The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: arebelspy on July 14, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
-
In my recent search of being healthy and better food and stuff, I ran across people who advocate fasting.
Anybody here fast? For how long? See any benefits to it?
Anyone staunchly for/against it and have science on their side? (So many of the claims around things like that - cleaning out the toxins, yadda yadda - are hyperbole bullshit it's hard to know what to take seriously.)
-
On occasion. I find it good for my mental health more than anything. Appreciation, stoicism, and all that. There have been studies that suggest fasting every other day will extend ones life significantly, but there are many qualifiers that go along with that. It has to be done on a very regular schedule for the rest of your life, you have to start at a young age, etc., to get those benefits. Overall though it definitely won't hurt you
-
If you fast for very long, your body will go into hyper-efficient, low metabolism starvation mode. Your body will start breaking down muscle (in addition to fat) to fuel your brain in the prolonged absence of food.
For how long are you planning to fast?
-
In my recent search of being healthy and better food and stuff, I ran across people who advocate fasting.
Anybody here fast? For how long? See any benefits to it?
Anyone staunchly for/against it and have science on their side? (So many of the claims around things like that - cleaning out the toxins, yadda yadda - are hyperbole bullshit it's hard to know what to take seriously.)
I'm assuming that the stuff you ran across was Leangains, Fast-5, Warrior Diet, and maybe Berardi? You may have noticed that since you don't eat breakfast, you're pretty much already doing it.
Martin Berkhan probably compiled and researched the studies most completely, and Berardi's free pdf is a good primer.
I'm not really staunchly for or against it. The best thing the movement has done was to liberate people from thinking they needed to snack all day long to "keep their metabolism going" or whatever. I don't eat breakfast either.
-
Breakfast is smart:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/health-benefits-breakfast_n_1968248.html
-
Hmm I'm a big fan of listening to your body. Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not. Never understood the point of fasting from a health standpoint. I can understand the stoic argument but don't really pursue it.
-
You may have noticed that since you don't eat breakfast, you're pretty much already doing it.
Yes, I ran across a mini-fast (http://www.drwhitaker.com/mini-fast-overview) that was basically skipping breakfast, and I already do that. That's different from fasting for multiple days at a time though.
Breakfast is smart:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/health-benefits-breakfast_n_1968248.html
I don't do breakfast. (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/re-mustachian-breakfast-ideas/) I only eat two meals a day, and always have. I don't feel like force-feeding myself when I'm not hungry. And almost every reason they gave isn't the case with me.
Hmm I'm a big fan of listening to your body. Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not. Never understood the point of fasting from a health standpoint. I can understand the stoic argument but don't really pursue it.
Agree with every sentence of it, but I became curious of its benefits from a health standpoint, as it is advocated by some, so figured I'd ask.
-
A 3 day juice fast will show you how you eat when you get bored.
Very eye opening. Worth doing once.
Beyond that you are just losing muscle in my opinion. Detoxing the body is just hype imo as well. You could also "detox" by eating healthier foods, for example.
I have done several juice fasts, longest for 5 days. My metabolism is already sky high at like 2,500 to 3k calories per day.
Make sure there is no pulp when you juice fast, or you defeat the purpose, as pulp is food. Your stomach "turns off" on only juice. No hunger pangs that way....
-
I don't think you're going to find anything conclusive, science on all these health "hacks" is at best at the conjectural stage (and at worst non-existent). It's pretty hard to find a conscientious scientist to conduct controlled experiments on humans which involve starving yourself, even briefly, and pretty hard to find reliable test subjects to stick with the experiments over the long haul... As for epidemiological studies, they are also inconclusive as far as I know.
There are some serious studies on CRAN (caloric restriction with adequate nutrition; the Wikipedia entry on this is correct, if not outstanding), but they are not at a stage where I'd feel comfortable basing nutrition decisions on them, and they don't specifically address the issue of fasting for days.
I'm really curious about the series of health/nutrition questions you are asking. It seems that you have a very satisfactory balance, with at least one obvious potential action (addressing the posture that you called terrible), and a sound distrust for the paleo/IF/Inuitism/whatever gimmicks. Why all the questions?
[edited for clarity]
-
No particular reason, just trying to decrease some of my ignorance.
-
I have done a 1 day fast on 2 occasions, both times I "ate" only broth and fruit juice. In both cases it was because I wasn't feeling "right" and wanted to settle my abdomen. Worked, however at my very low body weight I wouldn't ever consider doing this on a regular basis. It just would lead to me losing weight.
-
I'm a big fan of fasting. Short term food fasts, spending fasts, Facebook fasts, all kinds of fasts. I think giving shit up periodically is good for the soul, just to remind us what "needs" really are, and aren't.
I food fast 16 hours very regularly (which is basically just having lunch...nothing too dramatic...I'm not a big breakfast person normally) and have fasted up to 36 hours. It's easier if your body is fat adapted.
But, dude, Arebelspy for the love of God and lean body mass, please do not deliberately restrict your food intake any more than your appetite does naturally, ok? :)
-
That Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead documentary was pretty interesting if you're considering fasting and only drinking juice. I've been thinking about trying it but I'm not sure if I could only drink juice and continue to lift weights and do HIIT at the same time. Probably too much stress for the body and I don't want to lose any hard earned muscle. But I highly recommend that documentary, it's a great story.
-
The breakfast arguments seemed pretty silly. Most of them were correlation without any proof of causation. It's possible that people who eat breakfast are probably less likely to eat junk snack food before lunch. Actually, this is a big point of that huff post article that is missed. Almost all of their 7 reasons are that people who eat breakfast are eating healthy breakfast foods as opposed to unhealthy snack foods.
If you're training for something, fasting can help you prepare against the wall. Meaning fasting can deplete your carb stores forcing you to exercise on the energy from fat burning. In that sense fasting can be good for increasing your body's efficiency at fat burning. However, I believe in that is scientifically inconclusive.
-
I regularly fast from like 2pm-8pm because I don't have any food on hand :( Also from ~10 or 11pm until 6 or 7 am. Other than that I eat constantly.
I'm bad at eating breafast too.
-
There is some evidence that calorie restriction improves health and increases longevity. While this appears to work in rats, recent studies have challenged the idea that calorie restriction has benefits over a standard healthy diet in primates. Apparently the main study that showed a benefit was comparing calorie restriction vs. an unhealthy diet, which isn't very useful.
That's relevant because there is some evidence that intermittent fasting creates similar benefits to calorie restriction. This article (http://gettingstronger.org/2010/05/calorie-restriction-and-hormesis/) might be of interest.
There was a show about fasting on PBS (https://video.pbs.org/video/2363162206/). After fasting, the show's host had significant changes in certain blood test levels, including insulin response, but again, it's not clear whether this improves overall health long-term.
-
Strongly against fasting. I'm very active, and notice a significant drop in my performance when fasting. I run slower, lift less weight, can only bike shorter distances, and feel crankier. If you eat a very poor diet, or don't exercise much, it could be quite beneficial. If you're eating clean, and getting exercise 'fasting' really equals the less trendy 'starving'.
-
Bringing this thread back from 2013, y'all!
I've never been one for fasting... toxins, blah blah. I think it's a bunch of nonsense.
However, I've decided to do a fast sometime this month - for a day or 2, haven't decided.
I'm doing it not necessarily for health benefits - but as a way to mentally train myself that being hungry doesn't mean I need to stuff my face.
I haven't gone without eating something for more than 4-5 hours (minus sleepy time) in the last 10+ years! Isn't that crazy?!
(except last year, had a 24hr stomach bug, probably went 8 hr without eating) ...wow I'm spoiled.
This overly cushy lifestyle I've been fortunate to live means I'm not used to feeling hunger, and translates into poor discipline when it comes to eating correctly. (by the way, I'm not overweight @ 170lbs 6'0''', and very active)
When I'm met with a little hunger (i.e. haven't eaten in 3 hours) my ability to concentrate diminishes and I eat the first thing that I can find to put in my face!
Throughout my 20s I was constantly trying to gain weight (I was a bean pole) and developed a habit of eating frequently, regardless if I was hungry or not. This legacy has stuck with me now that I'm 30 and trying to drop a little body fat. I feel a short fast might reset my response to a little hunger - that it isn't the end of the world.
Thanks for this thread, enjoyed reading the above posts/opinions!
-
Funny you bump this again; I recently ran across an interesting study on fasting that came out just a few days ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10878625/Fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html
http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/06/07/1633232/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system
-
Funny you bump this again; I recently ran across an interesting study on fasting that came out just a few days ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10878625/Fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html
http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/06/07/1633232/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regeneration-of-damaged-old-immune-system
Funny you posted that, here how the last few days panned out for me...
- Get frustrated at some stubborn body fat not being exhaled from my body.
- Realized I haven't gone without eating for more than 4 hours in the over a decade and I'm a spoiled brat.
- Decide to do a little fast.
- Come across those two exact articles you posted in my research.
- Look through the stellar MMM community for past discussions.
Again, there is much evidence left to be desired when quantifying health benefits of a fast (IMO) - the demographic in these studies don't apply to me at the moment, thankfully. But I enjoy seeing the potential of new discoveries come about by sound scientific process!
-
This is simply a personal experience, I'm not linking to various studies.
I water fast for about five days every three months. I enjoy it, it makes food taste amazing. It gets me out of eating when bored, and really reinforces the "food is fuel" mantra. I have a vicious relationship with food and it's calming to have a time when I don't have to think about food at all.
I just read, xbox, and sleep as much as possible. It's good to just check out sometimes.
-
- Realized I haven't gone without eating for more than 4 hours in the over a decade and I'm a spoiled brat.
You don't sleep?
-
- Realized I haven't gone without eating for more than 4 hours in the over a decade and I'm a spoiled brat.
You don't sleep?
I can sleep when I'm dead! haha
Above I said, 'minus sleepy time' ;)
-
I found when I stayed home with my kids, I very naturally gravitated towards 2 meals a day, one at around 10-11am and another around 3-5 pm. Because I get up so early for work now, I require some sort of food in the morning or I become exhausted by 9-10 am. I have been contemplating doing some fasts, just for the spiritual aspect of being more appreciative of food instead of taking it for granted, but I haven't pulled the trigger.
-
If you fast for very long, your body will go into hyper-efficient, low metabolism starvation mode. Your body will start breaking down muscle (in addition to fat) to fuel your brain in the prolonged absence of food.
For how long are you planning to fast?
Actually the science on whether or not the body even has a "hyper-efficient, low metabolism starvation mode" is very inconclusive if not completely non-existent. Your metabolism will slow if you fast/starve for an extended period but there is virtually no evidence to support the idea it basically shuts down to almost non-existent mode. In fact there is more evidence to support the idea that a persons basal metabolic rate is basically set at birth into a very narrow range which almost nothing will change to any statistically significant degree.
As for fasting, the science on the health benefits is also still very inconclusive. The benefits in certain blood levels and markers portrayed in the documentary "Eat, fast, live longer" can all be had by eating a low GI diet. Most fasting literature such as 5:2, warrior diet, every other day diet, alternate day diet all advocate eating low GI/high protein meals on the fasting day. So it is inconclusive if the benefits achieved are from the fasting or from the low GI component of the diet.
For weight loss it is simply another way of restricting caloric intake and therefore will result in weight loss if done consistently. Some people will find it easier to fast for a day or two at a time than to constantly restrict calories over a longer period. So from that point of view, go with what works and you can stick with. One benefit of a fasting type diet over a regular calorie restricted diet that does seem to be well supported is that the amount of weight lost through muscle mass is significantly less on a fasting diet than a "regular" diet.
I enjoy fasting regularly but do so primarily for reasons other than health. If I end up getting some health benefits from it that will be a bonus.
-
On occasion. I find it good for my mental health more than anything. Appreciation, stoicism, and all that.
This is me too. Don't know about the health benefits or risks but like the way I feel (physically and mentally) and like to push myself on occasion (in many different ways) just to see what it feels like.
-
F-That!! I think you can eat healthy foods and feel great. Nothing tells me that fasting would be healthy...maybe an empty colon but I can do that by eating more fiber.
-
F-That!! I think you can eat healthy foods and feel great. Nothing tells me that fasting would be healthy...maybe an empty colon but I can do that by eating more fiber.
I mean, I'd personally rely on Science, but that aside, you can't think of any reason why it might be healthy? Forcing your body to kick-start certain processes, for example?
-
I do what you mentioned arebelspy-
Called intermittent fasting- eat all calories in an 8hr window and fast for 16hrs. I do this for weight loss reasons- apparently it is a healthy strategy for those trying to lose the last small amount of body fat.
I noticed that I don't pig out as much because I eat 2 huge meals that keep me full for hours- before I would just snack all day.
Not sure how much of the weight loss has been due to the fasting alone- I completely changed diet and now exercise for about 50 minutes per day so it would be hard to tell what to attribute to the fasting; however, since Jan I went from 250 35%bf to 200 15%bf (only 2 months utilizing IF). I have had good muscle gains (which is rare during a fat loss program) so I do believe I am doing something right (verified through measurements and strength gains for those of you who would deny- chest/arms/legs all growing while waist shrinking).
Hardest part is making sure you eat all of your calories for the day (I eat 2000-2500 depending on if it's a lift day or not)- it's easy to try and "diet" but that is counter productive and not healthy long term- and as I have discovered will lead to massive binges after about 2 weeks. I also "cheat" on weekends. So basically 5/2 on/off. Simplicity is nice- don't have worry about making breakfast during the weekday. In all honesty as long as you meet your caloric (more specifically macro) goals there should be no harm in putting off a meal for a few hours- and if there is a good chance it will assist in getting me down to 8% I'm all over it.
If interested read up on it but one of the supposed benefits is that once your body is finished utilizing food sources for energy after about 8hrs you then enter a "fasted" state which increases growth hormone production -and leads to testosterone increases (which I have noticed) -during the fasted state you are (supposidly) burning off your stored fat cells more readily then your muscle cells. Break the fast with a session at the gym and the increased GH substantially improves your muscle building/fat loss capabilities.
Then there is also the mental/religous aspect of learning how to deny yourself short term "pleasures" for long term "growth"- though in my mind the 16/8 strategy dosn't really apply here- it's too easy.
one of the sites with info - http://rippedbody.jp/
I agree that the science is spotty- but in the real world it has been one of the things that has helped me to stay consistant and make gains week after week. One thing I have learned during the past 6 months is that your body will tell you what it needs if you listen. Try something new for a month and you will know if it is working or not. Make changes and repeat. I will probably continue this practice for a long time. Also- can help to promote a MMM lifestyle- if you are out and about during your fasting phase no worries spending money on food.
-
it's too easy.
yeah I was gonna say... this sounds an awful lot like a regular day, maybe with an early dinner or something.
not fasting unless you go >24 hours ATMO, but I guess opinions vary on that
-
I do intermittent fasting (which as said, is basically just a fancy term for skipping breakfast) pretty much every day. My breakfast is just water and black coffee and I don't really get hungry until about lunch time. This works for me and also saves time in the morning.
I have also done longer fasts of 1-3 days but I don't do them on a regular basis. For most people, I think fasting is really just about switching to using fat as your main energy source rather than sugar. Once you're regularly in fat-burning mode (aka being fat-adapted) I don't see much need for longer fasts (except maybe psychological connection to food) but I'm certainly not an expert on other possible benefits.
So, if you are fat-adapted, you'll probably find it much easier to handle a fast lasting more than 24 hours without experiencing any hunger (I often do this on long-haul flights since the food isn't worth eating anyway). If you aren't fat-adapted, fasting might be a good way to get into that state more quickly. I would recommend looking into getting fat-adapted first and this can also be done without total fasting by cutting almost all carbs (other than some veggies like broccoli, cabbage, and leafy greens) and eating predominantly fat and moderate protein for several days.
-
F-That!! I think you can eat healthy foods and feel great. Nothing tells me that fasting would be healthy...maybe an empty colon but I can do that by eating more fiber.
I mean, I'd personally rely on Science, but that aside, you can't think of any reason why it might be healthy? Forcing your body to kick-start certain processes, for example?
Cutting your wrist and bleeding out for a while every morning could be healthy. Maybe forcing your body to replace that blood kick starts some processes. When you starve yourself, your body works your seratonin levels in such a way that get you high (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12718-starving-is-like-ecstasy-use-for-anorexia-sufferers.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12718-starving-is-like-ecstasy-use-for-anorexia-sufferers.html)). You can alter your emotional state via blood loss too (lose enough blood and you'll go into a stupor). Replacing the blood will certainly require additional caloric intake, so it could be slightly beneficial to your body weight and fat storage. There's even historical precedent for using bleeding to treat disease. . .
. . . does it sound like a good idea though? :P
-
Just a few notes on that link. Keep in mind that the researchers in the article were only looking at similarities to ecstasy's appetite suppressing effect. The title is purposefully misleading, since appetite suppression is not what most people will think of when they think of ecstasy, and they may assume that the study was looking at hallucinogenic effects when in fact it was not. (This is why I avoid New Scientist)
It shouldn't be at all surprising that the same brain region involved in appetite suppression for one situation (ecstasy) might be involved in appetite suppression in another (anorexia). This does not imply that the experience of these situations are at all similar. The title really should have been "Starving is may be like ecstasy use for people certain receptor sites in the nucleus accumbens for anorexia sufferers who were not actually measured in this study." The nucleus accumbens is implicated in all sorts of addictive behaviors, including gambling, and compulsive gamblers may gamble for extended periods without eating. Just because one brain region may have similar activity for both behaviors, this does not mean that gambling and taking ecstasy are similar experiences.
Lastly, the suggestion that short-term fasting and anorexia nervosa are equivalent is like pointing out that large doses of certain vitamins, medications, or stresses may be deadly in large quantities and therefore warning against the small doses (without evidence).
As for a daily blood-letting, there is suggestion in the literature (see Favazza's work) that self-harm may be related to endorphin release and this may partially explain why cutters feel better after cutting and use it as a coping mechanism. Perhaps if you cut back (pun intended) to a less severe form of bodily damage you might be on to something in regards to benefits (think runner's high, acupuncture, deep tissue massage etc.)
-
I just grabbed a link about it at random . . . but multiple studies show that seratonin levels are boosted by fasting.
- http://ac.els-cdn.com/S1550413112003981/1-s2.0-S1550413112003981-main.pdf?_tid=2e916886-f170-11e3-840f-00000aacb35f&acdnat=1402495167_003ed366e2fdb765127e1659555d18b8 (http://ac.els-cdn.com/S1550413112003981/1-s2.0-S1550413112003981-main.pdf?_tid=2e916886-f170-11e3-840f-00000aacb35f&acdnat=1402495167_003ed366e2fdb765127e1659555d18b8)
- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1987105/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1987105/)
Seratonin is responsible for feelings of well being and happiness. Thus, fasting gets you high. It's certainly not the same as doing ecstasy, but it has a measurable chemical effect on your brain.
-
I have read alot about fasting but, not much N=1 trying on my side, except for 16/8 of Berkhan.
The 16/8 (or sometimes 14/10) regime really feels liberating, because I discovered that I never actually gave my body a rest of munching except when asleep! I have yet to take up the courage to do a 24hour fast, which i think could establish better mental thoughts about food besides the found effects on regeneration of defect cells.
+GuitarStv is saying, if you may get high on nothing.. I may try
-
I used a fast to kick start my diet. For three days I had 3 smoothies a day. They contain mainly just fruit and Veg. Worked out so well I still have 1-2 smoothies a day 2 months later. I have dropped 22 pounds from 217 and I am feeling great. Also it was a great detox from sugary foods and salty snacks. Now my body gets quite upset if I go out and have a candy binge!. I really recommend a Vitamix blender if you plan on making juice or smoothies daily!
-
I experimented with juice fast and then water fasting. I was reading an auto biography of Gandi at the time and decided monkey see/read, monkey do. Surprisingly my energy levels seemed to go up when I fasted. I guess I was really eating unhealthy food. Then I go migraines due to caffeine withdrawal, decided to quit coffee after feeling like a junkie.
After the second day on a water fast I basically did not feel hungry and experienced a heightened sense of awareness and clarity. It is a well documented feeling during a fast. Once explanation is that your body is basically in survival mode and needs to step it up to be able to catch your next meal, pretty entertaining explanation that I am sticking to.
Is there any scientific evidence for the benefits for fasting, I have not found it. But I do know what I have experienced multiple times and enjoy the discipline involved. I now don't get so stressed out when I miss a meal as I know I can survive on water for more than three days. Plus during a fast is when I get the best sleep in the world. I mean I lay down and I'm out, no waking up at night, no tossing and turning, and I just bounce out of bed, instead of my normal routine of thinking about why I should get up in the morning.
-
I recently started experimenting with fasting for different lengths. Best benefit so far is I can plan a long hike or other activity and not have to worry about bringing food. It's a pain in the ass when you get hungry every few hours because you are used to having food available all day.
-
I kept trying to figure out a way to rid my body of toxins. I just kept thinking "if only there was an organ that would do it for me..." Then I had an aha moment when I remembered that I had a liver.
I'm far from a medical expert, but from my brief research I find that most credible experts say that a healthy liver rids your body of toxins way more efficiently than fasting.
-
F-That!! I think you can eat healthy foods and feel great. Nothing tells me that fasting would be healthy...maybe an empty colon but I can do that by eating more fiber.
I mean, I'd personally rely on Science, but that aside, you can't think of any reason why it might be healthy? Forcing your body to kick-start certain processes, for example?
Cutting your wrist and bleeding out for a while every morning could be healthy. Maybe forcing your body to replace that blood kick starts some processes. When you starve yourself, your body works your seratonin levels in such a way that get you high (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12718-starving-is-like-ecstasy-use-for-anorexia-sufferers.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12718-starving-is-like-ecstasy-use-for-anorexia-sufferers.html)). You can alter your emotional state via blood loss too (lose enough blood and you'll go into a stupor). Replacing the blood will certainly require additional caloric intake, so it could be slightly beneficial to your body weight and fat storage. There's even historical precedent for using bleeding to treat disease. . .
. . . does it sound like a good idea though? :P
Or donate some blood. If you really want to have some fun, drink some booze afterwards, pint for a pint, or 2 or 3... I did that one time, forgetting that I'd donated blood. Ended up drooling on myself.
-
I kept trying to figure out a way to rid my body of toxins. I just kept thinking "if only there was an organ that would do it for me..." Then I had an aha moment when I remembered that I had a liver.
I'm far from a medical expert, but from my brief research I find that most credible experts say that a healthy liver rids your body of toxins way more efficiently than fasting.
Many people in the thread have already stated their disbelief in the idea of fasting being good for "detoxing". In fact, I'm not sure a single person has stated they fast in order to detox their body but I couldn't be bothered re-reading every post to be certain.
So I'm not really sure of the relevance of your post.
-
Could someone define "fasting"? There are several definitions in this set of posts, and several in practice:
1. Water, tea, and completely clear soup. What you do for medical reasons. Several of the studies which fast for a period, then don't are talking about this type of fast.
2. Eating a lot less than you would normally for a period of time, and then eat normally. The rat/mouse studies I have seen have been following this form of fast. There have also been longitudinal studies of people who were once forced onto very low diets (holocaust survivors etc.) These studies have shown that this type of fasting tends to allow you to live longer. However, they are not the .5 day or 2 days out of 7 that are currently popular.
3. Juice or liquid diets. I am fairly confident that these don't work. I haven't seen any research about this. However, it has been found that juice is bad for you - you consume a lot more than you would otherwise. This is why the latest national diet recommendations do not recommend juice, and list it with sugar as bad.
Nutritionists tend to be scathing about "detox" diets, as people do not need to "detox".
-
Could someone define "fasting"? There are several definitions in this set of posts, and several in practice:
1. Water, tea, and completely clear soup. What you do for medical reasons. Several of the studies which fast for a period, then don't are talking about this type of fast.
2. Eating a lot less than you would normally for a period of time, and then eat normally. The rat/mouse studies I have seen have been following this form of fast. There have also been longitudinal studies of people who were once forced onto very low diets (holocaust survivors etc.) These studies have shown that this type of fasting tends to allow you to live longer. However, they are not the .5 day or 2 days out of 7 that are currently popular.
3. Juice or liquid diets. I am fairly confident that these don't work. I haven't seen any research about this. However, it has been found that juice is bad for you - you consume a lot more than you would otherwise. This is why the latest national diet recommendations do not recommend juice, and list it with sugar as bad.
Nutritionists tend to be scathing about "detox" diets, as people do not need to "detox".
For me fasting means only drinking water for at least a 24 hour period. Usually no longer then that for me but I have been known to do it longer but I wouldn't advise it.
-
Speaking of detoxing, I have some food allergies. When I am sick (very sick!) and can't eat for a few days, my low level allergic reaction that I apparently get for putting food in my mouth goes away, and I feel fantastic!
Too bad that goes right away when I start to eat again...
-
Could someone define "fasting"? There are several definitions in this set of posts, and several in practice:
1. Water, tea, and completely clear soup. What you do for medical reasons. Several of the studies which fast for a period, then don't are talking about this type of fast.
2. Eating a lot less than you would normally for a period of time, and then eat normally. The rat/mouse studies I have seen have been following this form of fast. There have also been longitudinal studies of people who were once forced onto very low diets (holocaust survivors etc.) These studies have shown that this type of fasting tends to allow you to live longer. However, they are not the .5 day or 2 days out of 7 that are currently popular.
3. Juice or liquid diets. I am fairly confident that these don't work. I haven't seen any research about this. However, it has been found that juice is bad for you - you consume a lot more than you would otherwise. This is why the latest national diet recommendations do not recommend juice, and list it with sugar as bad.
Nutritionists tend to be scathing about "detox" diets, as people do not need to "detox".
Like a lot of things in life, I don't think you will get a single definition that everyone agrees upon.
For me fasting means any period of consciously choosing to go without food or any substantial calories from liquid(ie: no fruit juice but plain tea would be ok) for a period of not less than 24 hours.
-
I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting. I will be trying to do this in the near future.
-
Funny this got bumped again because look who is fasting. I decided that this weekend I was going to fast Saturday to Monday morning only drinking water. I generally eat when I am hungry and don't worry about it, but that just means I end up eating one maybe too meals during the day with a snack. Sometimes I completely skip a waking day of eating when not at work because nobody is around to pressure me into doing what is normal. If I am not hungry, why eat?
Anyway, all this talk of food has me hungry. Time to go for a walk or something.
-
I kept trying to figure out a way to rid my body of toxins. I just kept thinking "if only there was an organ that would do it for me..." Then I had an aha moment when I remembered that I had a liver.
Quote of the day!
-
My experience in combining intermittent fasting and a labor intensive job: 35 lbs lost in 4 months.
It wasn't by choice, but working graveyard hours kinda messes with the schedule of things. I never ate breakfast, but now I forego dinner. Right now I eat 3 meals in a 4.5 hour window. Snack of fruit and nuts for first break, big lunch for lunch two hours later, and snack of fruit/veggies/nuts 2.5 hours after that.
My job involves running around a warehouse and picking 20-30 lb cases onto pallets for 8-10 hours. I never feel low on energy. The only time I feel like crap is when I consume energy drinks, which I've quit thankfully.
I'm still losing weight currently, right now at about 5 lbs a month. I probably "should" up my caloric intake, but nutritional and energy needs are met so I think I'll just keep on trucking.
-
Anyone staunchly for/against it and have science on their side? (So many of the claims around things like that - cleaning out the toxins, yadda yadda - are hyperbole bullshit it's hard to know what to take seriously.)
Not staunchly against but somewhat cautious since "detox" is unscientific bullshit. If your body starts to burn the fat it has stored away, the toxins contained in such fat flood your body and have a second round of possible effects before they leave the system. Because a complete fast will burn fat faster than it was build up not only do you get a second round of the same but much higher doses. We are all a lot less "toxed" than Gwyneth Paltrow thinks so rarely any permanent harm is done, however, e.g. episodes of gout are frequently caused by rapid weight loss.
That being said I guess fasting can make sense as a mental exercise or to kick-start long-term weight loss.
-
Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html
-
Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html
The key problem: why trust that one person?
Also it focuses on fasting for weight loss (and how it may not help). What if that's not your purpose at all?
-
Off topic: Every time I am scanning the page quickly and see this thread, I think the topic is 'farting.' That's all; carry on.
-
Hmm: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-dr-fuhrman-on-fasting.html
The key problem: why trust that one person?
Also it focuses on fasting for weight loss (and how it may not help). What if that's not your purpose at all?
Good point! I dunno!
I trust Joel Furhman cause I'm reading his book Eat to Live and it seems to be based upon sound research.
-
I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting. I will be trying to do this in the near future.
You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc. Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls. Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber. So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down. The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.
By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).
Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.
-
There is a place call True North in CA that does doctor supervised fasts.
I've heard it's helpful for people with colitis or Crohn's disease because it gives their gut time to heal up. But then they have to also be careful of what they eat afterwards. As I understand dairy and meat, and maybe some other certain foods can be problematic for them. But I am not an expert, that's just what I've heard as far as benefits of doctor supervised fasting for some people with those diseases.
-
I've lost 9lbs fasting on alternate days since August. To be honest, I haven't noticed any other physical benefits. But it's certainly mustachian for my grocery budget as I've dropped from 21 meals/week to only 11 max. On fasting days, I eat up to 500 calories. Although I'm allowed to eat normally on the other days, I don't have much of an appetite, so end up eating only two meals and maybe a snack.
I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting. I will be trying to do this in the near future.
You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc. Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls. Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber. So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down. The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.
By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).
Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.
The diet-heart hypothesis is outdated/incomplete. See for example http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy and http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/02/07/eggs-dont-cause-heart-attacks-sugar/#close and references cited in each article.
-
I've lost 9lbs fasting on alternate days since August. To be honest, I haven't noticed any other physical benefits. But it's certainly mustachian for my grocery budget as I've dropped from 21 meals/week to only 11 max. On fasting days, I eat up to 500 calories. Although I'm allowed to eat normally on the other days, I don't have much of an appetite, so end up eating only two meals and maybe a snack.
I've read some interesting articles aboutq reducing cholesterol levels by fasting. I will be trying to do this in the near future.
You can reduce your cholesterol by reducing any animal products, meat, fish, fowl, etc. Cholesterol is a component of animal cell walls, just as fiber is a component of plant cell walls. Thus, any plant food does not have cholesterol, and any animal food does not have fiber. So uptake your fiber by eating starches, rice, grains, beans, veggies, fruits, sweet potatoes, etc. and decrease your animal intake and your cholesterol will go down. The more you change the component of your food (animal vs. plant) the more change/drop you will see.
By the way, our bodies make our own cholesterol (in the amount we need) so any extra we eat by eating animals goes to the veins/arteries and clogs them (along with the saturated fat in the meat/dairy).
Fasting will also reduce your cholesterol because you're not eating it.
The diet-heart hypothesis is outdated/incomplete. See for example http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy and http://drhyman.com/blog/2014/02/07/eggs-dont-cause-heart-attacks-sugar/#close and references cited in each article.
I disagree with those articles. Plenty of doctors dispute the paleo diet, eggs, cholesterol, saturated fat. How would you account for Dr. McDougall's program results? Or the pictures of cleaner arteries from the Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease book (Dr. Esselstyn), among others?
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2013nl/aug/travis.htm
and www.drmcdougall.com for more info
-
Fasting helps in cleaning of the body and tests your patience on over eating. You can do do fasting after 3 or 4 months.
-
I personally think fasting for physical health reasons is nonsense. If you want to do good things for your physical health eat properly for your body and activity levels and lift a weight or two.
Personally, when I go too long without eating my brain shuts down and my energy levels go way down. What fun is that?
If you are doing it as a mental exercise or for some other purpose...whatever blows your skirt up.
-
Fasting helps in cleaning of the body and tests your patience on over eating. You can do do fasting after 3 or 4 months.
Could you elaborate how fasting cleans the body?
-
I follow Ori Hofmekler's Warrior Diet way of eating. Highly recommend giving it a try. For me it's not a diet, but a way of life. Undereating and/or fasting during the day, and one big meal at night, with as high of quality foods as possible.
-
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30601864/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/
This article re-piqued my interest in fasting, especially about autophagy, blood pressure, and self-reported emotional and physical health. I'm not interested in the 250 calories of rice + veggies followed by an enema per se (Buchinger) but I am having unlimited water plus daily vitamins and am keeping a moderate level of exercise going (walking, riding the bike, 50 pushups, 50 body squats).
I haven't had a fast of longer than 2 days in several years. Weight loss might be reason #7 (out of 7) that I'm currently trying a multi-day fast.
As of 12:45pm central time in the US on 10/26 I'm at ~41 hours (last time I had a calorie was around 8pm on 10/24).
Yesterday evening I was hungry but wanted to push past to see if it changed. I woke up this morning feeling more refreshed than I have in awhile. The mental clarity was especially notable and I did not have any hunger pangs. This tracks with experiences in the past - once you get over the hump of the first day it's enlightening/profound how I feel. The spiritual/mental side of the fast is what I'm most interested in at this stage in my life. It's wonderful to explore my headspace and just evaluate my "normal life" with what feels like less bias. Also, I haven't flexed my "self-control muscles" in awhile and it feels good to set a difficult (for me, at least) goal and achieve it. Makes me appreciate just how awesome modern living is with constant access to food.
If I feel dizzy or something is off, I'll eat but for now I'm going to keep fasting. Something in the 3-5 day range sounds good to me but we shall see.
-
I water fast for a week or so about twice a year and have been doing so for... dunno, a while. At least 4-5 years, maybe longer. I don't recall exactly when I started.
The trick for longer fasting is figuring out electrolytes - sodium, potassium, magnesium. About 1000mg sodium and potassium per 32oz water seems about right - pure water tends to go through me in a hurry while fasting (you'll know it when it happens), whereas the salt mix is much more stable. I also tend to cheat a bit and use either some zero calorie flavoring or LMNT salt packets at times. I've had problems keeping the electrolyte balance in the past, but I think I have it better dialed in now. You also don't need prodigious quantities of water - that tends to flush you out, to include useful stuff like electrolytes you want to keep in.
Why on earth bump a decade old thread, though?
-
I water fast for a week or so about twice a year and have been doing so for... dunno, a while. At least 4-5 years, maybe longer. I don't recall exactly when I started.
The trick for longer fasting is figuring out electrolytes - sodium, potassium, magnesium. About 1000mg sodium and potassium per 32oz water seems about right - pure water tends to go through me in a hurry while fasting (you'll know it when it happens), whereas the salt mix is much more stable. I also tend to cheat a bit and use either some zero calorie flavoring or LMNT salt packets at times. I've had problems keeping the electrolyte balance in the past, but I think I have it better dialed in now. You also don't need prodigious quantities of water - that tends to flush you out, to include useful stuff like electrolytes you want to keep in.
Why on earth bump a decade old thread, though?
At what point would you say the electrolytes offer benefit? Like if you were doing a 3 day fast, would you bother or do you reserve that for only longer fasts? How do you ingest the potassium? Sodium I can understand you would do some simple math with NaCl to get to 1000 mg of sodium but what are you doing for the potassium? I see that potassium gluconate pills are common but most only seem to be in the neighborhood of 100 mg. Would you take 10 of those?! Seems like a lot. How did you arrive at 1000 mg? Was that based on how you feel or you read some medical literature on it somewhere?
Do you ever measure your BP before and after or have a physical or panel or anything?
As for bumping an old thread - it has useful info in it. Why would I start a new thread and ignore the old stuff? People have been fasting, either on purpose or by necessity, for as long as humans have been a species. What's relevant to fasting back then is still relevant now so I'm not worried about several years in a forum. If bumping a thread that's still relevant is somehow taboo, I'm surprised you a) responded to it and b) are having a hard time conceiving why another human might glean value from older threads.
-
Hmm I'm a big fan of listening to your body. Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're not. Never understood the point of fasting from a health standpoint. I can understand the stoic argument but don't really pursue it.
Assuming your body and brain work as intended. Some people have a snack monster within them and struggle.
I see evidence of my metabolism slowing down when I skip too many meals too often.
-
At what point would you say the electrolytes offer benefit? Like if you were doing a 3 day fast, would you bother or do you reserve that for only longer fasts?
I just add them in by default when I'm fasting. Sodium/potassium deficiency isn't pleasant, so I try to avoid it. Three days is starting to get into when I would recommend it, though you're probably OK without. I just find it makes things far easier and smoother than without.
How do you ingest the potassium?
The standard No-Salt you find in grocery stores is potassium, ~640mg per 1/4 tsp.
Do you ever measure your BP before and after or have a physical or panel or anything?
No, I just pay attention to my body. My resting heart rate drops down during fasting, but not substantially so - just noticeably.
-
20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.
-
20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.
That's interesting - key phrase is perhaps 'without malnutrition'. I'm certainly not looking to lose muscle mass or put me more at risk for something major. Autophagy seems to be a possible explanation and is something I hope will be have a lot more research devoted to it. We have a pretty good idea that not enough sleep is a HUGE factor for Alzheimer's and other neural breakdown. So whatever processes on the body's to-do list that occur after a decent amount of sleep (e.g. the body might do 100 different 'maintenance' tasks during sleep and there is some type of prioritization, maybe the body doesn't always get to tasks #95-100 unless it has 8+ hours of sleep, the exact number will be different for everyone but that's a general idea) - I liken that to the overall body when it's going for a time without food and the physical body "gets the message" to not prioritize digestion for the moment or as much and instead repair misfolded/broken/damaged proteins/cells in the brain, liver, kidneys, etc. It just sounds like it would be good for mitigating cancer risks and makes sense that mammals have extended life spans when they undergo periods of fasting.
Personally, I think the 'Sober October' moniker seems like a lame but effective enough memory device for me to do a multi-day fast once a year there while also abstaining for other potential vices (tobacco, THC, alcohol, caffeine, etc.). Admittedly, I have plenty of calories in storage for this. It does seem easier to do (not as grouchy nor hungry) when your diet is not as carb-heavy, i.e. can more readily consume ketones. Even if it's all garbage and there is ZERO benefit to fasting with respect to cancer, longevity - I like the practice. It's humbling. It's harder mentally than it is physically. It's not easy and feels good to accomplish by going without - something seemingly so trivial with so many calories at our fingertips. The last thing I want to do is take for granted how easy our lives are today in terms of access to food. And as mentioned, it's a bonus side effect that many biomarkers improve. I don't see a real downside to doing a multi-day fast once every blue moon.
-
Not having read the thread, I just put dwon my 2 cents:
Cent 1: Long time fasting (made with doctor overwatch) certainly can make you more healthy, not only because of weight loss. That has long been known, and ever more parts are proven.
Cent 2: Short time asting - eating only once at one day a week for example - is something that makes you a lot more aware of your body and also helps slimming down. After a day without food, your stomach will feel full with a significant less amount of food. Don't waste that opportunity! It also helps to get cravings under control.
Ah, cent 3, sorry: You shoudl definitely try sugar fasting. Depending on person (and addiction I guess) it takes somewhere between 2-4 weeks until you feel a decisive difference. "normal" sweet stuff will be too sweet or even a bit repulsive. You will feel better in various ways afterwards, but the days 3-10 are hard. As with all addictions, if you go without the stuff you get nasty symptoms.
-
20 years ago in my post doc there was very compelling evidence that calorie restriction without malnutrition extended lifespan, as well as reduced biomarkers of aging. That was 20 years ago so I'd need to look up the results for chimps, but again there is no reason to believe it would not apply. Calorie restriction can involve strict fasting, but doesn't have to. To achieve an effect you have to be like 75-80% of normal intake. That is a level where you are going to feel low level hungry all the time. So personally, I think it's beneficial. But it's aversive enough only a small percent of of people are willing to do this. While I do lent and usually lose a few pounds during that period, have never fasted other than a couple times for medical reasons (in labor, colonoscopy prep). Kind of curious, but not enough (yet) to actually do it. Maybe when I don't have anything to do.
That's interesting - key phrase is perhaps 'without malnutrition'. I'm certainly not looking to lose muscle mass or put me more at risk for something major. Autophagy seems to be a possible explanation and is something I hope will be have a lot more research devoted to it. We have a pretty good idea that not enough sleep is a HUGE factor for Alzheimer's and other neural breakdown. So whatever processes on the body's to-do list that occur after a decent amount of sleep (e.g. the body might do 100 different 'maintenance' tasks during sleep and there is some type of prioritization, maybe the body doesn't always get to tasks #95-100 unless it has 8+ hours of sleep, the exact number will be different for everyone but that's a general idea) - I liken that to the overall body when it's going for a time without food and the physical body "gets the message" to not prioritize digestion for the moment or as much and instead repair misfolded/broken/damaged proteins/cells in the brain, liver, kidneys, etc. It just sounds like it would be good for mitigating cancer risks and makes sense that mammals have extended life spans when they undergo periods of fasting.
Personally, I think the 'Sober October' moniker seems like a lame but effective enough memory device for me to do a multi-day fast once a year there while also abstaining for other potential vices (tobacco, THC, alcohol, caffeine, etc.). Admittedly, I have plenty of calories in storage for this. It does seem easier to do (not as grouchy nor hungry) when your diet is not as carb-heavy, i.e. can more readily consume ketones. Even if it's all garbage and there is ZERO benefit to fasting with respect to cancer, longevity - I like the practice. It's humbling. It's harder mentally than it is physically. It's not easy and feels good to accomplish by going without - something seemingly so trivial with so many calories at our fingertips. The last thing I want to do is take for granted how easy our lives are today in terms of access to food. And as mentioned, it's a bonus side effect that many biomarkers improve. I don't see a real downside to doing a multi-day fast once every blue moon.
For most people who fast regularly, it's actually stupid easy once your body gets used to it. I very comfortably eat only every second day and could very easily go for multiple days, but I like my alternative rhythm.
If anything, eating days are more of a mental game because I'm hungry every few hours and it's really annoying. It feels like living with a whiny child who demands food every few hours.
On fasting days I can just happily go about my day doing whatever I want, not having to deal with the constant distraction of getting hungry every few hours.
I only get hungry if I eat. If I don't eat, I don't get hungry. So eating is far more high maintenance than fasting. I also get tired and sluggish when I eat, so I tend to schedule my more active and productive days for fasting days.
Eating days are when I write papers. Lol.
-
I've read enough papers now about fasting now that there's no doubt in my mind that it has some health benefits.
But every time I try to do it on a regular basis I run into a problem. I record my performance in the sports that I take part in (weight/reps for weight lifting, time/distance/avg heart rate for cycling, number of rounds/total mat time for Jiu Jitsu. Fasting noticeably reduces your ability to perform physical tasks at a high level - pretty much right across the board. Speed, power, and endurance all seem to take a hit, and I am doing some sort of sport for about two hours a day - so fasting doesn't work for me.
This has made me wonder though if you get at least some similar benefits from training hard to the point that your body starts to run out of fuel as you do through fasting. In both cases you're forcing the body to deal with suboptimal calories.
-
I'm fascinated with the concept of fasting for longer periods. I've been intermittent fasting for years now and it has absolutely been a game changer for me in terms of managing my weight. I think it can get somewhat complicated when you factor in sports...namely endurance sports. I have been a half-marathon runner for years and recently branched out into triathlons. I do okay intermittent fasting with my running, swimming, & cycling workouts, but I'm a bit apprehensive about trying to do a full-on day or multi-day fast because I believe it will tank my performance. Fueling for endurance sport is an entire science unto itself and most of the literature that I've read doesn't even recommend IF while training...much less fasting for 24 hours or more. However, I still want to try it at some point just to observe the effects on my body and mind
-
Bodies are so individual that you're going to continue to get different reactions from different people. You might never know what IF is like for you until you try it yourself.
For example: I tried intermittent fasting (eating window of around 12-6pm each day) for a month or so in 2019. I lost weight quickly, but that also came with dizziness, wild blood sugar fluctuations, moodiness, under-performance in my sport, followed by a series of frustrating new soft tissue injuries. I stopped because ultimately it was dragging me down more than benefitting me.
I know plenty of people who have tried (or who still do it) whose only side effect has been bad breath. That said, none of them that I knew were quite like me (extremely active low-BMI female with history of anemia and irregular blood sugar). It was also likely that IF ended up calorie restricting me to a level that was unhealthy for someone of my already-small size. My takeaway is you can't apply the same blanket solution to very different individuals. And if you are going to experiment with a diet, take in your circumstances, move carefully, and consider consulting a nutritionist who can get your whole picture and look out for your health.
-
I've read enough papers now about fasting now that there's no doubt in my mind that it has some health benefits.
But every time I try to do it on a regular basis I run into a problem. I record my performance in the sports that I take part in (weight/reps for weight lifting, time/distance/avg heart rate for cycling, number of rounds/total mat time for Jiu Jitsu. Fasting noticeably reduces your ability to perform physical tasks at a high level - pretty much right across the board. Speed, power, and endurance all seem to take a hit, and I am doing some sort of sport for about two hours a day - so fasting doesn't work for me.
This has made me wonder though if you get at least some similar benefits from training hard to the point that your body starts to run out of fuel as you do through fasting. In both cases you're forcing the body to deal with suboptimal calories.
What my body could do fasted in the first several months is radically different from what my body could do after 6 months of IF, and even then at 12-18 months I was still adapting. There's absolutely no way I could only eat every second day at 6 months, but that's when I was able to start doing OMAD, which I absolutely could not do comfortably before then.
I now much, much prefer to do any exercise fasted. Many long term IF people get to this point. Your body gets more and more adapted to metabolically functioning without food.
I was definitely not using ketones efficiently for the first 6 months. This was freakishly self-evident because I smelled fucking atrocious, like a combo of burnt popcorn and nail polish remover as ketones were oozing out of my pores. It was seriously disgusting. My body switched to making ketones incredibly easily, but wasn't efficient at actually using them for awhile.
I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.
-
I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.
Damn, where do I sign up??! :P
-
I now much, much prefer to do any exercise fasted. Many long term IF people get to this point. Your body gets more and more adapted to metabolically functioning without food.
100%. I get up and go to the gym before work. My eating window stops at 8:00 p.m. So I'm working out 9-10 hours later with no food. In the beginning this was tough for me, but now that I've been doing IF for years I have trouble even trying to fuel before a workout. The flip side for me is that I'm now so accustomed to working out without food that it has caused me some problems on race day when I need fuel for a 2-4 hour plus event but cannot stand eating pre-race, lol.
-
I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.
Damn, where do I sign up??! :P
Apparently my experience was rare, but some degree of stink, or at least stinky breath is pretty common while adjusting.
But note, I was prescribed IF by my neurologist, so I was highly motivated, and being stinky is probably one of the least bothersome side effects I've had over the last 5 years of prescriptions from neurologists.
-
I cannot overstate how gross it was. I was showering twice a day just to tolerate my own stench.
Damn, where do I sign up??! :P
Apparently my experience was rare, but some degree of stink, or at least stinky breath is pretty common while adjusting.
But note, I was prescribed IF by my neurologist, so I was highly motivated, and being stinky is probably one of the least bothersome side effects I've had over the last 5 years of prescriptions from neurologists.
9-10 years ago was the last time I did a fast (something beyond IF) and I remember being simultaneously thrilled and disgusted in the shower. I was very much a disciple of a low carb diet and had been for quite awhile, like <50g of carbs per day and that was only from leafy greens and the occasional berry. Lot of protein and fats. Anyway, I did a multi-day fast and immediately while showering after a moderate workout on the first day I could just smell the ketone vapor emanating off my body in the shower. It was like, "Yes, it's happening!!" but also "Hmm, I might not be able to be intimate with my partner anytime soon."
A couple of trips to wreck some good habits coupled with some mild work stress and ... boom, now I'm middle-aged and wondering where the time went and it's time to refocus on health. I have not great family histories with certain types of health and just need to be proactive if I want to live a long time alongside my wife (whose mother has seemingly not aged a damn day in the ~17 years I've known her and is in great shape for 69 and expect her daughter to also live a long time). I know I am addicted to carbs and remember taking a sip of a soda back in my healthy days and being amazed at just how unbearingly sweet it was. Now, it tastes great and that's a problem. Stupid primitive wiring, I shouldn't have access to it this much! I need to be sustainable, though. I can't be a maniac or it won't work for me.
Get up and go for a walk, preferably outside in the sunshine, dummy.
Don't eat when you're full, dummy.
Don't drink sugarwater in its various forms, dummy.
Eat protein early in a meal and not sandwiched or surrounded by carbs, you'll feel fuller quicker.
That's just my inner dialogue but it is so cool to listen to the body and know what works for you.
-
Ketone vapour, yeah, that's a great way to describe it.
You're right though, as gaggingly gross as it was, it was kind of cool to have such a strong indicator or my body doing something different.
But I was VERY happy when it finally went away. Although I was perpetually paranoid that I had just become nose-blind to it and I was just walking around peacefully ignorant of my own fumes.
-
Life and limb, yes I had very similar experiences for many years. I was borderline anemic, had positional hypotension, and in general BP on the lower side. So when I did lent yes esp towards the end I would feel wiped out, and if my blood was tested around then i would be actually anemic. I was never an athlete but most of my life I didn't drive so primarily walked as my transport. Ironically, now that I'm officially post menopausal, this past lent was the easiest one so far. I now have a different body, and have to figure out how to take care of this body. What seems to be true: less carbs, less but more high quality foods, at least some time in sunshine every day, and more swimming vs high impact stuff. I still love dancing but may pay for it the next day. And I can prob do fasting now whereas before I really couldn't. Eta here is a review article on calorie restriction. It doesn't require fasting per se, but that is an easy way to accomplish it. In fact most zoos now have many animals except grazers not eat every day bc it is healthier and mimics more how they actually live in the wild (added an article about cr but most behind a paywall so deleted it).
-
Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.
I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.
-
All the science I have seen showed fasting is quite good for your health.
-
I've been doing IF combined with low-carb for about a year and a half. I lost 40 pounds pretty quickly and now I only IF 12-14 hours a day vice 16-18 I used to do.
I don't measure my carbs super close, but I only eat low carb Keto bread for bread and concentrate on protein, fat and green leafy veggies.
I've also been walking 6 miles or so each day, including 2.5 first thing in the morning. I think doing that religiously has had a big impact as well.
The research I've done seems to indicate that combining IF with low carb gives you a better weight loss outcome than doing just one by itself.
I'd like to lose another 10 pounds, but I'm pretty happy with losing the weight and keeping it off!
-
I just remembered that one of the best podcasts on youtube had an episode about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tRohh0gErM
Effects of Fasting & Time Restricted Eating on Fat Loss & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #41
-
Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.
I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.
Usually, ketoacidosis makes a smell like the person has downed a bottle of nail-polish remover. A very common symptom is the person appearing highly inebriated.
Ketone stench is more like your usual really bad breath combined with your usual really bad body odour smell.
-
Is this smell anything like ketoacidosis? I know someone who went through a phase where they weren't eating right and likely were likely pre-diabetic.
I would describe them as smelling like someone who had been hitting a bottle of vodka and kind of acted like they were. And honestly, they might have.
For me, specifically, it was very specifically a combo of burnt popcorn and nail polish remover. Sometimes more one that the other, often more burnt popcorn. And by burnt popcorn, I mean burnt microwave popcorn.
-
28FEB2015
I tried to cut my toenails. My belly was in the way. It was painfully uncomfortable. I was sucking wind and working up a sweat. I was disgusted with myself. I dug an old bathroom scale out of storage and found I was 274 pounds (on narrow 5'11" frame). I decided I HAD to lose weight.
My research (mostly articles freed from paywall behind JAMA and Lancet) showed that "dieting" simply does not work for sustainable weight loss. Some people have luck with keto but it usually fails long term and is not heart healthy. What apparently DOES work is Intermittent Fasting (some evidence pure fasting is also good). I tried it out and today I vacillate between 200 and 205. IF has turned into OMAD. If I add a day per week or at least every other week of more full fasting* I can lose weight but I'm kind of miserable. I've been down to 184 under a period of intense discipline but found the autopilot weight of low 200# requires little effort and no psychological suffering. My blood pressure is healthy (with meds) at that weight. My triG and HDL/LDL are back in range, without meds.
* A "full" fasting day for me contains scanty calories under 200 or so. I'll often have a cheesestick in the late afternoon. Might have half a dozen crackers. Drink all the water, and zero calorie soda I care to. AND, this is important, sip on hot broth throughout the day, like a mad Brit who thinks he is having a spot of tea. A 2 cup serving of vegetable broth is about 4 calories and does something psychologically for me to kill cravings. A fast day reliably has me weigh in 24 hours later about 3 pounds lighter. It is easier than you think to not overeat the next day in response.
This thread has me considering doing 1 day a month of conventional fasting. If I lost 2 pounds a month without making myself miserable, I'd be in a pretty good place a year from now! Four times a month is not mentally something I feel capable of at this time but maybe one?