Author Topic: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?  (Read 3522 times)

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2021, 11:37:09 AM »
I can't imagine wasting energy worrying about this type of thing.

yeah, worrying about the end of democracy and those that support it, silly OP how silly

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2021, 11:39:25 AM »
I feel someone should point out there is a world of difference between someone who voted/supports Trump, and those who pushed their way into the capitol building.



There is. Ones that NO longer support trump. IF they still support him, they support the 6th

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2021, 11:42:37 AM »
Quote
Do I try to find another contractor whose politics aren't abhorrent to me? How could I even do this? Have a conversation with the Trump-supporter that acknowledges that we'll never agree so let's not talk about it? I would love to hear your ideas/input/opinions, etc.

To answer your question, the only way to know about their political beliefs is to ask them.

I've never known the political beliefs of someone I've hired, for what it's worth.

Well, lucky you. Have you actually had someone doing work in your house every day for a month?

I sure got to hear the political opinions of the guys who poured my driveway.

These days itís even easier, because they tend to show up without a mask.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3936
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2021, 11:46:04 AM »
Maybe you should postpone the garage expansion and put some of that money into therapy? It sounds like you have some serious issues hindering you from doing day-to-day things that a mentally-well person would not be struggling with to this degree.

Suggesting someone is mentally ill because they donít want to support a certain group of people? Wow. Why are you so passive-aggressive over this? OP isnít having a super uncommon thought.

I donít personally give a shit what people believe as long as they do good work, Iíd hire them...but Iím not about to judge someone who doesnít want to work with someone who may try to bring up some stuff youíd roll your eyes at. Generally though people are people and you can learn to get along.

This is NOT passive aggressive, I am 100% serious. When a person's obsession becomes so extreme that they feel like they can't hire a carpenter without knowing he voted the same as them in the last election, that really sounds like something beyond a quirk, and more into the realm of mental issues that would benefit from therapy. This is not malicious. As a person who went through intense treatment for OCD many years ago, I genuinely think that if you have issues like this causing you to struggle with fairly routine daily life things, a visit to a mental health professional to make sure things are okay is a really good idea.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1666
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2021, 11:48:18 AM »
just had some work done today on my house. the contractor had a TRUMP/PENCE sticker from the 2016 election, on his truck's rear window.
It didn't bother me. We didn't talk politics; we were transacting business. He has a skill and equipment and I needed some work done.
I don't talk politics with people I don't know. Applies to money, sex, and religion too.

(I have mostly R neighbors, moderates, and some D's. None of us talk politics in the street - everyone's out most evenings taking a walk or working on their front yard.)

Also another rule I follow: don't do business with family. (I have seen my dad getting screwed by his cousins; my FIL has been screwed over too by his siblings.)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:50:01 AM by jinga nation »

bloodaxe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2021, 11:50:25 AM »
Quote
Do I try to find another contractor whose politics aren't abhorrent to me? How could I even do this? Have a conversation with the Trump-supporter that acknowledges that we'll never agree so let's not talk about it? I would love to hear your ideas/input/opinions, etc.

To answer your question, the only way to know about their political beliefs is to ask them.

I've never known the political beliefs of someone I've hired, for what it's worth.

Well, lucky you. Have you actually had someone doing work in your house every day for a month?

I sure got to hear the political opinions of the guys who poured my driveway.

These days itís even easier, because they tend to show up without a mask.

I argue our anecdotal experiences nullify one another.

My point still stands though, OP needs to ask the contractors for their political beliefs. Unless the contractor is advertising who they voted for.

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2021, 11:50:56 AM »
Maybe you should postpone the garage expansion and put some of that money into therapy? It sounds like you have some serious issues hindering you from doing day-to-day things that a mentally-well person would not be struggling with to this degree.

Suggesting someone is mentally ill because they donít want to support a certain group of people? Wow. Why are you so passive-aggressive over this? OP isnít having a super uncommon thought.

I donít personally give a shit what people believe as long as they do good work, Iíd hire them...but Iím not about to judge someone who doesnít want to work with someone who may try to bring up some stuff youíd roll your eyes at. Generally though people are people and you can learn to get along.

This is NOT passive aggressive, I am 100% serious. When a person's obsession becomes so extreme that they feel like they can't hire a carpenter without knowing he voted the same as them in the last election, that really sounds like something beyond a quirk, and more into the realm of mental issues that would benefit from therapy. This is not malicious. As a person who went through intense treatment for OCD many years ago, I genuinely think that if you have issues like this causing you to struggle with fairly routine daily life things, a visit to a mental health professional to make sure things are okay is a really good idea.

how out of touch with reality are you? do you not realize what happened for the past several months the lies told, the mob incited, and what happened and what will continue to happen?

bloodaxe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2021, 11:56:35 AM »
The question OP asked was: how can I avoid hiring trump supporters?

This thread has two sets of people:

  • Those who are emotionally affected by the capitol rush.
  • Those who aren't.

Though OP's question has been answered, we are arguing about whether we should be upset over the capitol events. This is off topic from the OP.

ctuser1

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2021, 12:03:48 PM »
I personally hire contractors without considering politics. I am in a blue state and most Trump supporters tend to hide their views here due to social disapproval. So, while I think many people in the building trades would be Trump supporters, it would be awkward to try to probe that.

You could try hiring Black/Hispanic crew. They may or may not be Trump Supporters, but there is a lower probability. To find them, I'd look for contractors from the inner city of your nearest big city. e.g. I live in CT, so I would look for contractors from inner city Bridgeport or Waterbury. FWIW, I only have done this once for roofing, and the all-Hispanic crew I hired (without actually setting out to do so on purpose) were much cheaper than contractors from more Tony suburban neighborhoods and did a pretty good job.

Given it is your uncle, I may not hire him just on that basis. Mixing business with family is usually tricky.

Generally, I seldom (if ever) discuss politics in real life with anyone except close family. I definitely don't discuss it with any of my neighbors. So I don't see how I can even breach that topic with a contractor without it being super-awkward. They need to wear masks (never encountered one who didn't, when coming into my house), and do a good job. That's all!

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 12:09:38 PM by ctuser1 »

Nick_Miller

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Location: A sprawling estate with one of those cool circular driveways in the front!
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2021, 12:28:12 PM »
Wow, I'm pretty shocked at some of these responses. It's a huge overreaction to say OP isn't warranted in having concerns or not giving the person OP's business. The truth is...EVERYONE has their limit when it comes to these things. I mean that word in all caps like I wrote it. Yes, our limits differ, but we all have them. And it all comes down to circumstances, to be realistic.

But I mean, freaking corporations have pulled funding/sponsorships/etc. because of this. Why on earth would anyone expect that individuals wouldn't either? OP doesn't want to give their $ to people with seditious views. I don't either.

IMO, it's really gross to argue that pro-Trumpers who support the storming of the Capitol just have "political differences" with people like OP and like me. That's like a totally bonkers argument. That's like saying the Confederacy had "mere political differences" with the Union. Those terrorists last week are traitors to the United States of America. And I'll just leave this here to show how many "normal Republicans" supported the Capitol seige. Spolier: 45 percent strongly or somewhat supported it. Just...wow.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 12:38:31 PM by Nick_Miller »

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2021, 01:02:32 PM »
Maybe you should postpone the garage expansion and put some of that money into therapy? It sounds like you have some serious issues hindering you from doing day-to-day things that a mentally-well person would not be struggling with to this degree.

Suggesting someone is mentally ill because they donít want to support a certain group of people? Wow. Why are you so passive-aggressive over this? OP isnít having a super uncommon thought.

I donít personally give a shit what people believe as long as they do good work, Iíd hire them...but Iím not about to judge someone who doesnít want to work with someone who may try to bring up some stuff youíd roll your eyes at. Generally though people are people and you can learn to get along.

This is NOT passive aggressive, I am 100% serious. When a person's obsession becomes so extreme that they feel like they can't hire a carpenter without knowing he voted the same as them in the last election, that really sounds like something beyond a quirk, and more into the realm of mental issues that would benefit from therapy. This is not malicious. As a person who went through intense treatment for OCD many years ago, I genuinely think that if you have issues like this causing you to struggle with fairly routine daily life things, a visit to a mental health professional to make sure things are okay is a really good idea.

Your characterization of the OP as "obsessed" makes me wonder about YOUR mental issues.  They posted a simple question about their dollars following their values and how to handle ethics where things have gone beyond "Trump supporter" to crazy conspiracy theorists that are trying to overthrow our government.  You have blown the OP way way way way way out of proportion on the basis of the slimmest of inferences in that post.

Jesus, people in this thread seem like they must have been already on the very edge of the rockers already because the overreaction was just beyond anything else I've seen on this forum.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4267
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2021, 01:03:05 PM »
I guess the problem is, I don't see from the Republican side, a wholesale denunciation what happened, and Trump's role in it. I am seeing alot of, Trump didn't specifically call out for violence. It was just a small number at the Capitol. Its the same as BLM protests. And repetition of Trump lies. It's not a political difference but a difference in seeing reality. I have not heard or read one of these people say, "Trump lost the election. He should not have cried "fraud". He was wrong in trying to stop the certification of results."  But, no. I do think there is trump derangement syndrome,but maybe it should be called tsds (trump supporter derangement syndrome)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 01:05:15 PM by partgypsy »

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2021, 01:04:11 PM »
Maybe you should postpone the garage expansion and put some of that money into therapy? It sounds like you have some serious issues hindering you from doing day-to-day things that a mentally-well person would not be struggling with to this degree.

Suggesting someone is mentally ill because they donít want to support a certain group of people? Wow. Why are you so passive-aggressive over this? OP isnít having a super uncommon thought.

I donít personally give a shit what people believe as long as they do good work, Iíd hire them...but Iím not about to judge someone who doesnít want to work with someone who may try to bring up some stuff youíd roll your eyes at. Generally though people are people and you can learn to get along.

This is NOT passive aggressive, I am 100% serious. When a person's obsession becomes so extreme that they feel like they can't hire a carpenter without knowing he voted the same as them in the last election, that really sounds like something beyond a quirk, and more into the realm of mental issues that would benefit from therapy. This is not malicious. As a person who went through intense treatment for OCD many years ago, I genuinely think that if you have issues like this causing you to struggle with fairly routine daily life things, a visit to a mental health professional to make sure things are okay is a really good idea.

Your characterization of the OP as "obsessed" makes me wonder about YOUR mental issues.  They posted a simple question about their dollars following their values and how to handle ethics where things have gone beyond "Trump supporter" to crazy conspiracy theorists that are trying to overthrow our government.  You have blown the OP way way way way way out of proportion on the basis of the slimmest of inferences in that post.

Jesus, people in this thread seem like they must have been already on the very edge of the rockers already because the overreaction was just beyond anything else I've seen on this forum.

Right, as someone mentioned up thread. Corporate America is lowering the boom, banks are also lowering the hammer on Trump. The PGA as well.

They go after the OP for wanting to hold to his values while corporate America is speaking as well. It's bad when corporate america says you done F'd up.

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4015
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2021, 01:07:31 PM »
If I could  get a ....perp of high crimes....to do high quality work on my Hermann house, he would be hired.
Averice over principles, thatís my motto. But then, I often vote Republican.

skilled workman...you cannot get them in this environment. They know their worth.

How do ya  know he will even work for you?
Mod note: I don't know what level of satire you're going for here, but uh ... Yeah.  Maybe cut the baby rape "humour" out?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 06:32:35 PM by iris lily »

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2021, 01:08:15 PM »
If I could  get a baby rapist to do high quality work on my Hermann house, he would be hired.
Averice over principles, thatís my motto. But then, I often vote Republican.

bahahahahahah

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2021, 01:17:08 PM »
The question OP asked was: how can I avoid hiring trump supporters?

This thread has two sets of people:

  • Those who are emotionally affected by the capitol rush.
  • Those who aren't.

Though OP's question has been answered, we are arguing about whether we should be upset over the capitol events. This is off topic from the OP.

Honestly, I have preferred to not hire Trump supporters for the past 4 years, though I would just settle for ďplease donít tell me your politicsĒ. But that has grown increasingly difficult, as it seems that many Trump supporters are quite eager to advertise their beliefs.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Australia
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2021, 01:27:38 PM »
The OP seems to generalise that all Trump supporters must be pro-sedition - which I gather is not the case.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me? You might despise my politics but is a political difference of that nature (as opposed to a pro-seditionist nature) sufficient grounds to not use someone's services? In my view the answer is no. Of course this is an individual decision to make so I'm not trying to say my view is final or anything like that. But if I - as a libertarian - went around only accepting services from people who agreed with my politics, I'd starve.

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 01:30:42 PM by Bloop Bloop Reloaded »

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2021, 01:29:44 PM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

Again, it was sort of one thing to support trump pre the 6th which let's be real was already super questionable, but that is no longer the case. If someone still supports Trump they are ok with treason.

But hey, maybe a drop of corporate tax rate of 2% is worth the end of democracy that's wild.

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2021, 01:31:00 PM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

So, how do you feel about Nazis? Thatís not actually some kind of trick rhetorical question.

When people start showing up with t-shirts that say ď6 Million Was Not EnoughĒ, itís time to shit or get off the pot.

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2769
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2021, 01:43:41 PM »
Also, thereís a house 6 blocks from mine with signs out front that say ďTrump 2020 / Make America Great Again / PURGE AND PURIFYĒ

So, I think itís easy to feel cool and unconcerned if youíre in Australia, but personally, Iím glad that weíll be moving this summer because I no longer feel really safe in the place Iíve lived for 25 years.
 
But hey, tax cuts!

FIRE 20/20

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 487
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2021, 01:52:33 PM »
The OP seems to generalise that all Trump supporters must be pro-sedition - which I gather is not the case.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me? You might despise my politics but is a political difference of that nature (as opposed to a pro-seditionist nature) sufficient grounds to not use someone's services? In my view the answer is no. Of course this is an individual decision to make so I'm not trying to say my view is final or anything like that. But if I - as a libertarian - went around only accepting services from people who agreed with my politics, I'd starve.

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

I would agree with most of what you said most of the time.  However, according to recent polling, about 18% of Republicans support the riots at the Capital.  Keep in mind that there were real pipe bombs placed, people were armed with knives, guns, nooses, and zip-tie handcuffs.  They had maps of the Capitol and went directly to unmarked offices of Democratic leaders bypassing the offices that had their names on them but weren't regularly used or were used by staffers.  Prior to the events of the 6th, people who said they were going to attend said people needed to "get ready for war" and to "expect to die" in the siege of the Capitol.  They chanted "Hang Mike Pence" as they entered the Capitol. 
I honestly don't know what would have happened if they people with Zip-tie handcuffs, nooses, and weapons had been able to get to the U.S. Congressional leadership, but given that they beat a police officer to death I am very glad we didn't find out. 

This is not like disagreeing over tax rates or setting fires to cars in riots!  These people gave every indication that they were trying to harm the leaders of the U.S. government. 

J Boogie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2021, 01:58:30 PM »
I think we're all kind of circling around this idea of societal punishment/consequences.

We no longer temporarily fasten people to lumber in the town square for public humiliation. We no longer tar and feather.

But we still have the similar desires that caused us to do that, and people still commit similar offenses to the ones that were met with those punishments.

Over the past decade we got used to seeing prestigious people being the ones humbled by the revelation of their misdeeds, and they would lose their prestigious roles as a result.

But what do we do when someone runs afoul of our unwritten rules, though not afoul of their employer's written rules, and doesn't have a prestigious job to lose? Surely it is better for society and the offending individual for there to be employment for someone who is willing to work. Surely we'd rather not spend our tax dollars paying to cover a meager lifestyle of someone we've shamed out of a job they want back.

There's no Oprah for them to grovel their way back.

That being said, it's perfectly normal to screen out contractors who you are likely to find unpleasant to have hanging around the house for a few weeks/month.

It's not normal to see to it that EVERYONE screens them out.






honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2021, 01:58:38 PM »
This "us vs. them" ideology that politicians and the media have helped fuel is not a good thing. It's that very ideology that leads to events like storming the capitol or attempting to shoot congressmen at a softball practice.

When it comes to siding with people wearing "6 million is not enough" shirts or not.... Yes, there is a divide and no, there is no middle ground.

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2021, 02:00:59 PM »
This "us vs. them" ideology that politicians and the media have helped fuel is not a good thing. It's that very ideology that leads to events like storming the capitol or attempting to shoot congressmen at a softball practice.

When it comes to siding with people wearing "6 million is not enough" shirts or not.... Yes, there is a divide and no, there is no middle ground.

say it louder for the people in the back

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2021, 02:02:19 PM »
I think it's fine to vote with your dollars. Find a small business owned by POC and go with them to directly support people who (by existence) are against Trump's agenda.

Fish Sweet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2021, 02:18:06 PM »
It is wild to me how many people in this thread seem to not understand the basic concept of voting with your dollars, and also how far detached they are from the rhetoric of the fair extremist right and the threat they can pose to minorities. Sorry, there are pro-Trumpers out there who actively would like people like me/my friends dead and/or stripped of my rights. Boohoo, those people don't get to enter my home or get my hard earned money.

I'd do some research - maybe see if there are any local minority-owned contracting companies.  That's not a guarantee that they aren't pro-fascism, but it's a start.  Look over social media feeds, not just what they post, but also what they 'like' or repost/retweet/boost, and glance over any personal pages (FB, twitters, what have you) attached.  Seeing what people 'like' can be very illuminating - even companies that are very apolitical and clean in branding might 'like' lots of political things, since they don't show up in your immediate feed. 

RedmondStash

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2021, 02:22:43 PM »
I think there are two questions here:

1. Should I hire a family member who does good work?
2. Should I hire someone I know for a fact supports someone whose behavior I find dangerous and abhorrent?

You don't have to interrogate every potential contractor for political views -- but you might consider making it clear up front that you do not want politics discussed at your home as the work is being done, for any contractor you hire.

It sounds to me like you're uncomfortable hiring the pro-Trump family member. I think that's reasonable. And I too am shocked by some of the dismissive responses about that position. Tempers are running hot everywhere, I guess.

If you'd be comfortable hiring someone else whose political views you don't know -- and don't care to find out -- that might be the way to go. That way you avoid both the potential discomfort of business trouble with a family member and knowing you're putting $$ in the pocket of someone who supports behavior you object to.

I also wouldn't assume that all building contractors are Trump supporters. People are varied.

I'd do some research - maybe see if there are any local minority-owned contracting companies.  That's not a guarantee that they aren't pro-fascism, but it's a start.  Look over social media feeds, not just what they post, but also what they 'like' or repost/retweet/boost, and glance over any personal pages (FB, twitters, what have you) attached.  Seeing what people 'like' can be very illuminating - even companies that are very apolitical and clean in branding might 'like' lots of political things, since they don't show up in your immediate feed. 

^^ This.

crimp

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2021, 02:26:53 PM »
I support you voting with your dollars. I also support this thread being moved to off-topic by the next moderator who happens to stop by.

CodingHare

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2021, 02:54:00 PM »
It is wild to me how many people in this thread seem to not understand the basic concept of voting with your dollars, and also how far detached they are from the rhetoric of the fair extremist right and the threat they can pose to minorities. Sorry, there are pro-Trumpers out there who actively would like people like me/my friends dead and/or stripped of my rights. Boohoo, those people don't get to enter my home or get my hard earned money.

I'd do some research - maybe see if there are any local minority-owned contracting companies.  That's not a guarantee that they aren't pro-fascism, but it's a start.  Look over social media feeds, not just what they post, but also what they 'like' or repost/retweet/boost, and glance over any personal pages (FB, twitters, what have you) attached.  Seeing what people 'like' can be very illuminating - even companies that are very apolitical and clean in branding might 'like' lots of political things, since they don't show up in your immediate feed.

I can only guess that it is shocking to some that politics are actually effecting the daily lives of the sort of business owners who used to be able to stick their head in the sand regarding politics because "it doesn't effect me!" while also shooting the shit about right wing talking points.

Also agreed that hiring minority owned businesses is a good place to start looking!

tipster350

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 291
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2021, 03:13:17 PM »
Of course I purchase goods and services according to my values.

Today I learned that I am silly or perhaps even mentally ill for avoiding doing business with those who are cruel to animals, have unfair labor practices, overcharge their customers, plunder our natural resources, are racists, anti-Semites, and support Trump (which makes them defacto supporters or all the deplorable practices noted plus many others).

Good to know, thanks.

ps I check social media and find a lot of publicly stated hate and intolerance, which helps me avoid the worst and proudest of the deplorables

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4015
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2021, 04:22:15 PM »
Of course I purchase goods and services according to my values.

Today I learned that I am silly or perhaps even mentally ill for avoiding doing business with those who are cruel to animals, have unfair labor practices, overcharge their customers, plunder our natural resources, are racists, anti-Semites, and support Trump (which makes them defacto supporters or all the deplorable practices noted plus many others).

Good to know, thanks.

ps I check social media and find a lot of publicly stated hate and intolerance, which helps me avoid the worst and proudest of the deplorables

Since you seem to know your primary value in choosing a contractor and that is their political idea, then why ask here?

Of COURSE we vote with our dollars! Every day.

But in my world, people who do good work in the construction trades are very hard to get on board. For me, their politics would make no difference. Even if they felt compelled to stand and jaw at me about their hated candidate of the moment, I can handle that social transaction and deflect it, so again, it wouldnít bother me.

If your relativeís personal characteristics make it impossible  for you to keep politics out of your interactions, sure, that adds to your reasons for not hiring him.

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #81 on: January 13, 2021, 04:23:49 PM »
Of course I purchase goods and services according to my values.

Today I learned that I am silly or perhaps even mentally ill for avoiding doing business with those who are cruel to animals, have unfair labor practices, overcharge their customers, plunder our natural resources, are racists, anti-Semites, and support Trump (which makes them defacto supporters or all the deplorable practices noted plus many others).

Good to know, thanks.

ps I check social media and find a lot of publicly stated hate and intolerance, which helps me avoid the worst and proudest of the deplorables

Since you seem to know your primary value in choosing a contractor and that is their political idea, then why ask here?

Of COURSE we vote with our dollars! Every day.

But in my world, people who do good work in the construction trades are very hard to get on board. For me, their politics would make no difference. Even if they felt compelled to stand and jaw at me about their hated candidate of the moment, I can handle that social transaction and deflect it, so again, it wouldnít bother me.

If your relativeís personal characteristics make it impossible  for you to keep politics out of your interactions, sure, that adds to your reasons for not hiring him.

Are you confusing this person with the OP?  I don't think I've seen them say anything about a relative or ask any question.

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4015
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #82 on: January 13, 2021, 06:34:39 PM »
Of course I purchase goods and services according to my values.

Today I learned that I am silly or perhaps even mentally ill for avoiding doing business with those who are cruel to animals, have unfair labor practices, overcharge their customers, plunder our natural resources, are racists, anti-Semites, and support Trump (which makes them defacto supporters or all the deplorable practices noted plus many others).

Good to know, thanks.

ps I check social media and find a lot of publicly stated hate and intolerance, which helps me avoid the worst and proudest of the deplorables

Since you seem to know your primary value in choosing a contractor and that is their political idea, then why ask here?

Of COURSE we vote with our dollars! Every day.

But in my world, people who do good work in the construction trades are very hard to get on board. For me, their politics would make no difference. Even if they felt compelled to stand and jaw at me about their hated candidate of the moment, I can handle that social transaction and deflect it, so again, it wouldnít bother me.

If your relativeís personal characteristics make it impossible  for you to keep politics out of your interactions, sure, that adds to your reasons for not hiring him.

Are you confusing this person with the OP?  I don't think I've seen them say anything about a relative or ask any question.
Yes, I did  confuse tipster with the OP.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Australia
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #83 on: January 13, 2021, 06:37:09 PM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

So, how do you feel about Nazis? Thatís not actually some kind of trick rhetorical question.

When people start showing up with t-shirts that say ď6 Million Was Not EnoughĒ, itís time to shit or get off the pot.

I wouldn't voluntarily do business with a Nazi (though I wouldn't go around asking service providers if they were Nazis either). However, I don't associate Trump's platform with Nazism.

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2822
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2021, 06:42:29 PM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

So, how do you feel about Nazis? Thatís not actually some kind of trick rhetorical question.

When people start showing up with t-shirts that say ď6 Million Was Not EnoughĒ, itís time to shit or get off the pot.

I wouldn't voluntarily do business with a Nazi (though I wouldn't go around asking service providers if they were Nazis either). However, I don't associate Trump's platform with Nazism.

He recognizes that it is close enough that he can't be bothered to actually decry them as not his supporters or in any way criticize them. He prefers "very good people" and "special", or asked directly to denounce them, "stand by."

TheContinentalOp

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2021, 08:22:20 PM »
Forget their political views! What if they root for the wrong sports team or like the wrong kind of pizza?

Sid Hoffman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 821
  • Location: Southwest USA
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2021, 08:29:24 PM »
I hire people based on if they do a good job, on time, at a reasonable price. I don't care what your sexual orientation is, faith, political beliefs, brand of truck you drive, or anything. Can you do the work well? Good deal.

sui generis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2021, 09:02:51 PM »
Forget their political views! What if they root for the wrong sports team or like the wrong kind of pizza?

Wow, it's totally true that types of pizza and attempts to overthrow the government are so similar.  And thank goodness after almost two full pages of this thread, someone came in to make this extremely apt yet somehow overlooked contribution.  You guys, problem solved!

Freedom2016

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2021, 09:17:17 PM »
I can really understand OP's dilemma.

And, here's something to consider: historically, countries don't go to war with countries they have trading relationships with.

Perhaps maintaining economic connections to each other may be a way of avoiding civil war.


MudPuppy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 794
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2021, 09:19:06 PM »
International trade and hiring contractors are not at all equivalent

L8_apex

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2021, 09:37:37 PM »
Great.  A liberal making politics more important than family. 

314159

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2021, 09:53:00 PM »
Other family that has worked with the Trump-supporter have said that they've agreed to not listen to the radio or discuss politics during projects, so pleasant work atmosphere can be achieved, I'm just... stymied and unsure of what's ethical to do here and fits my morals.

@Maenad, my first thought was to say "don't hire a relative", since if things go wrong, then you have both a business problem and a family problem, not just a business problem. But you say the relative does good quality work, so you probably don't expect there to be an issue with the work (then again, who does, when they hire someone?), and you'd get the friends & family rate. In any case, "you're a relative" is enough reason in itself not to hire someone, if you are so (dis)inclined. And you never have to let anyone know that you have or haven't hired him based on politics.

If you would hire this person as long as you knew they didn't support the Capitol riot, then you could ask him, or have a closer family member ask him. If he decries the riots, then maybe your problem is solved?

Do I try to find another contractor whose politics aren't abhorrent to me? How could I even do this? Have a conversation with the Trump-supporter that acknowledges that we'll never agree so let's not talk about it? I would love to hear your ideas/input/opinions, etc.

If you decide not to hire the relative: remember, you live near Minneapolis, which is full of liberals (e.g. myself). You are not the only person in the Cities who would prefer to avoid seditionist contractors, so I'd bet there are construction firms which are smart enough to wear masks (especially if you mention it) and not talk politics on the job (again, especially if you mention it). I will send you a PM with some specific suggestions, though I expect they are on the expensive side, and I don't know anything about contracting. Good luck!

TheContinentalOp

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2021, 05:17:17 AM »
Forget their political views! What if they root for the wrong sports team or like the wrong kind of pizza?

Wow, it's totally true that types of pizza and attempts to overthrow the government are so similar.  And thank goodness after almost two full pages of this thread, someone came in to make this extremely apt yet somehow overlooked contribution.  You guys, problem solved!


The OP was asking about hiring contractors who have what he considers to have abhorrent political views. Not about the actual actions taken by said contractors. If you don't want to hire the yahoos who stormed the capital, or the lunatics looting and burning down small businesses that's a defensible position. On the other hand demanding some sort of ideological (and pizza-logical) purity test among all those you do business with seems to me to be not healthy either for the individual or society.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Australia
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2021, 05:55:04 AM »
I think it goes back to a bigger issue of not being able to empathise with and humanise people who have strongly opposed political positions to you.

You don't have to agree with their views - but it helps to be able to inhabit their stand and to see their point of view. Ideally you should be able to voice their argument, in a sound and valid way, even if it requires you to assume some factual premises (or even prejudices) that you disagree with.

The problem with a lot of society - and particularly the US - is that it's becoming more and more polarised. More of an echo chamber. On both sides.

In this sense I guess I'm lucky - since most forums (like this) and most decent newspapers are fairly left-leaning, I've always discussed with people who don't share my beliefs.* I've never had the privilege of having an echo chamber.

*I consider myself socially progressive when it comes to identity politics and other snowflake issues but on most other issues I'm an arch neoliberal.

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2021, 06:02:09 AM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

So, how do you feel about Nazis? Thatís not actually some kind of trick rhetorical question.

When people start showing up with t-shirts that say ď6 Million Was Not EnoughĒ, itís time to shit or get off the pot.

I wouldn't voluntarily do business with a Nazi (though I wouldn't go around asking service providers if they were Nazis either). However, I don't associate Trump's platform with Nazism.

Given history of his platform, but more importantly his recent events, maybe reconsider your beliefs

jehovasfitness23

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2021, 06:03:10 AM »
Great.  A liberal making politics more important than family.

great, a conservative not realizing the bigger picture that goes beyond their own self

Maenad

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 643
  • Location: Minneapolis 'burbs
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2021, 06:08:31 AM »
Sorry I disappeared after the OP, but I don't really have a good response to "you need therapy", and thought discretion was the better part of valor.

Just for clarification, if anyone cares, I have had work done by this relative in the past, and it went well - he does good work, and I pay promptly. Family crises averted. He has thrown a couple of crazy bombshells out there, most recently that Democrats "pay for everything with abortions". (Please don't ask, I heard it second hand from someone who is as baffled as I am about it.) It's more than just "voted for Trump", it's very possibly "supports the attempted coup on Jan 6", which is why this is suddenly an issue.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.


Freedom2016

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2021, 06:27:02 AM »
International trade and hiring contractors are not at all equivalent

Maybe it's a clumsy parallel, but do you not see the point I'm trying to make? Countries that maintain economic ties to each other have more resilient relationships that can withstand conflict and disagreement. They don't go to war with each other because they recognize that they need each other.

I'm sympathetic to the OP and understand voting with your dollars. AND, if (when?) we all do that, and create categorical litmus tests for who we will do business with, we exacerbate societal fissures because we reduce our social and economic ties to each other...which isolates the two sides and helps feed a narrative of "otherness" and the idea that we don't need each other. History shows mass atrocities have happened when such conditions become dominant in a given society.

I'm not putting this all on the shoulders of the OP but these are considerations worth pondering, IMO.

Edited to add: I think a reasonable line can be drawn at doing business with people who support/are pleased by the events of Jan 6. Hopefully that still leaves (plenty of?) Trump voters within one's orbit.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 06:30:19 AM by Freedom2016 »

slappy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2021, 06:55:40 AM »
Nowhere in the OP was it said that the OP specifically won't hire only someone who supported the Capitol storming. The OP talks about Trump supporters generally.

I might support Trump solely for the tax cuts. Hypothetically, if that were the case, and I was the best lawyer for the job, why wouldn't you still hire me?

It all seems a little strange to me, and while I appreciate there are two sides to the debate, the level of visceral responses in this thread is a little surprising. If there's anything I've learned to do as I mature, it's to try to be more equable in the face of the majority of the population that doesn't agree with me on a given point.

So, how do you feel about Nazis? Thatís not actually some kind of trick rhetorical question.

When people start showing up with t-shirts that say ď6 Million Was Not EnoughĒ, itís time to shit or get off the pot.

I wouldn't voluntarily do business with a Nazi (though I wouldn't go around asking service providers if they were Nazis either). However, I don't associate Trump's platform with Nazism.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Trump himself does.

mbl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
Re: Contractors/Service Providers and Political Views - how to navigate?
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2021, 06:58:26 AM »
Sorry I disappeared after the OP, but I don't really have a good response to "you need therapy", and thought discretion was the better part of valor.

Just for clarification, if anyone cares, I have had work done by this relative in the past, and it went well - he does good work, and I pay promptly. Family crises averted. He has thrown a couple of crazy bombshells out there, most recently that Democrats "pay for everything with abortions". (Please don't ask, I heard it second hand from someone who is as baffled as I am about it.) It's more than just "voted for Trump", it's very possibly "supports the attempted coup on Jan 6", which is why this is suddenly an issue.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

In the end, contractors who do good work and are reliable are very much in demand.
You can attempt to hire whomever you feel might be a "better fit" for you, but these contractors don't need you at this time,
you need them.  There is quite a bit of work out there and only so many contractors.