Author Topic: coronavirus  (Read 22844 times)

kenmoremmm

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coronavirus
« on: January 23, 2020, 02:43:29 PM »
anyone preparing for it? if so, how?

Freedomin5

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 02:49:01 PM »
Yes. We live in China. Itís big here. Buy N95 face masks or surgical masks. Stock up (theyíre sold out at the medical clinic, pharmacy, and local grocery stores in our neighborhood). Wear them if you have to leave your house. Wash hands frequently with water and soap. Carry alcohol-based hand sanitizer. Avoid contact with anyone who has been to Wuhan in the last two weeks. Avoid handling live or dead animals. Stay away from crowded areas such as subway, airport, shopping centers, and major tourist areas. Drink more warm water to keep your throat moist.

Expatartist lives in HK and has also been preparing.

ysette9

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 03:02:37 PM »
My management canceled a planned all hands meeting in China and will be using video conference instead

Freedomin5

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 03:08:01 PM »
All employees traveling for CNY were advised to wear face masks for the entire flight/train trip to their destination. I canít imagine having to wear a hot, stuffy N95 mask for a 15-hour international flight. Ugh.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 03:10:26 PM »
So far it is less worrying than SARS and MERS, but I always have some N95 masks and bleach in my house.

ysette9

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 03:54:07 PM »
I wore an N95 mask every moment I was outside of the hotel or factory on my last business trip to China. It sucks but it is better than breathing the air there. Bonus points if it can help protect against disease. The thing is it can be really tough to get it to it exactly right at every moment. I feel for the people there.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 03:57:13 PM »
I'm in the US so no, but I was really sick over the weekend with the strangest respiratory bug where I had a severe headache, chest tightness, eye irritation, no fever, and tested negative for the flu.  When I read the symptoms of it I thought wait, this sounds just like what I have but I live in the northern New England and I haven't traveled in awhile.  Can't be.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 04:38:43 PM »
anyone preparing for it? if so, how?

I've not prepared for it because I live so far off of  the beaten path.

I have pondered if a pandemic or fear of one could panic stock markets.


marty998

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2020, 11:44:47 AM »
Joke going around the young Chinese tennis player gave it to Serena Williams before beating her at the Australian Open.


BECABECA

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 11:55:43 AM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?

Michael in ABQ

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 12:45:09 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?

Most of the people who have died so far were in poor health or fairly old.

So far it's something like 10,000 people sick out of a city of 13 million. Frankly I like my odds.


Even with SARS and MERS the total number of reported sick (surely undercounted) was under 10k and the deaths were in the hundreds. By comparison, influenza kills tens of thousands every year, once again mostly those who are in poor health already.

SunnyDays

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 12:48:50 PM »
Not doing anything because I live in rural-ish Canada, but if I lived in China, I'd be less worried about stocking up on masks, etc and more about having a very full pantry.  Any city that's shut down for a while is going to run out of food quickly, or at least, it won't make it down the supply chain.  I mean, it's China, how can you avoid crowds when going about your daily life, including the food sector workers.

ysette9

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 12:57:35 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?

Most of the people who have died so far were in poor health or fairly old.

So far it's something like 10,000 people sick out of a city of 13 million. Frankly I like my odds.


Even with SARS and MERS the total number of reported sick (surely undercounted) was under 10k and the deaths were in the hundreds. By comparison, influenza kills tens of thousands every year, once again mostly those who are in poor health already.
As i mentioned to my husband this morning, I agree with you that so far it seems the absolute risk isnít that great. We likely are more at risk from idiots who donít vaccinate their children living right around us.

tthree

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2020, 05:17:52 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

scottish

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2020, 06:27:56 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

Not a doctor, but I think there are pneumococcal (sp?) vaccines which protect against the common pneumonia infections?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/index.html

RWTL

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 07:08:56 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

Not a doctor, but I think there are pneumococcal (sp?) vaccines which protect against the common pneumonia infections?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/index.html

Sorry gang - the pneumococcal vaccine won't protect against this virus.

tthree

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2020, 07:47:11 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

Not a doctor, but I think there are pneumococcal (sp?) vaccines which protect against the common pneumonia infections?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/index.html
The vaccine you linked offers protection specifically to the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Coronavirus is a completely different organism (not even a bacteria).  It is a virus.  To my knowledge, no coronavirus vaccines are commercially available.  Note: there are many different strains of Coronavirus.  A vaccine against one strain would not provide protection against all strains.

Paul der Krake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2020, 07:56:51 PM »
Drinking copious amounts of hard liquor to kill it.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2020, 08:24:08 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?

There's not a pneumonia vaccine. Pneumonia is a lung infection. It can be bacterial or viral, and caused by an enormous number of things.

RetiredAt63

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2020, 12:54:39 AM »
I've seen a few people here (New Zealand)  wearing masks on planes. Asian but no idea of their specific ethnicity.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 01:53:22 PM by RetiredAt63 »

Freedomin5

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2020, 02:26:50 AM »
Schools have been closed for a month. Our CNY holiday was just extended by another two weeks. And some educational institutions are out until the end of February. N95 masks are pretty much sold out or else are being sold at exorbitant prices. Itís a bit crazy here, and we are not even in Wuhan. People are starting to talk about stocking up on food because if they close the city, thereíll be no way to get food into the city.

Sibley

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2020, 05:28:54 PM »
Wash your hands, cover your mouth while coughing, and sneeze into your elbow.

It's a respiratory virus. Like the common cold and the flu. It's just new and scary. So, wash your hands. It'll help protect you from the far more common viruses floating around too.

BECABECA

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2020, 08:16:13 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

Not a doctor, but I think there are pneumococcal (sp?) vaccines which protect against the common pneumonia infections?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/index.html
The vaccine you linked offers protection specifically to the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Coronavirus is a completely different organism (not even a bacteria).  It is a virus.  To my knowledge, no coronavirus vaccines are commercially available.  Note: there are many different strains of Coronavirus.  A vaccine against one strain would not provide protection against all strains.

Thatís the vaccine I was thinking of. I didnít realize it only protected against those specific bacterial causes of pneumonia. But upon further investigation, it seems to me that if you have had that specific vaccine, you would indeed be at a reduced risk of developing pneumonia when exposed to one of these viral pandemics, as many of the resulting pneumonia cases are from secondary bacterial pneumonia. Iím not a doctor (itíd be great if we could get one to chime in on this), but my laymanís interpretation of this paper on the NIH site seems to support that conjecture:

Quote
Laboratory, clinical and epidemiological research has made it abundantly clear that bacterial co/secondary infection can significantly increase the morbidity and mortality of viral infections (Gupta et al., 2008). Up to 75% of those infected with influenza that go on to acquire pneumonia, are confirmed to have bacterial co-infection (Zambon, 2001). Bacterial co/secondary infection of influenza infection appears to occur frequently. Studies have shown that up to 65% of laboratory confirmed cases of influenza infection exhibited bacterial co/secondary infection, although Klein et al. (2016) state that in the majority of the research included in their meta-analysis this figure ranged between 11 and 35%. In the setting of an influenza epidemic or pandemic bacterial co/secondary infection can have devastating consequences, particularly in at-risk groups such as the immunocompromised/immunosuppressed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5481322/

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2020, 09:29:22 PM »
This virus causes pneumonia, and I believe thatís what people are dying of, so if youíve had the pneumonia vaccine would you basically be immune to the life-threatening symptoms of Coronavirus?
Please explain what a "pneumonia vaccine" is.  Vaccines offer protection against organisms not symptoms.

Not a doctor, but I think there are pneumococcal (sp?) vaccines which protect against the common pneumonia infections?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/index.html
The vaccine you linked offers protection specifically to the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Coronavirus is a completely different organism (not even a bacteria).  It is a virus.  To my knowledge, no coronavirus vaccines are commercially available.  Note: there are many different strains of Coronavirus.  A vaccine against one strain would not provide protection against all strains.

Thatís the vaccine I was thinking of. I didnít realize it only protected against those specific bacterial causes of pneumonia. But upon further investigation, it seems to me that if you have had that specific vaccine, you would indeed be at a reduced risk of developing pneumonia when exposed to one of these viral pandemics, as many of the resulting pneumonia cases are from secondary bacterial pneumonia. Iím not a doctor (itíd be great if we could get one to chime in on this), but my laymanís interpretation of this paper on the NIH site seems to support that conjecture:

Quote
Laboratory, clinical and epidemiological research has made it abundantly clear that bacterial co/secondary infection can significantly increase the morbidity and mortality of viral infections (Gupta et al., 2008). Up to 75% of those infected with influenza that go on to acquire pneumonia, are confirmed to have bacterial co-infection (Zambon, 2001). Bacterial co/secondary infection of influenza infection appears to occur frequently. Studies have shown that up to 65% of laboratory confirmed cases of influenza infection exhibited bacterial co/secondary infection, although Klein et al. (2016) state that in the majority of the research included in their meta-analysis this figure ranged between 11 and 35%. In the setting of an influenza epidemic or pandemic bacterial co/secondary infection can have devastating consequences, particularly in at-risk groups such as the immunocompromised/immunosuppressed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5481322/

Bacterial pneumonia, as a secondary infection, can be caused by all sorts of bacteria. It's regularly caused by bacteria that people are normally exposed to but because of their reduced immune response after an illness like flu, the bacteria can take hold when it wouldn't ordinarily. That's what makes secondary infections so insidious. Having a vaccine against one type of bacteria, which definitely causes pneumonia, won't actually protect you from secondary pneumonia. And we're only talking about bacteria. Viral pneumonia is also quite common, and so is fungal pneumonia. Pneumonia is caused by reduced immune system, by specific organisms that attack the lungs, by all sorts of odd organisms that take hold if given the chance, by dust and other particles etc etc. Pneumonia is a condition, kind of like back pain or redness of the eye. It can be caused by an enormous number of things.

GuitarStv

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2020, 07:47:48 AM »
Not preparing for it . . . as I don't really know what you would do to prepare for a virus of this sort.  Your only real chance is to completely avoid all other people, which is pretty close to impossible without already having dug a bunker and stocked canned food.

Just doing the regular common sense things that everyone does - washing my hands and avoiding people who are obviously sick.

LennStar

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2020, 09:00:23 AM »
Bad news. Looks like both the numbers and virility of this coronavirus have been... understated by the Chinese government (surprise!).

It is not only old age and people who already have something. And of course the bad thing is this is a new virus. Highly likely to mutate now that it is on humans first time. With bad luck it could get as easily to catch as the normal cold viruses. In that case we are looking at millions of death, but I am sure you still know this from the SARS panic, where it luckily didn't happen.

But having said that, are the people now buying masks in panic because on the other side of the world in a city 1 in 200 people have been infected in the last 4 weeks - are they the same that usually say "Flu vaccination? Hell no, only one in twenty get the flu!"?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 10:52:54 AM by LennStar »

sleepyguy

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2020, 03:19:39 AM »
I live in pretty populated area super close to central Toronto... BUT I work 95% remotely from home and besides taking my kids to school, I actually don't get into contact with many people on a daily basis.

I'm worried... not YET... have I stock piled anything... not really but I do wood working so always have plenty of mask if it comes to that.  Bottled water I always have a few cases in the basement and some canned foods.  Unless some staggering numbers come out from a reputable source I'm not gonna go too crazy.  So far there are 2 cases in Canada (Toronto) which were from people coming back from China.

LennStar

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2020, 09:05:16 AM »
not really but I do wood working so always have plenty of mask if it comes to that.
PSA: mask is not the same as mask. I am quite sure woodworking masks are terrible against viruses.

That is also true for those surgeons masks many people buy. Those are meant to prevent that the surgeon infects the patient with his saliva or hairs etc. They prevent stuff from going out, less from going in.

People "in the west" should learn from Japan (whole Asia?) where people wear these masks if they are sick to not infect others. That is effective!

GuitarStv

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2020, 09:06:13 AM »
I've been wearing a full body SCUBA suit to work.  The tank is heavy, but the peace of mind is worth it.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2020, 03:30:36 PM »
not really but I do wood working so always have plenty of mask if it comes to that.
PSA: mask is not the same as mask. I am quite sure woodworking masks are terrible against viruses.

N95 is N95, 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns. It's literally the same mask that my wife uses in a BSL 2+ laboratory.

EDIT- these are what I use for working near fiberglass: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-N95-Woodworking-and-Sanding-Painted-Surfaces-Respirator-Mask-10-Pack-8511PB2-A/202077815
EDIT 2: more links:
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/masks-and-n95-respirators
https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html
https://www.eheinc.com/blog/clinical-laboratories-using-bsl-2-plus-when-working-with-pathogens-transmitted-via-inhalation/
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 05:01:38 PM by PDXTabs »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2020, 08:34:32 PM »
not really but I do wood working so always have plenty of mask if it comes to that.
PSA: mask is not the same as mask. I am quite sure woodworking masks are terrible against viruses.

N95 is N95, 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns. It's literally the same mask that my wife uses in a BSL 2+ laboratory.

EDIT- these are what I use for working near fiberglass: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-N95-Woodworking-and-Sanding-Painted-Surfaces-Respirator-Mask-10-Pack-8511PB2-A/202077815
EDIT 2: more links:
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/masks-and-n95-respirators
https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html
https://www.eheinc.com/blog/clinical-laboratories-using-bsl-2-plus-when-working-with-pathogens-transmitted-via-inhalation/

A) the vast majority of stuff your wife works with in the lab are not respiratory and transmitted person to person. Her mask is as much to prevent her messing up samples as it is to protect her
B) your wife will have a well fitted mask which is a whole lot different from one purchased from a hardware store
C) the bulk of corona viruses are actually transmitted through saliva droplets entering the infectee via the eyes or hands that go on to touch the infectee's face. Complete barrier nursing includes body suits, eye covers and gloves, as well as stringent washing.
D) the droplets containing virus particles that can infect people are orders of magnitude smaller than fibreglass particles
E) N-95 isn't anywhere near 100% prevention of a corona virus but a whole lot better than nothing

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2020, 08:47:00 PM »
You can prepare for this by

- having your yearly flu shots. Won't give you immunity but might lessen the impact, if the virus has some similarity to other flu.
- Wearing a well fitting, appropriate face mask and wash hands often if you're frontline staff working with the public, especially the sick public. Your GPs and nurses and their admin staff will already be doing this.
- being prepared for your town to be quarantined. Could be anywhere at any time. This means maintaining a reasonable amount of petrol in your car, food in your cupboards and water in your house, vital medication etc. Also a heating source. You don't have to go overboard but a week or two of supplies isn't a terrible idea.
- minimising travel so you don't get caught in or out of a quarantine zone. If you do travel, take some extras for medication etc. If you were stuck in an airport for a few days, life would be easier with any medication your need and a handful of supplies, right? If you travel with a truck or car, have a little kit with food and water. Why not, right?

A real outbreak in your area is always pretty unlikely but taking some measures is only sensible, and they're also measures against any other short term breakdown in supplies. You don't have to be a doomsday prepper to just maintain a bit extra on a regular basis.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2020, 10:27:40 PM »
E) N-95 isn't anywhere near 100% prevention of a corona virus but a whole lot better than nothing

Absolutely, but I didn't actually buy the masks for 2019-nCov, which I'm not afraid of. They are however the standard for these sorts of things (unless you want to spring for an N100). Or to put it another way, go google for "ebola hospital" in google images. The folks from the CDC show up in BSL4 space suits but the locals and Mťdecins Sans FrontiŤres use whatever they can, and most of them live. They are however covered head to toe which you cover in your post.

If anything I would say that what people are missing in this 2019-nCov scare is eye protection, but I AM NOT an MD. Also, I have a beard which is my other big problem if I wanted to be protected. 

D) the droplets containing virus particles that can infect people are orders of magnitude smaller than fibreglass particles

Not according the the link that I posted above which clearly states that fibreglasss particles can and do come in 1 micron dimensions while typical droplets that would actually be floating around in the air would be ~5 microns.

C) the bulk of corona viruses are actually transmitted through saliva droplets entering the infectee via the eyes or hands that go on to touch the infectee's face. Complete barrier nursing includes body suits, eye covers and gloves, as well as stringent washing.

I never said otherwise. I personally would fear for my lack of paying attention more than anything else.

B) your wife will have a well fitted mask which is a whole lot different from one purchased from a hardware store

Her lab stocks 3M part number 8271 if you want to look it up. Technically a P95 mask, but I doubt that I'll find much 2019-nCov floating around in oil. I would imagine that her biggest advantage is decades of training to not touch herself somewhere dumb, and knowing how to put the mask on right. Also, her biosafety cabinet but there's nothing I can do about that.

A) the vast majority of stuff your wife works with in the lab are not respiratory and transmitted person to person. Her mask is as much to prevent her messing up samples as it is to protect her

Absolutely, because then it would be BSL3, not BSL 2+. But to the best of my knowledge N95 still meets OHSA/NIH/CDC requirements for BSL3, whether or not her hospital would require something better. If you have any evidence to the contrary I would be very interested in seeing it. I didn't find a good BSL3 document with a few minutes of googling.

EDITed to add - a quick google showed someone saying that they wear a N95 mask for avian influenza research in the BSL3 lab at the University of Warsaw.
EDIT2: if you really wanted to you could read this.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 11:48:17 PM by PDXTabs »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2020, 02:01:18 AM »
E) N-95 isn't anywhere near 100% prevention of a corona virus but a whole lot better than nothing

Absolutely, but I didn't actually buy the masks for 2019-nCov, which I'm not afraid of. They are however the standard for these sorts of things (unless you want to spring for an N100). Or to put it another way, go google for "ebola hospital" in google images. The folks from the CDC show up in BSL4 space suits but the locals and Mťdecins Sans FrontiŤres use whatever they can, and most of them live. They are however covered head to toe which you cover in your post.

If anything I would say that what people are missing in this 2019-nCov scare is eye protection, but I AM NOT an MD. Also, I have a beard which is my other big problem if I wanted to be protected. 

D) the droplets containing virus particles that can infect people are orders of magnitude smaller than fibreglass particles

Not according the the link that I posted above which clearly states that fibreglasss particles can and do come in 1 micron dimensions while typical droplets that would actually be floating around in the air would be ~5 microns.

C) the bulk of corona viruses are actually transmitted through saliva droplets entering the infectee via the eyes or hands that go on to touch the infectee's face. Complete barrier nursing includes body suits, eye covers and gloves, as well as stringent washing.

I never said otherwise. I personally would fear for my lack of paying attention more than anything else.

B) your wife will have a well fitted mask which is a whole lot different from one purchased from a hardware store

Her lab stocks 3M part number 8271 if you want to look it up. Technically a P95 mask, but I doubt that I'll find much 2019-nCov floating around in oil. I would imagine that her biggest advantage is decades of training to not touch herself somewhere dumb, and knowing how to put the mask on right. Also, her biosafety cabinet but there's nothing I can do about that.

A) the vast majority of stuff your wife works with in the lab are not respiratory and transmitted person to person. Her mask is as much to prevent her messing up samples as it is to protect her

Absolutely, because then it would be BSL3, not BSL 2+. But to the best of my knowledge N95 still meets OHSA/NIH/CDC requirements for BSL3, whether or not her hospital would require something better. If you have any evidence to the contrary I would be very interested in seeing it. I didn't find a good BSL3 document with a few minutes of googling.

EDITed to add - a quick google showed someone saying that they wear a N95 mask for avian influenza research in the BSL3 lab at the University of Warsaw.
EDIT2: if you really wanted to you could read this.

Nitpicking 101, thanks....

FYI, in response to bolded bit above. IF they're wearing N95 masks, they're wearing them in conjunction with a bodysuit, a plastic faceplate, double elbow gloves and either a negatively pressured environment or a positively pressured suit. Not to mention incredibly stringent washing and checking practices. There's no one doing research on any respiratory virus in just an N95 mask, my friend. No one. No point bringing up Ebola in this debate - it's transmitted by body fluids which is quite a different enterprise altogether. It's also a huge virus compared to a corona virus.

FYI 2, the filtration ability of the mask is completely overshadowed by the fit of the mask. Masks designed for sale in hardware stores often have significantly different types of attachment and nose/eye socket shapes/ability to be tightened in these areas, to masks designed for medical/health. The people working with infectious patients in hospitals right now will have had masks FITTED. That means  no facial hair, nose clips that have been individually checked for fit (they bend, like the nose clips on your glasses), eye masks or perspex full face plates that are placed over the N95 masks, double attachments that have been checked for both attachment to the mask and fit around the head/neck.

FYI 3, corona viruses tend to be large but some are nanometers. SARs was literally nanometers big, and SARs is a corona virus. I'm not aware of actual size information having been released about this virus??? but by your own measurements it can fit through an N95 mask which is only 95% effective..... Personally I would use one rather than not, but a mask is just not a fix-all.

elliha

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2020, 03:16:07 AM »
As I don't live in China I see no reason to get worked up about this. If the situation would worsen I would follow any public information advice.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2020, 08:48:56 AM »
Nitpicking 101, thanks....

Hey, you decided to respond to my post where I wrote simply that "N95 is N95, 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns." That was my only statement.

EDITed to add - her lab stock is labeled 3M 8271 NIOSH P95. My preferred fibreglass mask is labeled 3M 8511 NIOSH N95. Have your pick, they're both on Amazon.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 08:54:00 AM by PDXTabs »

Cassie

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2020, 11:43:30 AM »
I read that having the flu vaccine makes your immune system less likely to be able to fight this virus. I had pneumonia when I was 45 and in excellent health and it lasted for weeks and I felt like I was going to die. Now at 65 with asthma I might not survive it. Nothing to do except to practice good hygiene and since I am retired I can avoid large crowds.

zinnie

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2020, 01:04:27 PM »
As I don't live in China I see no reason to get worked up about this. If the situation would worsen I would follow any public information advice.

This. As I live in the US, I will follow what the CDC recommends. At this point, here is what they are saying:

The risk to individuals is dependent on exposure. At this time, some people will have an increased risk of infection, for example healthcare workers caring for 2019-nCoV patients and other close contacts. For the general American public, who are unlikely to be exposed to this virus, the immediate health risk from 2019-nCoV is considered low.
From: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

If that changes, I will reassess.

Dee18

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2020, 05:02:19 PM »
Cassie, where did you read this?
ďI read that having the flu vaccine makes your immune system less likely to be able to fight this virus.Ē

That seems extremely unlikely.

ysette9

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2020, 06:32:01 PM »
Well, the first case showed up here in the greater Bay Area (Santa Cruz; not really Bay Area but close enough). China isnít far ťcoute away apparently.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2020, 01:03:38 AM »
I've been wearing a full body SCUBA suit to work.  The tank is heavy, but the peace of mind is worth it.

I thought I was the only one!


Michael in ABQ

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2020, 02:34:59 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just a new version of the common cold? There are dozens or hundreds of viruses that cause the common cold, among them variations of coronavirus and rhinovirus. The mortality rate for this novel coronavirus is currently around 2-3% based on confirmed deaths (~250-300) and confirmed cases (~10,000), but it's likely that those confirmed cases are way undercounting anyone who just got a case of the sniffles and didn't get tested. So maybe the mortality rate is closer to 1% or 0.5% 

Influenza meanwhile kills tens of thousands every year.



Maybe I'm just very jaded about how the media will cling on to anything that sounds dangerous and pump the shit out of it to get clicks and eyeballs. Somehow I don't think this is like Spanish Flu that's going to end up killing tens of millions worldwide.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2020, 02:51:22 AM »
It's more like a bad strain of the flu than the common cold, but I agree, the effects are being blown way out of proportion.

People who wouldn't think twice about buying a cigarette or driving unseat belted (or, for that matter, not getting vaccinated) are all of a sudden becoming public health experts.

Humans are funny creatures.

I'm still worried about whether Ebola is going to turn me into a monkey.

former player

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2020, 02:55:08 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51214864
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2820%2930211-7/fulltext

75% of the first 100 hospitalised patients had pneumonia, 17% developed acute respiratory distress syndrome, 11% patients worsened in a short period of time and died of multiple organ failure.  Two cases mentioned where ventilation and an artificial lung failed to save lives.  The worst risk is for people with existing conditions, including diabetes.

LennStar

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2020, 02:59:06 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just a new version of the common cold? There are dozens or hundreds of viruses that cause the common cold, among them variations of coronavirus and rhinovirus. The mortality rate for this novel coronavirus is currently around 2-3% based on confirmed deaths (~250-300) and confirmed cases (~10,000), but it's likely that those confirmed cases are way undercounting anyone who just got a case of the sniffles and didn't get tested. So maybe the mortality rate is closer to 1% or 0.5% 

Yes. It is "common" cold in an uncommon strain. The high risk of it is based on the high infection risk. Even 0.01% death rate is a lot when everyone gets it.

And still magnitudes more of people die because of bad health decisions, including the decision to not get vaccinated.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2020, 10:34:23 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just a new version of the common cold?
...
Influenza meanwhile kills tens of thousands every year.

It's a common cold the way that the 1918 flu was a common flu. A few points:

  • Typical seasonal flu has an R0 of 0.9~2.1 and a mortality rate of ~0.13% (it varies year to year)
  • 1918 flu had an R0 of 1.4~2.8 and a mortality rate of 10~20%
  • 2019-ncov has an R0 of 1.4 to 3.8 (or more, some Chinese researchers put it at 5.5) and a mortality rate of ~2%

But a large part of the fear is that it's novel. That means we don't really know what R0 and the mortality rate will be, nor the best medical care or detection schemes. That's what makes it scary.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 11:11:30 AM by PDXTabs »

former player

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2020, 10:48:55 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just a new version of the common cold?
...
Influenza meanwhile kills tens of thousands every year.

It's a common cold the way that the 1918 flu was a common flu. A few points:

  • Typical seasonal flu has an R0 of 0.9~2.1 and a mortality rate of ~0.13% (it varies year to year)
  • 1918 flu had an R0 of 1.4~2.8 and a mortality rate of 10~20%
  • nConv-2019 has an R0 of 1.4 to 3.8 (or more, some Chinese researchers put it at 5.5) and a mortality rate of ~2%

But a large part of the fear is that it's novel. That means we don't really know what R0 and the mortality rate will be, nor the best medical care or detection schemes. That's what makes it scary.
An even larger part of what makes it scary is that it could become endemic in humans the way the common cold and influenza have, with new and possibly more fatal mutations appearing every year.

It's not about your (current lack of) individual risk, folks.  It's about stopping it from becoming endemic.

LennStar

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2020, 10:54:06 AM »
nConv-2019 has an R0 of 1.4 to 3.8 (or more, some Chinese researchers put it at 5.5) and a mortality rate of ~2%


You are right, seems to be 2%. Strange, I was quite sure that the infected were already above 100K, instead the table from yesterday shows 11700. Maybe it was headline from some shitty "newspaper" that talked about 100K+

Cassie

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2020, 11:01:04 AM »
I read that Chinese report causes of death differently than we do. So if you have another chronic respiratory condition such as asthma and die of the virus your cause of death would be asthma.  That means that the death count is underreported.

PDXTabs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2020, 11:06:08 AM »
nConv-2019 has an R0 of 1.4 to 3.8 (or more, some Chinese researchers put it at 5.5) and a mortality rate of ~2%


You are right, seems to be 2%. Strange, I was quite sure that the infected were already above 100K, instead the table from yesterday shows 11700. Maybe it was headline from some shitty "newspaper" that talked about 100K+

Maybe here? Again, this is novel, reporting what we know when we know it doesn't mean the reporting was shitty. It means that some legitimate accredited epidemiological researcher thinks that there might be 100K wild cases because a real credible mathematical model says so. Also, no one is quite sure how honest China is being with their data.

EDITed to add - just because you have 100K infections and 100 deaths doesn't make the mortality rate 0.1%, because you need to give people time to die.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 11:08:14 AM by PDXTabs »