The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: scottish on March 09, 2021, 03:45:52 PM
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I'm wondering what to do when the office where I work reopens at the end of the summer. Or whenever the pandemic is over.
The first 6 months of working from home were a little difficult. My routine was broken! I no longer got up, went for my swim or run, ate breakfast, packed a lunch and went to work. Now I got up, ate breakfast and sat down at my desk at home. Working with colleagues was much more difficult. All meetings were over zoom. The pool was closed, but I could run whenever I wanted (as long as it didn't conflict with something.) And I was able to eat lunch outside in my yard and enjoy the fresh air and sunshine. Life was different, but I got used to it.
Then winter came along. Days got short, temperatures dropped to below freezing. Ski season started late due to some unusual weather in December and January. I'd largely accepted working from home, and I was just as happy not to get up in the dark and drive to work at -20 in January.
Now winter is coming to an end. Pandemic vaccination programs are ramping up. I'm regularly getting 8 hours of sleep a night, something I haven't done since high school. And the idea of commuting to work 5 days a week to hang out in cubicle land isn't very appealing at all. I'm pretty sure my employer will insist that everyone work from the office once it's open again. Maybe it's time to pull the plug?
What's everyone else planning?
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Pre-pandemic, we were only allowed to work from home 1 day/week. My work has said that when we come back, there will be additional telework flexibilities, but full-time telework still won't be allowed. I don't know yet what the additional flexibilities will look like, but ideally I'd like to telework 2-3 days/week.
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My job requires in office when allowed to openly safely as my job can't be done remotely as I deal with the public but have been 100% WFH best we can since March 2020.
The wife's company is a lot different and they have stated no return until sept at earliest.
Her company has been WFH since March 2020 and her type of work can be done 100% remote. I'm hoping they do a hybrid when back to normal. She used to work 1x wk from home, hoping for 3, but 5 would be ideal with her 75 min commute each way.
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This is going to vary a ton from person to person and situation to situation I'm sure. I'm actually changing jobs right around when I hope to come up on the vaccine list, assuming paperwork goes through. Main reason for the change is to switch to more of a coast-fire, but having a local office to go to is definitely a positive, though I don't expect to go every day even with the reduced schedule.
But then my 'commute' will only be 10 minutes on a bad day - much shorter than many so it is pretty easy for me to go either way on working in the office.
Company I'm leaving has a policy of "must be vaccinated" to return and apparently is shifting to smaller offices as we've all proven the work can certainly be done remotely.
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I'll be WFH until September, and then will have more flex to WFH. But, it will be something like 2 days/week. My employer has been clear that we can't WFH 5 days/week.
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I was WFH before the pandemic and I’ll still be WFH. I’m not sure I could go back to working in an office anymore; I’ve kind of gone feral. It’s been 7 years at least, I think? That said, if I did work in an office, I’d have no qualms going back once I’d been vaccinated. Those vaccines are pretty protective.
Oh, but for me personally and vaccines aside, I don’t see me ever going back to an in person office job. I’d retire first if it came to that. WFH is just too good.
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My company won't require me to go back into the office.
I'd prefer to work in the office at least some of the time, if it means that I'll see and work with my co-workers face-to-face. So in large part, I suppose what I'll do depends on what they do. If the other people on my team feel like working 100% from home, or if they move away from our location and work completely remotely, or if we hire someone from elsewhere in the country so that we will probably never have an in-person team meeting again, most of my reasons to want to work in the office disappear and I'll probably stay home too.
And, of course, my company might decide it's not worth it to keep operating our office.
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My company has only said that we're to WFH whenever possible until Covid is "resolved". Whatever that means.
If you'd asked me 6 months ago about returning to the office I'd have said that I never wanted to go back. However, it's been a year now of me sitting alone at home while the kids go to school and DH mostly works from home, but sometimes goes out, and I'm lonely. I miss just being around other people. Perhaps if there weren't also restrictions on social activities I'd be less squirrely, but right now sitting in a beige office while other people type near me sounds pretty good. Of course, this only works if my coworkers also decide to return to the office.
I think the shine of working from home has worn off because it hasn't been a choice. It's hard to like something when you have no other option.
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Even now my employer insists that I report at the office once a week (once or twice a month there may actually be a reason I need to be physically present, but the policy requirement is once a week). I'm not sure if I will continue to be allowed to work from home 4 days a week post pandemic. I will likely work from home as much as allowed. As our team has moved to a space that cannot physically accommodate the whole team part time work from home is now the expected post pandemic norm.
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Where's "my employer will require people to go back to the office so I took a differnet job to stay remote" :-)
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Where's "my employer will require people to go back to the office so I took a differnet job to stay remote" :-)
Given the venue, "employer requiring us to come back, so I retired" as well.
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Where's "my employer will require people to go back to the office so I took a differnet job to stay remote" :-)
Given the venue, "employer requiring us to come back, so I retired" as well.
Not sure that I've come across anyone who has already retired because they expect to have to go back to the office at some point, but I have seen a few posters who have stated they will quit as soon as they have to go back to commuting (or travel for work).
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Where's "my employer will require people to go back to the office so I took a differnet job to stay remote" :-)
Given the venue, "employer requiring us to come back, so I retired" as well.
Not sure that I've come across anyone who has already retired because they expect to have to go back to the office at some point, but I have seen a few posters who have stated they will quit as soon as they have to go back to commuting (or travel for work).
I'm calling new part-time gig "coast-FIRE" - does that count?
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I pay for my office so I go in once or twice a week when I feel like it. It's nice to have the option to work from home or the office.
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I was WFH before the pandemic and I’ll still be WFH. I’m not sure I could go back to working in an office anymore; I’ve kind of gone feral. It’s been 7 years at least, I think? That said, if I did work in an office, I’d have no qualms going back once I’d been vaccinated. Those vaccines are pretty protective.
Oh, but for me personally and vaccines aside, I don’t see me ever going back to an in person office job. I’d retire first if it came to that. WFH is just too good.
Ha, cheers! I've been exclusively WFH for 8 years and often refer to myself as feral. I took a 100% remote management position at the end of last year and I am so grateful every time I can attend a meeting while in my pajamas.
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I work in a fairly small office (~50 people) but only 5 of us work in my division, the rest are in corporate. We also have a 6th member of the team who is remote at our facility in FL, no idea if she plans to go in or stay remote and I don’t think anyone cares. Of the 4 other people on my team, 2 are the divisional CEO/CFO and they are on the road something like 50-75% of the time, and don’t care what I do. I figure I will probably go in 2-3x a month, maybe. I have my own office in a Chicago high rise downtown, the main issue is the 30+ min train ride to/from the office. I will likely lose my office but I don’t care (I emptied it one weekend and brought it all to my home office months ago).
The biggest change for me is when I’ll start traveling again; I was on the road 1 week out of every 4/5 pre-pandemic; since it has started I’ve only traveled once and I’ll do the same trip again soon, driving to Ohio for one of our plants.
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Where's "my employer will require people to go back to the office so I took a differnet job to stay remote" :-)
Given the venue, "employer requiring us to come back, so I retired" as well.
Not sure that I've come across anyone who has already retired because they expect to have to go back to the office at some point, but I have seen a few posters who have stated they will quit as soon as they have to go back to commuting (or travel for work).
For me, both are true. I'll begrudgingly go back to the office 2-3 days/week, and WFH the rest of the time. But, international travel? Totally off the table. COVID has reminded me how amazing my life can be when I'm not constantly jet lagged, dreading a trip, on a trip, or planning a trip.
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Not sure that I've come across anyone who has already retired because they expect to have to go back to the office at some point
My mum has recently retired because she didn't want to go back to the office. Long commute so WFH worked fine for her.
At this stage I'm going back to the office regularly in late March (and have been attending one day a week since early Feb), probably a mix of WFH and in-office for the foreseeable future. At the moment offices are limited to 75% of capacity. I'm happy to have a day or two a week at home, but honestly I'm looking forward to returning.
My workplace is pretty flexible but I prefer the socialisation and working in an office forces me into a better routine 🙂
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I retired, otherwise I would have been back at work for 7 months already. Mine was not a work-from-home job.
DH has been working from home, and I doubt he'll ever go back as long as he stays in his current role.
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You need another option on the poll - "I have already been back in the office some or all of the time due to the nature of my job". (I did not respond to the poll).
I work in a Chemistry lab, the rest of our corporate staff has been WFH since March, but my group (and others) needs to be in the office most of the time. I WFH roughly 2 days a week, but the rest of the time, I'm in the lab. Approximately 70% of the work I do is tied to laboratory activities, so WFH 100% is not possible.
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Wife's company is allowing full-time WFH for a few roles. For the others, they will have a choice of full-time office or 2 days at week from home. If one elects full-time office, then you keep your office/cubicle. If part-time at the office, there will be a reservation system where they reserve a work space each week. Looks like that will start some point after June.
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You need another option on the poll - "I have already been back in the office some or all of the time due to the nature of my job". (I did not respond to the poll).
I work in a Chemistry lab, the rest of our corporate staff has been WFH since March, but my group (and others) needs to be in the office most of the time. I WFH roughly 2 days a week, but the rest of the time, I'm in the lab. Approximately 70% of the work I do is tied to laboratory activities, so WFH 100% is not possible.
Also, some people never left work. Different job types, different local policies on shut downs, etc.
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You need another option on the poll - "I have already been back in the office some or all of the time due to the nature of my job". (I did not respond to the poll).
I work in a Chemistry lab, the rest of our corporate staff has been WFH since March, but my group (and others) needs to be in the office most of the time. I WFH roughly 2 days a week, but the rest of the time, I'm in the lab. Approximately 70% of the work I do is tied to laboratory activities, so WFH 100% is not possible.
Right?! Where is the "I've been working a completely unpredictable hybrid schedule of WFH/in person lab work since April 2020"?
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I've been back in the office full time since June 1, 2020. WFH is only allowed if you are quarantining due to close contact or caring for kids that are quarantined/isolated.
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I answered full time remote, but early in the pandemic I left my job that was rambling about going back to in person mid August. I job hunted for a slightly lower pay full time remote position that would be remote after the pandemic. No regrets, I have zero intent of commuting ever again.
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For me, both are true. I'll begrudgingly go back to the office 2-3 days/week, and WFH the rest of the time. But, international travel? Totally off the table. COVID has reminded me how amazing my life can be when I'm not constantly jet lagged, dreading a trip, on a trip, or planning a trip.
I was specifically thinking of you when I included the travel part.
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You need another option on the poll - "I have already been back in the office some or all of the time due to the nature of my job". (I did not respond to the poll).
I work in a Chemistry lab, the rest of our corporate staff has been WFH since March, but my group (and others) needs to be in the office most of the time. I WFH roughly 2 days a week, but the rest of the time, I'm in the lab. Approximately 70% of the work I do is tied to laboratory activities, so WFH 100% is not possible.
Yep, WFH ended in June. Thru the summer we were work-alone/curbside pickup only. That was the best - I worked one week per month, totally by myself, noon - 7pm. Other 3 weeks completely off but paid usual pay. Then we eased into longer hours, limited open to public in September. Now we are fully open, back to regular hours.
We've been tracking patron traffic, trying to convince the Board of Trustees that it's pointless to be open to 8pm. Most days it's dead after 5/6pm. But there's a couple of board members who *personally* want the option to pop in at 7:45 whenever they feel like it. I think one has actually done it, once.
We'd so much rather start earlier and close earlier, we've discovered after this summer. We do have a minimum # of hours we must be open weekly by state regulations, but we've learned the hard way that people will just walk in whatever time the door is unlocked, even if lights are off and we've *never* opened at that time. So there's definitely demand for earlier hours.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
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For me, both are true. I'll begrudgingly go back to the office 2-3 days/week, and WFH the rest of the time. But, international travel? Totally off the table. COVID has reminded me how amazing my life can be when I'm not constantly jet lagged, dreading a trip, on a trip, or planning a trip.
I was specifically thinking of you when I included the travel part.
:-) I'm expecting their will be a lag between our official "return to office" & when I'm required to travel internationally. I'll make the most out of that time.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
For my wife's work I assume it's about not being able to do everything they did pre-covid while at home, though the company has been functioning just fine. I guess it's just not wanting to give up certain things like in-person taped interviews
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Already am back in the office since late May
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Prior to the pandemic, company policy allowed for us to work one day per week from home. At the minimum, that is expected to increase to two days per week.
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I'm working part time but I will be retiring before they call us back to the office!
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survey does not account for the fact many employers have pivoted to telework/remotework/fancyname.
I work for a US gov agency. We have been told telework will always be an option and that coming to the office 5 days/week will no longer be required. In other words, go to the appropriate location as and when, as long as work is done. (This is after the current workplace restrictions are lifted.) Pretty much similar to what @chemistk wrote. Telework has eliminated the snow days option people would be paid for but couldn't work remotely. Now there's no such excuse, unless the snowstorm affected power/internet.
I go to the office 2-3 days per week, but sometimes those are 4-7 hours in the office. Get the rest done from home. I've heard that internally the agency (or at least our division) is happy because productivity has gone up.
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You need another option on the poll - "I have already been back in the office some or all of the time due to the nature of my job". (I did not respond to the poll).
I work in a Chemistry lab, the rest of our corporate staff has been WFH since March, but my group (and others) needs to be in the office most of the time. I WFH roughly 2 days a week, but the rest of the time, I'm in the lab. Approximately 70% of the work I do is tied to laboratory activities, so WFH 100% is not possible.
Also, some people never left work. Different job types, different local policies on shut downs, etc.
That was my experience. They sent us home for a month or so and then called us back. REALLY enjoyed WFH but my job is impossible to do WFH. Still COVID distancing as I am able at work. Less social basically.
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wow, that's a pretty even distribution of responses. 55% going back to the office and 45% not going back to the office.
I've added the part time option, sorry I didn't think of that.
Meanwhile I'm not getting any closer to deciding what to do. Maybe I should try it for a week and see how I feel...
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We never left. We work on hardware that sometimes requires us to go into the office. When we need to go in, we go in. This won't change.
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Work from home is impossible in my (medical) field.
That being said I love that people will be somewhat at home, it lessens the burden on the planet from commuting and opens up work opportunities to those who otherwise couldn't afford the COL. I couldn't imagine having to return full time because some corporate douchnozzle deemed it so, even if it was proven otherwise to be unnecessary. I think it would sour me a lot. I think part time is reasonable for check ins, and to have some bodies in an office to put out fires, but I suspect that the companies who put in inflexible rules will suffer attrition.
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Ive been working the entire time at my company's site of business since Jan 1, 2020. Like others above, there was no survey option for this scenario. As the incidence of COVID wanes I will continue to work at my employer's place of business. Part of my job requires direct monitoring and observation of activities essential to the conduct of the pharmacology/toxicology studies I direct. Even if I weren't required to be on site, I would still choose not to WFH.
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I picked "optional but will wfh" but that's not really accurate. I got hired in a FT remote gig, so there was never a plan that I'd go to an office. The closest one is 2.5 hours away by car. I'm not making a commute of that, that's for sure (and none of my team is there anyway).
I find I slightly miss the commute (by bike), don't miss the commute (by car; during the icy months) and miss remarkably little else. Talking to co-workers is kinda nice, catered lunches were kinda nice... doing my laundry is also kinda nice. Taking a walk in the park we border is also kinda nice.
I really enjoy being able to play music and not have to do it through headphones. I used to have a private office at the university, and I miss being able to just play music in all this open plan you get an assigned desk be thankful we didn't hotdesk you.
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It will help me to get in the office a couple days a week, but I'm hoping to continue working from home about half time.
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Rumor has it, no one is coming back to the office until "at least July"
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
"It's no fun to be at home all day, it's way more fun to spend time together with the team, make the same jokes we've made every day for 20 years and have lunch and after-work drinks together"
Which is not my idea of fun.
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I expect them to have everyone come back full time, but it's not a certainty. If they do require it, I don't know. We'll see. I really don't want to be back in the office everyday. I'm in a position where I could retire, and I probably *should* retire, maybe that will be what finally pushes me across the line.
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Spouse will be back at work full time. Theoretically he is home 20% now, but in reality he is usually only able to WFH 1 day every 2 week, not anywhere near twice a week. He's still not vaccinated.
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We were two in my office branch but my colleague quit. I could probably work from home if I wanted but I don’t want all office stuff in my home so now I work from home four days a week and drop in once a week to check the mail. We will move the office closer to me so I will strive to be there at least twice a week to get some human interaction as it is going to be in an office hotel. I probably would go full work from home if I had a bigger apartment or a house.
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At this stage I'm going back to the office regularly in late March (and have been attending one day a week since early Feb), probably a mix of WFH and in-office for the foreseeable future. At the moment offices are limited to 75% of capacity. I'm happy to have a day or two a week at home, but honestly I'm looking forward to returning.
My workplace is pretty flexible but I prefer the socialisation and working in an office forces me into a better routine 🙂
Was advised today that by the end of April full-time staff will be expected to attend the office at least three days a week (gradual phase in from late March).
I think I'll end up doing four days per week in the office and one day at home. I actually prefer working in the office, however the one day at home is useful.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
"It's no fun to be at home all day, it's way more fun to spend time together with the team, make the same jokes we've made every day for 20 years and have lunch and after-work drinks together"
Which is not my idea of fun.
Same. I even asked my wife who is a total extrovert and I was shocked she said she would love to never go back to the office. Granted, I'm sure a big part of that is her 75 min commute one way in traffic but still shocked me that she didn't even want to do 1 x per week in office.
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I work behind the scenes at a very busy public organization (public in the building every day) whose main functions have essentially been done over zoom, but it's not ideal and we need to get back to those interactions that are best done in person. We have been in the office 100% since June, with the exception of some hybrid scheduling when the cases started to spike.
I could do most of my work remotely, but as a general office policy, it would not be feasible. There is a small number of remote positions, and I may try to snag one in a couple of years when I am ready to downshift/go part time.
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I answered part-time, since my job sometimes involves access to specialized equipment in one of the tech labs. I've been able to manage over the past year by leaning on the few designated in-person folks on the team, but under normal circumstances it's much more efficient to have direct access when needed.
Technically I'm guessing about the part-time WfH, as we've gotten no updates about return plans. But even before the pandemic, there was some flexibility for people to WfH on occasion (and a few folks who are 100% remote). And I think/hope that the year(!) of mostly WfH has broken down most of the knee-jerk assumptions about in-person presence for team meetings, etc.
If nothing else, I plan to modify my commute. Pre-pandemic, I was braving peak rush hour traffic just to be in-person for some morning status meetings that can just as easily be done over the phone/Teams (we always have a bridge up for the aforementioned remote folks anyway). If/when office time is required, I intend to fight for my right to party call in to those meetings, and then drive in later in the morning or at lunch time when the traffic is lighter.
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I will be forced to go back, but I'm hoping we can talk my employer into allowing more WFH when it snows and other times for sustainability (which they like to talk a lot about, but we'll see if they mean it). Parking and traffic are a nightmare in my small town and some of us working from home part of the time would alleviate that a bit. I've already told my boss I'm not risking life, limb, and auto driving in when it snows now that we know WFH can work.
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It was announced yesterday that we will return to the office two days per week at the end of March.
I'm really going to miss working from home. 2020 was terrible for a lot of people, but it has probably been my best year personally, and working from home was a large part of that.
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My company moved to an open workspace in 2019. One of the biggest challenges that they're trying to figure out at our office is how do you let so many work from home & office at the same time when there are lots of zoom meetings and only 7 "huddle" rooms to take phone calls and video meetings. No one wants to try to do heads down working while there are a couple meetings going on around them. Everyone has headsets so I guess they'd only have to hear that one person's end of the meeting but still super distracting.
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I don't mind being at work if the customers would all contact me from their home. I prefer working from home but an empty office was pretty good too while it lasted. Yep, I'm pretty introverted.
This isn't realistic even a little bit.
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I prefer to work in the office, but I really don't like to commute. I have been working in the office 1 or 2 days per week just to get out of my house. Sometimes there are others in the office, sometimes not.
I am in an odd position where I don't have any peers in this office. When I accepted this position almost 4 years ago, there was 5 engineers in this office. Through normal attrition, engineers were replaced in an office in another state, and I am the sole remaining engineer. So even if everyone was required to be in the office, I would still be remote. My boss told me last month that post covid, he just wants me to make an appearance in the office 1 to 2 days per week.
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I'm working from home until they force me back in and then I'm going part time to take care of all the projects I was working on when we closed our office. As soon as that is all done and my time is used up I will be retiring!
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Wow, I am surprised at how many people are/recently were still WFH. We went back to the office 10 months ago. No major outbreak at work but sporadically one person or another is quarantined either as a precaution or with confirmed covid. Zero deaths out of 1500 people at HQ. Maybe helps that we work out of an old television factory with 25' high ceiling though.
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I didn’t vote. I am calendar year non-teaching faculty at a university. I have loved WFH this past year. It was not an option at all prior to that at all. I suspect they will make everyone go back in the fall with very little WFH, despite it working extremely well. Work got to be extraordinarily stressful this year because of budget cuts, but the lack of commuting and face to face meetings was blissful.
I am retiring as of March 31!
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We will largely go back but maintain the option to WFH when it makes sense. We are in engineering/manufacturing so there is a lot of stuff you have to be in person for- can't really figure out what's wrong with the machine or why a part failed a test without looking at it. We basically are going to allow people to wfh if their day allows it. But for many jobs if we had a failure at 10 am, you would need to drive in to investigate ASAP so folks will still need to live within a reasonable distance of the facilities. Still, that could allow folks more flexibility of exactly where they live (ie, a 1 hour commute may be acceptable of you only plan to go in once a week).
Some departments like customer service may stay all remote for folks who want it. Their entire job is taking phone calls. Same with IT, I haven't seen a single IT person in a year except for the few people who deal with hardware. So it's very department dependant.
The PP's points about open offices and a million Teams meetings is also interesting. We have a ton of manufacturing background noise so it's less of an issue for us. The bigger issue we are talking about is how to space people in cubes. Right now enough people are fully WFH that we are pretty spaced out. They don't want to have a full scale return until either virus is significantly lower, or most people have the vax. TBD how that goes.
Personally my ideal life is to wfh 2 days a week. I like the social interaction at work and I don't work efficiently when home FT. Additionally my team must be in person (they inspect physical parts, can't do that from home) so I feel bad staying home when they can't.
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My parent told me their employer has actually just sold their office! It's in a fancy location in town and the RE market is very hot right now, so the decision makes sense. People will be expected to keep working from home and if they really need to go to the office, they can use a desk in their other office in the city. Everyone is expected to work from home unless going into office is necessary, so they only need that one small office now for all their employees.
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My parent told me their employer has actually just sold their office! It's in a fancy location in town and the RE market is very hot right now, so the decision makes sense. People will be expected to keep working from home and if they really need to go to the office, they can use a desk in their other office in the city. Everyone is expected to work from home unless going into office is necessary, so they only need that one small office now for all their employees.
Yeah, I can't imagine why a company that has bee WFH for a year now and overall been productive would want to keep paying crazy leases. The annual savings has to be quite huge. Thought I read somewhere that some companies pay about $2k/mo in office space just to have space for an employee. A month x # of employees, yikes
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I marked "my employer says everyone is WFH forever" as the best fit even though it's not entirely accurate - my company is deciding who will be classified as in-office vs. remote based on department and role, and my department has been designated fully remote. I can still go in on occasion if I want, but no one is going back until probably Q4 at the earliest so this is all subject to change anyway.
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Wow, I am surprised at how many people are/recently were still WFH. We went back to the office 10 months ago. No major outbreak at work but sporadically one person or another is quarantined either as a precaution or with confirmed covid. Zero deaths out of 1500 people at HQ. Maybe helps that we work out of an old television factory with 25' high ceiling though.
Many of us have jobs where physical presence in the office isn't required to be productive. If that's the case for you, it would be pretty stupid to go to work. You're just putting yourself and others at risk for no gain.
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Wow, I am surprised at how many people are/recently were still WFH. We went back to the office 10 months ago. No major outbreak at work but sporadically one person or another is quarantined either as a precaution or with confirmed covid. Zero deaths out of 1500 people at HQ. Maybe helps that we work out of an old television factory with 25' high ceiling though.
Many of us have jobs where physical presence in the office isn't required to be productive. If that's the case for you, it would be pretty stupid to go to work. You're just putting yourself and others at risk for no gain.
However, going to the office is a condition of my employment and I did not feel like quitting my job. Could I theoretically do my job remotely? Yes, but in many cases, not as well. We hired a new department right before the shut-down a year ago and while it would be possible to run extant processed with trained people, that was not our situation. Now, average daily cases are down >90% in my state from the peak in November and I have more confidence the high ceilings/large volume of air (or generally high local humidity or who-knows-what other X-factor) means I am not terribly likely to get infected (or I already was).
Also, if I squint really hard at the age & health-dependent outcome data, I estimate that--if infected--my odds of dying are ~1/5,000. As far as endangering others go, I can easily interpret the general sentiment: here in MAGAstan no one is afraid of some dumb flu.
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I've always worked hard to maintain a clear separation between my professional life and my personal life.
Working from home has largely broken that down. Fortunately I have good e-mail/text habits so I don't respond to work stuff after hours. But just working at home breaks that barrier down.
It's left me feeling very confused about what should be next.
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My employer is open to working from home when possible. However, my direct boss isn't on board with that so I have only been allowed to do it 3 days during this whole pandemic. The inconsistency is fairly annoying. I'd like to have the option to work from home part time. My job would require me to be on site some of the time anyway but some time working at home would be nice.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
As an aside, I imagine that an old school manager whose primary skillset is "management by walking around," i.e. some combination of charisma and swagger, loses a lot of value in a remote world. Butts in seats = job security.
If WFH leads to management getting "right sized" or fearing it, there's going to be tremendous incentive for remaining managers to protect their positions.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
As an aside, I imagine that an old school manager whose primary skillset is "management by walking around," i.e. some combination of charisma and swagger, loses a lot of value in a remote world. Butts in seats = job security.
MBWA also has lots of benefits. Sometimes you can tease a problem statement out of a shy engineer sooner rather than later and get moving.
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I've worked the whole time, but on an odd rotational schedule to limit people in the office. I've really enjoyed the essentially part-time status. The rumor mill predicts we're back full-time next month. I really don't know how I am going to handle sitting in a cube for 8 hours a day.
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Wow, I am surprised at how many people are/recently were still WFH. We went back to the office 10 months ago. No major outbreak at work but sporadically one person or another is quarantined either as a precaution or with confirmed covid. Zero deaths out of 1500 people at HQ. Maybe helps that we work out of an old television factory with 25' high ceiling though.
Many of us have jobs where physical presence in the office isn't required to be productive. If that's the case for you, it would be pretty stupid to go to work. You're just putting yourself and others at risk for no gain.
However, going to the office is a condition of my employment and I did not feel like quitting my job. Could I theoretically do my job remotely? Yes, but in many cases, not as well. We hired a new department right before the shut-down a year ago and while it would be possible to run extant processed with trained people, that was not our situation. Now, average daily cases are down >90% in my state from the peak in November and I have more confidence the high ceilings/large volume of air (or generally high local humidity or who-knows-what other X-factor) means I am not terribly likely to get infected (or I already was).
Yeah . . . that's why I said the bolded part above. We did a company wide analysis of our performance metrics six months after the majority of people at our work were full time at home, and management found that overall productivity had increased 18%.
Hiring an entire new department is a pretty unusual situation that you're in.
Also, if I squint really hard at the age & health-dependent outcome data, I estimate that--if infected--my odds of dying are ~1/5,000. As far as endangering others go, I can easily interpret the general sentiment: here in MAGAstan no one is afraid of some dumb flu.
I'm young and healthy. Risk of dying hasn't really been my concern with covid. The risk of transmitting the disease to others (even if they're people I disagree with who are acting in a stupid way) would make me feel pretty bad though. Especially because they're likely to then go and infect others too. I realize that a huge portion of the US simply gave up from the start, but in most other countries (with a few notable exceptions - Brazil for example) there has been at least some effort to pull together and protect each other. It's sad that this concept is so strange to you.
Then there's also the personal risk of having long term symptoms like reduced lung capacity, fatigue, heart problems, etc. Covid long-haulers appear to be possible across all age groups. That would sure suck . . . and saying "I didn't die, just have this long term health problem" wouldn't be much consolation.
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My boss just told us that it will be "at least several more months, depending on several factors" before we will be required to return to the office (we are currently allowed to but discouraged from going into the office). I wish they would give us some more specifics, but I'll take it.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
Part of it may be that some employers won't be on the same page with their employees as to whether they've been functioning well... we definitely have team members who have been noticeably less effective WFH (not with kids at home, for what its worth) although I think some of them would disagree. And I'd say too that even what functions well in the relatively short-term may not work as well in the long-term. If (arguably) creativity and the building of team cohesion take a hit with remote teams, we can run off what we built in the office for a while before we feel the effect, but it may eventually catch up to us.
(To be clear, I know there are those who truly perform at least as well from home; I just think that number is much smaller than the number currently WFH.)
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Wow, I am surprised at how many people are/recently were still WFH. We went back to the office 10 months ago. No major outbreak at work but sporadically one person or another is quarantined either as a precaution or with confirmed covid. Zero deaths out of 1500 people at HQ. Maybe helps that we work out of an old television factory with 25' high ceiling though.
Many of us have jobs where physical presence in the office isn't required to be productive. If that's the case for you, it would be pretty stupid to go to work. You're just putting yourself and others at risk for no gain.
However, going to the office is a condition of my employment and I did not feel like quitting my job. Could I theoretically do my job remotely? Yes, but in many cases, not as well. We hired a new department right before the shut-down a year ago and while it would be possible to run extant processed with trained people, that was not our situation. Now, average daily cases are down >90% in my state from the peak in November and I have more confidence the high ceilings/large volume of air (or generally high local humidity or who-knows-what other X-factor) means I am not terribly likely to get infected (or I already was).
Yeah . . . that's why I said the bolded part above. We did a company wide analysis of our performance metrics six months after the majority of people at our work were full time at home, and management found that overall productivity had increased 18%.
Hiring an entire new department is a pretty unusual situation that you're in.
Also, if I squint really hard at the age & health-dependent outcome data, I estimate that--if infected--my odds of dying are ~1/5,000. As far as endangering others go, I can easily interpret the general sentiment: here in MAGAstan no one is afraid of some dumb flu.
I'm young and healthy. Risk of dying hasn't really been my concern with covid. The risk of transmitting the disease to others (even if they're people I disagree with who are acting in a stupid way) would make me feel pretty bad though. Especially because they're likely to then go and infect others too. I realize that a huge portion of the US simply gave up from the start, but in most other countries (with a few notable exceptions - Brazil for example) there has been at least some effort to pull together and protect each other. It's sad that this concept is so strange to you.
Then there's also the personal risk of having long term symptoms like reduced lung capacity, fatigue, heart problems, etc. Covid long-haulers appear to be possible across all age groups. That would sure suck . . . and saying "I didn't die, just have this long term health problem" wouldn't be much consolation.
I certainly don't want to get it (I used to have severe hypochondria) even if the risk is small. I would feel even worse transmitting it to someone else so I carefully monitor for any vague signs of becoming sick. Aside from 2 mandatory work dinners, I haven't been in an indoor restaurant in over a year and avoid other indoor situations with other people to the extent practicable. At work I am one of the only people who follows the mask policy at all times and I avoid the crowded cafeteria since I don't each lunch.
I understand the concept completely; my point about MAGAstan is that hardly anyone else here cares, so compared to myself, almost everyone is assuming higher risks for themselves and imposing higher risks on others. A lot of people here don't want to be vaccinated either. I have tried to get them to articulate why but they are incapable of giving one coherent reason. My best guess in understanding their ungrammatical grunts is something like "I'm not afraid of getting it so I won't bother".
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
Our CEO has talked about "studies" that "prove" that WfH reduces productivity. Probably something he read in a business magazine, and who knows how long ago.
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I've always worked hard to maintain a clear separation between my professional life and my personal life.
Working from home has largely broken that down. Fortunately I have good e-mail/text habits so I don't respond to work stuff after hours. But just working at home breaks that barrier down.
It's left me feeling very confused about what should be next.
One thing I've done which has helped immensely (and I've told other people who have equally felt so) is to have a dedicated work area, where you only do work.
My work desk is used almost exclusively for work. Probably 99% of the time I'm on my desk it's for work. Very occasional video calls with friends because it's a standing deks.
If you can do this, it helps immensely. If your work area is the kitchen table/counter you will have a much harder time with this.
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For companies that have continued to function well and the workers have been 100% WFH, what is the justification your employers give for requiring workers to return to the office after the pandemic?
Besides "that's the way we've always done it".
Part of it may be that some employers won't be on the same page with their employees as to whether they've been functioning well... we definitely have team members who have been noticeably less effective WFH (not with kids at home, for what its worth) although I think some of them would disagree. And I'd say too that even what functions well in the relatively short-term may not work as well in the long-term. If (arguably) creativity and the building of team cohesion take a hit with remote teams, we can run off what we built in the office for a while before we feel the effect, but it may eventually catch up to us.
(To be clear, I know there are those who truly perform at least as well from home; I just think that number is much smaller than the number currently WFH.)
Yes, I saw a survey reported in the NYT today that 50% people currently WFH would like to stay WFH indefinitely. I take that number to mean that 50% feel it works well for them personally, not necessarily that it works well for their employer. I don't doubt that there are aligned incentives in some businesses, or even entire fields, but I'm not convinced it's the rule.
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I've always worked hard to maintain a clear separation between my professional life and my personal life.
Working from home has largely broken that down. Fortunately I have good e-mail/text habits so I don't respond to work stuff after hours. But just working at home breaks that barrier down.
It's left me feeling very confused about what should be next.
One thing I've done which has helped immensely (and I've told other people who have equally felt so) is to have a dedicated work area, where you only do work.
My work desk is used almost exclusively for work. Probably 99% of the time I'm on my desk it's for work. Very occasional video calls with friends because it's a standing deks.
If you can do this, it helps immensely. If your work area is the kitchen table/counter you will have a much harder time with this.
I have a "clean desk" policy. At approximately 0830 every morning I put my laptop on my desk, connect it up to the big monitor and start work. At approximately 1630 every afternoon, the laptop goes off and I put it away for the next day. No hint of work remains on the desk after quitting time. Except for the spare cable to the monitor (which is too much trouble to disconnect every day), but it's tucked away.
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I've always worked hard to maintain a clear separation between my professional life and my personal life.
Working from home has largely broken that down. Fortunately I have good e-mail/text habits so I don't respond to work stuff after hours. But just working at home breaks that barrier down.
It's left me feeling very confused about what should be next.
One thing I've done which has helped immensely (and I've told other people who have equally felt so) is to have a dedicated work area, where you only do work.
My work desk is used almost exclusively for work. Probably 99% of the time I'm on my desk it's for work. Very occasional video calls with friends because it's a standing deks.
If you can do this, it helps immensely. If your work area is the kitchen table/counter you will have a much harder time with this.
I have a "clean desk" policy. At approximately 0830 every morning I put my laptop on my desk, connect it up to the big monitor and start work. At approximately 1630 every afternoon, the laptop goes off and I put it away for the next day. No hint of work remains on the desk after quitting time. Except for the spare cable to the monitor (which is too much trouble to disconnect every day), but it's tucked away.
I also have a clean desk policy. I don’t have specific times though.
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I was WFH 2 days per week before Covid hit, though I also had travel regularly as part of my job. Now I've been full-time WFH for about a year with very rarely travel required (1 week per 3-5 months instead of ~50% of the time). The CEO has publicly expressed support for letting workers continue to work from home. My department manager, however, is apparently (from what I've heard from friends in management positions) pushing to get her entire department back in the office ASAP. Well, let me rephrase that, only her underlings. She and another manager who worked in a remote office no longer even have an office to go to near their home (the remote office was permanently shut down last year) so they only come to the corporate headquarters a few times per year and otherwise WFH full-time.
I'm about 3 years from my FIRE target at the current pace, and have passive income that covers more than 1/2 my expenses without needing to touch investments (will cover 80% of my expenses in a few years when the house is paid off). If they insist I come back to the office I'll probably counter with my resignation as I can't see myself going back to commuting in Atlanta traffic after this year of having so much more free time and such lower levels of stress simply by elimination that hassle from my life. I could get a job making 30% of my current salary locally, go become a diving instructor in some low cost area of the world, etc. and still reach my current FIRE target within 5 years or so without having to endure that soul-sucking waste of time that is commuting for the sake of commuting.
I may not yet have FIRE money, but I certainly have FU money and can then take my time choosing what option for the future appeals the most to me.