Author Topic: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?  (Read 607212 times)

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5100 on: July 08, 2024, 02:16:25 PM »
Question: I've driven a F-150 Lightning but I did not have a chance to explore the maps and charger lists. Is it a very expensive EV with out of date charger lists like our Hyundai? I know it now has access to the Tesla network. What about the "other brand" chargers? Are their lists up to date in the F150?

Lightning is the same system as my MME (sync4a), I believe. The maps are online (and I believe the chargers are too by the latency of results and that they update pretty quick). However that means you have to pay for connected services, otherwise it is "whatever is installed on the vehicle" which is probably comically out of date.

I don't remember if it is directing me to nacs yet or not. Haven't done a long trip since the OTA that lets us use those -- but in any case I don't have an adapter yet so they aren't much use to me.

I tend to ABRP on the computer/phone anyway. I will use the onboard nav because carplay cooks the phone when navigating. But I'll have planned the route in ABRP and already know where I'm stopping to charge, reguardless of what the onboard says.

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5101 on: July 08, 2024, 05:08:53 PM »
Question: I've driven a F-150 Lightning but I did not have a chance to explore the maps and charger lists. Is it a very expensive EV with out of date charger lists like our Hyundai? I know it now has access to the Tesla network. What about the "other brand" chargers? Are their lists up to date in the F150?

Lightning is the same system as my MME (sync4a), I believe. The maps are online (and I believe the chargers are too by the latency of results and that they update pretty quick). However that means you have to pay for connected services, otherwise it is "whatever is installed on the vehicle" which is probably comically out of date.

I don't remember if it is directing me to nacs yet or not. Haven't done a long trip since the OTA that lets us use those -- but in any case I don't have an adapter yet so they aren't much use to me.

I tend to ABRP on the computer/phone anyway. I will use the onboard nav because carplay cooks the phone when navigating. But I'll have planned the route in ABRP and already know where I'm stopping to charge, reguardless of what the onboard says.

Good to know. Mustang may be on my "future EV" to look at list. Will be many years b/c we're just starting out with the Kona and we keep cars a long time.

Yeah, Recently noticed that Android Auto uses enough power that my phone doesn't gain much (any?) charge while traveling. I have to test further and pay more attention to starting and ending charges.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5102 on: July 08, 2024, 06:32:28 PM »
Good to know. Mustang may be on my "future EV" to look at list. Will be many years b/c we're just starting out with the Kona and we keep cars a long time.

Yeah, Recently noticed that Android Auto uses enough power that my phone doesn't gain much (any?) charge while traveling. I have to test further and pay more attention to starting and ending charges.

Wait for the 2nd model year. At least. Lots of 1st gen problems. Mostly around software, but not all around software (eg, the high voltage junction box mess).

I mean, it's still great because it is electric, and the electric experience (when you aren't having charging issues) is simply superior to gas, but...

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5103 on: July 09, 2024, 08:12:42 AM »
Seems like every car - ICEV or EV - has that special one or two engineering topics. In the early Kona/Niro it was motor and gearbox bearings. A friend recently gave up on their Ford powershift transmission. Unrepairable apparently.

Thanks for the heads up.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5104 on: July 10, 2024, 06:16:38 AM »
The mapping thing would be resolved if providers stopped trying to brew their own mapping software. Another case of NIH?

Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.

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NorCal

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5105 on: July 10, 2024, 07:16:01 AM »
The mapping thing would be resolved if providers stopped trying to brew their own mapping software. Another case of NIH?

Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

I donít know for sure, but I suspect the opposite is true.

Automakers have traditionally left mapping to companies like Garmin, TomTom and Google.

None of these partners seems to have much interest in the complexities of EV routing. I think car makers are getting into routing software because no one else is doing it.  Navigation software isnít a car makers strong point, and it shows.

My personal hope is that Rivian or EVGo start licensing their ABRP/Plugshare data to other carmakers. There would be advantages to everyone with this approach.

RWD

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5106 on: July 10, 2024, 07:32:46 AM »
Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.
Android Auto is supposedly coming soon to the Polestar 2 (via OTA update). It's virtually a non-issue for owners as we can just use the android apps already on the car, but I can see how that would be a very nice feature for rentals. They did add Apple CarPlay last year, so there is precedent for enabling this sort of functionality.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5107 on: July 10, 2024, 08:15:32 AM »


I donít know for sure, but I suspect the opposite is true.

Automakers have traditionally left mapping to companies like Garmin, TomTom and Google.

None of these partners seems to have much interest in the complexities of EV routing. I think car makers are getting into routing software because no one else is doing it.  Navigation software isnít a car makers strong point, and it shows.

My personal hope is that Rivian or EVGo start licensing their ABRP/Plugshare data to other carmakers. There would be advantages to everyone with this approach.

If they don't have an interest in it they may find their marketshare is taken by companies which do. Although when I search 'ev charging station ' in Google Maps on my phone it seems to do a decent job at displaying nearby charging stations. Of course the route planning with current charging station data is going to require a constant internet connection which is less than ideal.

Didn't a bunch of carmakers buy Here maps (formerly Nokia maps)?

Android Auto is supposedly coming soon to the Polestar 2 (via OTA update). It's virtually a non-issue for owners as we can just use the android apps already on the car, but I can see how that would be a very nice feature for rentals. They did add Apple CarPlay last year, so there is precedent for enabling this sort of functionality.

Interesting. I'll admit I found the software kinda awkward, controlling the HVAC was more difficult than it should have been.

What's the situation with DC chargers like over there? Are there major gaps on smaller highways? Are the chargers broken?

I went for a long drive on the weekend and there was a 170km/110 mile gap between chargers on the route I took, including a town of 6000. EV marketshare here is around 8-9%, so similar to the US. Lots of the charging stations I did pass were just a single 50kW charger, usually occupied.

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RWD

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5108 on: July 10, 2024, 10:02:43 AM »
Android Auto is supposedly coming soon to the Polestar 2 (via OTA update). It's virtually a non-issue for owners as we can just use the android apps already on the car, but I can see how that would be a very nice feature for rentals. They did add Apple CarPlay last year, so there is precedent for enabling this sort of functionality.

Interesting. I'll admit I found the software kinda awkward, controlling the HVAC was more difficult than it should have been.

What's the situation with DC chargers like over there? Are there major gaps on smaller highways? Are the chargers broken?

I went for a long drive on the weekend and there was a 170km/110 mile gap between chargers on the route I took, including a town of 6000. EV marketshare here is around 8-9%, so similar to the US. Lots of the charging stations I did pass were just a single 50kW charger, usually occupied.

I agree that the UI is not quite as intuitive as it should be. HVAC would be fine set to "automatic" but I've found it is not aggressive enough in ramping up fan speed. This did get better in a software update, but still not as good as the automatic mode on our other/previous cars. Heck, even my 1987 Toyota Supra had a better automatic HVAC. You can set the fan speed higher but then it doesn't ramp down enough once the interior is at temperature... I'm not alone in my confusion:
https://www.polestar-forum.com/threads/auto-climate-fan-speed.4726/

The saving grace here is parking climate. I can trigger the HVAC to keep the car cool (or warm) while parked so it doesn't have to catch up once we start driving again. For some reason with the parking climate feature the HVAC fans will work harder. It's so nice here in southern Arizona to be able to park at the grocery store in 110F (43C) heat, do our shopping, and come back to a perfectly cool interior.

In the highway driving I've done (about 6,000 miles/10,000 km across 13 states) I've found that the average gap is around 100 miles. The longest gap I've driven was 175 miles (282 km), though there is now a new DCFC between those two points. Most of the time we only need to charge to 60-70% to make it to our next charger with 10-20% remaining battery level. There are still a few routes in the US that are not EV road trip viable. When we moved last year we had to take I-40 instead of I-20, for example. The gap was in Louisiana/eastern Texas, though it too is mostly filled in now.

I've found ChargePoint DCFC are more reliable than the Electrify America ones (though my sample size is pretty small). We've never been unable to get a charge in our ~45 DCFC stops. But it has been common to need to switch charging cables/chargers. Between the applicable app and PlugShare we can get a pretty good idea of how many working chargers will be at a particular station. Broken chargers (or reduced output) are depressingly common and can remain broken for weeks or more.

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5109 on: July 10, 2024, 12:32:34 PM »
The mapping thing would be resolved if providers stopped trying to brew their own mapping software. Another case of NIH?

Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

What is NIH?

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5110 on: July 10, 2024, 12:43:40 PM »
I went for a long drive on the weekend and there was a 170km/110 mile gap between chargers on the route I took, including a town of 6000. EV marketshare here is around 8-9%, so similar to the US. Lots of the charging stations I did pass were just a single 50kW charger, usually occupied.

100+ mile gaps are normal in my part of the country.

Tyson

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5111 on: July 10, 2024, 12:56:12 PM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

GilesMM

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5112 on: July 10, 2024, 01:01:39 PM »
The collapse in Tesla prices is tempting. The S Plaid is the like the fastest car on the planet at $135k in 2021 and now around half that with lowish miles. I just wish there were fewer horror stories about the build quality and tech support.

RWD

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5113 on: July 10, 2024, 01:26:18 PM »
The mapping thing would be resolved if providers stopped trying to brew their own mapping software. Another case of NIH?

Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.

What is NIH?

Not Invented Here

Tyson

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5114 on: July 10, 2024, 02:43:53 PM »
The collapse in Tesla prices is tempting. The S Plaid is the like the fastest car on the planet at $135k in 2021 and now around half that with lowish miles. I just wish there were fewer horror stories about the build quality and tech support.

I would not buy an old Model S.  The S is the model they were still figuring stuff out on.  The 3 or the Y are much better built and have better ground-up engineering because of the lessons learned from the S and X.

pecunia

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5115 on: July 10, 2024, 02:45:19 PM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

Tyson

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5116 on: July 10, 2024, 02:50:56 PM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

nereo

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5117 on: July 10, 2024, 02:58:12 PM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5118 on: July 10, 2024, 04:08:54 PM »
Yeah your EV service interval is likely to be every ~1 year/10k miles and that's basically just rotate the tires and inspect things. Brakes every 3, and oil/coolant every 10+.

At home, yes, charging is easier (and way better) than a gas station. You can preheat/precool in the closed garage, no carbon monoxide worries. You aren't out in the rain/sleet/snow/blazing sun/high winds trying to fuel up. Electrons won't spill on your hands/pants/shoes and stink for hours.

On the road, maybe not. Reliability is the problem there for non-NACS cars. I suspect but can't verify once you can NACS charge that reliability is no longer a holdback. But I don't have my adapter yet...

pecunia

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5119 on: July 10, 2024, 08:02:04 PM »
Yeah your EV service interval is likely to be every ~1 year/10k miles and that's basically just rotate the tires and inspect things. Brakes every 3, and oil/coolant every 10+.

At home, yes, charging is easier (and way better) than a gas station. You can preheat/precool in the closed garage, no carbon monoxide worries. You aren't out in the rain/sleet/snow/blazing sun/high winds trying to fuel up. Electrons won't spill on your hands/pants/shoes and stink for hours.

On the road, maybe not. Reliability is the problem there for non-NACS cars. I suspect but can't verify once you can NACS charge that reliability is no longer a holdback. But I don't have my adapter yet...

I can hear that stuff from someone trying to sell me one, but when one hears it from people that actually own Electric Vehicles it counts more.  In addition, I suspect that I may not hear it from a salesperson.  The competition on pricing seems pretty hot on EVs.  There may be more margin on ICEs.  Salesmen may make more,  I have no basis for that.  It's just suspicion.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5120 on: July 10, 2024, 08:26:51 PM »
Salespeople are mostly clueless about EVs. Also, they're sales. Sorry to anyone who's sales but... yeah.

We've had ours for three years now, but when we walked into the dealer to drive it the salesperson very quickly realized I knew more about the car than she... or anyone else at the dealership did. Except maybe whoever'd ordered it and then refused the order (I think they decided to get a GT instead?).

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5121 on: July 10, 2024, 09:03:45 PM »
The mapping thing would be resolved if providers stopped trying to brew their own mapping software. Another case of NIH?

Although renting a Polestar 2 last year was a bit weird as Android Auto from a phone didn't work. I'm not signing into my Google account on a rental car.

What is NIH?

Not Invented Here

Thank you!

Just Joe

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5122 on: July 10, 2024, 09:05:32 PM »
This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

Uh, I'm waiting on a special quart of oil so I can change my EV's oil. Seriously.

Its the reduction gearbox oil. Yeah, I'm being a smart ass. Really surprised how long this oil is taking to arrive. 

geekette

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5123 on: July 10, 2024, 09:19:09 PM »
Salespeople are mostly clueless about EVs. Also, they're sales. Sorry to anyone who's sales but... yeah.

We've had ours for three years now, but when we walked into the dealer to drive it the salesperson very quickly realized I knew more about the car than she... or anyone else at the dealership did. Except maybe whoever'd ordered it and then refused the order (I think they decided to get a GT instead?).
We had a similar experience.  TWO sales people at the local dealership ghosted us, so after some searching, we found the one we wanted 100 miles away at a rural dealership.  The salesman said many times that we knew more about the car than he did.

One year later, and the recommended servicing was a tire rotation and lots of inspections for <$30. 

No DCFC for us so far, except once the first week before our home charger (okay, EVSE) was installed.  I might have to take a trip someday, though, so I keep "planning" trips on ABRP.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5124 on: July 11, 2024, 04:20:26 AM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

Any EV with a liquid cooled battery is going to have glycol coolant, at least one pump to circulate that coolant, and a heat exchanger (radiator) of some sort.

Here's a look at the battery cooling system of a Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

And that doesn't include components for HVAC Heat pumps, which also have coolant, pumps, and heat exchangers:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138514_tesla-heat-pump-detailed-gives-a-boost-to-winter-ev-range



EVs are billed as being less complex, but that doesn't mean that they're just a big battery, some wires, and a brushless motor like a cordless drill. The powertrain of an EV is obviously very different from an ICE powertrain. But the rest of the vehicle and it's supporting systems are pretty similar. Suspension, brakes, cooling, HVAC, even gearboxes are often still there and will need to be maintained. They require lots of similar chemicals, and similar components made by the same suppliers as ICEs.


NorCal

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5125 on: July 11, 2024, 06:42:09 AM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

Any EV with a liquid cooled battery is going to have glycol coolant, at least one pump to circulate that coolant, and a heat exchanger (radiator) of some sort.

Here's a look at the battery cooling system of a Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

And that doesn't include components for HVAC Heat pumps, which also have coolant, pumps, and heat exchangers:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138514_tesla-heat-pump-detailed-gives-a-boost-to-winter-ev-range



EVs are billed as being less complex, but that doesn't mean that they're just a big battery, some wires, and a brushless motor like a cordless drill. The powertrain of an EV is obviously very different from an ICE powertrain. But the rest of the vehicle and it's supporting systems are pretty similar. Suspension, brakes, cooling, HVAC, even gearboxes are often still there and will need to be maintained. They require lots of similar chemicals, and similar components made by the same suppliers as ICEs.

Here's the full maintenance schedule on a Rivian:

-Every 7,500 miles: Tire rotation, multi-point inspection
-Every 3 years: Brake fluid flush
-Every 112,500 miles: Coolant change; drive unit fluid change (quad motor vehicles only)


They clearly missed brake pads, but I think those will end up being a nearly 100k mile wear item. 

The unexpected expense on mine was a purchase of snow tires.  I'd been happy with all-season tires in my prior cars.  While I found the EV all-season tires broke traction similarly to my prior cars, the consequences of breaking traction in a heavy vehicle are much different than my prior smaller cars.

It also happens to be a vehicle that collects rock chips in the windshield for some reason.  I've had two visible ones in the last year.  I probably should get it replaced, but haven't done that yet. 

Paper Chaser

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5126 on: July 11, 2024, 07:40:31 AM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

Any EV with a liquid cooled battery is going to have glycol coolant, at least one pump to circulate that coolant, and a heat exchanger (radiator) of some sort.

Here's a look at the battery cooling system of a Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

And that doesn't include components for HVAC Heat pumps, which also have coolant, pumps, and heat exchangers:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138514_tesla-heat-pump-detailed-gives-a-boost-to-winter-ev-range



EVs are billed as being less complex, but that doesn't mean that they're just a big battery, some wires, and a brushless motor like a cordless drill. The powertrain of an EV is obviously very different from an ICE powertrain. But the rest of the vehicle and it's supporting systems are pretty similar. Suspension, brakes, cooling, HVAC, even gearboxes are often still there and will need to be maintained. They require lots of similar chemicals, and similar components made by the same suppliers as ICEs.

Here's the full maintenance schedule on a Rivian:

-Every 7,500 miles: Tire rotation, multi-point inspection
-Every 3 years: Brake fluid flush
-Every 112,500 miles: Coolant change; drive unit fluid change (quad motor vehicles only)


They clearly missed brake pads, but I think those will end up being a nearly 100k mile wear item. 

That schedule aligns pretty well with current ICE maintenance schedules for those systems too. Which makes sense since the fluids and most of the major components are essentially the same.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5127 on: July 11, 2024, 08:05:00 AM »
Probably the biggest downside on the EV is that, unlike an ICE car, you can't "just ignore" an air conditioning failure, because that one heat pump is what cools the battery for when you want to throw a L3/DC fast charge. Or cools the battery when you park out in the sun in a baking parking lot when it is 100F out.

Other than that its at worst the same, but likely simpler. Brakes barely get used, those won't wear like an ICE. Tires you may replace more due to all that torque you have available, although that's squarely on your behavior as the driver.

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5128 on: July 11, 2024, 08:23:50 AM »
Probably the biggest downside on the EV is that, unlike an ICE car, you can't "just ignore" an air conditioning failure, because that one heat pump is what cools the battery for when you want to throw a L3/DC fast charge. Or cools the battery when you park out in the sun in a baking parking lot when it is 100F out.

Other than that its at worst the same, but likely simpler. Brakes barely get used, those won't wear like an ICE. Tires you may replace more due to all that torque you have available, although that's squarely on your behavior as the driver.

On the flip side since the system is critical I would assume that means it was made more robust so you are less likely to lose air conditioning in the first place. An ICE vehicle has plenty of its own critical systems (including heat exchangers) for which you can't ignore a failure either.

JLee

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5129 on: July 11, 2024, 09:18:05 AM »
All this complexity is a reason that getting an EV is intimidating for a lot of people, particularly if they are not very tech savvy.

Tesla eliminates this complexity because they make route planning dead simple.  Put in your destination and you are magically routed to each fast charger needed.  Hell, the car will even start to pre-heat the battery as you get close to the charger so you get max charging speeds.

Is it simpler than just filling a gas tank?

It is, because you have to go to a gas station to fill up.  With an EV you can just charge at home.  Much simpler.

If you can't charge at home, EV's make less sense currently, IMO.

This, plus no oil changes, no belts/chains to replace and no water pump/radiator/coolant to deal with. A

Any EV with a liquid cooled battery is going to have glycol coolant, at least one pump to circulate that coolant, and a heat exchanger (radiator) of some sort.

Here's a look at the battery cooling system of a Model 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgfXyLLaO7I

And that doesn't include components for HVAC Heat pumps, which also have coolant, pumps, and heat exchangers:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138514_tesla-heat-pump-detailed-gives-a-boost-to-winter-ev-range



EVs are billed as being less complex, but that doesn't mean that they're just a big battery, some wires, and a brushless motor like a cordless drill. The powertrain of an EV is obviously very different from an ICE powertrain. But the rest of the vehicle and it's supporting systems are pretty similar. Suspension, brakes, cooling, HVAC, even gearboxes are often still there and will need to be maintained. They require lots of similar chemicals, and similar components made by the same suppliers as ICEs.

Here's the full maintenance schedule on a Rivian:

-Every 7,500 miles: Tire rotation, multi-point inspection
-Every 3 years: Brake fluid flush
-Every 112,500 miles: Coolant change; drive unit fluid change (quad motor vehicles only)


They clearly missed brake pads, but I think those will end up being a nearly 100k mile wear item. 

The unexpected expense on mine was a purchase of snow tires.  I'd been happy with all-season tires in my prior cars.  While I found the EV all-season tires broke traction similarly to my prior cars, the consequences of breaking traction in a heavy vehicle are much different than my prior smaller cars.

It also happens to be a vehicle that collects rock chips in the windshield for some reason.  I've had two visible ones in the last year.  I probably should get it replaced, but haven't done that yet.

Brake pads would be included in a multi point inspection - they do not have a replacement schedule, much like tires - just replace when worn out.

FWIW with my Model 3 Long Range, I didn't even rotate tires...sold it with ~29k miles and the tires were still wearing evenly.

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5130 on: July 11, 2024, 10:04:41 AM »
Needing the first service for my 2022 Leaf, got a nail in the tire. Been driving it since November of '21. First time anything showed up on sensor monitors. Had it in last summer for some recall notice that I didn't quite understand. Figured they could do a once over while I was there. Took 40 minutes, it didn't cost anything. Car has 40K km now. Pretty worry free driving.

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5131 on: July 11, 2024, 10:50:53 AM »
Here's the full maintenance schedule on a Rivian:

-Every 7,500 miles: Tire rotation, multi-point inspection
-Every 3 years: Brake fluid flush
-Every 112,500 miles: Coolant change; drive unit fluid change (quad motor vehicles only)


They clearly missed brake pads, but I think those will end up being a nearly 100k mile wear item. 

The unexpected expense on mine was a purchase of snow tires.  I'd been happy with all-season tires in my prior cars.  While I found the EV all-season tires broke traction similarly to my prior cars, the consequences of breaking traction in a heavy vehicle are much different than my prior smaller cars.

It also happens to be a vehicle that collects rock chips in the windshield for some reason.  I've had two visible ones in the last year.  I probably should get it replaced, but haven't done that yet.

I had the same experience, re: stock tires in winter here in Denver.  The stock tires were terrible on my MY.  They are not 'all weather' at all.  Strictly summer tires.  So I switched them out for full winter tires.

After the swap, the MY is way better in the snow than my old MDX was.  Hell, it's even better than my mom's Subaru.  That was really shocking to me.

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5132 on: July 13, 2024, 05:29:29 PM »
Two items for people like me that are really into EV's:

I went to the "Electrify Expo" in Denver today.  It was a good time, albeit hot out.  You could do a ride-along with a professional driver drifting in an Ioniq 5 or a Mach-E.  There was also a track to test-ride e-bikes.  I'd recommend it if EV's or e-bikes are something you're interested in.

https://www.electrifyexpo.com/

I also found the EVPOV newsletter.  It's just a simple email service that can notify you when new DCFC's open up in state's you care about.  I just signed up for it for Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming (state's I would drive to/through).  It's not really a necessary planning tool or anything, but I appreciate knowing when my charging options have changed. 

https://evpov.com/

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5133 on: July 13, 2024, 07:33:08 PM »
The mach e is a really weird choice there since you can't turn off the stability control nanny even in the GTs. Was it by chance the rally? (weird white disc wheels is the dead giveaway) I assume if it is a rally car it has to be able to go sideways, right?

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Re: Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?
« Reply #5134 on: July 13, 2024, 08:08:07 PM »
The mach e is a really weird choice there since you can't turn off the stability control nanny even in the GTs. Was it by chance the rally? (weird white disc wheels is the dead giveaway) I assume if it is a rally car it has to be able to go sideways, right?

I didnít verify the version, but I assume it was the rally version. They had maybe 4-5 of them in rotation, and all taking turns going sideways with passengers. Theyíd occasionally swap out a car to change tires. It looked like they were prepared to go through a couple sets of tires per car per day.

My wife did it in the Ioniq, while I stayed with the kids to keep them from melting.

 

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