Continuing outrages related to our 45th President

[Just Joe]

I've never heard the term until just now but describes what I see the GOP doing on a daily basis. Especially Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitposting

[talltexan]

I try not to elevate shocking comments by Trump, because they're designed to get attention, as they always were.

But, dang.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/12/trumps-callous-comments-pence-jan-6-inescapable-conclusion-they-reinforce/

Reporting has indicated Trump was still pushing for Congress to overturn the election even after the riot.

[OzzieandHarriet]

I try not to elevate shocking comments by Trump, because they're designed to get attention, as they always were.

But, dang.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/12/trumps-callous-comments-pence-jan-6-inescapable-conclusion-they-reinforce/

Reporting has indicated Trump was still pushing for Congress to overturn the election even after the riot.

Trump being callous and outrageous, such a shock. (WTF reporters?)

[talltexan]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

[RetiredAt63]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

He needs the money?  It is losing too much money?

Plus what will his health be like in 4 years?  3 really, for the campaign.  He isn't that much older than I am, but he is a lot less healthy.  And I wouldn't want to endure that kind of campaign.

[OzzieandHarriet]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

He needs the money?  It is losing too much money?

Plus what will his health be like in 4 years?  3 really, for the campaign.  He isn't that much older than I am, but he is a lot less healthy.  And I wouldn't want to endure that kind of campaign.

He loves campaigning, which for him means doing those Nazi-style rallies. Though maybe they wouldn’t be as much fun (for him) a second time.

[RetiredAt63]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

He needs the money?  It is losing too much money?

Plus what will his health be like in 4 years?  3 really, for the campaign.  He isn't that much older than I am, but he is a lot less healthy.  And I wouldn't want to endure that kind of campaign.

He loves campaigning, which for him means doing those Nazi-style rallies. Though maybe they wouldn’t be as much fun (for him) a second time.

I'm fully expecting him to have a stroke or serious heart attack before then.  I'm sure his campaigning is done without much strain on his part.

[nereo]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

He needs the money?  It is losing too much money?

Plus what will his health be like in 4 years?  3 really, for the campaign.  He isn't that much older than I am, but he is a lot less healthy.  And I wouldn't want to endure that kind of campaign.

The simple answer is that he’s losing money in a very big way on that particular property ($74 million in the red over four years) and without being president the lobbyist and foreign dignitaries that were willing to stay there to curry favor have dried up.

In order to secure the property Trump Had to put at least $200MM in renovations, and by some accounts those ran well over that.

[Travis]

I saw the headline about Trump selling the Trump Hotel, DC.

I have reasoned myself into taking encouragement from this. Why would he sell this hotel if he expected to become President again?

He needs the money?  It is losing too much money?

Plus what will his health be like in 4 years?  3 really, for the campaign.  He isn't that much older than I am, but he is a lot less healthy.  And I wouldn't want to endure that kind of campaign.

The simple answer is that he’s losing money in a very big way on that particular property ($74 million in the red over four years) and without being president the lobbyist and foreign dignitaries that were willing to stay there to curry favor have dried up.

In order to secure the property Trump Had to put at least $200MM in renovations, and by some accounts those ran well over that.

His PAC, legal fund, and social media channel deal are pretty much Gofundme campaigns for him.  I would not be surprised if suddenly his bills get paid and then claims some kind of audit immunity.

He loves campaigning, which for him means doing those Nazi-style rallies. Though maybe they wouldn’t be as much fun (for him) a second time.

Public speaking is mana to him. Thousands of people chanting in support of his ego. He still holds influence over elections. He'll stay in the spotlight as long as he can continue to make money from it and be a big player in the game.

[talltexan]

We saw Sarah Palin in this same awkward place from 2008-2011, where it was clear she had zero interest in actual policy, but the possibility that she could become President was real enough that people couldn't ignore her.

Trump will not make as much money if he forecloses the possibility that he'll become President in 2024 himself. Regardless of whether he wants the job (or just the legal indemnity that the job will provide him), he has a great financial motivation to keep himself on the path toward the job now.

[partgypsy]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

[talltexan]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

[former player]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

They held because honest Republicans upheld the Constitution.  The Republican Party is currently in a race to replace all the honest Republicans in electoral positions with Trump supporters who spout "the election was rigged" rhetoric.  There is no guarantee that such fanatics won't follow the putative Trump playbook of refusing to certify elctions in time for their State's votes to be counted in the Electoral College.  And no guarantee that the current Supreme Court would intervene early enough and forcefully enough to make that certification happen, especially if the race is close and republican fanatics make enough noise about vote rigging - or succeed in excluding enough opposition votes through revised procedures.

[Kris]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

They held because honest Republicans upheld the Constitution.  The Republican Party is currently in a race to replace all the honest Republicans in electoral positions with Trump supporters who spout "the election was rigged" rhetoric.  There is no guarantee that such fanatics won't follow the putative Trump playbook of refusing to certify elctions in time for their State's votes to be counted in the Electoral College.  And no guarantee that the current Supreme Court would intervene early enough and forcefully enough to make that certification happen, especially if the race is close and republican fanatics make enough noise about vote rigging - or succeed in excluding enough opposition votes through revised procedures.

Yep. They held this time. But for many in the Republican Party, it was a trial balloon. It will be tried again. And next time, those who would do anything to remain in power will have learned from the experience.

[partgypsy]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

They held because honest Republicans upheld the Constitution.  The Republican Party is currently in a race to replace all the honest Republicans in electoral positions with Trump supporters who spout "the election was rigged" rhetoric.  There is no guarantee that such fanatics won't follow the putative Trump playbook of refusing to certify elctions in time for their State's votes to be counted in the Electoral College.  And no guarantee that the current Supreme Court would intervene early enough and forcefully enough to make that certification happen, especially if the race is close and republican fanatics make enough noise about vote rigging - or succeed in excluding enough opposition votes through revised procedures.

Yep. They held this time. But for many in the Republican Party, it was a trial balloon. It will be tried again. And next time, those who would do anything to remain in power will have learned from the experience.

yes. The thing is, what are we as citizens going to do about it? to prevent this from happening? And why the F are people voting for politicians who are willing to ignore the constitution?

[nereo]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

They held because honest Republicans upheld the Constitution.  The Republican Party is currently in a race to replace all the honest Republicans in electoral positions with Trump supporters who spout "the election was rigged" rhetoric.  There is no guarantee that such fanatics won't follow the putative Trump playbook of refusing to certify elctions in time for their State's votes to be counted in the Electoral College.  And no guarantee that the current Supreme Court would intervene early enough and forcefully enough to make that certification happen, especially if the race is close and republican fanatics make enough noise about vote rigging - or succeed in excluding enough opposition votes through revised procedures.

Yep. They held this time. But for many in the Republican Party, it was a trial balloon. It will be tried again. And next time, those who would do anything to remain in power will have learned from the experience.

yes. The thing is, what are we as citizens going to do about it? to prevent this from happening? And why the F are people voting for politicians who
are willing to ignore the constitution?

Same reasons why self-described religious people can completely ignore core teachings of their faith while claiming a moral superiority?

I’ve long suspected that Jesus, Mohammad etc would be pretty disappointed by their most vocal and actionable supporters. Now I’m pretty certain the Framers would not approve of many who wrap themselves in the flag, want a massive standing military and who want government to play a larger role in their religion.

[OzzieandHarriet]

Finished reading the book Peril, which was about the last 2 years of the Trump administration, and onboarding of Biden. No big surprises, though it is interesting the joint chiefs of staffs grave concern that Trump may start a war, even a nuclear war post election, and safeguards to prevent that. And the various ways Trump and his lawyers floated invalidating the election results so he could remain president. The only reason Trump isn't president, many critical people told him no. Election officials, Vice President Pence. Honestly what is so scary is how close we came to a coup. A savvier member of the GOP can use that as a playbook to overturn results in key states, to "win". Not in the book but I have read trump-friendly election officials are being installed. and unprecedented number of laws intended to suppress voting have been pushed. There is the possibility in the next 10 years, the US will no longer be a democracy. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Not disputing anything you say, but it's important to stress: the reason Trump isn't President is that we had an election, and he lost it, and enough of our legal safeguards--as based on The Constitution--held.

I thought that the only reason that Trump wasn’t able to do more damage and lead a successful coup or start a nuclear war was because a few key people DIDN’T follow strictly legal procedures. For example, Milley: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/14/peril-woodward-costa-trump-milley-china/

[Travis]

And why the F are people voting for politicians who are willing to ignore the constitution?

"F*ck the other Party!" is a good enough reason to elect somebody these days. There's a first-termer punk kid in the House right now from North Carolina who has never read the Constitution and boasts that he doesn't show up to vote because it's all "Democrat stuff anyways." There are members of Congress who may actually be crazy who have made perpetuating conspiracy theories and inciting riots their full time job.  They'll probably be reelected.  Last go around the Democrat running against Gov. Ducey in Arizona campaigned on "I'm not Donald Trump." Sorry guy, I need a little more than that to go on. Ducey was pegged as a Trump lackey right up until he certified the election with Trump blowing up his phone on live television. The next day he started getting recall threats.  In two years he might see a primary challenger who will campaign on "you didn't save Trump you traitor!" and it'll be a close election.  Ducey received over 60% of the vote while the same voters sent two Democrats to the Senate, so there may be hope in some corners. 

That said, the Arizona GOP worked behind his back to try to nullify the results to include hiring a private party to audit the election. It didn't work, but the folks above saying someone will keep trying until they get it to happen are correct. The day after the election, several GOP-controlled legislatures realized they have the power to change the laws and stack the deck on appointees to do whatever they want the next time.

[LaineyAZ]

Yep, Bill Maher, among others, is convinced we will see a coup in the 2024 election. 
Reasons are:
- Gerrymandering which allows continued election of Republicans despite their numerical minority
- Republican state legislatures taking the certification of the vote away from the Secretary of State's office and allowing state representatives to do the certifying
- U.S. Supreme Ct. now stacked with conservatives
- a surprisingly large number of Americans who will be okay with all of this

He said January 6th was just a dry run. 

[partgypsy]

Yep, Bill Maher, among others, is convinced we will see a coup in the 2024 election. 
Reasons are:
- Gerrymandering which allows continued election of Republicans despite their numerical minority
- Republican state legislatures taking the certification of the vote away from the Secretary of State's office and allowing state representatives to do the certifying
- U.S. Supreme Ct. now stacked with conservatives
- a surprisingly large number of Americans who will be okay with all of this

He said January 6th was just a dry run.

I'm afraid he might be right. The 4 years of Trump was a "stress-test" of weaknesses of our democracy, in particular what are areas it can be subverted without an outright coup. So, we have found, and as we are seeing with the movements of GOP, that they are now planning a way to "legally" steal the vote from millions of people. And there might not be a damn thing we can do about it (except literally rioting in the streets).

[former player]

Yep, Bill Maher, among others, is convinced we will see a coup in the 2024 election. 
Reasons are:
- Gerrymandering which allows continued election of Republicans despite their numerical minority
- Republican state legislatures taking the certification of the vote away from the Secretary of State's office and allowing state representatives to do the certifying
- U.S. Supreme Ct. now stacked with conservatives
- a surprisingly large number of Americans who will be okay with all of this

He said January 6th was just a dry run.

I'm afraid he might be right. The 4 years of Trump was a "stress-test" of weaknesses of our democracy, in particular what are areas it can be subverted without an outright coup. So, we have found, and as we are seeing with the movements of GOP, that they are now planning a way to "legally" steal the vote from millions of people. And there might not be a damn thing we can do about it (except literally rioting in the streets).

And then rioting in the streets makes you the bad guys justifying the use of force and legalised repression to stop you.

[OtherJen]

Yep, Bill Maher, among others, is convinced we will see a coup in the 2024 election. 
Reasons are:
- Gerrymandering which allows continued election of Republicans despite their numerical minority
- Republican state legislatures taking the certification of the vote away from the Secretary of State's office and allowing state representatives to do the certifying
- U.S. Supreme Ct. now stacked with conservatives
- a surprisingly large number of Americans who will be okay with all of this

He said January 6th was just a dry run.

I'm afraid he might be right. The 4 years of Trump was a "stress-test" of weaknesses of our democracy, in particular what are areas it can be subverted without an outright coup. So, we have found, and as we are seeing with the movements of GOP, that they are now planning a way to "legally" steal the vote from millions of people. And there might not be a damn thing we can do about it (except literally rioting in the streets).

And then rioting in the streets makes you the bad guys justifying the use of force and legalised repression to stop you.

Yep. The christo-fascists sure have played this one nicely against the rest of us, haven't they?

[scottish]

It's a pretty standard playbook isn't it?    Once 1/2 of the population loses interest in democracy and peaceful transfer of power you're going to have big challenges ahead.

[nereo]

It's a pretty standard playbook isn't it?    Once 1/2 of the population loses interest in democracy and peaceful transfer of power you're going to have big challenges ahead.

Are you suggesting 1/2 the country identifies as Republican? Because all the survey data I’ve seen refutes that unequivocally

[former player]

You don't need 50% Republican, you need 50% Republican/non-voters/apathetic/uninformed/they're all useless.

[GuitarStv]

It's a pretty standard playbook isn't it?    Once 1/2 of the population loses interest in democracy and peaceful transfer of power you're going to have big challenges ahead.

If half of the population living under democracy has lost interest in living under a democracy . . . you are no longer really living under a democracy.

[MudPuppy]

You’re getting so close

[partgypsy]

It's a pretty standard playbook isn't it?    Once 1/2 of the population loses interest in democracy and peaceful transfer of power you're going to have big challenges ahead.

If half of the population living under democracy has lost interest in living under a democracy . . . you are no longer really living under a democracy.

OMG you are right. I think there is a pretty large proportion of Americans who don't see value in being in a Democracy. This is concerning.

[OzzieandHarriet]

It's a pretty standard playbook isn't it?    Once 1/2 of the population loses interest in democracy and peaceful transfer of power you're going to have big challenges ahead.

If half of the population living under democracy has lost interest in living under a democracy . . . you are no longer really living under a democracy.

OMG you are right. I think there is a pretty large proportion of Americans who don't see value in being in a Democracy. This is concerning.

I think this is the result of several generations of degraded public education, with the selling point being that parents should be the ones to educate their children, not the government. And slowly, civil rights and privacy and all that jazz have been eroded, like the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil. Who here had to take a civics class in public school? I certainly didn't, and I'm 64.

[DaMa]

I think this is the result of several generations of degraded public education, with the selling point being that parents should be the ones to educate their children, not the government. And slowly, civil rights and privacy and all that jazz have been eroded, like the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil. Who here had to take a civics class in public school? I certainly didn't, and I'm 64.

I've seen this said before.  Where did you go to school?  My parents were required to take civics/government in high school in the mid to late 60s.  I had to take it in the mid 80s.  My children had to take it in the 00s.  It is still a requirement in Michigan.

[LonerMatt]

People don't need to be interested in a type of system to participate. Nor should civil interest be a pre-requisite for basic civil responsibility. You don't have to care about traffic laws to obey them, you don't need to be passionate for health codes to abide by them.

Just do what we do here:
- Voting is on the weekend, but if you can't make it postal votes and early votes are free, easy and accessible
- Make it mandatory to vote - everyone 10 and over has to vote (or get a small fine of like $50)
- Remove as many barriers to voting as possible (we don't have to show ID (though the current government would like us to), we literally just say our name and address and get ticked off)

America should absolutely get rid of the un-democractic bullshit that is voter suppression (in all its forms) and make federal elections a public holiday (if it has to be a Tuesday might as well make it a Tuesday where it's easier to vote).

[PKFFW]

I think this is the result of several generations of degraded public education, with the selling point being that parents should be the ones to educate their children, not the government. And slowly, civil rights and privacy and all that jazz have been eroded, like the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil. Who here had to take a civics class in public school? I certainly didn't, and I'm 64.

Maybe it's also a sign of a poor education system that so many people believe a story that is complete bunk.  A frog in a pot of cold water slowly brought to the boil will jump out of the water as soon as it gets too hot.

[RetiredAt63]

People don't need to be interested in a type of system to participate. Nor should civil interest be a pre-requisite for basic civil responsibility. You don't have to care about traffic laws to obey them, you don't need to be passionate for health codes to abide by them.

Just do what we do here:
- Voting is on the weekend, but if you can't make it postal votes and early votes are free, easy and accessible
- Make it mandatory to vote - everyone 10 and over has to vote (or get a small fine of like $50)
- Remove as many barriers to voting as possible (we don't have to show ID (though the current government would like us to), we literally just say our name and address and get ticked off)

America should absolutely get rid of the un-democractic bullshit that is voter suppression (in all its forms) and make federal elections a public holiday (if it has to be a Tuesday might as well make it a Tuesday where it's easier to vote).

Where do you live that 10 and over is eligible to vote?  It is usually 18.   ;-)

We have to show ID but it is pretty minimal.  We get time off work to vote - you have to have 4 consecutive hours while the polls are open.  And of course there is advance voting and mail-in voting.  Our electoral riding boundaries are determined by independent groups.  Elections Canada runs Federal elections, each province has its own elections org for provincial elections.  Elections Canada works hard to get people to vote.

The control of American state governments over federal elections truly boggles my Canadian mind.  I don't want Ontario, or Quebec, or Alberta, or PEI, or any province or territory to have a say in how federal elections are run.  Imagine a separatist government in Quebec running a federal election.  Just, NO.  Of course the feds don't get a say in how provincial elections are run either.


 

[OtherJen]

I think this is the result of several generations of degraded public education, with the selling point being that parents should be the ones to educate their children, not the government. And slowly, civil rights and privacy and all that jazz have been eroded, like the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil. Who here had to take a civics class in public school? I certainly didn't, and I'm 64.

I've seen this said before.  Where did you go to school?  My parents were required to take civics/government in high school in the mid to late 60s.  I had to take it in the mid 80s.  My children had to take it in the 00s.  It is still a requirement in Michigan.

It’s fairly watered down, though. I took “Government Studies” in a public high school in Wayne County, MI in 1995. That was a joke. One of my friends recently (earlier this month) spoke with the MI state Board of Ed. and learned that although there is a state requirement for civics education, it isn’t standardized. The contents are up to the individual school district.

[talltexan]

I scored a 4 on the AP Government test.

That material didn't prepare me well for the era of the "Imperial Presidency" and "Unified Executive". I barely understood that the Attorney General did anything important at all, but it seems to really matter which party is able to appoint one.

[nereo]

This just leaves me shaking my head at the degree of enabling by the RNC and the willingness of Trump to fleece his own supporters.

The RNC confirmed in filing that they’ve paid more than $121k in legal fees this year for personal legal fees related to the SDNY’s investigation which is probing Trump’s tax and business dealings before he was president

The best analogy I have is that this is akin to a person submitting an expense report after being fired for questionable trips they made years before they were hired.

Seriously RNC?  WTF…

[brandon1827]

It's Trump's party...of course they're paying his bills. I'm sure they'll continue to do so as long he wishes it. The grift never ends.

[nereo]

It's Trump's party...of course they're paying his bills. I'm sure they'll continue to do so as long he wishes it. The grift never ends.

How does that not violate campaign finance laws? Are they really that meaningless?? 
If a non-candidate can be given large sums of money for things utterly unrelated to a past or upcoming election, then there seems to be no limits whatsoever

[GuitarStv]

It's Trump's party...of course they're paying his bills. I'm sure they'll continue to do so as long he wishes it. The grift never ends.

How does that not violate campaign finance laws? Are they really that meaningless?? 
If a non-candidate can be given large sums of money for things utterly unrelated to a past or upcoming election, then there seems to be no limits whatsoever

Money is speech.  Speech is freedom.  War is Peace.  We've always been at war with Eurasia.

[talltexan]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/01/trump-tested-positive-covid-before-biden-debate-chief-staff-mark-meadows-book

If Meadows can be believed, the President tested positive for COVID and continued working a full schedule for days.

[Travis]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/01/trump-tested-positive-covid-before-biden-debate-chief-staff-mark-meadows-book

If Meadows can be believed, the President tested positive for COVID and continued working a full schedule for days.

Didn't need Meadows to confirm that. The timeline of the debate to his hospitalization jives with him being sick for a week and knowing about it.

[Travis]

It's Trump's party...of course they're paying his bills. I'm sure they'll continue to do so as long he wishes it. The grift never ends.

How does that not violate campaign finance laws? Are they really that meaningless?? 
If a non-candidate can be given large sums of money for things utterly unrelated to a past or upcoming election, then there seems to be no limits whatsoever

The Law: this thing is illegal on paper.
Trump: are you going to charge me or arrest me for it? No? Then I'm going to do it.

[talltexan]

SCOTUS held oral arguments on the Mississippi case in which they asked for the overturning of Roe v. Wade today. I'm not seeing any reporting to make me think it won't happen, but we wait until June for these decisions to come out usually.

Frankly, while many here seem to be able to accurately measure the man, that overturning of Roe will probably guarantee that Trump is perceived as the greatest President ever by a whole lot of people.

I personally believe women deserve every right to health care, and I am outraged when government encumbers that, so it's easy for me to be outraged over this. But there are many people who celebrate this as a victory, and I would love to know what could be done to help those people to see that--even if they celebrate being in a post-Roe world--the cost of inflicting Trump on the country and the world was sufficiently large that on net they, too, are worse off.

[Kris]

SCOTUS held oral arguments on the Mississippi case in which they asked for the overturning of Roe v. Wade today. I'm not seeing any reporting to make me think it won't happen, but we wait until June for these decisions to come out usually.

Frankly, while many here seem to be able to accurately measure the man, that overturning of Roe will probably guarantee that Trump is perceived as the greatest President ever by a whole lot of people.

I personally believe women deserve every right to health care, and I am outraged when government encumbers that, so it's easy for me to be outraged over this. But there are many people who celebrate this as a victory, and I would love to know what could be done to help those people to see that--even if they celebrate being in a post-Roe world--the cost of inflicting Trump on the country and the world was sufficiently large that on net they, too, are worse off.

Yep. Pro-lifers will think of Trump as a hero/god for this. It will have implications on the party as a whole, the 2024 elections, and the future of authoritarian rule in this country.

[talltexan]

SCOTUS held oral arguments on the Mississippi case in which they asked for the overturning of Roe v. Wade today. I'm not seeing any reporting to make me think it won't happen, but we wait until June for these decisions to come out usually.

Frankly, while many here seem to be able to accurately measure the man, that overturning of Roe will probably guarantee that Trump is perceived as the greatest President ever by a whole lot of people.

I personally believe women deserve every right to health care, and I am outraged when government encumbers that, so it's easy for me to be outraged over this. But there are many people who celebrate this as a victory, and I would love to know what could be done to help those people to see that--even if they celebrate being in a post-Roe world--the cost of inflicting Trump on the country and the world was sufficiently large that on net they, too, are worse off.

Yep. Pro-lifers will think of Trump as a hero/god for this. It will have implications on the party as a whole, the 2024 elections, and the future of authoritarian rule in this country.

If there is still a path to optimism, it's in Trump realizing that he is already perceived as this and stepping aside. That doesn't mean there won't be problems when Josh Hawley gets installed as President-for-life in 2024.

[GuitarStv]

SCOTUS held oral arguments on the Mississippi case in which they asked for the overturning of Roe v. Wade today. I'm not seeing any reporting to make me think it won't happen, but we wait until June for these decisions to come out usually.

Frankly, while many here seem to be able to accurately measure the man, that overturning of Roe will probably guarantee that Trump is perceived as the greatest President ever by a whole lot of people.

I personally believe women deserve every right to health care, and I am outraged when government encumbers that, so it's easy for me to be outraged over this. But there are many people who celebrate this as a victory, and I would love to know what could be done to help those people to see that--even if they celebrate being in a post-Roe world--the cost of inflicting Trump on the country and the world was sufficiently large that on net they, too, are worse off.

We all saw this coming.  I remember when Kavenaugh was being confirmed that some posters who refused to believe what was obviously happening.

He gave them 2 Supreme Court Justices likely to be sympathetic to these laws, which is why they're passing these laws now. These are all intended to give the SC cases to hear that could overturn Roe v. Wade. Trump deserves a lot of blame (or credit, depending on your perspective) for this.

Adhering to stare decisis, Justice Kavanaugh will exercise judicial restraint and vote with Chief Justice Roberts and the Court's liberal bloc to uphold Roe if a challenge to it comes before the Court.

I'm not sufficiently informed of  Justice Gorsuch's judicial temperament to confidently predict  how he would vote.

Wonder if John Galt Incarnate! has arrived at a new perspective.

[brandon1827]

I don't think this helps Trump or Republicans. Polls taken show something like 75% of Americans support upholding Roe v. Wade. I understand they feel like it's this huge, cultural war win for them...but I think all it will end up doing is motivating Democrats and Independents to come out and vote most likely

[Kris]

SCOTUS held oral arguments on the Mississippi case in which they asked for the overturning of Roe v. Wade today. I'm not seeing any reporting to make me think it won't happen, but we wait until June for these decisions to come out usually.

Frankly, while many here seem to be able to accurately measure the man, that overturning of Roe will probably guarantee that Trump is perceived as the greatest President ever by a whole lot of people.

I personally believe women deserve every right to health care, and I am outraged when government encumbers that, so it's easy for me to be outraged over this. But there are many people who celebrate this as a victory, and I would love to know what could be done to help those people to see that--even if they celebrate being in a post-Roe world--the cost of inflicting Trump on the country and the world was sufficiently large that on net they, too, are worse off.

We all saw this coming.  I remember when Kavenaugh was being confirmed that some posters who refused to believe what was obviously happening.

He gave them 2 Supreme Court Justices likely to be sympathetic to these laws, which is why they're passing these laws now. These are all intended to give the SC cases to hear that could overturn Roe v. Wade. Trump deserves a lot of blame (or credit, depending on your perspective) for this.

Adhering to stare decisis, Justice Kavanaugh will exercise judicial restraint and vote with Chief Justice Roberts and the Court's liberal bloc to uphold Roe if a challenge to it comes before the Court.

I'm not sufficiently informed of  Justice Gorsuch's judicial temperament to confidently predict  how he would vote.

Wonder if John Galt Incarnate! has arrived at a new perspective.

It was obvious at the time. I couldn't believe anyone actually bought that Kavanaugh would respect stare decisis.

[waltworks]

I don't think this helps Trump or Republicans. Polls taken show something like 75% of Americans support upholding Roe v. Wade. I understand they feel like it's this huge, cultural war win for them...but I think all it will end up doing is motivating Democrats and Independents to come out and vote most likely

I know a lot of very pro-life people, and they are absolutely ok with losing elections for a long time going forward in exchange for getting rid of Roe. It is their #1 issue in all of American politics.

I mean, the whole point of politics is to enact policies you want. Winning elections is just a means to your policy ends, unless you're such a red team/blue team partisan that the actual issues don't matter to you as much as "owning" the libs/repubs/whoever.

Americans (myself included) tend to have mixed/messy feelings about abortion. I don't think we'll much of a reaction electorally, honestly, since the most motivated people on both sides of the debate were already basically locks to show up and vote for their respective parties. The mushy middle will vote based on the economy/gas prices/inflation like always.

I'll also throw this in - I blame RBG as much as anyone. She was a very smart person and should have known that rolling the dice and not retiring during the Obama administration as a frail 70-something cancer survivor was a pretty stupid idea. But I assume power and prestige and ego are hard to set aside, and now we see the results.

-W

[sixwings]

I'll also throw this in - I blame RBG as much as anyone. She was a very smart person and should have known that rolling the dice and not retiring during the Obama administration as a frail 70-something cancer survivor was a pretty stupid idea. But I assume power and prestige and ego are hard to set aside, and now we see the results.

-W

100%. If it was 5 conservative 4 liberal, Roberts would probably vote to uphold roe, even just to maintain respectability of the supreme court. No chance now,  RBG ruined her own legacy and dems are seeing the same happen with Breyer. It's going to end up being a 7-2 conservative court because the left wing refuses to retire when they can be replaced.

But the supreme court lifetime appointment is stupid, and the supreme court seems to have more power now than in the past because lawmakers seem to suck at writing good laws and government is at a total stalemate. So all they do is pass shit laws and wait for the court to interpret it. This was McConnels game all along, force congress to pass shit laws and wait for the supreme court to interpret it while stacking it with a bunch of 40 year old heritage foundation conservatives. Meanwhile Biden and Schumer keep talking about compromise and reaching across the isle. Fuck em. 

There doesn't really seem to be a way out of this. Time for the west coast and north east to seperate and join Canada and the form the new global superpower.