Car Folks: your input requested

[ysette9]

My husband doesn't care too much about cars whereas I have Opinions. He wants to replace his 2005 RAV4 and thinks we need a larger family vehicle. I happen to think that my 4-door GTI is the perfect car for me and us, and him waxing poetic about more trunk space and trips to the mountains fall on deaf ears. :)

In any case, he is asking for my input on his replacement vehicle and I am curious if you can help me with some suggestions to meet the following criteria.

• Not too big - I think a GTI/Golf is the perfect size, but it needs to be bigger than that
• Preference for lower to the ground (crossover instead of SUV)
• Seats 5 plus trunk space
• Hatchback
• Great handling, meaning firm suspension and little sway or lean in corners
• AWD is a nice-to-have but not mandatory

Thanks in advance!

***
Edit: The Infiniti EX35 seems to fit the bill, based solely upon my internet searching. Anything similar? Any opinions on this car?

***
Edit part deux: I need to clarify that the size of the current RAV4 is probably fine, just the vehicle itself isn't up to par.

[six-car-habit]

 A few years old Audi S5 would tick off nearly all the boxes except hatchback.  Fast , sporty , AWD, well built, well appointted car. A guy I see once a year has one, and i'm always impressed at how nice the interior + paint is, and how the body style is touch aggressive.

 I own a 4 door Gti like you, but even with nice Blizzak snow/ ice tires , it will not get up the driveway in snow [ too steep / narrow / treacherous drop if you get it wrong or stall. ]    So I drive a "winterbeater" older Explorer in the winter -Late Nov thru Mid March.  I get antsy to be back in the smaller, nimbler, quicker, more gas efficient, GTi usually by mid January....

[joe189man]

a mazda cx-5 might fit your needs, my wife had one before we got a minivan for her. seating for 5, AWD, trunk space, more of a cross over, and it has the mazda zoom zoom driving dynamics. i have a 2010 mazda 3 hatch and love it, had it since new, i drove it to go skiing more times than i can remember, i just put snow tires on it, fits 5 just not a larger/taller 5. my model fits 8 ft lumber. i think the newer mazda 3's have an AWD model

[Paper Chaser]

Kia Stinger was my first thought. It will outhandle almost any CUV, and the "liftback" style provides a lot of cargo versatility for a sedan. They're available with AWD, and seat 5 comfortably. Kia has a strong warranty, and they make really good value in the used market thanks to some aggressive depreciation

[Paper Chaser]

The Accord Crosstour from Honda might be an oddball option too, but they didn't sell very well so your options may be limited and there would be no factory warranty at this point.

[Paper Chaser]

If you want to stick within the Toyota family, the first generation Venza might be a good option too. It's a little bit longer and wider than the Rav 4 (more interior space), but sits lower and should handle better. You can basically think of it as a high riding, Camry wagon with available AWD.

[nereo]

Maybe this is too obvious and you’ve rejected it for another reason, but adding a roof rack and roof box (or hitch and tailgate. Box) can give you a huge amount of additional cargo space when you actually need it, and still let you drive a Golf around. Bonus - you can carry 12’ lumber safely too...

The Thule roof box gives you 10+ cubic feet. Their trailer-box is over 13....

Would that satisfy your spouse’s desire for “more cargo space” since he “doesn’t care too much. about cars” and let you get the car you want?

[jehovasfitness23]

my vote would be new Rav4 hybrid or the PHEV.  Team husband

[norajean]

Lots of cargo space and handling don’t often go together. Almost any Subaru would do the trick.

[Just Joe]

A wagon instead of a hatchback?

[ericrugiero]

Subaru Outback?  My in-laws have one and they really like it. 

Mazda CX-5 would be worth looking at.  I've never driven one but have read good things about them. 

[joe189man]

Mazda CX-5 would be worth looking at.  I've never driven one but have read good things about them.

ours was awesome, and i would get one for me, but there are lots of good recommendations on this list

[Greystache]

Subaru Outback or Forester  check all of your boxes.

[ysette9]

Maybe this is too obvious and you’ve rejected it for another reason, but adding a roof rack and roof box (or hitch and tailgate. Box) can give you a huge amount of additional cargo space when you actually need it, and still let you drive a Golf around. Bonus - you can carry 12’ lumber safely too...

The Thule roof box gives you 10+ cubic feet. Their trailer-box is over 13....

Would that satisfy your spouse’s desire for “more cargo space” since he “doesn’t care too much. about cars” and let you get the car you want?

Yes, I've brought this up as an option also. "Sigh. You would have to put the roof rack on before the storage box can go on and that isn't necessarily simple."  ;-)
Maybe it isn't simple but I am sure I can find someone who will do it for me in exchange for $$, which I have plenty of at this point. hah

We don't have a garage, which means that if I put a roof rack and a storage bucket on the top of my GTI then it is staying there for the foreseeable future. Are there any downsides to that?

[ysette9]

Lots of cargo space and handling don’t often go together. Almost any Subaru would do the trick.

Are Subarus fun to drive? I've only ever test driven an Impreza years ago and it had too much body lean for my tastes.

[ysette9]

A wagon instead of a hatchback?

Yes, that is a good idea. I've seen some old BMW wagons that I thought might not be too terrible to drive. My husband is against the idea of European luxury, and most luxury in general due to higher repair costs. I really want something that is more fun to drive than your average Toyota (I've owned a RAV4, and while it was good in the snow, everything else about it was a snooze.). Honestly I think we drive so very little at this point, and I would still use my GTI as my main vehicle for hauling kids on normal days, that things like gas mileage and repair costs won't be as big of a factor as back when we commuted to work. I'm mean, seriously, his car has had to be jumped half a dozen times in the past year because he drives it so infrequently.

I really think there is just an itch he has where he wants a nicer car because he wants a nicer car. I can't fault that considering how we've blown past our FI goal in the last year.

[ysette9]

If you want to stick within the Toyota family, the first generation Venza might be a good option too. It's a little bit longer and wider than the Rav 4 (more interior space), but sits lower and should handle better. You can basically think of it as a high riding, Camry wagon with available AWD.

Have you driven one of these? I've driven a couple of Camrys and they are like steering jello, or a boat on the high seas. Drives me nuts. (har har)

[ysette9]

Kia Stinger was my first thought. It will outhandle almost any CUV, and the "liftback" style provides a lot of cargo versatility for a sedan. They're available with AWD, and seat 5 comfortably. Kia has a strong warranty, and they make really good value in the used market thanks to some aggressive depreciation

Thanks for the recommendation. Kia isn't a brand that is even on my radar, so good to look outside the box, so to speak.

[Glenstache]

Sporty
Spacious
Frugal

Choose two of the above and you can find a match in the cars listed above. My experience is that most of the sporty crossovers (BMW X1, Audi, etc) have a larger cost of ownership due to higher maintenance costs. Subarus are not as fun to drive, but hold their value better because they are reliable and cheap to maintain. The plug in Rav4 (aka, Rav4 prime) is an interesting option as it is the second fastest acceleration of the entire toyota fleet (supra is slightly faster), but probably won't feel sporty as soon as you get to anything twisty.

I personally think that the electric car market is going to grow considerably in the next 5 years (and definitely 10). Any car purchase made now may want to factor that in. EVs have a lot more torque available, so have the potential to add sport in vehicle sectors that just didn't have that before. Even the modest Nissan Leaf is often reported to wear out tires pretty fast because of the torque it can deliver from a dead stop.

[scantee]

I have a Volvo V60 and it checks all of your boxes. It’s been a fantastic car for the three years I’ve had it. I bought it gently used with 12k miles and and at reasonable price. The V90 is a bit larger and very nice but not at all a reasonable car for me due to the price. That said, if money were no object I would absolutely go with the V90.

[nereo]

We don't have a garage, which means that if I put a roof rack and a storage bucket on the top of my GTI then it is staying there for the foreseeable future. Are there any downsides to that?

You take a minor hit with fuel efficiency and you cant get into parking garages with very low clearance (like ones that can’t fit full sized suvs) but that’s about it. Heck, my college roommate left his on year round (ski bum).

[Papa bear]

Minivan.  Tons of cargo room. Handles up to 7 people.  Flexible with seats up and down. Low to the ground.  30mpg highway.   


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[Morning Glory]

Lots of cargo space and handling don’t often go together. Almost any Subaru would do the trick.

Are Subarus fun to drive? I've only ever test driven an Impreza years ago and it had too much body lean for my tastes.

Seconding the Subaru outback. You can get a stick shift. I have a friend who races them. Plus enough room to take the family to the mountains. A bit spendy for me because they just don't lose value. Forester is a bit cheaper and comes in a stick shift too.

Budget option would be the Hyundai Santa Fe. Similar to the Forester but depreciates faster so you can get a five year old one cheap. I am looking at those plus the Honda CR-V or the toyota rav4.

We currently have an old police Crown Victoria for our family car. It is cheap, fun , and big. My husband is 6'6 and we have 2 kids and a dog, plus gear. Still has the spot light too. Downside is poor fuel economy and excessive road noise. It also has over 200k miles and leaks oil, so we are looking to replace. It's really fun when people slow way down because they think you're the fuzz.

[RWD]

My husband doesn't care too much about cars whereas I have Opinions. He wants to replace his 2005 RAV4 and thinks we need a larger family vehicle. I happen to think that my 4-door GTI is the perfect car for me and us, and him waxing poetic about more trunk space and trips to the mountains fall on deaf ears. :)

In any case, he is asking for my input on his replacement vehicle and I am curious if you can help me with some suggestions to meet the following criteria.

• Not too big - I think a GTI/Golf is the perfect size, but it needs to be bigger than that
• Preference for lower to the ground (crossover instead of SUV)
• Seats 5 plus trunk space
• Hatchback
• Great handling, meaning firm suspension and little sway or lean in corners
• AWD is a nice-to-have but not mandatory

Thanks in advance!

***
Edit: The Infiniti EX35 seems to fit the bill, based solely upon my internet searching. Anything similar? Any opinions on this car?

If you like the Golf/GTI but need just a bit more space what about the Golf Alltrack? Same wheelbase and basic platform but the back extends an extra foot for more cargo space. Trunk space is slightly more than a 2005 RAV4. Alternatively you can ditch the AWD for more fuel economy by choosing the Golf SportWagen (same body as the Alltrack, just a little lower to the ground and not AWD).

If you go with any of the CUVs I think you'll be quite disappointed by the handling. I test drove a 2017+ Mazda CX-5 which was supposed to be one of the best CUVs for handling this side of a Porsche Macan. Handling was still rather mediocre and my wife said she was feeling a bit sick riding in it just on our short mildly spirited test-drive. We ended up buying a 2016 Golf R instead. I have also test driven a Porsche Macan and it has acceptable handling, but still not as good as the Golf.

[Paper Chaser]

If you want to stick within the Toyota family, the first generation Venza might be a good option too. It's a little bit longer and wider than the Rav 4 (more interior space), but sits lower and should handle better. You can basically think of it as a high riding, Camry wagon with available AWD.

Have you driven one of these? I've driven a couple of Camrys and they are like steering jello, or a boat on the high seas. Drives me nuts. (har har)

My experience with the Venza has been limited to a couple of brief occasions on some pretty boring roads, so probably not a good litmus test for handling/performance. That being said, they're not known to be corner carvers with tons of driver engagement. I'd imagine the steering would be nearly identical to a similar year Camry as they share a lot of parts and have very similar dimensions. They're definitely more toward the "practical appliance" end of the spectrum compared to some of the other suggestions, but sometimes that's what people want in threads like these.

You could always go non-mustachian and look for a performance CUV. They'll get abysmal fuel economy, but if you're not putting many miles on them that may not be a huge deal financially. Domestic offerings will be cheaper upfront and cheaper to maintain than stuff from Europe which might alleviate your DH's concerns about maintenance costs. An older, cheaper option might be something like a Saab 9-7x. They're based on the common GM Trailblazer platform, so mechanical parts should be cheap and easy to find but the Saab will have some more luxury and a tad more prestige than it's platform cousins. The Aero trim level is mechanically identical to the Trailblazer SS and came with an LS2, big brakes and performance suspension. Downside is that they're old now, and Saab specific parts may be hard to find. A newer option in the same vein might be a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT. You won't earn any brownie points from MMM or environmentalists but they're rowdy, a bit more lux than a 15 year old Rav 4, and can fit a lot of stuff inside.

[KarefulKactus15]

I didn't see a price point so it's hard to say.   I have a 2007 rav4 and nothing short of a mini van / full size suv will beat it in cargo capacity.   But I hate driving it. Like someone else said it's about as fun as driving Jello.

I go around these forums shamelessly suggesting certain Infiniti models.  Not because they are more reliable than lexus / acura , but because I think Infiniti represents the superior value in the sport "luxury" category  all things considered.

Their most popular vehicles are all very similar as they are built on the "FM" platform.

This includes:
G
EX
FX

This does not include the Jx / Qx60 which is a minivan in disguise with front wheel drive.

I've had both the G and the FX and had 0 issues.  The 3.5 (and 3.7) are well proven engines. As for transmission , do an internet search for infiniti tranny problems.  For the above models I couldn't find anything for major failure.


There's my shameless post for infiniti.

There are alot of other good options mentioned in this thread but since I've owned 2 of the sister models to the Ex35 you mentioned I wanted to share my experience.

[Dicey]

I love my Venza! It was discontinued a few years back, but they've just reintroduced a hybrid version. I am jonesing hard for one. I'm telling myself I can look for a lease turn-in in a couple of years, the same way we got our 2014. It's a V6, so it's pretty zippy, but the gas mileage is so-so. Owning a hybrid would be nice. I looked at them (when the Toyota dealership was closed), and the body style is quite similar to the old ones. The height makes it a lot more comfortable to get in and out of, and the hatchback is great.

I downsized from a Dodge Grand Caravan that had been my work vehicle. I loved that beast, but DH said it was time to let it go. We compromised on a Venza because we wanted a cruiser car for SoCal road trips and I frequently haul stuff. It's been a great choice. I've noticed that people tend to love and hang on to them.

In pre-pandemic days, my friend left her small Lexus sedan at our house while they were on a long trip. I drove it to pick them up, and I was struck by how much it felt like I was driving my Venza.

[ysette9]

I didn't see a price point so it's hard to say.   I have a 2007 rav4 and nothing short of a mini van / full size suv will beat it in cargo capacity.   But I hate driving it. Like someone else said it's about as fun as driving Jello.

I go around these forums shamelessly suggesting certain Infiniti models.  Not because they are more reliable than lexus / acura , but because I think Infiniti represents the superior value in the sport "luxury" category  all things considered.

Their most popular vehicles are all very similar as they are built on the "FM" platform.

This includes:
G
EX
FX

This does not include the Jx / Qx60 which is a minivan in disguise with front wheel drive.

I've had both the G and the FX and had 0 issues.  The 3.5 (and 3.7) are well proven engines. As for transmission , do an internet search for infiniti tranny problems.  For the above models I couldn't find anything for major failure.


There's my shameless post for infiniti.

There are alot of other good options mentioned in this thread but since I've owned 2 of the sister models to the Ex35 you mentioned I wanted to share my experience.

Back in a prior life my husband had a G35. He decided it wasn’t worth it but I absolutely loved that car. Driving it was a dream. Beautiful cornering and handling, nice acceleration, smooth six-speed manual, and I enjoyed the leather and sunroof and heated seats and all of that fluffy luxury stuff.

[ysette9]

Minivan.  Tons of cargo room. Handles up to 7 people.  Flexible with seats up and down. Low to the ground.  30mpg highway.   


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Sorry. That is a hard pass for me.

[Sandi_k]

I almost bought the prior version of the Venza, but wasn't fond of the ride - it was pretty harsh with the 20" standard wheels that came with the V6.

On the used market, I'd consider a V6, and swap out the wheels - something I wasn't willing to do new, in 2009. ;)

[TrMama]

Maybe this is too obvious and you’ve rejected it for another reason, but adding a roof rack and roof box (or hitch and tailgate. Box) can give you a huge amount of additional cargo space when you actually need it, and still let you drive a Golf around. Bonus - you can carry 12’ lumber safely too...

The Thule roof box gives you 10+ cubic feet. Their trailer-box is over 13....

Would that satisfy your spouse’s desire for “more cargo space” since he “doesn’t care too much. about cars” and let you get the car you want?

Yes, I've brought this up as an option also. "Sigh. You would have to put the roof rack on before the storage box can go on and that isn't necessarily simple."  ;-)
Maybe it isn't simple but I am sure I can find someone who will do it for me in exchange for $$, which I have plenty of at this point. hah

We don't have a garage, which means that if I put a roof rack and a storage bucket on the top of my GTI then it is staying there for the foreseeable future. Are there any downsides to that?

LOL. Getting a rack put on a car you already own is sure to be much simpler, and cheaper, than buying a whole new car. Car shopping is a gigantic PITA. Anyway, the downsides I see to keeping a rack/box on the car all the time are: decreased fuel economy (minimal), increased road noise, and potentially thieves thinking there's something worth stealing in the box and breaking it open. However, this may depend on your neighbourhood. We live on a busy street and don't leave anything in our cars b/c I don't want to deal with damage from thieves.

We have an Outback and I love it. It corners better than any other car I've owned, but my past cars were 94 Chevy S10 (insanely loose steering), Corolla and a shitty Mazda 5 so I'm probably just easy to please. I love that even the  basic Outback engine doesn't wimp out on mountain passes like the other cars did. It also gets better gas mileage than my DH's 4 door sedan (Lancer). However, all the CUVs and SUVs have absolutely enormous blind spots and shit rear visibility. The rounded shape makes you essentially blind to whatever's going on behind you. The crash mitigation tech somewhat mitigates this design flaw, but it  takes a lot of getting use to.

If your future trips include snow or unpaved roads, pay attention to how much clearance your new car has. You don't want the thing bottoming out because there isn't enough room between the underside and the ground.

[ericrugiero]

My in-law's Outback handles better than pretty much any SUV you will find but I'm sure it's a step back from the GTI you are used to.  It's a very nice vehicle though.  The GTI for a daily driver and an Outback for times when you need more storage, ground clearance or AWD is a good combo.  Another option is to rent a vehicle for the occasional times you need more storage capacity. 

A quick google search makes it look like a roof rack would be easy to add to a GTI.  https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen_2018_GTI/Base-Carrier-Bars--4-door/53175628/5G4071126.html

[ysette9]

I realize upon a second reading that my initial wording was poor when I posed my question. To clarify, I think the current RAV4 SIZE is probably good for the family, it is just that the particular car, well, doesn't work. As in it literally doesn't start (we've had to jump it a good half dozen times this past year and it got a new battery) as well as is just older and doesn't seem to tickle my husband's pickle anymore.

I'll price out adding a roof rack and storage box on the GTI since that might be a nice thing to have for our weekend day trips. Though honestly, I am not sold on the idea that we really need all that much room, especially once we aren't hauling around a jogging stroller in the trunk anymore. But hey, it is easier and cheaper than buying a new vehicle and maybe we will want to haul around more stuff on our hiking trips.

[RWD]

I realize upon a second reading that my initial wording was poor when I posed my question. To clarify, I think the current RAV4 SIZE is probably good for the family, it is just that the particular car, well, doesn't work. As in it literally doesn't start (we've had to jump it a good half dozen times this past year and it got a new battery) as well as is just older and doesn't seem to tickle my husband's pickle anymore.

The [Mk7] GTI is a longer and wider car than the 2005 RAV4. The RAV4 can only carry a bit more because it is taller.

I'll reiterate my Golf SportWagen (or Alltrack for AWD) suggestion. More cargo space and passenger room than the RAV4. More power, less weight, better center of gravity. Good fuel efficiency.

[Just Joe]

You may have a bad voltage regulator or diodes in the alternator. Also look for phantom drains - things that are drawing power when they shouldn't. ''

Last idea: solar panel for your dash. Will keep the battery topped off. You can hard wire it, run it to your cigarette/accessory port if that stays electrified when the key is off, or directly to your battery.

Was easy to modify a cigarette lighter so it stays electrified. In my car, I ran a new wire from an accessory connection on the fuse block to the back of the cigarette lighter. I was also a fused accessory connection on the fuse panel. A stereo installer shop can do this for you if you are not a DIY kind of person.

[nessness]

a mazda cx-5 might fit your needs, my wife had one before we got a minivan for her. seating for 5, AWD, trunk space, more of a cross over, and it has the mazda zoom zoom driving dynamics. i have a 2010 mazda 3 hatch and love it, had it since new, i drove it to go skiing more times than i can remember, i just put snow tires on it, fits 5 just not a larger/taller 5. my model fits 8 ft lumber. i think the newer mazda 3's have an AWD model

I love my CX-5! I bought it new in 2014 and it hasn't needed any work beyond routine maintenance. It handles much better than the comparable vehicles I test drove (e.g. Subaru Forester). I like the blind spot assistance feature too - maybe that's standard on lots of cars now but it wasn't when I bought mine.

OP didn't mention car seats so I assume that that's not a factor, but the only real downside I've found is that it's hard to fit a rear-facing car seat behind a taller adult, and it's almost nearly impossible to fit 3 car seats across.

[ysette9]

a mazda cx-5 might fit your needs, my wife had one before we got a minivan for her. seating for 5, AWD, trunk space, more of a cross over, and it has the mazda zoom zoom driving dynamics. i have a 2010 mazda 3 hatch and love it, had it since new, i drove it to go skiing more times than i can remember, i just put snow tires on it, fits 5 just not a larger/taller 5. my model fits 8 ft lumber. i think the newer mazda 3's have an AWD model

I love my CX-5! I bought it new in 2014 and it hasn't needed any work beyond routine maintenance. It handles much better than the comparable vehicles I test drove (e.g. Subaru Forester). I like the blind spot assistance feature too - maybe that's standard on lots of cars now but it wasn't when I bought mine.

OP didn't mention car seats so I assume that that's not a factor, but the only real downside I've found is that it's hard to fit a rear-facing car seat behind a taller adult, and it's almost nearly impossible to fit 3 car seats across.

Good point. I have one car seat and two booster seats. They all fit across the back seat of my GTI, so presumably they will fit in anything else as well.

[Loretta]

Well a Prius fits a couple of your needs.  A hatchback, low to the ground, can seat 5.  I can't think of anything that fits all your needs. 

[jeninco]

Well a Prius fits a couple of your needs.  A hatchback, low to the ground, can seat 5.  I can't think of anything that fits all your needs.

Yeah, but handling-wise ... we call ours "the dishwasher" -- looks like a car, feels like an appliance. Ours is a Prime, and it actually only seats 4, come to think of it.  I mean, it's the responsible thing to drive, but ... (Doesn't help that the "fun" car is a 2011 Audi A3 with a manual transmission. 6 speed turbo. Hooaah!)

[ysette9]

Well a Prius fits a couple of your needs.  A hatchback, low to the ground, can seat 5.  I can't think of anything that fits all your needs.

Yeah, but handling-wise ... we call ours "the dishwasher" -- looks like a car, feels like an appliance. Ours is a Prime, and it actually only seats 4, come to think of it.  I mean, it's the responsible thing to drive, but ... (Doesn't help that the "fun" car is a 2011 Audi A3 with a manual transmission. 6 speed turbo. Hooaah!)

My parents have had a series of Prii and I’ve been ... underwhelmed. The brake is too sensitive, the gas unresponsive... at least all the batteries mean it handles corners well, if you can get it up to a speed to matter. :) The style and size is good though. You can’t beat a hatchback for versatility.

So the A3 is something that had caught my eye a decade ago because I thought it checked a lot of boxes.
I test drove one, lane it was a 2005 or something like that. It was lovely inside, zoomed nicely in a straight line, but scared me with the body lean when I went around a corner. Is the 2011 blessed with a better suspension?

[2Birds1Stone]

Pure sex

[2Birds1Stone]

Woah, not sure how to make that smaller.

Audi RS6 Avant. I want one, it's not practical. I still want one. No.

[RWD]

Woah, not sure how to make that smaller.

Audi RS6 Avant. I want one, it's not practical. I still want one. No.

That is certainly the ultimate wagon.

[Dicey]

I don't really understand cars that look like Darth Vader Helmets, and/or have menacing grills. Toyota is especially guilty of this.

I almost bought the prior version of the Venza, but wasn't fond of the ride - it was pretty harsh with the 20" standard wheels that came with the V6.

On the used market, I'd consider a V6, and swap out the wheels - something I wasn't willing to do new, in 2009. ;)

We bought a used 2014. It's a V6, so it has the big wheels. The ride doesn't feel harsh at all. Maybe they made changes after 2009.

[TrMama]

I don't really understand cars that look like Darth Vader Helmets, and/or have menacing grills. Toyota is especially guilty of this.

I almost bought the prior version of the Venza, but wasn't fond of the ride - it was pretty harsh with the 20" standard wheels that came with the V6.

On the used market, I'd consider a V6, and swap out the wheels - something I wasn't willing to do new, in 2009. ;)

We bought a used 2014. It's a V6, so it has the big wheels. The ride doesn't feel harsh at all. Maybe they made changes after 2009.

Big wheels usually give a smoother ride because they're too big to roll into pits in the road and instead roll over them. Smaller wheels fall into small pot holes and pits and give a bumpier ride. The other thing that affects the ride is how stiff the suspension is. "Sporty" cars have stiffer suspension so you can "feel" the road if you want to drive more aggressively. Obviously, some people don't like that which is why you can also get cars with softer suspension.

[2Birds1Stone]

Often times bigger wheels will come with a lower profile tire to compensate for the circumference difference in the wheel well. When that happens certain types of road conditions can feel a lot harsher.

The stiffer suspension on sports cars is typically to prevent body roll and improve steering characteristics, on  trucks it's to stiffen up the shocks so that under full payload it doesn't bottom out. Some cars have "air suspension" which adjusts this stiffness based on the mode you select, newest technology uses a liquid in the shocks that contains magnetic particles which can be instantly stiffened using electricity.

[ysette9]

Pure sex

That is beautiful.

[2Birds1Stone]

@ysette9, this angle doesn't show just how big that car is. In person it looks very cool. I would be afraid driving around a $100k+ car though.

I'm jealous how many cool wagons are available in Europe!

[jeninco]

Well a Prius fits a couple of your needs.  A hatchback, low to the ground, can seat 5.  I can't think of anything that fits all your needs.

Yeah, but handling-wise ... we call ours "the dishwasher" -- looks like a car, feels like an appliance. Ours is a Prime, and it actually only seats 4, come to think of it.  I mean, it's the responsible thing to drive, but ... (Doesn't help that the "fun" car is a 2011 Audi A3 with a manual transmission. 6 speed turbo. Hooaah!)

My parents have had a series of Prii and I’ve been ... underwhelmed. The brake is too sensitive, the gas unresponsive... at least all the batteries mean it handles corners well, if you can get it up to a speed to matter. :) The style and size is good though. You can’t beat a hatchback for versatility.

So the A3 is something that had caught my eye a decade ago because I thought it checked a lot of boxes.
I test drove one, lane it was a 2005 or something like that. It was lovely inside, zoomed nicely in a straight line, but scared me with the body lean when I went around a corner. Is the 2011 blessed with a better suspension?

You mean, like, when you drive over mountain passes at round about 2X the speed limit?
Er, "hypothetically", yes. It's fwd, though, and does tend to understeer in snow and on icy roads. At least until you get proficient at deliberately fishtailing it. Again, "hypothetically".

[ysette9]

Well a Prius fits a couple of your needs.  A hatchback, low to the ground, can seat 5.  I can't think of anything that fits all your needs.

Yeah, but handling-wise ... we call ours "the dishwasher" -- looks like a car, feels like an appliance. Ours is a Prime, and it actually only seats 4, come to think of it.  I mean, it's the responsible thing to drive, but ... (Doesn't help that the "fun" car is a 2011 Audi A3 with a manual transmission. 6 speed turbo. Hooaah!)

My parents have had a series of Prii and I’ve been ... underwhelmed. The brake is too sensitive, the gas unresponsive... at least all the batteries mean it handles corners well, if you can get it up to a speed to matter. :) The style and size is good though. You can’t beat a hatchback for versatility.

So the A3 is something that had caught my eye a decade ago because I thought it checked a lot of boxes.
I test drove one, lane it was a 2005 or something like that. It was lovely inside, zoomed nicely in a straight line, but scared me with the body lean when I went around a corner. Is the 2011 blessed with a better suspension?

You mean, like, when you drive over mountain passes at round about 2X the speed limit?
Er, "hypothetically", yes. It's fwd, though, and does tend to understeer in snow and on icy roads. At least until you get proficient at deliberately fishtailing it. Again, "hypothetically".

Hah

Actually just taking the highway on-ramp curve at whatever reasonable speed it was. The problem was likely in part that at the time we drove an Infiniti G35 and a Scion tC which both handled curves in an excellent fashion, so anything less than that was bleh.