Coronavirus is the End of Trump

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You are misunderstanding the situation.  It takes several weeks to die of covid-19, quite possibly involving 3 or 4 weeks on a ventilator before dying.  The death rate in the USA will not still be 1.5% in a few weeks' time, once infected people have had time to die.

And the virus is quietly rampaging through your communities, untested. I've seen the USA curves. In a weeks time there will be increasing deaths. In two-three weeks time the population will be terrified, the deaths will be terrifying, the hospitals will be overwhelmed, people will be dying unnoticed in their homes. It's going to be horrendous, and it's going to start happening very fast from now.

Not true.  I've been told we can all celebrate and shake hands on Easter!

It's like he thinks whatever he says just magically becomes reality. And the, when it doesn't, he forgets he said it.....

It does. At least to his base. He's got the right-wing blogs and media behind him, after all.

https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/trump-supporters-turn-on-dr-fauci-claiming-he-s-a-member-of-the-deep-state-NewK4dKgLUCIK9Dn-jzr9g?fbclid=IwAR2zxNh10d8ZY0i8LjN1UO1Z3uf_g2vPYWfG3eiADiH5f3DjR-bS4kX63cE

He's like the cult leader that has all his supporters out on a hillside waiting to be picked up by aliens as the chosen ones. If the aliens come, he wins. If they don't, it's because his followers weren't praying hard enough, and he wins. It's a very bizarre thing to watch from outside the US.

[dandarc]

Since Italy hasn't reported yet today, we're temporarily ahead of them on total confirmed cases! USA! USA! USA!

[Boofinator]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

[Kris]

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You are misunderstanding the situation.  It takes several weeks to die of covid-19, quite possibly involving 3 or 4 weeks on a ventilator before dying.  The death rate in the USA will not still be 1.5% in a few weeks' time, once infected people have had time to die.

And the virus is quietly rampaging through your communities, untested. I've seen the USA curves. In a weeks time there will be increasing deaths. In two-three weeks time the population will be terrified, the deaths will be terrifying, the hospitals will be overwhelmed, people will be dying unnoticed in their homes. It's going to be horrendous, and it's going to start happening very fast from now.

Not true.  I've been told we can all celebrate and shake hands on Easter!

It's like he thinks whatever he says just magically becomes reality. And the, when it doesn't, he forgets he said it.....

It does. At least to his base. He's got the right-wing blogs and media behind him, after all.

https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/trump-supporters-turn-on-dr-fauci-claiming-he-s-a-member-of-the-deep-state-NewK4dKgLUCIK9Dn-jzr9g?fbclid=IwAR2zxNh10d8ZY0i8LjN1UO1Z3uf_g2vPYWfG3eiADiH5f3DjR-bS4kX63cE

He's like the cult leader that has all his supporters out on a hillside waiting to be picked up by aliens as the chosen ones. If the aliens come, he wins. If they don't, it's because his followers weren't praying hard enough, and he wins. It's a very bizarre thing to watch from outside the US.

And from within.

[Brother Esau]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You have a low death rate because your timeline is behind other countries. Wait. Preferably in self isolation.

I'm in NZ. Our death rate is currently 0%. The entire country is in full lock down for four weeks. Because our government understands how epidemics work AND is prepared to do something about it.

NZ?? LOL Comparing countries with populations of 5 million vs. 330 million makes perfect sense.

[Kris]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You have a low death rate because your timeline is behind other countries. Wait. Preferably in self isolation.

I'm in NZ. Our death rate is currently 0%. The entire country is in full lock down for four weeks. Because our government understands how epidemics work AND is prepared to do something about it.

NZ?? LOL Comparing countries with populations of 5 million vs. 330 million makes perfect sense.

You know how percentages work, right?

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Chicken pox is a known virus. We know how it plays out long term. We don't know anything about corona virus in the long term. Do you get an immunity? Does it come back? Does it make you infertile? Does it damage organs in the long term and require hospitalisation down the track? Does it cause issues with learning or cognitive changes? Does it cause future pregnancies to terminate or impact the fetus? Viruses can do all of those things. We know nothing about this!

[talltexan]

I don't see Trump's failures as something that will hurt him in Nov.

Yes, the virus could result in some Trump supporters' death (it will also result in many deaths of people who wouldn't have voted for Trump). But Trump's rhetoric will position cities--which are largely run by Democrats--as the incubators and blame them for the harm; conservative media will fall in line behind this strategy once he runs it. He already did this with trade and immigration. The Trump supporters who remain healthy (and this is nearly all of them) will add this to the long list of grievances that inflamed them in 2016. Their increased turnout will more than offset the deaths, and Trump will be able to hold his coalition together and win in November.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You have a low death rate because your timeline is behind other countries. Wait. Preferably in self isolation.

I'm in NZ. Our death rate is currently 0%. The entire country is in full lock down for four weeks. Because our government understands how epidemics work AND is prepared to do something about it.

NZ?? LOL Comparing countries with populations of 5 million vs. 330 million makes perfect sense.

It's a percentage. You're showing off that world renowned US education system, my friend.

India has had 16 deaths. Guess what? They're in lockdown. Population? Somewhere north of a billion. 

[frugalnacho]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

[frugalnacho]

I'll let Governor Cuomo's slide speak to your plan:



Young people, YOU ARE WRONG.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

There's also the small fact that 'recovered' does not mean what people think it does. People who recovered from MERs and SARs (corona viruses) were left with permanent respiratory damage, among other issues. People who recovered from those viruses spent months in rehab because they'd been in comas for so long.

[OtherJen]

Also case in point with the last few posts.  The US response to the crisis has been embarrassingly abysmal by any objective metric, yet some seemingly smart and rational people in this community think they are doing a fine job.  Just imagine what average normal people outside of this community think, keeping in mind they are the people that elected Trump in the first place.

Somewhat reminiscent of "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" re: Hurricane Katrina.

[OtherJen]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

Yeah, we've had some notable cases locally of men in their 30s with no known underlying conditions who have already died of COVID-19. Two hospitals in one of our major regional health systems are already at capacity, and they're reporting plenty of younger patients. NYC is reporting the same, and one of the first cases in Louisiana was an otherwise very healthy man in his early 40s. How many young adults want to play russian roulette with this virus? I certainly don't.

[DarkandStormy]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

There's also the small fact that 'recovered' does not mean what people think it does. People who recovered from MERs and SARs (corona viruses) were left with permanent respiratory damage, among other issues. People who recovered from those viruses spent months in rehab because they'd been in comas for so long.

Already early signs of permanent lung damage among people who have "recovered" from covid-19.

[Boofinator]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

Even young healthy people die of chickenpox. It does not mean that the best solution is to shut everything down and keep everyone in isolation for a month and a half, even though we know that it would eliminate the virus.

Also, please be respectful of other posters' questions, when done in good faith. It was never "my" coronavirus party plan; I never have had any intention to perform such a stunt, nor have I recommended it to anybody else. I was simply asking about the potential for such a solution. You state matter-of-factly that young people would overwhelm the hospitals*, but from the very limited data I can gather it appears that coronavirus isn't that much more deadly or debilitating in young people than chickenpox (admitting that the data is extremely sketchy at the moment (missing much of the infected people), and considering the complications that accompany shingles).

Please present actual data to support your position, so that myself and others can make actual informed decisions. Anecdotal data is fine (as some posters have added), but major policy decisions should probably be made off statistical data.

*I admit that my original suggestion of "everybody under 40" doing this at the same time wasn't well thought out and would probably devastate medical facilities, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of phased approaches.

[Kris]

I'm pretty damn tired of people implicitly equating other illnesses with very different presentations, infection rates, and mortality rates to Covid-19.

[frugalnacho]

chickenpox parties don't make any sense anymore since we have a vaccine.... In the case of coronavirus parties, it doesn't make any sense either.

I agree on chickenpox, but why do you think the situation from coronavirus is all that different? If everybody with household members, say, below 40 years old (and without comorbidities) were to have corona parties and then self-isolate for a month, wouldn't that go a long way toward herd immunity, allow many of us to get back to work without fear of getting the disease, and not overwhelm the medical system (while acknowledging not everybody would come out of this without some complications)?

Because even young healthy people are dying from the coronavirus.  It's a terrible plan for exactly the reasons yytriumnitrate laid out in the post I responded to.  Even if you are below 40 without comorbidities and decide you want to get your immunity and get it over with, a whole heap of people are going to not be able to just "ride it out" at home and will be part of that big fat curve that's above the health care system capacity.  The way we flatten the curve and keep the hump below that line (which is already not going to happen) is to slow the spread and lessen the amount of sick people which is the exact opposite of your coronavirus party plan.

Even young healthy people die of chickenpox. It does not mean that the best solution is to shut everything down and keep everyone in isolation for a month and a half, even though we know that it would eliminate the virus.

Also, please be respectful of other posters' questions, when done in good faith. It was never "my" coronavirus party plan; I never have had any intention to perform such a stunt, nor have I recommended it to anybody else. I was simply asking about the potential for such a solution. You state matter-of-factly that young people would overwhelm the hospitals*, but from the very limited data I can gather it appears that coronavirus isn't that much more deadly or debilitating in young people than chickenpox (admitting that the data is extremely sketchy at the moment (missing much of the infected people), and considering the complications that accompany shingles).

Please present actual data to support your position, so that myself and others can make actual informed decisions. Anecdotal data is fine (as some posters have added), but major policy decisions should probably be made off statistical data.

*I admit that my original suggestion of "everybody under 40" doing this at the same time wasn't well thought out and would probably devastate medical facilities, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of phased approaches.

The mortality rate for chicken pox in children age 1-14 is approximately 1 in 100,000 compared with approximately 25 in 100,000 for adults.  So getting chicken pox as a youngen is far preferable to getting it as an adult.  Those mortality rates differ so much that it even makes sense to get chicken pox as a child and take that small risk of complications or death just to gain immunity and completely sidestep the risk as an adult.  I had chicken pox as a child and was intentionally infected to ensure I got it while I was young and healthy.  I didn't need to go to the hospital, and if I had needed to there were plenty of beds and ventilators available at the time because we weren't in the midst of an epidemic. They approved a vaccine when I was 12 years old.

We don't know exactly what the mortality rate for covid-19 is, or exactly how it breaks down by age group. It will take a lot of data to know for sure, but all the data we do have suggests it is orders of magnitude higher than 1 in 100,000, even without an overwhelmed healthcare system. 

[GreenSheep]

There's also the small fact that 'recovered' does not mean what people think it does. People who recovered from MERs and SARs (corona viruses) were left with permanent respiratory damage, among other issues. People who recovered from those viruses spent months in rehab because they'd been in comas for so long.

This is a good point. It's like when the media reports the number of people who died and the number of people who were injured in a car wreck or something. Well, it's great that they didn't die, but is their injury a broken toe or a broken neck resulting in quadriplegia? It would be nice to have data on FULL recoveries (so far as we can tell, up to this point, not ruling out future problems).

[Boofinator]

I'm pretty damn tired of people implicitly equating other illnesses with very different presentations, infection rates, and mortality rates to Covid-19.

How we are supposed to make sense of a disease without comparing it to other diseases we are more familiar with? Or is this truly the apocalypse?

[Kris]

I'm pretty damn tired of people implicitly equating other illnesses with very different presentations, infection rates, and mortality rates to Covid-19.

How we are supposed to make sense of a disease without comparing it to other diseases we are more familiar with? Or is this truly the apocalypse?

I did not say comparing. I said equating.

Comparing is good. Comparing points out the differences in circumstance, infection rates, etc. But many of these posts are not really doing that at all.

[Boofinator]

I'm pretty damn tired of people implicitly equating other illnesses with very different presentations, infection rates, and mortality rates to Covid-19.

How we are supposed to make sense of a disease without comparing it to other diseases we are more familiar with? Or is this truly the apocalypse?

I did not say comparing. I said equating.

Comparing is good. Comparing points out the differences in circumstance, infection rates, etc. But many of these posts are not really doing that at all.

Comparing considers differences and similarities.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compare

[dandarc]

I would like to congratulate @Boofinator for being just the 5th MMM forum member to make it onto my "Ignore" list, joining @runewell and @slythr on a truly selective committee. This is the first addition in years - truly a tremendous, historic honor! Your work in this thread has been exemplary!

[Kris]

I'm pretty damn tired of people implicitly equating other illnesses with very different presentations, infection rates, and mortality rates to Covid-19.

How we are supposed to make sense of a disease without comparing it to other diseases we are more familiar with? Or is this truly the apocalypse?

I did not say comparing. I said equating.

Comparing is good. Comparing points out the differences in circumstance, infection rates, etc. But many of these posts are not really doing that at all.

Comparing considers differences and similarities.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compare

Yes. I know what comparing means. That is why I did not use that word.

[sui generis]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

I totally agree that Trump's lack of leadership was a calamitous failure and has put us behind in many ways and will result in many more deaths than would have been necessary if he hadn't been calling it a hoax. 

However, states and counties started filling in the gaps to the degree they were able, when they realized they were going to have to be the ones to step up.  Because of that, we'll see much different results across the country - it will be much worse in some places and much better in others.  For instance, the link below is informative and a ways down it compares the neighboring states of KY and TN and their different trends based on earlier action in KY (a Democratic governor, btw) and later action in TN (a Republican governor). Also see the notes on the Bay Area and Seattle.  Whereas places like OK (not mentioned in article), I bet we'll see a much worse situation.  So, it's not quite accurate to predict an outcome (or talk about a set of current circumstances) for our country as a whole. Since the national gov failed to take action early, we missed the chance to do a better job AND we are now in the situation where there is no one situation in our country, but thousands of different ones based on the actions of governors and county health commissioners.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2020/03/25/482278/social-distancing-fight-coronavirus-strategy-working-must-continue/

I hope the case of KY vs. TN gets pointed out during the elections and that that *does* spell the end of Trump and some end to Trumpism as well (as nearly all Repubs are implicated in that).

[bacchi]

However, states and counties started filling in the gaps to the degree they were able, when they realized they were going to have to be the ones to step up.  Because of that, we'll see much different results across the country - it will be much worse in some places and much better in others.  For instance, the link below is informative and a ways down it compares the neighboring states of KY and TN and their different trends based on earlier action in KY (a Democratic governor, btw) and later action in TN (a Republican governor). Also see the notes on the Bay Area and Seattle.  Whereas places like OK (not mentioned in article), I bet we'll see a much worse situation.  So, it's not quite accurate to predict an outcome (or talk about a set of current circumstances) for our country as a whole. Since the national gov failed to take action early, we missed the chance to do a better job AND we are now in the situation where there is no one situation in our country, but thousands of different ones based on the actions of governors and county health commissioners.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2020/03/25/482278/social-distancing-fight-coronavirus-strategy-working-must-continue/

I hope the case of KY vs. TN gets pointed out during the elections and that that *does* spell the end of Trump and some end to Trumpism as well (as nearly all Repubs are implicated in that).

Trump is now claiming that midwest states will be encouraged to loosen social distancing soon.

"We could go to certain states right now that have virtually no problem or a very small problem. We don't have to test the entire state in the middle west, or wherever they may be. We don't have to test the entire state. I think it's ridiculous. We don't have to do it."

It's unclear if he truly thinks it's an urban/liberal vs rural/conservative virus or if he's following the lead of Foxnews hosts or Foxnews viewers. Who's leading whom here? Regardless, it's fascinating to watch.

OK, which doesn't have any state directed distancing guidelines, is in the top 16 of new cases. That's with little testing, too. The only hope for states like OK and KS and NE is that it's a seasonal virus and the warmer weather reduces the infection rate.

Of course, will forever Trumpers care? Isn't it China's fault?

[GuitarStv]

Of course, will forever Trumpers care? Isn't it China's fault?

I hear Mexico will pay for it, so no reason to worry.

[American GenX]

However, states and counties started filling in the gaps to the degree they were able, when they realized they were going to have to be the ones to step up.  Because of that, we'll see much different results across the country - it will be much worse in some places and much better in others.  For instance, the link below is informative and a ways down it compares the neighboring states of KY and TN and their different trends based on earlier action in KY (a Democratic governor, btw) and later action in TN (a Republican governor). Also see the notes on the Bay Area and Seattle.  Whereas places like OK (not mentioned in article), I bet we'll see a much worse situation.  So, it's not quite accurate to predict an outcome (or talk about a set of current circumstances) for our country as a whole. Since the national gov failed to take action early, we missed the chance to do a better job AND we are now in the situation where there is no one situation in our country, but thousands of different ones based on the actions of governors and county health commissioners.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2020/03/25/482278/social-distancing-fight-coronavirus-strategy-working-must-continue/

I hope the case of KY vs. TN gets pointed out during the elections and that that *does* spell the end of Trump and some end to Trumpism as well (as nearly all Repubs are implicated in that).

Trump is now claiming that midwest states will be encouraged to loosen social distancing soon.

"We could go to certain states right now that have virtually no problem or a very small problem. We don't have to test the entire state in the middle west, or wherever they may be. We don't have to test the entire state. I think it's ridiculous. We don't have to do it."

It's unclear if he truly thinks it's an urban/liberal vs rural/conservative virus or if he's following the lead of Foxnews hosts or Foxnews viewers. Who's leading whom here? Regardless, it's fascinating to watch.

OK, which doesn't have any state directed distancing guidelines, is in the top 16 of new cases. That's with little testing, too. The only hope for states like OK and KS and NE is that it's a seasonal virus and the warmer weather reduces the infection rate.

Of course, will forever Trumpers care? Isn't it China's fault?

I'm in a midwestern state, but I've seen it tightening up, and our biggest cities aren't being hit anything like NYC (yet), and the smaller cities are getting cases at an even lower rate, some counties have no cases yet, so I don't see the social distancing ending anytime soon when the storm is still coming in, and not to all areas of the state at the same rate.  Trump makes no sense.  It's truly sad that someone with such low intelligence surrounded by many like minds is making any recommendations.  They need to listen to the health care experts who say it's a bad idea.  Trump has been a failure.  Our governor took the meaningful action to protect citizens.

[MarciaB]

Not true.  I've been told we can all celebrate and shake hands on Easter!

...because Orange Jesus is going to resurrect the economy!

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I would like to congratulate @Boofinator for being just the 5th MMM forum member to make it onto my "Ignore" list, joining @runewell and @slythr on a truly selective committee. This is the first addition in years - truly a tremendous, historic honor! Your work in this thread has been exemplary!

Wait, we have an ignore list?!

[Brother Esau]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You have a low death rate because your timeline is behind other countries. Wait. Preferably in self isolation.

I'm in NZ. Our death rate is currently 0%. The entire country is in full lock down for four weeks. Because our government understands how epidemics work AND is prepared to do something about it.

NZ?? LOL Comparing countries with populations of 5 million vs. 330 million makes perfect sense.

It's a percentage. You're showing off that world renowned US education system, my friend.

India has had 16 deaths. Guess what? They're in lockdown. Population? Somewhere north of a billion.

That's cute, my friend. I'll bide my time and check back in once this blows over. We can compare data then. buh bye

[GuitarStv]

That's cute, my friend. I'll bide my time and check back in once this blows over. We can compare data then. buh bye

Stay safe man.  Seriously.  The US is the most infected country in the world, with no signs of slowing down.

[PKFFW]

That's cute, my friend. I'll bide my time and check back in once this blows over. We can compare data then. buh bye

I'm pretty sure you wont be back to compare anything once it blows over.  The data is likely to be too obvious for you to want to admit how very wrong you were.  I honestly hope not, but the writing is writ large on the wall.

[PDXTabs]

That's cute, my friend. I'll bide my time and check back in once this blows over. We can compare data then. buh bye

I'm pretty sure you wont be back to compare anything once it blows over.  The data is likely to be too obvious for you to want to admit how very wrong you were.  I honestly hope not, but the writing is writ large on the wall.

I'm confused. What do you think that Brother Esau is wrong about?

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Trump may actually emerge from this crisis more popular than he was and he may very well be reelected. Regardless of how it turns out or how incompetently you think he botched the response.

I think this is very possible, maybe even likely.  After all, his approval is going up currently. 

However, as I mentioned upthread, people were pissed at Bush's handling of Katrina, and he was also considered incompetent and a buffoon by many (oh, how I wish we could go back to just that level of incompetence and buffoonery!).  So what's the difference here?  Why are people rallying to Trump during this disaster when they rallied away from Bush?

I think the U.S. is handling this situation well. Kinda like "hold my beer and watch this". The markets sure believe that. Just about anyone in the white house would gain support.

Wait, you think the USA is handling the corona virus situation well???

Absolutely. As well or better than could be expected. Notice I didn't say Trump is handling it well.

The USA isn't testing in anywhere the numbers it needs to be, it hasn't locked down early enough or sufficiently, it's just now starting to churn out vital PPE, and the politicians are arguing over everything from stimulus packages to future measures. It's a shit show calamity unfolding that will make Italy and Spain look like a summer holiday. The USA did not recognise what was happening at the beginning, and I'm not convinced it has any real idea now. And een if it did, there's no co-ordinated response. I feel very, very sorry for your country and what is about to happen there.

1.5% death rate is second lowest on the planet (South Korea is 1.3%). Stock Markets up 15% in 3 days. Thank god I live in this country and not Europe, China, etc.

You have a low death rate because your timeline is behind other countries. Wait. Preferably in self isolation.

I'm in NZ. Our death rate is currently 0%. The entire country is in full lock down for four weeks. Because our government understands how epidemics work AND is prepared to do something about it.

NZ?? LOL Comparing countries with populations of 5 million vs. 330 million makes perfect sense.

It's a percentage. You're showing off that world renowned US education system, my friend.

India has had 16 deaths. Guess what? They're in lockdown. Population? Somewhere north of a billion.

That's cute, my friend. I'll bide my time and check back in once this blows over. We can compare data then. buh bye

I really hope I'm the one in the wrong here, and I really hope you're around at the end of it to tell me so.

[DarkandStormy]

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1243352869010649089?s=19

[PKFFW]

I'm confused. What do you think that Brother Esau is wrong about?

That the USA is handling the crisis well.

[OtherJen]

Oh, FFS. Trump: I don't believe you really need that many ventilators

THAT is how things are being handled in the USA. An idiot pseudo-dictator is essentially overseeing a death panel by default because a state governor refused to lick his boots and stroke his ego. Presumably that means that we in Michigan will also be thrown under the bus. Seriously, fuck him and his entire spoiled, nepotistic family. Let him start up his damned rallies again and shake all the attendees' hands.

[Brother Esau]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

[GuitarStv]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall hospitals in New York buying refrigerated tractor trailers to load dead into because they were running out of morgue space in 2008.

[OtherJen]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall hospitals in New York buying refrigerated tractor trailers to load dead into because they were running out of morgue space in 2008.

Yeah. And I worked at a major regional medical campus during H1N1 10 years ago, and the hospital wasn’t asking for community donations of PPE like they are now.

This is different for so many reasons.

[Kris]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

This poster may end up being my first ever “ignore” for sheer volume of nonsense posted.

[Brother Esau]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall hospitals in New York buying refrigerated tractor trailers to load dead into because they were running out of morgue space in 2008.

Oh! didn't know that. I guess it's time to freak out, panic, and go hoard TP. Thank you for that information.

[sui generis]

Welp, his approval ratings are up another 5 points. Jesus.

[dandarc]

Welp, his approval ratings are up another 5 points. Jesus.

Up to 45% or 49% if you only take the most favorable polls. This ain't exactly a Bush after 9/11 jump.

[DarkandStormy]

Welp, his approval ratings are up another 5 points. Jesus.

Every President enjoys an approval rating bump in the immediate aftermath of a crisis.  That it's only 5% is a testament to the man's incompetence.

[the_gastropod]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall hospitals in New York buying refrigerated tractor trailers to load dead into because they were running out of morgue space in 2008.

Oh! didn't know that. I guess it's time to freak out, panic, and go hoard TP. Thank you for that information.

On top of being plainly ignorant, this is incredibly insensitive. There were more 911 calls yesterday in NYC than on September 11th. And we still haven't reached the inflection point on this thing. I'm all for being a rational optimist. But that calls for, you know, rationality. You're showing none.

[Davnasty]

The sky is falling! Just like back in 2008.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall hospitals in New York buying refrigerated tractor trailers to load dead into because they were running out of morgue space in 2008.

Oh! didn't know that. I guess it's time to freak out, panic, and go hoard TP. Thank you for that information.

Do you actually have an opinion on the facts being presented or are you just here to mock anyone who acknowledges there might be a  problem?

Obviously no one is advocating panic and tp hoarding because those things accomplish nothing regardless of the severity of the situation. Obviously the sky isn't falling, we'll get past this as a society and most of us will survive.

But your initial argument was that the US government is handling the situation well. Since then lots of evidence to the contrary has been presented and your only response is sarcasm. If you wish to avoid negative thinking outside your circle of control, that's fine and maybe it's the right choice for you, but mocking people for discussing the reality of the situation isn't helping anyone. This is not TopIsIn.

[ender]

This is not TopIsIn.

Trump Top is in?

[Brother Esau]

This is not TopIsIn.

Trump Top is in?

Bottom is in. thorstach told me so.