Author Topic: Exercising vs active lifestyle  (Read 4665 times)

PeteD01

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Exercising vs active lifestyle
« on: August 16, 2015, 08:48:39 AM »
Some thoughts on current recommendations regarding exercise volume and intensity:

This has been bugging me lately. The current recommendations regarding physical activity go something like this: moderate activity (walking etc.) for thirty minutes four to five times a week is sufficient to reap most of the benefits of physical exercise.

Sounds too good to be true and that alone is a reason to look into it some more.
The recommendations typically come from professional medical associations and, while there is nothing wrong with that in itself, it is something to be kept in mind, because of the focus on damage control and management of public health issues is what drives these organizations.
Practically that means that any official recommendation must avoid discouragement of the target population and that population is most easily discouraged by recommending more exercise than they can imagine doing. Hence the quest for finding the lowest dose of exercise still conferring a substantial benefit. Again, there is nothing wrong with that in itself.
The recommendations must be evidence based as much as feasible and the body of research supporting the recommendations is indeed substantial.
Most of the research is observational/epidemiological with some experimental science as well.

The problem is the following: study after study shows that subjects with very modest volume and intensity of exercise have very substantial reductions in mortality when compared with inactive people and that the cumulative benefits of higher levels of physical activity are less impressive.
So far so good, but when one looks at the actual level of exercise performed by the moderately active subjects, one cannot fail to be impressed by how little physical activity that actually is. For me personally, 100 to 150 minutes of walking per week doesn't even count as exercise but is just my normal activity level.
If this moderate activity group is so unimpressive and yet the difference in mortality is so striking when compared with the inactive group, a closer look at the inactive group is warranted. And sure enough, that group is rather extreme. In order to move around for less than 100 minutes a week one has to basically sit down on the couch and stay there for good.
All of a sudden, the impressive effects of moderate exercise are not that impressive anymore because one would expect that regular mobilization of someone slowly dying from being immobilized on the couch has major health benefits. This does not diminish the value of the research but it puts it in perspective: mobilization of patients with severe behavioral abnormalities resulting in voluntary immobilization has major health benefits and these can be achieved with 100 to 150 minutes of physical therapy per week.
Once the patient is mobilized and is getting off the couch here and there, the cumulative health benefits of more exercise diminish. However, this is again an expected result as we are not dealing with a patient slowly dying on a couch anymore, but with a normal person and the effects of exercise.
The question is how to interpret the research and apply it to one's own situation.
For the ultimate couch potato, it is easy: bring your activity level up to that of a normal person and you will reap major benefits. However, the message for a normal person who went through the trouble of figuring out their activity level and found that they are already getting their 100 to 150 minutes of activity, is not that they are already getting most of the benefits of exercise and do not have to do any more. In fact, they haven't gotten any benefit yet because they didn't start out as a patient. And yet, I have heard it over and over that a little itty bit of exercise is all what a normal person has to do to stay well.
Let me illustrate this fallacy with an analogy: imagine to be somewhat overweight at 230lbs and you are thinking about losing some weight. You do your research and you find convincing evidence that morbidly obese people weighing 350lbs derive major immediate health benefits from losing weight and that 90% of the benefit is realized with the first 100lbs lost. Would you conclude that you have already realized more than 90% of the benefit, give yourself a pat on the shoulder and decide to abandon your plan? Of course not. The research is interesting but doesn't apply to you directly because you are not morbidly obese.
Similarly, for a normal person, concluding that 100 to 150 minutes of moderate activity per week is sufficient amounts to nothing more than congratulating oneself for not being the ultimate couch potato. Perversely, the attempt to define the lowest effective dose of exercise in order not to discourage the taking up of exercise results in providing an excuse for not exercising in the normal population.

Bottom line: the lowest effective dose of physical activity to prevent death from extreme inactivity seems to be around 100 to 150 minutes of moderate activity per week. This factoid has no relevance for normal subjects evaluating the potential effects of exercise on their future health and well being. The dose response relationship between exercise and mortality applicable to the normal person begins at the lowest effective dose and benefits accrue at a much slower rate. Hence, a normal person must exercise at much higher volume and intensity to realize benefits than the official recommendations at first glance suggest.


The big question is, however, if the quest for finding the magic prescription for compensating for an unhealthy lifestyle with the smallest possible amount of exercise is a sane one at all. One of the more interesting recent research seems to show that sitting in itself is bad for ones health and the bad effects can only be partially compensated for by exercise.
Incorporating physical activity into daily life as much as possible and actually stopping to think about it as exercise may be the more attractive approach.





Rezdent

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 11:21:23 AM »
Sadly, I believe the target audience of couch potatoes is quite large.

GuitarStv

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 09:50:25 AM »
I've been fat, and I'm currently fit.  There's a tremendous difference in the world when you're fit far beyond the 'you might live longer statistically' bit that is being focused on.

Striving for physical fitness should be rooted in a desire for better quality of life.  Being regularly active makes your body adapt and provide you with more energy all day long.  You will be able to chart out a slow and steady improvement over time.  You will eventually start to look better, which helps confidence.  Your mood in general will be better (thanks to changes in brain chemistry).  You'll have an easier time sleeping.  You'll get sick less often.  You'll be less likely to have or develop sex problems.

Pretty much everyone I know who has effectively lost a large amount of weight and kept it off has been following the 'quality of life' concept rather than the 'live longer' one.  But if 150 minutes a day gets you started on that path, then it's a force for good.

PeteD01

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 11:15:08 AM »
I think it will depend on what your goals are. Are you exercising or doing physical activities for health? For fitness? For weight management?  Each of those things will require a different amount of time and intensity to achieve the goal. But if you are talking about just trying to reap health benefit s (lower BP, cholesterol, blood sugar, etc..), then probably a very moderate amount of physical activity (and hour a day of brisk walking and some light weights) and a moderate diet is enough. If you want to lose weight (or gain weight) it will probably require more exercise and at a higher intensity. If you want to achieve a very fit state (able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!) then you really do need to seriously up the intensity and probably the time required. Just mho.

ETA: also being fit (strong, flexible, endurance, etc..) doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy. You can lift a gazzion pounds and do a ton of push ups and sit ups and play football all day long, but you could still have high BP, high fat levels, clogged arteries if you have other negative-health lifestyle factors such as bad diet, smoking, drinking, etc...- plus, if your physical activities involve sports that trash your body, you may have a lot of unhealthy muscle, tendon and ligament damage that a person who just exercises lightly doesn't have to deal with. Same with being at a ideal weight. If you get there by under eating, or eating a very poor diet, taking diet pills, smoking, etc...  combined with under exercising you may be even more unhealthy than an overweight but fit person. So health and longevity isn't just a matter of how much you work out.

My own Dad was one of those very fit, strong, lean, muscular, extremely active all his life but unhealthy people. Motorcycle racer in his 30's and 40's, long distance bicyclist, distance runner, and so on in his 50s. Yet he smoked, drank like crazy and ate an extremely unhealthy high fat, sugar and salt diet. At 55, a day after an "easy" 50 mile bicycle ride, he had a heart attack. Triple by-pass, and a couple of years later cardioid artery by pass and by passes on both legs, and eventually having an aortic artery aneurysm - all because of clogged arteries and high cholesterol and BP - lifestyle factors that had nothing to do with how much he exercised or how physically fit he was.

Completely agree with you. But here is the thing: what you call a "very moderate amount" of exercise, such as one hour a day of moderate intensity activity, is already three to four times the official minimum recommendation which happens to be 14 to 21 minutes per day of moderate activity. You also hit the spot of maximum health benefit of exercise which seems to plateau at three to four times the minimum recommendation.
I am totally with you calling one hour a day of moderate intensity activity a "very moderate amount" of exercise. In fact, between walking back and forth to work and to the grocery store and walking the dog, I easily exceeded that every day in my pre-retirement life, before even starting to think of doing some exercise (kettlebells three times a week).

The reason why the official recommendations ask for an almost absurdly low amount of moderate intensity activity is their underlying assumption: asking people to go to the gym one hour a day, that is seven hours a week, is simply too big a pill to swallow and nobody is going to do it if they can get away with a fraction of the effort and get 75% of the benefit. That's all nonsense, of course.
Again, I'm totally with you, one hour a day of moderate activity is a "very moderate amount" of activity and is extremely easy to achieve with some lifestyle adjustments and that will give one 100% of the benefit without even noticing that one is exercising at all.

The other benefits of physical activity are completely ignored by official recommendations and GuitarStv has pointed them out succinctly.



PeteD01

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 11:31:05 AM »
I've been fat, and I'm currently fit.  There's a tremendous difference in the world when you're fit far beyond the 'you might live longer statistically' bit that is being focused on.

Striving for physical fitness should be rooted in a desire for better quality of life.  Being regularly active makes your body adapt and provide you with more energy all day long.  You will be able to chart out a slow and steady improvement over time.  You will eventually start to look better, which helps confidence.  Your mood in general will be better (thanks to changes in brain chemistry).  You'll have an easier time sleeping.  You'll get sick less often.  You'll be less likely to have or develop sex problems.

Pretty much everyone I know who has effectively lost a large amount of weight and kept it off has been following the 'quality of life' concept rather than the 'live longer' one.  But if 150 minutes a day gets you started on that path, then it's a force for good.

Sadly, the minimum recommendation is 14 minutes a day and not 150.
Fourteen minutes of moderate activity doesn't get one started on anything unless one is already at death's door from inactivity.

Bob W

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 12:55:46 PM »
I'm pretty much in the 360 minute range I'm guessing at this point.   Here was my week -  lake kayaked about 2 hours.   Mowed the lawn 2 hours (big lawn).  Evening walks times 4 = 2 hours.   So about 6 hours.    I tell my neighbors on their riders that push mowing will add years to my life. 

I would like to exercise more but it is a chicken and egg deal.   I am overweight significantly and therefore,  at my age,  a risky proposition to jump into a more aggressive program.   

Since you spent a lot of time looking at the stats you may find the stats on socializing even more interesting.  It appears that people with fairly good social levels outlive many others.    As I recall being fairly social adds more years than quitting smoking,  exercise,  losing weight or quitting drinking.   Perhaps that is because being social requires a certain amount of moving around?

PeteD01

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 01:38:10 PM »
I think it will depend on what your goals are. Are you exercising or doing physical activities for health? For fitness? For weight management?  Each of those things will require a different amount of time and intensity to achieve the goal. But if you are talking about just trying to reap health benefit s (lower BP, cholesterol, blood sugar, etc..), then probably a very moderate amount of physical activity (and hour a day of brisk walking and some light weights) and a moderate diet is enough. If you want to lose weight (or gain weight) it will probably require more exercise and at a higher intensity. If you want to achieve a very fit state (able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!) then you really do need to seriously up the intensity and probably the time required. Just mho.

ETA: also being fit (strong, flexible, endurance, etc..) doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy. You can lift a gazzion pounds and do a ton of push ups and sit ups and play football all day long, but you could still have high BP, high fat levels, clogged arteries if you have other negative-health lifestyle factors such as bad diet, smoking, drinking, etc...- plus, if your physical activities involve sports that trash your body, you may have a lot of unhealthy muscle, tendon and ligament damage that a person who just exercises lightly doesn't have to deal with. Same with being at a ideal weight. If you get there by under eating, or eating a very poor diet, taking diet pills, smoking, etc...  combined with under exercising you may be even more unhealthy than an overweight but fit person. So health and longevity isn't just a matter of how much you work out.

My own Dad was one of those very fit, strong, lean, muscular, extremely active all his life but unhealthy people. Motorcycle racer in his 30's and 40's, long distance bicyclist, distance runner, and so on in his 50s. Yet he smoked, drank like crazy and ate an extremely unhealthy high fat, sugar and salt diet. At 55, a day after an "easy" 50 mile bicycle ride, he had a heart attack. Triple by-pass, and a couple of years later cardioid artery by pass and by passes on both legs, and eventually having an aortic artery aneurysm - all because of clogged arteries and high cholesterol and BP - lifestyle factors that had nothing to do with how much he exercised or how physically fit he was.

Completely agree with you. But here is the thing: what you call a "very moderate amount" of exercise, such as one hour a day of moderate intensity activity, is already three to four times the official minimum recommendation which happens to be 14 to 21 minutes per day of moderate activity. You also hit the spot of maximum health benefit of exercise which seems to plateau at three to four times the minimum recommendation.
I am totally with you calling one hour a day of moderate intensity activity a "very moderate amount" of exercise. In fact, between walking back and forth to work and to the grocery store and walking the dog, I easily exceeded that every day in my pre-retirement life, before even starting to think of doing some exercise (kettlebells three times a week).

The reason why the official recommendations ask for an almost absurdly low amount of moderate intensity activity is their underlying assumption: asking people to go to the gym one hour a day, that is seven hours a week, is simply too big a pill to swallow and nobody is going to do it if they can get away with a fraction of the effort and get 75% of the benefit. That's all nonsense, of course.
Again, I'm totally with you, one hour a day of moderate activity is a "very moderate amount" of activity and is extremely easy to achieve with some lifestyle adjustments and that will give one 100% of the benefit without even noticing that one is exercising at all.

The other benefits of physical activity are completely ignored by official recommendations and GuitarStv has pointed them out succinctly.
I agree that the recommendations of the amount of "needed" exercise/physical activity a day is way to low. I think those recommendations may only take in one or two aspects of health and/or assume that an average person is more active then they really are. A lot of people spend more downtime in front of a screen of some sort nowadays compared to in the past (and that starts in childhood) and so aren't as active. Maybe they need to update the studies to include slug like people who go from bed to car to desk to couch to bed (eating Hostess Cupcakes all day long) and have no other activity at all day in and day out - instead of just assuming most people get more moderate amounts of activity each day  and that adding in 30 minutes exercise gives them all the needed health benefits they require.

I know it is difficult to believe, but they are already including the slug-like people in the studies, and not only that, they work from there. They do not at all assume that most people are getting moderate amounts of exercise every day.
The slug is the new baseline. They may not explicitly state that in the recommendations but the research the recommendations are based on is clearly using the slug as the control group.
Actually, that is the whole point of bringing the subject up. The new normal is the slug dying from inactivity.
I'm not on a mission to discredit the official recommendations because I do understand the issues the authors of the recommendations face.
The misinterpretation, that much less exercise than previously thought is sufficient to be just fine, is what gets me and I have heard it over and over again. The research does not support it unless one accepts the slug as the new normal.
In reality, nothing has changed except that the recommendations now take into account that hardly anyone will go to the gym seven hours per week and minor lifestyle adjustments still deliver the goods.


PeteD01

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 02:17:36 PM »
I'm pretty much in the 360 minute range I'm guessing at this point.   Here was my week -  lake kayaked about 2 hours.   Mowed the lawn 2 hours (big lawn).  Evening walks times 4 = 2 hours.   So about 6 hours.    I tell my neighbors on their riders that push mowing will add years to my life. 

I would like to exercise more but it is a chicken and egg deal.   I am overweight significantly and therefore,  at my age,  a risky proposition to jump into a more aggressive program.   

Since you spent a lot of time looking at the stats you may find the stats on socializing even more interesting.  It appears that people with fairly good social levels outlive many others.    As I recall being fairly social adds more years than quitting smoking,  exercise,  losing weight or quitting drinking.   Perhaps that is because being social requires a certain amount of moving around?

Yes, I think it is quite possible that the activity associated with being social plays a role in this.
Difficult to isolate the effect but plausible.

Hamster

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 02:41:14 PM »
...I know it is difficult to believe, but they are already including the slug-like people in the studies, and not only that, they work from there. They do not at all assume that most people are getting moderate amounts of exercise every day.
The slug is the new baseline. ...
It is kind of like "Standard American Diet". The only thing standard about it is most people eat that crap. It is not standard from historical standards or from any 'standard' we should be striving for.

Or the recommendation to save 10-12% of your money for retirement. Based on a standard of "normal" that none of us wants to aspire to.

Maybe stretching a bit, but as Vonnegut said: 'A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.'

Bob W

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2015, 02:55:41 PM »
...I know it is difficult to believe, but they are already including the slug-like people in the studies, and not only that, they work from there. They do not at all assume that most people are getting moderate amounts of exercise every day.
The slug is the new baseline. ...
It is kind of like "Standard American Diet". The only thing standard about it is most people eat that crap. It is not standard from historical standards or from any 'standard' we should be striving for.

Or the recommendation to save 10-12% of your money for retirement. Based on a standard of "normal" that none of us wants to aspire to.

Maybe stretching a bit, but as Vonnegut said: 'A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.'

Good one!   SAD = pizza, burger and fries, hot pockets and donuts.  Shit my mom would have been embarrassed to serve me.  I had the pleasure of observing people eat at a restaurant this weekend.   (I passed)   They were eating piles and piles of food.   I would say the average plate had 1,500 calories.     

jba302

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 03:12:55 PM »
Only 2 hours a week of activity? How do you get anything done??

music lover

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2015, 04:45:24 PM »
I exercise about 30 minutes a day about 6 times a week. 30 minutes may not seem like much, but if you're already in shape you can get a lot more accomplished in less time, so it's "intense" activity, not moderate.

I run 6 kilometres (3.7 miles) in a little less than 30 minutes about 3x a week, and spend another 30 minutes 3x a week lifting. I usually get in about 15 sets in that time with 3 or 4 being warm-ups and 10-12 sets "heavy".


Bob W

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Re: Exercising vs active lifestyle
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 05:29:37 PM »
I exercise about 30 minutes a day about 6 times a week. 30 minutes may not seem like much, but if you're already in shape you can get a lot more accomplished in less time, so it's "intense" activity, not moderate.

I run 6 kilometres (3.7 miles) in a little less than 30 minutes about 3x a week, and spend another 30 minutes 3x a week lifting. I usually get in about 15 sets in that time with 3 or 4 being warm-ups and 10-12 sets "heavy".
you're rocking it.

 

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