Author Topic: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?  (Read 193702 times)

ysette9

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1250 on: September 02, 2020, 10:31:08 AM »
The idea that you can be president and not Christian is theoretically possible, but has never been borne out in reality.

This is one of the things I hate about the US. It feels so backward.

Psychstache

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1251 on: September 02, 2020, 11:11:40 AM »
Indeed the protestant-catholic rivalry throughout the first half of the twentieth century is under-appreciated today. The waves of Italian and Irish immigrants were subject to mistrust partly because of this divergence in faith. Were he elected, Biden would be only the second Roman Catholic to serve as President.

Agreed. While obviously not perfect, I recently watched The Tudors series from a few years ago and thought it did a great job of showcasing the conflict in a variety of ways.

One way it still shows is through the prominent and extensive network of private catholic schools across the US that persists even now. This network was built up as the universal public school system was established on protestant rhetoric and values, so Catholics built their own system as an alternative.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1252 on: September 03, 2020, 11:35:05 AM »
Was that Trudeau the younger or Trudeau the elder?

OtherJen

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1253 on: September 03, 2020, 12:16:50 PM »
Zealotry makes sense.  The US has always been a Christian nation.

You can never be elected president of the United States unless you openly profess your Christianity.  Even if you are openly Christian with a long history of following the Christian faith, you can be politically attacked (and have political damage done) by people saying that you're secretly Muslim - we all learned this when Obama was president.

The idea that you can be president and not Christian is theoretically possible, but has never been borne out in reality.

It has been a Protestant nation, not a Christian nation.  People criticized JFK's nomination because he was Roman Catholic, so he would be controlled by the Pope.

Specifically Protestant of the Prosperity Gospel variety (i.e., wealth and health are signs of God's favor).

J Boogie

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1254 on: September 03, 2020, 12:19:44 PM »
Indeed the protestant-catholic rivalry throughout the first half of the twentieth century is under-appreciated today. The waves of Italian and Irish immigrants were subject to mistrust partly because of this divergence in faith. Were he elected, Biden would be only the second Roman Catholic to serve as President.

What we lack in executive representation, we more than make up for in judicial representation in the US. And for some reason we're everywhere in the intelligence community.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1255 on: September 22, 2020, 02:17:50 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.

If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

Peter Parker

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1256 on: September 28, 2020, 09:13:47 AM »
As the OP, please help me restore my faith in the American Experiment...

For those of you that took a leap of faith and voted republican in 2016, tell me that you regret voting this way.  Tell me after 3+ years of a complete shit-show, that you wish you didn't....

Or, are we really this divided, that we can't see we have lost our way, that there is no hope for common ground...Over and over, in different social media platforms, I have asked whether people see the shit-show for what it is...a disaster.  But over and over people defend the actions of the president and the republican enablers.

Personally, I am not disappointed in Trump--he is exactly who I thought he was (okay, maybe a little worse).  What I am disappointed in, and afraid of, is that almost half of the country are still with him after this catastrophe...This makes no sense to me.  More than the possibility of Trump being re-elected, the idea that half of the country would be fine with this is completely demoralizing.

So help me out...If you voted for Trump (and the republican enablers) tell me you regret it...Please.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1257 on: September 28, 2020, 01:21:14 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.
If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

What's even more crazy is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he gets another three if re-elected: Breyer is 82. Thomas is 72, but has been on the bench for almost three decades. Finally, there's 70 year old Alito or Sotomayer who is relatively young at 66, but is only two years away from the average life expectancy of a person with Type 1 diabetes.

frugalecon

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1258 on: September 28, 2020, 02:36:32 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.
If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

What's even more crazy is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he gets another three if re-elected: Breyer is 82. Thomas is 72, but has been on the bench for almost three decades. Finally, there's 70 year old Alito or Sotomayer who is relatively young at 66, but is only two years away from the average life expectancy of a person with Type 1 diabetes.

This is a little OT, but I really wish that support would build for fixed terms (18 years?) for SCOTUS justices. It is ridiculous to have a gerontocracy playing such a major role in our lives. Along the same lines, I think that Presidents should really be people in their mid-to-late 50s. At that time you have experience, still decent physical stamina, and hopefully mental acuity.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1259 on: September 28, 2020, 02:46:08 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.
If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

What's even more crazy is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he gets another three if re-elected: Breyer is 82. Thomas is 72, but has been on the bench for almost three decades. Finally, there's 70 year old Alito or Sotomayer who is relatively young at 66, but is only two years away from the average life expectancy of a person with Type 1 diabetes.

This is a little OT, but I really wish that support would build for fixed terms (18 years?) for SCOTUS justices. It is ridiculous to have a gerontocracy playing such a major role in our lives. Along the same lines, I think that Presidents should really be people in their mid-to-late 50s. At that time you have experience, still decent physical stamina, and hopefully mental acuity.

If worst comes to worst, Presidents could just refuse to enforce what the Supreme Court says, because the Supreme Court doesn't have an army. It worked for Andrew Jackson after all.

bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1260 on: September 28, 2020, 04:16:08 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.
If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

What's even more crazy is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he gets another three if re-elected: Breyer is 82. Thomas is 72, but has been on the bench for almost three decades. Finally, there's 70 year old Alito or Sotomayer who is relatively young at 66, but is only two years away from the average life expectancy of a person with Type 1 diabetes.

This is a little OT, but I really wish that support would build for fixed terms (18 years?) for SCOTUS justices. It is ridiculous to have a gerontocracy playing such a major role in our lives. Along the same lines, I think that Presidents should really be people in their mid-to-late 50s. At that time you have experience, still decent physical stamina, and hopefully mental acuity.

If worst comes to worst, Presidents could just refuse to enforce what the Supreme Court says, because the Supreme Court doesn't have an army. It worked for Andrew Jackson after all.

Right. This has recently been done with the federal drug laws and marijuana.

frugalecon

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1261 on: September 28, 2020, 04:27:30 PM »
I have to say, none of us probably expected Trump would get a third SCOTUS nomination when this thread was most active.
If you were a conservative before 2016, this certainly must be a nice benefit from the Trump years, even if they are about to draw to a close.

What's even more crazy is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he gets another three if re-elected: Breyer is 82. Thomas is 72, but has been on the bench for almost three decades. Finally, there's 70 year old Alito or Sotomayer who is relatively young at 66, but is only two years away from the average life expectancy of a person with Type 1 diabetes.

This is a little OT, but I really wish that support would build for fixed terms (18 years?) for SCOTUS justices. It is ridiculous to have a gerontocracy playing such a major role in our lives. Along the same lines, I think that Presidents should really be people in their mid-to-late 50s. At that time you have experience, still decent physical stamina, and hopefully mental acuity.

If worst comes to worst, Presidents could just refuse to enforce what the Supreme Court says, because the Supreme Court doesn't have an army. It worked for Andrew Jackson after all.

I don't understand this comment. You mean that Presidents could just kick some of the longer-serving Justices off of the Court? I don't think that would work.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1262 on: September 28, 2020, 04:31:36 PM »
So help me out...If you voted for Trump (and the republican enablers) tell me you regret it...Please.
Can't do exactly that, but perhaps provide some reason to believe all is not lost.

Going back to the OP and that original list:
Quote
1.  Gutting of ACA and how it effects your FIRE plans...
2.  The republican tax plan
3.  Trump/Russia
4.  Less consumer protection (deregulation)
5.  Korea
6.  General lack of decorum
7.  Environmental issues/climate change issues
8.  Racial/religious (Muslim) tensions
9.  Women's rights/issues
1.  Hasn't happened (yet).  It might, but it might also be Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt spread by political opponents.
2.  One can debate the long term effects on national debt.  As someone who works a lot with the Tax-Aide and VITA programs, changes to returns were generally favorable for the "low to moderate" income folks served by those programs (100% favorable for the ones I saw).
3.  At one time there may have been legitimate concern that Trump would acquiesce to Putin expanding on the Crimean takeover.  Didn't happen.
4.  Methinks ďConsumer CarnageĒ is a bit of a stretch to describe the drop from 133 to 84 described by that article.  Small business owners I know, however, are very much in favor of reducing what they see as overly bureaucratic regulations. 
5.  Similar to Russia: much ado about nothing.
6.  100% agree with you on this.  Just don't see it as "the" reason for a voting choice.  In other words, perhaps many people are not voting "for Trump" as a person, but rather are voting based on some weighted average of how they feel about Democratic and Republican positions on the plethora of issues in the country today.  Comments such as this post about disgusting beliefs, that expose the poster's own character more than anything, make me that much less likely to vote Democratic.
7.  Maybe I'm just a dumb hick from the sticks - or maybe not ;) - but the relative costs of the "cure" vs. the "disease" on this one remain highly debatable.
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)
9.  Similar to the ACA - fear, etc., but no actual problems.  At least, that's what DW tells me.

In short, yes I agree that Trump says stupid things.  Thought he might change after winning the election, but his "my inauguration crowd was the biggest..." killed that notion quickly.  But there are policies implemented by people under him that appear better than what Biden would support.  To take one example, Dear Colleague: Itís over! Education Department rescinds controversial 2011 letter.  As parents with a daughter in college, and with a son in college, we think the current position preferable, and hope you don't find that a disastrous opinion.

If one considers that the press (both sides, of course) has a vested interest is building mountains out of molehills, and that the people with whom we work, play, volunteer, etc., can be good people whoever they may vote for, perhaps the future doesn't have to be as bleak as what Breitbart or MSNBC would have us believe if the "wrong" side wins.  Hope this helps....


bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1263 on: September 28, 2020, 05:04:01 PM »
I don't understand this comment. You mean that Presidents could just kick some of the longer-serving Justices off of the Court? I don't think that would work.

They don't have to kick anyone out- just refuse to enforce court decisions. As for the Jackson reference, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia#Enforcement

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1264 on: September 28, 2020, 05:58:51 PM »
8.  Racial/religious (Muslim) tensions
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)

Interesting.

As a Trump supporter, you believe that racial tensions in the US are the same under Trump as under Obama?  I'd say that they seem at least a modicum worse to me.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1265 on: September 28, 2020, 07:05:01 PM »
...believe that racial tensions in the US are the same under Trump as under Obama?  I'd say that they seem at least a modicum worse to me.
"Tensions" in general seem higher due to COVID - both from the disease itself and the isolation to combat it.

The degree of specifically "racial" tension is more difficult to distinguish amidst the general trend.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1266 on: September 28, 2020, 07:07:50 PM »
As the OP, please help me restore my faith in the American Experiment...
...
So help me out...If you voted for Trump (and the republican enablers) tell me you regret it...Please.

Does this make you feel better?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/27/all-the-republicans-who-have-endorsed-joe-biden-for-president/#4951ac207340

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1267 on: September 28, 2020, 07:25:31 PM »
In short, yes I agree that Trump says stupid things. 
Like saying, "You have good genes. A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different? You have good genes in Minnesota."?
How is this not blatant support for eugenics? The rest of the speech is pretty horrific, as well.


Sept 18th, Campaign Rally Speech Bemidji, Minnesota
Complete recording & transcript:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-campaign-rally-speech-bemidji-minnesota-transcript-september-18

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1268 on: September 28, 2020, 07:34:28 PM »
Like saying, "You have good genes. A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different? You have good genes in Minnesota. [They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.
...
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers.]"?

How is this not blatant support for eugenics?
I really have no idea where one could pull eugenics out of that....

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1269 on: September 28, 2020, 08:18:50 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1270 on: September 28, 2020, 08:22:36 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.

the_gastropod

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1271 on: September 28, 2020, 08:43:47 PM »
I have a friend I occasionally talk politics with that basically responds to Trump criticisms in the same fashion MDM is. Every point is looked at as though itís an isolated incident, and lots of benefit of the doubt is given, and:
- When Trump says something cruel: ďahh, yea. Heís mean. So what?Ē
- When Trump says something stupid: ďyea, Trump says stupid shit. But heís harmless.Ē
- When Trump tells you what corrupt action heís planning: ďohh, come on, heís joking!Ē
- When Trump actually succeeds in awful policy (e.g. Muslim ban, ďAnarchist jurisdictionsĒ, LGBT military bans, etc): ďitís no big deal, heíll just get blocked!Ē

Conservatives like that he has largely been unable to do much of anything (kind of a central tenet of Conservatism) and has gotten their big things done: judges in seats, taxes cut, regulations cut, antagonists heading up govt agencies (EPA, FDA, CDC, USPS, Dept. of Education, etc.) That the US has had one of the worst covid responses, despite being the most prosperous nation in history doesnít matter. That the president is very publicly stating he does not agree to a peaceful transfer of power doesnít matter. His history of tax fraud doesnít matter. His awful statements about prisoners of war and military personnel donít matter. His horrible personal behavior (cheating on his wife with a porn star as his child is being born, grab Ďem by the pussy, making fun of disabled reporters, etc.) doesnít matter. Tear gassing peaceful US citizens so that he could get a photo op holding a religious text heís never read in front of a religious building heís never entered doesnít matter. That 500 former military leaders have publicly endorsed his opponent doesnít matter. That our international approval (and all the soft power that comes along with that) has been irreparably damaged doesnít matter. That he doesnít believe in climate change, and put a climate denier at the head of the EPA doesnít matter. Conservatives like their marginally lower tax rates, and are deeply, DEEPLY terrified that the US is teetering on the edge of communism, and may soon look like Venezuela if Comrade Joe Biden is permitted to become president.

Freedom2016

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1272 on: September 28, 2020, 08:48:49 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.

This Frontline documentary about the 2016 election states that Trump supports eugenics.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/

Quote
Trumpís father instilled in him the idea that their familyís success was genetic, according to Trump biographer Michael DíAntonio.

ďThe family subscribes to a racehorse theory of human development,Ē DíAntonio says in the documentary. ďThey believe that there are superior people and that if you put together the genes of a superior woman and a superior man, you get a superior offspring.Ē

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1273 on: September 28, 2020, 08:58:37 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.

This Frontline documentary about the 2016 election states that Trump supports eugenics.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/

Quote
Trumpís father instilled in him the idea that their familyís success was genetic, according to Trump biographer Michael DíAntonio.

ďThe family subscribes to a racehorse theory of human development,Ē DíAntonio says in the documentary. ďThey believe that there are superior people and that if you put together the genes of a superior woman and a superior man, you get a superior offspring.Ē
So all those "miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers" bred eugenically to produce today's Minnesotans?

Freedom2016

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1274 on: September 28, 2020, 09:08:16 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.

This Frontline documentary about the 2016 election states that Trump supports eugenics.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/

Quote
Trumpís father instilled in him the idea that their familyís success was genetic, according to Trump biographer Michael DíAntonio.

ďThe family subscribes to a racehorse theory of human development,Ē DíAntonio says in the documentary. ďThey believe that there are superior people and that if you put together the genes of a superior woman and a superior man, you get a superior offspring.Ē
So all those "miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers" bred eugenically to produce today's Minnesotans?

Obviously.

Minnesota has the BEST miners, BEST lumberjacks, BEST fishermen, BEST farmers, BEST shipbuilders and BEST shopkeepers. Everyone is saying so. Oh, they're all white? Gee, hadn't noticed.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1275 on: September 29, 2020, 07:04:03 AM »
...believe that racial tensions in the US are the same under Trump as under Obama?  I'd say that they seem at least a modicum worse to me.
"Tensions" in general seem higher due to COVID - both from the disease itself and the isolation to combat it.

The degree of specifically "racial" tension is more difficult to distinguish amidst the general trend.

When people hold multiple month long protests of policing and racial inequality in streets across the country . . . you detect no racial tension?  That's interesting.  Can you describe what actions would need to happen then, before you considered racial tension in the country to be elevated?  What scenario are you using as a gauge to determine racial tensions?

sherr

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1276 on: September 29, 2020, 07:51:28 AM »
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)

The Democrats have chosen a devout Catholic to represent their party in the highest office of the land, and you're trying to get us to believe they have an anti-Catholic bais?

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1277 on: September 29, 2020, 09:23:41 AM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.

This Frontline documentary about the 2016 election states that Trump supports eugenics.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/

Quote
Trumpís father instilled in him the idea that their familyís success was genetic, according to Trump biographer Michael DíAntonio.

ďThe family subscribes to a racehorse theory of human development,Ē DíAntonio says in the documentary. ďThey believe that there are superior people and that if you put together the genes of a superior woman and a superior man, you get a superior offspring.Ē
So all those "miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers" bred eugenically to produce today's Minnesotans?

Maybe that's where the disconnect is. You added the content:
"They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.
...
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers."

I can get behind those qualities: grit, talent, compassion, neighborly values, etc. 
However, none of those things are genetically predisposed. So what was the point of saying "A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different?" other than to support the thought that some people are innately genetically superior to others?



RetiredAt63

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1278 on: September 29, 2020, 10:57:34 AM »
Given the travel conditions for poor immigrants back then, there probably are some genetic differences between those who left and those who arrived.  Things like the ability to survive dysentery and cholera.  I strongly doubt that is what Trump had in mind, though.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1279 on: September 29, 2020, 12:49:00 PM »
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)

The Democrats have chosen a devout Catholic to represent their party in the highest office of the land, and you're trying to get us to believe they have an anti-Catholic bais?
No, just saying that Trump's nomination of ACB shows no anti-Catholic bias.

What Democrats in general or individual Democrats think would be a separate discussion.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1280 on: September 29, 2020, 12:52:52 PM »
...believe that racial tensions in the US are the same under Trump as under Obama?  I'd say that they seem at least a modicum worse to me.
"Tensions" in general seem higher due to COVID - both from the disease itself and the isolation to combat it.

The degree of specifically "racial" tension is more difficult to distinguish amidst the general trend.

When people hold multiple month long protests of policing and racial inequality in streets across the country . . . you detect no racial tension?  That's interesting.  Can you describe what actions would need to happen then, before you considered racial tension in the country to be elevated?  What scenario are you using as a gauge to determine racial tensions?
The RIP Ruth thread had a tangent regarding the conflation of racism and police brutality - see that instead of rehashing here.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1281 on: September 29, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »
Maybe that's where the disconnect is. You added the content:
"They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.
...
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers."

I can get behind those qualities: grit, talent, compassion, neighborly values, etc. 
However, none of those things are genetically predisposed. So what was the point of saying "A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different?" other than to support the thought that some people are innately genetically superior to others?
It's a stump speech, in which a presidential candidate sprinkles a few state-specific comments. Note that it's usually best if the candidate remembers the correct state name. ;)

One might read into it that he's saying "your ancestors didn't need government help so neither do you" - a typical Republican stance.  Seems quite a stretch to go from that to eugenics, but maybe your dog-whistle hearing is genetically superior. :)


sherr

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1282 on: September 29, 2020, 01:09:09 PM »
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)

The Democrats have chosen a devout Catholic to represent their party in the highest office of the land, and you're trying to get us to believe they have an anti-Catholic bais?
No, just saying that Trump's nomination of ACB shows no anti-Catholic bias.

What Democrats in general or individual Democrats think would be a separate discussion.

Ah. Logical. It also shows that Trump has no anti-New Orleanian bias by exactly the same logic. So glad we got both of those cleared up then.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 01:18:29 PM by sherr »

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1283 on: September 29, 2020, 01:10:57 PM »
8.  Other than the Muslim-ban-that-wasn't, ...?  At least Trump isn't showing anti-Catholic bias. ;)

The Democrats have chosen a devout Catholic to represent their party in the highest office of the land, and you're trying to get us to believe they have an anti-Catholic bais?
No, just saying that Trump's nomination of ACB shows no anti-Catholic bias.

What Democrats in general or individual Democrats think would be a separate discussion.

Ah. Logical. It also shows that Trump has no anti-New Orleanian bias by exactly the same logic. So glad we got both of those cleared up then.

Also shows that Trump has no anti-white people bias.  Another burning question that has been in much doubt.

:P

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1284 on: September 29, 2020, 01:25:15 PM »
Ah. Logical. It also shows that Trump has no anti-New Orleanian bias by exactly the same logic. So glad we got both of those cleared up then.
Also shows that Trump has no anti-white people bias.  Another burning question that has been in much doubt.
Quite the pro-diversity candidate, that Trump. ;)

MasterStache

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1285 on: September 29, 2020, 03:24:21 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.
Good point.
Let's see his speech included a snide comment about refugees in the state. Followed by a nasty and baseless comment about Ilhan Omar (a Somali refugee who serves Minnesota in Congress) claiming she once married her brother. Trump then addressed the racial unrest in Minneapolis claiming Minneapolis would be gone if the National Guard hadn't stepped in. Then he moved on to gleefully boast about how an NBC correspondent of color, Ali Veshi, got injured with a non-lethal round.

With the racist warm-up complete, Trump then moves on to eugenics, which of course has been scientifically discredited. Seems context is pretty clear. I realize it doesn't matter. If you support trump then you are ok with all this and it's no big deal.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1286 on: September 29, 2020, 03:48:58 PM »
Genetics and racehorse theory doesn't raise any red flags?
None whatsoever, given the context.
Good point.
Let's see his speech included a snide comment about refugees in the state. Followed by a nasty and baseless comment about Ilhan Omar (a Somali refugee who serves Minnesota in Congress) claiming she once married her brother. Trump then addressed the racial unrest in Minneapolis claiming Minneapolis would be gone if the National Guard hadn't stepped in. Then he moved on to gleefully boast about how an NBC correspondent of color, Ali Veshi, got injured with a non-lethal round.

With the racist warm-up complete, Trump then moves on to eugenics, which of course has been scientifically discredited. Seems context is pretty clear. I realize it doesn't matter. If you support trump then you are ok with all this and it's no big deal.
Would it have been OK if Velshi were white?

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1287 on: September 29, 2020, 04:46:37 PM »
Maybe that's where the disconnect is. You added the content:
"They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.
...
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers."

I can get behind those qualities: grit, talent, compassion, neighborly values, etc. 
However, none of those things are genetically predisposed. So what was the point of saying "A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different?" other than to support the thought that some people are innately genetically superior to others?
It's a stump speech, in which a presidential candidate sprinkles a few state-specific comments. Note that it's usually best if the candidate remembers the correct state name. ;)

One might read into it that he's saying "your ancestors didn't need government help so neither do you" - a typical Republican stance.  Seems quite a stretch to go from that to eugenics, but maybe your dog-whistle hearing is genetically superior. :)

I'm still confused. What is your interpretation of Trump's purpose in mentioning genetics and Racehorse theory?

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1288 on: September 29, 2020, 05:24:13 PM »
It's a stump speech, in which a presidential candidate sprinkles a few state-specific comments. Note that it's usually best if the candidate remembers the correct state name. ;)

One might read into it that he's saying "your ancestors didn't need government help so neither do you" - a typical Republican stance.  Seems quite a stretch to go from that to eugenics, but maybe your dog-whistle hearing is genetically superior. :)

I'm still confused. What is your interpretation of Trump's purpose in mentioning genetics and Racehorse theory?


OK, let's expand the context a bit (and repeating the good link you posted: Donald Trump Campaign Rally Speech Bemidji, Minnesota Transcript September 18 - Rev):
Quote
From St. Paul to St. Cloud, from Rochester to Duluth, and from Minneapolis, thank God we still have Minneapolis, to right here, right here with all of you great people, this state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough and they were strong. You have good genes. You know that, right? You have good genes. A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different? You have good genes in Minnesota. They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.

Donald Trump: (01:56:11)
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers. But they all had one thing in common. They loved their families, they loved their countries, and they loved their God. Proud citizens like you helped build this country. And together we are taking back our country. We are returning power to you, the American people. With your help, your devotion and your drive, we are going to keep on working, weíre going to keep on fighting, and we are going to keep on winning, winning, winning.

I'll repeat: One might read into it that he's saying "your ancestors didn't need government help so neither do you" - a typical Republican stance. The key phrase being "this state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough and they were strong." Again, it's a stump speech so it wouldn't be surprising if he said the same thing in Wisconsin, Ohio, etc.

By no stretch of my imagination can I interpret that as him saying "you Minnesotans bred yourselves like racehorses into a Master Race."  Is that what you imagine?

PKFFW

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1289 on: September 29, 2020, 05:48:00 PM »
OK, let's expand the context a bit (and repeating the good link you posted: Donald Trump Campaign Rally Speech Bemidji, Minnesota Transcript September 18 - Rev):
Quote
From St. Paul to St. Cloud, from Rochester to Duluth, and from Minneapolis, thank God we still have Minneapolis, to right here, right here with all of you great people, this state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough and they were strong. You have good genes. You know that, right? You have good genes. A lot of itís about the genes, isnít it? Donít you believe? The racehorse theory you think was so different? You have good genes in Minnesota. They didnít have a lot of money. They didnít have a lot of luxury, but they had grit, they had faith, and they had each other. Thatís what you have now. You have each other.

Donald Trump: (01:56:11)
They were miners and lumberjacks, fishermen and farmers, shipbuilders and shopkeepers. But they all had one thing in common. They loved their families, they loved their countries, and they loved their God. Proud citizens like you helped build this country. And together we are taking back our country. We are returning power to you, the American people. With your help, your devotion and your drive, we are going to keep on working, weíre going to keep on fighting, and we are going to keep on winning, winning, winning.

I'll repeat: One might read into it that he's saying "your ancestors didn't need government help so neither do you" - a typical Republican stance. The key phrase being "this state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough and they were strong." Again, it's a stump speech so it wouldn't be surprising if he said the same thing in Wisconsin, Ohio, etc.

By no stretch of my imagination can I interpret that as him saying "you Minnesotans bred yourselves like racehorses into a Master Race."  Is that what you imagine?
Seriously?

Your expanded context specifically includes the part where he is telling the audience they have good genes and that a lot of it is about having good genes and race horse theory.

Why bring that up at all if not to suggest by omission that those who have not achieved the same success (however defined), don't have good genes.

I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.

the_gastropod

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1290 on: September 29, 2020, 05:51:41 PM »
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1291 on: September 29, 2020, 05:55:33 PM »
I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....
Some people can't imagine that anyone could disagree with what seems so clear to them, and will ascribe obtuseness or mental gymnastics to differing opinions.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1292 on: September 29, 2020, 06:04:50 PM »
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....

Watching MDM debate on the forums always reminds me of the adage about playing chess with a pigeon.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1293 on: September 29, 2020, 06:21:23 PM »
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....

Watching MDM debate on the forums always reminds me of the adage about playing chess with a pigeon.
Coming from one of those eugenically advanced Minnesotans.... :)

PKFFW

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1294 on: September 29, 2020, 06:33:43 PM »
I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....
Some people can't imagine that anyone could disagree with what seems so clear to them, and will ascribe obtuseness or mental gymnastics to differing opinions.
There's disagreeing with what seems clear to someone else and then there's simply denying what has been said.......in the very quote you yourself posted.

But I suppose, you are a Trump supporter, so denying something has been said, even in the face of a recording of what was actually said, should come as no surprise.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1295 on: September 29, 2020, 06:44:11 PM »
I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.

Thanks for the support. I feel like I'm in some alternate reality.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1296 on: September 29, 2020, 06:45:32 PM »
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....

Watching MDM debate on the forums always reminds me of the adage about playing chess with a pigeon.
Coming from one of those eugenically advanced Minnesotans.... :)

ďMinnesotanĒ is not a genetic reality. Regardless of what Trump the eugenicist thinks.

But hey, Iím flattered that you pay such close attention to me to know where I live.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1297 on: September 29, 2020, 06:51:08 PM »
I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....
Some people can't imagine that anyone could disagree with what seems so clear to them, and will ascribe obtuseness or mental gymnastics to differing opinions.
There's disagreeing with what seems clear to someone else and then there's simply denying what has been said.......in the very quote you yourself posted.

But I suppose, you are a Trump supporter, so denying something has been said, even in the face of a recording of what was actually said, should come as no surprise.
The original question for this tangent was How is this not blatant support for eugenics?

If you think "this state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and for their families. They were tough and they were strong." is "blatant support for eugenics" then we are far apart on basic assumptions.

Although, I'm assuming that eugenics implies some sort of selective breeding (and thus not anything Minnesota enforced).  Are you implying something else with the word "eugenics"?

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1298 on: September 29, 2020, 06:55:57 PM »
Itís really a shame mental gymnastics isnít an Olympic category....

Watching MDM debate on the forums always reminds me of the adage about playing chess with a pigeon.
Coming from one of those eugenically advanced Minnesotans.... :)

ďMinnesotanĒ is not a genetic reality. Regardless of what Trump the eugenicist thinks.

But hey, Iím flattered that you pay such close attention to me to know where I live.
Just happened to notice that at one point because we have many relatives in Minnesota. :)

And it's good to see that Minnesota hasn't practiced eugenics.  Those relatives are a good bunch, however, so it must have been luck of the draw instead of forced breeding.

MDM

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1299 on: September 29, 2020, 06:56:22 PM »
I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or not.

Thanks for the support. I feel like I'm in some alternate reality.
I know the feeling.