Continuing outrages related to our 45th President

[Glenstache]

Is there a law that says someone who is incarcerated cannot appear on the state ballot for President?

Again, I do not think he would go to jail even if he were tried.

The 14th amendment bars anyone who has participated in insurrection from holding office. There are also clauses about giving support to our enemies. This was originally added following the civil war to keep confederates out of office (seems appropriate, all things considered), but has at least a small amount of case law after that. This statute is currently being called on to try and make a person ineligible to run in N. Carolina.
https://wlos.com/news/local/madison-cawthorn-14th-amendment-disqualification-clause-legal-challenge-free-speech-for-people-north-carolina-district-13

[talltexan]

Cawthorn is a blowhard, whose only interest in power is to trade it for fame, and I'm glad to see this suit against him proceeding. Trump is very popular here in NC, btw.

But this would be decided state-by-state, and I think ultimately only the deep blue ones would remove Trump from the ballot for this reason. Would love to be wrong.

[nereo]

Cawthorn is a blowhard, whose only interest in power is to trade it for fame, and I'm glad to see this suit against him proceeding. Trump is very popular here in NC, btw.

But this would be decided state-by-state, and I think ultimately only the deep blue ones would remove Trump from the ballot for this reason. Would love to be wrong.

It would be an interesting wrinkle, though - and one that would thoroughly distort the popular vote tallies.

Say Trump was eliminated from he ballot from three very blue states. Even though it wouldn't change the EC one iota (as the states were going to go blue regardless) Trump would have several million less votes overall.  Dems would jump on this to say (somewhat incorrectly) how soft his support is.  the GOP would jump on this (somewhat incorrectly) to say how unfair the entire process is and how the results don't reflect the "true will of the American people". More teeth-gnashing about how terrible liberal-leaning states are.

I think those arguments would come out regardless of whether he won or lost.

[talltexan]

I think we both agree that distorting the popular vote can only be considered a good thing from the perspective of team Trump.

[Just Joe]

Just read that Fred Trump was arrested - in robes - at a KKK rally in NY in 1927. Donald has gone on to try to obscure the facts around this, denying this ever happened and so forth. I can't blame the the son for the father's crimes but it does help (me) put into perspective where Donald is coming from on many topics.

[Glenstache]

Just read that Fred Trump was arrested - in robes - at a KKK rally in NY in 1927. Donald has gone on to try to obscure the facts around this, denying this ever happened and so forth. I can't blame the the son for the father's crimes but it does help (me) put into perspective where Donald is coming from on many topics.

I'm sure he was just associating with "very fine people."

[Travis]

Just read that Fred Trump was arrested - in robes - at a KKK rally in NY in 1927. Donald has gone on to try to obscure the facts around this, denying this ever happened and so forth. I can't blame the the son for the father's crimes but it does help (me) put into perspective where Donald is coming from on many topics.

Trump projects so much there should be a bright flashing light coming out of his mouth every time he opens it. 

[calimom]

Just read that Fred Trump was arrested - in robes - at a KKK rally in NY in 1927. Donald has gone on to try to obscure the facts around this, denying this ever happened and so forth. I can't blame the the son for the father's crimes but it does help (me) put into perspective where Donald is coming from on many topics.

I'm sure he was just associating with "very fine people."

"There are good people on both sides"

[talltexan]

I'm a little disappointed that contributors to this thread cannot identify an outrageous act or statement committed by a Trump family member within the past 94 years. Is he losing political altitude so rapidly that we're no longer concerned by his fairly obvious path to the Presidency:

• Republicans win control of House
• Republicans vote Donald Trump as Speaker (they could vote McCarthy as speaker now, then he steps down and Trump is elected on 10/31/2024
• Outcome of 2024 election is chaotic because of Republican legislatures of battleground states selecting their own electors
• No legal winner to 2024 election by 1/19/2025
• Speaker of House ascends to Presidency on Noon, 1/20/2025

[talltexan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/18/how-right-embraced-false-claim-clinton-spied-president-trump/

I'm seeing headline in breaking news regarding the Trump team using some of that massive pool of money they've raised to sue the Clintons for "spying" on them during 2016 election.

[six-car-habit]

 Supreme court justice's wife agitates for 2020 election overturning....

 https://www.reuters.com/world/us/supreme-court-justice-thomass-wife-urged-trump-white-house-overturn-2020-2022-03-25/

[nereo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/18/how-right-embraced-false-claim-clinton-spied-president-trump/

I'm seeing headline in breaking news regarding the Trump team using some of that massive pool of money they've raised to sue the Clintons for "spying" on them during 2016 election.

Given that multiple investigations have not found sufficient evidence that the Clinton campaign broke any laws during the 2016 campaign i can only guess this move is part of Trump’s strategy of always attacking - probably in an attempt to stay on the media cycle.

Since Trump was impeached for his conduct with Ukraine anything that doesn’t mention him and Ukraine in the same headline is probably a good thing.

[talltexan]

I have a Trump-supporting co-worker, and he keeps assuring me that Durham will be indicting people any day now.

[nereo]

I have a Trump-supporting co-worker, and he keeps assuring me that Durham will be indicting people any day now.

Yeah, I have a close relative that just knows Biden will be yanked out of office any day now for [conspiracy reasons].  Oddly, Harris will not become Prez because [reasons], but somehow it will be Mark Meadows will will step aside for Trump to.... my brain hurts.

[brandon1827]

I found it interesting that one of the attorneys in NY published his resignation letter; explicitly stating that there was zero doubt that Trump had committed felonies...but that the office failed to prosecute. I thought this would be a reason Trump moved to sue Clinton...to help the news of his without a doubt guilt fade behind everything else going on. I continue to be amazed by how many crimes we know for a fact Trump and his people have committed with zero arrests/indictments

[OtherJen]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/18/how-right-embraced-false-claim-clinton-spied-president-trump/

I'm seeing headline in breaking news regarding the Trump team using some of that massive pool of money they've raised to sue the Clintons for "spying" on them during 2016 election.

Given that multiple investigations have not found sufficient evidence that the Clinton campaign broke any laws during the 2016 campaign i can only guess this move is part of Trump’s strategy of always attacking - probably in an attempt to stay on the media cycle.

Since Trump was impeached for his conduct with Ukraine anything that doesn’t mention him and Ukraine in the same headline is probably a good thing.

Pretty much. From Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over 2016 Russian collusion allegations (Reuters, March 25, 2022):

Jeff Grell, a lawyer who specializes in racketeering cases, said Trump may have waited too long in bringing his racketeering claims. Civil racketeering claims are governed by a four-year statute of limitations, Grell said, but there is usually a big dispute about when that four-year period begins to run.

Grell said defendants may also argue various defenses, such as that Trump’s lawsuit ignores the immunity granted to government agents, the lawsuit doesn’t set forth a pattern of racketeering — which is required for liability — or the lawsuit seeks to chill the exercise of free speech.

Is this another "kraken"?

[Glenstache]

This is not 45 directly, but one of his sycophants. Ginny Thomas, the wife of supreme court justice Clarence Thomas, was communicating with Trump's chief of staff amongst a host of others pushing to have the election overturned. That's right, the wife of a supreme court justice was pushing to have the election overturned (illegally). Think Thomas will recuse himself if she gets wrapped up in any of the legal issues, at least one of which would likely get to SCOTUS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/us/politics/ginni-thomas-trump-mark-meadows.html

[OzzieandHarriet]

Heather Cox Richardson on T$&&&’s lawsuit:

It is a mess, full of debunked claims, misspellings, and outright lies; Aaron Blake of the Washington Post called it a press release. It is impossible to imagine Trump intends to continue the case until it gets to discovery, when the defendants’ lawyers could request his testimony under oath. The complaint asks for a trial, and it appears to be designed to rile up his base with familiar stories—possibly for 2024, as Blake suggests, but, if history is any guide, primarily to encourage donations.

[talltexan]

This is not 45 directly, but one of his sycophants. Ginny Thomas, the wife of supreme court justice Clarence Thomas, was communicating with Trump's chief of staff amongst a host of others pushing to have the election overturned. That's right, the wife of a supreme court justice was pushing to have the election overturned (illegally). Think Thomas will recuse himself if she gets wrapped up in any of the legal issues, at least one of which would likely get to SCOTUS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/us/politics/ginni-thomas-trump-mark-meadows.html

David French is out there acknowledging that Ginni's texts sure look bad, but that the intellectual rigor of Clarence's jurisprudence is obvious for all to see.

[Glenstache]

This is not 45 directly, but one of his sycophants. Ginny Thomas, the wife of supreme court justice Clarence Thomas, was communicating with Trump's chief of staff amongst a host of others pushing to have the election overturned. That's right, the wife of a supreme court justice was pushing to have the election overturned (illegally). Think Thomas will recuse himself if she gets wrapped up in any of the legal issues, at least one of which would likely get to SCOTUS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/us/politics/ginni-thomas-trump-mark-meadows.html

David French is out there acknowledging that Ginni's texts sure look bad, but that the intellectual rigor of Clarence's jurisprudence is obvious for all to see.

I'd imagine that argument is based on how little he has said from the bench.

[talltexan]

Indeed while I've appreciate French's willingness to stick to principles even while Trump has so blatantly defiled the same, I don't share enough of French's principles that I've been willing to pay money for his writing, so I cannot offer a detailed support of Thomas from him.

[talltexan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/28/judge-says-trump-more-than-likely-committeed-crime/

The headline is meant to serve as justification that Trump's communications are not to be kept secret because of privilege. Communications with an attorney are not confidential if they are meant to enable the committing of a crime.

[Glenstache]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/28/judge-says-trump-more-than-likely-committeed-crime/

The headline is meant to serve as justification that Trump's communications are not to be kept secret because of privilege. Communications with an attorney are not confidential if they are meant to enable the committing of a crime.

It does seem that the business side of Trump Inc. could be subject to RICO actions.

[OtherJen]

This is Trump-adjacent, and more broadly relevant to the GQP, but I found it entertaining (in an "oh god, what now" way): Madison Cawthorn is going to get a talking-to from Kevin McCarthy over his latest volatile comment: that he's seen cocaine use and gotten invited to orgies since arriving in Washington

During a closed-door House GOP conference meeting on Tuesday, multiple Republicans in the room said lawmakers stood up to air their anger and frustration over Cawthorn portraying his own colleagues as bacchanalian and sexual deviants.

In one case, Rep. Steve Womack (R-Ark.) stood up and addressed his colleagues, telling them that he rarely speaks during the closed-door weekly meetings but felt he must address the topic because he's now getting questions about participants in Cawthorn's alleged orgies and drug use.

[PathtoFIRE]

...Madison Cawthorn is going to get a talking-to from Kevin McCarthy over his latest volatile comment: that he's seen cocaine use and gotten invited to orgies since arriving in Washington[/url]

I think this could go either way:
-Cawthorn is telling the truth and we're dealing with [frankly on-brand levels of] hypocrisy
-or this is all projection and he's just mad that he hasn't actually been invited to any drug-crazed orgies but just gosh-darn knows that they're happening out of his sight!

[jinga nation]

...Madison Cawthorn is going to get a talking-to from Kevin McCarthy over his latest volatile comment: that he's seen cocaine use and gotten invited to orgies since arriving in Washington[/url]

I think this could go either way:
-Cawthorn is telling the truth and we're dealing with [frankly on-brand levels of] hypocrisy
-or this is all projection and he's just mad that he hasn't actually been invited to any drug-crazed orgies but just gosh-darn knows that they're happening out of his sight!

why not both?

[OzzieandHarriet]

If only …

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/us/politics/trump-mitch-mcconnell-kevin-mccarthy.html

Gift link for those without a subscription:

https://nyti.ms/3EF9REc#permid=117953189

[bacchi]

At this point, I wonder if Trump is doing DeSantis' work for him. Trump is getting most of the attention and is keeping the enthusiasm high, pushing election conspiracies, and holding rallies. DeSantis, meanwhile, is doing Trumpy things in the 3rd most populace state. DeSantis is probably smarter than Trump and doesn't have the taint that Trump has re: the insurrection that might deter some conservative independents.

[brandon1827]

I think DeSantis stepped in it with his fight against Disney. He barely won his election (by something like 30,000 votes) and has proceeded to make mistake after mistake in these performative legislative actions that will almost surely lead to his defeat next time...although he may not care as he seems to just be laying groundwork to run for president anyway. It will be interesting to watch that play out as I think Trump isn't ready to give up the throne yet.

[bacchi]

I think DeSantis stepped in it with his fight against Disney. He barely won his election (by something like 30,000 votes) and has proceeded to make mistake after mistake in these performative legislative actions that will almost surely lead to his defeat next time...although he may not care as he seems to just be laying groundwork to run for president anyway. It will be interesting to watch that play out as I think Trump isn't ready to give up the throne yet.

Yeah, there will definitely be a Trump vs DeSantis throw down. The Democrats can sit and watch as they trade attack ads during the primary.

[Psychstache]

I think DeSantis stepped in it with his fight against Disney. He barely won his election (by something like 30,000 votes) and has proceeded to make mistake after mistake in these performative legislative actions that will almost surely lead to his defeat next time...although he may not care as he seems to just be laying groundwork to run for president anyway. It will be interesting to watch that play out as I think Trump isn't ready to give up the throne yet.

Yeah, there will definitely be a Trump vs DeSantis throw down. The Democrats can sit and watch as they trade attack ads during the primary.

Don't forget about Greg Abbott down here in Texas! He's taken a hard right turn in the Trumpian era of the Republican party and will also likely make a bid for president.

[Just Joe]

Could we mail these three clowns to Putin to play with please?

[nereo]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

[GuitarStv]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

In a sane world, not being able to recall something like that would be more damning than admitting to the truth.

[LaineyAZ]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

In a sane world, not being able to recall something like that would be more damning than admitting to the truth.

Reminded me of when my former attorney supervisor used to ask witnesses like this:  "Ma'am, are you on any memory-affecting medication?"  And he'd emphasize the words memory-affecting.    They would usually be startled and say No.  I always thought this was a great question because the witness couldn't try to use their prescription meds as an excuse or reason to deny their sudden inability to recall events.

[sonofsven]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

What's not shocking is that under oath she won't repeat her normal bs claims.
Hey, I witnessed a President use the "I don't recall" line and he's a hero of the right wing. He was either lying or suffering from cognitive malfunction. Or both.

[MasterStache]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

In a sane world, not being able to recall something like that would be more damning than admitting to the truth.

Funny I was thinking the same thing. We don't really live in a sane world though do we? Over 74 million people in our country cast their votes in 2020 for preference of authoritarianism over freedom.

On a side note we have decided Florida will no longer be a place on our vacation and possible retirement list. Funny enough my retired neighbor, who frequents Florida, said the same thing.

[Travis]

Continue to be shocked at the pass Taylor-Greene is getting for saying under oath she “cannot recall” whether she urged Trump to evoke marital law to remain in power after January 6th.  Does anyone seriously believe that’s something a person with full control of their cognitive functions would forget?

In a sane world, not being able to recall something like that would be more damning than admitting to the truth.

In another forum somebody said "there should be a limit to how many times you can say "I cannot recall" under oath before being cognitively disqualified from holding public office."

[talltexan]

It was a tumultuous last few days, which ended with an apparent path back to an active twitter presence for the former President.

[bacchi]

It was a tumultuous last few days, which ended with an apparent path back to an active twitter presence for the former President.

Which may or may not matter. It depends on if Twitter becomes a cesspool. With enough "free speech" (from bots and sock puppets), it could quickly sink to meaninglessness -- at best, it would become a competitor to Gab, which isn't given much press beyond the alt-right echo chamber.

[talltexan]

Suppose I wanted to build an argument that Trump's return to twitter might...cost Republicans seats in November? Based on the experience of Georgia in January of last year?

[bacchi]

Suppose I wanted to build an argument that Trump's return to twitter might...cost Republicans seats in November? Based on the experience of Georgia in January of last year?

I  can see that happening. His tweets alone bring out the anti-Trump vote.

They also bring out the coup attempts.

[MasterStache]

You have to appreciate the irony. They are all so pissed off at Twitter yet have done everything they can to get around the bans and even tried to start a Twitter competitor that is failing bigly.

I'm sure the cult members are looking forward once again to seeing Tweets about toilets and dishwashers. You know, issues most important to society. 

[Glenstache]

The problem is that in our media environment Trump sucks all of the air out of the room. His (godawful) presence doesn't allow much room for others to have a meaningful presence. I'd be happier if we just went to ranked choice voting in primaries, which would quickly flush people like trump out.

[bacchi]

This isn't a continuing outrage of the defeated former President but it still surprises me when I learn that certain people fell so deeply into the conspiracy rabbit hole that Trump created.

Take Scott Perry, US Rep from PA. He was texting Meadows that the election was stolen by the Chinese Brits Italians (yes, the culprits were updated as he "researched" more). He was sharing youtube videos to "prove" that the election was stolen. This guy was in the military for 40 years and retired as a Brigadier General; he didn't start off as a nutter like MTG (presumably).

This phenomenon is probably worth a dozen dissertations on mass psychosis and the internet mob.

[Just Joe]

I once would have assumed that people at that level would rely on better information than rumors on YouTube. That they have access to better information. A better crystal ball. More than ever it feels like nobody is at the wheel at least for one of the two parties. Perhaps we should look past the ignorance of the politicians to the long term government employees?

[Glenstache]

I once would have assumed that people at that level would rely on better information than rumors on YouTube. That they have access to better information. A better crystal ball. More than ever it feels like nobody is at the wheel at least for one of the two parties. Perhaps we should look past the ignorance of the politicians to the long term government employees?

But that same party also desperately wants to dismantle the cadre of long term government employees bringing consistency across administrations... aka the Deep State.

[nereo]

I once would have assumed that people at that level would rely on better information than rumors on YouTube. That they have access to better information. A better crystal ball. More than ever it feels like nobody is at the wheel at least for one of the two parties. Perhaps we should look past the ignorance of the politicians to the long term government employees?

But that same party also desperately wants to dismantle the cadre of long term government employees bringing consistency across administrations... aka the Deep State.

As someone who has a bunch of family crazies who rail against both “un-elected beaurocrats” and “the deep state” I’d say they are viewed as two separate entities.

To them:
The long-term government employees are largely incompetent free-loaders getting rich off their government pensions while being completely unfireable.  They are always (always!) less competent than their private-sector colleagues and “couldn’t hack” a “real job”.

The ‘deep-state’ is a collection of liberal wealthy elite inside the government who meet in pizza parlors and underneath Masonic monuments. They’ve using the Jews (somehow) to control all levers of power (again… somehow), and have duped the stupid government workers to push their neo-liberal American-hating agenda, which involves child pornography rings and ‘grooming’ our youth to become non-binary citizens who think our history incluces lots of racism and slavery.

There’s no lack of irony that they view government as both incompetent and simultaniously  completely all-powerful.  It’s both, and neither - all at once!

[Psychstache]

There’s no lack of irony that they view government as both incompetent and simultaniously  completely all-powerful.  It’s both, and neither - all at once!

Schrodinger's bureaucrat

[Glenstache]

Qanon: how to distrust government deep state while simultaneously devotedly following a career government insider.