Contingency planning for a Trump presidency

[RosieTR]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

This article is long, but has some disturbing aspects regarding a possible Trump presidency. One of the main points is for the mainstream not to be too complacent since that may well result in the scary spectre of a Trump presidency.

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all. I certainly have disagreed with other presidents and other politicians and that is its own long debate. But if the assessment is correct, that he does not actually have any kind of conscience at all, it frames the prediction of what he would do in a very different way from any of the recent presidents IMO. True, complete, sociopaths do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people, and to some degree they sometimes do not care what happens to themselves. They want things to be interesting, because otherwise they are bored. They care about power, because they find it fun to jerk people around. But when they get bored, they're done. They don't particularly care to continue. Sometimes they are sadistic (serial killers) but at heart, it just depends on what kind of game they decide they want to play, and can play based on their circumstances. This is what I think Trump is doing. He got a little bored with reality TV show, which he took up when he got a little bored of running companies (into bankruptcy), etc so why not try the presidency. Like the opposite of an autistic person, sociopaths can read emotions extremely well, and learn very well how to manipulate others, but they don't feel normal emotions. So, life is one big game and getting thrills from doing shocking things is how they play.

The founding fathers of the US did put in some checks and balances, but to the extent that those can be stretched or ignored, I think Trump would do it. I think he would do what he could to muck around with the Treasury, just cause why not? Print money! Start wars! It's exciting!

I am wondering if any other US citizens have considered this. Are you moving funds or planning on moving funds into a greater international exposure? Buying a bit of gold? Having some other currency on hand, just in case?

Those of us who have spent our whole lives in the West don't necessarily believe how fast politics can change, but if faced with a game-changer ("extinction-level event" in the article) would you recognize the early warning signs? I keep thinking-how did those few Germans know to leave in 1929, 1930? And some stayed, because they kept believing it couldn't happen until it was. OTOH, some stuff does blow over. It's tough to know whether to be alarmist or not.

Anyway, just curious for your thoughts.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Unfortunately the current President has done his best to ignore the checks and balances on his power, accelerating a trend that was already going the wrong way. So if Trump becomes President, I expect lots of Democrats to suddenly believe in separation of powers again, and many Republicans to say things like "If Congress won't act..."

I really don't think Clinton is worse or better in terms of respect for the rule of law, though. Neither if them has any.

That said, it seems like administrations are frequently run by White House staff and the Cabinet; there's simply too much for the President to do. So I don't think a Trump presidency will be as bad as it sounds. If he starts proposing detainment camps for Muslims I may need to take that back.

(Edited for typos)

[Metric Mouse]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

This article is long, but has some disturbing aspects regarding a possible Trump presidency. One of the main points is for the mainstream not to be too complacent since that may well result in the scary spectre of a Trump presidency.

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all. I certainly have disagreed with other presidents and other politicians and that is its own long debate. But if the assessment is correct, that he does not actually have any kind of conscience at all, it frames the prediction of what he would do in a very different way from any of the recent presidents IMO. True, complete, sociopaths do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people, and to some degree they sometimes do not care what happens to themselves. They want things to be interesting, because otherwise they are bored. They care about power, because they find it fun to jerk people around. But when they get bored, they're done. They don't particularly care to continue. Sometimes they are sadistic (serial killers) but at heart, it just depends on what kind of game they decide they want to play, and can play based on their circumstances. This is what I think Trump is doing. He got a little bored with reality TV show, which he took up when he got a little bored of running companies (into bankruptcy), etc so why not try the presidency. Like the opposite of an autistic person, sociopaths can read emotions extremely well, and learn very well how to manipulate others, but they don't feel normal emotions. So, life is one big game and getting thrills from doing shocking things is how they play.

The founding fathers of the US did put in some checks and balances, but to the extent that those can be stretched or ignored, I think Trump would do it. I think he would do what he could to muck around with the Treasury, just cause why not? Print money! Start wars! It's exciting!

I am wondering if any other US citizens have considered this. Are you moving funds or planning on moving funds into a greater international exposure? Buying a bit of gold? Having some other currency on hand, just in case?

Those of us who have spent our whole lives in the West don't necessarily believe how fast politics can change, but if faced with a game-changer ("extinction-level event" in the article) would you recognize the early warning signs? I keep thinking-how did those few Germans know to leave in 1929, 1930? And some stayed, because they kept believing it couldn't happen until it was. OTOH, some stuff does blow over. It's tough to know whether to be alarmist or not.

Anyway, just curious for your thoughts.

Shit... if only there was another group of people who could counteract the policies set out by a president. Kind of a way to check the power of that office, and balance out any off-the-rails actions or laws proposed by the Commander in Chief. That way, even if someone as scary as the current crop of presidential candidates were to be elected, the country wouldn't go all to hell.

Oh well. Since there's nothing like that around, guess everyone should buy guns now, cuz Hillary is going to outlaw them. Or stock up on gold cuz Trump is going to cause the collapse of the dollar. Or whatever.  I mean, neither of them could do much worse than the guy at the plate now.

[winkeyman]

I think all the doom and gloom over a potential Trump presidency is overblown. Do I like or trust him? No. But you would be a fool to trust any politician. What I do trust are his motivations. I believe Trump is greedy and self-aggrandizing. That seems to be his core. His core motivations are to make money and make people like him, or at least pay attention to him.

The best way for him to chase after these goals is to try to do a decent job at being President. With expectations so low, all he has to do to make people like him is to be a not-terrible leader. All he has to do to enrich himself and his family is to help grow the American economy, or to at least not destroy it.

These motivations are easy for me to understand and sympathize with. And while I do not like or trust the man, I can trust these motivations.

Obama on the other hand I do not trust. Nor do I trust his motivations. His motivation seems to be to tear shit down for ideological reasons. His goal doesn't seem to be to enrich himself, it seems to be to lash out at the "other" that he sees at his enemy, no matter what harm it does to the country or it's economy.

[solon]

Seriously, Rosie, there is nothing to worry about from Trump. The New Yorker is just trying to sell magazines.

[maizefolk]

I am wondering if any other US citizens have considered this. Are you moving funds or planning on moving funds into a greater international exposure? Buying a bit of gold? Having some other currency on hand, just in case?

I have a couple months living expenses in a Chinese bank account and maybe 3k RMB as cash here in the US. It has nothing to do with Trump, but I guess it functions as a sort of hedge? Although I'm not actually sure that it would help at all. In a long gradual slide, I could see other currencies being employed for day to day transactions in the USA, but in a sudden catastrophe, would the cashier at the grocery store even know what, say, a 100 euro note looked like (let alone currencies from countries fewer Americans visit)? I suppose you could use your foreign currency bank account to buy a ticket on a flight out of the country if nothing else.

[2Birds1Stone]

There's only one man who can make America great again!

These forums are packed with bernouts so I expect this thread to get locked up pretty quickly.

[swick]

There's only one man who can make America great again!

These forums are packed with bernouts so I expect this thread to get locked up pretty quickly.

And happens to be moderated by a couple of Canadians ;) If everyone can be respectful and follow the forum rules, we won't lock the thread. It just so happens that every political discussion seems to take intelligent, thoughtful people and reduce them to stubborn children shouting "I'm right, because I say so"

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

I think as far as contingency plans, it depends on how messed up you think everything will get, either from natural disaster, government mismanagement, whatever the latest conspiracy theory is. My thought is you be prepared as you can while living your life, and if we ever get to the point of full fiat currency collapse, losing your retirement fund is going to be the very least of your problems. Build a solid community around you, learn DIY skills that can keep you alive and that you can barter with. Have a bug-out kit and a plan just in case. Watch lots of old episodes of MacGyver for inspiration.

I've had some experience with sociopaths and do think Trump qualifies. Will be interesting to see how the elections shake out. 

[Metric Mouse]

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

That is very generous of you. I would be interested to see if they follow through with that plan following a Trump election.  I hope that everything works out for everyone, regardless of which party is elected.

[golden1]

Welp, my husband works for a Chinese company so we could always move to China if shit got REALLY bad.  I don't really think that would be a good alternative. 
'
The question of motivation is an interesting one, and one I think a lot about. 

What I do trust are his motivations. I believe Drumpf is greedy and self-aggrandizing. That seems to be his core. His core motivations are to make money and make people like him, or at least pay attention to him.

 

Drumpf could care less if people like him, he wants people to fear and respect him.  He the only motivation I have detected so far in Drumpf is a desire for power and status.  Being president would be the ultimate realization of those goals.  It is the ultimate negotiation.  His actions over the past thirty years have shown little interest in public service.  He enjoys being the heel because it disarms people and makes it easier for him to get what he wants.

Obama on the other hand I do not trust. Nor do I trust his motivations. His motivation seems to be to tear shit down for ideological reasons. His goal doesn't seem to be to enrich himself, it seems to be to lash out at the "other" that he sees at his enemy, no matter what harm it does to the country or it's economy.

Hmmm, his actions over his lifetime speak otherwise.  He has spent pretty much his entire life in public service.  He has a practical track record of trying to deal with Republicans or other people that are ideologically different than him.  He was well liked by Harvard Law Review conservatives, and deeply admires Reagan despite ideological differences.  Listen to his 2004 convention speech.   "There is no red America, or blue America, but the United States of America."  Like Drumpf, I also think he has a desire for power and status like Drumpf, and also has a high opinion of himself.  But underneath that, he has a real desire to help people, which I think Drumpf lacks for the most part.  He has tried many times to get things done through congress, but then ends up using presidential powers to his limit in order to be effective, since the Republicans decided before he was even elected to make sure nothing passes, no matter the merits.  I don't like that he felt compelled to expand his powers, but I don't see it as motivated by anything but a desire to push the agenda of the people who voted for him. 

[2Birds1Stone]

There's only one man who can make America great again!

These forums are packed with bernouts so I expect this thread to get locked up pretty quickly.

And happens to be moderated by a couple of Canadians ;) If everyone can be respectful and follow the forum rules, we won't lock the thread. It just so happens that every political discussion seems to take intelligent, thoughtful people and reduce them to stubborn children shouting "I'm right, because I say so"

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

I think as far as contingency plans, it depends on how messed up you think everything will get, either from natural disaster, government mismanagement, whatever the latest conspiracy theory is. My thought is you be prepared as you can while living your life, and if we ever get to the point of full fiat currency collapse, losing your retirement fund is going to be the very least of your problems. Build a solid community around you, learn DIY skills that can keep you alive and that you can barter with. Have a bug-out kit and a plan just in case. Watch lots of old episodes of MacGyver for inspiration.

I've had some experience with sociopaths and do think Trump qualifies. Will be interesting to see how the elections shake out.

Trump is definitely a sociopath. We are screwed no matter who wins this election :(

I am very thankful for my EU citizenship.

[Chris22]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win. 

[swick]

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

That is very generous of you. I would be interested to see if they follow through with that plan following a Trump election.  I hope that everything works out for everyone, regardless of which party is elected.

I'm curious too! We have a basement rental unit, and our friends could easily be location independent for work so we'll see how it goes.

We live fairly close to the border, and most of my clients are American, and I'm paid in USD, so we will feel the fallout from this election too.

I am curious about people's contingency plans, as mentioned in the topic subject. Is anyone actually making any preparations (finaincially, building skills, whatever), or is everyone taking a wait and see approach?

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

It's funny now to look up some of the mail she sent about Obama being a gun grabber in 2007, and now she's claiming she can effectively ban whby making it so stores and manufacturers are liable for what is done with their products.

[Roland of Gilead]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

[Gin1984]

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

That is very generous of you. I would be interested to see if they follow through with that plan following a Trump election.  I hope that everything works out for everyone, regardless of which party is elected.

I'm curious too! We have a basement rental unit, and our friends could easily be location independent for work so we'll see how it goes.

We live fairly close to the border, and most of my clients are American, and I'm paid in USD, so we will feel the fallout from this election too.

I am curious about people's contingency plans, as mentioned in the topic subject. Is anyone actually making any preparations (finaincially, building skills, whatever), or is everyone taking a wait and see approach?

DH and I are increasing our connections in Canada and letting people know that we are looking for jobs up there. 

[Jack]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Trump is a sociopath and Clinton is a sociopath.... Is it any wonder so many people support Sanders?

[Metric Mouse]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Trump is a sociopath and Clinton is a sociopath.... Is it any wonder so many people support Sanders?

It very much is starting to feel like that Simpson's episode "Mr. Kang goes to Washington."

[golden1]

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Politifact disagrees with you: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

But congratulations on getting suckered by 30 years of Republican smear tactics.  Don't worry, you aren't the only one. 

As far as her motivations go, like Obama, I think she does desire power greatly.  I also think she is in it to help people.  I actually think pretty much all of the Republican and Democratic candidates were power hungry (even Bernie to some extent) and are looking to help people - EXCEPT Drumpf.   He likes the thrill of the hunt. 

[ncornilsen]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Trump is a sociopath and Clinton is a sociopath.... Is it any wonder so many people support Sanders?

It's a wonder anyone supports him after seeing Venezuela, the inevitable conclusion of his ideology. Or after they do the math on his policies, and see they don't make sense. He basically is holding up a big middle finger to anyone with a calculator.

[Chris22]

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Politifact disagrees with you: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

But congratulations on getting suckered by 30 years of Republican smear tactics.  Don't worry, you aren't the only one. 

As far as her motivations go, like Obama, I think she does desire power greatly.  I also think she is in it to help people.  I actually think pretty much all of the Republican and Democratic candidates were power hungry (even Bernie to some extent) and are looking to help people - EXCEPT Drumpf.   He likes the thrill of the hunt.

http://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI

It's not just the lying, it's the lying AND the smearing of anyone who DARE call her on it.


Also, most of what your cited source is disputing is whether or not she's telling the truth on current things.  I'm talking about her very demonstrable habit of changing positions for political expediency (see my linked video) and then getting self-righteous and indignant when it's pointed out, instead of just owning it that her views evolved.  That's a special kind of dishonesty.

[tarheeldan]

It's a wonder anyone supports him after seeing Venezuela, the inevitable conclusion of his ideology. Or after they do the math on his policies, and see they don't make sense. He basically is holding up a big middle finger to anyone with a calculator.

142 of 349 forum members polled (40.7%) said they would be most likely to vote for Bernie Sanders. These folks are pretty good with calculators.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/2016-presidential-candidate/

[forummm]

If Trump wins, I'm staying here. He'll probably cause a lot of trouble. But I wouldn't be surprised if he was less disastrous than W was. I think Trump will be better than Clinton on some things. But it's almost impossible to know what he'll end up doing. He doesn't even know yet. Other than talk about how great he is.

It's a wonder anyone supports him after seeing Venezuela, the inevitable conclusion of his ideology. Or after they do the math on his policies, and see they don't make sense. He basically is holding up a big middle finger to anyone with a calculator.

142 of 349 forum members polled (40.7%) said they would be most likely to vote for Bernie Sanders. These folks are pretty good with calculators.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/2016-presidential-candidate/

Europe is a better comparison than Venezuela. And Europe is a fantastic place to live. Bernie would be moderate or conservative in Europe, depending on the issue.

[dougules]

Does nobody else think Trump's bluster is pure grade-A New York sarcasm?   The American public is falling for it hook, line, and sinker.  Do you realize the historical significance of southerners fervently supporting a New Yorker for president?

I don't really know what a Trump presidency would look like, but I don't think his ramblings give us any clue.   I mean you need to completely ignore what all politicians say in their rhetoric, but that's 3 times as true with Trump. 

What's most disturbing about Trump's campaign isn't Trump, it's the people that completely get behind his craziest rantings. 

[winkeyman]

Does nobody else think Trump's bluster is pure grade-A New York sarcasm?   The American public is falling for it hook, line, and sinker.  Do you realize the historical significance of southerners fervently supporting a New Yorker for president?

I don't really know what a Trump presidency would look like, but I don't think his ramblings give us any clue.   I mean you need to completely ignore what all politicians say in their rhetoric, but that's 3 times as true with Trump. 

What's most disturbing about Trump's campaign isn't Trump, it's the people that completely get behind his craziest rantings.

What are these "craziest rantings?" I mean, he surely says some outlandish things. But the core of what he says is not crazy or outlandish, and many/most Americans agree with him.

WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL AND MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT! Ok, not gonna happen, but we DO need to secure our border.

WE NEED TO MAKE OUR ALLIES PAY FOR THEIR OWN DEFENSE! Ok, yeah, that makes sense.

CHINA! WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT CHINA! WE NEED TO WIN! Well, yeah, we have been losing a lot of jobs to China.

I disagree with almost everything Trump says for ideological reasons. On a practical level, I think some of his ideas could work, some won't. But when you strip away his obvious hyperbole and exaggerations (used for rhetorical effect, and it works) the stuff he says isn't really that crazy.

[The Happy Philosopher]

1. Most, if not all politicians are sociopaths.

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/21/morality-compassion-and-the-sociopath/

2. Trump is using techniques of persuasion. He will swing moderate big time as we get closer to the general election. Interestingly I think he is much more like Bernie than Hillary is. I'm not even sure he is a republican. It's a fascinating theater of sociology, politics, persuasion and psychology going on and I'm having a blast just watching...haven't been this interested in politics for a while.

Scott Adams blog is a must read for those interested in the persuasion angle.

http://blog.dilbert.com/

[Kris]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

No, and neither can you. You are assuming that, but you really have no idea.

That's one hell of a gamble, in my opinion.

[Metric Mouse]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

No, and neither can you. You are assuming that, but you really have no idea.

That's one hell of a gamble, in my opinion.

Even if his outlandish claims are his actual goals, don't you see congress working against him the same way they did President Obama, and to similar effect?

[forummm]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

No, and neither can you. You are assuming that, but you really have no idea.

That's one hell of a gamble, in my opinion.

Even if his outlandish claims are his actual goals, don't you see congress working against him the same way they did President Obama, and to similar effect?

I don't. If it's a Republican Congress, I think they will mostly work together with Trump. And he will work with them. The opposition to Obama was strictly politics. Even when they agreed with him 98% they would refuse to go along to give him a win, or because they wanted the extra 2% (quote from Boehner about getting 98% of what they wanted on the Grand Bargain--but he couldn't get the TPers to go for it without getting everything they wanted). McConnell said the obstruction was intentional, and to make Obama a one-term president.

If it's a Democratic Congress, they will fight on some things, and make a show of that, but largely cave in. They don't have the party discipline and ideology to be as effectively obstructive as the GOP has been. And their donors also want them to generally do the same things that the GOP donors want them to do. So they often side with their donors while paying lip service to their base.

[Curbside Prophet]

There's only one man who can make America great again!

These forums are packed with bernouts so I expect this thread to get locked up pretty quickly.

And happens to be moderated by a couple of Canadians ;) If everyone can be respectful and follow the forum rules, we won't lock the thread. It just so happens that every political discussion seems to take intelligent, thoughtful people and reduce them to stubborn children shouting "I'm right, because I say so"

That being said, I know my house happens to be the contingency plan and destination for some of my much-loved American friends should Trump win.

I think as far as contingency plans, it depends on how messed up you think everything will get, either from natural disaster, government mismanagement, whatever the latest conspiracy theory is. My thought is you be prepared as you can while living your life, and if we ever get to the point of full fiat currency collapse, losing your retirement fund is going to be the very least of your problems. Build a solid community around you, learn DIY skills that can keep you alive and that you can barter with. Have a bug-out kit and a plan just in case. Watch lots of old episodes of MacGyver for inspiration.

I've had some experience with sociopaths and do think Trump qualifies. Will be interesting to see how the elections shake out.

Trump is definitely a sociopath. We are screwed no matter who wins this election :(

I am very thankful for my EU citizenship.

Lol, as if the EU is in any better shape.  Socialist parties gaining traction, Brexit, major immigration problem, sovereign default risk... sounds splendid.

[Kris]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

No, and neither can you. You are assuming that, but you really have no idea.

That's one hell of a gamble, in my opinion.

Even if his outlandish claims are his actual goals, don't you see congress working against him the same way they did President Obama, and to similar effect?

Yes, to an extent. But that's not what I was responding to, as you can see.

Plus, frankly, the Republicans have become such victims of their own outlandishness that I worry many of them are constitutionally unable to vote for moderacy, for fear they will alienate the teabillies.

I believe Trump will be guided solely on his own ego and need to have people adore him unquestioningly. Which makes me fear his narcissism will drive him to outlandish reality-TV acts as president. Perhaps these acts will be moderated domestically in Congress. But remember, he will now be the face of a crumbling Republican party that will have almost no will to oppose him because he's all they've got. And in terms of international politics... Oh, brother.  I mean, the guy is currently alienating Great Britain.  GREAT. BRITAIN. What a freaking nightmare he is going to be in that arena.  His special brand of ignorance and hubris will make us less safe than we are right now. I think one would have to be a fool to think otherwise.

[Northwestie]

Up to now GW was atop my list of dumbest president - god that guy was a dolt.  But now with Trump?  I think he's smarter, but that is not saying much, but he's a figgin' ego-maniac and general uber-narcissist. 

But my bet is that the US isn't that dumb, yet, anyway,  and he'll go down in flames.

[iris lily]

I think all the doom and gloom over a potential Trump presidency is overblown. Do I like or trust him? No. But you would be a fool to trust any politician. What I do trust are his motivations. I believe Trump is greedy and self-aggrandizing. That seems to be his core. His core motivations are to make money and make people like him, or at least pay attention to him.

The best way for him to chase after these goals is to try to do a decent job at being President. With expectations so low, all he has to do to make people like him is to be a not-terrible leader. All he has to do to enrich himself and his family is to help grow the American economy, or to at least not destroy it.

These motivations are easy for me to understand and sympathize with. And while I do not like or trust the man, I can trust these motivations.

Obama on the other hand I do not trust. Nor do I trust his motivations. His motivation seems to be to tear shit down for ideological reasons. His goal doesn't seem to be to enrich himself, it seems to be to lash out at the "other" that he sees at his enemy, no matter what harm it does to the country or it's economy.

Ths is strangely comforting.

[forummm]

Lol, as if the EU is in any better shape.  Socialist parties gaining traction, Brexit, major immigration problem, sovereign default risk... sounds splendid.

What's with all the Europe bashing around here lately? Europe is a fantastic place to live. Literally billions of people around the world would be thrilled to get to move their families to Europe. No place composed of people is perfect. But things are generally pretty great there.

[Curbside Prophet]

Lol, as if the EU is in any better shape.  Socialist parties gaining traction, Brexit, major immigration problem, sovereign default risk... sounds splendid.

What's with all the Europe bashing around here lately? Europe is a fantastic place to live. Literally billions of people around the world would be thrilled to get to move their families to Europe. No place composed of people is perfect. But things are generally pretty great there.

Not bashing, just pointing out the facts.  If you think the EU is a better place to live, then best of luck to you.

[RosieTR]

Trump is going to be much more moderate than he has been in the campaign.   Can't you see that 99% of what he does is an act?

He figured out that 99% of Americans are dumb as a sack of rocks, then he figured out how to get 51% of them to support him.

Edit: Also, don't believe 80% of what you read on the internet.

Yes, to an extent. But that's not what I was responding to, as you can see.

Plus, frankly, the Republicans have become such victims of their own outlandishness that I worry many of them are constitutionally unable to vote for moderacy, for fear they will alienate the teabillies.

I believe Trump will be guided solely on his own ego and need to have people adore him unquestioningly. Which makes me fear his narcissism will drive him to outlandish reality-TV acts as president. Perhaps these acts will be moderated domestically in Congress. But remember, he will now be the face of a crumbling Republican party that will have almost no will to oppose him because he's all they've got. And in terms of international politics... Oh, brother.  I mean, the guy is currently alienating Great Britain.  GREAT. BRITAIN. What a freaking nightmare he is going to be in that arena.  His special brand of ignorance and hubris will make us less safe than we are right now. I think one would have to be a fool to think otherwise.

Yes, it's the outlandish reality-TV acts that I'm mostly worried about. Any politician thinks highly of him/herself, says bullshit to get elected, panders to the base during the primaries and then becomes more moderate during the mainstream campaign. That in itself is a sign of how screwy the American electoral system is, especially 2 party-system. But it's the doing random crap that scares me, not due to greed, or an attempt to gain or retain power, or provide some sort of "legacy" which is what most of the past presidents have done. Being all big-man at ISIS is understandable. Being all big-man at Great Britian? WTF. It's the difference between appointing an experienced lawyer/judge whose views you may disagree with to the Supreme Court, versus appointing Hulk Hogan. Like a real-life version of Idiocracy, except the president less stupid and more DGAF.

[nobodyspecial]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Although to be fair that describes pretty much everyone that has ever entered the oval office.

Except for the female bit, although we never saw what FDR was wearing under that blanket

[DeltaBond]

I think all the doom and gloom over a potential Trump presidency is overblown.

I second this.  There have been a few presidents in the past that terrified me, but overall, the hype was just hype.  The news articles about any of it, for or against, are all overblown right now, as they always are before an election.  Be careful which articles you believe and which ones you allow to affect you.

[winkeyman]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Although to be fair that describes pretty much everyone that has ever entered the oval office.

Except for the female bit, although we never saw what FDR was wearing under that blanket

This is really the strangest part to me. I guess I am very cynical and surround myself with other cynics. I just cant imagine thinking "Wow, that Trump is a crazy sociopath! Downright terrifying! But man, that Hillary/Bernie/Whoever really seems like a nice person. I trust them to do the right thing!"

I mean... really?

[ender]

I think all the doom and gloom over a potential Trump presidency is overblown.

I second this.  There have been a few presidents in the past that terrified me, but overall, the hype was just hype.  The news articles about any of it, for or against, are all overblown right now, as they always are before an election.  Be careful which articles you believe and which ones you allow to affect you.

Relatively few presidential candidates in recent years have run their platform based nearly exclusively on disrespectfully mocking everyone and inciting racism/cultural bigotism in order to gain popularity. Relatively rare to see them blatantly promote violence against those who disagree or endorsing destroying religious freedoms (Muslims), too.

What blows my mind is how few people seem to care about the extent of Trump's campaign being rooted in him being a @#%#@ to everyone, promoting violence against those who disagree with him, racism towards everyone, and anti-Muslim sentiment.

[alsoknownasDean]

What blows my mind is the cult of personality he's built, and the levels of adulation some people seem to have for him. It's as though they'd do anything he says.

It'll be interesting to see the reaction once he fails to live up to their expectations.

[davisgang90]

I think all the doom and gloom over a potential Trump presidency is overblown.

I second this.  There have been a few presidents in the past that terrified me, but overall, the hype was just hype.  The news articles about any of it, for or against, are all overblown right now, as they always are before an election.  Be careful which articles you believe and which ones you allow to affect you.

Relatively few presidential candidates in recent years have run their platform based nearly exclusively on disrespectfully mocking everyone and inciting racism/cultural bigotism in order to gain popularity. Relatively rare to see them blatantly promote violence against those who disagree or endorsing destroying religious freedoms (Muslims), too.

What blows my mind is how few people seem to care about the extent of Trump's campaign being rooted in him being a @#%#@ to everyone, promoting violence against those who disagree with him, racism towards everyone, and anti-Muslim sentiment.

I find it interesting that all the talk is of Trump promoting violence, but the only violence we've seen to date is by the anti-Trump protesters....

[ncornilsen]

What blows my mind is the cult of personality he's built, and the levels of adulation some people seem to have for him. It's as though they'd do anything he says.

It'll be interesting to see the reaction once he fails to live up to their expectations.

If it's anything like what happened  Obama's cult of personality, there will be rationalizations a plenty and nary a one will recognize or admit that they recognize that they'd been duped.

[Roland of Gilead]

What blows my mind is the cult of personality he's built, and the levels of adulation some people seem to have for him. It's as though they'd do anything he says.

It'll be interesting to see the reaction once he fails to live up to their expectations.

But that was similar to Obama.  He failed to live up to some people's expectations and the reaction is mostly meh.

I think we are getting all hyped up for little reason.   This seems like the year 2000 software bug, EOTW but then it didn't play out like that and the next day was the same as the previous.

What is the worst that can happen?   Nuclear war?

[Kris]

My personal opinion of Trump is that he is a flat-out sociopath. By this I mean, he really honestly, does not care about morals, at all....do not have a conscience. They do not care what happens to other people

Interesting, because I have the exact same perception of Hillary.  No care about the law, morals, or anything except her own ascent to power and place in history as the first female POTUS.  She will say or do anything to anyone to secure it, and then say or do the complete opposite to someone else in the next breath if she thinks it will help her win.

Although to be fair that describes pretty much everyone that has ever entered the oval office.

Except for the female bit, although we never saw what FDR was wearing under that blanket

This is really the strangest part to me. I guess I am very cynical and surround myself with other cynics. I just cant imagine thinking "Wow, that Trump is a crazy sociopath! Downright terrifying! But man, that Hillary/Bernie/Whoever really seems like a nice person. I trust them to do the right thing!"

I mean... really?

Here's my take:

Trump: has seriously no fucking idea what he is doing.  And doesn't care.  Dangerously overconfident, and narcissistic tendencies mean that he probably won't listen to anyone with actual experience.

Clinton: Do not necessarily trust her, but she has far more experience, and a proven track record.  Clearly the most qualified, whatever one's personal opinion might be. 

Bernie: Heart is in the right place, but I question his ability to do any of the things he says he wants to.  Lots of experience in one particular realm.  A bit of a one-trick pony in that all I hear from him is "political revolution," but not a ton of detail as to how he would accomplish any of these goals.  Seems pretty hazy in terms of foreign policy.

[ender]

]I find it interesting that all the talk is of Trump promoting violence, but the only violence we've seen to date is by the anti-Trump protesters....

Oh, so him endorsing violence against protestors is not actually a problem unless it happens? Him saying he would cover their legal fees for assaulting protestors in those situations is not a problem unless it happens?

The problem is Trump himself. You can't change his attitude by saying "it hasn't really happened" -- he still thinks, says, and endorses that approach.

[nobodyspecial]

Relatively few presidential candidates in recent years have run their platform based nearly exclusively on disrespectfully mocking everyone and inciting racism/cultural bigotism in order to gain popularity. Relatively rare to see them blatantly promote violence against those who disagree or endorsing destroying religious freedoms (Muslims), too.

But there have been a few presidents/prime ministers who were carefully on-message during the campaign, promoted a new caring policy, and then bombed the ***** out of the middle east as soon  as they were elected.
There might be a net reduction in dead muslims by an isolationist racist

[davisgang90]

]I find it interesting that all the talk is of Trump promoting violence, but the only violence we've seen to date is by the anti-Trump protesters....

Oh, so him endorsing violence against protestors is not actually a problem unless it happens? Him saying he would cover their legal fees for assaulting protestors in those situations is not a problem unless it happens?

The problem is Trump himself. You can't change his attitude by saying "it hasn't really happened" -- he still thinks, says, and endorses that approach.

Oh, so actual violence is not actually a problem?

[golden1]

I find it interesting that all the talk is of Drumpf promoting violence, but the only violence we've seen to date is by the anti-Drumpf protesters....

This is so blatantly untrue I don't even know where to start. 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/mar/10/donald-trump-rally-black-man-sucker-punch-north-carolina-video

[davisgang90]

I'm no fan of Trump, but the simple fact is that the violence is on the anti-Trump side.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gays-for-trump-crowd-gathers-at-costa-mesa-rally-20160428-story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/21/police-officer-trump-protesters-were-the-most-hateful-evil-people-ive-ever-seen/

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/04/28/anti-trump-protesters-tangle-with-drivers-police-in-costa-mesa/