Author Topic: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?  (Read 59753 times)

Another Reader

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #200 on: January 25, 2017, 11:33:20 AM »
"And I also won't contradict you when you say that some white people feel under attack for their race. "

I don't think that's what I said.    I said that many commenters are focusing on "white privilege" and that might be a classic red herring.  I said if they are so upset about inequality, they should do what is in their power to assist people personally that want to join the middle class so things get evened out.  That's permanent change that helps our entire society.

Wait, then what did you mean when you said,
Quote
White middle class men are made to feel like they are the enemy.
???

I am genuinely trying to understand you and not getting it.  Maybe this is because by the time I finish writing a post, there are already 3 or 4 replies in between the post I was answering.

That was not me that said that.  Check the quote.  Might have been KBecks.

That's not to say that it's not correct.  I'm sure some feel that way.  That's just not my point.


golden1

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #201 on: January 25, 2017, 11:45:23 AM »
Right, I meant out of those who voted, sorry.  I am just really tired of the cherry picking.  Like "Trump won way more counties than Hillary!"  Um okay, so what?  More people live in those counties and they voted for her. 

The "white woman" statistic is particularly insulting on a variety of levels. 

Metric Mouse

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #202 on: January 25, 2017, 11:56:46 AM »
Right, I meant out of those who voted, sorry.  I am just really tired of the cherry picking.  Like "Trump won way more counties than Hillary!"  Um okay, so what?  More people live in those counties and they voted for her. 
I suppose the response to that would be "Okay, so what? More electoral districts voted for Trump." 

charis

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #203 on: January 25, 2017, 11:59:08 AM »
  I said if they are so upset about inequality, they should do what is in their power to assist people personally that want to join the middle class so things get evened out.  That's permanent change that helps our entire society.

I would agree with you, that this is a good thing.  I personally spent several years working with public school students and families in the Bronx, although since I moved I'm more involved in my church's work with the homeless and immigrant workers. 

However, the problem with individual acts of charity is that coverage is spotty.  This is why I favor government intervention as well.

Good point.  Why would participating in a protest preclude assisting people and communities in other ways?  Most of the people that I know who attended the protest are very active volunteers or community leaders championing change.  Many of the groups and organizations who attended and sponsored the protest do these things every day.

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #204 on: January 25, 2017, 12:04:54 PM »
Right, I meant out of those who voted, sorry.  I am just really tired of the cherry picking.  Like "Trump won way more counties than Hillary!"  Um okay, so what?  More people live in those counties and they voted for her. 
I suppose the response to that would be "Okay, so what? More electoral districts voted for Trump."

Let's not rehash the "the rights of unoccupied land > the rights of individual people" argument.

Lagom

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #205 on: January 25, 2017, 12:06:13 PM »
  I said if they are so upset about inequality, they should do what is in their power to assist people personally that want to join the middle class so things get evened out.  That's permanent change that helps our entire society.

I would agree with you, that this is a good thing.  I personally spent several years working with public school students and families in the Bronx, although since I moved I'm more involved in my church's work with the homeless and immigrant workers. 

However, the problem with individual acts of charity is that coverage is spotty.  This is why I favor government intervention as well.

Good point.  Why would participating in a protest preclude assisting people and communities in other ways?  Most of the people that I know who attended the protest are very active volunteers or community leaders championing change.  Many of the groups and organizations who attended and sponsored the protest do these things every day.

No! You can only choose one! Besides, people who fail to adhere to false dichotomies challenge too many worldviews to be trusted. They're probably all communists anyway.

Poundwise

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #206 on: January 25, 2017, 12:37:38 PM »
"And I also won't contradict you when you say that some white people feel under attack for their race. "

I don't think that's what I said.    I said that many commenters are focusing on "white privilege" and that might be a classic red herring.  I said if they are so upset about inequality, they should do what is in their power to assist people personally that want to join the middle class so things get evened out.  That's permanent change that helps our entire society.

Wait, then what did you mean when you said,
Quote
White middle class men are made to feel like they are the enemy.
???

I am genuinely trying to understand you and not getting it.  Maybe this is because by the time I finish writing a post, there are already 3 or 4 replies in between the post I was answering.

That was not me that said that.  Check the quote.  Might have been KBecks.

That's not to say that it's not correct.  I'm sure some feel that way.  That's just not my point.

Oh-- sorry!  I'm getting confused with all the different people posting.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #207 on: January 28, 2017, 07:06:30 AM »
For those that still don't understand that poor people are poor AND hard-working....
For those that think if they'd only make better choices they could build up a safety cushion and get ahead in life....

http://www.wnyc.org/press/on-the-media-poverty-series/92816/

Listen to the above podcast.  It's a 5-part series on poverty, and it will explain to you how it is that so many poor people just don't get ahead.  It's really helpful in illuminating a situation that is so totally unlike our own.


marty998

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #208 on: January 28, 2017, 05:17:58 PM »
Quote
Remember, 53 percent of white women voted for him.
   

42% of ALL women who voted voted for him.  Why do only white women count?

FTFY.

Only 57.9% of eligible voters voted. So we're talking a percentage of that.

Meaning the majority of white women did not vote for Trump.

Funny how the principle of a "secret ballot" has been thrown out the window. How are the pundits able to break down the vote into white/black/men/women/rich/poor etc so easily?

Are these accurate voting outcomes or are these stats based on a sample who have been opinion polled or exit polled?

Metric Mouse

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #209 on: January 28, 2017, 08:14:08 PM »

Funny how the principle of a "secret ballot" has been thrown out the window. How are the pundits able to break down the vote into white/black/men/women/rich/poor etc so easily?

Are these accurate voting outcomes or are these stats based on a sample who have been opinion polled or exit polled?

That's.... a really good question. I never wondered that before.

oldtoyota

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #210 on: January 30, 2017, 08:00:38 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

deadlymonkey

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #211 on: January 30, 2017, 09:14:07 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is.  Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.

Gin1984

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #212 on: January 30, 2017, 09:21:56 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is. Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.
Is ignoring a court order also incompetence?

deadlymonkey

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #213 on: January 30, 2017, 09:25:17 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is. Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.
Is ignoring a court order also incompetence?

Possibly, but also a bit sinister.  I think I've posted enough to make my politics clear.  We just need to focus on real issues and not something as stupid as a webpage being missing when it is clearly omitted for incompetence.  If it was up for a while and then disappeared that would be one thing, but the judicial branch page (along with lots of other things) has been missing since the 20th.

former player

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #214 on: January 30, 2017, 09:29:19 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is.  Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.
Trump has a poor record on following the rule of law, and the judges (along with Congress) are pretty much the only people who can put limits on what he does for the next four years.  It's premature to think "all is well" on how Trump will behave towards the judicial branch.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #215 on: January 31, 2017, 07:15:08 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is.  Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.
Remember the outrage when the websites updated right after the inaguration? It was just assumed Trump was wiping all the departments out of existence instead of, you know, just updating the sites like has happened every time.  Never underestimate human incompetence, especially with an administration with as little experience as the Trump admin.

Poundwise

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #216 on: January 31, 2017, 07:32:27 AM »
The WH just removed the judicial branch from its website. Do you see the point of the march yet?

TBH, I think this is more a case of incompetent Trump transition IT folks.  The transition team creates a new White House webpage and it goes live at the moment of inauguration.  Most times, the new team takes most of the resources and just copies them over.  It seems Trump's team was a bit lazy and didn't do much work.  A lot of information is missing or filled with placeholders.  I'm pretty sure that is what this case is.  Not so much sinister stuff, just rank incompetence.
Trump has a poor record on following the rule of law, and the judges (along with Congress) are pretty much the only people who can put limits on what he does for the next four years.  It's premature to think "all is well" on how Trump will behave towards the judicial branch.

Trump's modus operandi has always been to step over the line (manners, morality, legality) and only pull his foot back slowly and reluctantly when punished.  If he can get away with it only part of the time, it's a win to him. 

Opportunistic lawbreaking is a good strategy for stealing the pie, a bad strategy for growing the pie.

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #217 on: January 31, 2017, 02:36:00 PM »
I still don't get all the hub-bub. And it's been a couple of weeks.  I think it's the cool new fad.  Just like going "gluten free" for most folks or buying Toms shoes (you know, because poor kids in Africa could get a free pair because you generously chose to buy yourself a new pair of shoes). It's new, it makes you better than everyone else. You must be smarter or more cutting edge -- you know, because it's the thing to do.

Nobody would dare have marched on Obama lest they be labeled the magic "R" word.

Meanwhile. I'm going to work. Raising my kids. Loving my neighbor -- all that midwestern crap that gets made fun of.

Kris

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #218 on: January 31, 2017, 03:09:34 PM »
I still don't get all the hub-bub. And it's been a couple of weeks.  I think it's the cool new fad.  Just like going "gluten free" for most folks or buying Toms shoes (you know, because poor kids in Africa could get a free pair because you generously chose to buy yourself a new pair of shoes). It's new, it makes you better than everyone else. You must be smarter or more cutting edge -- you know, because it's the thing to do.

Nobody would dare have marched on Obama lest they be labeled the magic "R" word.

Meanwhile. I'm going to work. Raising my kids. Loving my neighbor -- all that midwestern crap that gets made fun of.

Yeah. It's a fad. People couldn't possibly have legitimate reasons for protesting.

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #219 on: February 01, 2017, 05:51:02 AM »
I still don't get all the hub-bub. And it's been a couple of weeks.  I think it's the cool new fad.  Just like going "gluten free" for most folks or buying Toms shoes (you know, because poor kids in Africa could get a free pair because you generously chose to buy yourself a new pair of shoes). It's new, it makes you better than everyone else. You must be smarter or more cutting edge -- you know, because it's the thing to do.

Nobody would dare have marched on Obama lest they be labeled the magic "R" word.

Meanwhile. I'm going to work. Raising my kids. Loving my neighbor -- all that midwestern crap that gets made fun of.

Meanwhile I'm continuing to go to work, raise my kid, attempt to be kind to everyone, try to lower my carbon footprint so my descendants don't end up with crap, volunteer, etc. as well as new actions like protesting and calling my MOCs and state representatives.   I have never been an activist, never protested, but the cabinet picks and the  policies coming out of this administration are repugnant to me as a member of the human race.  And according to his 100 days speech, he hasn't even gotten started, so yeah I'll take 15 minutes out of my day during the week to call/email and make the time to attend town hall meetings and protests.  Cool new fad or awakening of middle class white women?  Only time will tell. 

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #220 on: February 01, 2017, 06:06:11 AM »
I still don't get all the hub-bub. And it's been a couple of weeks.  I think it's the cool new fad.  Just like going "gluten free" for most folks or buying Toms shoes (you know, because poor kids in Africa could get a free pair because you generously chose to buy yourself a new pair of shoes). It's new, it makes you better than everyone else. You must be smarter or more cutting edge -- you know, because it's the thing to do.

Nobody would dare have marched on Obama lest they be labeled the magic "R" word.

Meanwhile. I'm going to work. Raising my kids. Loving my neighbor -- all that midwestern crap that gets made fun of.

That's not true. There are plenty of folks doing what you are doing:


LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #221 on: February 01, 2017, 06:29:25 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #222 on: February 01, 2017, 06:38:46 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

The bolded seems very contradictory. Every person who I know that attended a march did so in support of specific issues. And is also being proactive in terms of contacting their local reps. The right to peacefully assemble is written into our Constitution for a reason. It doesn't matter who gets it. The people marching have specific reasons for doing so and a right to do so. Sometimes talking to these folks and trying to understand their reasons helps as well.

golden1

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #223 on: February 01, 2017, 06:41:52 AM »
Quote
I still don't get all the hub-bub. And it's been a couple of weeks.  I think it's the cool new fad.  Just like going "gluten free" for most folks or buying Toms shoes (you know, because poor kids in Africa could get a free pair because you generously chose to buy yourself a new pair of shoes). It's new, it makes you better than everyone else. You must be smarter or more cutting edge -- you know, because it's the thing to do.

Nobody would dare have marched on Obama lest they be labeled the magic "R" word.

Meanwhile. I'm going to work. Raising my kids. Loving my neighbor -- all that midwestern crap that gets made fun of.

Still patting your back eh?  Your back must be bruised by now.  But please, keep going, it is very revealing. 

LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #224 on: February 01, 2017, 06:44:50 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

The bolded seems very contradictory. Every person who I know that attended a march did so in support of specific issues. And is also being proactive in terms of contacting their local reps. The right to peacefully assemble is written into our Constitution for a reason. It doesn't matter who gets it. The people marching have specific reasons for doing so and a right to do so. Sometimes talking to these folks and trying to understand their reasons helps as well.

There's no contradiction.  I don't get non specific protests where the protesters can't explain what the exact problem is.   "Fuck Donald Trump" is not a coherent statement of position.  I do get protests that are focused on a specific goal.

I in no way said people don't have a right to protest. 

golden1

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #225 on: February 01, 2017, 06:45:48 AM »
For those who say it isn't working:


golden1

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #226 on: February 01, 2017, 06:50:14 AM »
If you haven't noticed, the protests are mostly targeted and specific.  The women's march was less so, and more to demonstrate the vast numbers of people who oppose Trump as a president, but since then, most of the protests are targeted to specific EO.  I haven't actually heard of anyone blocking traffic. 

If you think this is inconvenient, just wait until a general strike happens.  If this crap keeps up, it's a real possibility.  But please, just disregard the protesters and their motives and objectives.  I drink it in like sweet, sweet nectar. 

Kris

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #227 on: February 01, 2017, 06:52:54 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/

People are doing both. And protests are accomplishing things. They are showing those who protest the strength of their numbers. They are also drawing sympathetic people out of the woodwork and convincing them to start acting, as well.

People are less likely to stand up when they think they are alone. That is why the powerful try to mock and denigrate them... to push them back into the shadows. No significan social change in this country was ever accomplished without protest.

So, mock away. You've bought into the discourse that seeks to control you.

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #228 on: February 01, 2017, 07:00:14 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

The bolded seems very contradictory. Every person who I know that attended a march did so in support of specific issues. And is also being proactive in terms of contacting their local reps. The right to peacefully assemble is written into our Constitution for a reason. It doesn't matter who gets it. The people marching have specific reasons for doing so and a right to do so. Sometimes talking to these folks and trying to understand their reasons helps as well.

There's no contradiction.  I don't get non specific protests where the protesters can't explain what the exact problem is.   "Fuck Donald Trump" is not a coherent statement of position.  I do get protests that are focused on a specific goal.

I in no way said people don't have a right to protest.

I say "Fuck Donald Trump" as well. I also have specific reasons. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Again, perhaps speaking to the people personally would help. Rather than just assuming they have no reasons.

LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #229 on: February 01, 2017, 07:06:45 AM »
If you haven't noticed, the protests are mostly targeted and specific.  The women's march was less so, and more to demonstrate the vast numbers of people who oppose Trump as a president, but since then, most of the protests are targeted to specific EO.  I haven't actually heard of anyone blocking traffic. 

If you think this is inconvenient, just wait until a general strike happens.  If this crap keeps up, it's a real possibility.  But please, just disregard the protesters and their motives and objectives.  I drink it in like sweet, sweet nectar.

I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

I would suggest more reasoned and specific responses have affected change more so than blanket statements.  That is all.

At least my local protesters blocked off a bridge one afternoon.  I made arrangements to not be in the area so it wasn't a problem.  It's not the end of the world but there are medical couriers and people like that who need to get places.  I have heard complaints of similar things from social media contacts in other locales.

If there's a general strike, there's a general strike.  I have to go to work regardless.

LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #230 on: February 01, 2017, 07:13:54 AM »
Calling Trump protesters the underdog is strange.  It is the prevailing opinion. I am also not mocking anyone.  If people need to vent let them vent, but the venting itself is not a tool of effective persuasion.  If protesters have specific opinions the coverage they are getting does not convey this and the attention grabbing slogans may get attention but they do not inform.

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #231 on: February 01, 2017, 07:19:26 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy. 

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #232 on: February 01, 2017, 07:21:35 AM »
Calling Trump protesters the underdog is strange.  It is the prevailing opinion. I am also not mocking anyone.  If people need to vent let them vent, but the venting itself is not a tool of effective persuasion.  If protesters have specific opinions the coverage they are getting does not convey this and the attention grabbing slogans may get attention but they do not inform.

I understand the frustration of blocking roadways and such. The overwhelming majority of marches have been peaceful and held in areas so as not to obstruct people's daily lives. Understand this happens though. Heck traffic crawled along for 3 hours when Trump visited my city when it normally would have taken 30 minutes to get home.

I wouldn't rely on the media for informing you of why folks are marching. Again, I can't encourage it enough, You have to talk to people personally. The media has time restrictions. They are there to report not tell a person's life story/struggles. Talk to the people. Listen to them.  Show empathy. Don't just turn on the TV or read a brief article online.

I am not trying to be mean. I certainly won't pretend to understand everyone's struggles. But I try to listen and empathize.

Poundwise

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #233 on: February 01, 2017, 07:22:21 AM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf. 

You have to look at the intended audience.  The audience of the first action is elected officials or readers of the local newspaper-- relatively informed people who may actually care.

The audience of the Shia LaBoeuf-like stunts is people who are not aware of the issue or its significance. I think the hope of attention-seeking "awareness raising" performances is to get people interested enough to find out more.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of times all the pie throwing and cabbage bikinis and  people walking in costume on stilts, make me roll my eyes, and I wonder whether it doesn't attract the wrong type of attention.  But I am not the target demo!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 07:24:07 AM by Poundwise »

LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #234 on: February 01, 2017, 07:30:17 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #235 on: February 01, 2017, 07:51:00 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.

It's not equated. Which is why folks do both. Some folks see no reason to get to know there neighbors and gather with them to establish a sense of community. Marches are somewhat like that in there is a sense of community with folks gathering together, sharing their stories and trying get their voice heard. If everyone just sat at home writing, calling their reps, how would they actually know there are other folks like them, fighting for the same causes?

To me it doesn't make sense NOT to come together. 

Gin1984

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #236 on: February 01, 2017, 08:10:39 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.
You assume that those who protest don't also contact their elected officials.  Additionally, those same elected officials listen and respond better to people who have a large cohort behind them which the protests show. You are not the only democratic, the elected officials are also.

LalsConstant

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #237 on: February 01, 2017, 08:26:55 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.

It's not equated. Which is why folks do both. Some folks see no reason to get to know there neighbors and gather with them to establish a sense of community. Marches are somewhat like that in there is a sense of community with folks gathering together, sharing their stories and trying get their voice heard. If everyone just sat at home writing, calling their reps, how would they actually know there are other folks like them, fighting for the same causes?

To me it doesn't make sense NOT to come together.

But they are being equated, in this very thread no less.

I think the protesters effort is being confused with accomplishments made my other means and the protest is more about a display of loyalty to political subculture.  It does more good for the protesters feelings than the actual issues.

And lest I be mistaken that's valid.  People have the right to do what makes them happy.

Kris

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #238 on: February 01, 2017, 08:27:55 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.


How is it that it is so hard to understand that people are doing both? Literally the assembling people is the first step in getting those people to ACT, and keep acting? 

I'm going to say this again, in a more lengthy manner this time.

To those of you who mock the protests or say you “don’t understand it,” or even imply – or state – that protesters are being silly, or stupid, or that they aren’t accomplishing anything: I have a few thoughts for you.


Protests are accomplishing things. They are showing all of those who protest the strength of their numbers. They are also drawing sympathetic people out of the woodwork and convincing them to start acting, as well. People who have never protested anything in their lives are coming out for these demonstrations. Millions of them. Millions. These people are not just out there for their health, or because people are giving out free T-shirts. They are there for a reason. And don’t be disingenuous. You know what those reasons are. Even if you don’t agree with them. (And if you don't? If you truly have literally no idea what the issues are that are being protested? That's on you to find out. There are plenty of sources out there that are telling you exactly what the issues are, if you care to read them.)


No significant social change in this country was ever accomplished without protest. We all know that, from looking at our history. Regimes don’t want us to protest because they know that. Which is why, every time a movement begins, there’s pushback from the people most interested in maintaining the status quo.


Individual people are less likely to stand up against what they know to be wrong when they think they are alone. That is why protests are important. That’s why the freedom to assemble has been enshrined in our Constitution: because it is so vital, and because it’s one of the first things the powerful try to curtail when they are abusing power. When protests happen, the first step of the powerful is to mock and denigrate the dissenters, to try to sway public opinion to force the people back into the shadows.


So, the powerful want you to mock protests that question the establishment. They want you to help push the dissenters back in the shadows, by insulting and belittling them and their cause. So, mock away. But recognize that in doing so, you've bought into the discourse that seeks to control you.


Consider this:


Instead of saying that you don’t understand “them” – how about you put the focus of your words where it ought to be: on you? Because if you’re against the protests, it’s either because you don’t see anything going on that you feel strongly enough to protest about, or it’s because you actively condone the things you’re seeing our government do. Your lack of understanding or lack of support is just that – yours. You own that. I do not own that. The protesters do not own that. Because trust me, if things were happening that convinced you that you or people you cared about were personally, immediately threatened -- you would be protesting.


(And don’t even start with the “people breaking shit in the streets” crap. There was NO violence at the Women’s March. There was no violence last night in Minneapolis. Just don’t. Do not lump everything together and dismiss it out of hand. Read the Cracked article I posted below, and spend a few minutes thinking about it.)


So, to recap: next time you’re tempted to say, “I don’t understand the protesters/the protests,” or you find yourself opening your mouth to mock them as being whiny or (insert your preferred dismissive adjective here), choose one of these “I” statements instead:


A) I do not care enough about this issue to get involved; or
B) I actively support the things that they are protesting.


http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/



Unique User

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #239 on: February 01, 2017, 08:30:19 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.

We have a president that is obsessed with crowd size and ratings, I think the protests against him, his policies and appointments are just as important as contacting my MOCs with specific arguments and requests for behavior.   

Unique User

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #240 on: February 01, 2017, 08:35:41 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.


How is it that it is so hard to understand that people are doing both? Literally the assembling people is the first step in getting those people to ACT, and keep acting? 

I'm going to say this again, in a more lengthy manner this time.

To those of you who mock the protests or say you “don’t understand it,” or even imply – or state – that protesters are being silly, or stupid, or that they aren’t accomplishing anything: I have a few thoughts for you.


Protests are accomplishing things. They are showing all of those who protest the strength of their numbers. They are also drawing sympathetic people out of the woodwork and convincing them to start acting, as well. People who have never protested anything in their lives are coming out for these demonstrations. Millions of them. Millions. These people are not just out there for their health, or because people are giving out free T-shirts. They are there for a reason. And don’t be disingenuous. You know what those reasons are. Even if you don’t agree with them. (And if you don't? If you truly have literally no idea what the issues are that are being protested? That's on you to find out. There are plenty of sources out there that are telling you exactly what the issues are, if you care to read them.)


No significant social change in this country was ever accomplished without protest. We all know that, from looking at our history. Regimes don’t want us to protest because they know that. Which is why, every time a movement begins, there’s pushback from the people most interested in maintaining the status quo.


Individual people are less likely to stand up against what they know to be wrong when they think they are alone. That is why protests are important. That’s why the freedom to assemble has been enshrined in our Constitution: because it is so vital, and because it’s one of the first things the powerful try to curtail when they are abusing power. When protests happen, the first step of the powerful is to mock and denigrate the dissenters, to try to sway public opinion to force the people back into the shadows.


So, the powerful want you to mock protests that question the establishment. They want you to help push the dissenters back in the shadows, by insulting and belittling them and their cause. So, mock away. But recognize that in doing so, you've bought into the discourse that seeks to control you.


Consider this:


Instead of saying that you don’t understand “them” – how about you put the focus of your words where it ought to be: on you? Because if you’re against the protests, it’s either because you don’t see anything going on that you feel strongly enough to protest about, or it’s because you actively condone the things you’re seeing our government do. Your lack of understanding or lack of support is just that – yours. You own that. I do not own that. The protesters do not own that. Because trust me, if things were happening that convinced you that you or people you cared about were personally, immediately threatened -- you would be protesting.


(And don’t even start with the “people breaking shit in the streets” crap. There was NO violence at the Women’s March. There was no violence last night in Minneapolis. Just don’t. Do not lump everything together and dismiss it out of hand. Read the Cracked article I posted below, and spend a few minutes thinking about it.)


So, to recap: next time you’re tempted to say, “I don’t understand the protesters/the protests,” or you find yourself opening your mouth to mock them as being whiny or (insert your preferred dismissive adjective here), choose one of these “I” statements instead:


A) I do not care enough about this issue to get involved; or
B) I actively support the things that they are protesting.


http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/

THIS.

MasterStache

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #241 on: February 01, 2017, 08:42:17 AM »
Quote
I always hear it as generic protests against Trump, so maybe it's an issue of coverage over simplifying?

Signs like Fuck Trump and Love Conquers Hate don't inform is all I am saying.  When protesters are interviewed and say they're against inequality I am left saying okay, what does that mean specifically?

As usual, the media covers stuff that gets clicks/views.   The vast, vast majority of signs at the protests I have been to were not of this variety.  I try not to judge all conservatives by the examples that are brought up in the media because I assume they found the loudest, most ignorant guy.

Fair enough but I am limited in what information I can realistically have, I honestly cannot meet with protesters.  I learned more about the immigration restrictions from nontraditional media than anywhere else honestly.  All I am saying is a YouTube video or an article or something like that does a lot better job of getting the message out than standing in the street with a colorful sign.

I mean if it makes you feel better great, but I don't get how people equate that with taking the time to communicate with government officials or something else far more effective.


How is it that it is so hard to understand that people are doing both? Literally the assembling people is the first step in getting those people to ACT, and keep acting? 

I'm going to say this again, in a more lengthy manner this time.

To those of you who mock the protests or say you “don’t understand it,” or even imply – or state – that protesters are being silly, or stupid, or that they aren’t accomplishing anything: I have a few thoughts for you.


Protests are accomplishing things. They are showing all of those who protest the strength of their numbers. They are also drawing sympathetic people out of the woodwork and convincing them to start acting, as well. People who have never protested anything in their lives are coming out for these demonstrations. Millions of them. Millions. These people are not just out there for their health, or because people are giving out free T-shirts. They are there for a reason. And don’t be disingenuous. You know what those reasons are. Even if you don’t agree with them. (And if you don't? If you truly have literally no idea what the issues are that are being protested? That's on you to find out. There are plenty of sources out there that are telling you exactly what the issues are, if you care to read them.)


No significant social change in this country was ever accomplished without protest. We all know that, from looking at our history. Regimes don’t want us to protest because they know that. Which is why, every time a movement begins, there’s pushback from the people most interested in maintaining the status quo.


Individual people are less likely to stand up against what they know to be wrong when they think they are alone. That is why protests are important. That’s why the freedom to assemble has been enshrined in our Constitution: because it is so vital, and because it’s one of the first things the powerful try to curtail when they are abusing power. When protests happen, the first step of the powerful is to mock and denigrate the dissenters, to try to sway public opinion to force the people back into the shadows.


So, the powerful want you to mock protests that question the establishment. They want you to help push the dissenters back in the shadows, by insulting and belittling them and their cause. So, mock away. But recognize that in doing so, you've bought into the discourse that seeks to control you.


Consider this:


Instead of saying that you don’t understand “them” – how about you put the focus of your words where it ought to be: on you? Because if you’re against the protests, it’s either because you don’t see anything going on that you feel strongly enough to protest about, or it’s because you actively condone the things you’re seeing our government do. Your lack of understanding or lack of support is just that – yours. You own that. I do not own that. The protesters do not own that. Because trust me, if things were happening that convinced you that you or people you cared about were personally, immediately threatened -- you would be protesting.


(And don’t even start with the “people breaking shit in the streets” crap. There was NO violence at the Women’s March. There was no violence last night in Minneapolis. Just don’t. Do not lump everything together and dismiss it out of hand. Read the Cracked article I posted below, and spend a few minutes thinking about it.)


So, to recap: next time you’re tempted to say, “I don’t understand the protesters/the protests,” or you find yourself opening your mouth to mock them as being whiny or (insert your preferred dismissive adjective here), choose one of these “I” statements instead:


A) I do not care enough about this issue to get involved; or
B) I actively support the things that they are protesting.


http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/

THIS.

THIS +1

Poundwise

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #242 on: February 01, 2017, 09:45:31 AM »
I feel like this thread has become a distraction, so I am going to ignore it from now on when it appears on my list.  There have been plenty of good reasons stated as to why protest, so if people still don't get it they can read on through from the beginning. Time to turn our attention to important things.

BlueHouse

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #243 on: February 01, 2017, 12:37:39 PM »
I don't get it either.  Spending the time researching statistics to prove your point and then sending that information to your representatives, local paper, etc. is more likely to actually shift future course than screaming He Will Not Divide Us with Shia LeBouf.  It's true you can do both but why do the thing that accomplishes nothing practical, and in fact causes some economic damage in some instances due to blocked bridges closed streets vandalism increased need for police etc.?

I get protests before and during elections, and I get protests over specific issues, but any time someone sticks a Mic in their face and asks what it's about they say something incoherent or irrelevant or unprovable.  I have a theory though.

Tribalism dominates American politics.  The mainstream right has its own mechanisms for signalling in group membership and displaying ststus, I think protests are just a mainstream left wing cultural convention and status indicator.  It's not really about an issue it's about emotional catharsis and social rallying for the protesters, and from that perspective it makes sense to me.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-powerful-people-trick-you-into-hating-underdogs/

People are doing both. And protests are accomplishing things. They are showing those who protest the strength of their numbers. They are also drawing sympathetic people out of the woodwork and convincing them to start acting, as well.

People are less likely to stand up when they think they are alone. That is why the powerful try to mock and denigrate them... to push them back into the shadows. No significan social change in this country was ever accomplished without protest.


Well said, Kris. 

ETA:  Just finished the longer version.  That one was great too!  Thank you Kris for stating so eloquently what so many people want to say.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 12:40:59 PM by BlueHouse »

Gondolin

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #244 on: February 01, 2017, 04:10:13 PM »
Quote
If I was wealthy and power hungry I'd spend some chump change to have someone buy a few poor plebs to blend in to peaceful protests to smash and burn shit up for me.  I'm not saying this is always the case, it's just what I'd do.

Beyond this possibility, realize that given a large enough protest there will invariably be a dozen super-cool 17year old Anarcho-nihilists who want to 'burn down the system' because their parents won't let them road trip to Lalapolooza this year.

Will this 0.00001% throw rocks through the windows of a Starbucks?
Yes.

Will alt-right outlets loop the same 4 seconds of footage of a window breaking continuously for 24 hours while calling the protest a 'riot' and laugh at how 'libtards are burning down the country'?
Also, Yes.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 12:43:48 PM by Gondolin »

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #245 on: February 01, 2017, 11:35:23 PM »
Quote
If I was wealthy and power hungry I'd spend some chump change to have someone buy a few poor plebs to blend in to peaceful protests to smash and burn shit up for me.  I'm not saying this is always the case, it's just what I'd do.

Beyond this possibility, realize that given a large enough protest there will invariably be a dozen super-cool 17 year old Anarcho-nilists who want to 'burn down the system' because their parents won't let them road trip to Lalapolooza this year.

Will this 0.00001% throw rocks through the windows of a Starbuck?
Yes.

Will alt-right outlets loop the same 4 seconds of footage of a window breaking continuously for 24 hours while calling the protest a 'riot' and laugh at how 'libtards are burning down the country'?
Also, Yes.

Seemed to happen at Berkley tonight: Violent protests shut down speech at UC Berkley

Lagom

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #246 on: February 01, 2017, 11:59:51 PM »
Quote
If I was wealthy and power hungry I'd spend some chump change to have someone buy a few poor plebs to blend in to peaceful protests to smash and burn shit up for me.  I'm not saying this is always the case, it's just what I'd do.

Beyond this possibility, realize that given a large enough protest there will invariably be a dozen super-cool 17 year old Anarcho-nilists who want to 'burn down the system' because their parents won't let them road trip to Lalapolooza this year.

Will this 0.00001% throw rocks through the windows of a Starbuck?
Yes.

Will alt-right outlets loop the same 4 seconds of footage of a window breaking continuously for 24 hours while calling the protest a 'riot' and laugh at how 'libtards are burning down the country'?
Also, Yes.

Seemed to happen at Berkley tonight: Violent protests shut down speech at UC Berkley

Indeed. Still an isolated data point that in no way invalidates the multiple millions of people that have been protesting peacefully thus far. Also Milo is as contemptible as they come. In the words of a right-leaning libertarian friend of a friend:

"Gah. Did you hear the Klan crying when they had to have their meetings at secret locations? They perfectly understood the natural consequences of their get togethers. One of your supporters tried to assassinate a protester last week, you worthless scumbag. Toughen up and get the fuck walking. You. Are. Not. Welcome."

ETA - context for the "assassination" assertion: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 12:01:43 AM by Lagom »

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #247 on: February 02, 2017, 12:09:35 AM »
Indeed. Still an isolated data point that in no way invalidates the multiple millions of people that have been protesting peacefully thus far. Also Milo is as contemptible as they come. In the words of a right-leaning libertarian friend of a friend:

"Gah. Did you hear the Klan crying when they had to have their meetings at secret locations? They perfectly understood the natural consequences of their get togethers. One of your supporters tried to assassinate a protester last week, you worthless scumbag. Toughen up and get the fuck walking. You. Are. Not. Welcome."

ETA - context for the "assassination" assertion: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
If one has to resort to violence to stop free speech, even unpopular free speech, that side has lost, imo. This would go for all sides of these issues.

Lagom

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #248 on: February 02, 2017, 01:55:29 AM »
Indeed. Still an isolated data point that in no way invalidates the multiple millions of people that have been protesting peacefully thus far. Also Milo is as contemptible as they come. In the words of a right-leaning libertarian friend of a friend:

"Gah. Did you hear the Klan crying when they had to have their meetings at secret locations? They perfectly understood the natural consequences of their get togethers. One of your supporters tried to assassinate a protester last week, you worthless scumbag. Toughen up and get the fuck walking. You. Are. Not. Welcome."

ETA - context for the "assassination" assertion: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
If one has to resort to violence to stop free speech, even unpopular free speech, that side has lost, imo. This would go for all sides of these issues.

If "one" has to resort to violence, that "side" has lost? Sorry, but that is incredibly reductive reasoning.

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Re: Anyone else not "get" the protest/march mentality?
« Reply #249 on: February 02, 2017, 02:18:04 AM »
Indeed. Still an isolated data point that in no way invalidates the multiple millions of people that have been protesting peacefully thus far. Also Milo is as contemptible as they come. In the words of a right-leaning libertarian friend of a friend:

"Gah. Did you hear the Klan crying when they had to have their meetings at secret locations? They perfectly understood the natural consequences of their get togethers. One of your supporters tried to assassinate a protester last week, you worthless scumbag. Toughen up and get the fuck walking. You. Are. Not. Welcome."

ETA - context for the "assassination" assertion: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges
If one has to resort to violence to stop free speech, even unpopular free speech, that side has lost, imo. This would go for all sides of these issues.

If "one" has to resort to violence, that "side" has lost? Sorry, but that is incredibly reductive reasoning.
Yes, the individual who has committed the violence will lose when the law catches up with them, but nothing they did changes the right or wrong of the argument.

 

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