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Moustaches

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« on: November 10, 2016, 06:57:30 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 11:23:11 AM by Moustaches »

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 07:19:42 AM »
Honestly - I thought about this before the elections. Suppose you actually had a way to rig the elections and what planning to do so. What's the best way to ensure you'll escape detection and scrutiny? Why not tell your followers that your opponent is planning to rig the elections? Your opponent will predictably spend a lot of time explaining to everyone how impossibly hard it would be to rig the elections. They will go on at length about the security of our election process, and assure everybody that there is nothing at risk. Perfect! Now if your opponent becomes suspicious that you've rigged the election in the wake of an unexpected result, they'll look like a hypocrite! If they find impropriety and try to point it our, then your followers will be apoplectic and see it as evidence that you were right all along! There no possible way that your opponent could raise the issue without civil unrest.

Now, do I believe that's what happened? No, I don't. The demographic trends were pretty clear and pretty uniform across the entire Midwest, and every one of those states has different election procedures that would be next to impossible to rig independently. But I will say that Wisconsin's results were easily the most surprising.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:51:56 AM by Mississippi Mudstache »

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 07:45:42 AM »
Come on. A week ago the left was saying suggesting the elections wouldn't be fair was ghastly, unpatriotic, and weakened the legitimacy of democracy.

 I think the turnout numbers were just different than people expected, and actually voting for Clinton was difficult. (I did it, it sucked.)

ncornilsen

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 07:51:21 AM »
There's an easy explanation for the difference in polls versus what happened: A media with a clear favorite did everything to make supporting Trump a social faux  pas, so nobody admitted to the pollsters who they wanted to vote for. And trump did everything he could to undermine the credibility of the media in his supporter's eyes, so alot of them didn't even want to talk to pollsters.

MandalayVA

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 07:53:33 AM »
I'm amazed that it took this long for me to read the first conspiracy theory regarding the election.  However, it is not a good amazement.

Trump won, Clinton lost.  Bottom line.  I'd hoped for a different outcome, but it wasn't to be.  The people have spoken and I accept that.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 07:57:25 AM »
There's an easy explanation for the difference in polls versus what happened: A media with a clear favorite did everything to make supporting Trump a social faux  pas, so nobody admitted to the pollsters who they wanted to vote for. And trump did everything he could to undermine the credibility of the media in his supporter's eyes, so alot of them didn't even want to talk to pollsters.

That may be an easy explanation (and it may even be partially true), but it's hardly the only reason. I think the bigger reason will be that the demographic weighting used by the pollsters was off, because rural whites turned out in larger numbers than they did in previous elections. Add in the fact that polls are harder to conduct now that half of Americans don't have landlines, and you have a recipe ripe for polling error. And, as Nate Silver pointed out, the polling error wasn't even particularly large:

"If Clinton had done just 2 points better, pollsters would have called the popular-vote margin almost on the nose and correctly identified the winner in all states but North Carolina."

Jack

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 08:51:06 AM »
If you're worried about this, then the correct course of action is to lobby for auditable voting machines.

There is no excuse whatsoever for voting machines not to (a) be open source so that anyone can audit the code, and (b) print a paper receipt (into a lockbox so the voter can't take it with him) so that the voters and vote-counters can audit the election results.

wenchsenior

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 09:03:25 AM »
There's an easy explanation for the difference in polls versus what happened: A media with a clear favorite did everything to make supporting Trump a social faux  pas, so nobody admitted to the pollsters who they wanted to vote for. And trump did everything he could to undermine the credibility of the media in his supporter's eyes, so alot of them didn't even want to talk to pollsters.

That may be an easy explanation (and it may even be partially true), but it's hardly the only reason. I think the bigger reason will be that the demographic weighting used by the pollsters was off, because rural whites turned out in larger numbers than they did in previous elections. Add in the fact that polls are harder to conduct now that half of Americans don't have landlines, and you have a recipe ripe for polling error. And, as Nate Silver pointed out, the polling error wasn't even particularly large:

"If Clinton had done just 2 points better, pollsters would have called the popular-vote margin almost on the nose and correctly identified the winner in all states but North Carolina."

Yeah...I think this is a lot of it. I suspect Clinton voters (who probably were pretty accurately polled) just didn't all turn out in the end because of lack of enthusiasm; whereas Trump voters (who might have been slightly underrepresented in polling because of lack of voting history) all turned out. And the 'undecideds' likely broke for Trump in the end. 

Certainly not vote rigging, which would be nearly impossible to do anything other than a smallish scale anyway because of the variable voting systems across the states.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 09:41:49 AM »
While the polls had HRC as clear winner so many times over the past 6 months I noticed one very interesting anomaly.

I have had numerous friends over the election year post a common facebook status which garnered a crazy amount of responses, "go to HRC's and Trump's FB Pages and report back how many of your friends "like" each candidate".

Now this isn't the best sample size or polling method, but regardless of the posters race, socioeconomic status, gender, geographic location, etc the people commenting swayed to Trump in overwhelming numbers. All this while the "polls" on TV and in the papers reported a HRC lead.

I think the media being widely liberal tried to make it sound like Trump had no chance to the bitter end, and the liberal masses wanted oh so much to believe it.

PS - I am neither a Trump nor HRC supporter, these are merely my observations.

wenchsenior

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 10:38:22 AM »

I think the media being widely liberal tried to make it sound like Trump had no chance to the bitter end, and the liberal masses wanted oh so much to believe it.

PS - I am neither a Trump nor HRC supporter, these are merely my observations.

I think you are generally correct that a lot of media people didn't/couldn't believe Trump had a chance, and liberal voters like me thought he did but hoped I was wrong.  But that doesn't explain the polling problem at all. We aren't talking about the same kind of media bubble that the GOP was in during the months leading up to the [important edit] 2012 election. In that election, the (properly conducted) polls were extremely accurate all the way through the cycle, and the statistical modellers aggregating and crunching those numbers were also very accurate in their predictions. The disconnect there was that the GOP talking heads and voters just didn't BELIEVE the polls were accurate.

What happened this election is that both camps believed the polls (Trump camp didn't expect to win, and Clinton camp expected a narrow win but obviously saw warning signs at the very end because, for example, they all rushed to campaign in Michigan, which was supposed to be a Dem lock, right before election day). So no one was denying reality of the polls, as in 2012. What is different is that this time the polls themselves were wrong, when they've proved quite reliable for many cycles before, and therefore (most) of the aggregate models broke down...Nate Silver's is the only one who got close.  The problem is trying to figure out why the polls themselves were wrong.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 10:40:12 AM by wenchsenior »

Crushtheturtle

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 10:41:55 AM »
Voting machines aren't connected to the Internet.

/thread

MNBen

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 11:24:03 AM »
If it makes you feel better, here's the data from Minnesota:

Trump did only a small fraction better in Minnesota this year than Romney did four years ago, outpacing him by just 789 votes in all. But Obama greatly outperformed Clinton, racking up more than 180,000 more votes than she did.

Jack

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 11:26:51 AM »
Voting machines aren't connected to the Internet.

/thread

They don't necessarily have to be in order to be hacked.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2016, 11:46:16 AM »
Voting machines aren't connected to the Internet.

/thread

How do votes get rolled up by precinct?  Does the precinct call in the results to the State?  Or is there a system to capture the votes that can be compromised?

After thinking about this a little more, I realized that Bernie Sanders won Wisconsin by 13%, the simplest explanation is that people in Wisconsin just don't like Hillary, and the polls between her and Trump were incorrect.  Same with Michigan - she also lost this state to Bernie, and this one had polls showing her up 20% against Bernie.  I doubt the Russians intervened for both Bernie and Donald.

You're on the right track. The polls somehow missed the populist/protectionist movement taking place in the Midwest.

bacchi

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 11:55:08 AM »
One theory (from 538? WaPo?) is that Trump voters are more suspicious of institutions and poll callers.

Trump voter: "Hello?"
Poller: "Hi, we're conducting a poll on the election and it will only take a few minutes."
Trump voter: "Not interested. Good bye."

deadlymonkey

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 11:57:31 AM »
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/after-trumps-win-putin-advisor-reveals-maybe-we-helped-a-bit-with-wikileaks/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899

Hacked the results...no.  Influenced the election yes. 

TLDR version:  Putin associate admits that “maybe we helped a bit with WikiLeaks.”

Crushtheturtle

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 12:13:55 PM »
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/after-trumps-win-putin-advisor-reveals-maybe-we-helped-a-bit-with-wikileaks/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899

Hacked the results...no.  Influenced the election yes. 

TLDR version:  Putin associate admits that “maybe we helped a bit with WikiLeaks.”

Those dastardly Russians, giving people access to more information!
We won't play your game, Ivan!

oldtoyota

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 08:35:40 PM »
Probably not. But it was reported that "helpers" pushed the Trump Pence button for a woman and her husband. They both deselected and voted for HRC, but what if others did not? The woman this happened to reported the polling volunteer, and he was removed. Not sure how many times that may have happened.


Metric Mouse

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 11:47:45 PM »
Honestly - I thought about this before the elections. Suppose you actually had a way to rig the elections and what planning to do so. What's the best way to ensure you'll escape detection and scrutiny? Why not tell your followers that your opponent is planning to rig the elections? Your opponent will predictably spend a lot of time explaining to everyone how impossibly hard it would be to rig the elections. They will go on at length about the security of our election process, and assure everybody that there is nothing at risk. Perfect! Now if your opponent becomes suspicious that you've rigged the election in the wake of an unexpected result, they'll look like a hypocrite! If they find impropriety and try to point it our, then your followers will be apoplectic and see it as evidence that you were right all along! There no possible way that your opponent could raise the issue without civil unrest.

Now, do I believe that's what happened? No, I don't. The demographic trends were pretty clear and pretty uniform across the entire Midwest, and every one of those states has different election procedures that would be next to impossible to rig independently. But I will say that Wisconsin's results were easily the most surprising.

I never suspected that the actual votes would be affected - but when Clinton started to take a dive, I did briefly wonder if Russia was somehow altering the information the news agencies received.  Just a product of my disbelief and my lack of understanding of vast majorities of fellow Americans, it would seem.  Something to improve upon.

gaja

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 03:56:43 AM »
One theory (from 538? WaPo?) is that Trump voters are more suspicious of institutions and poll callers.

Trump voter: "Hello?"
Poller: "Hi, we're conducting a poll on the election and it will only take a few minutes."
Trump voter: "Not interested. Good bye."

Researchers in Scandinavia have been reporting for a few years now that it is increasingly difficult to get men in the age group 20-40 to answer surveys. Many of them will simply not answer unknown phone numbers, others will hang up when they hear it is a salesman or similar. And this is the case no matter what the topic. One possible explanation is that people are getting fed up with giving feedback. The last month alone, I've received  questionnaires from the local grocery shop, two hotels, two conferences I've attended, and an online clothing store.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 05:40:18 AM »
Romney got 66,874 votes in my county in PA. Trump got 70,285. A minor change replicated 3,000 times is hard to fake.

(Clinton won my borough by five votes. Five. I decided to vote for her instead of Johnson at 6:45 that morning.)

oldtoyota

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2016, 06:04:38 AM »
Romney got 66,874 votes in my county in PA. Trump got 70,285. A minor change replicated 3,000 times is hard to fake.

(Clinton won my borough by five votes. Five. I decided to vote for her instead of Johnson at 6:45 that morning.)

Five votes. Wow.

A friend's brother lives in FL and voted third party. He thought enough other people would vote for Clinton.

JLee

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2016, 06:10:23 AM »
One theory (from 538? WaPo?) is that Trump voters are more suspicious of institutions and poll callers.

Trump voter: "Hello?"
Poller: "Hi, we're conducting a poll on the election and it will only take a few minutes."
Trump voter: "Not interested. Good bye."

Researchers in Scandinavia have been reporting for a few years now that it is increasingly difficult to get men in the age group 20-40 to answer surveys. Many of them will simply not answer unknown phone numbers, others will hang up when they hear it is a salesman or similar. And this is the case no matter what the topic. One possible explanation is that people are getting fed up with giving feedback. The last month alone, I've received  questionnaires from the local grocery shop, two hotels, two conferences I've attended, and an online clothing store.

Combined with seemingly every other website these days asking for a feedback survey...it's really getting old.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 06:24:03 AM »
Romney got 66,874 votes in my county in PA. Trump got 70,285. A minor change replicated 3,000 times is hard to fake.

(Clinton won my borough by five votes. Five. I decided to vote for her instead of Johnson at 6:45 that morning.)

Five votes. Wow.

A friend's brother lives in FL and voted third party. He thought enough other people would vote for Clinton.

It wasn't easy. I think Clinton is a warmongering shady crook. But I knew I'd be pissed with myself if Trump won.

TexasRunner

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2016, 07:22:39 AM »
If you're worried about this, then the correct course of action is to lobby for auditable voting machines.

There is no excuse whatsoever for voting machines not to (a) be open source so that anyone can audit the code, and (b) print a paper receipt (into a lockbox so the voter can't take it with him) so that the voters and vote-counters can audit the election results.

Voting machines aren't connected to the Internet.

/thread

They don't necessarily have to be in order to be hacked.

I actually agree with both of these.

The machines download updates from online- easy enough to put something screwy on at that point.  Lack of print-outs means lack of result.

Did the Russian hack this election- no, I don't think so.  Could someone F up a future election- seemingly VERY likely.  I think we need to vote electronically, then have TWO print outs, one for the voter (to confirm his selection) and another for the precinct that prints out at the machine in the voters hands.  The voter makes sure the two slips match and then hands off the precint's paper copy.

Open source...  Ehh, maybe.  More likely just let a coalition of known republicans and known democrats that are top tier (as in professors/businessmen/similar) review the code and give it the 'ok'.

Jack

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2016, 07:48:40 AM »
I think we need to vote electronically, then have TWO print outs, one for the voter (to confirm his selection) and another for the precinct that prints out at the machine in the voters hands.  The voter makes sure the two slips match and then hands off the precint's paper copy.

That's a terrible idea. We have a secret ballot for a reason: giving the voter himself proof (that he can take with him) of how he voted opens the door to blackmail, intimidation and vote-buying.

You only need one receipt. All it needs to do is be visible by the voter -- under glass -- before dropping into the ballot box.

Open source...  Ehh, maybe.  More likely just let a coalition of known republicans and known democrats that are top tier (as in professors/businessmen/similar) review the code and give it the 'ok'.

All software should be open source. Software used by the government doubly so, and software critical to democracy triply so.

TexasRunner

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 08:00:42 AM »
I think we need to vote electronically, then have TWO print outs, one for the voter (to confirm his selection) and another for the precinct that prints out at the machine in the voters hands.  The voter makes sure the two slips match and then hands off the precint's paper copy.

That's a terrible idea. We have a secret ballot for a reason: giving the voter himself proof (that he can take with him) of how he voted opens the door to blackmail, intimidation and vote-buying.

You only need one receipt. All it needs to do is be visible by the voter -- under glass -- before dropping into the ballot box.

Yes, that actually makes sense.  I didn't realize that point previously, thanks for bringing it up.

I do, however, think the ballots should be traceable (IE- they have the voter ID somewhere one them that can be verified).

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 08:09:35 AM »
Voting machines aren't connected to the Internet.

/thread

How do votes get rolled up by precinct?  Does the precinct call in the results to the State?  Or is there a system to capture the votes that can be compromised?

I can't speak to other areas, but here's how Cuyahoga County (Cleveland, OH) works.

Voter fills in bubbles on a paper ballot.

Voter inserts ballot into scanner.

Scanner tallies votes and saves to memory, and automatically deposits ballot into lockbox.

After the polls close, sheriff's deputies and civilians working for the Board of Elections transport the drive and the ballots to the counting facility.

KMB

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 08:13:17 AM »
One theory (from 538? WaPo?) is that Trump voters are more suspicious of institutions and poll callers.

Trump voter: "Hello?"
Poller: "Hi, we're conducting a poll on the election and it will only take a few minutes."
Trump voter: "Not interested. Good bye."

I voted for Trump. I was polled by an African American guy, I'm pretty sure. According to the MSM (and many people here!) I'm a racist piece of shit. It was difficult to tell the pollster that I was voting for Trump. I felt like I was making this perfectly nice guy feel bad. I wouldn't be surprised if others just went ahead and lied.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2016, 10:20:28 AM »
I just want to point out that I predicted the Wisconsin recount weeks in advance.  If the results swing to Clinton, all hell breaks loose.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/recounts-rarely-reverse-election-results/

Personally, I'd love a different result. I'm not holding my breath.

Auditing elections should really be SOP, for everyone's sake. IMO it's worth the expense, and far more useful than all of the voter ID laws in the world.

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2016, 10:28:00 AM »
No one is asking for a New Hampshire recount and that was by far the closest of them all. Oh right...Hillary won so no one questions the integrity of that result. It's also interesting that that Jill Stein, who only raised $3 million in an entire year suddenly raised $5 million in just a few days.

What's is far more likely than a Russian hack is someone magically finding a bunch of Hillary votes that were somehow "missed" during the recount.

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2016, 10:31:24 AM »
Paper ballots and voter ID would virtually eliminate voter fraud...so why don't the Democrats put away the crying towels and help support measures that would prevent fraud in the future? Are they worried about losing the dead and illegal votes?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2016, 11:05:08 AM »
Paper ballots and voter ID would virtually eliminate voter fraud...so why don't the Democrats put away the crying towels and help support measures that would prevent fraud in the future? Are they worried about losing the dead and illegal votes?

Nobody wants to spend the money to replace the electronic voting machines. Voter ID laws can't prevent fraud that doesn't exist.

Paper ballots by mail tied to SSN. Oh, and let's end gerrymandering.

Poundwise

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2016, 11:18:45 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

Metric Mouse

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2016, 11:22:32 AM »
Paper ballots and voter ID would virtually eliminate voter fraud...so why don't the Democrats put away the crying towels and help support measures that would prevent fraud in the future? Are they worried about losing the dead and illegal votes?

What about mail-in/absentee ballot voter fraud? Would ID's solve this as well?

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2016, 11:29:26 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

RosieTR

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2016, 11:36:40 AM »
I just want to point out that I predicted the Wisconsin recount weeks in advance.  If the results swing to Clinton, all hell breaks loose.

Um, I think we'll get that anyway. But they may as well audit the vote, which helps *preserve the legitimacy of our democracy*.

Quote from: musiclover
No one is asking for a New Hampshire recount and that was by far the closest of them all. Oh right...Hillary won so no one questions the integrity of that result. It's also interesting that that Jill Stein, who only raised $3 million in an entire year suddenly raised $5 million in just a few days.
Anyone who wants a recount New Hampshire is welcome to put away the crying towels and follow the process to do so.

Poundwise

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2016, 11:37:41 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

And what's YOUR credibility in saying this?

RosieTR

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2016, 11:39:39 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

Wrong. You've been had by the fake news sites, Musiclover. Maybe visit back here after you've cleaned yourself of those POS sites, which are propogated not only by Russians, but also random dudes in the middle of California, of all places: http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs


NoStacheOhio

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2016, 11:42:05 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

And what's YOUR credibility in saying this?

I'm just as guilty here, but I'm thinking may we don't feed the troll.

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2016, 11:44:32 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

Wrong. You've been had by the fake news sites, Musiclover. Maybe visit back here after you've cleaned yourself of those POS sites, which are propogated not only by Russians, but also random dudes in the middle of California, of all places: http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

Mainstream media has proven themselves to be the real fake news.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2016, 11:46:19 AM »
It's also interesting that that Jill Stein, who only raised $3 million in an entire year suddenly raised $5 million in just a few days..

It's amazing what one can do when one adopts a popular platform. :D

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2016, 11:47:50 AM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

And what's YOUR credibility in saying this?

If you can't see their bias, then you are the one with no credibility.

music lover

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2016, 11:49:33 AM »
It's also interesting that that Jill Stein, who only raised $3 million in an entire year suddenly raised $5 million in just a few days..

It's amazing what one can do when one adopts a popular platform. :D

If she was really concerned, then why isn't she looking for a recount in New Hampshire? It was the closest of all the elections.

RosieTR

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2016, 12:03:44 PM »
If so, I doubt that it would be traceable or that a recount will be able to detect it.  What is really creepy is the Russian troll farms. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Why hack the voting machines if you can hack the voters?

The New York Times has no credibility...they're just another Democrat propaganda rag.

Wrong. You've been had by the fake news sites, Musiclover. Maybe visit back here after you've cleaned yourself of those POS sites, which are propogated not only by Russians, but also random dudes in the middle of California, of all places: http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

Mainstream media has proven themselves to be the real fake news.

You know what, Musiclover? You're right! Some 20-somethings in CA who spend most of the day playing video games after writing an article for 30 minutes have a direct line to THE TRUTH
Teenagers in Macedonia know everything there is to know about everything (they're psychic!) and they have America's best interests at heart. Whereas people who actually do research and interviews and have a journalism degree are complete bullshitters. Yup, you've convinced me!!!!

<eye roll>

Metric Mouse

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2016, 12:07:16 PM »
It's also interesting that that Jill Stein, who only raised $3 million in an entire year suddenly raised $5 million in just a few days..

It's amazing what one can do when one adopts a popular platform. :D

If she was really concerned, then why isn't she looking for a recount in New Hampshire? It was the closest of all the elections.

I believe you may have answered your own question.

mm1970

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2016, 02:18:12 PM »
Unfortunately I think it's possible.  I really don't want it to be true (I don't want to call into question the entire election process...what a mess!)

So we owe it to everyone to do a recount, like 2000, and put it to bed, officially.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2016, 02:42:58 PM »
Unfortunately I think it's possible.  I really don't want it to be true (I don't want to call into question the entire election process...what a mess!)

So we owe it to everyone to do a recount, like 2000, and put it to bed, officially.

All the states? Or just the close states? Or just the close states that voted for the winner?

RangerOne

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2016, 04:43:50 PM »
Even if they found what they considered to be irrefutable evidence of Russian fowl play or fowl play by another biased party how the hell would they go about presenting it.

Almost no one who followed Trump would believe a word of it not matter how many facts they could come up with.

If it really was down to Russian hacking at this point, I think one reasonable response would be for the two major parties to treat us all like the biased idiots we are and not tell us anything. And simply work behind the scenes to secure our electronic voting for the next cycle and secretly go after those responsible.

Any kind of official investigation or allegation along those lines would be a massive side show spectacle that could end violently or with massive riots. And it would be antagonistic towards Russia in a potentially unnecessary way even if true. Our government in general has just had a bad run of getting the facts straight. Plenty of liberals still think back to all the arguments that were made in favor of invading Iraq based on bad evidence presented as irrefutable.

And its only gonna get worse because as a liberal who didn't believe some of the statements coming from an Obama administration you can trust that I believe basically the exact opposite of anything a Trump administration is tweeting.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Did Russians Hack Election Count
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2016, 06:31:20 PM »
Nate Silver, on point: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-i-support-an-election-audit-even-though-its-unlikely-to-change-the-outcome/

TL;DR the anomalies go away when you adjust for demographics, but we should conduct routine audits anyway to bolster faith in the system.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!