Do you know many multi millionaire IRL?

[iris lily]

I am interested in folks here who have a social circle in real life of people with significant assets. Let’s define “ significant” as multi-million, a level beginning at $2m.

 I tried to find 2024 statistics of household assets that are in the upper 10% in the U.S. but the Federal  Reserve report on this which seems to be the Cadillac data comes out only every 3 years with the last one issued in 2022. Given gains in the stock market, 2022 was a lifetime ago.

Anyway—certainly net worth is a function of age, and because I am old and my friends and relatives are old, I know a fair number of multi-millionaires. In flyover country. Where our homes do not rack up the majority of those assets.

I suppose most people don’t talk to those in their lives about assets but I am more open in my old age about it. For decades we shared asset  growth with only one friend who was also very frugal. He now has more money than we have, and good for him!

One of my friends recently died, and we are working with his wife, our friend, and find that he had 1.5 million in retirement funds, and because she inherited some money she’s got nearly 1,000,000 so they are OK. We know one of DHS sisters has multi millions because we know how many farms she owns or did own.

None of our siblings are hurting financially, but since they spend money like normal Americans, I doubt they have accumulated all that much beyond traditional retirement amounts, and equity in their house.

[VanillaGorilla]

Sure. I work in west coast tech, so I know plenty of people who are quite wealthy.

Directly I have friends my age on the FIRE path - typical assets are $2M invested by their early 40s. People who just maxed two 401ks since I left school will have about $1M in liquid assets, and typically another 0.5-1M in home equity.

I have somewhat older colleagues who rode various tech booms and are undoubtedly worth 5M+.

I have family members on both sides who are sensationally wealthy. One young in-law inherited massive wealth from grandparents who were profoundly successful, an uncle was a very successful executive who took a few household-name companies public, my father in law is a very successful small business owner.

It's pretty wild what shrewd asset management does over many years. Relatively small differences in lifestyle/effort/business combined with intelligent investing is even more powerful than I appreciated.

Now that everybody is getting a bit older I'm starting to recognize what a difference inherited wealth will make, as it compounds through the generations. The big societal shift to 401ks mean that the modestly wealthy will fund their retirement well, and die with significant inheritable wealth, whereas the lower 75% of society will die broke, living off social security. So the top 25% will pass their wealth on to their top 25% kids and it'll just keep growing and growing.

Funny how the affluent left wrings their hands about growing wealth inequality, yet don't seem unduly perturbed by propagating it themselves.

[reeshau]

Considering the 4% rule means $1M = $40k per year, either a lot of people are planning on attaining this level of wealth by retirement, or will be highly disappointed with their modest retirement years.  (But, probably most are ignorant of the situation)

But seriously, since I am FIRE'd, I have somewhat naturally gravitated toward the retired in my neighborhood: we're the ones around in the middle of the day.  (The at-home workers may poke their heads out for a breath of fresh air, but still largely stuck inside for meetings.)  Despite a greater prevelance of pensions, this group has a lot of well-to-do, who are always renovating their house / travelling for the summer / doing major changes to the yard  / antiquity and winery weeks.  And while this is all consumption, my neighborhood is a well-to-do but not gaudy neighborhood, built in the 90's, with a number of original owners still in place.

I find talking to them refreshing, because there is little discussion of politics or the economic worry-of-the-moment.  They are much more focused on what they are doing, and who they are doing it with.  It's like the outside world has been put on mute.

The neighborhood isn't all that, of course.  As older parents of an elementary-aged kid, the other parents still generally start conversations with "what do you do?" Which, depending on my read of how they will react, I will respond with "I'm retired" or "I'm an investor."  Either one will occasionally spark sincere questions along how we managed to retire in our late 40's.  So, I presume these folks are not in that category of assets, although many of them earn enough that they can and probably will be, eventually.

I like to joke that we ARE the wrong side of the tracks, as nice as we have it.  Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

[Loren Ver]

I'm sure I know several, two working professionals with 401ks in their 60s.  But I am betting most are less than the 2 million crowd until you start counting houses, which I don't.   

But they can't count me, I don't have 2 million.  I retired before I even had my first, second comma.   And since the goal is no longer to hoard as much money to FIRE we aren't as shy about using it when we are others need it.

Most of the people I talk to about money are in the sub million range. 

Loren

[Metalcat]

In our city location, yes, the majority of people we know are quite wealthy. In our rural location, almost no one in the entire area is wealthy, it's very working class out here.

[iris lily]

Considering the 4% rule means $1M = $40k per year, either a lot of people are planning on attaining this level of wealth by retirement, or will be highly disappointed with their modest retirement years.  (But, probably most are ignorant of the situation)

But seriously, since I am FIRE'd, I have somewhat naturally gravitated toward the retired in my neighborhood: we're the ones around in the middle of the day.  (The at-home workers may poke their heads out for a breath of fresh air, but still largely stuck inside for meetings.)  Despite a greater prevelance of pensions, this group has a lot of well-to-do, who are always renovating their house / travelling for the summer / doing major changes to the yard  / antiquity and winery weeks.  And while this is all consumption, my neighborhood is a well-to-do but not gaudy neighborhood, built in the 90's, with a number of original owners still in place.

I find talking to them refreshing, because there is little discussion of politics or the economic worry-of-the-moment.  They are much more focused on what they are doing, and who they are doing it with.  It's like the outside world has been put on mute.

The neighborhood isn't all that, of course.  As older parents of an elementary-aged kid, the other parents still generally start conversations with "what do you do?" Which, depending on my read of how they will react, I will respond with "I'm retired" or "I'm an investor."  Either one will occasionally spark sincere questions along how we managed to retire in our late 40's.  So, I presume these folks are not in that category of assets, although many of them earn enough that they can and probably will be, eventually.

I like to joke that we ARE the wrong side of the tracks, as nice as we have it.  Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

I love the bolded. Yes! We early retired oldsters are able to live our lives without day to day concern about how bills get paid.  But then, I have always lived that way. With modest middle class incomes I was fine as a single person and later fine (with DH’s assets) as a married couple.

And good lord I have  never lived in a place contingent to garaged Bentleys.

[farmecologist]

Looking at it from another angle, folks that know us have absolutely no idea we are multi millionaires in real life. 

We have been in the same modest house in the same modest neighborhood for 25+ years, and have no intention of moving anytime soon.  We drive 12+ year old vehicles.  We are pretty much the definition of "Stealth wealth", along with many others on this site.  I'd wager there are more people like us than many realize. 

On the flip side, there are many that like to maintain a "keeping up the the Joneses" lifestyle, but don't save a dime. 

My question then is, how in the world would one know who are multimillionaires?   Most folks are not keen on talking about their net worth either, which adds another layer on uncertainty. 

[VanillaGorilla]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people with nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

My question then is, how in the world would one know who are multimillionaires?   Most folks are not keen on talking about their net worth either, which adds another layer on uncertainty.

Precisely. Amongst my colleagues there's tremendous variation in how much a standard quality of life costs. Those who bought a house 10 years ago have very low overhead, those who bought similar houses recently have extremely high fixed costs. Same salary, same houses, same lifestyle, but 3x difference in cost.

[farmecologist]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people will nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

Very naïve take.  There are many that thrive for appearances and have virtually no financial skills whatsoever, which gets them into massive trouble.

[iris lily]

Looking at it from another angle, folks that know us have absolutely no idea we are multi millionaires in real life. 

We have been in the same modest house in the same modest neighborhood for 25+ years, and have no intention of moving anytime soon.  We drive 12+ year old vehicles.  We are pretty much the definition of "Stealth wealth", along with many others on this site.  I'd wager there are more people like us than many realize. 

On the flip side, there are many that like to maintain a "keeping up the the Joneses" lifestyle, but don't save a dime. 

My question then is, how in the world would one know who are multimillionaires?   Most folks are not keen on talking about their net worth either, which adds another layer on uncertainty.

I am DONE with that 12 year old vehicle bullshit. Haha! It is a major mindset shift. When I traded in my 14 year old vehicle I was still thinking of it as “fairly new”. What is wrong with my brain!!???
We got rid of it because it had some sort of problem that was not easily diagnosed. I am too old to drive unreliable cars. Anyway, my new mindset has me planning my next new car in 3 years, and a new-to-me fun car in about the same time replacing my current fun car.

On the other hand we are coddling DH’s 16 year old Ford Ranger because you cannot buy small trucks any more and he loves his small truck.

[tygertygertyger]

None confirmed. Very few suspected, maybe two... they've wondered aloud how to best leave money to their kids, so they are either getting there or already there.

My IRL group tends more toward working or middle class... some extra to spare, but I don't think they are focused on high accumulation. My siblings are counting on their spouses' pensions.

Every time a friend drops a mention of having opened an IRA, I am THRILLED for them.

ETA: A friend recently visited my house and mentioned that it seemed like my partner and I are keeping our expenses low. I was surprised they noticed, but yeah... we drive old cars, have a small cozy house, and don't eat out much. We are definitely not multis yet.

[bacchi]

I only know a few actual multi-millionaires. If we include the cash value of pensions (mostly university), there are more, but the pensions are nontransferable.

Ignoring parents,

A friend is somewhat of a spendthrift but makes a lot, saves a little, and received an inheritance.

A close friend speculated in biotech stocks. He's worth about $20M, the wealthiest of those with whom I'm close.

Friends we game with are in their 50s with more than $2M. It's from frugal living and good salaries.

We know a doctor couple that are worth more than $2M. At least, I hope so.


Of those 4, only 2 can/are early retire(d). The others spend too much.

[wenchsenior]

I don't really know for sure, since I obviously don't know financial details of all that many people, but yes I assume I know a fair number of people that likely have net worth of 2 million or more, and even more with at least a million in cash assets + whatever home equity they have. But this isn't a surprise, given that we are in a white collar information management type STEM field and close to retirement.

But I'm not sure how anyone would know for sure without actually handling that person's finances or having them be very open about the details of their situation (most people are not).

The only people I know for sure about are a few people in my family whose finances I'm directly involved in or tangentially involved in. And a couple friends with notable family + retirement wealth.

[iris lily]

I only know a few actual multi-millionaires. y university), there are more, but the pensions are nontransferable.

Ignoring parents,

A friend is somewhat of a spendthrift but makes a lot, saves a little, and received an inheritance.

A close friend speculated in biotech stocks. He's worth about $20M, the wealthiest of those with whom I'm close.

Friends we game with are in their 50s with more than $2M. It's from frugal living and good salaries.

We know a doctor couple that are worth more than $2M. At least, I hope so.


Of those 4, only 2 can/are early retire(d). The others spend too much.

No, we don’t count pensions in assets. I’m counting assets in the traditional way, and yes, that includes equity in homes.

[iris lily]

As for chatting about assets, we have done a bit more of that since retirement. And now the Greatest Generation is dying off and leaving their Boomer offspring $ so we hear about those inheritances..

One of my Boomer friends talked about, in a tone of wonder, how his mother had more than a million dollars when she died and I blurted out ( really, someone should tape my mouth shut) something like “ is that ALL she had?”

How rude of me! But I knew his mother had not seen her assets go to a nursing home so why wasn’t there more, I was thinking? Maybe very conservative investments, who knows.

[bacchi]

How rude of me! But I knew his mother had not seen her assets go to a nursing home so why wasn’t there more, I was thinking? Maybe very conservative investments, who knows.

Anything my parents don't spend from their RMDs goes into bank CDs. They always use a local bank branch so they're not hunting for the best rate either.

[joemandadman189]

i have one friend who inherited a large sum and i think invested it well, has a 7000 ft house and a separate lake house
another friend i suspect is, they are frugal, he owns a business, she does CFP stuff, they bought some farm ground
another will inherit a large sum some day, but doesn't really work, is extremely frugal
most others appear to be plodding along
we hit the $1 mil club this summer, should hit our second in about 5 years
 

[Villanelle]

Sure, there are several people in my orbit that I feel very safe assuming have $2m+.  And likely several more than have it bit live in a way that doesn't show it off (which is likely the main reason they have it) so I'd have no idea.

And I have friends on the other side of the equation, who've been making several hundred thousand since the 00s and have terrifyingly little to show for it--perhaps even near-negative net worth, in their early 50s. 

Most people I know are somewhere in the middle. 

[Ron Scott]

Only a small % of Americans have $2M+ in assets. But you’re posting on a board for people who are retiring young, some of whom believe they can live on their current assets for 50 years without working another day. It’s a relatively rich bunch.

[reeshau]

Looking at it from another angle, folks that know us have absolutely no idea we are multi millionaires in real life. 

That's an interesting take.  From my own interactions, people who find out I have retired early assume $$$$, even if they can't put a number on it.

Note, since we are in a neighborhood of striving professionals, this is usually looked on with admiration and, as I said, the tentative request for some advice or hints on how to do it.

[Captain FIRE]

Probably most of our friends? A lot of doctors, lawyers, finance people with good salaries/bonuses, 45+. A few aiming for early retirement. People have nice houses and take good vacations but aren’t overly speedy so I suspect are stashing a good deal away. At least one friend received an inheritance of some amount. I can think of one that retired early in a highly lucrative career that might even have $10m+. A bunch of our neighbors too I’m sure. Spouse’s siblings. Possibly one of my siblings. We live in a HCOL area, and a lot of friends are from grad school or college that went on to grad school.

[farmecologist]

Looking at it from another angle, folks that know us have absolutely no idea we are multi millionaires in real life. 

We have been in the same modest house in the same modest neighborhood for 25+ years, and have no intention of moving anytime soon.  We drive 12+ year old vehicles.  We are pretty much the definition of "Stealth wealth", along with many others on this site.  I'd wager there are more people like us than many realize. 

On the flip side, there are many that like to maintain a "keeping up the the Joneses" lifestyle, but don't save a dime. 

My question then is, how in the world would one know who are multimillionaires?   Most folks are not keen on talking about their net worth either, which adds another layer on uncertainty.

I am DONE with that 12 year old vehicle bullshit. Haha! It is a major mindset shift. When I traded in my 14 year old vehicle I was still thinking of it as “fairly new”. What is wrong with my brain!!???
We got rid of it because it had some sort of problem that was not easily diagnosed. I am too old to drive unreliable cars. Anyway, my new mindset has me planning my next new car in 3 years, and a new-to-me fun car in about the same time replacing my current fun car.

On the other hand we are coddling DH’s 16 year old Ford Ranger because you cannot buy small trucks any more and he loves his small truck.

I forgot to say that both of our 2012 vehicles are in mint condition AND have very low miles for their age ( 50K miles on one and 65K on the other )!  So it is a no brainer to keep them.  The low mileage is due to a combination of working from home a lot for both of us the last few years, and our other "daily driver" vehicle (see below).

We also have another 2012 as a "daily driver" ( a 2012 Prius v wagon with 180K miles ).  The thing has been solid.

As for "fun cars"?  Eh...cars are appliances to us, but I do see the appeal for others, I guess.  I'd rather spend elsewhere.  Plus, I like working on our cars and save a ton of money there as well!  It keeps me sane from the tech desk job I've had for 30+years.

[spartana]

My SO (not married, live together but keep separate finances). Sold his paid off coastal SoCal house awhile ago for $1.5 million plus inherited and sold a property in Hawaii for over a million (split with sibs) plus his own investments which have grown since the pandemic and well over the $1 - $2 MM range  (like me he lives the inexpensive simple life and doesn't spend much) plus a decent Gov pension he recently started to receive once he was 50. He hasn't touched his investments since he FIRE a couple years ago and doesn't even spend much from his pension and just invests whatever he doesn't spend. And yes he drives a 12 year old pick up truck with no desire to upgrade. We both practice stealth wealth although he's much wealthier than me!

Other than that it's mostly people I know that have expensive houses (often bought years ago for a much lower cost) who cashed them out and moved out of coastal Calif. I don't really have any close friends here anymore and don't talk finances with casual ones.

[Bartlebooth]

A fair amount, yes.

My parents have been stuffing retirement funds all their lives, even with 4 kids.  So almost surely, though I have not asked.
DW's grandparents had just over $2m although both have recently passed now.  Good military retirement and then continued work and saving.
My uncle sold a software business and retired in his 30s and has a huge lake house so I'm going to say yes on that one.
My close friend's dad had a solid career in banking and then ran his own consulting company--pretty certain $2+m for him.
I sort of know (faded over the years) a couple of the guys that own larger parts of the software company that I own 1% of.  They are likely in the 10-20m range.
DW's relative was a big-time exec, guessing $80m if I had to throw out a number.
Another DW's relatives: a DINK couple in legal and tech, kind of modest with spending, and have "abnormal" ideas like sailing the great loop relatively soon.  All signs that they must be up in that range, I think.
There are several family friends of varying closeness that have done well with mineral rights during the oil boom.
Depending how you want to stretch "social circle", when I worked at a non-profit it was like a revolving door of wealthy people.  Many as donors and/or board members, and some as coworkers (people with "enough" and just seeking rewarding work or financial top-up I suppose).  So I would frequently cross paths with those cohorts at various events and social gatherings.

I think that $2m is an interesting cutoff point.  Kind of a dividing line between someone who was a decent saver and is now in their 60s (just under $2m, I envision) and someone with above average discipline and/or other achievements.

[okits]

I think that $2m is an interesting cutoff point.  Kind of a dividing line between someone who was a decent saver and is now in their 60s (just under $2m, I envision) and someone with above average discipline and/or other achievements.

It is an interesting cut off point.

In my friend group, most people are doing pretty well for themselves but (I think) fall short of the cutoff.  The few that don't got an inheritance or are significantly older (more time to save and grow assets). 

I think the friend group I've made from this forum probably has a bunch of people over the cut off.  Maybe we'll discuss it the next time we get together for a walk and homemade hummus.

[Dicey]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people will nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

Very naïve take.  There are many that thrive for appearances and have virtually no financial skills whatsoever, which gets them into massive trouble.

Agreed. See: Legions of formerly highly paid sports professionals. See also: Lottery winners.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Yes, absolutely. We live in the bay area/work with a lot of people in tech. For family & friends not in the bay area/tech circle, can't think of anyone.

[Dicey]

To the original question: I know a number of people who I am sure are in this category, and many more who most likely are. I belong to a couple of philanthropic orgs, and there are some big money donors among us. If you can donate, say, $500k, you are probably worth far more than that. I do not donate at that level, but I am a "known" donor. I love attending fund raising events in an outfit that's borrowed/rented/thrifted/worn-again. I figure that just lets me be even more generous. Of course, DH's tuxedo is thrifted, too.

I also live in a HCOLA, and most of my friends are old like me, so it's not surprising, really.

I live in a fancy-pants house, we drive nice enough cars. My 2014 is our "new" car. Who would know if we have no mortgage, car payments or credit debt of any kind?

Today I hosted a large event, complete with emceeing duties. I got so many compliments on the boots I was wearing. I said, "Thanks, I got them at (the thrift shop where I volunteer)." Their response? "You always say that!" And I always will ;-)

[Freedomin5]

My first reaction was to say, of course we know several! We live in a VHCOL neighbourhood in VHCOL city, DD goes to an expensive private school, people drive nice cars. Just yesterday, as DD and I were walking home from school, a bright yellow Lamborghini drove past us. DD laughed at the car, called it the funniest-looking car ever, asked what kind of car that was, and now calls yellow Lambos "Pancake Cars" because they are so flat and so yellow. There must be many multi-millionaires in this environment!

But then I thought again, and amongst our coworkers and acquaintances, we probably only know a handful of people who have more than 2M. Some of them carry designer bags and are always in and out of the country flying to their various homes in Malibu and New York City and Singapore and Hong Kong and Taiwan, so just counting the number of homes they own and looking at the locations, you can tell they have money.

Amongst my parents' generation, we know a few. Most of them became wealthy through the appreciation of their primary residence in a VHCOLA.

Others we know through the non-profit world. These are people who seem to be able to fly to developing countries, on their own dime, for months at a time, and not need to fundraise their ministry expenses. Or they have lots of time to devote to volunteer activities without seeming to have to work for a living. They have to be funding their activities somehow.

Within my generation though (we are in our early 40s), there don't seem to be many. Our social circle is mainly comprised of university-educated white-collar professionals.

[PoutineLover]

I don't know exact numbers but I belong to a club that definitely includes millionaires, even excluding principal residence. Lots of lawyers, doctors, financiers, people who sit on boards of hospitals etc. People aren't flashy about it but you can tell.

I'm still young but I expect that my household's net worth will eventually exceed 1 million on our current path. This forum is definitely stacked with above average earners who travel in privileged circles.

[secondcor521]

Several in several categories:

1.  My parents' fellow residents in their fancy CCRC are probably all over the $2M mark based on the high four figure monthly rent amounts and very few residents moving out due to finances.  One was a CEO of several big companies and made some big money moves and was at about $800M (but still bought and drank Two Buck Chuck).

2.  I was tangentially acquainted with JR Simplot, who was a billionaire when he passed away.

3.  I play bridge with a bunch of people in their 70s through 90s.  Most of them drive nice cars and have been retired for decades and wear some nice jewelry.  I'm sure half of them are $2M+.

4.  Several family members are at $2M+.  Several more family members will clearly get there in their lifetimes.  Mostly all a combination of accumulated inheritances or Millionaire Next Door behavior over decades or both.

5.  A handful of high school classmates have done well for themselves.  One appears to be in the $20M range just based on Facebook posts (private jets, really fancy horses, yachts, $500/night hotels, etc.).  Another few are at or above the $2M just based on their careers and lifestyles and other facts I know about them.

6.  Forum acquaintances here, E-R.org, and Bogleheads - lots of people at $2M+

7.  I have a neighbor who is probably close to $2M just based on sidewalk conversations.

But I also have lots of friends and acquaintances who just have regular incomes and net worth amounts - probably 75%+ of the people I know.  Most people know I retired early at 46, but I don't disclose finances beyond that fact other than very broad generalities like "I don't have to work".  And my lifestyle is very moderate - an older car, an average sized home in an ordinary neighborhood, no flashy toys or hobbies.  I tend to think that it's easier to be friends with people if there isn't any "net worth envy" going on.

[GilesMM]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

[twinstudy]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people will nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

Very naïve take.  There are many that thrive for appearances and have virtually no financial skills whatsoever, which gets them into massive trouble.

Agreed. See: Legions of formerly highly paid sports professionals. See also: Lottery winners.

Well I don't think lottery winners and NBA players are a good reflection of the overall type. They are the ultimate outliers.

I agree with VanillaGorilla that the trope of 'oh the person with expensive things likely is just in debt up to her eyeballs' is pretty tired, and often used as a cope by people who somehow think that the world must be relatively balanced or just. There is no reason to suspect that someone driving a $400k Ferrari has spent any greater proportion of his wage than someone driving a $30k Honda. I have several mates who bought $200k+ cars and all of them afforded them easily. Put it this way: if you are not FIRE minded and are willing to work to age 65, then you can spend nearly an infinite amount of money. Two high-earning professionals who work and invest till age 65 will end up with dozens of millions of dollars, easily enough to afford a nice car, nice boat and nice house without any sort of financial strain whatsoever.

As to the original question, yes, most of my friends group are in law or medicine, so I know plenty of multimillionaires and have become inured to it.

[Dave1442397]

I know several people who are well into the multi-millionaire status. One guy leases a jet to get around the country, so he's doing ok.

I had a casual acquaintance who always wore nice clothes, and I knew he had a small plane (I forget what model, but a Cessna). During conversation it came out that his family business was a major-league supplier of auto parts. It turned out he was worth at least $100MM, and I had no idea!

I'm sure I know a few other people with net worth over $2MM, but as people said, you never really know what people have. I've talked financial strategy with friends, but without revealing actual numbers.

There are a lot of us with the same mindset when it comes to investing, but there are also people like the guy I worked with who wanted a new RV and went out and bought it, even though he couldn't sell the one that was already parked in his yard. He said he never bothered saving for retirement because no one in his family had lived past age 70, so he was claiming SS at 62 and spending it all. He better hope he's not the outlier on the family lifespan curve!

[Ron Scott]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

OK, I like provocative ideas, so I’ll bite:

What do you think a “meaningful lifestyle change” that requires a minimum of $100M looks like, and why do you believe a difference in net worth between, for example, $1.5M and $75M cannot result in lifestyle changes that are “meaningful”?

[reeshau]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people will nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

Very naïve take.  There are many that thrive for appearances and have virtually no financial skills whatsoever, which gets them into massive trouble.

Agreed. See: Legions of formerly highly paid sports professionals. See also: Lottery winners.

Well I don't think lottery winners and NBA players are a good reflection of the overall type. They are the ultimate outliers.

I agree with VanillaGorilla that the trope of 'oh the person with expensive things likely is just in debt up to her eyeballs' is pretty tired, and often used as a cope by people who somehow think that the world must be relatively balanced or just. There is no reason to suspect that someone driving a $400k Ferrari has spent any greater proportion of his wage than someone driving a $30k Honda. I have several mates who bought $200k+ cars and all of them afforded them easily. Put it this way: if you are not FIRE minded and are willing to work to age 65, then you can spend nearly an infinite amount of money. Two high-earning professionals who work and invest till age 65 will end up with dozens of millions of dollars, easily enough to afford a nice car, nice boat and nice house without any sort of financial strain whatsoever.

As to the original question, yes, most of my friends group are in law or medicine, so I know plenty of multimillionaires and have become inured to it.

I think it's true that many people go with the story that "the rich have problems, too" largely to feel better about themselves.  I also think that they do have more problems than you might say.  Why both?   Because there is very little data on it, so both are mental exercises, rather than facts.

There are people who claim 10% of millionaires will declare bankruptcy, and that the average millionaire declares bankruptcy 3.5 times.  These people tend to be selling something; either bankruptcy services, or advice about avoiding bankruptcy.  But all our signals are consumption-based, not asset-based.  Any flashy item could be rented or leased, rather than owned.  And wealth isn't necessarily liquid wealth; a private practice, partnership, or large plots of land may not be easily sold at the times money is needed.  In this way, bankruptcies can be strategic, to preserve significant things that can be preserved.  When certain assets are preserved, it can be a process, not the End of All Things.  (Think of a $100M house not as a gaudy excess to rival the gods, but as a giant hedge against bankruptcy; an asset that can be preserved, and perhaps sold to others not to live in,  but also to preserve assets)

[cupcakery]

There are a handful of people that I know are multimillionaires, because I've helped them with their finances or in a couple of cases they've told me about the businesses that they sold.  We have a few people that we think might be multimillionaires, based upon what we can see.  This includes a family member that sold his share of a company and we think it must have had a decent payout.  Everyone else, who knows?  There are so many people out there who look like they are doing well, but are drowning in debt and others who look destitute, but have lots of savings and investments.  We have friends who think we're poor, because we don't have a fancy house and lots of stuff.  They make comments sometimes, and I don't correct them.  Meanwhile, he's 60 and out of work, unemployment/severance is running out and they are freaking out.  They have a lot of really nice things. 

[Greystache]

All of my friends who are my age (65) are multi millionaires. Most of them are retired aerospace workers. Most of us live in fairly modest homes, but living in coastal SoCal, even modest homes are worth a million bucks. One odd thing I have noticed is that my LA county friends tend to drive older American, Japanese or Korean cars and my Orange county friends drive new Teslas, or German cars.

[Villanelle]

Cross one major road to the north, and out come the Ferraris and Bentleys on the weekend.  They pull back in to subdivisions with professional golfer-designed courses.  All those folks certainly earn a lot, but that level of consumption makes me wonder how much they have, particularly if their houses are excluded.

On these forums people like to condescend to people with expensive possessions, but from my small dataset people will nice cars and houses tend to have earned them many times over. I'm extremely leery of assuming that someone must be broke because they have a nice car/house/watch - I tend to assume the opposite: that nobody buys a Ferrari unless the expensive is trivial to them.

Very naïve take.  There are many that thrive for appearances and have virtually no financial skills whatsoever, which gets them into massive trouble.

Agreed. See: Legions of formerly highly paid sports professionals. See also: Lottery winners.

Well I don't think lottery winners and NBA players are a good reflection of the overall type. They are the ultimate outliers.

I agree with VanillaGorilla that the trope of 'oh the person with expensive things likely is just in debt up to her eyeballs' is pretty tired, and often used as a cope by people who somehow think that the world must be relatively balanced or just. There is no reason to suspect that someone driving a $400k Ferrari has spent any greater proportion of his wage than someone driving a $30k Honda. I have several mates who bought $200k+ cars and all of them afforded them easily. Put it this way: if you are not FIRE minded and are willing to work to age 65, then you can spend nearly an infinite amount of money. Two high-earning professionals who work and invest till age 65 will end up with dozens of millions of dollars, easily enough to afford a nice car, nice boat and nice house without any sort of financial strain whatsoever.

As to the original question, yes, most of my friends group are in law or medicine, so I know plenty of multimillionaires and have become inured to it.

The Facebook algorithm has decided I must be really into the Real Housewives.  In the last few days, I've seen stories about 2 of them (once from OC and one from Beverly Hills) with major debt problems, and the Beverly Hills one said they were about to lose their house.  I didn't read the stories so I can't provide details, but these are people who live lavish lifestyles, have huge homes, wear designer clothes, carry $10,000 handbags, etc.

I certainly don't think every person with a lot of fancy stuff is surely broke, but I also don't think they are surely actually rich, either.

( I just googled it and the BH family has about $1m in tax debt, and "Dorit settled over $800,000 in debt to a closet organizing service," among other gems.)
 

[VanillaGorilla]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

OK, I like provocative ideas, so I’ll bite:

What do you think a “meaningful lifestyle change” that requires a minimum of $100M looks like, and why do you believe a difference in net worth between, for example, $1.5M and $75M cannot result in lifestyle changes that are “meaningful”?

I've mused about this regularly.

This is where the absurd American idea of the 'middle class' comes from (ie everybody considers themselves middle class). I have friends who rail against 'the rich' when their household income and net worth is easily in the top 10% or 5%. There's nothing middle about their economic situation, yet they feel like they're part of the oppressed hoi polloi.

Why this cognitive dissonance? Because lifestyle differences are very minute between the 50th percentile, the 90th percentile, and the 95th percentile. It's not until you get to truly rarified economic strata before you see a meaningful change in lifestyle. People live in houses, they own cars, they go on vacations, and they go to work and feel indebted to their boss. Whether you make $100k or $300k doesn't really change that.

Most very wealthy people will never be able to afford a chauffeur, a private jet, or a mansion on Cape Cod. Instead we all have single family homes of slightly larger or smaller size, fly economy to Hawaii and stay in nicer or less nice hotels, drive more used or less used Teslas. This is the observation that Mustachianism is based on: the acknowledgement that you can enjoy 95% of the lifestyle for about 30% of the cost. Our society is so advanced that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything. We're living on a log scale. People in poverty are close to zero and in the developed world we're far from zero.

More generally it's empowering to acknowledge just how ridiculously good we have it, whether you have $100k, $1M, or $5M.

[Ron Scott]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

OK, I like provocative ideas, so I’ll bite:

What do you think a “meaningful lifestyle change” that requires a minimum of $100M looks like, and why do you believe a difference in net worth between, for example, $1.5M and $75M cannot result in lifestyle changes that are “meaningful”?

I've mused about this regularly.

This is where the absurd American idea of the 'middle class' comes from (ie everybody considers themselves middle class). I have friends who rail against 'the rich' when their household income and net worth is easily in the top 10% or 5%. There's nothing middle about their economic situation, yet they feel like they're part of the oppressed hoi polloi.

Why this cognitive dissonance? Because lifestyle differences are very minute between the 50th percentile, the 90th percentile, and the 95th percentile. It's not until you get to truly rarified economic strata before you see a meaningful change in lifestyle. People live in houses, they own cars, they go on vacations, and they go to work and feel indebted to their boss. Whether you make $100k or $300k doesn't really change that.

Most very wealthy people will never be able to afford a chauffeur, a private jet, or a mansion on Cape Cod. Instead we all have single family homes of slightly larger or smaller size, fly economy to Hawaii and stay in nicer or less nice hotels, drive more used or less used Teslas. This is the observation that Mustachianism is based on: the acknowledgement that you can enjoy 95% of the lifestyle for about 30% of the cost. Our society is so advanced that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything. We're living on a log scale. People in poverty are close to zero and in the developed world we're far from zero.

More generally it's empowering to acknowledge just how ridiculously good we have it, whether you have $100k, $1M, or $5M.

Of course. Perspective is so important and can make the difference in having a “happy” life.

I feel this existentially, in the sense of the old idiom: “The rich are different than you and I. They have more money.” In other words, people are people, and that’s fair.

I also firmly believe the moon belongs to everyone; the best things in life are free.

And, again, those with $3M bitching about those with $33 are unintentionally funny.

But I do think there’s a difference between retiring at 55 with $1.5 million and far more…say $10M…$40M…$50M…that can reflect itself in meaningful ways. Owning a couple, 3 homes in places you really like, with a few friends here and there can be nice. (They don’t have to be mansions to be really nice BTW.) Giving millions to charities and family as part of your lifestyle is meaningful. Getting a knee replacement by one of the top doctors that doesn’t take insurance because she’s considered so good can make a real difference too.

It’s all a matter of perspective and many people can find meaningful differences where others cannot. To those with $90M I can only hope the money brings them additional joy. I like seeing people who’ve had that kind of luck/success in life. And to those with a few hundred K, I hope they are enjoying a happy life too, knowing there will always be a glass of wine in the moonlight before loving sex just for the asking, and so on.

A lack of jealousy and a tempered sense of pride is more important that money, but having that $75M can STILL be meaningful to those who know how to enjoy it.

[YttriumNitrate]

Only a small % of Americans have $2M+ in assets. But you’re posting on a board for people who are retiring young, some of whom believe they can live on their current assets for 50 years without working another day. It’s a relatively rich bunch.

Supposdely, 6.25% of American households are multi-millionaires, with about 1 in 10 having at least one million [1] Based solely on real estate appreciation, the parents of my childhood friends in the DC area should all be multi-millionaires now (unless they drained their wealth along the way with home equity loans).

[Spiffy]

 My parents are. They had already done a good job investing for retirement but reached multimillion when my mom inherited a large part of her parent's farm, which was worth 8 million dollars. She was so happy when she told me that one day I would inherit part of it and that I would be a millionaire. I didn't let her know that I will already have a million before I get any from her!

[seattlecyclone]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

Oh man, hard disagree. Take someone with a $50 million net worth. That's only halfway to the very bottom of the "nine figure club." They could buy a palatial $10 million house and still have $40 million liquid to pay their bills. Per the 4% rule that's about $1.6 million annually. That's plenty to hire a few household staff to take care of your every need at home and also buy season tickets on the 50 yard line, stay at very exclusive vacation destinations, and rent a private jet several times a year to get you to these places.

This is still a far cry from "I own a penthouse condo in each of my ten favorite cities plus a private island in the Bahamas and a personal jet waiting at the nearest airport 24/7" levels of wealth, but to say the lifestyle available to someone with $50 million is basically the same as the lifestyle available to someone with $2 million or $5 million is simply incorrect.

[iris lily]

We had a wide circle of friends in our urban core neighborhood where people were house proud and spent a lot of money on their house, some of it necessary to keep the old houses standing and some of it unnecessary upgrades. But we always knew who had money, although we never knew who was able to hang onto it.

One of our friends who made a lot of money, went to a car dealership and filled out the paperwork to finance a car. The finance guy said to him "you gave us your annual salary, we want your monthly salary on this form." Ha ha yeah he really made that much and man did he and his partner ever spend it, they were purchasing houses for his mom, his partner's mom, rental property here and there, so he was an example of someone who made a lot of money, but I'm not sure how much he actually HAD. The fact that he had to finance a car and we're not talking about a Bentley here is an indication.

[EvenSteven]

Probably, but now that I think of it, I don't know with any certainty the net worth of anyone other than myself.

[iris lily]

To see a meaningful lifestyle change, you need to be in the 9 figure range these days. Otherwise, it is just about the same routine of homes, cars, chores, etc but perhaps with just a bit nicer surroundings.

OK, I like provocative ideas, so I’ll bite:

What do you think a “meaningful lifestyle change” that requires a minimum of $100M looks like, and why do you believe a difference in net worth between, for example, $1.5M and $75M cannot result in lifestyle changes that are “meaningful”?

I've mused about this regularly.

This is where the absurd American idea of the 'middle class' comes from (ie everybody considers themselves middle class). I have friends who rail against 'the rich' when their household income and net worth is easily in the top 10% or 5%. There's nothing middle about their economic situation, yet they feel like they're part of the oppressed hoi polloi.

Why this cognitive dissonance? Because lifestyle differences are very minute between the 50th percentile, the 90th percentile, and the 95th percentile. It's not until you get to truly rarified economic strata before you see a meaningful change in lifestyle. People live in houses, they own cars, they go on vacations, and they go to work and feel indebted to their boss. Whether you make $100k or $300k doesn't really change that.

Most very wealthy people will never be able to afford a chauffeur, a private jet, or a mansion on Cape Cod. Instead we all have single family homes of slightly larger or smaller size, fly economy to Hawaii and stay in nicer or less nice hotels, drive more used or less used Teslas. This is the observation that Mustachianism is based on: the acknowledgement that you can enjoy 95% of the lifestyle for about 30% of the cost. Our society is so advanced that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything. We're living on a log scale. People in poverty are close to zero and in the developed world we're far from zero.

More generally it's empowering to acknowledge just how ridiculously good we have it, whether you have $100k, $1M, or $5M.

Agreed. I laugh when people rail against " the 1%" and I want to say, "dude, you ARE the 1% worldwide."

[Just Joe]

Only a small % of Americans have $2M+ in assets. But you’re posting on a board for people who are retiring young, some of whom believe they can live on their current assets for 50 years without working another day. It’s a relatively rich bunch.

Supposdely, 6.25% of American households are multi-millionaires, with about 1 in 10 having at least one million [1] Based solely on real estate appreciation, the parents of my childhood friends in the DC area should all be multi-millionaires now (unless they drained their well along the way with home equity loans).

Isn't that still more than 21M people though?

Several of my parents' friends are x2+ millionnaires. Nice homes, Nice ZIP codes. A few toys. Still, not conspicious. And it remains to be seen how much it will cost them to leave this world i.e. nursing care. A relative of our's has had a very expensive year. A few years like this and many people would be facing medical bankruptcy.

DW and I have aspired to be like our parents' social circle. Secure and comfortable. Not conspicious. Not country club material. Definitely millionaire next door types. We're well on our way with retirement on the horizon. We drive ordinary cars, wear ordinary clothes, work ordinary jobs, go ordinary places. We're savers not spenders. What we don't have are piles of cash to spend b/c modest incomes and savings goals.

[twinstudy]

Why this cognitive dissonance? Because lifestyle differences are very minute between the 50th percentile, the 90th percentile, and the 95th percentile. It's not until you get to truly rarified economic strata before you see a meaningful change in lifestyle. People live in houses, they own cars, they go on vacations, and they go to work and feel indebted to their boss. Whether you make $100k or $300k doesn't really change that.

Most very wealthy people will never be able to afford a chauffeur, a private jet, or a mansion on Cape Cod. Instead we all have single family homes of slightly larger or smaller size, fly economy to Hawaii and stay in nicer or less nice hotels, drive more used or less used Teslas. This is the observation that Mustachianism is based on: the acknowledgement that you can enjoy 95% of the lifestyle for about 30% of the cost. Our society is so advanced that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything. We're living on a log scale. People in poverty are close to zero and in the developed world we're far from zero.

More generally it's empowering to acknowledge just how ridiculously good we have it, whether you have $100k, $1M, or $5M.

Private jet is certainly expensive and out of reach for normal people, but you don't have to be 'very rich' (i.e. 8 figure net worth) to own multiple family homes (which I think is definitely an upgrade in lifestyle - there is real convenience to being able to live/work at multiple locations) or a holiday house, and it's also easy as a normal multimillionaire to fly business class especially with points or work deductions. I also suggest that expensive cars are much cheaper than people think; if you buy the right car at the right point in its depreciation curve, the cost of running the car is really modest - a 488GTB (Ferrari) for example retails today at around 85% of its original price despite being a 6-year-old car. The main loss is of course the opportunity cost of the money you used to buy the car, which could have been put into investments; but it's at least far better than financing the car which is a dumb strategy. A lot of expensive things are pretty cheap by normal multi-millionaire standards as long as you figure out the hacks.

[Ron Scott]

My parents are. They had already done a good job investing for retirement but reached multimillion when my mom inherited a large part of her parent's farm, which was worth 8 million dollars. She was so happy when she told me that one day I would inherit part of it and that I would be a millionaire. I didn't let her know that I will already have a million before I get any from her!

There’s a joke about an older couple at a Mercedes dealership, eyeing a loaded S-Class with the salesman on their heels offering to answers any questions. The wife tells the salesman they’re concerned because they want to leave the bulk of their wealth to the kids and the salesman says “If you don't buy it I guarantee your kids will be driving one as soon as you’re gone.”

This joke is funnier to young people because many older wealthy types would actually rather leave the bulk of their assets to their kids than spend it.

It’s amazing how much better giving is in comparison to spending for many people. Your mom sounds like one of them. She loves you.