Australia is deliberately abusing refugees - CNN

[Metric Mouse]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/asia/australia-nauru-amnesty-human-rights-watch/index.html


Just saw this on CNN; I hadn't heard anything about it before.  Seems that the government of Naru, along with Australian officials, have been 'screening' all journalistic materials coming out of refugee camps, disallowing any audio or video recordings with refugees.  Interesting to see how this story breaks.

Quote from the article:

"Speaking to CNN, Australian director of Human Rights Watch Elaine Pearson said the country's policy towards refugees had been a "horrible human experiment."

"It seems to be a very deliberate policy to maintain a certain level of cruelty... I can't think of many other countries who would go to such lengths to inflict this level of suffering on people," she said."

[HappierAtHome]

Yep. Australia does not care for human rights or indeed, basic human decency. It makes you VERY unpopular in Aus to mention that you think maybe human beings should be treated in line with the UN human rights conventions.

[Metric Mouse]

Read the article, or just react to the headline?

Edited for ASSumption.

[HappierAtHome]

Read the article, or just react to the headline?

Read it. Why the hostility towards me?

[arebelspy]

From the article:

The Australian and Nauru governments make it very difficult for journalists to see the detention center firsthand.
The Nauru government charges media an A$8,000 dollar (around US$5,800) nonrefundable visa fee per application.
The Australian Immigration department requires journalists who wish to apply to visit Australian detention centers to first sign a form saying they will not interview any detainees, and that they will submit all their content to the government for screening.
They forbid pictures, video and audio records of detainees. The government says this is in order to protect their privacy.

What the fuck?  I thought Australia was a first world country.

How sad.  :(

Read the article, or just react to the headline?

Happier is Australian.. she would be more familiar than most of us with her country and government's attitude towards human rights.

[Metric Mouse]

Sorry all. I read Happier's post as sarcasm. I apologize for the mis-read.  I did not realize that Australia was so well known for mistreating humans, and should have researched that more. My bad.

[HappierAtHome]

No harm no foul. It was sincere - which is actually a shame, because I'd LOVE for accusations of human rights violations to be nothing more than a joke. Instead, sadly, our treatment of vulnerable people is the joke :-(

[marty998]

Yes sadly this is true and has been for the better part of a decade or more. It is a stain on the country's reputation.

But we've also proved that we are non-discriminatory - we treat Aboriginal children in youth detention just as horrifically.

Australia takes 18,000 refugees each year, selected from various war-torn desperate hell holes around the world. I believe the program does need to be capped and managed, so that we can provide adequate support to those we do accept. You can't just open the floodgates to everyone in the world without causing many of the social problems that have caused these people to flee in the first place.

Personally I just don't like it when people turn up unannounced in boats on our shores.... call it an ingrained mentality that those who do not wait their turn do not deserve to stay.

The Government is right to control the border but my view is that these people should be deported immediately, back to their last port of departure. When you lock refugees up in offshore detention camps and take away hope slowly over several years until you destroy people, it's disgraceful and pathetic for a first world country to do. Doubly so when it is done to children.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

The "You won't get to Australia" policy seems sensible and compared to all the people dying in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe, preferable. I'm not sure why it requires the detention center on Nauru, though.

[fa]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

[arebelspy]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

Unless you're planning on becoming a refugee here, it shouldn't have any impact on a visit.  I'm currently in Australia, and very much enjoying my time here.  Definitely planning to come back and explore more of the country.

I'm quite disappointed to hear their stance on human rights, and I can see why one might not want to give their tourist dollars to a place like that, and that's a reasonable reason not to visit, but the idea that you'll have to constantly deal with bigots doesn't seem like one to me.  Everyone we've met has been perfectly lovely people.

[HappierAtHome]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

Unless you're planning on becoming a refugee here, it shouldn't have any impact on a visit.  I'm currently in Australia, and very much enjoying my time here.  Definitely planning to come back and explore more of the country.

I'm quite disappointed to hear their stance on human rights, and I can see why one might not want to give their tourist dollars to a place like that, and that's a reasonable reason not to visit, but the idea that you'll have to constantly deal with bigots doesn't seem like one to me.  Everyone we've met has been perfectly lovely people.

To be fair, you're a white English-speaker. You would be exposed to our seedy, racist underbelly more if you were brown and / or the wrong type of foreign.

I love Australia, but we're backwards in a lot of ways. Do you know that we only 'gave' citizenship to Australian Aboriginal people in the nineteen SIXTIES?! And we still don't have marriage equality in 2016.

[GuitarStv]

Jesus, that is pretty horrible.

[arebelspy]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

Unless you're planning on becoming a refugee here, it shouldn't have any impact on a visit.  I'm currently in Australia, and very much enjoying my time here.  Definitely planning to come back and explore more of the country.

I'm quite disappointed to hear their stance on human rights, and I can see why one might not want to give their tourist dollars to a place like that, and that's a reasonable reason not to visit, but the idea that you'll have to constantly deal with bigots doesn't seem like one to me.  Everyone we've met has been perfectly lovely people.

To be fair, you're a white English-speaker. You would be exposed to our seedy, racist underbelly more if you were brown and / or the wrong type of foreign.

I love Australia, but we're backwards in a lot of ways. Do you know that we only 'gave' citizenship to Australian Aboriginal people in the nineteen SIXTIES?! And we still don't have marriage equality in 2016.

That's fine, and that's fair, but that's true of a LOT of places (see, for example, the US South).  Everywhere has its warts/skeletons.  There's tons of things I don't like about my home country (and lots of things I do).  I still think it's worth visiting, for a foreigner (despite how much we hassle you to do so--e.g. TSA).

Australia has a lot going for it, and some of those unfortunate things shouldn't necessarily stop someone from coming and enjoying the good bits, IMO.

[HappierAtHome]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

Unless you're planning on becoming a refugee here, it shouldn't have any impact on a visit.  I'm currently in Australia, and very much enjoying my time here.  Definitely planning to come back and explore more of the country.

I'm quite disappointed to hear their stance on human rights, and I can see why one might not want to give their tourist dollars to a place like that, and that's a reasonable reason not to visit, but the idea that you'll have to constantly deal with bigots doesn't seem like one to me.  Everyone we've met has been perfectly lovely people.

To be fair, you're a white English-speaker. You would be exposed to our seedy, racist underbelly more if you were brown and / or the wrong type of foreign.

I love Australia, but we're backwards in a lot of ways. Do you know that we only 'gave' citizenship to Australian Aboriginal people in the nineteen SIXTIES?! And we still don't have marriage equality in 2016.

That's fine, and that's fair, but that's true of a LOT of places (see, for example, the US South).  Everywhere has its warts/skeletons.  There's tons of things I don't like about my home country (and lots of things I do).  I still think it's worth visiting, for a foreigner (despite how much we hassle you to do so--e.g. TSA).

Australia has a lot going for it, and some of those unfortunate things shouldn't necessarily stop someone from coming and enjoying the good bits, IMO.

Yes. I agree with you (or I wouldn't live here!).

I'm just *very* aware that Australia is a nice place for me as a white, straight, not-visibly-disabled person, and that it might be a wildly different experience if any one of those factors was altered.

[arebelspy]

I'm just *very* aware that Australia is a nice place for me as a white, straight, not-visibly-disabled person, and that it might be a wildly different experience if any one of those factors was altered.

Very true.  Good point.

Something true in many, many places.  And good to remind ourselves of.  Long way to go.

[Metric Mouse]

Makes one wonder how the treatment/housing/care of illegal aliens who are caught entering the United States compares. Basically the USA does much the same thing until status can be confirmed or arrangements made to return the refugee/immigrant to their home country.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Makes one wonder how the treatment/housing/care of illegal aliens who are caught entering the United States compares. Basically the USA does much the same thing until status can be confirmed or arrangements made to return the refugee/immigrant to their home country.

The stories I have read of ICE detention centers are pretty upsetting.

[Kaminoge]

As others have stated this is an ongoing issue with Australia. We have a pretty horrible human rights record which I for one am very much not proud of. I didn't watch the clip but we've been warned by the UN before with good reason. In recent years the policy has been to stop people before they can make it to Australia and we can treat them terribly because they're not in Australia. Mind you making it to the mainland doesn't mean you're home free - reports of our detention centres in Australia itself are pretty poor as well.

If you want more evidence of horrific look at how we treat Aboriginal kids in detention... as someone else mentioned, you don't have to be a refugee.  http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/07/28/australia-youth-detention-stout-bts.cnn  (I think that should let you see a story on it, my internet is too slow to load it right now).

Arebelspy I'm glad you're enjoying Australia and I agree that there are loads of positive things about the country but I think it's important that we admit that there are loads of negatives too. In recent years our politics have been a disgrace and our treatment of refugees and Aboriginals is just one aspect of that (although in fairness we've treated Aboriginals pretty awfully for the entire 250 odd years that Europeans have been in the country so that's not exactly a new thing). I find it particularly disturbing because I'm old enough to remember how we treated Vietnamese boat people who arrived in the 80s. Not saying it was perfect but there was definitely much more of a spirit of generosity and a willingness to understand that they'd been through horrific things.

[fa]

I have noticed that type of attitude in quite a few Australians I know (no offense intended to the good Australians on this forum).  It is why Australia is not on my bucket list as a place to visit.  I can find bigotry for a lot less money closer to home if I want to.

Unless you're planning on becoming a refugee here, it shouldn't have any impact on a visit.  I'm currently in Australia, and very much enjoying my time here.  Definitely planning to come back and explore more of the country.

I'm quite disappointed to hear their stance on human rights, and I can see why one might not want to give their tourist dollars to a place like that, and that's a reasonable reason not to visit, but the idea that you'll have to constantly deal with bigots doesn't seem like one to me.  Everyone we've met has been perfectly lovely people.

To be fair, you're a white English-speaker. You would be exposed to our seedy, racist underbelly more if you were brown and / or the wrong type of foreign.

I love Australia, but we're backwards in a lot of ways. Do you know that we only 'gave' citizenship to Australian Aboriginal people in the nineteen SIXTIES?! And we still don't have marriage equality in 2016.

That's fine, and that's fair, but that's true of a LOT of places (see, for example, the US South).  Everywhere has its warts/skeletons.  There's tons of things I don't like about my home country (and lots of things I do).  I still think it's worth visiting, for a foreigner (despite how much we hassle you to do so--e.g. TSA).

Australia has a lot going for it, and some of those unfortunate things shouldn't necessarily stop someone from coming and enjoying the good bits, IMO.

Yes. I agree with you (or I wouldn't live here!).

I'm just *very* aware that Australia is a nice place for me as a white, straight, not-visibly-disabled person, and that it might be a wildly different experience if any one of those factors was altered.

That is impressive, HaH.  Very few people can assess their own country in a fairly objective and nuanced way. 

I did not want to suggest every Australian is a bigot.  I have just seen enough evidence of it to take away a particular desire to go there.  Arebelspy, I am glad you are having a good experience there.  Maybe you are white, straight and not disabled?  I had such a fantastic experience with the natural beauty and the people in New Zealand that I would prefer to go back there if I wanted to travel in that direction.

I am very comfortable traveling to all corners of the globe, so another issue for me is that Australia just doesn't seem interesting enough to travel that distance.  I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

On a side note:  not visibly disabled?  White and straight doesn't shock me that much but disability?

[HappierAtHome]

Fa, are you expressing surprise that there's discrimination against people with disabilities in Australia? If so, yep. I see it first hand on a regular basis. It's shit. The unemployment rate for people who have disabilities but who are perfectly capable of working is high. From what I've personally witnessed discrimination is worse for disabilities that affect interpersonal interactions (think autism), rather than things like physical mobility issues. It hasn't escaped my notice that my organisation of over 1000 people only employs two people with known / declared disabilities (one has level three autism; the other is blind).

If you were instead expressing surprise that I refer to myself as not visibly disabled (which is the other way I thought your comment could be read), I have an autoimmune condition causing arthritis and other issues. I'm lucky that my employer is happy for me to work only four days a week, and accepts that I have to call in sick more than a healthy person. Most people with my condition end up on the Disability Support Pension. I'll be FI long before I'm physically unable to work though :-)

[fa]

Disability discrimination really does surprise me, but maybe it shouldn't.  Maybe it exists here in the US also and I am not aware of it.

Of course, the US has its own issues.  Think Guantanamo and the many wars in which we seem to get involved.  Drone attacks in foreign countries to kill people without trial.  Anyway, you get the idea.  Sadly, Australia is not alone.  Judging both presidential candidates, I don't think these issues will get resolved in the next 4 years.

[Lulee]

I wasn't as surprised by this report as some seem to be, partly due to knowledge of the treatment of Aboriginal peoples through the years (similar to the horrors my European ancestors visited on my reputed Native American ancestors) and more recently from articles about the Cleverman TV series which in my mind seemed to address Aboriginal as well as refugee experiences in such detention camps.  Guess I missed the serie's showing on Sundance but hope to catch up with it soon.  fa is right about Australia not being alone in such shameful treatment of people.

[arebelspy]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

I think it'd be worth looking into, at least.  Australia's seemed fairly diverse to me so far.  Melbourne, for example, is quite an international city.. a great Chinatown, Greek town (the largest Greek population in the world outside of Greece itself), etc.  Something like half the nation is a first or second generation immigrant.  :)

 

Disability discrimination really does surprise me, but maybe it shouldn't.  Maybe it exists here in the US also and I am not aware of it.

It's huge in the U.S.  That's why we have the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), because of the massive and historical discrimination against people with disabilities.  And there are violations of it all the time.  At least we have it as a tool to help protect them (of course they still have to sue to get it enforced).

Nowhere's perfect.  I just think it'd be a shame to disregard a whole continent for the ugly behavior of a few.

I'd be arguing just as hard to someone saying it's not worth visiting the US because of the racism we experience (via explicit things like cop shootings and racially biased justice system, and via casual racism as is found in the South).  The US is a huge, diverse place, with many wonderful people (and many not so wonderful).  I can't guarantee you won't experience some form of ugliness, but I've experienced some of that in various places around the world, and I wouldn't hold it against a whole country, personally, or let it stop me from seeing all the amazing, beautiful, and wonderful things they have to offer.

Again, YMMV, and I totally respect your choice to travel--or not--as you wish.  You're absolutely right to be concerned about it, and consider it.  I'm just giving you a little something to think about, perhaps, about why it may be worth it, anyways.  :)

[Leisured]

I am Australian, and there is no good solution to he problem of illegal immigrants. Before the current policy, unscrupulous people smugglers overseas would buy old, cheap and often un-seaworthy boats, pack them with fare paying illegal immigrants, and send them south to us. Some of these boats sank at sea, and there was much loss of life. Look at a map; the sea journey can be a thousand kilometres.

The current policy is designed to discourage illegal immigrants and people smugglers, and it works. No more old boats sinking at sea. I dont like the policy, but it is choice between a bad solution and a worse one.

[marty998]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

We are probably the most culturally diverse nation on earth. I think you will find you are confusing "culturally diverse" with "different to your own" culture.

Most 3rd world countries tend to be quite mono-cultured....you won't find too much openly practiced diversity in religion, or sexuality, or tradition for example in Afghanistan.

In Australia you will find people with historical backgrounds from over 200 nationalities. We are not a bigoted people in general. But the old colonial era attitudes of white supremacy still linger on.

[Metric Mouse]

I'm just *very* aware that Australia is a nice place for me as a white, straight, not-visibly-disabled person, and that it might be a wildly different experience if any one of those factors was altered.

That is impressive, HaH.  Very few people can assess their own country in a fairly objective and nuanced way. 

I did not want to suggest every Australian is a bigot.  I have just seen enough evidence of it to take away a particular desire to go there.  Arebelspy, I am glad you are having a good experience there.  Maybe you are white, straight and not disabled?  I had such a fantastic experience with the natural beauty and the people in New Zealand that I would prefer to go back there if I wanted to travel in that direction.

New Zealand is great. OZ was fine the last time I visited, but I was in the company of straight, white persons. I wonder if my experience would be different now as part of an interracial couple.  It wasn't really one of my top destinations to hit with the kiddo, but it might be a good place to expose a mixed-race child to the complexities of modern society.

[HappierAtHome]

I've previously been the white half of an interracial couple (more than once, different races).

We were frequently subjected to racially-based abuse, even in the 'inner-city bubble' as Mark31 puts it. It was very eye-opening for me: as a tall, white, blonde, reasonably-attractive person I'd never really understood what it was like to be abused based solely on a random aspect of your physical appearance. It's one thing to understand the concept of racism and another to be told you're a white c*nt who has no right to date the boy you're dating solely because you're white. Obviously the abuse directed at the boys in question was far worse.

Do I want to believe that Australia is less racist now than it was back then (ten + years ago)? Yes. Do I think it would also be different now, as a well-dressed grown woman, than it was for a teenager? Yes, I think far fewer people would feel comfortable shouting abuse at me in the street now. Do I think people who are racist to that extent are the minority here? Yes. But it still happens. I don't want to pretend it doesn't. Even a little bit of racism is too much for my taste.

That said, I agree with pretty much everything Mark31 has said. We actually do a really great job, overall, of integrating and celebrating different cultures here. I think too that each generation is more open-minded when it comes to race and culture than the one before, so this is an issue that will overall improve with time (not discounting his excellent point about the situations that lead people towards racist viewpoints due to disadvantage and lack of exposure and education).

[fa]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

We are probably the most culturally diverse nation on earth. I think you will find you are confusing "culturally diverse" with "different to your own" culture.

Most 3rd world countries tend to be quite mono-cultured....you won't find too much openly practiced diversity in religion, or sexuality, or tradition for example in Afghanistan.

In Australia you will find people with historical backgrounds from over 200 nationalities. We are not a bigoted people in general. But the old colonial era attitudes of white supremacy still linger on.

Thanks for pointing out my poorly worded post.  I meant culturally different and interesting, where I erroneously wrote "culturally diverse".

To be honest, visiting Afghanistan is not really on my bucket list either.

When visiting a place like Australia, I would hold it to the standards of tolerance in first world countries like the US and western European countries.  I fully understand that virtually all of the third world has a different standard of acceptance and tolerance.  Therefore, I would hold, say, Cuba to a different standard than Australia.  Different context and expectation.

Friends of mine, experienced travelers, recently visited Australia.  They had high hopes for good food, good beer and interesting places to see.  They were clearly disappointed in their visit.  Nothing terrible happened, but the visit just did not meet their expectations.  This is not like them at all.  I know it is an n of 1, but they confirmed my thoughts.  Maybe confirmation bias!

In any event, the world is a big place and we are fortunately free to pick our destinations.  Keeps most of us happy.

[deborah]

In International reports on multi-culturalism, racism... Australia ALWAYS comes out in the best 10 countries - often first or second (Canada also leads). Sure we have racism, and we could do better - as could every country in the world.

I personally have both Buddhists and Muslims in my family, because a sibling and a BIL married Asians of non-Christian backgrounds. This is modern Australia and it is not uncommon. The children in both these families experience far more racism when they visit their Asian relatives than they do in Australia, and that is one of the main reasons both families live here. Do they experience racism in Australia - of course, but it is occasional, and it would (regrettably) happen anywhere.

Our humanitarian refugee intake is also one of the highest in the world per head of population. Not in the top 10, but higher than that of the US, for example.

However, successive governments have decided that boat people need to be deterred in ways that many of us (but unfortunately not enough) find very repugnant. The article OP refers to points out some of the problems.

So, look at your own part of the world. If you don't come to Australia because you think it is racist, look at your own country. Yes, we could do better. Yes, there are areas where we do worse than others - particularly boat people and our indigenous population. And many of our people are working to try to change things. But at least we have knowledge about where our problems are, and they are aired in the media. If you think your country is better, you may find that your media are not as forthright about your own problems, rather than that you have none. Certainly these populations are usually the ones most discriminated against in just about every country in the world.

[Metric Mouse]

Well, to be fair Deborah, the article listed specifically pointed out that the Australian media is NOT accurately reporting Australian abuse of immigrants, due to direct governmental intervention.

[deborah]

Well, to be fair Deborah, the article listed specifically pointed out that the Australian media is NOT accurately reporting Australian abuse of immigrants, due to direct governmental intervention.

No, government intervention is TRYING to prevent media from reporting abuse. The media is doing a good job (like it often does in Australia - it tends to get more than its fair share of international awards for such coverage) reporting it.

[nnls]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

We are probably the most culturally diverse nation on earth. I think you will find you are confusing "culturally diverse" with "different to your own" culture.

Most 3rd world countries tend to be quite mono-cultured....you won't find too much openly practiced diversity in religion, or sexuality, or tradition for example in Afghanistan.

In Australia you will find people with historical backgrounds from over 200 nationalities. We are not a bigoted people in general. But the old colonial era attitudes of white supremacy still linger on.

Wouldn't the lingering attitude of white supremacy suggest we are a bigoted people in general?

I'm just *very* aware that Australia is a nice place for me as a white, straight, not-visibly-disabled person, and that it might be a wildly different experience if any one of those factors was altered.

I would have to agree with HappierAtHome that Australia can be a great place to live, but white, straight, not-visibly disabled people who say we don't have a problem just because they don't have to experience it really annoys me. Just because it isnt an issue for you doesnt mean its not an issue for many people.

And I certainly think that Australia can do a lot better with its treatment of refugees and should not be detaining people for years. If we have found they aren't genuine refugees then send them back and if they are we should honour our obligation to ensure their human rights are respected and protected and offer them asylum or assistance.

[fa]

Well, to be fair Deborah, the article listed specifically pointed out that the Australian media is NOT accurately reporting Australian abuse of immigrants, due to direct governmental intervention.

No, government intervention is TRYING to prevent media from reporting abuse. The media is doing a good job (like it often does in Australia - it tends to get more than its fair share of international awards for such coverage) reporting it.

Well, what a relief that the government is not effective.  A presumably democratic government attempting to suppress freedom of the press and freedom of information is very disturbing indeed.  No matter how many Pulitzers Australian media receive, it is astonishing that it is official government policy to violate the basic human rights of these human beings, and then actively try to cover it up.  Freedom and human rights seem to be under attack all over the world.  I sincerely hope that Australians will actively stand up to such a policy implemented by their representative government.

[nnls]

Well, to be fair Deborah, the article listed specifically pointed out that the Australian media is NOT accurately reporting Australian abuse of immigrants, due to direct governmental intervention.

No, government intervention is TRYING to prevent media from reporting abuse. The media is doing a good job (like it often does in Australia - it tends to get more than its fair share of international awards for such coverage) reporting it.

Unfortunately I think the government is doing a good (bad??)  effective job of preventing the media from reporting abuse. A lot of what happens we don't hear about until a long time after or not at all. I imagine it is a lot worse than what we hear about in Australian media

[marty998]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

We are probably the most culturally diverse nation on earth. I think you will find you are confusing "culturally diverse" with "different to your own" culture.

Most 3rd world countries tend to be quite mono-cultured....you won't find too much openly practiced diversity in religion, or sexuality, or tradition for example in Afghanistan.

In Australia you will find people with historical backgrounds from over 200 nationalities. We are not a bigoted people in general. But the old colonial era attitudes of white supremacy still linger on.

Wouldn't the lingering attitude of white supremacy suggest we are a bigoted people in general?

I don't think so. I have dark skin and it's been a long time since I've experienced racism as such... but I know that it doesn't take much for attitudes to surface. Individuals are fine, it's when a sufficiently large mob gets whipped up into a frenzy that ordinary people tend to lose sight of their senses.

Underlying the unconscious nature of the bias, the top echelons of business, politics, entertainment / celebrity / fashion and sport are still very much dominated by anglos/whites. Even the nightly news desks are all white (ABC's Jeremy Fernandez, and Li Lin Chin on SBS the exceptions).

Ask yourself how that happens in a country where the majority will soon be migrants, or of migrant/non-English ancestry.

[nnls]

I tend to visit more culturally diverse - often developing - countries but maybe I need to look deeper into Australia!

We are probably the most culturally diverse nation on earth. I think you will find you are confusing "culturally diverse" with "different to your own" culture.

Most 3rd world countries tend to be quite mono-cultured....you won't find too much openly practiced diversity in religion, or sexuality, or tradition for example in Afghanistan.

In Australia you will find people with historical backgrounds from over 200 nationalities. We are not a bigoted people in general. But the old colonial era attitudes of white supremacy still linger on.

Wouldn't the lingering attitude of white supremacy suggest we are a bigoted people in general?

I don't think so. I have dark skin and it's been a long time since I've experienced racism as such... but I know that it doesn't take much for attitudes to surface. Individuals are fine, it's when a sufficiently large mob gets whipped up into a frenzy that ordinary people tend to lose sight of their senses.

Underlying the unconscious nature of the bias, the top echelons of business, politics, entertainment / celebrity / fashion and sport are still very much dominated by anglos/whites. Even the nightly news desks are all white (ABC's Jeremy Fernandez, and Li Lin Chin on SBS the exceptions).

Ask yourself how that happens in a country where the majority will soon be migrants, or of migrant/non-English ancestry.

I don't think in Australia it is often obvious racism (people yelling abuse ect - though that does happen), but I definitely  notice differences in the way people are treated based on ethnicity. And yes the mob mentality makes it worse.

I do hope that with more immigrants coming to Australia we do become more tolerant, but we will see. Especially considering according to the last census of those not born in Australia the majority were born in the UK.

But what I was saying was that if we as a nation have a lingering attitude to white supremacy like you said, then we have an attitude of bigotry. You cant have an attitude of white supremacy without being racists towards those who arent, even if it is on a subconscious level.   

[Primm]

I am Australian, and there is no good solution to he problem of illegal immigrants refugees. Before the current policy, unscrupulous people smugglers overseas would buy old, cheap and often un-seaworthy boats, pack them with fare paying illegal immigrants, and send them south to us. Some of these boats sank at sea, and there was much loss of life. Look at a map; the sea journey can be a thousand kilometres.

The current policy is designed to discourage illegal immigrants refugees and people smugglers, and it works. No more old boats sinking at sea. I dont like the policy, but it is choice between a bad solution and a worse one.

FTFY.

[former player]

I am Australian, and there is no good solution to he problem of illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees. Before the current policy, unscrupulous people smugglers overseas would buy old, cheap and often un-seaworthy boats, pack them with fare paying illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees, and send them south to us. Some of these boats sank at sea, and there was much loss of life. Look at a map; the sea journey can be a thousand kilometres.

The current policy is designed to discourage illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees and people smugglers, and it works. No more old boats sinking at sea. I dont like the policy, but it is choice between a bad solution and a worse one.

FTFY.

FTFFY

[nnls]

I am Australian, and there is no good solution to he problem of illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees. Before the current policy, unscrupulous people smugglers overseas would buy old, cheap and often un-seaworthy boats, pack them with fare paying illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees, and send them south to us. Some of these boats sank at sea, and there was much loss of life. Look at a map; the sea journey can be a thousand kilometres.

The current policy is designed to discourage illegal immigrants economic migrants and refugees and people smugglers, and it works. No more old boats sinking at sea. I dont like the policy, but it is choice between a bad solution and a worse one.

FTFY.

FTFFY

Asylum seeker is probably the most accurate description. And if they are found not to be genuine refugees then they should be sent back, not detained for years. 

[Fresh Bread]

Asylum seeker is probably the most accurate description. And if they are found not to be genuine refugees then they should be sent back, not detained for years.

I think they are sent back immediately if found not to be genuine, aren't they? Isn't the problem that it takes years to determine their claim? I guess there are also people there that have been found to be genuine but don't want to go to the country selected for them and so are in limbo. 

[nnls]

Asylum seeker is probably the most accurate description. And if they are found not to be genuine refugees then they should be sent back, not detained for years.

I think they are sent back immediately if found not to be genuine, aren't they? Isn't the problem that it takes years to determine their claim? I guess there are also people there that have been found to be genuine but don't want to go to the country selected for them and so are in limbo.

Yes I believe the problem is it takes too long to process. Most people have been in detention for over 12 months http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics-feb2015.pdf

I just feel as a relatively rich nation we can afford to take more refugees instead of paying third world countries to take them like we tried to do with Cambodia, Nauru and PNG.

[HappierAtHome]

Asylum seeker is probably the most accurate description. And if they are found not to be genuine refugees then they should be sent back, not detained for years.

I think they are sent back immediately if found not to be genuine, aren't they? Isn't the problem that it takes years to determine their claim? I guess there are also people there that have been found to be genuine but don't want to go to the country selected for them and so are in limbo.

Yes I believe the problem is it takes too long to process. Most people have been in detention for over 12 months http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics-feb2015.pdf

I just feel as a relatively rich nation we can afford to take more refugees instead of paying third world countries to take them like we tried to do with Cambodia, Nauru and PNG.

We can afford it, AND it's in the best interest of our economy. And it's the right thing to do.

But fear of The Other (in this case: brown people! Some of whom don't speak English! And some of whom even worship a different god!) wins every time, sadly.

[nnls]

Asylum seeker is probably the most accurate description. And if they are found not to be genuine refugees then they should be sent back, not detained for years.

I think they are sent back immediately if found not to be genuine, aren't they? Isn't the problem that it takes years to determine their claim? I guess there are also people there that have been found to be genuine but don't want to go to the country selected for them and so are in limbo.

Yes I believe the problem is it takes too long to process. Most people have been in detention for over 12 months http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics-feb2015.pdf

I just feel as a relatively rich nation we can afford to take more refugees instead of paying third world countries to take them like we tried to do with Cambodia, Nauru and PNG.

We can afford it, AND it's in the best interest of our economy. And it's the right thing to do.

But fear of The Other (in this case: brown people! Some of whom don't speak English! And some of whom even worship a different god!) wins every time, sadly.

100% agree

[marty998]

They are not sent back immediately because they destroy their documents before they board the boat and have their passports taken by the people smugglers. Consequently they can't prove which country they originally come from (and those countries will likely torture/kill them if they do go back anyway).

Many are rendered stateless and in limbo. They can't enter Australia and they can't go back to where they came from so they languish in a form of purgatory.

[nnls]

They are not sent back immediately because they destroy their documents before they board the boat and have their passports taken by the people smugglers. Consequently they can't prove which country they originally come from (and those countries will likely torture/kill them if they do go back anyway).

Many are rendered stateless and in limbo. They can't enter Australia and they can't go back to where they came from so they languish in a form of purgatory.

If they are going to be tortured/ killed in their home country then we should be granting them asylum as per our signing of the refugee convention not holding them for years in offshore processing in substandard conditions.

[stripey]

Shameful trying to resettle refugees in PNG. The major of women in PNG have experienced sexual violence... 55 to 70% depending on how you crunch the numbers.

[nnls]

Further calls for the detention centre to be shutdown

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/17/this-is-critical-103-nauru-and-manus-staff-speak-out-their-letter-in-full

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/17/more-than-100-former-nauru-and-manus-staff-call-for-centres-to-close

[forummm]

Makes one wonder how the treatment/housing/care of illegal aliens who are caught entering the United States compares. Basically the USA does much the same thing until status can be confirmed or arrangements made to return the refugee/immigrant to their home country.

The stories I have read of ICE detention centers are pretty upsetting.

Or Guantanamo. Where people the government has admitted are innocent are still being held. The US also has restrictions on journalists visiting and documenting there as well.

[stripey]

Of course, mandatory detention in Australia only applies if one arrives by boat, not by plane.

Looks like Manus Island will close down. I'll be watching the news closely the next few days about how that will happen.