so about twice a year and have been doing so for... dunno, a while.  At least 4-5 years, maybe longer.  I don't recall exactly when I started.

The trick for longer fasting is figuring out electrolytes - sodium, potassium, magnesium.  About 1000mg sodium and potassium per 32oz water seems about right - pure water tends to go through me in a hurry while fasting (you'll know it when it happens), whereas the salt mix is much more stable.  I also tend to cheat a bit and use either some zero calorie flavoring or LMNT salt packets at times.  I've had problems keeping the electrolyte balance in the past, but I think I have it better dialed in now.  You also don't need prodigious quantities of water - that tends to flush you out, to include useful stuff like electrolytes you want to keep in.

Why on earth bump a decade old thread, though?

At what point would you say the electrolytes offer benefit?  Like if you were doing a 3 day fast, would you bother or do you reserve that for only longer fasts?  How do you ingest the potassium?  Sodium I can understand you would do some simple math with NaCl to get to 1000 mg of sodium but what are you doing for the potassium?  I see that potassium gluconate pills are common but most only seem to be in the neighborhood of 100 mg.  Would you take 10 of those?! Seems like a lot.  How did you arrive at 1000 mg?  Was that based on how you feel or you read some medical literature on it somewhere?

Do you ever measure your BP before and after or have a physical or panel or anything?

As for bumping an old thread - it has useful info in it.  Why would I start a new thread and ignore the old stuff?  People have been fasting, either on purpose or by necessity, for as long as humans have been a species.  What's relevant to fasting back then is still relevant now so I'm not worried about several years in a forum.  If bumping a thread that's still relevant is somehow taboo, I'm surprised you a) responded to it and b) are having a hard time conceiving why another human might glean value from older threads.

[Just Joe]

Hmm I'm a big fan of listening to your body. Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not. Never understood the point of fasting from a health standpoint. I can understand the stoic argument but don't really pursue it.

Assuming your body and brain work as intended. Some people have a snack monster within them and struggle.

I see evidence of my metabolism slowing down when I skip too many meals too often.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

At what point would you say the electrolytes offer benefit?  Like if you were doing a 3 day fast, would you bother or do you reserve that for only longer fasts?

I just add them in by default when I'm fasting.  Sodium/potassium deficiency isn't pleasant, so I try to avoid it.  Three days is starting to get into when I would recommend it, though you're probably OK without.  I just find it makes things far easier and smoother than without.

How do you ingest the potassium?

The standard No-Salt you find in grocery stores is potassium, ~640mg per 1/4 tsp.

Do you ever measure your BP before and after or have a physical or panel or anything?

No, I just pay attention to my body.  My resting heart rate drops down during fasting, but not substantially so - just noticeably.

[partgypsy]

20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.

[simonsez]

20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.

That's interesting - key phrase is perhaps 'without malnutrition'.  I'm certainly not looking to lose muscle mass or put me more at risk for something major.  Autophagy seems to be a possible explanation and is something I hope will be have a lot more research devoted to it.  We have a pretty good idea that not enough sleep is a HUGE factor for Alzheimer's and other neural breakdown.  So whatever processes on the body's to-do list that occur after a decent amount of sleep (e.g. the body might do 100 different 'maintenance' tasks during sleep and there is some type of prioritization, maybe the body doesn't always get to tasks #95-100 unless it has 8+ hours of sleep, the exact number will be different for everyone but that's a general idea) - I liken that to the overall body when it's going for a time without food and the physical body "gets the message" to not prioritize digestion for the moment or as much and instead repair misfolded/broken/damaged proteins/cells in the brain, liver, kidneys, etc.  It just sounds like it would be good for mitigating cancer risks and makes sense that mammals have extended life spans when they undergo periods of fasting.

Personally, I think the 'Sober October' moniker seems like a lame but effective enough memory device for me to do a multi-day fast once a year there while also abstaining for other potential vices (tobacco, THC, alcohol, caffeine, etc.).  Admittedly, I have plenty of calories in storage for this.  It does seem easier to do (not as grouchy nor hungry) when your diet is not as carb-heavy, i.e. can more readily consume ketones.  Even if it's all garbage and there is ZERO benefit to fasting with respect to cancer, longevity - I like the practice.  It's humbling.  It's harder mentally than it is physically.  It's not easy and feels good to accomplish by going without - something seemingly so trivial with so many calories at our fingertips.  The last thing I want to do is take for granted how easy our lives are today in terms of access to food. And as mentioned, it's a bonus side effect that many biomarkers improve.  I don't see a real downside to doing a multi-day fast once every blue moon.

[LennStar]

Not having read the thread, I just put dwon my 2 cents:

Cent 1: Long time fasting (made with doctor overwatch) certainly can make you more healthy, not only because of weight loss. That has long been known, and ever more parts are proven.

Cent 2: Short time asting - eating only once at one day a week for example - is something that makes you a lot more aware of your body and also helps slimming down. After a day without food, your stomach will feel full with a significant less amount of food. Don't waste that opportunity! It also helps to get cravings under control.

Ah, cent 3, sorry: You shoudl definitely try sugar fasting. Depending on person (and addiction I guess) it takes somewhere between 2-4 weeks until you feel a decisive difference. "normal" sweet stuff will be too sweet or even a bit repulsive. You will feel better in various ways afterwards, but the days 3-10 are hard. As with all addictions, if you go without the stuff you get nasty symptoms. 

[Metalcat]

20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.

That's interesting - key phrase is perhaps 'without malnutrition'.  I'm certainly not looking to lose muscle mass or put me more at risk for something major.  Autophagy seems to be a possible explanation and is something I hope will be have a lot more research devoted to it.  We have a pretty good idea that not enough sleep is a HUGE factor for Alzheimer's and other neural breakdown.  So whatever processes on the body's to-do list that occur after a decent amount of sleep (e.g. the body might do 100 different 'maintenance' tasks during sleep and there is some type of prioritization, maybe the body doesn't always get to tasks #95-100 unless it has 8+ hours of sleep, the exact number will be different for everyone but that's a general idea) - I liken that to the overall body when it's going for a time without food and the physical body "gets the message" to not prioritize digestion for the moment or as much and instead repair misfolded/broken/damaged proteins/cells in the brain, liver, kidneys, etc.  It just sounds like it would be good for mitigating cancer risks and makes sense that mammals have extended life spans when they undergo periods of fasting.

Personally, I think the 'Sober October' moniker seems like a lame but effective enough memory device for me to do a multi-day fast once a year there while also abstaining for other potential vices (tobacco, THC, alcohol, caffeine, etc.).  Admittedly, I have plenty of calories in storage for this.  It does seem easier to do (not as grouchy nor hungry) when your diet is not as carb-heavy, i.e. can more readily consume ketones.  Even if it's all garbage and there is ZERO benefit to fasting with respect to cancer, longevity - I like the practice.  It's humbling.  It's harder mentally than it is physically.  It's not easy and feels good to accomplish by going without - something seemingly so trivial with so many calories at our fingertips.  The last thing I want to do is take for granted how easy our lives are today in terms of access to food. And as mentioned, it's a bonus side effect that many biomarkers improve.  I don't see a real downside to doing a multi-day fast once every blue moon.

For most people who fast regularly, it's actually stupid easy once your body gets used to it. I very comfortably eat only every second day and could very easily go for multiple days, but I like my alternative rhythm.

If anything, eating days are more of a mental game because I'm hungry every few hours and it's really annoying. It feels like living with a whiny child who demands food every few hours.

On fasting days I can just happily go about my day doing whatever I want, not having to deal with the constant distraction of getting hungry every few hours.

I only get hungry if I eat. If I don't eat, I don't get hungry. So eating is far more high maintenance than fasting. I also get tired and sluggish when I eat, so I tend to schedule my more active and productive days for fasting days.

Eating days are when I write papers. Lol.

[GuitarStv]

I've read enough papers now about fasting now that there's no doubt in my mind that it has some health benefits.

But every time I try to do it on a regular basis I run into a problem.  I record my performance in the sports that I take part in (weight/reps for weight lifting, time/distance/avg heart rate for cycling, number of rounds/total mat time for Jiu Jitsu.  Fasting noticeably reduces your ability to perform physical tasks at a high level - pretty much right across the board.  Speed, power, and endurance all seem to take a hit, and I am doing some sort of sport for about two hours a day - so fasting doesn't work for me.

This has made me wonder though if you get at least some similar benefits from training hard to the point that your body starts to run out of fuel as you do through fasting.  In both cases you're forcing the body to deal with suboptimal calories.

[brandon1827]

I'm fascinated with the concept of fasting for longer periods. I've been intermittent fasting for years now and it has absolutely been a game changer for me in terms of managing my weight. I think it can get somewhat complicated when you factor in sports...namely endurance sports. I have been a half-marathon runner for years and recently branched out into triathlons. I do okay intermittent fasting with my running, swimming, & cycling workouts, but I'm a bit apprehensive about trying to do a full-on day or multi-day fast because I believe it will tank my performance. Fueling for endurance sport is an entire science unto itself and most of the literature that I've read doesn't even recommend IF while training...much less fasting for 24 hours or more. However, I still want to try it at some point just to observe the effects on my body and mind

[lifeandlimb]

Bodies are so individual that you're going to continue to get different reactions from different people. You might never know what IF is like for you until you try it yourself.

For example: I tried intermittent fasting (eating window of around 12-6pm each day) for a month or so in 2019. I lost weight quickly, but that also came with dizziness, wild blood sugar fluctuations, moodiness, under-performance in my sport, followed by a series of frustrating new soft tissue injuries. I stopped because ultimately it was dragging me down more than benefitting me.

I know plenty of people who have tried (or who still do it) whose only side effect has been bad breath. That said, none of them that I knew were quite like me (extremely active low-BMI female with history of anemia and irregular blood sugar). It was also likely that IF ended up calorie restricting me to a level that was unhealthy for someone of my already-small size. My takeaway is you can't apply the same blanket solution to very different individuals. And if you are going to experiment with a diet, take in your circumstances, move carefully, and consider consulting a nutritionist who can get your whole picture and look out for your health.

[Metalcat]

I've read enough papers now about fasting now that there's no doubt in my mind that it has some health benefits.

But every time I try to do it on a regular basis I run into a problem.  I record my performance in the sports that I take part in (weight/reps for weight lifting, time/distance/avg heart rate for cycling, number of rounds/total mat time for Jiu Jitsu.  Fasting noticeably reduces your ability to perform physical tasks at a high level - pretty much right across the board.  Speed, power, and endurance all seem to take a hit, and I am doing some sort of sport for about two hours a day - so fasting doesn't work for me.

This has made me wonder though if you get at least some similar benefits from training hard to the point that your body starts to run out of fuel as you do through fasting.  In both cases you're forcing the body to deal with suboptimal calories.

What my body could do fasted in the first several months is radically different from what my body could do after 6 months of IF, and even then at 12-18 months I was still adapting. There's absolutely no way I could only eat every second day at 6 months, but that's when I was able to start doing OMAD, which I absolutely could not do comfortably before then.

I now much, much prefer to do any exercise fasted. Many long term IF people get to this point. Your body gets more and more adapted to metabolically functioning without food.

I was definitely not using ketones efficiently for the first 6 months. This was freakishly self-evident because I smelled fucking atrocious, like a combo of burnt popcorn and nail polish remover as ketones were oozing out of my pores. It was seriously disgusting. My body switched to making ketones incredibly easily, but wasn't efficient at actually using them for awhile.

I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.

[GuitarStv]

I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.

Damn, where do I sign up??!  :P

[brandon1827]

I now much, much prefer to do any exercise fasted. Many long term IF people get to this point. Your body gets more and more adapted to metabolically functioning without food.

100%. I get up and go to the gym before work. My eating window stops at 8:00 p.m. So I'm working out 9-10 hours later with no food. In the beginning this was tough for me, but now that I've been doing IF for years I have trouble even trying to fuel before a workout. The flip side for me is that I'm now so accustomed to working out without food that it has caused me some problems on race day when I need fuel for a 2-4 hour plus event but cannot stand eating pre-race, lol.

[Metalcat]

I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.

Damn, where do I sign up??!  :P

Apparently my experience was rare, but some degree of stink, or at least stinky breath is pretty common while adjusting.

But note, I was prescribed IF by my neurologist, so I was highly motivated, and being stinky is probably one of the least bothersome side effects I've had over the last 5 years of prescriptions from neurologists.

[simonsez]

I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.

Damn, where do I sign up??!  :P

Apparently my experience was rare, but some degree of stink, or at least stinky breath is pretty common while adjusting.

But note, I was prescribed IF by my neurologist, so I was highly motivated, and being stinky is probably one of the least bothersome side effects I've had over the last 5 years of prescriptions from neurologists.

9-10 years ago was the last time I did a fast (something beyond IF) and I remember being simultaneously thrilled and disgusted in the shower.  I was very much a disciple of a low carb diet and had been for quite awhile, like <50g of carbs per day and that was only from leafy greens and the occasional berry.  Lot of protein and fats.  Anyway, I did a multi-day fast and immediately while showering after a moderate workout on the first day I could just smell the ketone vapor emanating off my body in the shower.  It was like, "Yes, it's happening!!" but also "Hmm, I might not be able to be intimate with my partner anytime soon."

A couple of trips to wreck some good habits coupled with some mild work stress and ... boom, now I'm middle-aged and wondering where the time went and it's time to refocus on health.  I have not great family histories with certain types of health and just need to be proactive if I want to live a long time alongside my wife (whose mother has seemingly not aged a damn day in the ~17 years I've known her and is in great shape for 69 and expect her daughter to also live a long time).  I know I am addicted to carbs and remember taking a sip of a soda back in my healthy days and being amazed at just how unbearingly sweet it was.  Now, it tastes great and that's a problem.  Stupid primitive wiring, I shouldn't have access to it this much!  I need to be sustainable, though.  I can't be a maniac or it won't work for me.

Get up and go for a walk, preferably outside in the sunshine, dummy.
Don't eat when you're full, dummy.
Don't drink sugarwater in its various forms, dummy.
Eat protein early in a meal and not sandwiched or surrounded by carbs, you'll feel fuller quicker.

That's just my inner dialogue but it is so cool to listen to the body and know what works for you.

[Metalcat]

Ketone vapour, yeah, that's a great way to describe it.

You're right though, as gaggingly gross as it was, it was kind of cool to have such a strong indicator or my body doing something different.

But I was VERY happy when it finally went away. Although I was perpetually paranoid that I had just become nose-blind to it and I was just walking around peacefully ignorant of my own fumes.

[partgypsy]

Life and limb, yes I had very similar experiences for many years. I was borderline anemic, had positional hypotension, and in general BP on the lower side. So when I did lent yes esp towards the end I would feel wiped out, and if my blood was tested around then i would be actually anemic. I was never an athlete but most of my life I didn't drive so primarily walked as my transport. Ironically, now that I'm officially post menopausal, this past lent was the easiest one so far.  I now have a different body, and have to figure out how to take care of this body. What seems to be true: less carbs, less but more high quality foods, at least some time in sunshine every day, and more swimming vs high impact stuff. I still love dancing but may pay for it the next day. And I can prob do fasting now whereas before I really couldn't. Eta here is a review article on calorie restriction. It doesn't require fasting per se, but that is an easy way to accomplish it. In fact most zoos now have many animals except grazers not eat every day bc it is healthier and mimics more how they actually live in the wild (added an article about cr but most behind a paywall so deleted it).

[Just Joe]

Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.

I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.

[GilesMM]

All the science I have seen showed fasting is quite good for your health.

[davisgang90]

I've been doing IF combined with low-carb for about a year and a half. I lost 40 pounds pretty quickly and now I only IF 12-14 hours a day vice 16-18 I used to do.

I don't measure my carbs super close, but I only eat low carb Keto bread for bread and concentrate on protein, fat and green leafy veggies.

I've also been walking 6 miles or so each day, including 2.5 first thing in the morning. I think doing that religiously has had a big impact as well.

The research I've done seems to indicate that combining IF with low carb gives you a better weight loss outcome than doing just one by itself.

I'd like to lose another 10 pounds, but I'm pretty happy with losing the weight and keeping it off!

[LennStar]

I just remembered that one of the best podcasts on youtube had an episode about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tRohh0gErM

Effects of Fasting & Time Restricted Eating on Fat Loss & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #41

[PKFFW]

Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.

I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.

Usually, ketoacidosis makes a smell like the person has downed a bottle of nail-polish remover. A very common symptom is the person appearing highly inebriated.

Ketone stench is more like your usual really bad breath combined with your usual really bad body odour smell.

[Metalcat]

Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.

I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.

For me, specifically, it was very specifically a combo of burnt popcorn and nail polish remover. Sometimes more one that the other, often more burnt popcorn. And by burnt popcorn, I mean burnt microwave popcorn.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

28FEB2015

I tried to cut my toenails.  My belly was in the way.  It was painfully uncomfortable.  I was sucking wind and working up a sweat.  I was disgusted with myself.  I dug an old bathroom scale out of storage and found I was 274 pounds (on narrow 5'11" frame).  I decided I HAD to lose weight.

My research (mostly articles freed from paywall behind JAMA and Lancet) showed that "dieting" simply does not work for sustainable weight loss.  Some people have luck with keto but it usually fails long term and is not heart healthy.  What apparently DOES work is Intermittent Fasting (some evidence pure fasting is also good).  I tried it out and today I vacillate between 200 and 205.  IF has turned into OMAD.  If I add a day per week or at least every other week of more full fasting* I can lose weight but I'm kind of miserable.  I've been down to 184 under a period of intense discipline but found the autopilot weight of low 200# requires little effort and no psychological suffering.  My blood pressure is healthy (with meds) at that weight.  My triG and HDL/LDL are back in range, without meds. 

* A "full" fasting day for me contains scanty calories under 200 or so.  I'll often have a cheesestick in the late afternoon.  Might have half a dozen crackers.  Drink all the water, and zero calorie soda I care to. AND, this is important, sip on hot broth throughout the day, like a mad Brit who thinks he is having a spot of tea.  A 2 cup serving of vegetable broth is about 4 calories and does something psychologically for me to kill cravings.  A fast day reliably has me weigh in 24 hours later about 3 pounds lighter.  It is easier than you think to  not overeat the next day in response.

This thread has me considering doing 1 day a month of conventional fasting.  If I lost 2 pounds a month without making myself miserable, I'd be in a pretty good place a year from now!  Four times a month is not mentally something I feel capable of at this time but maybe one?