Can we talk seriously about No Helmet?

[mpbaker22]

This has nothing to do with the argument.  Doctors aren't going around taking statistics of what happens in each accident.  You I don't make a decision based on one personal experience.  You I make it based on what is likely to happen, what is statistically expected.

FTFY. Clearly several people in the thread upstream who have known someone who had a terrible bike accident find it perfectly valid to make a decision based on personal experience.

Ok fine, make the changes.  It still makes YOUR decisions based on less than the best information available and sub-optimal.

I made thousands, tens of thousands actually, in the stock market while in college.  You won't telling all my friends to invest in the riskiest stocks around, based on personal experience.  So when the personal experience is fear driven, why is it so different?

[chardog]

Thanks for the link Rickk.  Honestly I was totally pro-helmet before this thread was started, and I might have even been in support of helmet laws.  But when you actually do the research and look at the arguments and numbers, it doesn't make any sense to mandate helmet use when their effect is negligible, at best.

Just to follow up (I have gone both ways on this topic), I want to give my personal solution below (I also really don't want to convince people to NOT wear helmets (after all I wear one!!)).  I am not a doctor (just an engineering type), and have not done any studies, so your mileage may vary!

I think a good helmet can provide some benefit in some circumstances, so for those that are willing to wear one I recommend a smooth round helmet to minimize the chance of traumatic brain injury due to twisting caused by the odd shapes and jagged holes in some helmet designs.  I wear a Giro Reverb which is pretty smooth and round - I would prefer if it came down farther in the back as I don't think most bike helmets provide enough protection in the back of the head.  What I would really like to see is more useful research into making bike helmets more effective.

I also recommend anyone doing off road riding to wear one, or anyone involved in especially dangerous riding to wear one. 

For those NOT willing to ride a bike with a helmet - I recommend they ride the bike without one (especially if they are a casual rider on a bike trail most of the time).  The benefits of riding a bike are many and strongly outweigh the risks of riding without a helmet.

And I strongly urge people to avoid trying to get helmet laws passed!!!!! 
<sarcasm on>The next law after bike helmet laws are walking helmet laws - and I am NOT wearing a helmet while walking.<sarcasm off>

Nice summary, well done.

[TrulyStashin]

I LOVE my helmet and feel like a sexypants every time I wear it.  Don't you?   

Ahhh, the clunky architeture.... the way it sits atop my head like half an egg shell.... the cool venty holes that let my sexy rays out into the universe.    Hot stuff, I'm telln' ya.

[Greenbeard]

For adult helmet use:

This is a discussion of risk.  Risk to ones self and risk to others.  The risk to others is the financial risk of supporting the injured person through disability assistance or increase insurance rates, etc.

All things have some level of risk and we, as a society, accept different levels based on, in part, these three factors:

1. How high is the risk actually.
2. How high is the perceived risk.
3. How politically correct is it to demand or legislate a change in behavior.

So, for example, it's OK to say smoking is bad and outlaw it because,
1. It has a high actual risk
2. It has a high perceived risk
3. It's politically acceptable to legislate against it.

On the other hand it is not OK to say obesity is bad.  because,
1. It has a high actual risk
2. It has a high perceived risk
3. It's NOT politically OK to persecute those involved.

So for helmets...
1. High actual risk? 
Don't know.  Can someone point to a study?  Can we compare the risk to say, a carnival ride, or swimming in the ocean without a life jacket?
2. High perceived risk? 
Clearly some think its highly risky.  Other don't.
3. Politically OK to persecute? 
More and more so, especially depending on the are of the country you're in.

When I was a kid, no one wore a helmet while biking or skiing.  Now it's the law for kids under 16 on bikes to wear a helmet, and it's rare to see someone skiing or snowboarding without one.

So we should see a drastic drop in the price of heath care soon right?

[GuitarStv]

So we should see a drastic drop in the price of heath care soon right?

Yes . . . Assuming that the bulk of the health care costs in your country are from biking and skiing.

[hybrid]

When I was a kid, no one wore a helmet while biking or skiing.  Now it's the law for kids under 16 on bikes to wear a helmet, and it's rare to see someone skiing or snowboarding without one.

These are some of the things I remember as a kid....

Seat belts were definitely not cool.
Smoking was cool and kids in my high school had their own designated area in the school where they could smoke. 
Using homophobic slurs was cool.  Being gay and out was almost unheard of.
And no one wore a helmet while biking.

Because the first three are laughably anachronistic, I'm always leery of any argument that goes "In the old days....".  There were plenty of good things to embrace from a simpler time, and there were plenty of things that were just simple-headed.

Times have changed.  Embracing, even mandating, bike helmets does not equate to a loss of freedom or a slippery slope.  It reflects the values of today, right now, much like seat belt laws.  Sometimes folks seem to forget that what looks like a slippery slope is often just a pendulum, that an overreaction in one direction ultimately leads to pullback.  You can see it happening now in regards to privacy laws.  What seemed normal and appropriate in 2002 following 9/11 is being openly questioned (and righfully so) in 2013.

Are bike helmet laws a loss of freedom?  No, they are merely a nuisance for the person that does not want to wear one, just like a seat belt is.  The difference of course being that (almost) no one doubts the efficacy of seat belts any more.  Not like in the good old days when those that did not want to be inconvenienced argued that wearing seat belts made them less safe.     

[gimp]

On the other hand, Hybrid, it is just as easy to say that when you were a kid, it was cool to hang out outside all day, roam around with your friends, climb trees, run around the woods, and only get home for dinner. Has that changed? Yes. For the better? I'd argue not.

I think that's in the spectrum of "things that were cool, which we may consider no longer ok."

Smoking ------- lettings kids play unsupervised outside --------- no helmets.

I sympathize with you saying the times have changed and we know better, and I sympathize with those saying it's an overreach and overprotective. I'd lean towards the latter but as you said, pendulum effect. Perhaps we overreached and we'll see kids actually hanging out outside again. Perhaps we haven't overreached yet and making people wear helmets is an overreach. Perhaps it's not there yet! Hell if I know. But in the end, I'd leave it up to the person.

[lauren_knows]

4 pages on this thread... what a hot topic.

I wear my helmet.  I've gone over the handlebars twice in my life.  Once I smashed my helmet in half and broke my collarbone, once I landed almost directly on my head (smashing the helmet, and causing a sore neck).  I was not doing anything extreme, just some freak road conditions.

I just don't see the downside of wearing a helmet.  I know this thread is all about risk, but I haven't seen much mention of the actual downsides, other than "it's such a low chance you'd need one!".  Is it seriously vanity? The practically one-time cost?

Though, I'm sure we could rehash this forever.

[grantmeaname]

The downside everyone's mentioning is decreased passing room, although there aren't any good studies on it.

[arebelspy]

Fashion, for some.

Or maybe not fashion, persay, but just a general dislike of them. 

My wife doesn't wear one. I do.

I'm not going to force her to, but she would ride less if she had to wear a helmet.