Anyone ever visit a 3rd world area?

[GardenFun]

See article:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/from-a-rwandan-dump-to-the-halls-of-harvard/ar-BBaFP01

In college, I had the fortunate opportunity to go to Jamaica for a track meet.  We weren't in the pretty, touristy part, we were in Kingston (home of the only track in the entire country).  It was the first time I had seen wide-spread 3rd world living conditions, particularly trenchtown.  Absolutely blew my mind and was one of the foundational life events that pushed consumerism down and nourished the desire to help others.  When I read this article, one line stuck out:

He was ...disturbed to find homeless beggars in a nation otherwise so wealthy that “you can’t tell who is rich and who isn’t.” 

[GuitarStv]

Does Detroit count?

[GardenFun]

Does Detroit count?

Funny part is that I grew up about 45 minutes north of Detroit, so you think I would have been prepared! 

[VirginiaBob]

Been to Afghanistan and the Philippines.

[GardenFun]

Been to Afghanistan and the Philippines.

Did it have any impact on you?  Not saying it had to be anything monumental, just curious if it caused any particular change.

For me, I actively hunted out a charity known for its work in 3rd world countries and have been giving to them ever since.  Also stepped up work for local food pantries and homeless shelters.   

[Elisabeth]

I think so.

But I am not sure what counts as "third world" anymore since the USSR doesn't exist. Is it simply anyone non-NATO member? Are you asking simply about poverty, or political alignment?

I saw lots of poverty in Afghanistan, Belize, Botswana, Honduras, parts of Mexico, the part of Russia I visited, and places all over Eastern Europe, especially in Roma villages.

The poverty isn't the same in each of these places. There are happy poor people, miserable poor people, and people who are poor because they refuse to assimilate - not in language or religious ways, but cultural values like education. The Roma in eastern Europe live in squalor, and instead of school they teach their children to pick pockets, and send them out to steal.

I have done lots of local volunteer work. After researching a number of popular charities and realizing how they use donations, I stopped giving money. I have volunteered with Big Brothers Big Sisters and coached Girls on the Run. I think working with children is where I can make the biggest difference. I used to volunteer in a food bank and the recipients were incredibly rude, angry, demanding, and picky. Certain times of the year we had huge donations of great produce, and they just asked for packaged stuff filled with chemicals instead. It totally degraded my desire to help them.

After seeing happy pants-less children with loving families in Bostwana, I realized that it comes down to values and work ethic. I am happy to help people who want to improve their lives. I am happy to help children who don't know how to improve their lives. The rest.. I definitely fall short in compassion. So I stick with the works by which I feel I can improve the community.

[GardenFun]

Is it simply anyone non-NATO member? Are you asking simply about poverty, or political alignment?

The poverty isn't the same in each of these places. There are happy poor people, miserable poor people, and people who are poor because they refuse to assimilate - not in language or religious ways, but cultural values like education. The Roma in eastern Europe live in squalor, and instead of school they teach their children to pick pockets, and send them out to steal.

It is more a comparison of basic poverty.  Jamaica was my only up-close experience.  Initial reaction there was "how do you ever get out of that cycle"?  In comparison, Detroit contains some of the same environmental forces that can still make or break a situation, but I feel there is more opportunity in Detroit to cover needs and some wants (ability to work, public schools, federal programs, etc.).  That's why the comment "you can't tell who is or isn't rich" in the original post brought up that memory.

I hope this isn't sounding like some "go sell everything and help others" comment.  Was only wondering if having a close-up view of significant poverty resulted in any life changes.   

[Gone Fishing]

I was in Haiti in '98 on a mission trip.  What struck me was how much better off the rural poor appeared to be versus the urban poor.  It certainly stuck with me.  I wouldn't say it was the single contributer, but certainly a part of my experience that led to our current "chosen" charity, Heifer International.   

[VirginiaBob]

I don't know if it changed me too much since I'm not really too emotional personality wise, more logical I guess.  I swear I'm a robot sometimes.  When I see people in poverty, I'm in "solve the problem mode" versus, "come here, give me hug, and lets cry together" mode.  Basically, what can I do with the resources I have at this time to help you in a way that is actually useful. 

[GrayGhost]

I've been to my motherland several times, most recently in March of this year. The poverty there is really difficult to put into words, but when you're actually there, viewing it, you kind of learn to block it out or ignore it. How else can you cope with it, after all? And then there's the blatant social hierarchy and classism, which actually makes me a bit angry to think about.

As for how to help the poor in that country, I'm not sure. A good start would be to clean up the blatant corruption and looting that's rampant in that government. It doesn't make much sense to hand someone a few banknotes when they're not allowed to run their own business by labyrinthine regulations enforced by cops/officials who need to be bribed to use their brains.

Fortunately, things are getting a lot better over there, and I think the day when my motherland moves out of developing country status is not far off.

[Kingomri]

I've been to the Dominican Republic a few times - helped to build a couple of houses for families down there. There was poverty, but the mission that we were there with ran a school and had constructed a healthcare clinic, a plant to produce clean and cheap water, and backup generators to provide light when the unreliable utilities went out, as they frequently did. That, combined with the many houses they had worked to build, you could tell had done a lot to lift up the area. It's great to see people who want to do good and produce really lasting, systemic change in a community. I donated some to them and co-sponsored a child to go to school for a year, and a friend of mine with whom I went on the trip actually moved to the DR to work with the organization for several years. Overall, the people in the area are very happy and incredibly hospitable, although of course everyone has burdens that you don't necessarily see when you're just visiting for a week.

I also visited an orphanage in Mexico for a week. The kids were awesome (and loved to have individual attention from people), but you could tell the people who worked to provide for the kids were a bit overwhelmed. We took a side trip to a shanty-town - that was probably the most eye-opening experience of poverty I have ever had. Rows of homes just haphazardly assembled from cardboard and scraps of metal. We visited a family with a disabled son who was wheelchair-bound.

[CabinetGuy]

Tijuana, Mexico when I was 11 years old.  Really eye opening to see homeless kids selling chicklets (gum) along sidewalks.  Did it change me? Maybe.  I will say that I learned more about haggling over prices in a week (over fireworks, no less) than all my years in the States.

[Scandium]

Do you mean a developing country? "3rd world" is a cold war term and not very specific (Sweden was 3rd world..).

I've been to China and tanzania, both considered developing I believe, but extremely different. Much of Beijing could have fit in in "the west"

[arebelspy]

But I am not sure what counts as "third world" anymore since the USSR doesn't exist. Is it simply anyone non-NATO member? Are you asking simply about poverty, or political alignment?

Do you mean a developing country? "3rd world" is a cold war term and not very specific (Sweden was 3rd world..).

Did you two just step out from a cold war bunker that you've been in for the last 3 decades?  ;)

From Wikipedia on third world:

Over the last few decades, the term Third World has been used interchangeably with the least developed countries, Global South and developing countries to describe poorer countries that have struggled to attain steady economic development, a term that often includes "Second World" countries like Laos.

It's less favored now as a potentially not politically correct term, so we get things like "developing country," but you should still be able to understand that typically in 2014, when someone refers to the third world, they mean an impoverished country, they don't mean a country that wasn't allied with the USA or the USSR.  :)

[Roots&Wings]

Yes, exchange programs in Ecuador and Nicaragua back in my school days.  The poverty was quite distressing, although I was also stuck by how many people I met were still happy in the face of such poverty. 

Made me learn more about what actually provides happiness, and microlend through Kiva to try to help people in developing countries access credit to improve their lives.

[Overseas Stache]

Yes. I moved from the States to Zambia when I was 10 and I didn't move back to the states until I was 18. I think it had a profound impact on me a as person and how I relate to others. One thing the especially sticks out to me was when I was 16 I was helping the World Food Program deliver corn because the Country was under a sever drought and it caused a Famine. I literally saw people starving to death and it was so sad to know that I was there to help but the corn wasn't going to be delivered for another month, some of the people would likely not make it till then. However seeing how many Non-profit organizations run also made me very cynical about donating to to them. Many of the big name NGO's use the famine to make a bunch of money and then would just dump the corn instead of taking the time and the effort to make sure it went to the families in need.

That being said even though Zambia is a third world country the people are so amazingly friendly and generous.  It really is a wonderful place to visit and live.

Anyways after living in the states for a couple of years after college, my wife and two daughters now live in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And work at a small non-profit Hospital. If any of you are in Lubumbashi be sure to pass by and say hi :).

[BlueMR2]

Does Detroit count?

Indeed.  Ditto for Chicago.  Both have small exclusive expensive enclaves surrounded by massive 3rd world 'hoods.  Been to both, don't intend to ever return to either.

[GardenFun]

Wow - lots of interesting memories and comments.  Hope I didn't offend anyone with the 3rd world vs. developing countries but it did result in a surprisingly interesting history lesson - Thanks arebelspy and Scandium! 

In regards to the charities that are not very charitable, is there a list/agency who goes through and provides an unbiased review or ranking of charities?  Don't want to be donating to one that is not helpful....

[Albert]

How poor it has to be to qualify as 3rd world area? I think Georgia is the poorest country I've been to. No visibly destitute people there, though.

[Nords]

Anyone ever visit a 3rd world area?

In the U.S. Navy we call those "liberty ports".

[davisgang90]

Anyone ever visit a 3rd world area?

In the U.S. Navy we call those "liberty ports".

Exactly,  I was in Mombasa Kenya over Thanksgiving on a deployment and I've never been more thankful of being a U.S. Citizen.

[daverobev]

Yeah, we did a trip that included India, Bangladesh, and Nepal.

Not war torn places, 'functional', right? Not like Africa.... Very interesting. We saw tea plantation workers, tribal villagers, women learning to sew, microcredit... Litter all over the beautiful mountains in Nepal... All sorts.

It does make me stop and think, regularly.

[Melody]

The least devloped countries I have been to are cuba and east timor (predominantly argricultural industires, low take up of technology) but I didn't see any extreme poverty there. I saw more extreme poverty (destitute,  homeless, lack of healthcare, food etc) in india and even the united states despite this being high technology,  diverse economy,  ubanised countries. So difficult to compare. I have also visited a bunch of "second world" places like indonesia and vietnam. To me social structures and government policies onwealth distribution can have more impact on percieved poverty than gdp. (Not a commie here but it was something to think about). Visitng other first world countries also made me realise how much better other people are with the family structure than australians (eg singapore).

[brooklynmoney]

Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Vietnam. Enjoyed visiting them all and found most parts amazingly beautiful and the people lovely. I might move to Nicaragua/buy property there someday. It's very poor, but does not feel dangerous (at least in my experience).

[C. K.]

GardenFun,

The best way that I've found to determine whether a charitable organization is worth your support is to work with them extensively. Give your time first, then your money.

Many of the people who run them, however, have more compassion than financial acumen, and the people who are great with money or business strategy become frustrated easily and leave. So be aware that for many non-profits there will be waste.

You might not find the perfect place for your money and interests already in existence, but you can create it.

1. Give directly to a person you know personally in that poverty-stricken area overseas.

2. Teach a poor kid in your own area what you know. S/he will become one more productive citizen who can continue your charitable bent because s/he now has the tools to help others.

3. Become like the founders of Untours or the $25,000 straw hat guy, Brent Black, and create your own charity within your business model.
 

[El Gringo]

I work in international development, so I've been to a bunch of developing countries. :) Plus, they're the most fun to travel through, as well. I guess it depends what you want to classify as "developing" (more appropriate term in the post-Soviet context we now live in, as an early poster mentioned), but I've been to the following:

Africa:
-South Sudan
-Rwanda
-Uganda
-Kenya
-Ethiopia
-Sierra Leone

Latin America:
-Peru
-Dominican Republic
-Mexico
-Haiti

Asia:
-Vietnam
-Thailand
-Cambodia

[Freedom2016]

Yes. I've spent time in a number of developing/Third World countries and have seen stunning poverty. My first visit to Mexicali on a high school missions trip was profoundly impactful. Since then I've seen lots of different "kinds" of poverty - from the slums of Calcutta to poor agricultural areas of francophone Cameroon to cut-off-from-the-west-Iran.

My reactions to seeing some pretty squalid conditions in which millions of people live have ranged from: deep depression, to inspiration to help, to despair at inability to help enough, to gratitude for my own blessings, to trying to sort out where my own responsibilities lie, to blocking it all out.

Seeing so much truly terrible human suffering also dismantled the religious faith of my childhood, but that's a whole other story.

[Apples]

I went to Costa Rica on a study abroad.  It was a sustainable agriculture trip, and we spent time at EARTH University, then across the country to a final day on the pretty beaches on the west coast.  While at the main campus of EARTH, we met a lot of people who come from countries that just function so differently from my experience here.  They were learning how to grow foods with certain limited inputs so they could go teach people so fewer people would starve to death.  We learned how to grow food on the edge of the tropical forest (all different kinds of it) because sustainable production of food there was difficult.  We stayed with families in houses with cement floors and tin walls/roofs; and an outdoor kitchen where if it rained you got wet.  The stove had a fire in it just under the cooking area-it was weird to see.  The family gets paid to have us with them, and they also have a few cows, chicken, and tilapia to trade with neighbors.  Cars don't exist.  We walked 1.5 miles downhill to a tiny store and school, then back up a 1.5 mile hill to their house with bags of food.  It was eye-opening.

[TheGadfly]

I lived in a rural village in Mali for 2 years while in Peace Corps.  Mali is one of the poorest nations in the world and the farmers I lived with survive on an income about equal to one dollar per day.  It sounds dire (and it is) but these people are extremely resourceful and, for all of the challenges they endure, they live full and rewarding lives.  And while there were aspects of Malian culture that I could not accept (genital mutilation, ingrained misogyny, etc.), I found their sense of community and industriousness to be totally inspiring.   

However, Mali's brand of poverty is different from that of Detroit--where I live now--and is difficult to compare.  While Malians suffer from malnutrition, curable disease and outright starvation, the poorest Detroiters struggle against drug addiction, rampant crime, police discrimination (although this one isn't restricted to the poor) and a constant threat of displacement.  The type of poverty here in the global north almost seems more hopeless because the robust communal ties I observed in Mali are almost non-existent in places like Detroit, where people lack a strong network of supportive friendships to help them get by. 

[BlueHouse]

Sub-saharan Africa:
South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Swaziland, Lesotho.

Aside from all the "expected poverty", one thing that had an impact was this:
I worked on a reserve for a few months where the founder had given up everything he owned and all future earning potential to donate all his time and energy to something he believed in strongly.  Once I found out that he had given up his job at a university and sold his property to pay to get his foundation started, I started worrying about his future.  I finally asked the land owner what this guy's future held for him.  He really didn't understand my American perspective (worrying about retirement).  I finally got blunt and said "what will happen when 'Alfred' is too old to work?"  The answer:  "Die?" 
He said it like I was a moron, with no understanding that death is the great equalizer and that no amount of money changes that.  When I returned to the States, I did live my life differently, wanted to live and enjoy each day to its fullest, and spent the next 6 months working a job that was less demanding mentally and allowed me to leave work behind when I left.  After 6 months, I said Fuck that, manual labor is hard.  I'd rather work fewer years but more stressful and finish before I drop dead in a field somewhere.

[Letj]

Sub-saharan Africa:
South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Swaziland, Lesotho.

Aside from all the "expected poverty", one thing that had an impact was this:
I worked on a reserve for a few months where the founder had given up everything he owned and all future earning potential to donate all his time and energy to something he believed in strongly.  Once I found out that he had given up his job at a university and sold his property to pay to get his foundation started, I started worrying about his future.  I finally asked the land owner what this guy's future held for him.  He really didn't understand my American perspective (worrying about retirement).  I finally got blunt and said "what will happen when 'Alfred' is too old to work?"  The answer:  "Die?" 
He said it like I was a moron, with no understanding that death is the great equalizer and that no amount of money changes that.  When I returned to the States, I did live my life differently, wanted to live and enjoy each day to its fullest, and spent the next 6 months working a job that was less demanding mentally and allowed me to leave work behind when I left.  After 6 months, I said Fuck that, manual labor is hard.  I'd rather work fewer years but more stressful and finish before I drop dead in a field somewhere.

Insightful post. It's exactly my experience living in a developing country.  Poverty is much easier to endure when life is lived in a communal way. The expectation in developing countries is much lower than in the materialistic United States, making poverty very hard to endure in the US. Despite high levels of poverty, people in developing countries often seem so happy.

[iris lily]

Thailand, 25 years ago, where I overheard an American tourist lamenting the state of the cats at the Buddhist temples. "They are so skinny!" she complained. Lady, the people are skinny, too. I saw leprosy beggers there. We met a fair number of English speaking people on the street there who told us they had been to the  U,S, and while they loved it, they were glad to be home. (Clearly these were not poor people.)

On that same trip we took a boat to some island off Hong Kong and I saw tarp dwellings, 10' x 10' where families lived.

On that trip I learned that American culture is tops, people LOVE all kinds of things from America, BUT they love their own way of wife and prefer that.

Oh yeah, also I stayed in Antiqua where my aunt and uncle had a house. Lots of poverty there.

I guess the effect is that I always remember how lucky I am to be born in the U.S. And frankly, our trips since then have been to squeaky clean and rich countries like Switzerland, Scotland, England. I keep thinking that we need to venture to a more gritty place for our next rip, I am tiring of white bread destinations.


 

[belgiandude]

Yes, my hobby is visiting developing countries. (I lost the count, but somewhere between 50 and 75 or so).

One of the things that stand out, is that people from these countries share much more than Westerners.
- I hitchhiked from Helsinki via Russia, Ukraine, and the Balkan to Greece. I rarely had to pay for meals, places to stay, or transport, even if I insisted.
- I did the same thing in China, Colombia, Brazil, and Argentina
- I attended a wedding and other family events
- I spent many evenings/days living and talking with locals

Belarus, Kosovo, and Moldova were the most interesting.


However, I have never seen a place with more homeless people than the US.
Additionally, poor people in the US have cars.

[sheepstache]

Really interesting variety of experiences on this thread. Thanks.

[Melody]

Funny some of the ones listed here (Ukraine, Russia, Argentina) didn't rate as developing for me... So interesting perspectives. I didn't see either a shortage of technology or extreme poverty on either country (although I was only in the big cities). I saw less hobos in all of these countries combined than on the walk between the mini and the hostel my first day in San Francisco...

[Melody]

Mini=muni

[bigalsmith101]

I once took a motorcycle trip that lasted 8 months, from Seattle to Buenoes Aires. I rode through Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicargua, Costa Rica, and Panama. Then Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia and Argentina.

The unique situation I found myself in, was that I was riding a $5k motorcycle, with $1,000 worth of motorcycle gear (jacket, pants, helmet, boots, gloves), and stood out from nearly all of the people that I met. Not only was I "rich", but I also rode an "awesome" 650cc motorcycle. The typical bike is 150cc-200cc and the guys were always impressed with my bike. They wanted to know how much it cost. How much was my helmet. How much for the visas to cross the borders. Etc. I'm also 6'6", and white. So I stick out like a sore thumb when standing around 5'8" brown skinned Latin American guys.

I spent some time with a couple of local motorcycle travelers in Bolivia. They were wealthy by all terms. Their cleaning lady walked to work for 45 minutes. They drove $100k mercedes. They spent thousands on skydiving trips to Paraquay. The cleaning lady didn't make that much money in a year.

I had to take all of these inputs, in stride. I was on a journey that wasn't going to stop until I reached the end 8 months from the start date. I didn't get on a plane and fly home until the last day, versus a 1-2 weeks later like many travelers. So it became a way of life for me, and it was very introspective to say the least. 

[Daisy]

I wonce took a motorcycle trip that lasted 8 months, from Seattle to Buenoes Aires. I rode through Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicargua, Costa Rica, and Panama. Then Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia and Argentina.

The unique situation I found myself in, was that I was riding a $5k motorcycle, with $1,000 worth of motorcycle gear (jacket, pants, helmet, boots, gloves), and stood out from nearly all of the people that I met. Not only was I "rich", but I also rode an "awesome" 650cc motorcycle. The typical bike is 150cc-200cc and the guys were always impressed with my bike. They wanted to know how much it cost. How much was my helmet. How much for the visas to cross the borders. Etc. I'm also 6'6", and white. So I stick out like a sore thumb when standing around 5'8" brown skinned Latin American guys.

I spent some time with a couple of local motorcycle travelers in Bolivia. They were wealthy by all terms. Their cleaning lady walked to work for 45 minutes. They drove $100k mercedes. They spent thousands on skydiving trips to Paraquay. The cleaning lady didn't make that much money in a year.

I had to take all of these inputs, in stride. I was on a journey that wasn't going to stop until I reached the end 8 months from the start date. I didn't get on a plane and fly home until the last day, versus a 1-2 weeks later like many travelers. So it became a way of life for me, and it was very introspective to say the least.

Stop it!! You are giving me a massive jealousy attack :-)! I've done lots of long multi-month MC camping trips on a little 550 Yamaha but only in North America and you are living my dream - although now I'd like to do that by bicycle. Nicely done.

Good job. It's not easy to get Spartana jealous. She's the one that gets everyone else jealous - with her awesome life and amount of time FIRE'd.

As far as third world countries visited - I've seen some poverty in Latin America. Also visited a small village in Fiji, that although materialistically seemed poor, was actually a very fun place to hang out.

I live in South Florida which is full of immigrants from many places (including my family), so I also hear stories and know the poverty that exists throughout the world. I am appreciative of the blessings in my life and feel obligated to share my wealth with those in need.

[MsRichLife]

Yes. I've travelled quite a lot of the world, including much of Asia, North Africa, Central America, Eastern Europe. The most confronting country I've been to would definitely be India.

For me, I truly feel 'alive' whilst travelling in these countries. It's not sanitised. It's dirty, and messy and corrupt and raw. People are still people though. Kids still find ways to be happy and play a game of kick the can whilst living in the middle of the city's dump. My memories of these places make it certain that I never take for granted the absolute luxury that my life is.

[Daisy]

Hey Daisy I worked on the Muriel Boat Lift when I was a very young un (18?) in the CG. Was your parent's/relatives part of that?

No, they came way before that. But I was about 10-11 years old at the time and my mom had the Spanish language radio on during that time (well ALWAYS) and they would read out the names of people landing on shore so that if any family members in the US heard their names they could go pick them up. They would spend 24 hours in the day reading out the names. It was a large wave of people that came at the same time. Wild times!

I know others that came as children and adults to the US during that time.

[Daisy]

Hey Daisy I worked on the Muriel Boat Lift when I was a very young un (18?) in the CG. Was your parent's/relatives part of that?

No, they came way before that. But I was about 10-11 years old at the time and my mom had the Spanish language radio on during that time (well ALWAYS) and they would read out the names of people landing on shore so that if any family members in the US heard their names they could go pick them up. They would spend 24 hours in the day reading out the names. It was a large wave of people that came at the same time. Wild times!

I know others that came as children and adults to the US during that time.

Yeah it was wild times for sure. Our patrol boat planted itself off Cuba and just escorted or took onboard hundreds if not thousands of people in my 6 months down there. Lots of tiny newborn babies and even a birth or 2 on board. Lots of Haitians and other's from South America doing the transit at that same time (but we generally repatriated them back to their home country) as well as contraband (drugs, weapons, people) runners taking advantage of us being too busy elsewhere to deal with them.

OK sorry for getting OT. Back to your regularly scheduled posts!

Yeah, it just blows my mind what people would go through in order to leave a place and try to make it to the US.

A coworker/friend of mine's mother was trying not to get pregnant so that she could leave Cuba and come to the US. Well, it took such a long time she ended up having a baby (my friend) in Cuba and then they came to the US when she was 6 years old. She had her when she was older waiting for her chance to leave.

I think Arebelspy's post above about dignity is very important and I hadn't thought of it in that way before. You have to wonder why people leave such beautiful places when they apparently seem so happy. People yearn for the freedom to choose their way in life and have freedom of thought and association that are lacking in other places.

The US has its faults, but people wouldn't be jumping on rickety rafts from the Caribbean or stuffing themselves in shipping containers from some parts of Asia if they were not looking for a better life. I'm not that far removed from it (although I was US born), and it still blows my mind and I can't totally wrap my head around the desperation some may feel.

[resy]

I was born in one and I credit it for my perspective about money. Seeing kids of all ages living in the streets and exposed to danger made me feel disgusted at most status/luxury goods. I also tend to feel less empathy for the average consumer/person; can be a bit isolating as I am a 29 year old woman and my peers have very different priorities.

[Daisy]

Hey Daisy I worked on the Muriel Boat Lift when I was a very young un (18?) in the CG. Was your parent's/relatives part of that?

No, they came way before that. But I was about 10-11 years old at the time and my mom had the Spanish language radio on during that time (well ALWAYS) and they would read out the names of people landing on shore so that if any family members in the US heard their names they could go pick them up. They would spend 24 hours in the day reading out the names. It was a large wave of people that came at the same time. Wild times!

I know others that came as children and adults to the US during that time.

Yeah it was wild times for sure. Our patrol boat planted itself off Cuba and just escorted or took onboard hundreds if not thousands of people in my 6 months down there. Lots of tiny newborn babies and even a birth or 2 on board. Lots of Haitians and other's from South America doing the transit at that same time (but we generally repatriated them back to their home country) as well as contraband (drugs, weapons, people) runners taking advantage of us being too busy elsewhere to deal with them.

OK sorry for getting OT. Back to your regularly scheduled posts!

Yeah, it just blows my mind what people would go through in order to leave a place and try to make it to the US.

A coworker/friend of mine's mother was trying not to get pregnant so that she could leave Cuba and come to the US. Well, it took such a long time she ended up having a baby (my friend) in Cuba and then they came to the US when she was 6 years old. She had her when she was older waiting for her chance to leave.

I think Arebelspy's post above about dignity is very important and I hadn't thought of it in that way before. You have to wonder why people leave such beautiful places when they apparently seem so happy. People yearn for the freedom to choose their way in life and have freedom of thought and association that are lacking in other places.

The US has its faults, but people wouldn't be jumping on rickety rafts from the Caribbean or stuffing themselves in shipping containers from some parts of Asia if they were not looking for a better life. I'm not that far removed from it (although I was US born), and it still blows my mind and I can't totally wrap my head around the desperation some may feel.

Yeah I agree. I've dealt with those kinds of situations often when in the CG and have seen some things that people desperate to get to the US go thru that are absolutely awful and often have gruesome endings. Truly makes you appreciate what we take for granted here each and everyday no matter how bad it is. Definitely changes your POV when you see first hand the struggles just to survive that many go thru in developing nations.

Just found out that my friend that I previously mentioned came during the Mariel boat lift after all. She was 3 years old at the time. Their family was sent to a camp in either Arkansas or Alabama for 3 months (can't remember which state she mentioned).

That reminded me of another Mariel boat lift story. A friend of mine's wife came with her family at the time as well. She was also a child and has 3 sisters. Well the family got to the boat they were going to take to leave Cuba, but then the authorities told the Dad that he couldn't go with them. Just one of the techniques they were using to split families up or maybe to keep strong men in the country or something or other. Well, the Dad stayed behind while the rest of the family boarded the boat to leave. Somehow he found his way on another boat after convincing the authorities that he was gay. Apparently, the authorities were not too fond of gay men and wanted them to leave the country. I have no idea what he had to go through to prove that...but whatever. Once he got to the US it took him some time to find the rest of his family. This was 1980, which predated cell phones and the internet.

[Milizard]

I've been to the real parts of Jamaica (not sheltered in a resort).  I've also been to Poland 3 times.  The first 2, I was young, it was still under the control of the USSR, and my aunt's house didn't have an indoor toilet.  In the stores, shelves were practically empty.  There were ration cards for meat, gas, and probably a number of other things.  I remember that $16 was the equivalent of a month's salary (in the '80s). I also remember seeing a long line outside of a store once, and the half-serious joke was they were lined up to buy toilet paper. The last time I was there was in '95--after the fall of the iron curtain, and the difference was like night and day.  I wouldn't call it 3rd world any longer.  The economic professors at the university called it 2nd world at the time.

[cowstash]

Indeed, I'm living right now in a developing West African country. We don't have Ebola here (yet). It really puts things into perspective about getting by on just enough (which is 80% of the people that live in my city), the 5% who live quite well, and the remaining 15% that it's just heartbreaking to think about their daily lives.

We are fortunate enough to have household help, full time, at the cost of $500 a month (we don't pay any of our housing costs). Even then I feel badly about how hard he works for about $2 an hour. What's worse is I know a lot of the local wealthy residents pay their household staff less than $100 a month for 6 days a week.

[resy]

Indeed, I'm living right now in a developing West African country. We don't have Ebola here (yet). It really puts things into perspective about getting by on just enough (which is 80% of the people that live in my city), the 5% who live quite well, and the remaining 15% that it's just heartbreaking to think about their daily lives.

We are fortunate enough to have household help, full time, at the cost of $500 a month (we don't pay any of our housing costs). Even then I feel badly about how hard he works for about $2 an hour. What's worse is I know a lot of the local wealthy residents pay their household staff less than $100 a month for 6 days a week.

Do you pay him $500 a month because you are being generous or because you are paying him going/normal wages and he just works a lot?
i ask because you say you feel bad for what you pay him...is it possinle to pay him a bit more (.50, $1) or tip him? Che Guevara's father did that with the indigenous workers on his land instead of turning them into slaves and he was very much esteemed for that.