Author Topic: Coronavirus is the End of Trump  (Read 52653 times)

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #200 on: March 19, 2020, 07:05:30 AM »
I'm already exhausted by the slow drip process we have been engaged in for two weeks now.  Bad news after bad news after bad news after bad news.

We need to be moving towards the South Korean model as quickly as humanly possible.  Test, test, test, and then monitor and quarantine those who are infected/exposed.

I would issue a shelter in place order for 7-14 days and dedicate all available resources of the United States government to getting testing up to its full capacity.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/coronavirus-cases-have-dropped-sharply-south-korea-whats-secret-its-success

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2020, 08:52:40 AM »
Have you seen the spring break pictures on the Florida beaches?

We are so far from the South Korea response (not even blaming Trump here) it is silly.

talltexan

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #202 on: March 19, 2020, 08:54:39 AM »
Indeed there are cultural reasons to think that Americans will never submit to cultural changes even if proven successful elsewhere. Trump is a symptom of this and cannot be blamed for causing it.

dandarc

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #203 on: March 19, 2020, 08:55:10 AM »
Have you seen the spring break pictures on the Florida beaches?

We are so far from the South Korea response (not even blaming Trump here) it is silly.
I get what you're saying - we are a much less compliant country on the whole.

But don't you think if the testing efforts had ramped up a month or two earlier, and good information was being shared, maybe even the spring breakers would have taken more notice?

Luke Warm

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #204 on: March 19, 2020, 08:55:40 AM »
Have you seen the spring break pictures on the Florida beaches?

We are so far from the South Korea response (not even blaming Trump here) it is silly.

STD's and CORVID-19 make for an epic spring break.

dandarc

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #205 on: March 19, 2020, 08:59:20 AM »
Have you seen the spring break pictures on the Florida beaches?

We are so far from the South Korea response (not even blaming Trump here) it is silly.

STD's and CORVID-19 make for an epic spring break.
Very non-pc, but this one always gives me a chuckle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUw4Qh9uFK8

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #206 on: March 19, 2020, 09:02:44 AM »
Have you seen the spring break pictures on the Florida beaches?

We are so far from the South Korea response (not even blaming Trump here) it is silly.
I get what you're saying - we are a much less compliant country on the whole.

But don't you think if the testing efforts had ramped up a month or two earlier, and good information was being shared, maybe even the spring breakers would have taken more notice?

Maybe. One would think they would pay attention right now to all of the mess of Italy but they are not.  I do not feel strongly that testing would have made a big difference in their opinion.

My money right now is on getting a super fast tracked vaccine and a viral treatment.  Both are really close if we are willing to take a little risk (I am willing personally...I would rather have a 0.1% chance of a side effect from a viral treatment than a 5% chance of dying or ending up with lung damage)

dandarc

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #207 on: March 19, 2020, 09:09:17 AM »
Thing is, the news didn't really break until the week before spring break for the schools in our city. A bunch of other schools were already on spring break that week.

Nobody who is already at the beach on a bender is watching CNN . . .

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #208 on: March 19, 2020, 09:27:39 AM »
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

Quote
The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on the same day. By late January, Seoul had medical companies starting to work on a diagnostic test — one was approved a week later. Today, the U.S. isn’t even close to meeting test demand

Boofinator

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #209 on: March 19, 2020, 11:42:41 AM »
I should clarify that I don't expect him to win, but I'm the guy that said he wouldn't win the first time. Don't trust me, I have a horrible track-record.

~2 years prior to Trump's win I read about a realignment of the electorate  that favored the Democratic Party.

And the polling indicated a win for HRC (not my candidate).

So I thought she would win.

Wrong!


I told my Mexican neighbor the evening after Trump came down the golden staircase and spewed his nonsense about Mexican rapists, that there was no way America could elect that guy. Nothing that happened between then and the election changed my mind.

Wrong.

gentmach

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #210 on: March 20, 2020, 05:31:38 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #211 on: March 20, 2020, 05:49:20 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.

former player

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #212 on: March 20, 2020, 06:39:52 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.
Agree.  There is a fundamental difference between someone using powers as a dictator, which is all about benefitting the dictator's political and financial situation, and someone using emergency powers for the benefit of the people, to prevent/limit the economic and physical suffering caused by a pandemic

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #213 on: March 20, 2020, 06:58:47 AM »
In light of the GOP Senators engaged in rampant insider trading, we must see the stock trades of the Trump family in the month of February.

talltexan

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #214 on: March 20, 2020, 07:05:13 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.
Agree.  There is a fundamental difference between someone using powers as a dictator, which is all about benefitting the dictator's political and financial situation, and someone using emergency powers for the benefit of the people, to prevent/limit the economic and physical suffering caused by a pandemic

In fact, instead of taking actions to guarantee our public health, Trump was floating a possible action to pardon a campaign surrogate who is facing jail time: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-s-strongly-considering-full-pardon-michael-flynn-n1159476

I think this is dictator behavior.

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2020, 08:21:55 AM »

In fact, instead of taking actions to guarantee our public health, Trump was floating a possible action to pardon a campaign surrogate who is facing jail time: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-s-strongly-considering-full-pardon-michael-flynn-n1159476

I think this is dictator behavior.

Really?  You want to accuse him of being a dictator for that? Presidential pardon power is vast. Many before have used it to pardon close friends.

I'm all for Trump bashing but let's pick our battles. The "coronavirus is nothing and will be gone and we don't need WHO testing kits and it's nothing to worry about" seems to be a good one to hammer home.

dandarc

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #216 on: March 20, 2020, 08:35:28 AM »
@dividendman
"I didn't know the flu kills people."

"You're saying a flu vaccine won't work."

"The reports of this being bad are a hoax by the democrats."

"I'm a racist". (paraphrasing a bunch of tweets on this one)

MasterStache

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #217 on: March 20, 2020, 08:50:42 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.
Agree.  There is a fundamental difference between someone using powers as a dictator, which is all about benefitting the dictator's political and financial situation, and someone using emergency powers for the benefit of the people, to prevent/limit the economic and physical suffering caused by a pandemic
Some folks don't understand the difference between dictatorship and true leadership. A likely reason for the straw-man that was proposed.

gentmach

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #218 on: March 20, 2020, 08:55:33 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.

I had always thought the argument was that "if we give Trump any kind of power he won't give it up." I'm pointing out that had he acted unilaterally you would be screaming "dictator!"

Also Congress increased CDC funding regardless of Trump's wishes.

https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

And we have conflicting accounts on why CDC positions were removed.

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #219 on: March 20, 2020, 09:00:09 AM »
@dividendman
"I didn't know the flu kills people."

"You're saying a flu vaccine won't work."

"The reports of this being bad are a hoax by the democrats."

"I'm a racist". (paraphrasing a bunch of tweets on this one)

I hope Biden has the fucking balls to blame Trump for this, regardless if he deserves the blame or not. All we should be seeing are ads and mentions about how Trump failed to act, tanked the economy and cost what's likely to be hundreds of thousands of American lives.

Just replay that over and over.

Question in the debate about social security? Answer: "Social security is an important issue. We might have had some time to deal with it if Mr. Trump acted sooner and didn't just tell us lies about the virus so we were woefully unprepared".

Question about Iran getting nukes? Answer: "Iran getting nukes is an important issue. It's unfortunate that we are dealing with a national calamity that Trump could have mitigated so we can't spend time on this issue and instead are burying our dead."

etc.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #220 on: March 20, 2020, 09:31:28 AM »
In light of the GOP Senators engaged in rampant insider trading, we must see the stock trades of the Trump family in the month of February.

3 GOP senators & 1 Democrat senator (Diane Feinsten)

It sure is weird how that last part didn't make it into your comment. It's almost as if bias is coming through...

Feinstein sold AT THE BOTTOM.  But sure...go with 75% of Senators discovered so far are GOP.  It's all the same lmao

gentmach

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #221 on: March 20, 2020, 09:32:47 AM »
@dividendman
"I didn't know the flu kills people."

"You're saying a flu vaccine won't work."

"The reports of this being bad are a hoax by the democrats."

"I'm a racist". (paraphrasing a bunch of tweets on this one)

I hope Biden has the fucking balls to blame Trump for this, regardless if he deserves the blame or not. All we should be seeing are ads and mentions about how Trump failed to act, tanked the economy and cost what's likely to be hundreds of thousands of American lives.

Just replay that over and over.

Question in the debate about social security? Answer: "Social security is an important issue. We might have had some time to deal with it if Mr. Trump acted sooner and didn't just tell us lies about the virus so we were woefully unprepared".

Question about Iran getting nukes? Answer: "Iran getting nukes is an important issue. It's unfortunate that we are dealing with a national calamity that Trump could have mitigated so we can't spend time on this issue and instead are burying our dead."

etc.

This is an awful idea. Just fucking terrible.

In Illinois it was the governor that decided to shutter restaurants. I doubt you will find a way to blame Trump when Governor's are the ones doing the action.

Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

Democrats had declared closed borders "racist". And depending on how bad things get in Europe, socialized healthcare will be a dead issue.

This plan just makes Biden sound even more dementia riddled than usual.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #222 on: March 20, 2020, 09:36:05 AM »
Corona certainly could be the end of Trump, and the key metric I'm watching is the unemployment rate. While we're certainly going to see a huge spike in March/April, and if unemployment is (still?) in double digits come October, he's going to have a tough time.

....

 in the last 80 years, no sitting US president has lost their bid for reelection when the unemployment rate was below 7%. Some have been reelected when unemployment was above that threshold, but none have lost below it. Of course, the sample size is small, so the confidence level is not fantastic.

Unemployment data can be found here: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Information on age of president at inauguration can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age

PDXTabs

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #223 on: March 20, 2020, 09:38:28 AM »
This is an awful idea. Just fucking terrible.
...
And depending on how bad things get in Europe, socialized healthcare will be a dead issue.

Remind me what happened in South Korea, keeping in mind that South Korea and the USA got their first confirmed case on the same day?

Remind me what sort of healthcare systems Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea have?

Remind me which countries are going to look prescient when this is over? Not the USA, that's for sure. Plenty of Trump tweets about how "[w]e have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine" and "it’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."

EDITed to add - At the exact same time that South Korea was rallying their medical industrial complex Trump was tweeting that there wasn't a problem. The USA is at best on par with Italy in terms of response. American exceptionalism is going to die for lack of enough ventilators and test kits.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 09:54:07 AM by PDXTabs »

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #224 on: March 20, 2020, 09:55:47 AM »
@dividendman
"I didn't know the flu kills people."

"You're saying a flu vaccine won't work."

"The reports of this being bad are a hoax by the democrats."

"I'm a racist". (paraphrasing a bunch of tweets on this one)

I hope Biden has the fucking balls to blame Trump for this, regardless if he deserves the blame or not. All we should be seeing are ads and mentions about how Trump failed to act, tanked the economy and cost what's likely to be hundreds of thousands of American lives.

Just replay that over and over.

Question in the debate about social security? Answer: "Social security is an important issue. We might have had some time to deal with it if Mr. Trump acted sooner and didn't just tell us lies about the virus so we were woefully unprepared".

Question about Iran getting nukes? Answer: "Iran getting nukes is an important issue. It's unfortunate that we are dealing with a national calamity that Trump could have mitigated so we can't spend time on this issue and instead are burying our dead."

etc.

This is an awful idea. Just fucking terrible.

In Illinois it was the governor that decided to shutter restaurants. I doubt you will find a way to blame Trump when Governor's are the ones doing the action.

Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

Democrats had declared closed borders "racist". And depending on how bad things get in Europe, socialized healthcare will be a dead issue.

This plan just makes Biden sound even more dementia riddled than usual.

I'm not talking about the "fairness" of it. I'm just saying how you win elections. Republicans were excellent at saying everything Obama did was wrong whether it was or not. Republicans are good at winning elections that way.

I've said this before in other threads. If anything goes wrong you blame it on the current administration.

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that Democrats didn't 100% blame Bush for 9/11. Who cares about the fairness? Republicans would have blamed a Democratic President.

Now is another time. This time he's obviously incompetent, but even if he's doing the right things now, we shouldn't be able to look at a website, or watch tv without an ad that blames Trump for every American death and the economic toil that is happening.

The worst calamities of the last 2 decades have happened on a Republican's watch and somehow they skate... fuck that.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 09:58:45 AM by dividendman »

sherr

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #225 on: March 20, 2020, 10:01:53 AM »
In light of the GOP Senators engaged in rampant insider trading, we must see the stock trades of the Trump family in the month of February.

3 GOP senators & 1 Democrat senator (Diane Feinsten)

It sure is weird how that last part didn't make it into your comment. It's almost as if bias is coming through...

Feinstein sold AT THE BOTTOM.  But sure...go with 75% of Senators discovered so far are GOP.  It's all the same lmao

Today I learned that February 18 was the bottom.

I guess no one told that to the market over the last month.

The only really obvious case of insider trading is Burr. Loeffler, Feinstein, and Inhofe all claim to have not even been aware of the trades since they hold them in blind trusts (Feinstein) or their financial advisors were executing on previous instructions (Loeffler, Inhofe).

Burr's "defense" is "yeah I had non-public information, and yeah I directed those trades", but I "relied solely on public news reports to guide my decision regarding the sale of stocks on February 13." Riiiiiight.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2020, 10:05:47 AM »
In light of the GOP Senators engaged in rampant insider trading, we must see the stock trades of the Trump family in the month of February.

3 GOP senators & 1 Democrat senator (Diane Feinsten)

It sure is weird how that last part didn't make it into your comment. It's almost as if bias is coming through...

Feinstein sold AT THE BOTTOM.  But sure...go with 75% of Senators discovered so far are GOP.  It's all the same lmao

Today I learned that February 18 was the bottom.

I guess no one told that to the market over the last month.

Whoa, did she sell an index fund??  Oh, whoops.  Didn't want to provide that point, did you?

Burr and Loeffler continued to publicly talking up the economy in February, while they dumped their stocks.  Loeffler then invested in Citrix.  What do they do?

Also, it wasn't Feinstein who made the trades.  It was her husband.

Quote
Sen. Dianne Feinstein disclosed that her husband, Richard C. Blum, sold a biotech stock in January, when it was trading near its 2020 intraday lows.

Blum, the founder and head of investment firm Blum Capital Partners, sold $500,001 to $1 million in Allogene Therapeutics stock on Jan. 31, according to a form the senator filed with the Secretary of the Senate. Specific values aren’t required for disclosure, only ranges.

You...you do realize stocks have different highs and lows than the broad market, right?

Quote
The day that Blum sold Allogene stock, shares of the cancer researcher traded for as low as $21.28, just above the current 2020 intraday low of $21.25, which was set the next trading day, Feb. 1.

Since then, however, Allogene stock has been rising, closing Friday at $27.00 for a year-to-date gain of 3.9%, while the S&P 500 index, a proxy for the broader market, has fallen 8.6%. Last year, Allogene stock slipped 3.5% while the S&P 500 rose 28.9%.

But sure, investigate all members of Congress who made irregular trades (i.e. non-reoccurring) since January 24th.

I see you are failing to note anything from Burr or Loeffler.  Wonder why that is?  Bias?

Keep posting in bad faith.  You are doing so great at it so far, sweetie.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #227 on: March 20, 2020, 10:06:40 AM »
In light of the GOP Senators engaged in rampant insider trading, we must see the stock trades of the Trump family in the month of February.

3 GOP senators & 1 Democrat senator (Diane Feinsten)

It sure is weird how that last part didn't make it into your comment. It's almost as if bias is coming through...

Feinstein sold AT THE BOTTOM.  But sure...go with 75% of Senators discovered so far are GOP.  It's all the same lmao

Today I learned that February 18 was the bottom.

I guess no one told that to the market over the last month.

The only really obvious case of insider trading is Burr. Loeffler, Feinstein, and Inhofe all claim to have not even been aware of the trades since they hold them in blind trusts (Feinstein) or their financial advisors were executing on previous instructions (Loeffler, Inhofe).

Burr's "defense" is "yeah I had non-public information, and yeah I directed those trades", but I "relied solely on public news reports to guide my decision regarding the sale of stocks on February 13." Riiiiiight.

Loeffler's husband is the chairman of the NYSE.  And she decided to invest in Citrix in February.  Hmmm...wonder what they do?

sherr

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2020, 10:14:30 AM »
The only really obvious case of insider trading is Burr. Loeffler, Feinstein, and Inhofe all claim to have not even been aware of the trades since they hold them in blind trusts (Feinstein) or their financial advisors were executing on previous instructions (Loeffler, Inhofe).

Burr's "defense" is "yeah I had non-public information, and yeah I directed those trades", but I "relied solely on public news reports to guide my decision regarding the sale of stocks on February 13." Riiiiiight.

Loeffler's husband is the chairman of the NYSE.  And she decided to invest in Citrix in February.  Hmmm...wonder what they do?

Ah, I was not aware of as many of the specifics as you seem to be. Only Burr and Loeffler are being referred to the SEC, so it seems people in-the-know agree with you.

bacchi

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #229 on: March 20, 2020, 10:40:29 AM »
...snip...

February 18th close of ALLO was 24.25, which is considerably lower than it's recent high of 28.25, is also considerably higher than the 3/20 close price of 20.29. Saying she had no say because her husband made the trades is silly.

I hate (almost) all politicians equally. It's just dishonest to only target the ones with an (R) next to their name and makes you no better than a certain president who spins things to make himself look better.

That ALLO price was also much lower on 1/31, at around $21, when her husband sold the first batch of shares, near the current price.

Of course, it wasn't him personally -- it was for his company, which invests in small and mid-sized companies, that he started before he met Feinstein. He bought ALLO last year after he sold Nvidia, which he was buying in 01/2019.

Unless he went to cash or bonds, we don't really know if he was taking advantage of the intel meeting. Since his fund is in and out of stocks frequently, he could've bought Dave & Buster's and now his fund is really suffering.


But, yeah, there's certainly a chance it was corona related. That's how politicians be.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #230 on: March 20, 2020, 10:41:43 AM »
...snip...

February 18th close of ALLO was 24.25, which is considerably lower than it's recent high of 28.25, is also considerably higher than the 3/20 close price of 20.29. Saying she had no say because her husband made the trades is silly.

I hate (almost) all politicians equally. It's just dishonest to only target the ones with an (R) next to their name and makes you no better than a certain president who spins things to make himself look better.

I said all should be investigated.  I'm also not "only targeting the ones with an (R) next to their name."  There are a) more of them accused of insider trading and b) at least two of them are more egregious on their face than Feinstein.

Good try, though.

gentmach

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2020, 11:06:14 AM »
@dividendman
"I didn't know the flu kills people."

"You're saying a flu vaccine won't work."

"The reports of this being bad are a hoax by the democrats."

"I'm a racist". (paraphrasing a bunch of tweets on this one)

I hope Biden has the fucking balls to blame Trump for this, regardless if he deserves the blame or not. All we should be seeing are ads and mentions about how Trump failed to act, tanked the economy and cost what's likely to be hundreds of thousands of American lives.

Just replay that over and over.

Question in the debate about social security? Answer: "Social security is an important issue. We might have had some time to deal with it if Mr. Trump acted sooner and didn't just tell us lies about the virus so we were woefully unprepared".

Question about Iran getting nukes? Answer: "Iran getting nukes is an important issue. It's unfortunate that we are dealing with a national calamity that Trump could have mitigated so we can't spend time on this issue and instead are burying our dead."

etc.

This is an awful idea. Just fucking terrible.

In Illinois it was the governor that decided to shutter restaurants. I doubt you will find a way to blame Trump when Governor's are the ones doing the action.

Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

Democrats had declared closed borders "racist". And depending on how bad things get in Europe, socialized healthcare will be a dead issue.

This plan just makes Biden sound even more dementia riddled than usual.

I'm not talking about the "fairness" of it. I'm just saying how you win elections. Republicans were excellent at saying everything Obama did was wrong whether it was or not. Republicans are good at winning elections that way.

I've said this before in other threads. If anything goes wrong you blame it on the current administration.

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that Democrats didn't 100% blame Bush for 9/11. Who cares about the fairness? Republicans would have blamed a Democratic President.

Now is another time. This time he's obviously incompetent, but even if he's doing the right things now, we shouldn't be able to look at a website, or watch tv without an ad that blames Trump for every American death and the economic toil that is happening.

The worst calamities of the last 2 decades have happened on a Republican's watch and somehow they skate... fuck that.

Your plan boils down to "Orange Man bad!" They have been saying that for four years now. No policy recommendations. How is that different from what they have been doing?

This is an awful idea. Just fucking terrible.
...
And depending on how bad things get in Europe, socialized healthcare will be a dead issue.

Remind me what happened in South Korea, keeping in mind that South Korea and the USA got their first confirmed case on the same day?

Remind me what sort of healthcare systems Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea have?

Remind me which countries are going to look prescient when this is over? Not the USA, that's for sure. Plenty of Trump tweets about how "[w]e have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine" and "it’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."

EDITed to add - At the exact same time that South Korea was rallying their medical industrial complex Trump was tweeting that there wasn't a problem. The USA is at best on par with Italy in terms of response. American exceptionalism is going to die for lack of enough ventilators and test kits.

None of those countries were held up as examples by Bernie Sanders. If any Nordic countries fall apart then you have problems.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #232 on: March 20, 2020, 11:08:04 AM »



I hate (almost) all politicians equally. It's just dishonest to only target the ones with an (R) next to their name and makes you no better than a certain president who spins things to make himself look better.

Hatred is a negative passion so I avoid it.

I do dislike politicians, particularly for their mendacity.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 11:11:40 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #233 on: March 20, 2020, 11:12:53 AM »
I'm not talking about the "fairness" of it. I'm just saying how you win elections. Republicans were excellent at saying everything Obama did was wrong whether it was or not. Republicans are good at winning elections that way.

I've said this before in other threads. If anything goes wrong you blame it on the current administration.

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that Democrats didn't 100% blame Bush for 9/11. Who cares about the fairness? Republicans would have blamed a Democratic President.

Now is another time. This time he's obviously incompetent, but even if he's doing the right things now, we shouldn't be able to look at a website, or watch tv without an ad that blames Trump for every American death and the economic toil that is happening.

The worst calamities of the last 2 decades have happened on a Republican's watch and somehow they skate... fuck that.

Your plan boils down to "Orange Man bad!" They have been saying that for four years now. No policy recommendations. How is that different from what they have been doing?


It's not my plan. I wish we could talk about the issues and possible solutions. I wish we could come to compromises and work for the good of everyone.

I'm simply saying that democrats should use the republican's playbook to win elections. Oppose everything the administration is doing. Say it's all bad. And say, ever chance you get, that he is responsible for the death of thousands of Americans and the current economy.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #234 on: March 20, 2020, 11:14:45 AM »
I find it odd that for three years everyone claimed "He's going to take power and rule as a dictator." Now a crisis is upon us and everyone is insulted he didn't take the power immediately. Everyone here would have taken the "we told you he was a dictator" ball and run with if they had the chance

Can you point to some people who have made posts that they're 'insulted he didn't take power immediately'?

Most of the complaints I've seen have been due to Trump's dismantling of the agency designed to protect against global pandemics, his repeated reductions of funding for CDC infectious disease controls, his weeks of telling people that there was nothing to be worried about when there way, his repeated lies related to the virus that have confused people or given them misinformation, his racially based blaming of the disease, and then his abdication of all responsibility for anything.  Many people are guaranteed to die because of Trump's actions so far.

Don't confuse disgust with dangerous levels of incompetence in Trump with a left/right argument.  The premier of Ontario right now is extremely right wing, and I don't agree with him on most things.  But I do think he's doing a decent job so far of handling the coronavirus issue.  And nobody has accused him of being a dictator.  From my perspective, there's a pretty large difference between implementing measures that health experts say are necessary, and taking power to as a dictator.

I had always thought the argument was that "if we give Trump any kind of power he won't give it up." I'm pointing out that had he acted unilaterally you would be screaming "dictator!"

I'm not sure I understand you here.

Exactly what unilateral action do you think Trump should have taken?  Nobody's complaining that he was not unilateral enough.  As mentioned, weakening the ability of the US to respond to this pandemic, misrepresenting the truth, and not listening to medical practitioners are the problems people have identified with his behaviour.

As for 'screaming dictator!' - you don't know a thing about me . . . and I very much doubt that you can guess how I'll behave in any given situation.



Also Congress increased CDC funding regardless of Trump's wishes.

https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

That's true.  I should have typed 'calls for reduction', not 'reduction', that was my mistake.  Congress was able to contain Trump's misjudgement in this instance.

MasterStache

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #235 on: March 20, 2020, 11:15:49 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful. 

Kris

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #236 on: March 20, 2020, 11:18:33 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #237 on: March 20, 2020, 11:25:31 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

What are you talking about? It's it great that innocent people in an adversarial country are dying en masse? /s

And this is why we have to give Trump no quarter when it comes to who is to blame. His supporters literally cheer the death of innocent people. Like what the fuck are we talking about?

gentmach

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #238 on: March 20, 2020, 11:30:04 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Their leaders decided they needed nuclear weapons more than they needed medical supplies. Why aren't you upset about that?
Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

What are you talking about? It's it great that innocent people in an adversarial country are dying en masse? /s

And this is why we have to give Trump no quarter when it comes to who is to blame. His supporters literally cheer the death of innocent people. Like what the fuck are we talking about?

sherr

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #239 on: March 20, 2020, 11:41:52 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

What are you talking about? It's it great that innocent people in an adversarial country are dying en masse? /s

And this is why we have to give Trump no quarter when it comes to who is to blame. His supporters literally cheer the death of innocent people. Like what the fuck are we talking about?
Their leaders decided they needed nuclear weapons more than they needed medical supplies. Why aren't you upset about that?

I fixed your quote-nesting for you. Another approach would have been to actually reply to the correct post if you wanted to only respond to MasterStache.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with that comment, but your doubling-down proves me wrong. This is just vile.

Iran was complying with the nuclear treaty and everyone knows it. Every single country and agency in the world says so except for Trump, including Trump's own State Department. Take your lies and cheering-for-the-deaths-of-innocent-people somewhere else.

dividendman

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #240 on: March 20, 2020, 11:46:49 AM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

What are you talking about? It's it great that innocent people in an adversarial country are dying en masse? /s

And this is why we have to give Trump no quarter when it comes to who is to blame. His supporters literally cheer the death of innocent people. Like what the fuck are we talking about?
Their leaders decided they needed nuclear weapons more than they needed medical supplies. Why aren't you upset about that?

I fixed your quote-nesting for you. Another approach would have been to actually reply to the correct post if you wanted to only respond to MasterStache.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with that comment, but your doubling-down proves me wrong. This is just vile.

Iran was complying with the nuclear treaty and everyone knows it. Every single country and agency in the world says so except for Trump, including Trump's own State Department. Take your lies and cheering-for-the-deaths-of-innocent-people somewhere else.

Even if they weren't complying, why cheer the death of their civilians? Do you think dude selling pitas is the one who made the decision to try to develop nukes?

Have some compassion. I don't think anyone is defending Iranian leaders. But to say it's great that they can't get medical supplies to their people is on another level.

Note that the US government has also chosen to have nukes (more military spending) instead of more medical supplies, but I don't think you'll be happy if your parents/loved ones die now due to this choice.

EDIT: More importantly, I won't be happy that people die due to this choice either, even though I was against more military spending.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 11:48:46 AM by dividendman »

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #241 on: March 20, 2020, 01:03:55 PM »
Iran is crippled with Corona. Thanks to sanctions they can't get medical supplies from anywhere. The sanctions are doing their job.

This caught my eye. How fucking horrible do you have to be as a human being to root for people to suffer and die? Just awful.

Wow. Yeah, that is pretty freaking grotesque, gentmach.

What are you talking about? It's it great that innocent people in an adversarial country are dying en masse? /s

And this is why we have to give Trump no quarter when it comes to who is to blame. His supporters literally cheer the death of innocent people. Like what the fuck are we talking about?
Their leaders decided they needed nuclear weapons more than they needed medical supplies. Why aren't you upset about that?

I fixed your quote-nesting for you. Another approach would have been to actually reply to the correct post if you wanted to only respond to MasterStache.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with that comment, but your doubling-down proves me wrong. This is just vile.

Iran was complying with the nuclear treaty and everyone knows it. Every single country and agency in the world says so except for Trump, including Trump's own State Department. Take your lies and cheering-for-the-deaths-of-innocent-people somewhere else.

Even if they weren't complying, why cheer the death of their civilians? Do you think dude selling pitas is the one who made the decision to try to develop nukes?

Have some compassion. I don't think anyone is defending Iranian leaders. But to say it's great that they can't get medical supplies to their people is on another level.

Note that the US government has also chosen to have nukes (more military spending) instead of more medical supplies, but I don't think you'll be happy if your parents/loved ones die now due to this choice.

EDIT: More importantly, I won't be happy that people die due to this choice either, even though I was against more military spending.


I'll defend Iranian leaders as far as nuclear weapons go.  They were following the agreement they made in good faith with America.  It's not their fault that Trump decided to re-neg on his side just to be an asshole.  And the Iranian people certainly shouldn't die because of America's untrustworthiness.

PDXTabs

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #242 on: March 20, 2020, 01:17:04 PM »
None of those countries were held up as examples by Bernie Sanders. If any Nordic countries fall apart then you have problems.

What does that have to do with literally anything?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #243 on: March 20, 2020, 02:48:02 PM »
I think to myself, at least once a day now, that Trump probably wishes he'd been impeached (and removed).

PDXTabs

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #244 on: March 20, 2020, 05:39:24 PM »
It's already starting: Republicans for the rule of law.

EDITed to add - the video that they put out.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 05:54:59 PM by PDXTabs »

sui generis

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #245 on: March 20, 2020, 05:43:56 PM »
Apparently, Trump's blathering over the last week has been effective for him? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/20/poll-majority-of-americans-now-approve-of-trumps-coronavirus-management-138570

I just can't believe anyone listens to him and feels anything other than 1) confused, 2) horrified or 3) annoyed.  His rant today against the journalist that just asked him what he would say to Americans who are scared?  People approve of that bullshit?

Poundwise

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #246 on: March 20, 2020, 11:21:28 PM »
Saw this good summary of how the US has been doing under Trump during the pandemic:
First US case of covid-19 = January 20
First S. Korean case of covid-19 = January 20

# of tests performed in US = 60,000
# of tests performed in S. Korea = 290,000

Population of US in 2020 (est)  = 331 million
Population of S. Korea in 2020 (est) = 51 million

# total known cases in US on Mar 20 = 20,193
# total known cases in SK on Mar 20 = 8,799

# deaths of covid-19 (confirmed) in US by Mar 20 = 280
# deaths of covid-19 (confirmed) in SK by Mar 20 = 102
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 07:24:52 AM by Poundwise »

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #247 on: March 21, 2020, 12:55:33 AM »
An important comparison. However it's also important to point out that this reflects systemic problems in the US, rather than problems with old Drumpf himself.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW

Quote
The administration of President Donald Trump was tripped up by government rules and conventions, former officials and public health experts say. Instead of drafting the private sector early on to develop tests, as South Korea did, U.S. health officials relied, as is customary, on test kits prepared by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, some of which proved faulty. Then, sticking to its time-consuming vetting procedures, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration didn’t approve tests other than the CDC’s until Feb. 29, more than five weeks after discussions with outside labs had begun.

Had he ordered agencies to ignore laws and regulations, I think his detractors would have had something to say about that.

The US is a country with over 16,000 law enforcement agencies. There are likewise many thousands of healthcare agencies, from local to state to federal, and many and various regulatory bodies and so on and so forth. Checks and balances are excellent for democracy, but are really terrible for quick action. The issues revealed by the disasters of Hurricane Katrina and now the pandemic are ones which a President could only resolve by himself if he became absolute dictator of the United States, which I think you do not want.

Just as you accept firearms deaths as the price you pay for the right to bear arms, so too you must accept disaster and pandemic deaths as the price you pay for regulation and checks and balances. That's just the system you choose to live under.

So long as you continue to blame individual Presidents for your country's woes, you will never resolve them.

Of course, you can quite fairly blame some congresspeople for insider trading...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-congress/u-s-senators-defend-selling-shares-before-coronavirus-crash-idUSKBN2171AL
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 12:59:12 AM by Kyle Schuant »

Poundwise

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #248 on: March 21, 2020, 07:28:45 AM »
Quote
South Korea took a risk, releasing briskly vetted tests, then circling back later to spot check their effectiveness. By contrast, the United States’ FDA said it wanted to ensure, upfront, that the tests were accurate before they went out to millions of Americans.

“There are always opportunities to learn from situations like this one,” FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, who has been on the job only three months, told Reuters. “But one thing I will stand firm on: We cannot compromise on the quality of the tests because what would be worse than no tests at all is wildly inaccurate test results.”

bolds mine.  Look at who the commissioner was before him... and before him... and before him... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hahn_(oncologist)

I don't know if they are bad or unqualified people, but turnover seems rather high!

That said you are probably right that there are structural issues that slowed down our response. But Trump did not take coronavirus seriously until it was too late.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 07:33:09 AM by Poundwise »

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus is the End of Trump
« Reply #249 on: March 21, 2020, 07:47:23 AM »
Just as you accept firearms deaths as the price you pay for the right to bear arms, so too you must accept disaster and pandemic deaths as the price you pay for regulation and checks and balances. That's just the system you choose to live under.

What?

This is weird reasoning.  South Korea's doing massively better than the US.  Is your argument that there are no checks and balances there?  Or in the Netherlands?  That doesn't follow at all.