Author Topic: Death  (Read 9276 times)

smalllife

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Death
« on: October 23, 2013, 03:33:53 PM »
The vast majority of healthcare spending in the U.S. occurs at the beginning of life (preemies) and at the end.

So based on the data, it is not a logically valid argument to say "I shouldn't have to pay for people who don't take care of themselves." Instead, you would need to argue that you don't want to contribute to care for the very young and old: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2012/12/30/2012-the-year-in-healthcare-charts/

Aside from being healthy and general preventative care, redefining how we as a culture view and approach death would be the most cost-effective way to battle health care costs.  We spend so much to extend life a few more, and in many cases painful, months instead of embracing death in old age or against  deadly cancers.  What is the cost of a human life?  Would you spend $300,000 for a possible extra two months, most spent in a hospital?   Why should that be "normal"?

That is a problem regardless of government intervention. And its one that has been in the process of being fixed for a long time. The problem is our doctors haven't been trained in EOL and palliative care, and it's a hard fucking thing to have a conversation about. The good news is we -are- making strides in this area.

I agree that this is outside of government intervention, but I would counter that the topic is only hard to talk about because it has been ingrained upon us that death must be sad, bad, and taboo.  As I age I hope to make my own desires known and I have no qualms about discussing death, end of life plans, and drastic life saving measures - hopefully I can help move the change along.

The above exchange got me to thinking about death, finances, why no one seems to be able to talk about it, and the cultural hang ups about looking pragmatically towards health care for the elderly.  I'll answer my own questions in a follow up post, but here goes:

1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
3. If no, what is your crossover point?
4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?
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matchewed

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Re: Death
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 03:45:51 PM »
1. Sometimesish, but mostly no-ish. I can feel panicky at some thoughts of dying but I wouldn't say fear. And I think I don't have the subtlety between the two straight in my mind so yeah...  ;)
2. No
3. Really complex to answer. There are so many scenarios that I'd like to sit down with a doctor and go over to hash out a rough outline. So I'm going to duck my head and avoid this one.
4. Like right this instant or in general throughout my life? Right now no. In general throughout my life, well I've kinda always felt the same so maybe?

smalllife

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Re: Death
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 03:49:26 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?

-No.  I live a good life, love my life, and would be sad to have to leave, but at the end of the day I am but one of billions of humans who have come before and will come after.  Everyone has died and everyone was non-existent before they were born (I am an atheist).  I don't believe there will be a heaven or a hell, just a non existence.  If I'm wrong?  Well, at least I won't have spent my whole life worrying about it and I will have been a nice person in the meantime.  What is there to be afraid of?

Dying doesn't scare me either.  Again, I am just one human.  Who am I to think that my suffering is worse than anyone else's?  Who am I to take up a doctor's time and our country's healthcare system if I have a terminal disease?  I'd rather live out my time at home, doing what I can, with the people and pets I love. 


And because the most common follow up question is in regards to the people who are left behind:  I see death as a natural part of the life cycle.  I have lost close relatives and a good friend.  I miss them terribly, but at the same time recognize that nothing I can do will change anything.  They are gone, they are no longer in pain, what-ifs in this case do nothing but prolong grief. 

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

Absolutely not.  No one is that important, not even myself.   Hell, human life isn't that important.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?

At the point where the extreme lifesaving measures become a burden or the person in question is unable to pay for the extra care beyond which is deemed reasonable should the end be inevitable*. 

*I don't have a good working definition on this one.  I'm working on it.  I am hoping that this thread can help me figure that out.
-I do know there is a monetary component as well as a futility component.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?

Most definitely.  I don't see human life as sacred or any more meaningful than the millions of other creatures we share this world with.  There are over seven billion people on the planet . . . and I have a hard time justifying why anyone would want to increase that number, let along keep it that high as long as they can.  Perhaps I take too large a view or don't empathize enough with those with conflicting values, I dunno, but the topic is worth considering.  What makes someone so special that an extra six months of their life is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars?
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Cecil

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Re: Death
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2013, 04:11:23 PM »
I'm not *afraid* of death per se, but that doesn't mean I want to die. In fact I very much want to not die, and I forsee myself always feeling the same way.

For that reason, I'm strongly in favor of pouring tons of money into life-extension technologies. I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

While death may be natural, it horrifies me that we accept it as inevitable. I think that's a psychological defense mechanism we've constructed. Aging and death are a physical process, and if we understood it well enough we could avert it.

I realise this is an unpopular opinion. :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:14:18 PM by Cecil »

smalllife

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Re: Death
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2013, 04:18:10 PM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.
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Re: Death
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2013, 04:19:20 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying? Not in the least. I became even more calm about it after the blessing of being with my father when he passed one year ago. If you are in a quiet, supportive environment (i.e. NOT ICU!), it's very peaceful.

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost? No (although I only speak for my life, not for others' lives). I have a very assertive Advanced Directive: no extraordinary measures, no CPR. It's in my medical record, I've discussed it with my primary doc, and I carry a copy in my wallet.
 
3. If no, what is your crossover point? Any intervention which has low likelihood of preserving and extending a life in which I am in full possession of mental faculties. So I would say "yes" to treatment if I ended up in a wheelchair but otherwise ok, but "no" to anything that significantly impaired me mentally / functionally.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3? For sure.
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Cecil

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Re: Death
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2013, 04:31:13 PM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking - are you saying "Conquering aging would make our population explode, and we don't have the resources to deal with that many people?"

In that case, I think we do it by disincentivizing people from having children. Or the technology improves to allow us to sustain more people.

Think about it this way. Suppose we lived in a world where nobody died of old age, and overpopulation was a looming problem. Nobody would seriously suggest shooting all the old people as a solution, which makes me think that that world is an improvement on our own.

.22guy

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Re: Death
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2013, 04:37:24 PM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking - are you saying "Conquering aging would make our population explode, and we don't have the resources to deal with that many people?"

In that case, I think we do it by disincentivizing people from having children. Or the technology improves to allow us to sustain more people.

Think about it this way. Suppose we lived in a world where nobody died of old age, and overpopulation was a looming problem. Nobody would seriously suggest shooting all the old people as a solution, which makes me think that that world is an improvement on our own.

I think you might be mistake on that last part.  Younger people starving and seeing their kids starving might very seriously begin to suggest disposing of the "old" people in some way. 

I'm a firm believer that we humans consider ourselves civilized, but that comes peeling away pretty quickly after missing 6 or 7 meals.

smalllife

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Re: Death
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2013, 04:37:53 PM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking - are you saying "Conquering aging would make our population explode, and we don't have the resources to deal with that many people?"

In that case, I think we do it by disincentivizing people from having children. Or the technology improves to allow us to sustain more people.

(+10 on disincentivizing people from having children btw)

Here is a question - why do you think that more people is automatically better than fewer people?  I'm still working out a nuanced thought in response, but I haven't heard a good answer to that one either.

Quote
Think about it this way. Suppose we lived in a world where nobody died of old age, and overpopulation was a looming problem. Nobody would seriously suggest shooting all the old people as a solution, which makes me think that that world is an improvement on our own.

What I get from that is mass murder is not an acceptable solution to overpopulation.   I don't see how that is the same as allowing people to die with dignity or putting a reasonable amount of effort into savings lives as opposed to trying to save every.single.one no matter the cost.
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footenote

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Re: Death
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 05:00:41 PM »
For those trying to figure out where "the line" might be for you, this may be useful:

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2013/03/06/in-the-magazine/health-in-the-magazine/how-doctors-die.html

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xocotl

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Re: Death
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 05:43:52 PM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking - are you saying "Conquering aging would make our population explode, and we don't have the resources to deal with that many people?"

In that case, I think we do it by disincentivizing people from having children. Or the technology improves to allow us to sustain more people.

(+10 on disincentivizing people from having children btw)

Here is a question - why do you think that more people is automatically better than fewer people?  I'm still working out a nuanced thought in response, but I haven't heard a good answer to that one either.

Thinking that we should reduce the death rate does not imply believing that more people is better. I'm personally also in favor of developing technology to make people live longer/age less (although I think reducing the effects of aging is more important than not dying to me), but don't want significantly more people. You can get the population to stabilize at any value with any longevity. If people start having two kids per person on average, the population will stabilize, whether people live to be 70 or 200. Granted, if people live longer you'll have to go through a period of time upfront with slightly lower average fertiility in order for the population to stabilize at the same value, but that's an exchange I'd be willing to make :).

Also, I may be an optimist about the carrying capacity of the Earth. We could sustain way more people than we currently have, with a pretty good standard of living, if we stopped using resources so stupidly.

footenote

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Re: Death
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 06:13:33 PM »
I spent YEARS in my teens in and out of medical offices for various problems. It really changed how I view medical care. When my husband and I started having problems having children, I told him that I wasn't going to be one of those couples that moved heaven and earth to have children, because it just wasn't worth the time, money and pain to me. I view end of life care the same way. We all die. Beyond a certain age or physical condition, I can't see the value in fighting that inevitability any longer.
+1
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Norrie

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Re: Death
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 07:04:40 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?

I have a bit of fear of dying too young (while I still have kids at home and/or while my parents are still alive), or about dying a violent death. It's not a huge, paralyzing fear, but definitely an uncomfortable to think about worry.


2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

There was a time when I would have said no, absolutely not.
But then both of my parents were diagnosed with terminal cancer six weeks apart, and we were told that at most we'd have two months with them. But they both kept pushing on through outrageous crises (I'm talking that we received several "you need to come right now...your mom won't make it through the hour" type of phone calls). When they were very ill, medical professionals kept trying to get me to convince my mom to sign a Do Not Resuscitate order. I really wanted her to as well, as I worked in a trauma hospital at the time, and knew all about how they went. Mom adamantly refused, which surprised me, because she's generally super reasonable.
This month marks seven years since their diagnoses, and they are both still alive and kicking ass. I actually saw my mom's doctor yesterday, and she was like, "I still don't know how she did it. It wasn't possible to survive that".

So my perspective has changed, and even though I'm not spiritual, I do believe that miracles can occur in the form of people getting through things that everyone says is impossible.

Brain death is something different for me though, and I do not personally think that life should be extended in this case.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?

Mostly yes, but crossover point is brain death.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?

Nope, not at all. My ridiculously stubborn parents affected my answers.

MelodysMustache

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Re: Death
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 12:42:25 PM »
1.)   Are you afraid of death/dying?
I am afraid of dying badly - to me that is miserable and broke after painful and ultimately futile medical interventions.

2.)  Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
Absolutely not

3.)  If no, what is your crossover point?
I have two criteria for this - When I can no longer get up in the morning and look forward to my day, or moderate to severe brain damage.

4.) Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?
Yes it does.  I spent ten years of my life being a caregiver.  There is no way in hell I would do that to myself or my loved ones.  If and when I get a very serious or terminal diagnosis I will be very quick to pull the trigger on hospice care or medically assisted suicide (legal in my state).

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Death
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 01:59:49 PM »
1)  Not really.  If you die you will eventually live again.   The universe will stop expanding and collapse, blow up again, and in one of the trillion trillion trillion trillion cycles of this there will form an earth that has an identical "you" on it.

Might be a long wait but time will fly by once you are dead.

Gray Matter

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Re: Death
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2013, 03:31:22 PM »
This topic hits a little closer to home than I wish it did (my mother is in the final stages of cancer).  It's important to think about these things, though I sometimes suspect that all the thinking in the world isn't going to mean anything when the time actually comes.  Because thinking involves my rational brain, and that will likely be over-ridden by my emotions when truly facing death.  That said:

1.  Are you afraid of death/dying?

Yes, I am.  I do not fear what happens after death, because I think it's nothingness and that there is no consciousness.  So it's not exactly fear of death, but more a fear of not living.  I particularly fear leaving my children before they are grown.  I like this quote attributed to Mark Twain though I am not exactly there yet:  "I do not fear death.  I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

2.  Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

No way.

3.  If no, what is your cross-over point?

It's that ever elusive "quality of life" thing.  I'm not sure what that means in practical terms, but do not want to be kept alive artificially, or be a burden (financially, emotionally) to my loved ones or society.

4.  Do you think your answers to #1 affected your answers to #2 and #3?

Not really.  Just as I'm afraid of not living, I'm afraid of not living well.  So my fear of dying does not mean I want to live forever or at all costs.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Death
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2013, 09:25:16 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
Not at all. I'm pretty morbid just in general, and have gotten certain things in place for when I'm gone (in the event that I go before my husband). I don't believe anything happens after you die, so I don't tend to obsess over my own death particularly, and just figure I'd like to enjoy what time I've got here as well as I can, and hope that when it is my time, it is fast and painless.

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
Absolutely not.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?
I don't think heroic measures should be taken. I also don't want to linger in the event of mental deterioration.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?
Well, sure.
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Nords

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Re: Death
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2013, 07:18:49 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
I think anyone who claims to be unafraid of death/dying-- lacks experience.  They're not doing it right.  The ones who are truly unafraid of dying are already dead.

There's also the feeling of "Oh, crap, didn't see this coming."  When my moment comes I'll either be blissfully ignorant, or confused ("Whoa, what?!?"), or pissed off.

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
No.  My mother lived with breast cancer for far longer than she wanted to, and my father is currently in the same trap with Alzheimer's.  I'd like to learn from their examples, but at the same time I think I'll always be curious about tomorrow's sunrise.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?
If only it was that easy.  Tomorrow you'll be a different person than you are today, and tomorrow's decision will have a whole new set of criteria on a new slippery slope sliding scale.

My biggest concern is that the dying process seems hardest on the caregiver, and I'd prefer to spare my spouse that stress.  We joke about 9mm health insurance but I think there's a lot to be said for the Hemlock Society's products.  Of course the problem is that when the caregiver knows the time has come, the incumbent is probably unable to offer informed consent.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Death
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 07:35:37 AM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I have three perfect suggestions:

- Mandatory, televised single combat tournaments to the death between people over the age of 40.
- TV shows like survivor, but where you actually have to survive.
- UAV drone strike lottery.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Death
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 09:46:48 AM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I have three perfect suggestions:

- Mandatory, televised single combat tournaments to the death between people over the age of 40.
- TV shows like survivor, but where you actually have to survive.
- UAV drone strike lottery.

Suggested viewing:
Logan's Run, Battle Royale, Blade Runner, The Running Man, Hunger Games... :)
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Luck better Skill

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Re: Death
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2013, 02:15:36 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
I think anyone who claims to be unafraid of death/dying-- lacks experience.  They're not doing it right.  The ones who are truly unafraid of dying are already dead.

There's also the feeling of "Oh, crap, didn't see this coming."  When my moment comes I'll either be blissfully ignorant, or confused ("Whoa, what?!?"), or pissed off.

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
No.  My mother lived with breast cancer for far longer than she wanted to, and my father is currently in the same trap with Alzheimer's.  I'd like to learn from their examples, but at the same time I think I'll always be curious about tomorrow's sunrise.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?
If only it was that easy.  Tomorrow you'll be a different person than you are today, and tomorrow's decision will have a whole new set of criteria on a new slippery slope sliding scale.

My biggest concern is that the dying process seems hardest on the caregiver, and I'd prefer to spare my spouse that stress.  We joke about 9mm health insurance but I think there's a lot to be said for the Hemlock Society's products.  Of course the problem is that when the caregiver knows the time has come, the incumbent is probably unable to offer informed consent.

Well said.  I would add that another crossover point has to do with cost.  Giving some to help others is OK, but when many must labor to provide for one person that is too much.
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Re: Death
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2013, 02:47:35 PM »
Actually those of us with near-death experience DO have experience! Once you walk up to the precipice, curl your toes over the edge and peer into the abyss, it's just not scary any more.
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netskyblue

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Re: Death
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2013, 02:58:01 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
--No...not really.  I believe in a better afterlife, which has something to do with this.  I would say, though, that I am afraid of a long, painful dying process.  And at my age (almost 30) I'm certainly not READY to die.  There's too much I want to do yet.  I can't say I'll feel that way at 90, though.


2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
--No.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?
--Depends on the standard of "living" that is trying to be extended.  An expensive procedure for a (younger?) person that has a fair chance at getting them back to a mostly competent state - that should be done, at whatever cost.  I don't know that I'd feel the same way about it if the patient were near the end of their natural life expectancy.  And certainly not, if there is a next-to-none chance that the patient will wind up as other than a vegetable.  Anywhere in between is gray area.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?
--I don't think so.

CommonCents

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Re: Death
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2013, 02:59:43 PM »
Think about it this way. Suppose we lived in a world where nobody died of old age, and overpopulation was a looming problem. Nobody would seriously suggest shooting all the old people as a solution, which makes me think that that world is an improvement on our own.

Have you read 2030?  Just read it on vacation recently and it poses a hypothetical situation similar to this.  Not the best book, but interesting food for thought.

"June 12, 2030 started out like any other day in memory—and by then, memories were long.  Since cancer had been cured fifteen years before, America’s population was aging rapidly.  That sounds like good news, but consider this: millions of baby boomers, with a big natural predator picked off, were sucking dry benefits and resources that were never meant to hold them into their eighties and beyond.  Young people around the country simmered with resentment toward “the olds” and anger at the treadmill they could never get off of just to maintain their parents’ entitlement programs. ..."

GuitarStv

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Re: Death
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2013, 07:29:42 AM »
I think conquering aging is one of the biggest and most important things we can focus our efforts on as a species.

How do you answer the overpopulation component of this?  I'm genuinely curious as I've never heard someone take this position and it is the polar opposite of my own.

I have three perfect suggestions:

- Mandatory, televised single combat tournaments to the death between people over the age of 40.
- TV shows like survivor, but where you actually have to survive.
- UAV drone strike lottery.

Suggested viewing:
Logan's Run, Battle Royale, Blade Runner, The Running Man, Hunger Games... :)

ALL great movies!

deltaecho

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Re: Death
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2013, 07:09:12 PM »
I'm not morbid or depressed, but do think about this stuff all the time, especially since watching the painful death of a parent from cancer.

1. Are you afraid of death/dying?

I'm not afraid of death, but am scared of  loss of mental and physical functioning, and inadequately treated pain.  I work in the medical field, and see people under-treated for pain.  I was once in the hospital with a severe injury, and felt like a drug seeker when I had to ask for additional pain medications (with no history of drug addictions.)

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

no.  please read this article if you're interested in these issues:  http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203918304577243321242833962

3. If no, what is your crossover point?

I won't know until the time comes and it's very hard to predict.  I'm 40 and healthy now, and think I would be ok with dying before getting massive amounts of medical treatment, but may not feel that way if my life is threatened when I'm 70.  at the end of her life, my mother was perfectly fine with accepting death, it was everyone around her who couldn't stand the possibility.  the crossover point is probably not fully determined by the individual with illness, but the family and people around them.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?

yes.  but the answers were probably more influenced by watching both parents die, and going through medical school and a rotation in the icu.  I think hospice treatment is under appreciated, and asking people if they are ready for hospice makes them feel like doctors have given up on them.  unfortunately this isn't true at all.

ender

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Re: Death
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2013, 07:12:31 PM »
I am considerably more afraid of having lived a worthless life than I am of dying.


deltaecho

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Re: Death
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2013, 07:15:17 PM »
I was wondering what mmm forum category this would fit into:  general, faq, diy, ask a mustachian, throw down the gauntlet or share you badassity.  it seems to fit all over the place.

ritchie70

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Re: Death
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 11:26:37 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?

Not in the sense of a "fear" but I'm doing my best to not die and don't plan to any time soon.

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

No.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?

It's not financial so much as quality. If survival is going to suck, why survive? I've seen enough relatives die long drawn-out deaths from cancer or stroke that I don't see the point of that. My grandma-in-law was in a coma for months wasting away in a long-term hospital before she finally passed on.

But would I spend every penny I had to gain a year if it was going to be a good quality-of-life year? Yeah, sure. I don't have any faith that there is an afterlife, and strongly suspect this is all there is. I basically enjoy life, and enjoy my family, so why would I go without a fight if I could continue to enjoy it?

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?

I don't see how it could not.


happy

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Re: Death
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2013, 05:17:47 PM »
1. Are you afraid of death/dying?
No

2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?
no
3. If no, what is your crossover point?
Don't want CPR, ICU etc if I am not going to get out of hospital. Don't want to be kept alive to end up in a nursing home

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3
Yes probably.

Interesting thread....Slightly off topic, but one of the key variables in planning retirement is longevity...but we rarely talk about it in this forum.  Do people find it uncomfortable to think about?

Of course the safest thing is to plan to have a stash that will last forever, but that calls for a bigger stash.
Journalling at Happy Aussie Downshifter

TrMama

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Re: Death
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2013, 12:57:52 PM »
Interesting topic, especially since doctor assisted suicide has been in the news quite a bit in Canada lately.

1. Are you afraid of death/dying?

Right now, yes. I'm 34 and still have young children. However, I'm hoping the process of living/dying is similar to the process of pregnancy/childbirth. At the beginning of pregnancy, the idea of giving birth is terrifying. Especially the idea of giving birth prematurely. However, as you march towards the end of your 40 weeks, the idea of giving birth becomes a bigger and bigger relief. Until finally, at the bitter end, you welcome it, regardless of the pain.
 
2. Do you think life should be extended at any cost?

No.

3. If no, what is your crossover point?

When I'm unlikely to recover and go on to live a functional life. When I become a burden to my caretakers. I realize this is a pretty vague response, see #1.

4. Do you think your answer to #1 affected your answers to 2 & 3?

Yes, obviously.

Phoebe

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    • Phoebe's Journey
Re: Death
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2013, 05:12:43 PM »
For those trying to figure out where "the line" might be for you, this may be useful:

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2013/03/06/in-the-magazine/health-in-the-magazine/how-doctors-die.html

(I am seriously considering having a "No Code" or "No CPR" tattoo...)

Thank you so much for providing this!  I'm going to have my husband read it tonight and talk about our wishes.  I'm not actually afraid of dying myself, but I am afraid of Alzheimers which runs in my family.  My grandmother has been in a home for over 15 years and has been unable to speak or lift her head for 12.  Everyone jokes that she is going to outlive us all.  Religiously I don't believe in doctor assisted suicide, but seeing my grandmother's decline has given me doubts.