Author Topic: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?  (Read 54950 times)

pachnik

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2015, 08:02:11 PM »
Ninety Four,  I also never saw myself as married or a mother. I never dreamt of the perfect wedding or picked out names for potential future children... yes, sometimes it feels like I was born without some crucial feminine gene...

I have some similarities here.   I never saw myself as a mom or a wife.  I never dreamed of a perfect wedding or wedding dress etc.  In my 20's and 30's I struggled along in really bad relationships. 

In my early 40's I decided I wanted a partner and fortunately, was finally healthy enough to make a good choice and so met my husband.

madgeylou

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2015, 09:12:59 AM »
Ninety Four,  I also never saw myself as married or a mother. I never dreamt of the perfect wedding or picked out names for potential future children... yes, sometimes it feels like I was born without some crucial feminine gene...

It's funny that you say this, because I have heard a LOT of women say something similar. Which means to me that the idea of what "feminine" behavior is isn't encoded in genes at all -- it's a performative process that many of us feel like we don't/aren't able to conform to.

I think it's awesome that so many women no longer connect with these old ideas of what it means to be a woman. Those ideas need to change anyway! So let's change em.

purplepear

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2015, 09:34:35 AM »
Childfree and plan to stay that way. I've never really liked kids or felt the need to have them. This week, I've been hanging out with my boyfriend's family for the holidays and his twin sister has a 4 month old. This has been the most consecutive time that I have spent around an infant, and I feel stronger than ever that I really don't want kids. I just don't feel that maternal instinct or whatever.

I'm only 24, and the pressure is already flowing in from family and friends about marriage and babies. No thanks.

It's nice to read about other's experiences who have chosen this lifestyle. I hope to be the "cool Aunt" someday. :)

vern

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Jon_Snow

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2015, 04:17:49 PM »
Nice one Vern! Almost makes me want to book my vasectomy tomorrow!

Villanelle

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #105 on: January 05, 2015, 07:53:06 AM »
I'm not sure whether I should continue to reply or not but:

1.  I was interested in the topic because I never wanted children and I strongly support this as a choice.
2.  My feelings changed later in life in a manner I would not have predicted at 20.
3.  I posted only in response to the comments on very early sterilization, not on being childfree.
4.  Had I undergone early sterilization it would have been extremely expensive and difficult later.  I quite likely would have regretted it for a period of time and spent money trying to fix it.  I would have ended up happy without children too, but there would have been unnecessary angst and cost and I value the fact that I did not have to go through this.
5.  My comments were never aimed at changing anyone's mind about being and remaining childfree, they were aimed at raising awareness of the possibility of later regret with early sterilization given my experience and the the stats that show this occurs at a statistically significant rate.  My intention was to raise a real life example of the possibility that minds can change when decisions are made at a very young age while recognizing that, for the majority, this will not be the case.  My concern was someone who was like me reading this thread at 20 and feeling encouraged to go ahead with a permanent decision.  I believe this could occur.
6.  Free speech was mentioned as I was told if I was not child-free I should not be here and that only people who wanted sterilization at an early age were really childfree and my former decision not to have children wasn't relevant.  This set up a subsequent debate on that.  Perhaps an attempt to censor would have been more a more accurate description.

To be clear, I support those who are childfree by choice and recognize it is a permanent choice for the majority of those who make the decision, and a vehement preference for many posting here.

If I popped in to a "Let's discuss the great things about parenthood" thread to remind people that they might later regret choosing to have kids, how do you think that would be received?  And would you maybe wonder why the heck I felt the need to post that?  My concern would just be that someone at age 20 might make a permanent choice they might regret, so it would be okay, right?

That's that you've done here.  I have no issues with a parent posting in this thread.  But what you've posted is pretty off-putting.
I actually think that would be a good thing - if it were one respectfully and with a "this has been my experience or my opinion". I would imagine that there are childless people that are on the fence regarding kids who would be reading that thread and it would be eye opening for them to hear some real life stories about people who haven't found having children to be "The Great and All Encompassing Joy" it's often made out to be. They may see that a childfree life can be just as rewarding as a childfilled one.

Posting that there are other choices is a good thing.  Of course.  That's different, to me,  than telling people, in a thread meant for those who have made a choice, that they might regret their choice, and not acknowledging that any choice might later be regretted, thus imply that one choice is more risky or somehow lessor. 

Totoro wasn't posting that s/he didn't have kids and regretted it.  S/he wasn't sharing his experience at having made a choice and regretted it (which is not the same as changing one's mind and doing something different). 

That's why I said I had no issue with parents posting here.  Someone who wants to offer a perspective on what they've experienced is great.  Expressing concern over the choice of others, based on nothing but one's own differing feelings, is what feels off-putting and condescending.  "Oh, I'm so concerned for you that you are going to regret this."

iris lily

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #106 on: January 05, 2015, 08:52:12 AM »
I'm surprised that so many people here have friends and family with children .I have lots of friends and family with no children it's not a big deal.

I suppose part of that is that we have a lot of gay friends. Also people without children tend to congregate in our neighborhood in an urban core where schools are not an issue

MandalayVA

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2015, 09:11:26 AM »
I got married when I was 31 and Mr. Mandalay was 42.  We were fairly sure we wanted kids, but as time went on we always found a reason to put it off, usually financial.  About three years after we were married I saw down and really thought hard about the whole thing.  Why did I want kids?  Because that's what was expected of me?  Because I really, really wanted to be a mother?  And it turned out ... I didn't.  I went to Mr. Mandalay and said "would it really bother you if I told you I don't want kids?"  He was like OH THANK GOD and got snipped the following month.

For the record, I am childfree but Mr. Mandalay is not--he has an adult daughter from a previous marriage, but they have no relationship.

UnleashHell

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #108 on: January 05, 2015, 09:18:10 AM »

Thereís a lot of pros and cons to not having kids. And Even more pros and cons to having them!!

I totally understand and respect those who donít have children. Unless they turn into sanctimonious pricks about being kid free. That I cannot abide. Mind you thereís plenty of  parents who turn into sanctimonious pricks over their precious darlings as well.

And what is it with people who donít have kids but then have a dog as a baby substitute and pamper it like it was a small spoilt child?? That I seriously donít get.

Jon_Snow

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #109 on: January 05, 2015, 09:52:45 AM »
I think we all just have to do what we have to make our short lives AWESOME. For some, that means offspring. For others, like my wife and I, our IDEAL life does not include children of our own.

I shake my head when I see people get riled up on forums when this topic comes up. Perhaps it is based on envy of one group towards the other, I don't know... whatever it is, it disappoints me when I read it.

Adventine

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2015, 11:13:56 AM »


I think we all just have to do what we have to make our short lives AWESOME. For some, that means offspring. For others, like my wife and I, our IDEAL life does not include children of our own.

I shake my head when I see people get riled up on forums when this topic comes up. Perhaps it is based on envy of one group towards the other, I don't know... whatever it is, it disappoints me when I read it.

Agreed. I don't understand why emotions run so high when it comes to having kids.

Do what makes you happy, have the maturity to listen to dissenting opinions, consider if those ideas have value to you  and after, still go right ahead and do what makes you happy. No need for anyone to feel insulted by somebody who has a different viewpoint.

libertarian4321

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2015, 02:29:44 PM »
We have no children by choice.

It's a huge part of the reason we are financially independent.


Jon_Snow

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2015, 02:34:37 PM »
We have no children by choice.

It's a huge part of the reason we are financially independent.

Probably our BIGGEST reason. Started a chain of financial events that helped us FIRE in a ten year whirlwind of saving and investing.

I don't feel any desire to boast about this to any parents who may be struggling with aspects of child rearing...I respect parents big time...just don't want to be one.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 02:38:55 PM by Jon_Snow »

jopiquant

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2015, 03:57:14 PM »

Maybe you're not familiar with the movement, but the ENTIRE PURPOSE of "Childfree", the reason it exists in the first place, is to differentiate us from the "I want kids but can't have them" and "I have no clue what I want" people.

It's really irritating to have people use the term incorrectly. Reminds me of people who are "vegetarian" but eat chicken, fish, and pork (the other white meat) - just represent yourself for what you are. There's a term for what you were, and it's "fence sitter". Not a bad thing, but not childfree.

Married at 23 & 24, people stopped saying we'd change our minds when we were around 30. We didn't (and don't) want kids, and it seems like wanting them sure oughtta be a precondition of having them.

As far as being vegetarian goes - people very often say "you're vegetarian, right?" because they can't remember what I eat. Now instead of saying "I eat poultry and fish," I say "I don't eat four-legged animals." That seems to take hold a little better ;)

NewPerspective

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2015, 04:59:27 PM »
Coming out of lurkdom to say my husband and I are childfree by choice.  We married when I was 27 and he was 32.  I had told him before we married that I didn't think I wanted kids.  He said no problem, he just wanted to be with me (awwww!!!).   I absolutely believe he would have had kids if he had of married someone else.  He would be a great father too. 

Around the time I turned 30 I was really giving it a lot of thought.  Of course everyone around me seemed to be having kids and I wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake.  I read lots of books and did some soul searching, but it just never felt right.  My husband agrees with me.  I am 38 and my husband is 43 now.  We do occasionally talk about it especially as I'm getting older but it would have to be something that I woke up really really wanting and I just don't.

I do sometimes question myself, as I know several families that have great kids and are great parents. I know how much fulfillment the parents get out of parenting.   I think my husband and I would be good parents.  I do wonder what our elderly years might look like but as we know, there is no guarantee that kids would be there for you either. 

By the way, I have a non-hormonal IUD that is good for 10 years. I wouldn't choose sterilization because I'm really uncomfortable with doctors/medical procedures, etc. 

Jon_Snow

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »
My DH and I are child-free and happy with our decision.  I switched from hormonal birth control to an IUD last year.

And what is it with people who donít have kids but then have a dog as a baby substitute and pamper it like it was a small spoilt child?? That I seriously donít get.
This is me.  I don't really care if people "get" it.  I love my dog. 

My dog has her picture taken with Santa every year.  She has a Halloween costume and went trick-or-treating last year.  My schedule revolves around walks and dog parks.  I know there are a lot of things that people would consider crazy, but I find completely normal now.

Good for you...I wouldn't care less what other people thought either.

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2015, 08:26:47 PM »
Well, dogs *are* much nicer than children. :P

deborah

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2015, 09:05:27 PM »
Childless by choice.

My mother still asks me who will look after me in my old age. I look at her. She tells me of friends whose children have stolen their money - one friend was diagnosed with dementia, the child sold the house and used up all the money on a trip to Europe (there must have been other things as the house was worth half a million), and then it was discovered that she didn't have dementia, but she had nowhere to live and no money! Not to mention the parents whose children never learn to be independent, and always expect more money from their parents.

riverffashion

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #118 on: January 07, 2015, 11:59:45 PM »
Yes, I also have never had the desire to have children . It's not too common where I live either & when I meet likeminded individuals, we  to tend to bond over this. Later, when I settle down I would like some kitties to keep me and a SO company though .:)

riverffashion

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #119 on: January 08, 2015, 12:01:03 AM »
great idea for a post by the way. I got the impression most of the folks on here have children

getgoing

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2015, 08:39:12 PM »
On happiness and being childfree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA&feature=youtu.be&t=12m50s. I think I'll find my transcendent moments elsewhere.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:43:49 PM by getgoing »

4alpacas

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2015, 08:55:07 PM »
On happiness and being childfree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQFSc9mHyA&feature=youtu.be&t=12m50s. I think I'll find my transcendent moments elsewhere.
Thank you for sharing!

riverffashion

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #122 on: January 26, 2015, 01:08:09 AM »
This is in response to those to believe a true "child-fee" person must want to be sterilized. No. Not at all. I am 31 and have never had the desire to have kids. I've been married and in other relationships that lasted several years. Neither of us wanted kids. Yet it has never crossed my mind to be sterilized. And I am sexually active.
I also don't think of myself as "child-free" or "childless". I am just me, an individual living life as I choose . And my life is very rich :)

Sibley

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #123 on: February 15, 2015, 04:41:57 PM »
No kids for me. I just want to be the eccentric rich aunt :D

Exactly!
:D

When I was in high school I thought I'd want kids eventually. I think it was because that was what I was supposed to want according to culture. But it never happened and the older I get the less I want to have them. Since I was 18 I always said maybe I'd want to have kids in another 5 years... but not yet. By the time I hit 30 I started to rethink the idea completely since I had no real desire for kids. Then I used to worry I'd eventually regret not having kids when I was older. Now that's no longer a concern. :)

I'm leaning towards this camp. 29, and really thinking I just don't want kids. I like kids, but I really like giving them back to their parents. We'll see, but nothing's made me change my mind yet.

Kris

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #124 on: February 15, 2015, 04:53:38 PM »
Me. 

I wanted children for about five minutes sometime in April, 2007.

I have never regretted the choice not to have kids.

I did, however, marry a man who has two daughters from a previous marriage.  So, hey, bonus, in a way.  I'm training for a triathlon with the older one at the moment.

I thank the fates that I live at a time that has allowed me to make the choices that are right for me.  I occsionally get some judgment from others.  But, you know what? Fuck people who need to pronounce their opinions about my life.

wintersun

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #125 on: February 16, 2015, 10:53:13 AM »
I adore children and I desperately wanted kids but my dh did not.  Now, years later, I feel such relief not to be dealing with all the issues of parenting.  I see friends with adult kids who are draining their bank accounts, who are keeping them awake with worry due to mental illnesses, who are unable to get a job and live at home, etc. etc. etc.

To tell you the truth after years of feeling like I missed out on the greatest joy of my life it is nice to let that belief go and to feel some relief.  I know that the money we have saved would have been decimated if we had had kids (because of our lifestyle until recently) and I know that the personal growth we have experienced would have been put on hold and our addictions would probably be running the house.

I say this not because I think having kids creates all of this for everyone, but because of our own set of issues.  We have been able to spend time parenting ourselves, spend money seeing therapists and focus time on recovering from our childhood traumas to some degree because of not having kids.

Because I do not have teens right now I can devote more time to my elderly relatives without feeling torn and stressed. Once again not because it is a given that one cannot do both well, but because I get overwhelmed and crippled with anxiety very easily.

I would love to have grands, and hope to adopt some soon.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #126 on: February 16, 2015, 01:17:29 PM »
Happily child free, 28 and SO 24. We are on the same page. We want to FIRE in ~12 years an travel the world extensively.

I will be a god father mid April of this year, and maybe my brother will have kids. I am totally fine being a cool uncle or god father but certainly do not want any of my own.

This may change one day, I am not one to say NEVER about anything.

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2015, 05:25:45 PM »
Another "childfree by choice" person here...as is my long term SO. We met in our 20's and neither of us had a desire for children...still feel that way in our 40's. Our decision was not based on financial reasons, just lack of interest in raising children.

daymare

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2015, 10:20:01 AM »
This is such an interesting thread!  I wouldn't classify myself as child-free (though I definitely contemplated this when in HS).  Pretty ambivalent about kids, but my husband wants them, so we've reached the mutual decision to have one (but that's at least 5+ years in the future - with caveat that you can't predict the future).  I think I would have chosen not to have children under different circumstances.  If my husband were to change his mind (which he already has, from wanting to have like 5 kids - that was a declaration that didn't have much thought behind it), I would be amenable to that.  I think I'm less attached to the idea of family being the strongest bond, since I'm an immigrant with nobody but immediate family in this country (as far as family goes), so friends are hugely important to me and definitely more important for day-to-day well-being than family.

Have you guys found that being child-free is distributed equally across sexes?  At my age (25) it seems like most of my female friends have given great though to whether to have kids, philosophically, with some subsequently not as into it, or definitely not wanting any.  On the other hand, most of my male friends are interested in having kids at some point (but maybe that's a function of the cultural default + not giving it much thought?).  Curious what others have observed at various ages.

Kris

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2015, 06:14:52 PM »
Yup, me.  I'm 48, never wanted kids, have never regretted not having them.

Then I met my husband, who has two kids from his first marriage.  So, now I'm a stepmom.  Which has been mostly a good experience, so in a way I get the best of both worlds.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2015, 07:47:39 AM »
Such an interesting thread.  Disclaimer, I have one DD, born when I was 39, after getting married at 22. Just a little gap there. There was a lot of ambivalence, times when I wanted and he didn't, times when he wanted and I didn't, then we looked at our lives and both wanted and went for it.  And retroactively I was so thankful for birth control - without it I would have had 10 children, I get pregnant so easily (only 2 months trying at 38).  There are advantages and disadvantages to having one (I knew we were allowed just one, long before MMM posted).  There are advantages and disadvantages to have them late (I was at least 10 years older than the mothers of my DD's friends).  And there are advantages and disadvantages to never having them. 

There are times I look at people with 3 or more and see how much that choice has affected their lives, and the planet, and wonder about their choice.  But it is their choice.  Some of them have commented on my only - but it was my choice, and she is a capable, social, accomplished adult.  And did we get comments all those Dink years. 

So, bravo to knowing yourselves well enough that you have made the right choice for you!



Dinarik, I think women think about it more because we are the ones doing the pregnancy and the ones more socially expected to make more changes in our lives re childcare.  Not to mention the ticking clock.  Men mostly don't realize that their ages can also affect the baby.

EllieStan

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #131 on: February 26, 2015, 01:43:09 PM »
Childfree by choice and so is my partner. We're 29 and 38. I never pictured myself having kids, although I can admit I occasionally daydream about how cute our children would look like and what an awesome father my partner would be. But it stops there, because it's not real life, and daily life with kids is not the life I want. I gladly embrace being an aunt and I think I'm a good role model for my nieces and nephews. I just don't wish to deal with parenting, but I can get involved another way, by being someone they can rely on or because I live a lifestyle that might inspire them when they get older.

I unfortunately faced harsh criticism a few times in my life because I said I didn't wish to have kids, and strangely enough it was mostly from men (telling me I'm selfish, I'm useless, my life is meaningless, I'm a cold-hearted b*tch, etc). From women, the comments I hear are almost exclusively about my age (you're young, you'll change your mind). Or they commiserate on how they used to say they didn't want kids when they were my age : in other words, they think not wanting kinds = being immature.

Thankfully, I've also discussed with many open-minded people who support our choice and fully accept the fact there are different paths to happiness and that being childfree can be one of them. 

bako_frugal

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #132 on: February 27, 2015, 12:54:41 PM »
Extremely happily child free.

Never wanted any, never will, and will never regret my decision (yes I am old enough to know that).

What I really hate are the comments on "it's such a waste that someone like you (good genes / healthy / smart / redhead) doesn't pass that along".

*grr* ...  (deleted rant)

Trudie

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #133 on: February 27, 2015, 01:14:02 PM »
Child free by choice and largely happy with the decision.

I have nephews I love dearly.  I also enjoy friends' kids when I see them at church, at school, or in social settings.  I would say I get a "kick" out of kids -- like when they say something funny, or when they do something new, or I sometimes find them fascinating to observe to see how their minds work and am in awe of the developing mind.  Kids are fun to josh around with.  But I realize that when I'm in these settings with them I'm mostly seeing the good parts.  But it's nice to go home without them.

But, taking an intellectual fascination in something is quite different from parenting, and I realized that a long time ago.  I'm sure some people think we're nuts, but they've stayed mum on the topic.  We've not been pressured by our families.  As I approach midlife I see how it has made a difference in how much we socialize and who with.  It has made a huge difference in FI.  It has allowed us freedom to travel and pursue things at midlife that others can't.  I think I would have found parenting quite stressful.

Even most of my friends who have kids would say they can't really count on their kids taking care of them in old age.  Some kids are not capable (for whatever reason).  Or they live at a distance.  Some kids are just assholes.  (Some parents are too.)  Things happen and you can't rely on it.

As in all things, what might be my bliss might be another's boredom.  There are times I'm curious (again, kind of the "scientist" mentally) about what any kids my DH and I may have had might have looked like and what their personalities might have been... but I kind of put it up there with the other things you wonder about.  What if I'd married the first guy?  What if I'd moved to a different city?  That sort of thing...  The truth is -- as Cat Stevens once sang, "There are a million ways to be..."

Just don't ever say my husband and I aren't a "family."  That gets under my skin.  Last time I checked we're both children, aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers and cousins... so yes, we are part of a family.

MandalayVA

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #134 on: February 27, 2015, 01:24:52 PM »
Even most of my friends who have kids would say they can't really count on their kids taking care of them in old age.  Some kids are not capable (for whatever reason).  Or they live at a distance.  Some kids are just assholes.  (Some parents are too.)  Things happen and you can't rely on it.

I REALLY hate when someone says to me "but if you don't have kids who's going to take care of you when you get old?"  My usual response is "why don't you go to a nursing home and ask the residents when was the last time they saw their kids?"  My father deliberately moved to Florida to be close to my oldest sister (his favorite) in the certainty that she would take care of him.  He didn't count on her going through a pretty nasty divorce and getting MS.  Hello, nursing home.

MLKnits

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #135 on: February 27, 2015, 01:25:01 PM »
Both of us are genetic-offspring-free, however, we are both interested in fostering older children/teens, ever since we heard some statistic about the number of children in our community who are thrown out of their homes because they are gay/lesbian/trans, or pregnant. That though will need to wait until we are finically comfortable.

Similar here (although single). I don't want kids of my own, but fostering is definitely high on my list of possible post-ER plans, and the huge population of homeless queer kids is an issue very close to my heart.

Also, my work touches on aspects of the foster-care system, and I'd like to contribute to it more directly when I have the freedom to do so.

MLKnits

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #136 on: February 27, 2015, 01:30:49 PM »

I'm not saying they have any sort of obligation to, I'm saying that the nature of being childfree leads a person to WANT sterilization. It's an easy and fast procedure with minimal recovery. Lifelong abstinence is not realistic or desirable for the vast majority of people, though it certainly is a viable alternative.

Heteronormative much, yo? I personally practice the most reliable form of birth control: lesbianism.

GuitarStv

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #137 on: February 27, 2015, 01:56:26 PM »
YMMV.  I tried Lesbianism too.  Now we have a little agent of chaos running around and terrorizing the dog.

MLKnits

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #138 on: February 28, 2015, 05:18:59 AM »
YMMV.  I tried Lesbianism too.  Now we have a little agent of chaos running around and terrorizing the dog.

Ha, okay, not ENTIRELY foolproof ;)

Exhale

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #139 on: February 28, 2015, 11:16:58 PM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

I've worked in childcare/youth services for many years, enjoy young people and respect parents enormously. What I've noticed is that most kids don't have enough non-parent adults in their life. I wish we had a culture/society that gave kids more access to healthy caring adults - it'd be a wonderful for kids (and parents too!).

Like getgoing and MLKnits, I plan use some of my time in FIRE to support foster kids, especially those who are aging out of the system (often long before they're ready to handle full independence). Here in pre-FIRE, I'm an involved auntie for my best friend and my brother - both single parents (one by choice and one a widower).
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 11:18:45 PM by Exhale »

GuitarStv

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #140 on: March 02, 2015, 06:42:03 AM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

Having a kid is pretty phenomenally terrible by any objective measure.  I mean, there are occasional good spots thrown in there now and again, but by and large it's more work, more stress, more sleepless nights, more worry, and takes more money.  The childfree have decided to live a better life.  Naturally, as parents we need to both make ourselves feel that we haven't made a huge mistake.  The easiest way to do this is to attack people who have made a different decision.  They anger us with their worry free faces, their ability to dine out,  their lack of touching another persons poop on a daily basis.  So we call them selfish.  Please, you have so much.  Give us that at least.

arebelspy

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #141 on: March 02, 2015, 08:21:04 AM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

Having a kid is pretty phenomenally terrible by any objective measure.  I mean, there are occasional good spots thrown in there now and again, but by and large it's more work, more stress, more sleepless nights, more worry, and takes more money.  The childfree have decided to live a better life.  Naturally, as parents we need to both make ourselves feel that we haven't made a huge mistake.  The easiest way to do this is to attack people who have made a different decision.  They anger us with their worry free faces, their ability to dine out,  their lack of touching another persons poop on a daily basis.  So we call them selfish.  Please, you have so much.  Give us that at least.

lol
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

MLKnits

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #142 on: March 02, 2015, 08:25:43 AM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

Having a kid is pretty phenomenally terrible by any objective measure.  I mean, there are occasional good spots thrown in there now and again, but by and large it's more work, more stress, more sleepless nights, more worry, and takes more money.  The childfree have decided to live a better life.  Naturally, as parents we need to both make ourselves feel that we haven't made a huge mistake.  The easiest way to do this is to attack people who have made a different decision.  They anger us with their worry free faces, their ability to dine out,  their lack of touching another persons poop on a daily basis.  So we call them selfish.  Please, you have so much.  Give us that at least.

Okay, this is a wonderful answer, and it made me laugh.

Exhale

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #143 on: March 02, 2015, 05:53:19 PM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

Having a kid is pretty phenomenally terrible by any objective measure.  I mean, there are occasional good spots thrown in there now and again, but by and large it's more work, more stress, more sleepless nights, more worry, and takes more money.  The childfree have decided to live a better life.  Naturally, as parents we need to both make ourselves feel that we haven't made a huge mistake.  The easiest way to do this is to attack people who have made a different decision.  They anger us with their worry free faces, their ability to dine out,  their lack of touching another persons poop on a daily basis.  So we call them selfish.  Please, you have so much.  Give us that at least.

Okay, this is a wonderful answer, and it made me laugh.
+1!

Cookie78

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #144 on: March 02, 2015, 06:48:36 PM »
Having a kid is pretty phenomenally terrible by any objective measure.  I mean, there are occasional good spots thrown in there now and again, but by and large it's more work, more stress, more sleepless nights, more worry, and takes more money.  The childfree have decided to live a better life.  Naturally, as parents we need to both make ourselves feel that we haven't made a huge mistake.  The easiest way to do this is to attack people who have made a different decision.  They anger us with their worry free faces, their ability to dine out,  their lack of touching another persons poop on a daily basis.  So we call them selfish.  Please, you have so much.  Give us that at least.
LOL
Now I'm going to remember this and involuntarily laugh out loud any time someone calls me selfish. :p

riverffashion

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #145 on: March 02, 2015, 09:26:25 PM »
Guitarstv - you are awesome! Thanks for this

Milizard

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2015, 01:36:59 PM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

I've worked in childcare/youth services for many years, enjoy young people and respect parents enormously. What I've noticed is that most kids don't have enough non-parent adults in their life. I wish we had a culture/society that gave kids more access to healthy caring adults - it'd be a wonderful for kids (and parents too!).

Like getgoing and MLKnits, I plan use some of my time in FIRE to support foster kids, especially those who are aging out of the system (often long before they're ready to handle full independence). Here in pre-FIRE, I'm an involved auntie for my best friend and my brother - both single parents (one by choice and one a widower).

I'll probably get creamed here in present company for answering, but this sounds like an honest question, so I'll try (despite the previous jokes).  If someone gives a reason for not wanting children that focuses on me me me, then it sounds selfish. Go figure! If someone gives an answer that isn't focused completely on themselves, then IMO, it doesn't seem selfish.

IMO, selfish sounding: 1) I want to have complete freedom to do whatever the hell I want and a kid would interfere.

2)  I don't want to have to support/consider other people.



IMO, not selfish sounding: 1) I have a calling to do x, and a kid would probably interfere, or it wouldn't be fair to the kid.

2) I don't feel capable of properly supporting/considering other people.


MandalayVA

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #147 on: March 03, 2015, 01:41:58 PM »
The thing I'm genuinely curious about is why people consider being childfree as "selfish." I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't see the logic of that comment.

I've worked in childcare/youth services for many years, enjoy young people and respect parents enormously. What I've noticed is that most kids don't have enough non-parent adults in their life. I wish we had a culture/society that gave kids more access to healthy caring adults - it'd be a wonderful for kids (and parents too!).

Like getgoing and MLKnits, I plan use some of my time in FIRE to support foster kids, especially those who are aging out of the system (often long before they're ready to handle full independence). Here in pre-FIRE, I'm an involved auntie for my best friend and my brother - both single parents (one by choice and one a widower).

I'll probably get creamed here in present company for answering, but this sounds like an honest question, so I'll try (despite the previous jokes).  If someone gives a reason for not wanting children that focuses on me me me, then it sounds selfish. Go figure! If someone gives an answer that isn't focused completely on themselves, then IMO, it doesn't seem selfish.

IMO, selfish sounding: 1) I want to have complete freedom to do whatever the hell I want and a kid would interfere.

2)  I don't want to have to support/consider other people.



IMO, not selfish sounding: 1) I have a calling to do x, and a kid would probably interfere, or it wouldn't be fair to the kid.

2) I don't feel capable of properly supporting/considering other people.

On the other hand, it's impossible to justify having a child without using the words "I" or "we."  "I wanted a baby."  "We wanted to start a family."  And everyone thinks that their child is going to be the president or Bill Gates when more often than not they'll be a corporate middle manager looking at spreadsheets all day.

Elliot

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2015, 01:44:31 PM »
I'm not sure I understand why the first two are more selfish than the second. The CF person doesn't owe society a baby. The CF person doesn't owe anything to an unborn (hell, unconceived!) child.

Villanelle

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Re: Any other Childfree by choice people like me?
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2015, 02:08:36 PM »
I think not having kids is no more or less selfish than having them.  People tend to frame not having them as selfish, seemingly because it is a choice about the lifestyle one wants for him/herself.  But of course, having a kid is the same thing.  Most just fail to see that, in a likely attempt to validate their own choice. (Which Guitar touched on in such a great, funny way). 

Either choice can be framed as selfish, or as simply self-aware.  I really can't think of any argument that actually suggests that having them is in any way less selfish that having them.  They are both choices about the best life one imagines for him/herself.  I don't see that as any more selfish than on person deciding they want a dog, another a cat, a third a snake, and a fourth no pet at all.  Or someone wanting a loft condo and someone else wanting a rural farmhouse.   Just lifestyle choices, and generally value neutral.  How you enact those choices might start to have moral values one way or the other, but the choices themselves don't.